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== "Announced military support for Israel" in the lede ==
== "]" listed at ] ==
]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 4#John Biden}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 16:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)


This might have been addressed before, but why does the lede mention only that Biden "announced" military support for Israel? This reads as if it was written prior to his administration in unprecedented numbers. If no one objects, I would change it to :
== Biden's role as point person for Ukraine ==


{{green|During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent extensive military aid to Israel, as well as limited humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.}}
The article as currently written ignores this crucial fact.
It is discussed at length here:


While we're at it, I think it's also worth using a couple of words to add that the aid was sent despite allegations of war crimes, if anyone would like to discuss that. ] (]) 14:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/biden-has-proven-track-record-ukraine-what-can-we-expect-his-administration
:It can be argued that as the US has supported Israel since the 1960's its undue to single out Biden. ] (]) 14:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
::I don't think that it's "singling out" Biden because A) , and B) that same year ] (]) 15:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}}, with the swap of "extensive" (from my original proposal) to "an unprecedented amount of", more factual. ] (]) 19:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
::I don't thing "unprecedented" is the correct terminology to use in the lead. While Biden has been a strong supporter for high levels of military aid, there have been similar meausres of support by prior administrations such as that of ] in the ]. ] (]) 22:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Never this much in a single year, though, which I think is quite notable. And IMO a factual stat is more descriptive + neutral than just something like "large", "extensive" ] (]) 13:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:Disagree with this. The United States has been strongly supporting Israel for many decades. To imply that this is a Biden creation is not neutral. ] (]) 22:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
::@] Please explain how the sentence implies that this is a "Biden creation"? It states that the amount of military aid sent by the Biden administration since the war started is a record, which is true, as you can read for yourself. ] (]) 15:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:::"Unprecedented" is hyperbolic language that suggests there is something out-of-the-ordinary about the Biden administration's support of Israel. ] (]) 22:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm entirely fine with "record amount" if that makes it clearer, but this ''is'' the largest amount of military aid ever sent to Israel by the US in a year. Clearly Biden isn't the first president to support Israel; my proposed sentence isn't saying that either. But the aid he's sent during this war is notable – not only statistically but because of human rights concerns – which is why it's been a front-page news subject for more than a year. ] (]) 09:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
:Update: I changed the "announced" part since no one objected to that part. Would anyone like to add something about "record amount"? I'd be interested in an RfC to see where people stand on this ] (]) 14:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::I would like to ask why do you believe that it is necessary to indicate that he sent '''limited''' humanitarian aid to Gaza. Is there a consensus of sources that agree that the amount of humanitarian aid is limited? I agree that it probably is not enough, but it seems to me that calling it limited, especially without sources is ]. ] (]) 02:53, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|WikiFouf}} No reply?--] (]) 15:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Sorry, wasn't very active recently. US failure in getting humanitarian aid into Gaza has been a major news topic for the past year: see floating pier saga, air dropping, 30-day ultimatum, etc. All of these failures are related to Israel limiting aid into Gaza. In any case, the military aid sent to Israel far outweighs the humanitarian aid to Gaza, so putting them side by side in the same sentence without qualifiers creates false balance imo. ] (]) 15:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::While I agree that the humanitarian aid is probably insufficient, I still find it to be a violation of ] to call it limited. ] (]) 19:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::It's literally limited, as I explained ] (]) 08:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{u|WikiFouf}} So once again, do you have any sources?--] (]) 14:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Don't have access to my computer at the moment, I can put sources in a couple of days. You can google the examples I've mentioned though, as I said it's been a big news topic ] (]) 14:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@] First, for some perspective, the Biden admin has sent in military aid to Israel in a year, a historical record, and in humanitarian aid to Palestinians in the same period. Mentioning both forms of aid side by side without qualifiers is dishonest IMHO. Now here's a variety of sources talking how the humanitarian aid has been limited:
::::::::* 11/24 : (Associated Press)
::::::::* 11/24 : (TIME)
::::::::* 10/24 : (NBC News)
::::::::* 10/24 : (BBC)
::::::::* 09/24 : (ProPublica)
::::::::* 07/24 : (Economist)
::::::::* 07/24 : (PBS)
::::::::* 06/24 : (New York Times)
::::::::* 05/24 : (Reuters)
::::::::* 03/24 : (Washington Post)
::::::::* 02/24 : (VOA)
::::::::* 02/24 : (CNN)
::::::::* 01/24 : (Guardian)
::::::::] (]) 13:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::{{re|WikiFouf}} Most of these sources do not say that the Biden administration is sending a limited amount of aid to Gaza, but that limited aid is actually getting into Gaza, mainly due to obstruction by the Israeli government, right-wing protestors and weather. ] (]) 16:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::@] I've been interpreting it in the literal sense, as in the amount of aid is literally (being) limited; not that it's a limited amount as in "a small amount". I do agree with you that the term is not ideal and can lead to confusion, but it's a hard situation to condense properly in just a couple of words. I'm really against putting "military" and "humanitarian aid" side by side just like that, for the reasons I explained. But I'm also not sure that the humanitarian aid saga is something worth dedicating more than a couple of words to. Suggestions? ] (]) 20:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{U|WikiFouf}} If you also find the term to be too contentious, we can just remove the entire clause about sending humanitarian aid to Palestine, at least until a consensus can be found. We can also try an RFC. ] (]) 15:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::@] I'm fine with that, I'll remove it rn. I was already thinking an RFC could be useful to decide how to include the war in the lede in general, so I'm all for it ] (]) 21:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)


