| Revision as of 04:50, 8 November 2022 edit49.181.176.222 (talk) →Debate / defend / reject / submit examples here: Avoidance and Evasion are quite different.← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 22:39, 15 December 2024 edit undoMichaelMaggs (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers43,923 edits →question about how this is being define: ReplyTag: Reply | ||
| (39 intermediate revisions by 18 users not shown) | |||
| Line 4: | Line 4: | ||
| | result = '''keep/speedy keep''' | | result = '''keep/speedy keep''' | ||
| | page = Eggcorn | | page = Eggcorn | ||
| }} | |||
| {{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|1= | |||
| {{WikiProject Linguistics |importance=Low}} | |||
| }} | }} | ||
| {{User:MiszaBot/config | {{User:MiszaBot/config | ||
| Line 15: | Line 18: | ||
| }} | }} | ||
| {{Archives|bot=lowercase sigmabot III|age=6|units=months|minthreadsleft=4}} | {{Archives|bot=lowercase sigmabot III|age=6|units=months|minthreadsleft=4}} | ||
| == Eggcorn vs. Mondegreen == | |||
| The article seems to imply that eggcorns are different from mondegreens in some important but unstated way. As far as I can tell they are different words for the same phenomenon, which is fine. Is there any real well sourced linguistic distinction or can we just say that both Geoffrey Pullum and Sylvia Wright both independently noticed the phenomenon and each gave it a different name? ] (]) 22:27, 31 May 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :Yes, there is a difference. An eggcorn uses words that sound similar (and have not, as with mondegreens, been misheard) to words or phrases, ''and'' have a meaning that is similar to the original term. Example: '''old-timer's disease''' for '''''Alzheimer's Disease'''''. A mondegreen, such as '''wrapped up like a douche''', has nothing to do with the original '''''revved up like a deuce'''''. Paulmlieberman (]) 14:03, 1 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::However, ''like'' mondegreens, an eggcorn often arises when a word or expression has been communicated verbally. It may then pass into common currency in a written medium, typically the Internet. Witness ''all of the sudden'' and ''a whole nother''. ] (]) 15:16, 6 July 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :These are all interesting hypotheses about the distinction between the terms. Is there any academic or other authority we can reference to clarify the true difference (assuming one exists). ] (]) 18:28, 24 August 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::One place to start might be , including LanguageLog link. ] (]) 18:16, 4 September 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::: Check it out. ] (]) 11:42, 14 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == "Bone Apple Tea" Redirect == | |||
| ] should not be redirected here, as the faulty phrases don't have the same meaning. Instead it should be redirected to ]. --] (]) 15:24, 2 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == "Bone Apple Tea" listed at ] == | |||
| ] | |||
| A discussion is taking place to address the redirect ]. The discussion will occur at ] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 23:32, 3 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == New section for suggestions == | |||
| I noticed the edit notice (that you see when attempting to edit the article) pointed to a talk section that had been archived. To fix this I renamed the old archived section, and started a new section with the name used by the edit notice (that I can't edit). It is below. Furthermore I implemented automatic archiving, and to that end, have pinned this new suggestion section so that it won't be archived by the bot (and hopefully not by human editors either). Cheers ] (]) 12:04, 14 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == Debate / defend / reject / submit examples here == | == Debate / defend / reject / submit examples here == | ||
| Line 41: | Line 24: | ||
| : ''For the previous, now archived, list of suggested examples, see ] | : ''For the previous, now archived, list of suggested examples, see ] | ||
| '''Note:''' Suggestions here that don't quote a ] can't be considered for inclusion on this page | '''Note:''' '''Suggestions here that don't quote a ] can't be considered for inclusion on this page''' | ||
| <!-- add your suggestions here --> | <!-- add your suggestions here --> | ||
| * Take for granite (take for granted) https://grammarist.com/eggcorns/take-for-granted-or-take-for-granite/ or https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/pardon-the-expression/take-for-granted-vs-take-for-granite/ <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:40, 25 September 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| *Roller Board for Roll Aboard suitcase <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:13, 7 July 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | *Roller Board for Roll Aboard suitcase <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:13, 7 July 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | ||
