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== Canvassing ==
== Wikiproject Israel Template ==


It looks like there was (has been?) a large scale canvassing operation targeting Israel-related topics on Misplaced Pages, see . The first part of the article is not very convincing in my opinion but coordinating edits on Discord seems like a clear violation of the policy. ]<sub>]</sub> 19:30, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
I am apparently not good at the template images thing. Could someone please link the image to an actual image of the flag of Israel. {{unsigned|Eric1985}}


:It looks like they mention two different groups, the first they don't seem to name, the second being Tech for Palestine. It seems like most of Tech for Palestine's activities are transparent, including some past on-wiki coordination (see ]), but more concerningly, there's also coordination on a now-private Discord channel. It seems most evidence was deleted, though there are a few screenshots like in . {{yo|BilledMammal}} might have more information. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 20:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
:Fixed. This template should be added only to talk pages and not to articles themselves. Also please ] your posts at talk pages and fill out ]. Thanks. ←] <sup>]</sup> 10:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
==Hi all==
I'm in. Ask me for anything about the Chareidi world. Bnei Brak, Jerusalem etc. --] | <small>'']''</small> 13:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


::This isn't a forum, if there is evidence of something sanctionable, do the necessary. ] (]) 21:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
== Suggestion ==
::{{yo|Amayorov|Sean.hoyland}} just cc'ing you based on your related ]. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 21:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
::See also — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 22:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
::I agree the Tech for Palestine's channel for Misplaced Pages editing has a high likelihood of constituting improper canvassing. However, the issue would be stale if the channel is inactive. I have asked on the Discord server the status of their Misplaced Pages activities. ] <i><sup style="display:inline-flex;rotate:7deg;">]</sup></i> 14:01, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
:::They say they discontinued their Misplaced Pages editing channel due to doxxing. I believe the issue to be now stale. ] <i><sup style="display:inline-flex;rotate:7deg;">]</sup></i> 12:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
<-Yes, I already read it. I learned that I am one of the top 30 members of this powerful group of pro-Hamas editors hijacking Misplaced Pages. So, I already know the author is either a bit dopey, dishonest or both.
* There is, no doubt, plenty of offsite coordination going on and there has been for years. We already know the use of deception and canvassing is relatively common among Israel supporters here of course, has been for well over a decade, and is seen as justified from an in-world perspective, so it wouldn't be surprising at all if these kinds of activities existed with the opposite valence.
* My view is that little to nothing can be done about it because it is not currently possible to prevent off-site coordination or any determined individual from editing in the topic area due to various technical and wiki-cultural constraints. For example, I believe that one of the people banned in the ] is currently active in the topic area, and Misplaced Pages's rather unserious approach to ban evasion, or the ranking of privacy over honesty, means that it can't be addressed. That's okay. Nobody died.
* Given the technical/cultural limits that can't be changed it seems, I would rather there was an emphasis on enforcing compliance with the Wikimedia Universal Code of Conduct's position that unacceptable behavior includes "systematically manipulating content to favour specific interpretations of facts or points of view" i.e. biased editing/activism. The normalization of biased editing/advocacy means that you naturally produce conjugate sets of editors with opposite valence forming something like an autocatalytic set or a self-sustaining fire. But again, anyone blocked for biased editing/advocacy/coordination/canvassing etc. can easily return with a new account and quickly become extended confirmed using numerous tools that Misplaced Pages provides to new users to get them started.
* On the article itself, it is hard for me to take it seriously as these kinds of conspiratorial, casually defamatory, attack pieces camouflaged as rational analyses remind me so much of antisemitic conspiracy theories and conversations I've had with street people over the years, including a man who believed he was John the Baptist. The primarily utility of these kinds of attack articles and low-quality media reporting about on-wiki-things for me personally, as someone interested in the dynamics of the topic area, is that they are a useful reminder of the Gell-Mann amnesia effect and they help to identify actors with an elevated susceptibility to misinformation and manipulation and/or a willingness to generate or inject disinformation into Misplaced Pages's systems either directly or by employing external vectors. ] (]) 03:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)


