| Revision as of 20:45, 11 January 2007 editMoose Boy (talk | contribs)346 editsm →Page discusses conspiracy theories more than Actual Assassination← Previous edit |
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{{WikiProject California}} |
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{{Article history |
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|action1=PR |
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|action1date=02:19, 17 May 2008 |
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|action1link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Robert F. Kennedy assassination/archive1 |
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Moved from article space by ] 22:09, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC): |
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|action2date=01:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC) |
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"This is written off the top of my head, some details may not be exact. Please add details as known. The assanation was completed by the Iranian Savak. The method was a camera that had four small gun barrels hidden within the lens. Sirhan was designated to asail Mr. Kennedy within the confines of the pantry area should Mr. Kennedy choose to exit through there. The confirmation for the hit was the presence of the photographer in the bright yellow sweater. Sirhan began to fire, was overcome as bullets sprayed about, and in doing so provided the diversion that allowed the photographer to close in and fire at point blank range with the gun/lens at the back of Mr. Kennedy's skull. The film will bear out the sequence of events, including the oddly close proximity the yellowed sweatered photographer maintained on Mr. Kennedy's flank. Additional details cannot be made available at this time, safe to say this was a failsafe operation that could have followed many paths to the same result. TT0007" |
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|action3date=19:31, 12 August 2008 |
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|action3link=Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Robert F. Kennedy assassination |
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:Photographer? I thought it was supposed to be Cesar. |
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|action4date = 2022-10-01 |
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:I never have found out how an 8-shot pistol with someone's thumb behind its trigger delivered 11 slugs. |
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|action4link = Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy/archive1 |
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:New book, out, BTW: ISBN 0060580534 It has ]'s endorsement (whoopee) =p ] 17:40, 2005 Jan 18 (UTC) |
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Someone should add that another key support for a second gunman is that the angles of entry for the bullets don't match with Sirhan's direction at all. |
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|currentstatus=FFA |
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---- |
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|maindate=January 16, 2009 |
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There are some disturbing coins under the picture of Kennedy... perhaps they should be removed, but I 'stole' it from ]. ] 22:18, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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|otd1date=5 June 2008|otd1oldid=217257045 |
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:The coins pictured in the article are of the special dollar coin that the US Government produced in honor of RFK in the late 90's. I'll remove them, since they have nothing to do with the RFK assassination itself. Unlike the Kennedy Half, the RFK silver dollar wasn't produced in honor of RFK after his death, they were done as a fund raiser for a charity named after RFK AFAIK. |
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== Other three major assassinations? == |
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:Hope this helps! |
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The introduction notes that RFK was "one of four major assassinations in the United States that occurred during the 1960s." While that sentence links to the entire decade of the 60s, a link that explains what the other three assassinations were (presumably MLK JFK and Malcolm X) would probably be appropriate. ] (]) 21:32, 2 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:PS: The Government stopped minting special silver dollars in the 50's until 1982. |
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:What is meant is in the article, but I wouldn't think that Malcolm X's assassination was more important than those of Medgar Evers and Lincoln Rockwell (who is listed at ] with the two Kennedys, while the others are not), as well as the killings of James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner, all of which are included in the more comprehensive ]. ] (]) 09:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:] 14:24, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC) |
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== nonsense about hypnosis == |
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==Bizarre== |
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''Herbert Spiegel, a Columbia University psychologist, said that Sirhan was probably induced via hypnosis into firing a gun in the direction of Kennedy without knowing what he was doing and without being able to recall either the events or the process of having been programmed. Spiegel suggested that he was in a state of hypnotically-induced amnesia during the time of his arrest as well as afterwards.'' |
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I'm somewhat astonished to see that none of you have picked up the most recent news that George Campbell and David Morales have now been positively identified as being present at the Ambassador Hotel the night RFK was murdered. |
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Why is this fringe conspiracy nonsense included in the article? -- ] (]) 13:39, 20 November 2023 (UTC) |
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This is basically The Smoking Gun. |
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:It's been removed, all that text was written by one editor with an obvious agenda ]] 11:13, 10 July 2024 (UTC) |
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Check the news, slowcoaches!] 17:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC) |
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== Thane Eugene Cesar. Robert F Kennedy Jr.. "Better source needed" == |
