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Revision as of 22:57, 28 May 2023 edit108.41.98.105 (talk) →Textual evidence shows that it could not have been produced prior to 1901: == The 1934 USA "expanded edition" ==← Previous edit Latest revision as of 03:53, 21 December 2024 edit undoGrumpylawnchair (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers5,449 edits Restored revision 1264225712 by Jellyfish (talk): Disruptive editingTags: Twinkle Undo 
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{{Press
|author = Ohad Merlin
|title = Misplaced Pages in Arabic: A hotbed for bigotry, misinformation, and bias - investigative report
|date = November 3, 2024
|org = ]
|url = https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-827351
|lang =
|quote = Thus reads the first paragraph of Arabic Misplaced Pages's entry of one of the most famous and vile blood libels of history, purposely leaving room for the thought that the forged work is, in fact, "leaked" and "real." For comparison, the first paragraph of the parallel English entry stresses that the Protocols are "a fabricated text"; the German version focuses on its antisemitic nature and the fact that it's based on fictional characters; the French entry calls it "a text invented from scratch" and a forgery; and the Persian entry deems it "a fake and anti-Semitic document."
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|accessdate = November 4, 2024
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== Strange passage here: == == Incorrect change ==

The passage beginning with ''According to ], the modern myth of a world-wide conspiracy by Jews has its earliest precursor in a work written by a Jesuit priest,'' is odd - all respect to Norman Cohn, but how can the modern Western myth of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy be rooted in the work of a Jesuit Priest who lived in 1800, when over 500 years earlier, Jews across Europe were accused of poisoning wells with the Black Death and slaughtered en-masse? ''(Dorsey Armstrong, The Black Death: The World's Most Devastating Plague'')

I can understand an argument that this was not worldwide, but localized to Europe, but even the myth of a Jewish worldwide conspiracy is largely a Western conspiracy theory rooted predominantly in European/Western culture. All of this is to say; I don't think Cohn is correct, and the statement is a strange one to state so authoritatively. There is even a Misplaced Pages article about the mass-pogroms , which spread across the Catholic world and were incited by a conspiracy theory surrounding Jews and the poisoning of the city wells. ] (]) 23:10, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

: As the paragraph states, the priest in question (Barruel) did ''not'' attribute his conspiracy to the Jews. The only Jewish connection was a letter written ''to'' Barruel by "Simonini" (perhaps not a real name) complaining that Barruel did not include the Jews in his conspiracy. So it was Simonini and not Barruel who proposed a conspiracy by Jews and only in a private letter. Moreover, there is no evidence whatever of a connection between this affair and the "Protocols". So I believe this paragraph is of dubious value to the article. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
::I've removed the passage unless there's any demonstrable value to reinstating it - even Cohn's quote supposedly tying the private letter to the Protocols is ''highly'' suspect, since the essential gist of what Cohn seems to be saying is, 'This is one of the earliest examples I can find of someone mentioning a Jewish conspiracy'. ] (]) 20:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

== Textual evidence shows that it could not have been produced prior to 1901 ==


{{To|Ogress}} You created "Cesare G. De Michelis argues that it was manufactured in the months after the First Zionist Congress in September 1902" by modifying existing text. The First Zionist Congress was in 1897, not 1902, moreover De Michelis does not argue that. Per the citation at the end of the sentence, De Michelis is referring to a different "Pan-Russian Zionist Congress" held in that month. Though it is true that some other authors propose the document was written soon after the First Zionist Congress, that belongs to the theory that it was written in France, a theory now largely discredited. De Michelis and others who specialise on it believe it is a Russian production that contains internal evidence it was written no earlier than 1901. Falk's book claims that it was a production of the Russian Orthodox Church and published first in 1905, the first of which is a fringe claim and the second is objectively wrong. Falk also bizarrely claims that the work he says was published in 1905 was one of the causes of the ] that happened in 1903! We should discard that book as a source. Bronner's book also has glaring errors, see ] for examples. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
This very specific claim, with a very specific date, is made with no citation at all. Further in the article there are sections comparing the text with earlier works, but nothing (so far as I can ascertain) about this 1901 date. Where does this come from, and what is the evidence for this as an earliest date? ] (]) 12:16, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
:{{to|Zero0000}} Ok! Make sure you edit the ] page; that is where I got the cites from! They're even in the intro there. ] 13:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)


