Misplaced Pages

Talk:Caitlyn Jenner: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 23:40, 8 March 2023 editEvergreenFir (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators129,274 edits The misgendering of Jenner in this article is a bad idea: +← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:17, 9 December 2024 edit undoUwsi (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users626 edits former Olympic gold medal-winning decathlete: new sectionTag: New topic 
(43 intermediate revisions by 26 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Skip to talk}} {{Skip to talk}}
{{Talk header}} {{Talk header}}
{{Vital article|level=5|topic=People|subpage=Sports|class=GA}}
{{Controversial}} {{Controversial}}
{{Calm}} {{Calm}}
{{Article history {{Article history
|action1=GAN |action1=GAN
|action1date=7 June 2016 |action1date=7 June 2016
|action1link=/GA1 |action1link=Talk:Caitlyn Jenner/GA1
|action1result=listed |action1result=listed
|action1oldid=724157391 |action1oldid=724157391
Line 14: Line 13:
|topic=media |topic=media
|dykdate=24 June 2016|dykentry= ... that ] ] champion ''']''' ''(pictured)'' was once a '']'' magazine cover model?|dyknom=Template:Did you know nominations/Caitlyn Jenner}} |dykdate=24 June 2016|dykentry= ... that ] ] champion ''']''' ''(pictured)'' was once a '']'' magazine cover model?|dyknom=Template:Did you know nominations/Caitlyn Jenner}}
{{afd-merged-from|Transition of Caitlyn Jenner|Transition of Caitlyn Jenner|18 August 2015}} {{Afd-merged-from|Transition of Caitlyn Jenner|Transition of Caitlyn Jenner|18 August 2015}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|blp=yes|living=yes|activepol=yes|1= {{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|blp=yes|class=GA|vital=yes|listas=Jenner, Caitlyn|1=
{{WikiProject Biography|sports-priority=low|sports-work-group=yes|a&e-work-group=yes|a&e-priority=low|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=Low}}
{{WikiProject Biography
{{WikiProject California|la=yes |la-importance=low |importance=low}}
|living=yes
{{WikiProject College football|importance=bottom}}
|class=GA
{{WikiProject Athletics|importance=mid}}
|sports-priority=low
{{WikiProject New York (state)|importance=Low}}
|sports-work-group=yes
{{WikiProject Olympics|importance=mid}}
|a&e-work-group=yes
{{WikiProject Women's sport|importance=low}}
|a&e-priority=low
|listas=Jenner, Caitlyn
|politician-work-group=yes
|politician-priority=Low
|activepol=yes
}}
{{WikiProject California|la=y |la-importance=low |class=GA |importance=low}}
{{WikiProject College football|class=GA|importance=bottom}}
{{WikiProject Athletics|class=GA|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject New York (state)|class=GA|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Olympics|class=GA|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Women's sport|class=GA |importance=low}}
{{WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors|user=Twofingered Typist|date=4 May, 2016}} {{WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors|user=Twofingered Typist|date=4 May, 2016}}
{{WikiProject LGBT studies|class=GA|person=yes}} {{WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies|person=yes}}
{{WikiProject Women writers |class=GA |importance=Low}} {{WikiProject Women writers|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Dyslexia|class= {{WikiProject Dyslexia}}
{{WikiProject Disability}}
{{Wiki Loves Pride talk|2015|2016}}
}} }}
{{WikiProject Disability|class=
}}
}}
{{Banner holder |collapsed=yes|1=
{{Press|collapsed=yes {{Press|collapsed=yes
|title= Misplaced Pages editors honor Caitlyn Jenner’s identity|date=1 June 2015|url=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/01/wikipedia-editors-honor-caitlyn-jenner-identity/kMBuLrQJYZUZefLBVeVd7H/story.html|org=]|accessdate=2 June 2015 |title= Misplaced Pages editors honor Caitlyn Jenner’s identity|date=1 June 2015|url=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/01/wikipedia-editors-honor-caitlyn-jenner-identity/kMBuLrQJYZUZefLBVeVd7H/story.html|org=]|accessdate=2 June 2015
Line 49: Line 35:
{{Copied |from = Caitlyn Jenner#Gender transition |from_oldid = 675179524 |to = Transition of Caitlyn Jenner |to_diff = https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Caitlyn_Jenner&direction=next&oldid=675043566 |to_oldid = 675043566 |date = 08 August 2015 }} {{Copied |from = Caitlyn Jenner#Gender transition |from_oldid = 675179524 |to = Transition of Caitlyn Jenner |to_diff = https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Caitlyn_Jenner&direction=next&oldid=675043566 |to_oldid = 675043566 |date = 08 August 2015 }}
{{Copied |from= Transition of Caitlyn Jenner|from_oldid=676625533 |to= Caitlyn Jenner|diff= https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Caitlyn_Jenner&type=revision&diff=676626385&oldid=676623936 |to_oldid=676623936}} {{Copied |from= Transition of Caitlyn Jenner|from_oldid=676625533 |to= Caitlyn Jenner|diff= https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Caitlyn_Jenner&type=revision&diff=676626385&oldid=676623936 |to_oldid=676623936}}
{{Banner holder |collapsed=yes|1=