:Thanks for your response. Indeed a lot of the article seems like guesswork, maybe poor guesswork. Just wondering if anyone had dug into this further to determine what actual evidence exists.
I suggest we use this page for project-related discussions. For general ones, there is ] that many users already have in their watchlist. ←] <sup>]</sup> 00:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
:To the extent that their is evidence of stealth canvassing, I think it should be acted on regardless of the editor's ideology. Certainly ban enforcement has its challenges, but that doesn't seem like enough reason to ignore rulebreaking. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 05:08, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
==Tiamut (Membership rules)==
::I'm also wondering if anyone has managed to have a detailed look at the Tech for Palestine activities to compile actual evidence of policy violations, and if not, why not. I guess the answer is no/not yet or else evidence would have been presented in the PIA5 discussions or at AE for specific editors by now since that information has been available for a while. I may be a lot more cynical than you when it comes to enforcing rules in PIA because I see sanctions/remedies as mostly performative nowadays. They appear to have little to no actual impact on the dynamics of the topic area over time unless they are machine enforceable like EC protection, and even then, the benefit is very limited. People enforcing rules in PIA doesn't seem to work. The main benefits of enforcement seem to be that it can be weaponized and exploited by partisan actors to keep the fires burning/take out perceived enemies and it provides reinforcement learning so that people get better at exploiting weaknesses in the system over time. I also think that much of what happens in the topic area, rule breaking or not, is not visible/goes unnoticed/is given a pass. This is evident from the number of edits ban evading accounts manage to make before they are blocked. ] (]) 07:52, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
<blockquote>"Objects to the idea of creating a virtual Israeli state on Misplaced Pages that annexes pages - including those for Palestinian towns it ethnically cleansed - to itself, but if such a project is to exist, will monitor its development with the aim of ensuring as much balance as is possible in such a blatantly biased endeavour" (Tiamut)</blockquote>
What is this supposed to mean? Please clarify exactly what contribution you are going to make to Israel-related articles. If your main purpose is complaining about fictional POV issues, I do not understand why you register as a member of this project. --] | <small>'']''</small> 12:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


== RFC: ] ==
:I don't think projects should allow members who are inherently opposed to the subject of the project, anyway. If the user thinks he can balance Arab-Israeli-conflict-related articles (which I doubt, but I will assume good faith), then he can just as easily do it from outside the project. In any case, the Arab-Israeli conflict is only a small part of the scope of this project. -- ] <sup>(])</sup> 13:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


This RFC might interest contributors of this project. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 19:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
::Correct. I find Tiamut's remarks very weird and wonder why he wants to join this project (also nothing that he made only a handful of contributions since July). If no explanation will be given, I think we can safely delete his name from the list. Gmar chatima tova! --] | <small>'']''</small> 13:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


== Sourcing for events at Kamal Adwan Hospital, Gaza ==
On a side note, User:Heckhgs may also need to be deleted. His own user page states that he isn't really into editing articles and only placed his name on this project page because he 'hates Israel'.<br />
And, Gmar Hatima Tova, of course. Have an easy fast. -- ] <sup>(])</sup> 13:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I deleted both and put up some rules. Do you agree with them?
::;Rules for joining
::You must be an active editor, meaning that you are regularly on Misplaced Pages and not only once every few months. You must also be actively involved in editing Israel-related articles.
:Agree? --] | <small>'']''</small> 13:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Yes, these are the rules for several projects I frequent, such as WikiProject Ice Hockey. -- ] <sup>(])</sup> 13:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at ]. ☆ <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">]</span> (]) 03:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)<!-- ] -->
Excuse me, but I thought this Wiki group was open to anyone who had an interest in editing articles related to Israel in a quality, non-biased fashion. It seems as though you are contradicting yourselves when you purge the only two joiners to your project who obviously don't idolize the Israeli state. Perhaps we might provide some important balance, no? For your information, I'm a citizen of that state and believe that I have a right to participate in both its real and virtual democratic realms. You can't just edit the rules for joining right after I join up just so as to specifically exclude me. Or is your objective not as described? Please respond. Thank you! ] 15:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


