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== Details of execution == | |||
I admit the details of the execution are rather grisly, even though they are brief. However, the gory details of the Rosenbergs' execution is one of the major elements of their story -- two possibly innocent civilians being executed by one of the most heinous and inhuman methods available. Please decide whether the execution details should be included in the article. -- ] | |||
Suggestion for further research: | |||
I recall reading something about the opening of Soviet archives, and there being some information regarding the Rosenbergs' execution/crimes. | |||
I've also read that Julius took 3 tries & Ethel 5 - but I don't have a good source on that. And did you mention that they left behind 2 young sons? | |||
~ender 2003-04-02 23:45 MST | |||
::Two possibly innocent civilians? How much more evidence has to be provided concerning their guilt before idiots stop claiming that the Rosenbergs weren't clearly guilty? And the fact they left behind two young sons is completely irrelevant. Many executed criminals leave behind innocent family members; they should have thought of that before they passed secrets to the Soviets. The seeming implication that this somehow makes the Rosenberg's execution that much more unjust is farcical. Passing secrets to the Soviets endangered everyone living in the United States(I will not bother to mention the other countries, as the case was tried in American courts). Capital punishment has long been a potential penalty for espionage in this country, and it still is. It was heartily deserved in this case. | |||
:::Guilty of possibly being part of a conspiracy to give scientific information to an ally... Comment made in the hope that this section is archived.--] (]) 09:08, 19 November 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Age at death / limitations of sidebar == | == Age at death / limitations of sidebar == | ||
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which I believe removes the ambiguity. There is still some minor formatting inconsistency as the sidebar places the initial age in parenthesis, but this was the best I could do with the automated process. At least now they are not reported dead at the same age. | which I believe removes the ambiguity. There is still some minor formatting inconsistency as the sidebar places the initial age in parenthesis, but this was the best I could do with the automated process. At least now they are not reported dead at the same age. | ||
== Editor Lalalacomeon == | |||
I've just posted this note to ]'s talk page: | |||
''Hi, I just reverted your edit, because it seems to me you made significant changes to sourced information without any explanation. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, feel free to contact me. ] (]) 21:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
Hello. A couple of editors have reverted your edits at ] as good faith but improper changes. Your persistence indicates you may not be editing in the best of faith. I am restoring the original text and request that you not make any further edits without engaging on the talk page. Thank you.'' | |||
I'm working on restoring the text right now. ] (]) 16:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
== NPV maintained? == | |||
== Change "Later developments" section to use chronological order == | |||
I'm questioning the NPV of this article. The article seems quite slanted towards putting forward a largely discredited theory of the Rosenburg's innocence. Anyone familiar with this episode is aware that it was a celebrity cause of the far left for 20 years that the Rosenbergs were innocent. Eventually the evidence became overwhelming with the release of the Venona intercepts and so it was shelved. | |||
I think it will benefit our readers if we untangle this section. New sources of information emerged at specific dates, which we can use: | |||
It seems this article continues the tradition, now limited to trying to prove the innocence of Ethyl Rosenburg, alone. In fact as current written it might better by titled "The Innocence of Ethyl Rosenberg". | |||
* 1995 publication of Venona decryptions (material that was available to the FBI but not made public during the trial) | |||
* 2001 David Greenglass later statements | |||
* 2008 release of grand jury testimony | |||
* 2008 Morton Sobell later statements | |||
* 2009 Vassiliev notebooks published online | |||
The Rosenberg children and their campaign for the exoneration of Ethel Rosenberg belong in a different section. | |||
I am going to try to sort this out. ] (]) 18:52, 15 November 2020 (UTC) | |||
: 1995 Venona descriptions: | |||
"...For example, a 1944 cable (which gives the name of Ruth Greenglass in clear text) says that Ruth's brother David is being recruited as a spy by his sister (that is, Ethel Rosenberg) and her husband..." | |||
But Mr. David Greenglass wasn’t the brother of Mrs. Ruth Greenglass. He was her spouse! | |||
This phrase must be written so: | |||
For example, a 1944 cable (which gives the name of Ruth Greenglass in clear text) says that Ruth's spouse David is being recruited as a spy by his sister (that is, Ethel Rosenberg) and her husband. --] (]) 07:21, 12 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
I note that many of the sources are from the Communist news paper "Sparticus" which can hardly be considered a reliable source in an article about Communist plots and spying. | |||
== Clarification about Ethel == | |||
Having a section on "controversy" and including some trimmed down information on this might be appropriate, but repurposing the article as ongoing propaganda is not. | |||
The previous version of this article claimed at the start that both Julius and Ethel spied for the Soviets and provided info to them. But all of the article’s sources that I looked at said that Ethel was involved in recruiting but ''not'' in providing info to the Soviets. So that opening paragraph seemed to me to be factually incorrect (according to the article’s sources), so I changed it. My change may not have been the best way to address this issue, I don’t know; but if someone ends up reverting my change, then please make other changes to make the article match what it says in the sources. (Or else provide a source for the specific claim that Ethel passed info to the Soviets.) — ] (]) 00:33, 16 March 2023 (UTC) | |||