| Line 55: | Line 40: | ||
| *On Misplaced Pages, I repeatedly encountered the phrase "an indefinitely blocked user ''avoiding their block''", although what was meant was ] ''their block''. The word "avoiding" in this phrase is also an example of an eggcorn, as it is plausible when used in the same context. ] (]) 17:42, 22 April 2022 (UTC) | *On Misplaced Pages, I repeatedly encountered the phrase "an indefinitely blocked user ''avoiding their block''", although what was meant was ] ''their block''. The word "avoiding" in this phrase is also an example of an eggcorn, as it is plausible when used in the same context. ] (]) 17:42, 22 April 2022 (UTC) | ||
| *:Not sure it is an eggcorn, as in that context 'avoid' and 'evade' mean very much the same thing. Anyway, though, user discussion on Misplaced Pages is not considered a ] for citation purposes. @ ] (]) 20:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC) | *:Not sure it is an eggcorn, as in that context 'avoid' and 'evade' mean very much the same thing. Anyway, though, user discussion on Misplaced Pages is not considered a ] for citation purposes. @ ] (]) 20:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC) | ||
| *::This dispute comes up often in ] where star systems all have a "security rating" and police ("Concord") only patrol systems with 0.5 and higher security. You can '''''avoid''''' Concord entirely by spending your time in "low-sec" systems and that's a perfectly legitimate way to play. However, if you commit crime in "high-sec" and immediately dock with a station (or use other means) to '''''evade''''' Concord, your account gets suspended or banned. Avoidance is all about starting distant and staying distant from something with no specific intent. Evasion is all about starting close and intentionally becoming distant from something which has the specific intent to restrain you. Avoiding Concord is encouraged; evading Concord breaches the game rules. It's a very clear distinction but new players who don't understand the words can come to the wrong conclusion.] (]) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | *::This dispute comes up often in ] where star systems all have a "security rating" and police ("Concord") only patrol systems with 0.5 and higher security. You can '''''avoid''''' Concord entirely by spending your time in "low-sec" systems and that's a perfectly legitimate way to play. However, if you commit crime in "high-sec" and immediately dock with a station (or use other means) to '''''evade''''' Concord, your account gets suspended or banned. Avoidance is all about starting distant and staying distant from something with no specific intent. Evasion is all about starting close and intentionally becoming distant from something which has the specific intent to restrain you. Avoiding Concord is encouraged; evading Concord breaches the game rules. It's a very clear distinction but new players who don't understand the words can come to the wrong conclusion. In the Misplaced Pages ban context, ''avoiding'' the ban means spending their online time on other websites (or passively reading WP) whereas ''evading'' the ban means taking steps to circumvent the measures in place and persisting in actively editing WP. ] (]) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
| *:::It's also a bigger real-world issue with ] (legal) and ] (illegal). Confusing two similar technical words doesn't really seem like an eggcorn, though. ] (]) 09:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | |||
| *] sing the phrase "every once ''and'' a little while" in their song ]. This isn't a mondegreen since those are the actual lyrics. Nor is it a standard idiom (that's "every once in a little while"). It's something peculiar The Killers invented and a Google search for that phrase only turns up references to their lyrics. While this shows that the lyricist wasn't copying any established cohort of people who say "and a little while", it also means there aren't reliable sources for classifying this as an eggcorn.] (]) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | *] sing the phrase "every once ''and'' a little while" in their song ]. This isn't a mondegreen since those are the actual lyrics. Nor is it a standard idiom (that's "every once in a little while"). It's something peculiar The Killers invented and a Google search for that phrase only turns up references to their lyrics. While this shows that the lyricist wasn't copying any established cohort of people who say "and a little while", it also means there aren't reliable sources for classifying this as an eggcorn. ] (]) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
| *:I was coming to this page because after learning about eggcorns I started examining phrases I use, I thought about it and I used to confuse "once in a while" with "once and a while". I looked it up on google and there was a suggestion of "once and a while vs once in a while" the phrase might contain another eggcorn as well. I also found in one article mentioning "once in awhile" being mentioned, so it might also be a common might be a misinterpretation. | |||
