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{{Press
|author = Nathan Yau
|title = Decade-Long Battle for “Yogurt” vs. “Yoghurt” on Misplaced Pages
|date = June 26, 2024
|org = ]
|url = https://flowingdata.com/2024/06/26/decade-long-battle-for-yogurt-vs-yoghurt-on-wikipedia/
|lang = <!-- default is English -->
|quote = In 2002, a Misplaced Pages article for yogurt was created. Debates ensued.
|archiveurl = <!-- URL of an archived copy of the page, if the original URL becomes unavailable. -->
|archivedate = <!-- do not wikilink -->
|accessdate = June 26, 2024


|author2 =
|title2 = The Depths of Wikipedians
|date2 = November 1, 2024
|org2 = Asterisk Magazine
|url2 = https://asteriskmag.com/issues/08/the-depths-of-wikipedians
|lang2 = <!-- default is English -->
|quote2 = Take the page for yogurt. The debate over whether to call it “yogurt” or “yoghurt” lasted seven years and totaled over 140,000 words. What happened there specifically, and what makes the process so inefficient in general?
|archiveurl2 = <!-- URL of an archived copy of the page, if the original URL becomes unavailable. -->
|archivedate2 = <!-- do not wikilink -->
|accessdate2 = December 11, 2024
}}


== "Swiss style" yogurt ==
⚫ == Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2021 ==


This appears to be a North American concept. A quick google produces mostly US and Canadian hits. The article should really clarify that this is a regional, not global, term. ] (]) 13:34, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
⚫ {{edit semi-protected|Yogurt|answered=yes}}
Change "When mold forms on yogurt it can not be scraped away like with cheese or other solid foods. The consistency of yogurt allows the mold to penetrate deeply under the surface where it spreads."


:Agreed. I don't see any sources cited for this term. The reference has been in there for 20 years; since the . I will ping that editor, {{ping|Collabi}}, as they are still active. As I was looking for the origin edit I did notice at some point there was a citation to a website now apparently defunct, and also it used to say the term is used in the US. But maybe we should say North America because here's a for it. --] ] 03:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
Omit: "like with cheese or other solid foods." As it is partially misleading since with most solid foods mold penetrates deeper than it appears and can be slightly misleading. ] (]) 12:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <b><sup>]</sup></b> 05:00, 16 July 2021 (UTC)


:::The use of 'Swiss style' and other allusions to Swiss yoghurt packaging was common in the UK in the 1960s (when yoghurt was much less commonly eaten here) and later - see pictures at https://www.skidairy.co.uk/story . It was probably meant to sound all very healthy and pure. As more and more companies started selling yoghurt, this fashion disappeared. But the yoghurt itself had nothing to do with Switzerland. ] (]) 08:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
==Commerce section problem==
::::Are you sure? I just Googled for “yogurt in Switzerland” and found this statement on a : {{Quotation| The Swiss eat a lot of dairy products and yoghurts are no exception. Everyone eats them, and if you peeked into a fridge of a family with teenagers, it would probably be stacked with lots of yoghurts. Swiss yoghurts are stirred instead of strained (set), which results in a creamier consistency. In fact, if you Google stirred yoghurt, it often comes up as Swiss yoghurt. There are only a few exceptions to this in Switzerland; the chocolate, coffee and toffee yoghurts are set ones, all other ones are stirred.}} —] ] 16:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
Section has to be rewritten, and nonsense about only "dead" yogurt allowed to be removed.
::I think Misplaced Pages has misattributed that very old diff. I didn't write the initial revisions of the article (nor that factoid about the swiss style); I just fixed some details about the science. ] (]) 23:58, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
While I think more research is required to find better sourcing before we cite the reference in the article, I think we've established the "swiss" usage exists and is not limited to the US or even to North America. --] ] 18:29, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hmm. I challenge you to find 'Swiss style' yogurt in a British supermarket, though Nestlé still use the old 'Ski' brand, which has vaguely Swiss connotations. I don't think the issue is important enough to make a fuss about though. --] (]) 16:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


== Production - hung sentence ==
Literally from Codex Alimentarius given as the source, page 6 <ref>https://www.fao.org/3/i2085e/i2085e00.pdf</ref>:


Under the "Production" heading, the first paragraph ends with the sentence: "That step is followed by addition of starter culture and standing "
2.1 Fermented Milk is a milk product obtained by fermentation of milk, which milk may have been manufactured from products obtained from milk with or without compositional modifi cation as limited by the provision in Section 3.3, by the action of suitable microorganisms and resulting in reduction of pH with or without coagulation (iso-electric precipitation).
'''''These starter microorganisms shall be viable, active and abundant in the product to the date of minimum durability. If the product is heat treated after fermentation the requirement for viable microorganisms does not apply.'''''
Certain Fermented Milks are characterised by specific starter culture(s) used for fermentation as follows:
Yoghurt: Symbiotic cultures of Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus.
Alternate Culture Yoghurt: Cultures of Streptococcus thermophilus and any Lactobacillus species.
Acidophilus Milk: Lactobacillus acidophilus.
Kefi r: Starter culture prepared from kefir grains, Lactobacillus kefiri, species of the genera Leuconostoc, Lactococcus and Acetobacter growing in a strong specific relationship. Kefir grains constitute both lactose fermenting yeasts (Kluyveromyces marxianus) and non-lactose-fermenting yeasts (Saccharomyces unisporus, Saccharomyces cerevisiae and Saccharomyces exiguus).
Kumys: Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus and Kluyveromyces marxianus.
Other microorganisms than those constituting the specifi c starter culture(s) specified above may be added.
] ] 13:44, 21 February 2022 (UTC)


