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{{Talk header|archive_age=60|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|1= |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Copernicus, Nicolaus|1= |
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{{WikiProject Astronomy|importance=top}} |
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{{Vital article|level=3|link=Misplaced Pages:Vital articles|anchor=Inventors and scientists (20 articles)|topic=People|class=B}} |
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{{WikiProject Biography|core=yes|s&a-work-group=yes|s&a-priority=Top|a&e-work-group=yes|a&e-priority=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Astronomy|class=B|importance=top}} |
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{{WikiProject Christianity|importance=Top|lutheranism=yes|lutheranism-importance=Low|catholicism=yes|catholicism-importance=Low|anglicanism=yes|anglicanism-importance=Mid|saints=yes|saints-importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=B|core=yes|s&a-work-group=yes|s&a-priority=Top|listas=Copernicus, Nicolaus|a&e-work-group=yes|a&e-priority=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Economics|importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Christianity|class=B|importance=Top|lutheranism=yes|lutheranism-importance=Low|catholicism=yes|catholicism-importance=Low|anglicanism=yes|anglicanism-importance=Mid|saints=yes|saints-importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Economics|class=B|importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Former countries|Prussia=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Former countries|Prussia=yes|class=B}} |
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{{WikiProject History of Science|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Philosophy|importance=Mid|philosopher=yes|medieval=yes|science=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Philosophy|class=B|importance=Mid|philosopher=yes|medieval=yes|science=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Physics|importance=High|bio=yes|hist=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Physics|class=B|importance=High|bio=yes|hist=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Poland|importance = Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Poland |
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{{WikiProject Religion|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Religion|class=B|importance=Top}} |
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|otd1date=2017-02-19|otd1oldid=766142791 |
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|otd2date=2021-02-19|otd2oldid=1007712261 |
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|otd3date=2024-02-19|otd3oldid=1208939002 |
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{{Top 25 Report|February 17, 2013}} |
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{{Top 25 Report|February 17, 2013}} |
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The same information is also provided by {{cite journal|first1=David Eugene|last1=Smith|author-link1=David Eugene Smith|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927718/?page=5|title=Medicine and Mathematics in the Sixteenth Century|PMC=7927718|PMID= 33943138|journal=Ann Med Hist.|date=July 1, 1917|volume= 1|issue=2|pages=125–140|format=PDF|OCLC=12650954|access-date=July 15, 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210515201754/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927718/pdf/annmedhist148575-0021.pdf|archive-date=May 15, 2021|url-status=live}} (here cited p. 129). This book dates back to 1917 and is also an alternative source about the Copernicus' masters of mathematics and astronomy: Peuerbach, Regiomontanus, Domenico Maria, and Brudzewski. All of them are actually sourced by a unique monography (Dobrzycki and Hajdukiewicz (1969)). Regards, Theologian81sp |
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The same information is also provided by {{cite journal|first1=David Eugene|last1=Smith|author-link1=David Eugene Smith|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927718/?page=5|title=Medicine and Mathematics in the Sixteenth Century|PMC=7927718|PMID= 33943138|journal=Ann Med Hist.|date=July 1, 1917|volume= 1|issue=2|pages=125–140|format=PDF|OCLC=12650954|access-date=July 15, 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210515201754/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927718/pdf/annmedhist148575-0021.pdf|archive-date=May 15, 2021|url-status=live}} (here cited p. 129). This book dates back to 1917 and is also an alternative source about the Copernicus' masters of mathematics and astronomy: Peuerbach, Regiomontanus, Domenico Maria, and Brudzewski. All of them are actually sourced by a unique monography (Dobrzycki and Hajdukiewicz (1969)). Regards, Theologian81sp |
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== In the "Theology" section, the information differs from its source. == |
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In the "'''Theology'''" section, early on, there are a number of quotes to a controversy with Calvin. This controversy is supported by sources 112 and 113 (https://www.jstor.org/stable/2708147). It turns out that such a source explains that the aforementioned quotes from Calvin are not actually found in the writings of that author, but in the words of Bertrand Russel who, in turn, makes no mention of a source. It should be noted that this ''source'' is ], an expert in Copernicus. |
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Furthermore, such quotations attributed to Calvin against Copernicus are now recognized as non-existent. Russell probably obtained the "citations" via ] and his "]", where they first appear. The Misplaced Pages article on White's book itself exposes the situation. |
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Finally, I myself possess all of Calvin's commentaries, including those of Genesis and Psalms, cited in this article (about Copernicus) and I can state that there is no similar quote. In fact, there is no citation to Copernicus' name in Calvin's work, either positive or negative. |
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Therefore, it would be fair to '''completely remove the references to Calvin''', because: |
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1) they are unlikely (Calvin simply does not address the issue raised by Copernicus anywhere); |
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2) refers to indirect citations that do not cite sources; |
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3) misuses the source, as the author is denouncing the fact that the quote to Calvin does not refer to the original source. |
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The text would then look like this (first paragraph of "Theology"): |
