| Revision as of 00:18, 15 February 2005 editJoy (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators143,630 edits Austro-Hungarian Empire etc← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 00:51, 20 December 2024 edit undoClueBot III (talk | contribs)Bots1,373,140 editsm Archiving 1 discussion to Talk:Austria-Hungary/Archive 8. (BOT) |
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==Flag of Austria-Hungary== |
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The flag shown in the article is NOT the flag of Austria-Hungary. It is the common merchant ensign (well, not entirely, two coat of arms have to be added). The Austrian-Hungarian monarchy didn't have a common national flag. Each of the two entities had their own one. There was just a common merchant, marine and war ensign (see for further details) ] 19:42, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC) |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|1= |
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{{WikiProject Former countries|AH-taskforce=yes|AH-taskforce-importance=Top|structureneeded=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject European history|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Eastern Europe|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Austria|importance=High|AH-taskforce=yes|AHImp=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Hungary|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Croatia|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Czech Republic|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Germany|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Serbia|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Slovenia|importance=High}} |
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}} |
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{{Annual readership}} |
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{{old move|date=21 July 2023|destination=Austria–Hungary|result=no consensus|link=Special:Permalink/1167583161#Requested move 21 July 2023}} |
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:We've had some confusion about the flag, so I'm glad you have helped clarify this. Do you think that the website you refer to would allow us to use their flags? |
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<!--2160/24 = 90 days ~ 3 months--> |
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: ] 20:49, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC) |
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{{Nutshell|title=Flags|Austria-Hungary had no official flag and the consensus, established over a number of years, is not to display any flags in the infobox. Any attempt to overturn this would need to take account of the past discussions: |
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== Language of the article == |
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The state of English in this article is frequently poor. I see the article contains no facility to edit, which I would gladly do but cannot, therefore I would recommend that an educated, fluent native speaker of standard English checks the article thoroughly and makes the required amendments. One silly example 'The population was composed by about 2500 people ...' What on earth is 'was composed by'? The author means, of course, 'was composed of' or 'comprised'. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:: Fwiw, I don't know either way, but suggests that design was also used as a civil ensign… — ] 21:26, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC) |
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== The current way the flag of Austria-Hungary is shown, as of 26/5/2024 == |
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The book ''Österreich-Ungarn, Die Donaumonarchie in historischen Dokumenten, Salzburg 1984.'' (Austria-Hungary, The Danube Monarchy in historical documents) written by Alexander Sixtus von Reden states the following (translated from German): ''Common flags of both states (i.e. the Danube monarchy) were the red-white-red war and naval flag with a crowned shield of arms added (in use since 1786)'' (example: '''War Ensign of 1880-1915 (Kriegsflagge))''' in ) ''The common merchant flag is a combination of the war flag and the Hungarian flag supplemented with the small Hungarian coat of arms'' (example: '''Merchant Ensign, 1869-1918''' in ). |
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While I appreciate the dedication to accuracy (and covering all of your bases,) whoever made the edit included the "military standard" of Austria-Hungary, unless I am mistaken, when they intended to include the flag of the Emperor and Empress. Furthermore, I don't believe showing the flag of the Emperor and Empress, or a military standard if that's what they wanted to do, is needed at all. The way I personally would represent Austria-Hungary in flags accurately would be to show the black and yellow Habsburg banner, over the flag of the Kingdom of Hungary, which is over the flag of the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia. If you see the way the article ] showcases both the flag of Hungary and Croatia, I would love to show this in a similar manner, just with 3 flags as the law in Transleithania required the flag of Hungary and Croatia be alongside each other or otherwise represented in the Hungarian diet and House of Magnates. If that is not possible, or not preferential, I would suggest merely showing the Habsburg banner of black and yellow and the "civil" flag of Hungary, without any coat of arms, as this was a common combination of flags to be flown contemporarily in the empire. Of course I would prefer flying the 3 flags, as by Transleithanian law Croatia-Slavonia had to be represented, and thus the flag of Hungary cannot suffice. If these changes cannot be made, I just suggest reverting back to showing the "see also ]," as it worked and prevented any discourse over it for the time it existed. Edit: It appears that it has been reverted back to the "see also ]." so this talk is essentially pointless unless you want to implement the changes I suggested. ] (]) 01:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC) |
