Talk:Persecution of Uyghurs in China: Difference between revisions

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	== Genocide ==

	It’s honestly super weird that this page isn’t called “Uyghur Genocide”. ] (]) 18:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

	:It was called "Uyghur Genocide", but time seems to have debunked that. Persecution is true, however. ] (]) 20:26, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
	::Only a relatively small number of ] and states refer to this as the “Uyghur Genocide”, which is our principal naming criterion.] (]) 17:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
	::How is not a genocide? According to the causing bodily or mental harm to members of a group, imposing measures intended to prevent births within a group and deliberately inflicting conditions of life that bring about its destruction in whole or in part all count as genocide. Just because they aren't outright killing every single Uyhgur, doesn’t mean that it's not genocide. The word genocide is also mentioned in the article 252 times at the time of writing. ] (]) 16:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
	:::It's not for Misplaced Pages editors to judge the genocide criteria - only to assess whether there is academic consensus.{{pb}}There are academic sources that say that the label of genocide has not been substantiated yet, for reasons such as the underlying data from Zenz being speculative (as the disclaimer in Zenz's report says) and other claims being exaggerated or unverified. The 2023 ] book is an example, summarizing: {{tq\|it is obvious that a campaign that aimed at Muslim minorities and abused their most basic rights definitely took place. However, the often exaggerated numbers, the way those numbers are presented—constantly repeating that millions of Uyghurs are being still and forever detained—and, principally, the unsubstantiated accusation of genocide, have to be criticized.}} — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">]<sup>]</sup></span> 19:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
	::::I was about to make essentially the same point as MarkH. Some sources, including some academics and Govt sources say that what is happening is genocide and many others are more cautious. Ditto, some sources refer to the HR abuses by PRC as the “Uyghur Genocide”, the majority don't. We record those sources, but it isn't our job to 'endorse' or 'verify' claims made that the HR abuses are genocide, nor to endorse the 'name' of the event. You are engaging in what we would refer to as ], ie assessing whether ''you think'' that the policies of the PRC fit the UN definition of genocide. We simply don't do that here, whatever the issue, merely record/reflect what has been produced by ].] (]) 06:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

	== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2024 ==

	{{edit extended-protected\|Persecution of Uyghurs in China\|answered=yes}}
	Change "The Chinese government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to defend its actions in Xinjiang" to "The US government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to destabilize Xinjiang". Currently, there are no solid proof of Uyghur refugees migrating outside of China, especially to the United States. China has released a 144 day visa program for tourists to visit Xinjiang, as a result, many tourist have found out that Xinjiang is nothing like what the USA proclaims and is merely propaganda from western media ] (]) 17:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
	:{{Not done}}: please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:EEp --> ] ] 17:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

	== Dead link update ==

	Hi, I can't update the page but this link is dead:
	https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/07/commerce-department-adds-eleven-chinese-entities-implicated-human

	I found the current one here:
	https://2017-2021.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/07/commerce-department-adds-eleven-chinese-entities-implicated-human.html

	Can someone please update it? ] (]) 02:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

	:{{done}}. I've replaced the web.archive.org link with the State Department's own archive, and I've changed the url-status parameter to "dead." ] (]) 03:08, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

	== Ideas on Uyghur persecution ==		== Ideas on Uyghur persecution ==
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	:The word "Brainwashing" should indeed be re-assessed. If meant literally, it is akin to arguing the earth is flat. "Brainwashing" is non-scientific, asserting "brainwashing" in some literal sense would raise the WP:FALSEBALANCE problem. However, in most instances, someone saying "brainwashing" means indoctrination. We should avoid colloquial or metaphorical language and simply say indoctrination.		:The word "Brainwashing" should indeed be re-assessed. If meant literally, it is akin to arguing the earth is flat. "Brainwashing" is non-scientific, asserting "brainwashing" in some literal sense would raise the WP:FALSEBALANCE problem. However, in most instances, someone saying "brainwashing" means indoctrination. We should avoid colloquial or metaphorical language and simply say indoctrination.
	:Feel free to bring forward more sources on your broader point. Editors on this talk page will read them. ] (]) 16:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)		:Feel free to bring forward more sources on your broader point. Editors on this talk page will read them. ] (]) 16:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			::Agree that 'brainwashing' is a) a loaded word and b) un-encyclopaedic. ] 22:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

	== Incorrect spelling ==		== Incorrect spelling ==

Latest revision as of 18:39, 22 December 2024

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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: When was consensus established to name the page Persecution of Uyghurs in China? A1: The current title reflects the consensus established in the most recent move discussion (22 January 2024). Two previous widely attended move discussions (30 June 2020 and 1 April 2021) had resulted in this page being titled Uyghur genocide. Please see Logs and discussions below for the full list of move discussions. In these discussions, editors discussed reporting from reliable sources in light of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA, the first two times establishing an affirmative consensus that the title "Uyghur genocide" is an appropriate name for the article. The third debate, immediately following a 12 January 2024 discussion that was closed as "not moved", citing WP:NCENPOV as the naming convention guideline justifying a shift to the new name.

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The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to Uyghurs, Uyghur genocide, or topics that are related to Uyghurs or Uyghur genocide, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Logs and discussions:

Discussions:

RM, Ethnocide of Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs, Moved, 4 February 2020, (discussion)
RM, Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of Uyghurs, Moved, 16 February 2020, (discussion)
RM, Cultural genocide of Uyghurs → Uyghur genocide, Moved, 30 June 2020, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs, Not Moved, 3 February 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur cultural genocide, Not Moved, 1 April 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Repression of Uyghurs in China, Not Moved, 5 September 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur ethnocide, Not Moved, 20 September 2023, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur genocide accusation, Not Moved, 12 January 2024, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs in China, Moved, 22 January 2024, (discussion)

Ideas on Uyghur persecution

"Brainwashing" as a form of attack seems a bit ridiculous, and there should most definitely be an addition to this article about skepticism of the Uyghur persecution FrogOnGrog (talk) 12:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a subsection on brainwashing under the human rights abuses section. It has plenty of content, and sources are cited. Will see if that section needs to be expanded even more. I do not think it is for Misplaced Pages to decide whether this is ridiculous. Butterdiplomat (talk) 13:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The word "Brainwashing" should indeed be re-assessed. If meant literally, it is akin to arguing the earth is flat. "Brainwashing" is non-scientific, asserting "brainwashing" in some literal sense would raise the WP:FALSEBALANCE problem. However, in most instances, someone saying "brainwashing" means indoctrination. We should avoid colloquial or metaphorical language and simply say indoctrination.

Feel free to bring forward more sources on your broader point. Editors on this talk page will read them. JArthur1984 (talk) 16:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree that 'brainwashing' is a) a loaded word and b) un-encyclopaedic. Blitterbug 22:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect spelling

The "Cultural effcts - Naming - Villege Names" seems to be having an incorrect spelling of the word "village". Not sure if it's a stylistic choice, but it may need to be changed to keep the spelling consistency. Princesan21 (talk) 19:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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