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| == |
== Religion == | ||
| ⚫ | The part in the infobox talking about religion is largely outdated with more recen studies depicting a different attitude towards religion. | ||
| This article has the ] category, but is only listed (and considered) as a country in Europe. Shouldn't it be removed? ] (]) 14:54, 14 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | https://www.kathimerini.gr/society/562979893/dimoskopisi-dianeosis-statheri-axia-i-thriskeia-kai-nea-agonia-gia-to-klima/ | ||
| :Yes, it should. ]] 07:46, 15 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | This study says that 18.9% of the population doesnt believe in religion. | ||
| :: Actually, the description of Greece as a "transcontinental" country is still also in the article (in the geography section), and conversely the country is also still mentioned in the ] article. I have no strong feelings either way whether it should be – in one sense it clearly is, factually, transcontinental, but on the other hand it is very rarely described as such in outside sources for all I can see. We may need to live with the fact that there is no commonly accepted definition of the term and, more importantly, no factually consistent practice of using it out there. ] ] 08:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :::On the page's categorization, it is only listed as "Countries in Europe" (compare to both Portugal and Spain being also listed as "Countries in North Africa"). What I am saying is, a country can't both be transcontinental and also only belong in one contintent at the same time. ] (]) 13:20, 15 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :::: I agree it's not super-consistent, but there's no law that requires us to be consistent when there is no consistency in real-world usage in the first place. I don't think readers would expect to find Greece in a category of "countries in Asia". ] ] 14:53, 15 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Which means that readers won't expect to find Greece in a category of "Transcontinental countries" either. Like I said, a country can't be transcontinental when it's associated with only one continent, like Greece is. ] (]) 15:37, 15 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Thing is: Greece is technically a transcontinental country. But the amount of Asian territory it holds is disproportionately smaller compared to the European territory it holds. Plus it doesn't help the fact that these "Asian islands" in question, are so, in a geographical context only; they still are politically and culturally considered to be part of Europe. Just like ] which is Asian geographically, but European in every other way. This unique case makes it too complicated to simply apply the standard encyclopedic criteria here. But in either way, it cannot be questioned that term "transcontinental" here is used in a purely geographical context, and that some of Greece's territories, such as ], are indeed, part of the Asian continent. So the best solution to all this is to simply accept the fact that Greece is transcontinental in a geographical context, but avoid giving it more significance than there is about it. It only complements to the well-established fact that the country is geopolitically noted for being situated at the crossroads of the continents. --- <span style="text-shadow:#CCC 0.1em 0.3em 0.3em; font-family: Trebuchet MS">] <sup>(] | ])</sup></span> 02:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| :::::::Just for the fun of it: In the 1990s, this sign stood in the harbour of ], the 9 square km Greek island that most certainly technically is in Asia, lying just 2 km off the Turkish coast and 125 km from the nearest Greek land. The text down right states proudly: “Europe starts here” --] (]) 11:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | While in this study "The U.S. government estimates the total population at 10.5 million (midyear 2022). According to research polls, 81 to 90 percent of the population identifies as Greek Orthodox, 4 to 15 percent as atheist, and 2 percent as Muslim." | ||
| On reconsideration, I'm going to remove the statement, along with a piece of unfortunate ] that was recently added to it and would have had to be reverted in any case . But also in its previous form, the sentence about "is considered a transcontinental country" is both unsourced and most likely wrong. Who "considers" it as such? I looked again through the literature and could find nothing, nothing at all, in any reliable source listing Greece among "transcontinental countries". The thing is, being "transcontinental" is really not a meaningful and consistently defined concept at all. It's not something there is any coherent body of literature about. The term is merely used here and there in an ad-hoc fashion, by authors who need to justify the lumping in of either Russia or Turkey with their European or Asian neighbors for purposes of some geographical clustering or other. But it's not a category geographers bother writing about and developing criteria for in its own right. Whenever authors do provide a list of countries they consider "transcontinental", every author's list is different – the only thing they all agree on is to include Turkey and Russia, and then possibly one or two more. The whole idea of "categorizing" countries by whether they are transcontinental or not seems to be little more than a self-created piece of idle speculation on the part of Wikipedians and authors of low-quality trivia websites. ] ] 09:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/greece/ ] (]) 14:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC) | ||
| == Trimming "History" section == | |||
| == Establishment == | |||