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==What is the deal with Muslim?== |
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Why does the fact that Sirhan Sirhan was a Christian not a Muslim have any relevance to whether the PLO was involved? Why are you putting it back? Are you an anti-Muslim who believes that only Muslims can be PLO terrorists? In which case that is very POV and not appropriate for this page.] 18:39, 18 May 2005 (UTC) |
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Currently the article says "Better source needed" concerning ] saying that Thane Eugene Cesar was the shooter that fired the shots that hit and killed his father. |
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The article plainly states that Sirhan could have been acting independently, not at the behest of any larger organization. You are looking for bias where none exists. |
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Here is a Nov 12, 2023 video of Robert Kennedy Jr. going into detail about that: |
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The ] article states that he changed religions several times in his later life, yet this article states that he was a lifelong Roman Catholic. Which is correct? |
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*Youtube: . On . By ]. Date is found by hovering over the number of views. Date pops up. |
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--] (]) 08:36, 7 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2024 == |
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== Another scenario == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy|answered=yes}} |
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Another possible scenario - when Sirhan started shooting, one of the security guards drew his revolver & accidentally shot Kennedy. I believe Sirhan would still be legally guilty of murder if such were the case--] 07:34, 2005 July 17 (UTC) |
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I am requesting that either I or an approved moderator alter the initials present on the first image of the page. It currently reads "Rfk assassination", It would be better, I feel to re-state the article title as: "Assassination of RFK" ] (]) 21:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Don't see the point. It's just the file name for the image, doesn't appear in the article at all ] (]) 21:45, 3 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== A news article about this page! == |
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== We should talk more about the media coverage == |
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say how the media coverage the shooting rfk as it happened ] (]) 02:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC) |
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"''SAN FRANCISCO - Misplaced Pages, the online encyclopedia that allows anyone to contribute articles, is tightening its rules for submitting entries following the disclosure that it ran a piece falsely implicating a man in the Kennedy assassinations. Misplaced Pages will now require users to register before they can create articles, Jimmy Wales, founder of the St. Petersburg, Fla.-based Web site, said Monday.''" |
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Is it true? --] 23:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC) |
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== Some information from the FBI review of the Sirhan Sirhan trial: == |
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All info below taken from the 1977 review by Thomas F. Kranz, Special Counsel to the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office. |
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(from page 3) |
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In an indictment returned by the Grand Jury of Los Angeles County, defendant Sirhan was charged in Count I with the murder of Robert Francis Kennedy in violation of Penal Code Section 187. In Counts II - VI defendant Sirhan was charged with assault with a deadly weapon with intent to commit murder of Paul Schrade, Owen Stroll, William Weisel, Elizabeth Evans, and Ira Goldstein, in violation of Penal Code Section 217. Defendant Sirhan pleaded not guilty. The trial court denied defendant's motion for separate juries on the issue of guilt and the possible issue of penalty was denied. Defendant's motion to quash and set aside the petit jury list was denied, as was his motion to quash the indictment. After a jury trial, defendant was found guilty as charged on all counts, the jury fixing the degree of the offense charged in Count I at murder in the first degree. After further proceedings on the issue of penalty, the jury fixed the punishment on Count I at death. The defendant filed a notice of appeal from the judgment of conviction, and the California Supreme Court modified the judgment to provide a punishment of life imprisonment instead of death for the murder of Senator Kennedy. |
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(from page 5) |
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Earlier in the year, Sirhan had had a conversation with Alvin Clark, a trash collector employed by the City of Pasadena, in which Sirhan had expressed his concern about how the assassination of Martin Luther King would effect "Negro people and how the Negroes would vote in the coming election." Clark testified at trial that he told Sirhan he was going to vote for Senator Kennedy and Sirhan responded by saying, "What do you want to vote for that son-of-a-b for? Because I'm planning on shooting him" Clark then told Sirhan that Senator Kennedy had paid the expenses of bringing Martin Luther King's body back from Tennessee and that "you will be killing one of the best men in the country." Clark remembered that Sirhan stated that Senator Kennedy had done this merely for the publicity involved, and that this conversation had occured in mid-April, 1968. |
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(from page 6) |
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While Sirhan was being held in the pantry awaiting the arrival of the L.A.P.D., Rafter Johnson asked Sirhan repeatedly, "why did you do it?" Sirhan replied, "Let me explain" or "I can explain." At this time Sirhan also remarked in answer to Jess Unruh's question "Why him?", "I did it for my country," and a few seconds later, "It is too late". |