== Discussion about "History of the Jews in ____" articles ==
Also, I've reviewed some of the other project members' histories. ] only joined Misplaced Pages in mid-September. If I open a new account and write everyday from the first day forward, can I join too? ] took a three month hiatus from Misplaced Pages between June and September of this year, about the same amount of time I was out of editing. Additionally, I have edited a number of Israel-related pages. In fact, how I came to know of this project was when I went to page for Tzippori which I have worked on and found it associated with this group, which is why I felt compelled to join. I also edited pages on ] and ]. And, I don't edit once every few months. I edit a lot when I do log on and take breaks between logging on. I think your newly formulated "rules" need some reviewing. They are not being applied fairly across the board and without a minimum time being an editor at Misplaced Pages being stipulated, they don't make much sense. Accordingly, I have re-added my name to your project list. If you want to remove me again, I would appreciate a full and detailed explanation as to why. But I would prefer that we put this matter behind us and get to work. ] 16:39, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


Please see ] dealing with articles about Jews and Jewish history. Thank you, ] (]) 17:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
:I would support removing any editor who doesn't edit much and just added their name to this project for the sake of adding it, whether pro-Israeli or anti-Israeli. I have not personally reviewed any of the users' editing histories and cannot say which users should be removed, but if someone is willing to do this work, feel free to do so. If Tiamut does start to actively edit Israel-related articles, there is no problem for him being in the project (Tiamut: I will reply to your question on my talk page ASAP). -- ] <sup>(])</sup> 19:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


==SHARAP==
::Tiamut, I was looking at the contributions of Gronkmeister and Ilikefood also. They should, according to the rules which I put up, also be removed. However, you and Heckcgs explicitly stated an objective which is very weird. It is like joining Wikiproject Palestine and saying you support Israel. People would be looking just as weird. I did not know that you are Israeli. If you are Israeli, and you are indeed planning to become a serious participant on Israel-related articles, then please add your name again (but perhaps without a whole megillah behind it). --] | <small>'']''</small> 20:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I wonder if anyone feels like writing an article about this contentious subject? Or failing that a section for ]? All the best: ''] ]''<small> 16:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC).</small><br />


== D. Grossman ==
==Translate please==
It seems that this list didn't get much attention at ], so I'm copying it here (minus articles already created):


Could anyone of you please start an article on him here on en.wp? There is a lot of info sourced to him. I asked , but he seems o be on a wiki break. The article about him on Hebrew wp is https://he.wikipedia.org/דוד_גרוסמן_(גאוגרף) Cheers, ] (]) 21:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
Here's a short list of articles about people which don't exist on EnWiki yet, but do on HeWiki:
*] (or ]) (]) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv
*] (]) - journalist, founder of ]
*] (]) - journalist, poet, writer
*] (]) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv
*] (]) - Zionist, member of ]
*] (]) - doctor, Zionist
*] (or ]) (]) - writer, playwright
*] (]) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv and head of Histadrut
*] (]) - politician, head of Histadrut
*] (]) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv
*] (]) - Zionist, one of the founders of Tel Aviv
*] (or ]) (]) - politician, head of Histadrut, head of Knesset
-- ] <sup>(])</sup> 22:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


== Articles about types of Jews as well as their histories ==
===Law of Return Article===


Please see the discussion at ]. Thank you, ] (]) 20:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
I started editing the Law of Return article. Any feedback on changes I made to the first half of the article are welcome. I could also use some help in locating citations for places that are currently missing some. Thanks! ] 15:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


== Requested move at ] ==
==Project award==
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 17:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
While there is already the Barnstar of National Merit, I think we should introduce an award that is more relevant to this project and also to similar projects like Judaism, Jewish history, etc. How about something like the WikiStar of David, for all the aforementioned projects? If it gets approved, I will work on an image (and encourage others to do so). -- ] <sup>(])</sup> 21:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. Go ahead. --] | <small>'']''</small> 21:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


== Requested move at ] ==
: Cool. ] 22:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 00:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)


== ] ==
:In Israel, those hanging flaps on a uniform shoulder are a big deal, they show what brigade someone is a part of, maybe a Wiki should flap? --] 03:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


Please find sources. ] (]) 05:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
== The Foundation Stone ==