| ] has recently the article as it was too long. I have reverted some parts of his edits in the article's "History" section for reasons that are explained in the summary of each of my edits and trimmed other parts trying to explain in my edits's summaries why it is preferable to delete or shorten these other sentences or phrases instead of others. Regards, ] (]) 17:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Why doesn't Greece on Misplaced Pages have establishment dates before 1830? In other countries you have establishment dates much earlier than the modern establishment of the state, such as Turkey, Egypt, Bulgaria, etc. | |||
| :Article definitely needs to be summarized much better with whole sections consolidated. 58 sections here vs 36 at an FA level article like ] or 41 for an ancient civilization like this one at ]. The history section could be cut in half and section like economy should be reduced to four paragraphs....Economy in FA articles are usually four or five paragraphs....not 7 or 8 sections... Is it relevant how many fishing ships there were over a decade ago.... Or when 4G and 5G service was made available? We could summarize the debt crisis in a sentence or two. See ] for a good example. Military history is as odd section to have..... If military actions were relevant enough they should be in the history section.... Again an example of way too much history here.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">]</span>🍁 20:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| There are many examples of the establishment of a Greek state in the past such as the Union of Corinth, the Union of Deilos, the Macedonian empire, and the later Byzantine empire. | |||
| :I understand Ashmedai's comment. It is logical that when a user boldly undertakes the task of reducing an artcile's size without prior discussion or adequate explanation, they might end up removing parts that another user may find important. Generally, the "trimminng" so far seems okay; it is mostly trimming of superfluous wording and making sentences more concise. There might still be some trivial information in parts like the economy, politics etc. (as Moxy pointed out) that could be condensed. For example, the Dept Crisis section continues to be disproportionately huge, compared to other sections; I'm not even sure it needs to be a separate section in the first place (as Moxy said, even a few sentences could be sufficient). Some sections seem to have a lot of paragraphs consisting of only a few sentences. Perhaps these need to be condesed into fewer, solid paragraphs. I guess, we'll see how it goes. ] (]) 15:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| There is even a Misplaced Pages page that refers to it under the title "Greek Empire" | |||
| ::I do not mean to question the need to somehow shorten this article. But I doubt that "The history section could be cut in half", as Moxy claims, without detrimental effects to the article's quality. The article on ] (which is comparable as it concerns a newly founded nation-state which traces its history to past millenia) seems to have a "History" section with as many subsections as this article. Neither do I agree that "the "trimming" so far seems okay", as far as the "History" section is concerned. This has been done in a matter that is hasty, since editors started chopping off important information (that has to be restored) without first bothering to locate and delete repetitions, and in a manner that betrays that editors involved lack either even superficial knowledge of or a genuine interest for the article's subject -- that the ] lasted until 1974... The process so far has been exceptionally uneven with information on the foundational event of the modern Greek nation-state, the Greek Revolution, covered in less text than is devoted to the performance of various sport teams. That is, I can't understand why the trimming has been focused on the section on History and not e.g. on "Economy" or "Sports" or the sections on "Philosophy" and "Mythology" which deal almost entirely with the pre-modern past and not with the modern nation-state, which is the article's main topic. I am thus removing the "too long" template from the article's section on History. ] (]) 12:12, 19 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Ashmedai, I understand you and I agree that the history does not need further trimming. Just like you, I was a little more concerned about that section specifically (eventhough I didn't state it in my previous comment), because as already mentioned, during the trimming important information could end up being removed in the process. Due to the very large size of the recently removed content, I haven't been able to very carefully look at what is being removed. I agree that the war of independence might need more coverage; perhaps even the 'early history' section might've also been trimmed a bit too much (?). In any case, based on the current statistics, the article is not anymore in major need of trimming and the removal of the "too long" tags is appropriate. ] (]) 14:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Ashmedai, I just wanted to explain myself a bit regarding a few edits I recently made. In regards to the "economic miracle" sentence in the introduction; I did not really intend to imply that the economic growth and the restoration of democracy were somehow linked; that's why I did not re-add the older wording, which included the word 'nonetheless'. I just thought that the first sentense of the last paragraph would become a bit crowded with even more information being added, but If you think it's better there, I don't really have strong opinions about this. Regarding the League of Corinth; I just thought the organization itself is definitely remarkable enough to have a reference in the paragraph. By "united" I had in mind not one state, of course, but mainly military unity. In any case, perhaps a better wording could be found for that too. ] (]) 21:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::], thank you for your message. There is talk in the literature of the participation in the campaign against the Persian Empire