== NGO funding revert ==
I don't know the best way to integrate this fact into the article.
I hope somebody more proficient at editing can do that. ] (]) 16:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)


Hi @], I noticed that you reverted my edit about the Biden administration withholding funding from an NGO over its support for a ceasefire in Gaza. I wanted to present my reasoning for including this material on the Joe Biden page and give you a chance to explain your revert, as well as give other editors a chance to weigh in.
:That is probably best suited at ] or ], rather than the article about his entire life. ] (]) 16:55, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
:Its also a blog, so might not meet RS criteria. ] (]) 17:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
::For another reference, see
::"What Will Ukraine Do Without Uncle Joe?
::Vice President Joe Biden led the administration’s support of Ukraine.
::But Kiev worries whether the next White House will have its back as Putin looks to ramp up pressure."
::https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/30/what-will-ukraine-do-without-joe-biden-putin-war-kiev-clinton-trump/
"No one in the U.S. government has wielded more influence over Ukraine than Vice President Joe Biden.
As the Obama administration’s point person on Ukraine policy..."
] (]) 13:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:Responding to the comments above:
: 1, Biden being Obama's point person for Ukraine preceded by years Biden's presidency.
:2. The. blog in which this was posted is not a mere personal blog, but that of the ] ] (]) 09:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::Then that would be part of ] if Obama picked Biden as his point person. It could also be described at Biden's foreign policy article(since his prior experience likely helped form his policies) ] (]) 09:31, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The article on Biden as currently written contains this:
:::"Biden visited Iraq about every two months, becoming the administration's point man in delivering messages to Iraqi leadership about expected progress there."
:::Your reluctance to mentioning Biden's analogous role with regard to Ukraine is utterly bizarre. ] (]) 09:55, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::He has visited Ukraine every two months? ] (]) 10:06, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::The analogy is that he was point person with respect to both Iraq and Ukraine. ] (]) 10:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::Except this makes them different, so the analogy does not work. If not for your instance over the use of this blog you might have relasied that one of the sources were already used for the Iraq claim also includes Afghanistan in the same statement "Besides making Biden his point man on Iraq and Afghanistan". ] (]) 10:27, 24 September 2024 (UTC)


I believe the material meets the criteria for notability, having been covered by ], a ] source, as well as by ] subsidiary ]. The article by The Intercept which I cited explains the relevance of this decision, connecting it to Republican attacks on the organization and the EPA at large and to H.R. 9495 gaining traction in Congress. For this reason, I felt the material was better suited to this page than a page such as ], since the decision intersects with domestic as well as foreign policy and is relevant to Biden's legacy vis-a-vis the proposed policies of the incoming Trump administration. I am open to including more information explaining the relevancy in a future edit, if that would not strengthen your perception that the material is being given undue coverage. That being said, I think the evidence clearly shows that the due weight of this material is not zero.
:One blog's opinion. Not terribly important. ] (]) 21:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)


I don't think the language I used in my edit violates NPOV; it describes a dispute without engaging in it. I am open to modifying the way we describe the dispute, however I would note that there is not another significant perspective to describe as the Biden administration has not denied or responded to the assertion that the funding was revoked for the reason The Intercept and CJA provide.
What IS a point person? ] (]) 00:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)


Let me know what you think, I would like to reach a compromise. ] (]) 00:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
== Efn footnotes start at ? ==