| *:https://kris-spisak.com/writing-tip-every-once-and-a-while-vs-every-once-in-a-while/#:~:text=Reminder%3A%20%E2%80%9CEvery%20once%20in%20a,red%20pen%20at%20the%20offenders. | |||
| *:https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/19/once-and-a-while/ | |||
| *:as an aside "damp squid" doesn't make sense, it seems more like a malapropism, squids like being damp and it wouldn't make sense in the context "the party went off like a damp squib" and "the party went off like a damp squid". The same goes for common examples "toe the line" for "tow the line", "death nail" for "death knell", "for all intensive purposes" for "for all intents and purposes" though I'm less strongly convinced about the first two. If I'm mistaken please lets discus, my understanding is the definition usually includes | |||
| *:"An eggcorn is the alteration of a phrase through the mishearing or reinterpretation of one or more of its elements, creating a new phrase having a different meaning from the original but which still makes sense and is plausible when used in the same context." | |||
| *:the still makes sense in context is what I think these examples don't follow, they also don't follow logic as in "damp squid" which I see logic and creativity also listed as requirements. | |||
| *:"card shark" for "card sharp" is an example as it's creative, follows logic, and fits in context. like sharks are apex predators while someone who is excelling at slight of hand would also be at the apex of skill or sharp. I think at this point it might be a folk etymology. ] (]) 00:25, 10 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| *:*:As to "every once and a little while", this is more of a mumpsimus than an eggcorn. To qualify as an eggcorn, a phrase should be meaningful, maybe even adding a richness to the original; e.g. "old-timer's disease" for "Alzheimer's disease". | |||
| *:Paulmlieberman (]) 15:00, 10 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| *::would "ripe with" and "rife with"/ "damp squid" and "damp squib" count as adding to the so called richness ] (]) 04:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| *:::"Rife with" sounds possible if you can cite a reliable source ] (]) 09:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| * Noting "bone apple tea" here as a phrase that doesn't appear to fit the definition, but which has appeared in the article in the past and used to redirect here. (] made it a wiktionary redirect last year.) I don't think it's an eggcorn, as it isn't "plausible when used in the same context" in the way that the other phrases are. Perhaps there's an argument that in a conversation between two English speakers who don't speak any French, both the correct and misheard versions might seem equally plausible to them? But I feel like eggcorns have to have the angle where if the speaker stops to think superficially about what they've just said, the phrase makes logical sense to them ("it's a disease that old-timers get") and they conclude that they're right to keep using it. --] (]) 15:01, 14 September 2022 (UTC) | * Noting "bone apple tea" here as a phrase that doesn't appear to fit the definition, but which has appeared in the article in the past and used to redirect here. (] made it a wiktionary redirect last year.) I don't think it's an eggcorn, as it isn't "plausible when used in the same context" in the way that the other phrases are. Perhaps there's an argument that in a conversation between two English speakers who don't speak any French, both the correct and misheard versions might seem equally plausible to them? But I feel like eggcorns have to have the angle where if the speaker stops to think superficially about what they've just said, the phrase makes logical sense to them ("it's a disease that old-timers get") and they conclude that they're right to keep using it. --] (]) 15:01, 14 September 2022 (UTC) | ||
| *:You're right - I hadn't read the definition of eggcorn closely enough when I thought of that example. The property of "making sense in its own right" is what makes a standard malapropism an eggcorn. | *:You're right - I hadn't read the definition of eggcorn closely enough when I thought of that example. The property of "making sense in its own right" is what makes a standard malapropism an eggcorn. | ||
| *:Until someone makes a drink named "bone apple tea" that, when drunk, aides in increasing one's appetite or otherwise enjoyment of food, I don't think it counts as an eggcorn. ] (]) 21:52, 14 September 2022 (UTC) | *:Until someone makes a drink named "bone apple tea" that, when drunk, aides in increasing one's appetite or otherwise enjoyment of food, I don't think it counts as an eggcorn. ] (]) 21:52, 14 September 2022 (UTC) | ||