having a unifying effect, but at the same time Walbank, "The Problem of Greek Nationality", ''Phoenix'' 5, 2 writes among others about the League of Corinth being the "supposedly great moment of Greek unification" (p. 43), comments on "The difficulty involved in transforming such a war-alliance into an instrument of political unification in time of peace" adding that "any attempt by the hegemon -the war-leader- to centralize political power was always felt by the rest to be an encroachment and an abuse" (p. 50), and argues (ibid.) that "if there is any practical trace of unity in fourth century Greece, it was realized in the coalition which Demosthenes raised against Philip. For the next hundred and fifty years the one constant basis of common action in Greece is hostility towards Macedon" and that "The Macedonian controlled Leagues from 338 down to 224 were debarred from fostering unity in Greece precisely because they were Macedonian. Their political structure was often admirable. Both the League of Philip II and the League of Antigonus Doson have been praised as being among the most statesmanlike achievements of their kind in world history; but both stood for outside domination" (pp. 53-4). All together, taken into account along with the terms used in the sources already cited in the article's relevant passage, seem to me to make the use of the term rather problematic. ] (]) 20:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Greek_Empire ] (]) 20:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2024 == | |||
| : That's been repeatedly debated before, most recently at ] and earlier at ]. The short answer is: there was never any state in history before 1830 that was called Greece, had any kind of historical continuity with the present-day state, or was even just roughly coextensive geographically with it. ] ] 09:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{Edit semi-protected|Greece|answered=yes}} | |||
| ::I agree that obviously these ancient states or entities couldn't really be added here as early stages of the modern Hellenic Republic, since, despite the fact they had a perception of "Greece", they did not exactly form one unified Greek state that developed into modern Greece. Same thing for ], where the establisment section doesn't include Rome. On the other hand, I used to think that this section was based primarily on continuity; while countries like ], the ], ] etc. have a direct and unborken continuity with their previous empires, that's not the case with some other countries. One example is ], where the section starts from the 4th millenium BC; can we actually claim that the modern Arab Republic of Egypt is a continuation of the ancient Egyptian kingdoms, at least in any meaningful way? I guess what counts here as "continuity" is the very name "Egypt" (?). But again, ancient Egypt ceased to exist as a state when it fell to the Romans in 31 BC (which is not mentioned there), well before the territory got conquered by the Arabs. Generally, these infoboxes can be very tricky. ] (]) 10:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Remove intricate details and reduce the word count from 14,000 to a more readable 10,000 at maximum. ] (]) 06:06, 25 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Albania, for example, fell into the hands of the Ottomans. Nevertheless, the kingdom of Arbanon is mentioned. The same is happening with Bulgaria. I think the same should be happening with Greece since there were many cases of Greek empires and alliances in the Greek peninsula such as the Corinthian league and the Macedonian empire. :) ] (]) 10:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 06:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::: The Albania article is a pretty bad example to follow, to my mind (Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that just because some other article does something a certain way, we should do it the same way in another – there are doubtless a lot of articles where things have gone wrong.) For Bulgaria (as for Egypt, Poland and a couple others), I've gone on record on an earlier occasion saying that I can at least marginally see a case for including them, given that they were clearly historical states that shared at least the name and the approximate territory, if not temporal continuity, with the present ones. Albania doesn't have that: there were historical states in what is now Albania, and inhabited/ruled by Albanians, but there was never a historical state of "Albania". Greece doesn't have it either. Just because there were certain states that were run by Greeks, or situated in what is now Greece, doesn't make these states "Greece". (Incidentally, the ] page you linked to is an utter mess and shouldn't exist.) ] ] 11:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I see your point regarding the other Balkan countries. I would like to kindly mention, however, that I still don't think it would be appropriate for anciet states or entities (like alliances etc.) to be used in the establishment section of the infobox of the modern Hellenic republic for the reasons that were given above. ] (]) 11:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::The Corinthian League was also called the Hellenic league. It was founded by Philip of Macedonia and was the predecessor of the Macedonian empire. Macedoniam empire also is considered as an example of Greek unification. Also the Byzantine empire was occasionally referred to by others as the Greeks. | |||
| :::::Georgia (the country) has a reference to the ancient kingdoms of Iberia and Colchis even though it was not a unified state. | |||