== Is the Dewey decimal actually 109? ==
:The original insertion happened in 2014. The editor has not been around since 2015. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:44, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
: I added a source and did some rewording. It comes right out of De Michelis around the page which was cited for the following sentence. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 15:01, 3 April 2023 (UTC)


It seems like a troll edit based off the expelled from 109 countries inside joke thing. If it isn’t a coincidence, could we get a footnote?
== The 1934 USA "expanded edition" ==
Edit: also could be a pun on “Jewy” “Jewry” “Jew-y”
This edition is 299 pages, not 300 pages as the article currently says.
] (]) 17:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)


== The Secrets of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai ==
== FBI-vault dossier ==


I was just reading the 'The Secrets of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai' (https://en.wikipedia.org/The_Secrets_of_Rabbi_Simon_ben_Yohai) and this document sounds a lot like the 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion'. In in, the jews lay out their plan to destroy "Edom" (Rome) though subversion. First, they would weaponize Ismael (Arabs) to attack Edom and then bringing in "Four Arms" (Chaturbhuja in Hindusim. Many Hindu deities are depicted with four arms) to finish the job after the Aabs weakened Edom. Some may argue that this is playing out today in the west. In the book 'Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World' (1977) by the historians Patricia Crone and Michael Cook they postulate that this document was the manuscript for Islam. Indeed, the leader of "Ismael" the Arabs is described as a redheaded warlord. I have read the claim that Allah and Muhammad were parodies of Attila the Hun and his uncle Ruglia waging war against Rome because the jews wanted the Arabs to wage war against Eastern Rome (Byzantine). My point here is that there are documents that outline a jewish conspiracy to destroy Edom even two thousand years ago, why is it unfathomable that the Protocols was simply an updated 'The Secrets of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai'?
The ] has historic documents pertaining to the Protocols and I think it merits inclusion in the external links section as per ]. ... ] (]) 05:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:53, 21 December 2024

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Incorrect change

To editor Ogress: You created "Cesare G. De Michelis argues that it was manufactured in the months after the First Zionist Congress in September 1902" by modifying existing text. The First Zionist Congress was in 1897, not 1902, moreover De Michelis does not argue that. Per the citation at the end of the sentence, De Michelis is referring to a different "Pan-Russian Zionist Congress" held in that month. Though it is true that some other authors propose the document was written soon after the First Zionist Congress, that belongs to the theory that it was written in France, a theory now largely discredited. De Michelis and others who specialise on it believe it is a Russian production that contains internal evidence it was written no earlier than 1901. Falk's book claims that it was a production of the Russian Orthodox Church and published first in 1905, the first of which is a fringe claim and the second is objectively wrong. Falk also bizarrely claims that the work he says was published in 1905 was one of the causes of the Kishinev pogrom that happened in 1903! We should discard that book as a source. Bronner's book also has glaring errors, see a previous talk section for examples. Zero 06:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

To editor Zero0000: Ok! Make sure you edit the First Zionist Congress page; that is where I got the cites from! They're even in the intro there. Ogress 13:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Is the Dewey decimal actually 109?

It seems like a troll edit based off the expelled from 109 countries inside joke thing. If it isn’t a coincidence, could we get a footnote? Edit: also could be a pun on “Jewy” “Jewry” “Jew-y” 2A00:23C6:D603:8001:1425:6F4:83C:618F (talk) 17:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

The Secrets of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai

I was just reading the 'The Secrets of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai' (https://en.wikipedia.org/The_Secrets_of_Rabbi_Simon_ben_Yohai) and this document sounds a lot like the 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion'. In in, the jews lay out their plan to destroy "Edom" (Rome) though subversion. First, they would weaponize Ismael (Arabs) to attack Edom and then bringing in "Four Arms" (Chaturbhuja in Hindusim. Many Hindu deities are depicted with four arms) to finish the job after the Aabs weakened Edom. Some may argue that this is playing out today in the west. In the book 'Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World' (1977) by the historians Patricia Crone and Michael Cook they postulate that this document was the manuscript for Islam. Indeed, the leader of "Ismael" the Arabs is described as a redheaded warlord. I have read the claim that Allah and Muhammad were parodies of Attila the Hun and his uncle Ruglia waging war against Rome because the jews wanted the Arabs to wage war against Eastern Rome (Byzantine). My point here is that there are documents that outline a jewish conspiracy to destroy Edom even two thousand years ago, why is it unfathomable that the Protocols was simply an updated 'The Secrets of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai'?

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