Now, I'm just a tourist here, and I don't know enough about yogurt to complete the sentence. It's been that way for at least a year I think, looking at the history. I could compare more revisions but again, I'm only a tourist looking for info on how yogurt is made. ] (]) 23:48, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}


== Yogurt vs "curds" ==
== Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2022 ==


It would be nice to have similarities and differences between yogurt and ] (as in curds and whey). Curds are sometimes made by adding rennet, but can also be made by bacterial fermentation of fresh milk. Differences would seem to include more careful control of the bacterial culture and the temperature, but in both pocesses the milk sugar (lactose) is converted to lactic acid, lowering the pH and coagulating the non-whey proteins. ] (]) 17:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected|Yogurt|answered=yes}}
in the Production section, change "typicallyy" to "typically" ] (]) 14:41, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
:{{done}} ]] 14:42, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


⚫ == Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2024 ==
== Update for the out of date tagged end of Nutrition info ==


⚫ {{edit semi-protected|Yogurt|answered=yes}}
A 2021 study that appears well cited compiled a large metastudy of studies involving yogurt's impact on GI and other health, which was compelling, available for free in full through the United States NIH.
The article in History section states: 'Isaac Carasso industrialized the production of yogurt. In 1919, Carasso, who was from Ottoman Salonika', however I suggest to be changed to: "Isaac Carasso industrialized the production of yogurt. In 1919, Carasso, who was from Salonika'. Revised the description of Isaac Carasso's origin. Removed the specific mention of 'Ottoman Salonika' to focus on the geographical location (Salonika/Thessaloniki) without implying historical or cultural influences that are not essential to the context of his yogurt business. The goal is to present factual information pertinent to Carasso's business endeavors without unnecessary historical connotations. ] (]) 20:42, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


{{done}}, although with ] (]) 23:26, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Since this is semi-protected, I'll leave the actual edit up to you all, but some stats:
- 1000+ reviewed, 108 deemed well-run and controlled by independent review
- spanning 1979-2014
- ca. 70% of the studies found a positive/meaningful outcome


== Oxygala is a type of curd and has no direct connection with the origins of yoghurt ==
Hope this helps. One article doesn't make something conclusive obviously, but it'd be nice to update that to 2021 and say something neutral about both sides of the results?


The theory of 'oxygala is the origin of yoghurt' needs to be proven otherwise it distorts the flow of the article. The history section should start with the first written or historically valid arguments. There are many other curd types invented or discovered different parts of the world independently, however these either do not follow the same production steps with yoghurt or there is no information about the process at all. Oxygala mention should be moved to later stages in the article, and should not be the very first part of the history section unless it's clearly validated: "The cuisine of ancient Greece included a dairy product known as oxygala (οξύγαλα) which was a form of yogurt. Galen (AD 129 – c. 200/c. 216) mentioned that oxygala was consumed with honey, similar to the way thickened Greek yogurt is eaten today." ] (]) 09:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Link: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32447398/


:Although I agree with you that the connection between ''oxygala'' and yogurt is not well-established, it is the position taken by multiple ] cited in the article, which is what we have to rely on. If you can find RS which question this connection, we should add those to the article.
NLM Citation: Savaiano DA, Hutkins RW. Yogurt, cultured fermented milk, and health: a systematic review. Nutr Rev. 2021 Apr 7;79(5):599-614. doi: 10.1093/nutrit/nuaa013. PMID: 32447398; PMCID: PMC8579104. ] (]) 13:59, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for the notice. I added content from that review to a new Health research section and to the Lactose intolerance section with ] (]) 20:07, 3 April 2022 (UTC) :As for oxygala being a type of "curd", that word is itself rather ambiguous. It can mean cheese curd or even yogurt. --] (]) 20:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
:Oxygala is probably Teleme. Yogurt is not consumed with honey but teleme is consumed with honey. Teleme is made with the help of figs which is native to the Medditerian sea regions. ] (]) 13:39, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

== Edit-semi protected ==

{{edit semi-protected|Yogurt|answered=yes}}
For the intro, please add the word “paste-like” next to food.] (]) 03:45, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
:] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{tlx|edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 10:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

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See also Talk:Yogurt/yogurtspellinghistory

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
Media mentionThis article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
  • Nathan Yau (June 26, 2024). "Decade-Long Battle for "Yogurt" vs. "Yoghurt" on Misplaced Pages". FlowingData. Retrieved June 26, 2024. In 2002, a Misplaced Pages article for yogurt was created. Debates ensued.
  • "The Depths of Wikipedians". Asterisk Magazine. November 1, 2024. Retrieved December 11, 2024. Take the page for yogurt. The debate over whether to call it "yogurt" or "yoghurt" lasted seven years and totaled over 140,000 words. What happened there specifically, and what makes the process so inefficient in general?