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Sirhan's pockets were emptied and the following items were taken from his possession: an automobile key, two live .22 caliber bullets and an expended bullet, two newspaper clippings (one from the Pasadena Independent Star News dated May 26, 1968, a story by columnist David Lawrence which in part noted noted that in a recent speech Senator Kennedy had "favored aid to Israel with arms if necessary."; the other newspaper clipping, an advertisement from an unidentified newspaper inviting the public "to come and see and hear Senator Robert Kennedy on Sunday, June 2, 1968, at 8:00 p.m., Coconut Grove, Ambassador Hotel, Los Angeles"). Also removed from Sirhan's pockets was $410.66 in cash, including four one hundred dollar bills. No wallet, identification, or information indicating Sirhan's identity was obtained from the examination of Sirhan's person. |
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(from page 9) |
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diary - notebook found on the top of Sirhan's dresser, which Mr. Laurence Sloan, employed in the District Attorney's Office as specialist in handwriting and questioned documents, identified as having been written by Sirhan. These pages read in part as follows: "May 18, 9:45 a.m./68 - My determination to eliminate R.F.K. is becoming more and more of an unshakeable obsession... R.F.K. must die...R.F.K. must be killed...Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated before 5 June 68..." |
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Other quotes taken from these pages were the following: |
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"Ambassador Golberg must die"..."Ambassador Goldberg must be eliminated...Sirhan is and Arab" "Kennedy must fall (underlined), Kennedy must fall...Senator R. Kennedy must be sacrificed for the cause of the poor exploited people..." |
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(from page 10) |
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(taken from glove compartment of Sirhan's car) |
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a wallet containing among other things, current membership card in Sirhan's name in the Ancient Mystical Order of Rosacrucian, as well as other cards identifying Sirhan by name and address |
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Evidence introduced at trial established that at 8:00 a.m. Police Department arrived at the Sirhan residence, having been assigned to security at the rear of the residence to guard the premises from unauthorized persons. At approximately 11:00 a.m., upon discarding a paper cup of coffee into the trash which lay inside several boxes and cans of trash on the Sirhan property, he observed an envelope which bore on its face the return address of the Argonaut Insurance Company. Mr. Laurence Sloan, handwriting specialist of the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office, testified that the writing on the back of the envelope was that of Sirhan. The following words, repeated several times, were written on the reverse side of the envelope, which had been put in evidence by the prosecution: "R.F.K. must be...disposed of properly. Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy must soon die." |
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Other trial evidence introduced was testimony of Mr. and Mrs. John Weidner, the owners of a health food store in Pasadena, who had employed Sirhan as a box boy and delivery boy. The weidners had discussions with Sirhan on the subject of politics in which Sirhan asserted that violence was the only means by which American Negroes would achieve their goals, and that the state of Israel had taken his home, and that the Jewish people were on top and directing the events in America. When Sirhan stated to the Weidners that there was more freedom in Russia and China than America, Mr. Weidner had inquired, "Why don't you go there yourself?" Sirhan replied, "Maybe one day I will go." |
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(from page 11) |
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Sirhan stated at trial that he "read everything about the Arab-Israeli situation that he could lay his hands on," including publications from the Arab information center in the United States and a book on Zionist influence on U.S. policy in the Middle East. |
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One book read by Sirhan, entitled Cyclomancy(underlined), was described by Sirhan as follows: "The basis of what he says is you can do anything with your mind if you know how"..."how you can install a thought in your mind and how you can have it work and becom reality if you want it to." One Rosicrucian article read by Sirhan taught him that if he wrote something down, he would accomplish his goal. Sirhan testified that he had recorded various things in his notebook "with the objective in mind of accomplishing his goals...and in reference to that, the assassination of Robert Kennedy." |
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(from page 12) |
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At trial, Sirhan admitted writing on May 18, 1968, that his "determination to eliminate R.F.K. is becoming more the more of an unshakeable obsession...(and that he could have written this at the time Senator Kennedy had said he would send 50 planes to Israel. |
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During the two weeks prior to the assassination, .... |
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After finishing his several hours of shooting at the gun range, Sirhan had dinner at a Pasadena restaurant and observed a newspaper ad which read, "Join in the miracle mile march, for Israel." Sirhan testified that "this advertisement brought him back to the six days in June of the previous year, and that the fire started burning inside of him as a result of the ad." |
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When Sirhan saw a sign for United States Senator Kuchel's Headquarters, he dropped by and was told that a large party for Senator Kuchel was going on at the Ambassador Hotel. When Sirhan walked toward the hotel, with his gun still in the automobile, he observed a large sign concerning some Jewish organization and Sirhan testified that this "boiled him up again." |
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(from page 13) |
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Out of the presence of the jury, Sirhan screamed to the trial court "I killed Robert Kennedy willfully, premeditatively, with 20 years of malice aforethought." Additionally, Sirhan stated, "I'm willing to fight for (the Arab cause)...I'm willing to die for it." |
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In front of the jury, on re-direct examination, Sirhan explained the circumstances under which he had declared that he had killed Senator Kennedy with malice aforethought. He had stated that at the time, outside the presence of the jury, had informed the court, "I at this time, Sir, withdraw my original plea of not guilty and submit the ple of guilty as charged on all counts. I also request that my counsel disassociate themselves from this case completely." Sirhan stated in front of the jury that he was "boiling" at this time. And when the trial court asked him "alright, and what do you want to do about the penalty," Sirhan had responded, again outside the presence of the jury, "I will offer no defense whatsoever...I will ask to be executed, Sir." The trial court had refused to accept the plea and had ordered the trial to proceed, finding Sirhan incapable of representing himself. Thereafter, Sirhan's mother and Mr. Nakhleh, a Palestinian Arab attorney serving as a defense advisor, had spoken with |
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Sirhan and had given him advice. Sirhan had agreed to proceed with the trial represented by his counsel, once they agreed not to call the two girls as witnesses. |
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(from page 17) (Summary of Trial Evidence) |
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It is clear from the record that there was abundant evidence of premeditation and deliberation of first degree murder. Sirhan had purchased the murder weapon almost six months prior to the assassination that Sirhan was "planning on shooting that son-of-a-bitch Senator Kennedy", and Sirhan's stalking of Kennedy, all reflected by Sirhan's own testimony added substance to this conclusion. Additionally, Sirhan's trip to the shooting range, his visit to the Ambassador Hotel two days prior to the assassination, and his conduct immediately prior to the assassination, including his asking of questions relative to Senator Kennedy's intended route and security protection, including his statements after the assassination that he could "explain" and committed his act "for my country," and his possession on his person of clippings relative to Senator Kennedy and the Senator's favorable position towards Israel, all added to evidence of premeditated murder. Finally, in front of the jury, Sirhan admitted that during a |
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courtroom outburst while the jury was absent, he had stated, "I killed Robert Kennedy willfully, premeditatedly, and with 20 years of malice aforethought." |
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] 13:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC) The article found in Sirhan's pocket revealing Kennedy's preference towards arms sales to Israel was from the Pasadena Independent Star News dated May 26, 1968 but Sirhan was quoted from his diary of May 18th. expressing his desire to kill Kennedy for his arms support for Israel. How did Sirhan know before the press made it public, Kennedy's preference? |
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== Mel Ayton article == |
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i read this article is it a good source to put in there? he cites zero evidence. most of it sounds completely made up. things like this are a dead give away: |
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"The propaganda used by Palestinians had no less an effect on the younger generations of children from the 1940s to the present day. From an early age Sirhan had been taught by educators, family members, and friends that the Jews were "treacherous," "an evil enemy" and it was his "duty" to rid Jews from Palestine. Sirhan's generation was taught to hate, despise, and fear Jews, to believe that it was not only right for every self-respecting Arab to fight the Jewish state and that it was just and desirable to destroy it. Undoubtedly, this milieu of hatred had an intense effect on Sirhan as he grew up." |
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he doesn't cite a source for this. he's making up an opinion about something that happened in 1940. right before that he compares the palestinians to Nazis. more of the same: |
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"Sirhan's irrational hatred and anger towards the Jews did not originate with any mental illness he may have suffered. In fact, his attitude was no different from that of the majority of Palestinians and the rest of the Arab peoples. His ideas were entirely rational within the norms of the Arab world." |
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so here Sirhan's motivation is that all arabs are antisemitic. it's ridiculous. |
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i'm taking that part out. |
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==Page discusses conspiracy theories more than Actual Assassination== |
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This page is in danger of turning into the "Robert F. Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy Theories" page. I'm not against these alternative theories being on the page, as they are thought-inspiring, but they overwhelm the basic function of the page, which is to present the facts about RFK's assassination. The "official" story of the shooting is almost sidelined by all the paragraphs devoted to convincing the reader that the official recorded facts are unreliable. |
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Additionally, almost all the links are to "Alternate Theories" of dubious reliability. |
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Again, I don't mind these theories being on the page, but ought they not to be balanced with more facts from the "official" version? ] 04:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC) |
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For example, more links to eyewitness testimony, and the presented facts of the case, would at least better represent what is claimed to have happened, so that readers can better separate the official story from the conspiracy/"second-man"/Manchurian Candidate assertions. ] 20:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC) |
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The introduction notes that RFK was "one of four major assassinations in the United States that occurred during the 1960s." While that sentence links to the entire decade of the 60s, a link that explains what the other three assassinations were (presumably MLK JFK and Malcolm X) would probably be appropriate. 150.135.165.56 (talk) 21:32, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
Here is a Nov 12, 2023 video of Robert Kennedy Jr. going into detail about that:
I am requesting that either I or an approved moderator alter the initials present on the first image of the page. It currently reads "Rfk assassination", It would be better, I feel to re-state the article title as: "Assassination of RFK" Jonnqy (talk) 21:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
Not done: Don't see the point. It's just the file name for the image, doesn't appear in the article at all Cannolis (talk) 21:45, 3 October 2024 (UTC)