:The full content of the edit was {{tq|In November 2024, the Biden administration withheld federal funding from ], a move which CJA and others connected to its support for a ceasefire in Gaza.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Lacy |first=Akela |date=2024-11-29 |title=Biden Makes His Own Attack on Nonprofit Over Palestine |url=https://theintercept.com/2024/11/29/biden-climate-funding-palestine/ |access-date=2024-11-30 |website=The Intercept |language=en-US}}</ref>}} It was only sourced with The Intercept, not Politico. The Intercept is reliable, but biased to the point that we shouldn't base an edit like this on them. That it was sourced only to The Intercept, that the group "and others" (that seems like ]) "connected" the withholding of funding to Gaza, and your edit did not include anything from the Biden administration is why I said this is POV. Since this was also the "Biden administration" doing it and not Biden himself is why I think it's UNDUE. This is a biography of the man's entire life. The article on his presidency, ], will get more granular on these four years.
Does anyone know why this is? It's supposed to start at right? According to my command+f, there is no tag on this page. Other pages do not seem to have this issue. ] (]) 21:22, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
:{{reflist-talk}} &ndash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;(]) 00:29, 1 December 2024 (UTC)


:Okay, that makes sense. ] seems like a more appropriate place for it. I will be sure to attribute to The Intercept instead of saying others when adding it there. Intercept credits E&E (Politico) as first reporting the issue in their article, but I can cite that source separately as well. Thanks! ] (]) 01:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
:Notes can be found at the bottom of the page under the section "Notes". There's an "a" at the start of that list. ] (]) 03:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

== Incumbent, until Jan 20, 2025 ==

Please oh please. When we know who Biden's successor-to-be is. Let's <u>not</u> change "Incumbent" to "Outgoing" in Biden's infobox. ] (]) 20:28, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:Why not, he will be whoever it is. ] (]) 20:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::He's still the incumbent until he leaves office. So let's not do that "outgoing" stuff. ] (]) 20:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:At some point, we added Biden to the Trump infobox well before January 20 as elected successor or some such. Probably we should do the same here. The election has been called and there doesn't seem to be any dispute about the outcome. ] (]) 13:58, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
::No we didn't. We waited until Biden took office. ] (]) 13:59, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

== Comparison to Benjamin Harrison ==

Apologies if this is pedantic but I can't edit the article, but is this comparison to Benjamin Harrison truly necessary? – "''This will give Biden the distinction of being the second president whose predecessor and successor are the same person, after Benjamin Harrison, whose predecessor and successor were Grover Cleveland.''" Just seems to take up space in the top of the article for no real reason other than being an interesting fun fact, but it doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the article. I'd consider the same for the ] article, where he is compared to Grover Cleveland. I think if something happens twice (in this case, a non-consecutive term), then it's not really a notable thing to happen. ] (]) 22:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

:Agree, takes way too much space for the value of the information. I think it's notable enough for Trump's lede, but not this one, at least not using this much text. ] (]) 14:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
::I removed it. &ndash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;(]) 14:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

== "Announced military support for Israel" in the lede ==

This might have been addressed before, but why does the lede mention only that Biden "announced" military support for Israel? This reads as if it was written prior to his administration in unprecedented numbers. If no one objects, I would change it to :

{{green|During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent extensive military aid to Israel, as well as limited humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.}}

While we're at it, I think it's also worth using a couple of words to add that the aid was sent despite allegations of war crimes, if anyone would like to discuss that. ] (]) 14:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:It can be argued that as the US has supported Israel since the 1960's its undue to single out Biden. ] (]) 14:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
::I don't think that it's "singling out" Biden because A) , and B) that same year ] (]) 15:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:48, 19 December 2024

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    Presidency (2021–present) 133 197,888
    Inauguration 6,205 6,205
    First 100 days 13,050 13,050
    Domestic policy 9,091 75,432
    Economy 19,261 19,261
    Judiciary 5,670 5,670
    Infrastructure and climate 14,608 14,608
    Immigration 11,541 11,541
    Pardons and commutations 3,460 3,460
    Pardon of Hunter Biden 5,366 5,366
    2022 elections 6,435 6,435
    Foreign policy 7,782 59,738
    Withdrawal from Afghanistan 11,473 11,473
    Russian invasion of Ukraine 12,113 12,113
    China affairs 10,227 10,227
    Israel–Hamas war 14,104 14,104
    NATO enlargement 4,039 4,039
    Investigations 23 13,988
    Retention of classified documents 5,768 5,768
    Business activities 8,197 8,197
    Age and health concerns 9,001 9,001
    2024 presidential campaign 20,341 20,341
    Political positions 30,857 30,857
    Public image 10,788 20,337
    Job approval 8,075 8,075
    Media depictions 1,474 1,474
    See also 238 238
    Notes 138 138
    References 17 1,680
    Citations 34 34
    Works cited 1,629 1,629
    Further reading 1,430 1,430
    External links 119 10,928
    Official 440 440
    Other 10,369 10,369
    Total 469,983 469,983