The article on the Rock of the Dome of the Rock, the Rock on which Abraham nearly sacrificed Isaac, is currently listed under ], the Arabic term. I personally have never heard of it being called "The Foundation Stone" before, nor am I familiar with the Hebrew word. But if anyone has any suggestions, I would invite you to contribute to a discussion on that article's talk page; we're looking to find a term, preferably in English, which accurately and specifically describes said Rock, and which will be acceptable to editors and readers of both faiths. Thank you. ] 22:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:I have heard the term "foundation stone" before, but I am not sure if there is a standard name for it in English. --] 00:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
::The ''even ha'shtiyah'' in Hebrew. Another example of an article about a subject which is both Jewish and Islamic, yet only an 'Islamic' article. Previously I encountered ] (''alav ha'shalom''), which was also an Islam-only article then. I split that up in three articles: one about the expression in Judaism, one about Islam, and one disambig. --] | <small>'']''</small> 08:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
::Well, shalom alechem v'alechem shalom! --] 03:29, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

I can't find a general article about Israeli cuisine. Does one exist? ] is just a redirect to ]. (This question came up because I was trying to figure out what would be considered the typical native alcoholic beverage of Israel.) --] 05:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

:Typical beverages in Israel:
:Beer - (domestic) Goldstar, Maccabbee, (import) Tuborg, Heineken
:Liqour - Sabra, Arak (domestic)
:General Wines, domestic from the Golan
:I am not sure if there are pages for those, or if they are spelled correctly, but that is what Israelis drink.

*Thanks for the information. I'm still looking for the general food article, though. --] 05:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

:no it doesn't exist yet. I was thinking of writing one. ] exists and ], that's it. ] 15:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

== Yom Kippur War==
I was wondering whether you'd agree we need to change the picture of the template at ]. Israel won the war and that picture may be misleading as it only represents the beginning of the war. I was thinking something could be made like the picture in the template of ] that shows 3 pictures including bombed areas both in lebanon and haifa making it fair and balanced. Maybe one can add Ariel Sharon's picture with a bandage, famous icon photo of the war or some other photo next to the egyptian soldiers. If people agree, maybe someone with good photo and wiki skills can create that image and use it ? ] 02:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 05:35, 13 December 2024

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Canvassing

It looks like there was (has been?) a large scale canvassing operation targeting Israel-related topics on Misplaced Pages, see here. The first part of the article is not very convincing in my opinion but coordinating edits on Discord seems like a clear violation of the policy. Alaexis¿question? 19:30, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

It looks like they mention two different groups, the first they don't seem to name, the second being Tech for Palestine. It seems like most of Tech for Palestine's activities are transparent, including some past on-wiki coordination (see here), but more concerningly, there's also coordination on a now-private Discord channel. It seems most evidence was deleted, though there are a few screenshots like in . @BilledMammal: might have more information. — xDanielx /C\ 20:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
This isn't a forum, if there is evidence of something sanctionable, do the necessary. Selfstudier (talk) 21:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
@Amayorov and Sean.hoyland: just cc'ing you based on your related discussion. — xDanielx /C\ 21:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
See also Inside the war over Israel at Misplaced PagesxDanielx /C\ 22:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
I agree the Tech for Palestine's channel for Misplaced Pages editing has a high likelihood of constituting improper canvassing. However, the issue would be stale if the channel is inactive. I have asked on the Discord server the status of their Misplaced Pages activities. Ca 14:01, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
They say they discontinued their Misplaced Pages editing channel due to doxxing. I believe the issue to be now stale. Ca 12:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

<-Yes, I already read it. I learned that I am one of the top 30 members of this powerful group of pro-Hamas editors hijacking Misplaced Pages. So, I already know the author is either a bit dopey, dishonest or both.