| * "Marshall law" for "]"<ref>{{Cite web |last=Nichols |first=Tom |date=2022-12-13 |title=The Republicans Need a Reckoning |url=https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/12/the-republicans-need-a-reckoning/672452/ |access-date=2022-12-15 |website=The Atlantic |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=GOP congressman tries, fails to explain away ‘marshall law’ text |url=https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/gop-congressman-tries-fails-explain-away-marshall-law-text-rcna61632 |access-date=2022-12-15 |website=MSNBC.com |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Breuninger |first=Kevin |title=Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene texted Trump aide Mark Meadows about using 'Marshall law' after Jan. 6 riot, report says |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/25/marjorie-taylor-greene-texted-trump-aide-meadows-about-martial-law-after-jan-6-report.html |access-date=2022-12-15 |website=CNBC |language=en}}</ref> | |||
| ::Added by ] 15 December 2022. ] (]) 06:44, 15 December 2022 (UTC) | |||
| ::I think it's fairly reasonable. Marshall could mean "arrange or assemble (a group of people, especially soldiers) in order.", which would have plenty to do the suspension of ordinary civilian law. Can also refer to the head of the police department. It would be kind of plausible if it was actually spelt "marshall law". ] 06:48, 15 December 2022 (UTC) | |||
| :::I'm going to sleep soon, so I may respond in the morning. ] 06:50, 15 December 2022 (UTC) | |||
| * "Tow the line" for "toe the line" is a common example that I was surprised to see excluded from the list. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 20:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| : Can you quote a reliable source? See note at top. ] (]) 20:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC) | |||
| * "lack toast and tolerant" for "]"<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.betterlabtestsnow.com/am-i-lack-toast-and-tolerant/ |website=Am I Lack Toast And Tolerant? No, But You May Be Lactose Intolerant! |access-date=29 November 2023}}</ref> | |||
| {{Reflist-talk}} | |||
| == Does "pencil-crayon" count? == | |||
| It's a thing Canadians call colored pencils (example: "She memorized every pencil-crayon color in the box" from "Life, in a Nutshell" by ]) because their boxes of Crayola colored pencils say "PENCIL/CRAYON" ("crayon" being French for "pencil") on them. Not quite a malapropism like the other eggcorns on the page, but a similar phenomenon in that it's an apropos term borne out of a misunderstanding. ] (]) 01:21, 1 June 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :No, an eggcorn depends on mishearing or reinterpreting pronunciation. For example, the word ''eggcorn'' presumably results from the similar sound of /ɛɡ+kɔɹn/ (''egg corn'') and /eɪ.kɚn/ (acorn). If ''pencil-crayon'' results from reinterpreting the bilingual written form "PENCIL/CRAYON" as a single English word, then that is a different type of reinterpretation. In both cases there is a meaning component (acorns are shaped a bit like eggs; colored pencils are used similarly to wax crayons), but the misunderstanding comes from a different domain. ] (]) 03:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :Thank you for blowing my mind... perhaps this kind of reinterpretation is a "Rickyism"? ] (]) 15:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == New eggcorn example == | |||
| I want to add, "too big for our bridges," how I understood it the first time I heard "too big for our britches." Does anyone have a source? ] (]) 12:38, 26 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I would argue that this is a mondegreen, not an eggcorn. Firstly, the usual usage is "You have gotten too big for your britches", meaning "Your ego has swollen to the point that you can't fit into your pants". To be too big for ''our'' bridges would indicate a collective ego, and doesn't have the same sense as the original. Paulmlieberman (]) 13:15, 29 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Reverted example: found source == | |||
| In support of the anonymous user's reverted good faith edit, adding "peaked one's interest": https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/eggcorns.php ] (]) 05:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == question about how this is being define == | |||
| The article says "creating a new phrase having a different meaning from the original," but in actuality the meaning doesn't change. The meaning remains the same in spite of the new wording. | |||
| "baited breath" and "bated breath" mean the same thing. "bigly" and "big league" mean the same thing. Etc. Etc. | |||
| Can someone please clarify for me? <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:54, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :This seems to be an error. The cited source, the ''American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language'' (5th edition), actually says: "A series of words that result from the misunderstanding of a word or phrase as some other word or phrase having a plausible explanation". No mention of different meaning. I'll fix it. ] (]) 22:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 22:39, 15 December 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Eggcorn article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