    Current consensus

    NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:
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    01. In the lead section, mention that Biden is the oldest president. (RfC February 2021)

    02. There is no consensus on including a subsection about gaffes. (RfC March 2021)

    03. The infobox is shortened. (RfC February 2021)

    04. The lead image is the official 2021 White House portrait. (January 2021, April 2021)

    05. The lead image's caption is Official portrait, 2021. (April 2021)

    06. In the lead sentence, use who is as opposed to serving as when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

    07. In the lead sentence, use 46th and current as opposed to just 46th when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

    08. In the lead section, do not mention Biden's building of a port to facilitate American aid to Palestinians. (RfC June 2024)

    "Announced military support for Israel" in the lede

    This might have been addressed before, but why does the lede mention only that Biden "announced" military support for Israel? This reads as if it was written prior to his administration actually sending the military aid in unprecedented numbers. If no one objects, I would change it to :

    During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent extensive military aid to Israel, as well as limited humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.

    While we're at it, I think it's also worth using a couple of words to add that the aid was sent despite allegations of war crimes, if anyone would like to discuss that. WikiFouf (talk) 14:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

    It can be argued that as the US has supported Israel since the 1960's its undue to single out Biden. Slatersteven (talk) 14:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
    I don't think that it's "singling out" Biden because A) no administration has ever sent Israel this much aid in a year, and B) that same year was the deadliest of the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict WikiFouf (talk) 15:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
     Done, with the swap of "extensive" (from my original proposal) to "an unprecedented amount of", more factual. WikiFouf (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
    I don't thing "unprecedented" is the correct terminology to use in the lead. While Biden has been a strong supporter for high levels of military aid, there have been similar meausres of support by prior administrations such as that of Operation Nickel Grass in the Yom Kippur War. LosPajaros (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
    Never this much in a single year, though, which I think is quite notable. And IMO a factual stat is more descriptive + neutral than just something like "large", "extensive" WikiFouf (talk) 13:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
    Disagree with this. The United States has been strongly supporting Israel for many decades. To imply that this is a Biden creation is not neutral. Esterau16 (talk) 22:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    @Esterau16 Please explain how the sentence implies that this is a "Biden creation"? It states that the amount of military aid sent by the Biden administration since the war started is a record, which is true, as you can read for yourself. WikiFouf (talk) 15:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    "Unprecedented" is hyperbolic language that suggests there is something out-of-the-ordinary about the Biden administration's support of Israel. Zaathras (talk) 22:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    I'm entirely fine with "record amount" if that makes it clearer, but this is the largest amount of military aid ever sent to Israel by the US in a year. Clearly Biden isn't the first president to support Israel; my proposed sentence isn't saying that either. But the aid he's sent during this war is notable – not only statistically but because of human rights concerns – which is why it's been a front-page news subject for more than a year. WikiFouf (talk) 09:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
    Update: I changed the "announced" part since no one objected to that part. Would anyone like to add something about "record amount"? I'd be interested in an RfC to see where people stand on this WikiFouf (talk) 14:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
    I would like to ask why do you believe that it is necessary to indicate that he sent limited humanitarian aid to Gaza. Is there a consensus of sources that agree that the amount of humanitarian aid is limited? I agree that it probably is not enough, but it seems to me that calling it limited, especially without sources is pushing a POV. DeathTrain (talk) 02:53, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
    WikiFouf No reply?--DeathTrain (talk) 15:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
    Sorry, wasn't very active recently. US failure in getting humanitarian aid into Gaza has been a major news topic for the past year: see floating pier saga, air dropping, 30-day ultimatum, etc. All of these failures are related to Israel limiting aid into Gaza. In any case, the military aid sent to Israel far outweighs the humanitarian aid to Gaza, so putting them side by side in the same sentence without qualifiers creates false balance imo. WikiFouf (talk) 15:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
    While I agree that the humanitarian aid is probably insufficient, I still find it to be a violation of WP:NPOV to call it limited. DeathTrain (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
    It's literally limited, as I explained WikiFouf (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
    WikiFouf So once again, do you have any sources?--DeathTrain (talk) 14:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
    Don't have access to my computer at the moment, I can put sources in a couple of days. You can google the examples I've mentioned though, as I said it's been a big news topic WikiFouf (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DeathTrain First, for some perspective, the Biden admin has sent $17.9 billion in military aid to Israel in a year, a historical record, and $1.2 billion in humanitarian aid to Palestinians in the same period. Mentioning both forms of aid side by side without qualifiers is dishonest IMHO. Now here's a variety of sources talking how the humanitarian aid has been limited:
    WikiFouf (talk) 13:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
    @WikiFouf: Most of these sources do not say that the Biden administration is sending a limited amount of aid to Gaza, but that limited aid is actually getting into Gaza, mainly due to obstruction by the Israeli government, right-wing protestors and weather. DeathTrain (talk) 16:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DeathTrain I've been interpreting it in the literal sense, as in the amount of aid is literally (being) limited; not that it's a limited amount as in "a small amount". I do agree with you that the term is not ideal and can lead to confusion, but it's a hard situation to condense properly in just a couple of words. I'm really against putting "military" and "humanitarian aid" side by side just like that, for the reasons I explained. But I'm also not sure that the humanitarian aid saga is something worth dedicating more than a couple of words to. Suggestions? WikiFouf (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    WikiFouf If you also find the term to be too contentious, we can just remove the entire clause about sending humanitarian aid to Palestine, at least until a consensus can be found. We can also try an RFC. DeathTrain (talk) 15:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DeathTrain I'm fine with that, I'll remove it rn. I was already thinking an RFC could be useful to decide how to include the war in the lede in general, so I'm all for it WikiFouf (talk) 21:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