"Swiss style" yogurt

This appears to be a North American concept. A quick google produces mostly US and Canadian hits. The article should really clarify that this is a regional, not global, term. Ef80 (talk) 13:34, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't see any sources cited for this term. The reference has been in there for 20 years; since the 3rd revision. I will ping that editor, @Collabi:, as they are still active. As I was looking for the origin edit I did notice at some point there was a citation to a website now apparently defunct, and also it used to say the term is used in the US. But maybe we should say North America because here's a Canadian citation for it. --В²C ☎ 03:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The use of 'Swiss style' and other allusions to Swiss yoghurt packaging was common in the UK in the 1960s (when yoghurt was much less commonly eaten here) and later - see pictures at https://www.skidairy.co.uk/story . It was probably meant to sound all very healthy and pure. As more and more companies started selling yoghurt, this fashion disappeared. But the yoghurt itself had nothing to do with Switzerland. Sbishop (talk) 08:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
Are you sure? I just Googled for “yogurt in Switzerland” and found this statement on a Swiss website:

The Swiss eat a lot of dairy products and yoghurts are no exception. Everyone eats them, and if you peeked into a fridge of a family with teenagers, it would probably be stacked with lots of yoghurts. Swiss yoghurts are stirred instead of strained (set), which results in a creamier consistency. In fact, if you Google stirred yoghurt, it often comes up as Swiss yoghurt. There are only a few exceptions to this in Switzerland; the chocolate, coffee and toffee yoghurts are set ones, all other ones are stirred.

—В²C ☎ 16:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
I think Misplaced Pages has misattributed that very old diff. I didn't write the initial revisions of the article (nor that factoid about the swiss style); I just fixed some details about the science. Collabi (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

While I think more research is required to find better sourcing before we cite the reference in the article, I think we've established the "swiss" usage exists and is not limited to the US or even to North America. --В²C ☎ 18:29, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Hmm. I challenge you to find 'Swiss style' yogurt in a British supermarket, though Nestlé still use the old 'Ski' brand, which has vaguely Swiss connotations. I don't think the issue is important enough to make a fuss about though. --Ef80 (talk) 16:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Production - hung sentence

Under the "Production" heading, the first paragraph ends with the sentence: "That step is followed by addition of starter culture and standing "

Now, I'm just a tourist here, and I don't know enough about yogurt to complete the sentence. It's been that way for at least a year I think, looking at the history. I could compare more revisions but again, I'm only a tourist looking for info on how yogurt is made. Anafyral (talk) 23:48, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Yogurt vs "curds"

It would be nice to have similarities and differences between yogurt and curds (as in curds and whey). Curds are sometimes made by adding rennet, but can also be made by bacterial fermentation of fresh milk. Differences would seem to include more careful control of the bacterial culture and the temperature, but in both pocesses the milk sugar (lactose) is converted to lactic acid, lowering the pH and coagulating the non-whey proteins. Eaberry (talk) 17:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The article in History section states: 'Isaac Carasso industrialized the production of yogurt. In 1919, Carasso, who was from Ottoman Salonika', however I suggest to be changed to: "Isaac Carasso industrialized the production of yogurt. In 1919, Carasso, who was from Salonika'. Revised the description of Isaac Carasso's origin. Removed the specific mention of 'Ottoman Salonika' to focus on the geographical location (Salonika/Thessaloniki) without implying historical or cultural influences that are not essential to the context of his yogurt business. The goal is to present factual information pertinent to Carasso's business endeavors without unnecessary historical connotations. Neuron1989 (talk) 20:42, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done, although with further editing and a source. Zefr (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Oxygala is a type of curd and has no direct connection with the origins of yoghurt

The theory of 'oxygala is the origin of yoghurt' needs to be proven otherwise it distorts the flow of the article. The history section should start with the first written or historically valid arguments. There are many other curd types invented or discovered different parts of the world independently, however these either do not follow the same production steps with yoghurt or there is no information about the process at all. Oxygala mention should be moved to later stages in the article, and should not be the very first part of the history section unless it's clearly validated: "The cuisine of ancient Greece included a dairy product known as oxygala (οξύγαλα) which was a form of yogurt. Galen (AD 129 – c. 200/c. 216) mentioned that oxygala was consumed with honey, similar to the way thickened Greek yogurt is eaten today." 50kalibre (talk) 09:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Although I agree with you that the connection between oxygala and yogurt is not well-established, it is the position taken by multiple reliable sources cited in the article, which is what we have to rely on. If you can find RS which question this connection, we should add those to the article.
As for oxygala being a type of "curd", that word is itself rather ambiguous. It can mean cheese curd or even yogurt. --Macrakis (talk) 20:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Oxygala is probably Teleme. Yogurt is not consumed with honey but teleme is consumed with honey. Teleme is made with the help of figs which is native to the Medditerian sea regions. 84.40.106.211 (talk) 13:39, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
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