 | This article was nominated for deletion on 21 December 2006. The result of the discussion was keep/speedy keep. |
 | This article is rated Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
| |||||||||||
 Archives | ||||||
|
||||||
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Debate / defend / reject / submit examples here
 | This talk section is referenced by the edit notice and is therefore pinned. It will not be automatically archived. |
- For the previous, now archived, list of suggested examples, see Talk:Eggcorn/Archive 6#Debate / defend / reject / submit examples here (old)
Note: Suggestions here that don't quote a reliable source can't be considered for inclusion on this page
- Take for granite (take for granted) https://grammarist.com/eggcorns/take-for-granted-or-take-for-granite/ or https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/pardon-the-expression/take-for-granted-vs-take-for-granite/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.213.32.199 (talk) 23:40, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
- Roller Board for Roll Aboard suitcase — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.128.14.55 (talk) 05:13, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- How about:
- "step foot in", for "set foot in"
- "under weigh" for "under way" or "underway" Kanjuzi (talk) 08:49, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
- "bonified" instead of "bona fide"; I've been editing this page for a few years, and had never heard this one before. I think it's great, and that we should include it in the examples. Paulmlieberman (talk) 15:00, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
- What about "stump of approval" instead of "stamp of approval"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:72:0:6480:0:0:0:DC (talk) 16:09, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- None of the above can be considered unless discussed in a reliable source. MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:03, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- On Misplaced Pages, I repeatedly encountered the phrase "an indefinitely blocked user avoiding their block", although what was meant was "evading" their block. The word "avoiding" in this phrase is also an example of an eggcorn, as it is plausible when used in the same context. 2A02:AB04:2AB:700:5C75:13F8:2995:36 (talk) 17:42, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- Not sure it is an eggcorn, as in that context 'avoid' and 'evade' mean very much the same thing. Anyway, though, user discussion on Misplaced Pages is not considered a reliable source for citation purposes. @ MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- This dispute comes up often in Eve Online where star systems all have a "security rating" and police ("Concord") only patrol systems with 0.5 and higher security. You can avoid Concord entirely by spending your time in "low-sec" systems and that's a perfectly legitimate way to play. However, if you commit crime in "high-sec" and immediately dock with a station (or use other means) to evade Concord, your account gets suspended or banned. Avoidance is all about starting distant and staying distant from something with no specific intent. Evasion is all about starting close and intentionally becoming distant from something which has the specific intent to restrain you. Avoiding Concord is encouraged; evading Concord breaches the game rules. It's a very clear distinction but new players who don't understand the words can come to the wrong conclusion. In the Misplaced Pages ban context, avoiding the ban means spending their online time on other websites (or passively reading WP) whereas evading the ban means taking steps to circumvent the measures in place and persisting in actively editing WP. 49.181.176.222 (talk) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
- It's also a bigger real-world issue with tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal). Confusing two similar technical words doesn't really seem like an eggcorn, though. Belbury (talk) 09:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
- This dispute comes up often in Eve Online where star systems all have a "security rating" and police ("Concord") only patrol systems with 0.5 and higher security. You can avoid Concord entirely by spending your time in "low-sec" systems and that's a perfectly legitimate way to play. However, if you commit crime in "high-sec" and immediately dock with a station (or use other means) to evade Concord, your account gets suspended or banned. Avoidance is all about starting distant and staying distant from something with no specific intent. Evasion is all about starting close and intentionally becoming distant from something which has the specific intent to restrain you. Avoiding Concord is encouraged; evading Concord breaches the game rules. It's a very clear distinction but new players who don't understand the words can come to the wrong conclusion. In the Misplaced Pages ban context, avoiding the ban means spending their online time on other websites (or passively reading WP) whereas evading the ban means taking steps to circumvent the measures in place and persisting in actively editing WP. 49.181.176.222 (talk) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
- Not sure it is an eggcorn, as in that context 'avoid' and 'evade' mean very much the same thing. Anyway, though, user discussion on Misplaced Pages is not considered a reliable source for citation purposes. @ MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- The Killers sing the phrase "every once and a little while" in their song When You Were Young. This isn't a mondegreen since those are the actual lyrics. Nor is it a standard idiom (that's "every once in a little while"). It's something peculiar The Killers invented and a Google search for that phrase only turns up references to their lyrics. While this shows that the lyricist wasn't copying any established cohort of people who say "and a little while", it also means there aren't reliable sources for classifying this as an eggcorn. 49.181.176.222 (talk) 04:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
- I was coming to this page because after learning about eggcorns I started examining phrases I use, I thought about it and I used to confuse "once in a while" with "once and a while". I looked it up on google and there was a suggestion of "once and a while vs once in a while" the phrase might contain another eggcorn as well. I also found in one article mentioning "once in awhile" being mentioned, so it might also be a common might be a misinterpretation.
- https://kris-spisak.com/writing-tip-every-once-and-a-while-vs-every-once-in-a-while/#:~:text=Reminder%3A%20%E2%80%9CEvery%20once%20in%20a,red%20pen%20at%20the%20offenders.
- https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/19/once-and-a-while/
- as an aside "damp squid" doesn't make sense, it seems more like a malapropism, squids like being damp and it wouldn't make sense in the context "the party went off like a damp squib" and "the party went off like a damp squid". The same goes for common examples "toe the line" for "tow the line", "death nail" for "death knell", "for all intensive purposes" for "for all intents and purposes" though I'm less strongly convinced about the first two. If I'm mistaken please lets discus, my understanding is the definition usually includes
- "An eggcorn is the alteration of a phrase through the mishearing or reinterpretation of one or more of its elements, creating a new phrase having a different meaning from the original but which still makes sense and is plausible when used in the same context."
- the still makes sense in context is what I think these examples don't follow, they also don't follow logic as in "damp squid" which I see logic and creativity also listed as requirements.
- "card shark" for "card sharp" is an example as it's creative, follows logic, and fits in context. like sharks are apex predators while someone who is excelling at slight of hand would also be at the apex of skill or sharp. I think at this point it might be a folk etymology. 24.185.252.30 (talk) 00:25, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- As to "every once and a little while", this is more of a mumpsimus than an eggcorn. To qualify as an eggcorn, a phrase should be meaningful, maybe even adding a richness to the original; e.g. "old-timer's disease" for "Alzheimer's disease".
- Paulmlieberman (talk) 15:00, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- would "ripe with" and "rife with"/ "damp squid" and "damp squib" count as adding to the so called richness 24.185.252.30 (talk) 04:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- "Rife with" sounds possible if you can cite a reliable source MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- would "ripe with" and "rife with"/ "damp squid" and "damp squib" count as adding to the so called richness 24.185.252.30 (talk) 04:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Noting "bone apple tea" here as a phrase that doesn't appear to fit the definition, but which has appeared in the article in the past and used to redirect here. (Misplaced Pages:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2021_March_11#Bone_Apple_Tea made it a wiktionary redirect last year.) I don't think it's an eggcorn, as it isn't "plausible when used in the same context" in the way that the other phrases are. Perhaps there's an argument that in a conversation between two English speakers who don't speak any French, both the correct and misheard versions might seem equally plausible to them? But I feel like eggcorns have to have the angle where if the speaker stops to think superficially about what they've just said, the phrase makes logical sense to them ("it's a disease that old-timers get") and they conclude that they're right to keep using it. --Lord Belbury (talk) 15:01, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
- You're right - I hadn't read the definition of eggcorn closely enough when I thought of that example. The property of "making sense in its own right" is what makes a standard malapropism an eggcorn.
- Until someone makes a drink named "bone apple tea" that, when drunk, aides in increasing one's appetite or otherwise enjoyment of food, I don't think it counts as an eggcorn. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 21:52, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
- "Marshall law" for "martial law"
- Added by User:Bremps 15 December 2022. Cnilep (talk) 06:44, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- I think it's fairly reasonable. Marshall could mean "arrange or assemble (a group of people, especially soldiers) in order.", which would have plenty to do the suspension of ordinary civilian law. Can also refer to the head of the police department. It would be kind of plausible if it was actually spelt "marshall law". Bremps 06:48, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- I'm going to sleep soon, so I may respond in the morning. Bremps 06:50, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- "Tow the line" for "toe the line" is a common example that I was surprised to see excluded from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvonwerder1 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
- Can you quote a reliable source? See note at top. MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
- "lack toast and tolerant" for "lactose intolerant"
References
- Nichols, Tom (2022-12-13). "The Republicans Need a Reckoning". The Atlantic. Retrieved 2022-12-15.
- "GOP congressman tries, fails to explain away 'marshall law' text". MSNBC.com. Retrieved 2022-12-15.
- Breuninger, Kevin. "Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene texted Trump aide Mark Meadows about using 'Marshall law' after Jan. 6 riot, report says". CNBC. Retrieved 2022-12-15.
- Am I Lack Toast And Tolerant? No, But You May Be Lactose Intolerant! https://www.betterlabtestsnow.com/am-i-lack-toast-and-tolerant/. Retrieved 29 November 2023.
{{cite web}}: Missing or empty|title=(help)
Does "pencil-crayon" count?
It's a thing Canadians call colored pencils (example: "She memorized every pencil-crayon color in the box" from "Life, in a Nutshell" by Barenaked Ladies) because their boxes of Crayola colored pencils say "PENCIL/CRAYON" ("crayon" being French for "pencil") on them. Not quite a malapropism like the other eggcorns on the page, but a similar phenomenon in that it's an apropos term borne out of a misunderstanding. Octan (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, an eggcorn depends on mishearing or reinterpreting pronunciation. For example, the word eggcorn presumably results from the similar sound of /ɛɡ+kɔɹn/ (egg corn) and /eɪ.kɚn/ (acorn). If pencil-crayon results from reinterpreting the bilingual written form "PENCIL/CRAYON" as a single English word, then that is a different type of reinterpretation. In both cases there is a meaning component (acorns are shaped a bit like eggs; colored pencils are used similarly to wax crayons), but the misunderstanding comes from a different domain. Cnilep (talk) 03:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for blowing my mind... perhaps this kind of reinterpretation is a "Rickyism"? Cerulean Depths (talk) 15:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
New eggcorn example
I want to add, "too big for our bridges," how I understood it the first time I heard "too big for our britches." Does anyone have a source? Hmm1 (talk) 12:38, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would argue that this is a mondegreen, not an eggcorn. Firstly, the usual usage is "You have gotten too big for your britches", meaning "Your ego has swollen to the point that you can't fit into your pants". To be too big for our bridges would indicate a collective ego, and doesn't have the same sense as the original. Paulmlieberman (talk) 13:15, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Reverted example: found source
In support of the anonymous user's reverted good faith edit, adding "peaked one's interest": https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/eggcorns.php Cerulean Depths (talk) 05:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
question about how this is being define
The article says "creating a new phrase having a different meaning from the original," but in actuality the meaning doesn't change. The meaning remains the same in spite of the new wording.
"baited breath" and "bated breath" mean the same thing. "bigly" and "big league" mean the same thing. Etc. Etc.
Can someone please clarify for me? Kingturtle = (talk) 21:54, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
- This seems to be an error. The cited source, the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (5th edition), actually says: "A series of words that result from the misunderstanding of a word or phrase as some other word or phrase having a plausible explanation". No mention of different meaning. I'll fix it. MichaelMaggs (talk) 22:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)