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In the German language Misplaced Pages we had a similar discussion (]). |
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:The rumored flag is just the civil ensign. The page can just use the Austrian Empire flag and move on. ] (]) 12:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
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Unfortunately, I don't think that we can use the flags of and under the GNU-FDL(see their copyright statements). ] 23:54, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC) |
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== Multiple flags == |
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Since the flag shown in the article is wrong, I think we should remove it. ] 12:19, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
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What if we add te flags of the multiple countries, such as Cisleithania, Hungary. Croatia-Slavonia, and Bosnia-Herzegovina, while keeping the page about the flags, to explain it in more detail. ] (]) 17:37, 5 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Is it o.k. when I remove the flag in 4 days? ] 22:45, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
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:Unnecessary clutter in the infobox. We have a separate page that's even prominently linked. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 17:38, 5 October 2024 (UTC) |
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I'll just remove it today. ] 18:15, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC) |
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== Status of the Slovene language (1882) == |
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== Absolute Monarch? == |
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"Beginning in 1882, there was a Slovene majority in the Diet of Carniola and in the capital ]; they replaced German with Slovene as their primary official language." |
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''Those two were linked by a government under a monarch wielding, in theory, absolute power, although in practice the power of the monarch was limited. The monarch’s common government was responsible for the army, navy, foreign policy, and the customs union.'' |
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Are there any sources for that? I don't seem to find anything on that, also not in other languages on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 20:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC) |
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How accurate is the claim that the dual monarch held absolute power? What I've read elsewhere suggested that the monarch did in fact wield absolute power as Emperor of Austria, having authority (which was exercised on occasion) to suspend constitutional government and make law as an autocrat, his powers as King of Hungary were more limited by the Diet. ] 17:21, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
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== I made a flag == |
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:Depends on what you mean by absolute power. In theory he did have the power to suspend the constitution and pass unilateral decrees. However, he almost always consulted fairly widely and respected the wishes of regional diets and politicians in both Hungary and Cisleithania because he knew that his powerbase was increasingly fragile. He wanted to ensure continued loyalty from the nationalities, many of whom saw him as their "defender" to some extent. I think that fits the bill for not using his absolute power in practice. |
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I made a flag that is non-official, can I add it? ] (]) 15:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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] 20:42, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC) |
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:No, sorry. ] (<span style="font-variant:small-caps">]</span>) 15:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== National anthem == |
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The national anthem of Austria-Hungary was not ]. It had the same melody but different lyrics (''Gott erhalte, Gott beschütze, unsern Kaiser, unser Land...''). Additionally, I am not quite sure if the anthem was also the national anthem of the Hungarian part of Austria-Hungary. I try to find out. ] 10:39, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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By the way, that's the German text of the anthem since 1854: |
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1. Gott erhalte, Gott beschütze |
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Unsern Kaiser, unser Land! |
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Mächtig durch des Glaubens Stütze, |
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Führ' er uns mit weiser Hand! |
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Laßt uns seiner Väter Krone |
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Schirmen wider jeden Feind! |
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|: Innig bleibt mit Hapsburgs Throne |
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Österreichs Geschick vereint! :| |
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2. Fromm und bieder, wahr und offen |
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Laßt für Recht und Pflicht uns stehn; |
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Laßt, wenns gilt, mit frohem Hoffen |
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Mutvoll in den Kampf uns gehn |
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Eingedenk der Lorbeerreiser |
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Die das Heer so oft sich wand |
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|: Gut und Blut für unsern Kaiser, |
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Gut und Blut fürs Vaterland! :| |
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3. Was der Bürger Fleiß geschaffen |