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"'''Tolosani may have criticized the Copernican theory as scientifically unproven and unfounded, but the theory also conflicted with the theology of the time. One sharp point of conflict''' " |
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'''An alternative would be to amend the text,''' explaining that this was an idea popularized by White (and then Russell), but that it does not match reality, citing the same sources that exist in the articles about White and his book. |
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] (]) 17:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC) |
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<!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:You are mistaken about the quotations of Calvin. There are two such quotations given in the ''Theology'' section of the article. Rosen, in the article of his that you cite, attributes ''both of them directly'' to Calvin (on pages 437 and 438), citing a 1948 re-issue of John King's translation of Calvin's ''Commentaries on the Book of Genesis'' () for the first, and a 1949 re-issue of James Anderson's translation of Calvin's ''Commentaries on the Book of Psalms'' () for the second. It's true, as Rosen documents, that anti-Copernican statements which Calvin never made have been misattributed to him, but these two quotations are not among them. The reasons you offer for completely removing the references to Calvin therefore don't stand up to scrutiny. However, I believe the truth of your parenthetical comment, "Calvin simply does not address the issue raised by Copernicus", is sufficient, just by itself, to justify the removal. |
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:] (]) 17:33, 3 August 2022 (UTC) |
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:ya ] (]) 00:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== someone please correct small grammar issue == |
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Near the beginning of the article it says that he was active as a mathematician, an astronomer, and Catholic canon. That's ungrammatical. Someone please correct it, e.g., to: active in mathematics, astronomy, and Cathologic canon. (I don't have an account, and don't want one, so I cannot correct it myself.) ] (]) 13:58, 18 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:I fail to see the grammatical error. On the other hand, the existing statement says that he acted in different professions, not just doing a bit of math, astronomy and especially canon. So as a non-native speaker I cannot judge whether the existing sentence is grammatically wrong, but I know that your version does not carry the meaning that is supposed to be there. Just to explain why I will not follow your request. ] (]) 14:28, 25 July 2022 (UTC) |
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::how do you know ] (]) 00:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== 550th birthday == |
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is today 19th February 2023. The , organised to mark the 550th anniversary of the birth of Nicolaus Copernicus, will begin on February 19th with at NCU Nicolaus Copernicus University in Toruń, later in other cities. The twitter account of "The Chancellery of the Prime Minister or Poland" (] since 2017) "„Stopped the Sun, moved the Earth”. #OTD we celebrate 550th anniversary of the birth of Nicolaus #Copernicus, the Polish Renaissance man who presented the first, since Ancient Greece, heliocentric model of the Solar System. Copernicus is the parton of 2023." ] (]) 14:20, 19 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2023 == |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Nicolaus Copernicus|answered=yes}} |
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Grammatical corrections? ] (]) 22:32, 18 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:I'd be happy to make any corrections - feel free to list the changes you'd like to make here and they will be made on your behalf. ] (]) 23:04, 18 May 2023 (UTC) |
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== A monumental scandal == |
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== A monumental scandal == |
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:True, but both sides have valid arguments, it's best to leave nationality out of this ] (]) 19:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:True, but both sides have valid arguments, it's best to leave nationality out of this ] (]) 19:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC) |
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::No they don't it's not even a discussion. He was quite obviously ethnically German but wikipedia is leftist political propaganda at it's finest. This site truly has become a disgrace. ] (]) 11:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC) |
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::No they don't it's not even a discussion. He was quite obviously ethnically German but wikipedia is leftist political propaganda at it's finest. This site truly has become a disgrace. ] (]) 11:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC) |
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:::I would say Misplaced Pages is Western-centered and racist towards Eastern and Central Europeans with figures such as Copernicus or Sklodowska-Curie being Westernized in articles (which itself on the main webpage with news and trivia mentions in 90% only West-related things and takes Western perspective. Ergo, it's not international but English/West-centered. |
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:::Now not mentioning Copernicus nationality because it's not relevant is fairly silly concerning the fact that somehow other figures of that time like let's say Durer or Caravaggio magically have some nationality. ] (]) 20:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:The current article represents a hard-earned consensus, after monumental disruption by editors who aggressively espoused competing assertions of nationality. Please don't start that again. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 19:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:The current article represents a hard-earned consensus, after monumental disruption by editors who aggressively espoused competing assertions of nationality. Please don't start that again. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 19:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:::If in doubt, use the regulations of the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. See the intro of this article. ] (]) 06:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:::If in doubt, use the regulations of the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. See the intro of this article. ] (]) 06:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC) |