    NGO funding revert

    Hi @Muboshgu, I noticed that you reverted my edit about the Biden administration withholding funding from an NGO over its support for a ceasefire in Gaza. I wanted to present my reasoning for including this material on the Joe Biden page and give you a chance to explain your revert, as well as give other editors a chance to weigh in.

    I believe the material meets the criteria for notability, having been covered by The Intercept, a WP:GREL source, as well as by Politico subsidiary E&E News. The article by The Intercept which I cited explains the relevance of this decision, connecting it to Republican attacks on the organization and the EPA at large and to H.R. 9495 gaining traction in Congress. For this reason, I felt the material was better suited to this page than a page such as United States support for Israel in the Israel–Hamas war, since the decision intersects with domestic as well as foreign policy and is relevant to Biden's legacy vis-a-vis the proposed policies of the incoming Trump administration. I am open to including more information explaining the relevancy in a future edit, if that would not strengthen your perception that the material is being given undue coverage. That being said, I think the evidence clearly shows that the due weight of this material is not zero.

    I don't think the language I used in my edit violates NPOV; it describes a dispute without engaging in it. I am open to modifying the way we describe the dispute, however I would note that there is not another significant perspective to describe as the Biden administration has not denied or responded to the assertion that the funding was revoked for the reason The Intercept and CJA provide.

    Let me know what you think, I would like to reach a compromise. Unbandito (talk) 00:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

    The full content of the edit was In November 2024, the Biden administration withheld federal funding from Climate Justice Alliance, a move which CJA and others connected to its support for a ceasefire in Gaza. It was only sourced with The Intercept, not Politico. The Intercept is reliable, but biased to the point that we shouldn't base an edit like this on them. That it was sourced only to The Intercept, that the group "and others" (that seems like WP:WEASEL) "connected" the withholding of funding to Gaza, and your edit did not include anything from the Biden administration is why I said this is POV. Since this was also the "Biden administration" doing it and not Biden himself is why I think it's UNDUE. This is a biography of the man's entire life. The article on his presidency, Presidency of Joe Biden, will get more granular on these four years.

    References

    1. Lacy, Akela (2024-11-29). "Biden Makes His Own Attack on Nonprofit Over Palestine". The Intercept. Retrieved 2024-11-30.

    – Muboshgu (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

    Okay, that makes sense. Presidency of Joe Biden seems like a more appropriate place for it. I will be sure to attribute to The Intercept instead of saying others when adding it there. Intercept credits E&E (Politico) as first reporting the issue in their article, but I can cite that source separately as well. Thanks! Unbandito (talk) 01:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
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