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Schütze treu des Kaisers Kraft; |
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Mit des Geistes heitren Waffen |
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Siege Kunst und Wissenschaft! |
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Segen sei dem Land beschieden |
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Und sein Ruhm dem Segen gleich; |
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|: Gottes Sonne strahl' in Frieden |
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Auf ein glücklich Österreich! |
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4. Laßt uns fest zusammenhalten, |
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In der Eintracht liegt die Macht; |
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Mit vereinter Kräfte Walten |
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Wird das Schwere leicht vollbracht, |
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Laßt uns Eins durch Brüderbande |
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Gleichem Ziel entgegengehn |
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|: Heil dem Kaiser, Heil dem Lande, |
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Österreich wird ewig stehn! :| |
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5.An des Kaisers Seite waltet, |
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Ihm verwandt durch Stamm und Sinn, |
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Reich an Reiz, der nie veraltet, |
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Uns're holde Kaiserin. |
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Was als Glück zu höchst gepriesen |
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Ström' auf sie der Himmel aus: |
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|: Heil Franz Josef, Heil Elisen, |
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Segen Habsburgs ganzem Haus! :| |
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6.Heil auch Öst'reichs Kaisersohne, |
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Froher Zukunft Unterpfand, |
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Seiner Eltern Freud' und Wonne, |
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Rudolf tönt's im ganzen Land, |
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Unsern Kronprinz Gott behüte, |
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Segne und beglücke ihn, |
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|: Von der ersten Jugendblüthe |
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Bis in fernste Zeiten hin. :| |
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] 10:39, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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== Austro-Hungarian Empire etc == |
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I've moved the links to the term ']' to that page which I've disambiguated. People often use this terminology for the country prior to 1867. Suggestions for further link consolidation are welcome... --] 00:18, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) |
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The state of English in this article is frequently poor. I see the article contains no facility to edit, which I would gladly do but cannot, therefore I would recommend that an educated, fluent native speaker of standard English checks the article thoroughly and makes the required amendments. One silly example 'The population was composed by about 2500 people ...' What on earth is 'was composed by'? The author means, of course, 'was composed of' or 'comprised'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.10.233 (talk) 22:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
While I appreciate the dedication to accuracy (and covering all of your bases,) whoever made the edit included the "military standard" of Austria-Hungary, unless I am mistaken, when they intended to include the flag of the Emperor and Empress. Furthermore, I don't believe showing the flag of the Emperor and Empress, or a military standard if that's what they wanted to do, is needed at all. The way I personally would represent Austria-Hungary in flags accurately would be to show the black and yellow Habsburg banner, over the flag of the Kingdom of Hungary, which is over the flag of the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia. If you see the way the article Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen showcases both the flag of Hungary and Croatia, I would love to show this in a similar manner, just with 3 flags as the law in Transleithania required the flag of Hungary and Croatia be alongside each other or otherwise represented in the Hungarian diet and House of Magnates. If that is not possible, or not preferential, I would suggest merely showing the Habsburg banner of black and yellow and the "civil" flag of Hungary, without any coat of arms, as this was a common combination of flags to be flown contemporarily in the empire. Of course I would prefer flying the 3 flags, as by Transleithanian law Croatia-Slavonia had to be represented, and thus the flag of Hungary cannot suffice. If these changes cannot be made, I just suggest reverting back to showing the "see also Flags of Austria-Hungary," as it worked and prevented any discourse over it for the time it existed. Edit: It appears that it has been reverted back to the "see also Flags of Austria-Hungary." so this talk is essentially pointless unless you want to implement the changes I suggested. Hestatus24 (talk) 01:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
What if we add te flags of the multiple countries, such as Cisleithania, Hungary. Croatia-Slavonia, and Bosnia-Herzegovina, while keeping the page about the flags, to explain it in more detail. Masachiku (talk) 17:37, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
"Beginning in 1882, there was a Slovene majority in the Diet of Carniola and in the capital Laibach (Ljubljana); they replaced German with Slovene as their primary official language."
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