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== Silesian roots == |
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== Why does this article have a section named Controversy? == |
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"His father was a merchant from Kraków (Krakau) and his mother was the daughter of a wealthy Toruń merchant.[13" |
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But: the father´s side of Upper Silesian and the mother´s side od Lower Silesian origin. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:11, 26 December 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br> |
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Why (Krakau)?] (]) 23:45, 12 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2024 == |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Nicolaus Copernicus|answered=yes}} |
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In the "Commemoration" section of the article, in the subsection titled "Poland", in the second paragraph change the " in Poland's third largest city, Łódź." to " in Poland's fourth largest city, Łódź." |
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In the article the city of Łódź is called Poland's third largest city. In the data provided in the (data from 20th July 2023), the population of Łódź city has dropped and currently city of Wrocław has surpassed Łódź in the number of population. ] (]) 10:59, 28 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> This is also verified and cited on the ] page. ] (]) 18:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2024 == |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Nicolaus Copernicus|answered=yes}} |
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in the Work section, "till" is used in "(or perhaps till his uncle's death on 29 March 1512)" and i believe this should be changed to until ] (]) 16:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 17:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-protected status? == |
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I propose that this article be given extended-protected status. It is experiencing an onslaught of neo-nazis. ] (]) 17:44, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Successors == |
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The article's "]" section states that "Scholars hold that sixty years after the publication of ''The Revolutions'' there were only around 15 astronomers espousing Copernicanism in all of Europe..." |
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That implies that all the 15 listed would have survived to the year 1603. |
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I think the subsection labeled Controversy, is unclear. Take ], ], ], ]. All these scientists had controversies during their lives. They don't have a dedicated section for those. This has a peculiar feel to it. It should be labeled Controversies during lifetime, or smth similar. There's no controversy about geocentrism. ] (]) 10:46, 26 July 2023 (UTC) |
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At least two of them died before then: ] (1550) and ] (1574). |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2023 == |
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] (]) 04:24, 7 September 2024 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Nicolaus Copernicus|answered=yes}} |
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In "Predecessors", the blue link On the revolutions sends the user to De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (1543). It is the wrong book. On the revolutions is the translation of De revolutionibus coelestium which is signed and sent to the Pope in 1536 (7 years before De revolutionibus orbium coelestium) ] (]) 16:50, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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== Nationality == |
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:Nevermind, I just realized my mistake. My bad, have a great day ] (]) 16:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Should we assume Copernicus' nationality can be ]? ] (]) 23:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Fathers name == |
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:Do you have NEW evidence that goes beyond those that have been debated here for a decade or two? |
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"The father, Mikołaj the Elder, likely the son of Jan, came from the Kraków line" was Mikołaj really the name of his father, it was more likely Nicolaus or Nikolaus or Niklas? ] (]) 20:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:If not, leave it as it is. |
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:See my above comment that starts with "We have been through this". ] (]) 22:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
The current WP article refers of his son Andreas in the role of Augustianin canon of the Cathedral of Frauenburg. But the same charge took to Nicolaus, in 1497, when he was in Italy yet (source: Holmes Charles Nevers, Popular Astronomy, Vol. 24, p. 219, in SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)).
An enormous bulk of evidence about Copernicus having been ethnically German and of Polonising German topography has been "archived". The present article carefully avoids the terms German or Polish for the ethnicity of the man because the evidence is clear that he was German - with a German father and a German mother, who will have taught him the German and not the Polish language. And the article Polonises all place names in Prussia that got Polish names only in the 20th century, but misses out on Danzig. - A monumental scandal and a disgusting disgrace. 2001:9E8:25F:FD00:E9AB:E4CF:D944:B901 (talk) 23:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
In the "Commemoration" section of the article, in the subsection titled "Poland", in the second paragraph change the " in Poland's third largest city, Łódź." to " in Poland's fourth largest city, Łódź."
In the article the city of Łódź is called Poland's third largest city. In the data provided in the Polish Misplaced Pages (data from 20th July 2023), the population of Łódź city has dropped and currently city of Wrocław has surpassed Łódź in the number of population. BlueBlack22 (talk) 10:59, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
in the Work section, "till" is used in "(or perhaps till his uncle's death on 29 March 1512)" and i believe this should be changed to until Maddybac (talk) 16:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I propose that this article be given extended-protected status. It is experiencing an onslaught of neo-nazis. Meellk (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
That implies that all the 15 listed would have survived to the year 1603.