| :::::<nowiki>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/League_of_Corinth</nowiki> ] (]) 11:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::You are right for pointing this out; that is yet another example of bad usage of the establishment section in a country infobox. ] (]) 13:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I would also like to point out that the various polities that you mentioned above are actually not ignored in the article, but are instead mentioned in the history section, which is the right place for all of them to be properly discussed. Among the other reasons given above, the sheer complexity of the various types of ancient Greek polities and other entities is impossible to be accurately represented in the overly simplistic infobox. ] (]) 14:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::] (]) 15:11, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Greece#c-Ypoferomai-20240909151100-Piccco-20240909142300 ] (]) 15:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Sorry something happened with wikipedia and I can't send a message. | |||
| :::::::I would also to say. | |||
| :::::::The Corinthian league was also called the Greek league and was a federation, not just an alliance. It had a way of organization just like the Mongolian Xiongnu confederation. | |||
| :::::::If you look at the wikipedia page for Mongolia it mentions this state as an earlier form of establishment of Mongolia. | |||
| :::::::Also, the Macedonian empire is an example of the unification of the Greeks as it is actually stated on the page of history. ] (]) 15:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::I don't exactly disagree, but this is a bit too simplistic and not fitting for this infobox. I understand that you are an inexperienced user, so this might make sense to you, especially after seeing all these terribly wrong infoboxes in other countries. I'm not sure, but I believe Mongolia might be another example of bad infobox; it can't really be used for comparison. ] (]) 10:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Are you an experienced user? Then what has Misplaced Pages really come to? The official name of Greece is not "Greece" it is the Hellenic Republic or Hellas. For the sake of combating misinformation it can be mentioned that all previous polities of Greece including the Corinthian league ,Athens, Sparta, the Macedonian Empire callled themselves Hellenes. ] (]) 21:30, 1 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Cities == | |||
| == Needs a sub section regarding their involvement of persecuting ottoman Muslims during ottoman contraction == | |||
| The list of Greek cities shows Piraeus, which, however, as mentioned in the relevant article, belongs to the urban area of Athens. So I think that either Piraeus should be removed from the list of cities in the article, or that the other cities - municipalities that belong to Athens should be added. ] (]) 13:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Examples of this can be seen in Crete and the fall of Thessaloniki. Greece was one of the key players in persecuting ottoman Muslims and its page should not be exempt from at least outlining how when and where it did so. ] (]) 17:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == |
== Changes in the text == | ||
| Yesterday i made a change there that it was saying that Greece is considered the birthplace of western civilization. I wrote that Greece is the birthplace of western civilization. Also at the western civilization you have a wrong link that doesnt lead to the page of western civilization but leads to the western culture instead so i put the correct link. You changed again these things that i wrote. Why you dont let other members to edit the pages?Everyone can edit in wikipedia. And the changes that i made are both correct. Put again the changes that i made. Also in the paragraph in the economy page that you write the numbers of the gdp and gdp per capita are still the old ones while at the box in the first page are the new ones. You have to change them in the paragraph. ] (]) 03:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | The part in the infobox talking about religion is largely outdated with more recen studies depicting a different attitude towards religion. | ||
| : Misplaced Pages content is determined by ] and ], which you don't seem to understand. If others disagree with changes you've made, you need to make a case for your changes on the article talk pages and get a consensus; see ]. <b>] ]</b> 14:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I told you that the western civilization has a wrong link on it! It leads to a wrong page you can just see it when you click it! Its not difficult! Also if you go to the economy page in the first paragraph you havent changed the numbers of gdp with the new ones like you did on the box in the introduction page! Why you just cant check them to see it?? You answer me without even check them! ] (]) 15:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | https://www.kathimerini.gr/society/562979893/dimoskopisi-dianeosis-statheri-axia-i-thriskeia-kai-nea-agonia-gia-to-klima/ | ||
| :::So to be clear you think ] or ] don't explain things properly or you think the link should simply link ] over the parent article that explains what the term means? You are aware that there is no section discussing Greece in the history article.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">]</span>🍁 00:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | This study says that 18.9% of the population doesnt believe in religion. | ||
| ⚫ | While in this study "The U.S. government estimates the total population at 10.5 million (midyear 2022). According to research polls, 81 to 90 percent of the population identifies as Greek Orthodox, 4 to 15 percent as atheist, and 2 percent as Muslim." | ||
| ⚫ | https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/greece/ ] (]) 14:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC) | ||
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Religion
The part in the infobox talking about religion is largely outdated with more recen studies depicting a different attitude towards religion.
This study says that 18.9% of the population doesnt believe in religion.