{{Annual report|]|11,170,477}} {{Annual report|]|11,170,477}}
{{Top 25 Report|Feb 1 2015|Feb 8 2015|Apr 19 2015|Apr 26 2015|May 31 2015|Jun 7 2015|Jul 12 2015|until|Jul 26 2015|Nov 17 2019|May 2 2021}} {{Top 25 Report|Feb 1 2015|Feb 8 2015|Apr 19 2015|Apr 26 2015|May 31 2015|Jun 7 2015|Jul 12 2015|until|Jul 26 2015|Nov 17 2019|May 2 2021}}
{{Wiki Loves Pride talk|2015|2016}}
}} }}
{{MOS-TW}} {{MOS-TW}}
{{tmbox|image=]|text= {{tmbox|image=]|text=
{{hidden|Move and Merge History|2= {{hidden|Move and Merge History|2=
{{old moves {{Old moves
|title1=Caitlyn Jenner |title1=Caitlyn Jenner
|title2=Bruce Jenner |title2=Bruce Jenner
Line 70: Line 55:
| algo=old(90d) | algo=old(90d)
| archive=Talk:Caitlyn Jenner/Archive %(counter)d | archive=Talk:Caitlyn Jenner/Archive %(counter)d
| counter=13 | counter=14
| maxarchivesize=75K | maxarchivesize=75K
| archiveheader={{talk archive navigation}} | archiveheader={{talk archive navigation}}
Line 78: Line 63:
{{page views double|days1=365|days2=60}} {{page views double|days1=365|days2=60}}


== Deadnaming == == Pronouns ==

I don’t think her deadname should be mentioned ] (]) 23:13, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


Why are the pronouns feminine? A person cannot changer their sex. There's a reason it's called transgender surgery and not transsexual surgery. ] (]) 01:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
:] covers why we mention the notable deadnames of notable people. Caitlyn Jenner was quite notable under her deadname, and should be mentioned in that capacity. If Caitlyn had not been notable before the transition and name change, we would not mention the deadname. Thanks! ] (]) 21:36, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


:WP:GENDERID, which is linked above, will have your answers. While I'm at, I have to note that a few of your "corrections" gave male pronouns to ]. I have the original sentences below:
== The Dylan Mulvany drama ==
:: '''Please do not edit this; her name at the time of their marriage was Kardashian. If it were listed as Kris Jenner, ''' Caitlyn Jenner may have been a few things, but she was never a Kardashian. ] 06:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
:: ''Jenner has six children with three successive wives{{snds}}Chrystie Crownover, ], and ]{{snds}}and from 2007 to 2021 appeared on the ] series '']'' with Kris, their daughters ] and ], '''as well as Kris's other children from her previous marriage''', ], ], ], and ].'' Kris's children, not Caitlyn's. ] 06:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
:pronouns are an aspect of language not chromosomal sex. if Caitlyn wished to be reffered to by the pronouns 'Squee/Squem' it would have nothing to do with her biology. ] (]) 13:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)


== Car Accident ==
I think you should add what she said about TikTok influencer Dylan mulvany. Dylan was talking about trans girls’ tucking issues, and saying that she doesn’t have to perfectly tuck and be smooth just so she can get respect and not get attacked. Caitlyn was tweeting about Dylan’s video, misgendering Dylan and calling her “he”, and saying that “he is talking about his penis”. Caitlyn Jenner, a trans woman that had most of her transition on a silver platter because she was famous before coming out, is attacking and misgendering a fellow trans girl that was sharing her experience very respectfully on the internet, on her own TikTok account, while also being educational. Please add that to the wiki page. Thank you ] (]) 21:38, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


Seems way too sparse. What were his reactions? Did he (correct pronouns in Feb '15) have nothing to say? Were there no police reports? "Reports differ" carries way too much weight here. Stating he was "involved" is weaseling, did he or did he not bear responsibility for KILLING someone? Has she still remained silent after all these years? Surely this deserves more attention than some one-off appearance on TV.] (]) 19:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:This sounds petty and seems to primarily be an attempt to slander and bully; probably not a good use of space on this Wiki page. ] (]) 00:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


== former Olympic gold medal-winning decathlete ==
== The misgendering of Jenner in this article is a bad idea ==
{{atop|This is an issue with ], not this specific article. Please use ] or the MOS talk page to discuss this. ] ] 23:40, 8 March 2023 (UTC)}}
This article is a good case example of the shortcomings of Misplaced Pages's policy on articles about transgender people, which seems to be to just refer to them as though they actually were the gender they claim a desire to be. I don't know whether these editorial policies are set by Barnes or just coalesce by group consensus, but this one is silly at best and creepy at worst, and it's amazing (and sad) to me to see Misplaced Pages, where accuracy ought to be paramount, continue it.