  • There is, no doubt, plenty of offsite coordination going on and there has been for years. We already know the use of deception and canvassing is relatively common among Israel supporters here of course, has been for well over a decade, and is seen as justified from an in-world perspective, so it wouldn't be surprising at all if these kinds of activities existed with the opposite valence.
  • My view is that little to nothing can be done about it because it is not currently possible to prevent off-site coordination or any determined individual from editing in the topic area due to various technical and wiki-cultural constraints. For example, I believe that one of the people banned in the CAMERA lobbying case is currently active in the topic area, and Misplaced Pages's rather unserious approach to ban evasion, or the ranking of privacy over honesty, means that it can't be addressed. That's okay. Nobody died.
  • Given the technical/cultural limits that can't be changed it seems, I would rather there was an emphasis on enforcing compliance with the Wikimedia Universal Code of Conduct's position that unacceptable behavior includes "systematically manipulating content to favour specific interpretations of facts or points of view" i.e. biased editing/activism. The normalization of biased editing/advocacy means that you naturally produce conjugate sets of editors with opposite valence forming something like an autocatalytic set or a self-sustaining fire. But again, anyone blocked for biased editing/advocacy/coordination/canvassing etc. can easily return with a new account and quickly become extended confirmed using numerous tools that Misplaced Pages provides to new users to get them started.
  • On the article itself, it is hard for me to take it seriously as these kinds of conspiratorial, casually defamatory, attack pieces camouflaged as rational analyses remind me so much of antisemitic conspiracy theories and conversations I've had with street people over the years, including a man who believed he was John the Baptist. The primarily utility of these kinds of attack articles and low-quality media reporting about on-wiki-things for me personally, as someone interested in the dynamics of the topic area, is that they are a useful reminder of the Gell-Mann amnesia effect and they help to identify actors with an elevated susceptibility to misinformation and manipulation and/or a willingness to generate or inject disinformation into Misplaced Pages's systems either directly or by employing external vectors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. Indeed a lot of the article seems like guesswork, maybe poor guesswork. Just wondering if anyone had dug into this further to determine what actual evidence exists.
To the extent that their is evidence of stealth canvassing, I think it should be acted on regardless of the editor's ideology. Certainly ban enforcement has its challenges, but that doesn't seem like enough reason to ignore rulebreaking. — xDanielx /C\ 05:08, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
I'm also wondering if anyone has managed to have a detailed look at the Tech for Palestine activities to compile actual evidence of policy violations, and if not, why not. I guess the answer is no/not yet or else evidence would have been presented in the PIA5 discussions or at AE for specific editors by now since that information has been available for a while. I may be a lot more cynical than you when it comes to enforcing rules in PIA because I see sanctions/remedies as mostly performative nowadays. They appear to have little to no actual impact on the dynamics of the topic area over time unless they are machine enforceable like EC protection, and even then, the benefit is very limited. People enforcing rules in PIA doesn't seem to work. The main benefits of enforcement seem to be that it can be weaponized and exploited by partisan actors to keep the fires burning/take out perceived enemies and it provides reinforcement learning so that people get better at exploiting weaknesses in the system over time. I also think that much of what happens in the topic area, rule breaking or not, is not visible/goes unnoticed/is given a pass. This is evident from the number of edits ban evading accounts manage to make before they are blocked. Sean.hoyland (talk) 07:52, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

RFC: Talk:1948 Arab–Israeli War#RFC for Jewish exodus

This RFC might interest contributors of this project. Andre🚐 19:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Sourcing for events at Kamal Adwan Hospital, Gaza

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kamal Adwan Hospital sieges § Over-use of Al Jazeera. ☆ Bri (talk) 03:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Discussion about "History of the Jews in ____" articles

Please see Talk:Jews in Madagascar#Requested move 1 November 2024 dealing with articles about Jews and Jewish history. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 17:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

SHARAP

I wonder if anyone feels like writing an article about this contentious subject? Or failing that a section for Healthcare in Israel? All the best: Rich Farmbrough 16:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC).

D. Grossman

Could anyone of you please start an article on him here on en.wp? There is a lot of info sourced to him. I asked Rajoub570, but he seems o be on a wiki break. The article about him on Hebrew wp is https://he.wikipedia.org/דוד_גרוסמן_(גאוגרף) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Articles about types of Jews as well as their histories

Please see the discussion at Talk:Georgian Jews#Requested move 12 November 2024. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 20:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Gaza Strip famine#Requested move 27 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Gaza Strip famine#Requested move 27 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 18 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 18 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Kav LaOved

Please find sources. Bearian (talk) 05:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

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