While in this study "The U.S. government estimates the total population at 10.5 million (midyear 2022). According to research polls, 81 to 90 percent of the population identifies as Greek Orthodox, 4 to 15 percent as atheist, and 2 percent as Muslim."
https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/greece/ Takis S1 (talk) 14:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
Establishment
Why doesn't Greece on Misplaced Pages have establishment dates before 1830? In other countries you have establishment dates much earlier than the modern establishment of the state, such as Turkey, Egypt, Bulgaria, etc. There are many examples of the establishment of a Greek state in the past such as the Union of Corinth, the Union of Deilos, the Macedonian empire, and the later Byzantine empire. There is even a Misplaced Pages page that refers to it under the title "Greek Empire"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Greek_Empire Ypoferomai (talk) 20:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- That's been repeatedly debated before, most recently at Talk:Greece/Archive_17#Why arent ancient/medieval Greek Kingdoms like the Macedonian Empire, Byzantine Empire, Myceneans, Minoans, Cycladics, Greek City States and so on included in the „Establishment“ part of the info box? and earlier at Talk:Greece/Archive_16#Inclusion of the League of Corinth in the infobox. The short answer is: there was never any state in history before 1830 that was called Greece, had any kind of historical continuity with the present-day state, or was even just roughly coextensive geographically with it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that obviously these ancient states or entities couldn't really be added here as early stages of the modern Hellenic Republic, since, despite the fact they had a perception of "Greece", they did not exactly form one unified Greek state that developed into modern Greece. Same thing for Italy, where the establisment section doesn't include Rome. On the other hand, I used to think that this section was based primarily on continuity; while countries like France, the UK, Turkey etc. have a direct and unborken continuity with their previous empires, that's not the case with some other countries. One example is Egypt, where the section starts from the 4th millenium BC; can we actually claim that the modern Arab Republic of Egypt is a continuation of the ancient Egyptian kingdoms, at least in any meaningful way? I guess what counts here as "continuity" is the very name "Egypt" (?). But again, ancient Egypt ceased to exist as a state when it fell to the Romans in 31 BC (which is not mentioned there), well before the territory got conquered by the Arabs. Generally, these infoboxes can be very tricky. Piccco (talk) 10:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Albania, for example, fell into the hands of the Ottomans. Nevertheless, the kingdom of Arbanon is mentioned. The same is happening with Bulgaria. I think the same should be happening with Greece since there were many cases of Greek empires and alliances in the Greek peninsula such as the Corinthian league and the Macedonian empire. :) Ypoferomai (talk) 10:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- The Albania article is a pretty bad example to follow, to my mind (Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that just because some other article does something a certain way, we should do it the same way in another – there are doubtless a lot of articles where things have gone wrong.) For Bulgaria (as for Egypt, Poland and a couple others), I've gone on record on an earlier occasion saying that I can at least marginally see a case for including them, given that they were clearly historical states that shared at least the name and the approximate territory, if not temporal continuity, with the present ones. Albania doesn't have that: there were historical states in what is now Albania, and inhabited/ruled by Albanians, but there was never a historical state of "Albania". Greece doesn't have it either. Just because there were certain states that were run by Greeks, or situated in what is now Greece, doesn't make these states "Greece". (Incidentally, the Greek Empire page you linked to is an utter mess and shouldn't exist.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see your point regarding the other Balkan countries. I would like to kindly mention, however, that I still don't think it would be appropriate for anciet states or entities (like alliances etc.) to be used in the establishment section of the infobox of the modern Hellenic republic for the reasons that were given above. Piccco (talk) 11:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- The Corinthian League was also called the Hellenic league. It was founded by Philip of Macedonia and was the predecessor of the Macedonian empire. Macedoniam empire also is considered as an example of Greek unification. Also the Byzantine empire was occasionally referred to by others as the Greeks.
- Georgia (the country) has a reference to the ancient kingdoms of Iberia and Colchis even though it was not a unified state.
- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/League_of_Corinth Ypoferomai (talk) 11:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- You are right for pointing this out; that is yet another example of bad usage of the establishment section in a country infobox. Piccco (talk) 13:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- I would also like to point out that the various polities that you mentioned above are actually not ignored in the article, but are instead mentioned in the history section, which is the right place for all of them to be properly discussed. Among the other reasons given above, the sheer complexity of the various types of ancient Greek polities and other entities is impossible to be accurately represented in the overly simplistic infobox. Piccco (talk) 14:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Ypoferomai (talk) 15:11, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Greece#c-Ypoferomai-20240909151100-Piccco-20240909142300 Ypoferomai (talk) 15:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry something happened with wikipedia and I can't send a message.
- I would also to say.
- The Corinthian league was also called the Greek league and was a federation, not just an alliance. It had a way of organization just like the Mongolian Xiongnu confederation.
- If you look at the wikipedia page for Mongolia it mentions this state as an earlier form of establishment of Mongolia.
- Also, the Macedonian empire is an example of the unification of the Greeks as it is actually stated on the page of history. Ypoferomai (talk) 15:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't exactly disagree, but this is a bit too simplistic and not fitting for this infobox. I understand that you are an inexperienced user, so this might make sense to you, especially after seeing all these terribly wrong infoboxes in other countries. I'm not sure, but I believe Mongolia might be another example of bad infobox; it can't really be used for comparison. Piccco (talk) 10:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Are you an experienced user? Then what has Misplaced Pages really come to? The official name of Greece is not "Greece" it is the Hellenic Republic or Hellas. For the sake of combating misinformation it can be mentioned that all previous polities of Greece including the Corinthian league ,Athens, Sparta, the Macedonian Empire callled themselves Hellenes. 2A02:678:481:2100:5C8:4881:44EE:6BF (talk) 21:30, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't exactly disagree, but this is a bit too simplistic and not fitting for this infobox. I understand that you are an inexperienced user, so this might make sense to you, especially after seeing all these terribly wrong infoboxes in other countries. I'm not sure, but I believe Mongolia might be another example of bad infobox; it can't really be used for comparison. Piccco (talk) 10:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Albania, for example, fell into the hands of the Ottomans. Nevertheless, the kingdom of Arbanon is mentioned. The same is happening with Bulgaria. I think the same should be happening with Greece since there were many cases of Greek empires and alliances in the Greek peninsula such as the Corinthian league and the Macedonian empire. :) Ypoferomai (talk) 10:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that obviously these ancient states or entities couldn't really be added here as early stages of the modern Hellenic Republic, since, despite the fact they had a perception of "Greece", they did not exactly form one unified Greek state that developed into modern Greece. Same thing for Italy, where the establisment section doesn't include Rome. On the other hand, I used to think that this section was based primarily on continuity; while countries like France, the UK, Turkey etc. have a direct and unborken continuity with their previous empires, that's not the case with some other countries. One example is Egypt, where the section starts from the 4th millenium BC; can we actually claim that the modern Arab Republic of Egypt is a continuation of the ancient Egyptian kingdoms, at least in any meaningful way? I guess what counts here as "continuity" is the very name "Egypt" (?). But again, ancient Egypt ceased to exist as a state when it fell to the Romans in 31 BC (which is not mentioned there), well before the territory got conquered by the Arabs. Generally, these infoboxes can be very tricky. Piccco (talk) 10:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Cities
The list of Greek cities shows Piraeus, which, however, as mentioned in the relevant article, belongs to the urban area of Athens. So I think that either Piraeus should be removed from the list of cities in the article, or that the other cities - municipalities that belong to Athens should be added. Νίκος Αστέρης (talk) 13:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
Changes in the text
Yesterday i made a change there that it was saying that Greece is considered the birthplace of western civilization. I wrote that Greece is the birthplace of western civilization. Also at the western civilization you have a wrong link that doesnt lead to the page of western civilization but leads to the western culture instead so i put the correct link. You changed again these things that i wrote. Why you dont let other members to edit the pages?Everyone can edit in wikipedia. And the changes that i made are both correct. Put again the changes that i made. Also in the paragraph in the economy page that you write the numbers of the gdp and gdp per capita are still the old ones while at the box in the first page are the new ones. You have to change them in the paragraph. Alikakii (talk) 03:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages content is determined by reliable sources and consensus, which you don't seem to understand. If others disagree with changes you've made, you need to make a case for your changes on the article talk pages and get a consensus; see WP:BRD. OhNoitsJamie 14:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- I told you that the western civilization has a wrong link on it! It leads to a wrong page you can just see it when you click it! Its not difficult! Also if you go to the economy page in the first paragraph you havent changed the numbers of gdp with the new ones like you did on the box in the introduction page! Why you just cant check them to see it?? You answer me without even check them! Alikakii (talk) 15:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- So to be clear you think Western civilization or Western culture don't explain things properly or you think the link should simply link History of Western civilization over the parent article that explains what the term means? You are aware that there is no section discussing Greece in the history article.Moxy🍁 00:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I told you that the western civilization has a wrong link on it! It leads to a wrong page you can just see it when you click it! Its not difficult! Also if you go to the economy page in the first paragraph you havent changed the numbers of gdp with the new ones like you did on the box in the introduction page! Why you just cant check them to see it?? You answer me without even check them! Alikakii (talk) 15:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
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