I believe the article falls far short of maintaining a neutral point of view. | |||
⚫ | == Ethel's Innocence == | ||
] (]) 16:28, 11 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
This article would benefit from including information on the prosecution’s knowledge of intercepted Soviet communications related to the Rosenberg case. These communications detailed espionage activities using codenames for various spies, yet notably referred to “Ethel” directly in the description of the role codenamed “Antenna,” believed to refer to Ethel’s husband, Julius. It is significant that the prosecution was aware of this fact, and there is evidence suggesting that Ethel’s execution was intended, in part, to conceal the extent to which the United States had successfully intercepted and decoded Soviet messages. ] (]) 17:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
⚫ | == Ethel == | ||
:It's speculative.--] (]) 01:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
"Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) and '''Ethel Elizabeth Rosenberg''' (September 28, 1915 – June 19, 1953) were''' American citizen'''s who '''spied''' for the Soviet Union" --That's the lead sentence, but the article goes on to say that the evidence strongly indicates that Ethel did no spying. Wik should not have self-contradictory articles. ] (]) 12:19, 16 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Wrong. | |||
::https://www.justsecurity.org/105873/ethel-rosenberg-wrongful-execution/ ] (]) 04:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Not a spy == | |||
:The lead is correct. The rest of the article has been ] to claim their innocence. Changes coming soon. ] (]) 17:19, 16 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
https://www.justsecurity.org/105873/ethel-rosenberg-wrongful-execution/ <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 04:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Age at death / limitations of sidebar
The right-hand information block suggested that, having died the same day, they died at the same age in spite of having different birth years. Reviewing the code, it appears this was an auto-calculated field which does not allow the flexibility of reporting two death ages at a unique time for non-unique birthdates. To clarify for other readers, I changed the code from
| date_of_death = June 19, 1953(1953-06-19) (aged 35) (both)
to
| date_of_death = June 19, 1953(1953-06-19) (aged 35) (Julius), and aged 37 (Ethel)
which I believe removes the ambiguity. There is still some minor formatting inconsistency as the sidebar places the initial age in parenthesis, but this was the best I could do with the automated process. At least now they are not reported dead at the same age.
Change "Later developments" section to use chronological order
I think it will benefit our readers if we untangle this section. New sources of information emerged at specific dates, which we can use:
- 1995 publication of Venona decryptions (material that was available to the FBI but not made public during the trial)
- 2001 David Greenglass later statements
- 2008 release of grand jury testimony
- 2008 Morton Sobell later statements
- 2009 Vassiliev notebooks published online
The Rosenberg children and their campaign for the exoneration of Ethel Rosenberg belong in a different section. I am going to try to sort this out. HouseOfChange (talk) 18:52, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- 1995 Venona descriptions:
"...For example, a 1944 cable (which gives the name of Ruth Greenglass in clear text) says that Ruth's brother David is being recruited as a spy by his sister (that is, Ethel Rosenberg) and her husband..." But Mr. David Greenglass wasn’t the brother of Mrs. Ruth Greenglass. He was her spouse! This phrase must be written so:
For example, a 1944 cable (which gives the name of Ruth Greenglass in clear text) says that Ruth's spouse David is being recruited as a spy by his sister (that is, Ethel Rosenberg) and her husband. --Анатолий Глезер (talk) 07:21, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Clarification about Ethel
The previous version of this article claimed at the start that both Julius and Ethel spied for the Soviets and provided info to them. But all of the article’s sources that I looked at said that Ethel was involved in recruiting but not in providing info to the Soviets. So that opening paragraph seemed to me to be factually incorrect (according to the article’s sources), so I changed it. My change may not have been the best way to address this issue, I don’t know; but if someone ends up reverting my change, then please make other changes to make the article match what it says in the sources. (Or else provide a source for the specific claim that Ethel passed info to the Soviets.) — Elysdir (talk) 00:33, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Ethel's Innocence
This article would benefit from including information on the prosecution’s knowledge of intercepted Soviet communications related to the Rosenberg case. These communications detailed espionage activities using codenames for various spies, yet notably referred to “Ethel” directly in the description of the role codenamed “Antenna,” believed to refer to Ethel’s husband, Julius. It is significant that the prosecution was aware of this fact, and there is evidence suggesting that Ethel’s execution was intended, in part, to conceal the extent to which the United States had successfully intercepted and decoded Soviet messages. ChloeMS (talk) 17:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's speculative.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Not a spy
https://www.justsecurity.org/105873/ethel-rosenberg-wrongful-execution/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8802:5913:1700:7597:DD0E:35B5:1044 (talk) 04:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
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