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Revision as of 10:56, 23 December 2024

Bart Simpson

Bart Simpson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Bart Simpson

• Featured article review/Bart Simpson/archive1

Notified: WikiProject The Simpsons, WikiProject Television, WikiProject Animation, WikiProject Comedy, WikiProject Fictional characters, Gran2, Scorpion0422

Review section

I am nominating this featured article for review because...The article is obviously outdated and doesn't meet the modern FA criteria. The article went a lot of changes and the prose isn't FA quality already. There are lots of reliable and scholarly sources that need to be updated for the article to be updated + the article uses a lot of low-quality sources and the citations are poorly formatted. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 06:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• Move to FARC The article needs to be updated with 2010-2024 information. Z1720 (talk) 16:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Move to FARC – lacks information for the last ~15 years and sourcing needs improving. I don't think the prose is too bad, but the article would need a lot of updating to keep the star. Sgubaldo (talk) 20:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

FARC section

Issues raised in the review section include currency and sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Considering, @Z1720, Boneless Pizza!, and Sgubaldo: what specifically needs updating? I could fix the citation formatting and low-quality cites. 750h+ 10:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Do we need to be specific btw? Most of the section looks like you really needs to start from scratch. Its a lot of work, not just updating though. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Boneless Pizza!: Naming the specific sections that need updating helps others, as interested editors can take a look and see if they agree or disagree. A one-sentence statement about what needs to be updated, or suggestions on what to add, can also help, especially from subject-matter experts who can identify what is missing. Z1720 (talk) 17:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Boneless Pizza!: per Z1720, if you want me to help i'm gonna need a little more than that (i've never worked on a cartoon character before) 750h+ 23:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not expert either at cartoon characters, except at video games. But yeah,at first glance it needs a lot of improvement 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 14:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Z1720, Boneless Pizza!, and Sgubaldo: I'm going to ping @Xeroctic and Pallettown: who seem to be frequent contributors to the project, but otherwise I'm moving towards keep rather than delist (not officially voting now), as aside from the citation formatting, one page needed tag and minor copyedits that could be implemented, the article seems to be in fine shape, aside from the unreliable sources which I can remove and replace (not too much work). I don't see any need to add anything date-related unless he appears in another movie or something extraordinary happens; the article doesn't list many dates (it primarily lists his characteristics and developments) and doesn't need to list every episode he appears in. I'm happy to fix the issues remaining however. 750h+ 13:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

+ the reception section needs to be overhauled and expanded; while the character's design and merchandise section needs to be expanded more. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Boneless Pizza!: sounds easy. Will do once I finish some other work. 750h+ 13:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@750h+ Wow, it seems like all the tough ones look easy at you. You're also pretty quick at gaining more of those brown stars. Misplaced Pages should be thankful at your work! 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm trying to save the more iconic ones like this and the Notorious B.I.G. because you'd probably rather something never be an FA rather than it being an FA and seeing it get delisted, and so if it's an iconic person that just makes it all the more depressing, which is why i'm trying to stop it 750h+ 13:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems like you're not only good at Car articles, interesting. Honestly, I'm also on verge of sending Homer Simpson to FAR soon as I'm maintaining the FAs at WP:Fictional characters asap. Though, I only work RE characters. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:54, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Boneless Pizza!: I kind of disagree with the expanding of the design and merchandise ; they both seem well sized. What do you think needs adding? 750h+ 02:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Unless there's more in google news. I think design could be possibly be added a tiny bit. But if you can't find anything, its fine. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

There's not much information about the character past 2010. The only two sentences I could find were "In "Simpsorama" (season 26, 2014) Bart states his birthday as February 23" and "In 2022, Paste writers claimed that Bart is the 26th best cartoon character of all time". Sgubaldo (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Since I was pinged, I will mention that I put the corresponding good topic for delisting a while ago (due to the delisting of Maggie and partially due to this FAR being pending).

Having edited this article occasionally, I am mostly making minor rewordings and doing redirect maintenance rather than writing content. There has been a little noteworthy coverage in recent years that could be added, such as the character's non-canon 11th birthday, which could warrant a brief mention in the article (but I am unsure where it would be most suitable). Xeroctic (talk) 14:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Some additional comments after a quick review:

• "In "The Blue and the Gray", Bart (along with Lisa and Maggie) finally questions why his hair has no visible border to separate head from hair." is uncited. I'm not sure it is necessary in the article: if it is, the explanation should be included.
• In "Hallmarks" there's an entire paragraph devoted to Bart's nude scene in the Simpson's Movie. Is this really a Hallmark if it happens once, or perhaps its just fancruft and can be removed.
• "Groening, Matt (October 28, 2010)." is listed in the Bibliography but is not used as an inline citation.

I hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 15:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• In terms of the nude skateboarding scene, it provides as an example of the nudity hallmark (although I think that mooning should be mentioned as his nudity is predominantly that), it has received at least some press coverage, and it is mentioned in two other articles, so I think it could stay. Xeroctic (talk) 16:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  The quote boxes looked quite messy, I think it should be removed also since modern FAC doesn't recommend hat. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 23:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'll also add that if its possible also to remove all the citations at lead so it will looked clean. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 01:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Boneless Pizza!, Z1720, Xeroctic, and Sgubaldo: i think i've fixed the article up. What do we think now? I've reduced the article's size significantly by removing cruft, which i think is a good thing. 750h+ 19:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

  • I would be consistent with whether or not the citations use title case for the titles. I would also make sure to italicize game and film titles in the citation titles per MOS:CONFORMTITLE
  • For most of the FAC nominations, they told us that further reading sources shuld be cleanse and all implemented at the article.
  • From the reception section: ref 118 (not italicized) and ref 173 (not linked). Some other BBC news arent italized, while others are.

  🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 19:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Boneless Pizza!: all should be addressed (if I forgot to address anything let me know). Any other concerns? 750h+ 07:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  There are some film titles aren't italicized yet, for ex: "The Simpson". About references, ref 174 should be fixed, ref 186 Complex magazine isn't linked yet, ref 193 doesn't have website name, ref 194 doesn't have authors, ref 200 not yet linked + it should be "Screen Rant" with space, and possibly more. Also, after checking some the content you removed, The Simpsons and Philosophy: The D'oh! of Homer chapter "Thus Spake Bart: On Nietzsche and the Virtues of Being Bad" content I think should be implemented. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 08:26, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Oof, I think you bolded the film titles instead of italicizing it. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 09:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Boneless Pizza!: alll done 🙂. anything else? 750h+ 09:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  I apologize about this and I really appreciate you working on this iconic character. This should be the last "issue" I will point out about comprehensiveness. These sources NFL Bart Way Mentioned and lastly this about the arrested graffiti that can be imolemented under "negative influence" should be implemented imo. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 09:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Under "Cultural influence, reception, and commendations", I don't like what haplen to the first paragraph. It feels like it just lists everything about its rankings and such (repetitive). I would remove TV guide as a source if I were you due to it being low quality, and also add some context on what the author of Paste said instead of listing it only. Again, I apologize and I already told you before that this article is big and tough. But, the article has already improved and it's almost there! 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 09:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Boneless Pizza!: if you have any left over concerns please list them in your following comment, please don't just add more extensive concerns when i feel like i've already addressed your remaining comments. responses: the graffiti is too minor of an incident to be implemented. i added the NFL source, while the other two sources are pointless imo. i don't see anything wrong with the first paragraph of the Cultural influence, reception, and commendations, as it follows WP:RECEPTION pretty well. I also don't get where you saw TV Guide as bad source, as, per RSPS, is an excellent source for television related topics. The Paste writer also didn't say anything about Bart; all that was written was "Every principal’s nightmare, this merry prankster’s only two real talents are skateboarding and troublemaking. —Josh Jackson". 750h+ 10:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @750h+ Oops, I treated TV Guide as Daily Star; my bad. I think that's it. Pinging the other 2 @Sgubaldo @Z1720 if they still have concerns. Many thanks for working on this popular article. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 10:24, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Boneless Pizza!: does this count as a keep vote? 750h+ 10:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Yes. However there's still few issues. Ref 233 doesn't redirect me to bibliography after clicking it, ref 57, 62, 73, 80, 81, 85, 128, 236 was bolded instead of being italicized. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 10:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  + "In 1996, he was ranked No. 48 on TV Guide's list of the 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time. In 2002, both Bart and Lisa were jointly ranked No. 11 on TV Guide's list of the Top 50 Greatest Cartoon Characters of All Time. In 2022, Paste writers ranked Bart as the 26th greatest cartoon character of all time" this isn't FA quality and it feels repetitive. You have other ways to do with this? 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 10:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Boneless Pizza!: fixed the bolding concerns and harv error. I fixed the commendations to make it more "FA quality", but i can't change the repetition of "all time". 750h+ 10:48, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks! Btw, I think the image should be replaced of him mooning? Anyway, I am leaning keep. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 10:55, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Article seems much improved.

  • Ref. 12 missing a year
  • Ref. 29 seems to be from a very questionable journal.
  • Refs. 42 and 233 have a harv error (i.e. the sfn is broken)
  • Refs. 45 and 162's formatting is broken.
  • Refs. 86, 98, 102, 111, 118 and 163 could be archived.
  • Nitpick, but in the references, sometimes it's "Fox", sometimes it's "20th Century Fox". Make it consistent?
  • Should the character's non-canon 11th birthday that Xeroctic mentioned above be included?

  Sgubaldo (talk) 15:57, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Sgubaldo: all done. 750h+ 18:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Sgubaldo: would you feel my anychance to leave an !vote? 750h+ 15:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, was just about to leave a comment.

  • Groening 2010 (the Season 1-20 ultimate episode guide) isn't used.
  • Could mention that the Bart simpson "Underachiever ('And proud of it, man!')" t-shirt is in the National Museum of American History.

  Other than that, leaning keep. Sgubaldo (talk) 15:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Sgubaldo: both done. 750h+ 16:18, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

That image, according to the file discussion page, is meant to depict two hallmarks; skateboarding at (at least partial) nudity, as well as depicting a notorious scene from The Simpsons Movie, so I think it could stay as it is. Xeroctic (talk) 12:27, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, should the discussion about that image be listed at WP:FfD, since you removed it and may be considering replacing it? Xeroctic (talk) 12:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed with Xeroctic, most of the paragraph discusses the skateboarding scene. 750h+ 12:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Restored. Anyway, the article looks good now. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 12:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

@Z1720: do you have any comments? 750h+ 16:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I have no concerns after a quick skim. If I find time, I will take a closer look but would not be bothered if this is declared keep beforehand. Z1720 (talk) 03:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Keep- No major issues and concerns have been addressed and fixed. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 04:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

@FAR coordinators: with three keep votes and one editor who currently has no concerns and would not be bothered if this were closed, can we close this? I'd like to get this on WP:TFAR for April 1 as his birthday. Thanks. 750h+ 08:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

April 1st is also April Fools' Day, when a more humorous featured article is often featured (but not always), but due to the subject being a well-known fictional prankster, I think it could count. Xeroctic (talk) 09:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I know, and that's part of the reason why 750h+ 09:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This removal candidate has been kept, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please leave the {{featured article review}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC)