| Revision as of 02:52, 30 May 2022 editJmrowland (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users7,001 edits →A Kim here, a Kim there, and before long you're talking some real Kim: new section← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 15:36, 18 December 2024 edit undoSahaib (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers149,310 editsNo edit summary |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Kim, Jong-Il|1= |
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{{old move|date=6 April 2023|from=Kim Jong-il|destination=Kim Jong Il|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1149753649#Requested move 6 April 2023}} |
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== Kim Jong Il date of death == |
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== Move discussion in progress == |
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There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Yuri Kim (ambassador)#Requested move 25 May 2022 crosspost --> —] 06:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC) |
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Kim Jong Il died either late Dec. 2012 or early Jan 2013. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== A Kim here, a Kim there, and before long you're talking some real Kim == |
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== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion == |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: |
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Does anyone see the inherent difficulty in colloquially referring to the subject as "Kim" when the article necessarily deals with two other principals who share the family name "Kim"? ] (]) 02:52, 30 May 2022 (UTC) |
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* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2022-01-08T14:22:21.039801 | DPRK-Army-OF-12.svg --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 14:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC) |
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:Kim by surname only should exclusively refer to ], who is the subject of this article. If there are specific instances that's ambiguous, use the full name. This should be the case with any other bio article, and I don't think such edits would be deemed controversial so it should be free of edit wars, in theory. --] (]) 14:36, 25 July 2022 (UTC) |
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==Edit request== |
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{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}} |
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{{noredirect|Юрий Ким}} ({{langx|ru|Yuri Kim}}; the recorded birth name in the article) redirects here. Please add a hatnote to handle the situation. |
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{{tlx|redirect|Юрий Ким|other people|Yuri Kim (disambiguation)}} |
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{{redirect|Юрий Ким|other people|Yuri Kim (disambiguation)}} |
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-- ] (]) 21:21, 7 June 2022 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> This is English Misplaced Pages not Russian Misplaced Pages, a redirect of Russian title to the English title is not a valid reason for such inclusion. '''<span style="color:#f535aa">—</span> ] <span style="color:#f535aa">(] • ])</span>''' 13:30, 10 June 2022 (UTC) |
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== Typo Fix == |
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In the section Ascension to Power, subheading Initial Career, the last sentence of the second paragraph has a typo. "...indicating that Kim Il-sung '''bight''' have already planned for Jong-il to succeed him as leader." ] (]) 21:21, 31 July 2022 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022 == |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Kim Jong-il|answered=yes}} |
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] (]) 10:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC) |
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Birth date |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ]'''</span></sup>]] 10:38, 11 October 2022 (UTC) |
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== Eternal General Secretary vs. Eternal Chairman == |
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{| class="wikitable" |
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! Method |
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! Eternal General Secretary |
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! Eternal Chairman |
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| Google search |
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{{Ping|TaerkastUA}} What settings are you using for your "cursory Google searches"? Mine return greater results for Eternal General Secretary each time. Even if you search the exact phrases "Eternal General Secretary Kim" and "Eternal Chairman Kim", you still get greater results for the former. </nowiki>.] |
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:bruh ] (]) 06:25, 4 May 2022 (UTC) |
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Eternal General Secretary is the more common posthumous title for Kim Jong-il because the General Secretary of the WPK was a more prominent position than the Chairman of the NDC. Eternal Chairman has always been a secondary title, like how Chairman of the NDC was a secondary title for Kim Jong-il during his lifetime. |
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== "Jin Zhengri" listed at ] == |
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] |
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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect ] and has thus listed it ]. This discussion will occur at ] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC) |
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It's also worth noting that Google Search (i.e. just the general search engine) is a terrible measure because it includes self-published material (including social media), which often copies sites like Misplaced Pages without much thought. "Generalissimo Kim Jong-il" for example returns a significant number of results, but no reliable secondary sources use "Generalissimo" in this manner, nor do any official English sources from the DPRK. An editor on the English Misplaced Pages made the translation themselves and nobody questioned it for years, and now YouTube videos, blogs, and other social media parrot it even though it has never been reliably attributed. <big>]]</big> 00:12, 8 March 2023 (UTC) |
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==Irsenovich== |
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Of the three sources cited for this alleged name, the ''Chosun Ilbo'' is (for once!) the most substantial, presenting an interview with a resident of the Russian city where KIS was stationed. There is no mention of "Soviet records" nor "Irsenovich," and even if the Soviets recorded his name that way for cultural reasons, it wouldn't prove that he was not originally named KJI. The ''Life'' source, retrieved from the Internet Archive, comments only in passing and also without mentioning records. The CNN citation is useless because it provides no date. ] (]) 03:00, 17 April 2022 (UTC) |
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== Move discussion in progress == |
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== Move discussion in progress == |
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There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Yuri Kim (ambassador)#Requested move 25 May 2022 crosspost --> —] 06:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC) |
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There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Kim Jong-un#Requested move 6 April 2023 crosspost --> —] 17:31, 6 April 2023 (UTC) |
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== Infobox Picture change? == |
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== A Kim here, a Kim there, and before long you're talking some real Kim == |
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Does anyone see the inherent difficulty in colloquially referring to the subject as "Kim" when the article necessarily deals with two other principals who share the family name "Kim"? ] (]) 02:52, 30 May 2022 (UTC) |
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Should Jong-Il's picture in the infobox be changed to the posthumous portrait of him which was released after his death? ] (]) 13:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:No, per ]. Kim's official posthumous portrait is an idealised, drawn picture of him. The current portrait of him in the infobox is an actual photograph taken of him while he was alive; as such a photo exists, there is no need to use a drawn picture. <big>]]</big> 21:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC) |
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== Yuri Irsenovich Kim == |
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This the claimed birth name of Kim Jong Il in Russia. Is there any evidence that was his actual birth name? ] (]) 13:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{cquote|{{highlight|Is there any evidence}} that was his actual birth name?}} |
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:Well, there's three sources cited for that claim. Maybe you can look at those first and critique them instead of asking a silly question? <big>]]</big> 23:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2024 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Kim Jong Il|answered=yes}} |
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Replace {{tl|family name hatnote}}, then place with {{tl|family name footnote}} in the lead sentence. ] (]) 12:29, 24 February 2024 (UTC) |
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: ] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> I think it is better to have the visibility at the top of the article. ] (]) 02:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Koryo-saram? == |
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Just realized; can he really be considered a ]? To my understanding, Koryo-saram aren't just Soviet Koreans (of which there are also ], who are often excluded from the Koryo-saram label), they're Koreans who were subjected to the ]. None of the Kim family was subject to this deportation. |
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Is there any reliable sources calling him as such? It doesn't appear that there's any on the article itself. I may just remove altogether for now; please revert and discuss if disagree. ] (]) 08:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC) |
Does anyone see the inherent difficulty in colloquially referring to the subject as "Kim" when the article necessarily deals with two other principals who share the family name "Kim"? rowley (talk) 02:52, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
In the section Ascension to Power, subheading Initial Career, the last sentence of the second paragraph has a typo. "...indicating that Kim Il-sung bight have already planned for Jong-il to succeed him as leader." Alberto996 (talk) 21:21, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Eternal General Secretary is the more common posthumous title for Kim Jong-il because the General Secretary of the WPK was a more prominent position than the Chairman of the NDC. Eternal Chairman has always been a secondary title, like how Chairman of the NDC was a secondary title for Kim Jong-il during his lifetime.
It's also worth noting that Google Search (i.e. just the general search engine) is a terrible measure because it includes self-published material (including social media), which often copies sites like Misplaced Pages without much thought. "Generalissimo Kim Jong-il" for example returns a significant number of results, but no reliable secondary sources use "Generalissimo" in this manner, nor do any official English sources from the DPRK. An editor on the English Misplaced Pages made the translation themselves and nobody questioned it for years, and now YouTube videos, blogs, and other social media parrot it even though it has never been reliably attributed. Yue🌙 00:12, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Is there any reliable sources calling him as such? It doesn't appear that there's any on the article itself. I may just remove altogether for now; please revert and discuss if disagree. toobigtokale (talk) 08:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Referencing and citation: criterion not met
Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: This is English Misplaced Pages not Russian Misplaced Pages, a redirect of Russian title to the English title is not a valid reason for such inclusion. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:30, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Terasail 10:38, 11 October 2022 (UTC)