I have manually reverted this as she's still an Olympic gold medalist. ] (]) 00:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
In the case of someone this high-profile it serves less to confuse the reader (to whom Jenner's likely to already be a known figure) than to simply discredit Misplaced Pages as a truthful source. ] (]) 23:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
{{abot}}

Latest revision as of 00:17, 9 December 2024

Skip to table of contents
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Caitlyn Jenner article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14Auto-archiving period: 3 months 
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
Peace dove with olive branch in its beakPlease stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
Good articleCaitlyn Jenner has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 7, 2016Good article nomineeListed
Did You KnowA fact from this article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 24, 2016.The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that 1976 Summer Olympics decathlon champion Caitlyn Jenner (pictured) was once a Playgirl magazine cover model?
Transition of Caitlyn Jenner was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 18 August 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Caitlyn Jenner. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This  level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
WikiProject iconBiography: Arts and Entertainment / Politics and Government / Sports and Games
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).
WikiProject iconCalifornia: Los Angeles Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by Los Angeles area task force (assessed as Low-importance).
WikiProject iconCollege football Bottom‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college football on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football
BottomThis article has been rated as Bottom-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconAthletics Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Athletics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the sport of athletics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page and join the discussion.AthleticsWikipedia:WikiProject AthleticsTemplate:WikiProject AthleticsAthletics
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconNew York (state) Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Misplaced Pages:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state)
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconOlympics Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Olympics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Olympics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OlympicsWikipedia:WikiProject OlympicsTemplate:WikiProject OlympicsOlympics
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconWomen's sport Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's sport (and women in sports), a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of women in sports on Misplaced Pages. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Women's sportWikipedia:WikiProject Women's sportTemplate:WikiProject Women's sportWomen's sport
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconGuild of Copy Editors
WikiProject iconThis article was copy edited by Twofingered Typist, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 4 May, 2016.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors
WikiProject iconLGBTQ+ studies: Person
WikiProject iconThis article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Misplaced Pages. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the LGBTQ+ Person task force.
WikiProject iconWomen writers Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconDyslexia (inactive)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Dyslexia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.DyslexiaWikipedia:WikiProject DyslexiaTemplate:WikiProject DyslexiaDyslexia
WikiProject iconDisability
WikiProject iconCaitlyn Jenner is within the scope of WikiProject Disability. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.DisabilityWikipedia:WikiProject DisabilityTemplate:WikiProject DisabilityDisability
WikiProject iconWiki Loves Pride
WikiProject iconThis article was created or improved during Wiki Loves Pride, 2015 and 2016.Wiki Loves PrideWikipedia:Wiki Loves PrideTemplate:Wiki Loves Pride talkWiki Loves Pride
Media mentionThis article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Caitlyn Jenner#Gender transition was copied or moved into Transition of Caitlyn Jenner with this edit on 08 August 2015. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Transition of Caitlyn Jenner was copied or moved into Caitlyn Jenner with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
          Other talk page banners
This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2015, when it received 11,170,477 views.
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 11 times. The weeks in which this happened:
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBTQ+ WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard.
Move and Merge History
This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:


Pronouns

Why are the pronouns feminine? A person cannot changer their sex. There's a reason it's called transgender surgery and not transsexual surgery. Countryboy603 (talk) 01:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:GENDERID, which is linked above, will have your answers. While I'm at, I have to note that a few of your "corrections" gave male pronouns to Kris Jenner. I have the original sentences below:
Please do not edit this; her name at the time of their marriage was Kardashian. If it were listed as Kris Jenner, Caitlyn Jenner may have been a few things, but she was never a Kardashian. CRBoyer 06:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
Jenner has six children with three successive wives – Chrystie Crownover, Linda Thompson, and Kris Jenner – and from 2007 to 2021 appeared on the reality television series Keeping Up with the Kardashians with Kris, their daughters Kendall and Kylie Jenner, as well as Kris's other children from her previous marriage, Kourtney, Kim, Khloé, and Rob Kardashian. Kris's children, not Caitlyn's. CRBoyer 06:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
pronouns are an aspect of language not chromosomal sex. if Caitlyn wished to be reffered to by the pronouns 'Squee/Squem' it would have nothing to do with her biology. 2A02:C7C:9B36:7D00:E70A:CC88:9382:E652 (talk) 13:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Car Accident

Seems way too sparse. What were his reactions? Did he (correct pronouns in Feb '15) have nothing to say? Were there no police reports? "Reports differ" carries way too much weight here. Stating he was "involved" is weaseling, did he or did he not bear responsibility for KILLING someone? Has she still remained silent after all these years? Surely this deserves more attention than some one-off appearance on TV.98.17.42.35 (talk) 19:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

former Olympic gold medal-winning decathlete

I have manually reverted this edit as she's still an Olympic gold medalist. Uwsi (talk) 00:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Categories: