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{{OnThisDay |date1=2004-08-27|oldid1=9183165|date2=2005-08-27|oldid2=21990774|date3=2006-08-27|oldid3=72156600|date4=2007-08-27|oldid4=153560086|date5=2008-08-27|oldid5=234400991|date6=2009-08-27|oldid6=310296167|date7=2010-08-27|oldid7=381359075|date8=2011-08-27|oldid8=447017700|date9=2012-08-27|oldid9=509374473|date10=2013-08-27|oldid10=570409625|date11=2014-08-27|oldid11=622850580|date12=2015-08-27|oldid12=678073524|date13=2016-08-27|oldid13=736258248}} |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 May 2024 == |
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== Administrative divisions map error == |
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In Administrative divisions, ] should be ]. I just don't know how to correct this. Thanks, ] (]) 00:07, 27 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 March 2023 == |
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{{Edit extended-protected|Moldova|answered=yes}} |
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{{Edit extended-protected|Moldova|answered=yes}} |
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Change the Gini index for the year 2019 to 2021: change 26.0 to 25.7 (decrease) |
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Changing the official language to only Romanian as it is stated in the Declaration of Independence and in the 2013 ruling of the Constitutional Court of Moldova that the language is Romanian. ] (]) 13:55, 14 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Link: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=MD ] (]) 12:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> — ] (]) 07:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:The field is named "Official language and national language" and this is sourced. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 14:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::{{re|TimothyBlue}} please have a look at ] and let me know what you think. Best, ] (]) 16:23, 14 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:Well actually I think the change was pretty clear and it's been {{done}}, thank you @]! ] (]) 15:05, 23 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::I know I'm not the Timothy person, but it looks good to me. I've accordingly closed the edit request. @] ] (]) 21:51, 14 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:] '''In progress:''' An editor is implementing the requested edit.<!-- Template:EEp --> ] (]) 21:52, 14 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::If you are going to replace existing content with references, you need to explain with sources why the information is incorrect and why the sources should be removed and what sources are replacing them. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 22:02, 14 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::In 1991, the Declaration of Independence of Moldova named the official language as Romanian. In December 2013, the Constitutional Court of Moldova ruled that the Declaration of Independence takes precedence over the Constitution, and the state language should be called "Romanian". On March 2, 2023, the Moldovan parliament voted in the first reading to replace the phrase "Moldovan language" with "Romanian language" in all legislation of the country. The proposed law was introduced by a group of members of the "Action and Solidarity Party" fraction. Additionally, phrases such as "official language," "state language," and "mother tongue" will also be replaced. The authors of the proposal argue that this change is necessary to implement the constitutional considerations outlined in the decisions of the Constitutional Court, which declared that the state language of the Republic of Moldova is Romanian. The bill also proposes that the National Holiday "Our Language," as it is currently referred to, be renamed "Romanian Language." The proposal passed its first reading with 56 votes in favor. |
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:::You need anything else, chief? ] (]) 11:18, 15 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::The information on the page reflects this. Are you saying Moldovan is not a major national language in Moldova? or that the sources you are seeking to remove are not reliable? You're proposing removing reliability sourced information is a POV edit. Do not remove reliably sourced information unless you have a consensus that the sources are incorrect. If necessary you can go to the dispute resolution noticeboard ]. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 11:25, 15 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moldovan-parliament-approves-law-romanian-language-2023-03-16/ |
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:::::There you go it's over now, you can go and cry, bye ] (]) 13:49, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::No one is disputing this, but your attempt to remove Moldovan and only list Romanian as a language (which is sourced) because you think "Moldovan language doesn't exist it was invented by Russians to give Moldovans a separate identity" (see reference below) is unacceptable. I thought you would take the hint to drop this when an admin removed your comment, but since you have decided to continue, maybe this behavior should be looked into further. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 14:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::-)))) go outside and enjoy life you seem sad af |
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:::::::] (]) 14:07, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::{{replyto|TimothyBlue}} Can you please put a reliable source saying Moldovan is "the national language of Moldova" as you claim? Because both the CIA World Factbook and Encyclopedia Britannica (the sources you've put to claim Moldovan was a language) both say Moldovan is not a language but the official name of Romanian in Moldova, and it's not even official anymore as of 16th March 2023 this was changed by the ]. |
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:::::So can you provide reliable sources saying Moldovan is a language and it's the national language as you've claimed several times? Because if I check ] it clearly says it was an alternative name for Romanian, despite you saying the opposite, the Wikipage doesn't agree with your words, so can you provide alternative reliable sources that match your point? |
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:::::And that means reliable sources clearly saying "Moldovan language" is a separate language (as you claim) not ones that just mention Moldovan because before 16th March 2023 was the official name of the Romanian language in Moldova, like it says in the CIA World Factbook source ] (]) 21:43, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::The change of constitution that change the name of the language was signed by president on 22 March 2023. That means that the official languange is called Romanian. |
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:::::https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/moldovan-president-signs-decree-on-referring-to-national-language-as-romanian/2853850 ] (]) 11:43, 23 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''': Kapanol420 had a nationalist POV rant removed from this page today, here is the diff . I think this shows what this edit request is about and that is should be rejected. Kapanol420 is headed for a block from contributing to Romanian and Moldovan articles. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 15:28, 15 March 2023 (UTC) |
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==RFC: Should Moldovan be removed as a language in Moldova== |
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| result = This RfC has been started on the grounds that Moldovan has been replaced by Romanian in Moldovan legislation. But this is not true. The law project had to be approved twice by the parliament, then enter into force, and only then it will be applied within 30 days . The latter two have not happened yet. It is not appropriate to remove Moldovan from here. End of discussion.<br /><br />Further, linguistically Moldovan is the same as Romanian. Once the political changes take place it will be proper to remove it. Equating here Romania with Russia and Moldova with Ukraine is also absolutely unacceptable. ] ] ] 19:03, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Do you support removing ] as a language in Moldova and only listing Romanian? Moldovan was a local name of the ] in ].<ref>{{cite web |last=Directorate-General for Translation of the European Commission |title=A Field Guide to the Main Languages of Europe – Spot That Language and How to Tell Them Apart |date=2008 |url=http://extranet.isti.ulb.ac.be/telecharge2.php?user=0&nomfic=willmott%2Fbac2_linguistics%2Fsection%201%20-%20%20history%20of%20linguistics%20indo-eur%20langs%20%20units%201%20and%202%2Ffield_guide_main_languages_of_europe_en.pdf |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151117032940/http://extranet.isti.ulb.ac.be/telecharge2.php?user=0&nomfic=willmott%2Fbac2_linguistics%2Fsection%201%20-%20%20history%20of%20linguistics%20indo-eur%20langs%20%20units%201%20and%202%2Ffield_guide_main_languages_of_europe_en.pdf |edition=3rd |access-date=7 April 2020 |archive-date=17 November 2015 |url-status=dead}}</ref> The only official and national language Moldova has is ] and the ] ''Moldovan'' is not official anymore.<ref>{{cite web|title=Adoptat de Parlament: Sintagma „limba română” va fi introdusă în toate legile Republicii Moldova|url=https://multimedia.parlament.md/adoptat-de-parlament-sintagma-limba-romana-va-fi-introdusa-in-toate-legile-republicii-moldova/|access-date=19 March 2023|work=]|language=ro}}</ref> |
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''Moldovan'' was declared as the official language in Article 13 of the ] adopted in 1994,<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://gov.md/content/ro/0000072.pdf|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080226205217/http://gov.md/content/ro/0000072.pdf|url-status=dead|at=Article 13, line 1 |title=Constitution of the Republic of Moldova|archive-date=26 February 2008}}</ref> while the 1991 ] from the ] used the name ''Romanian''. In 2003, the ] adopted a law defining ''Moldovan'' and ''Romanian'' as ] for the same language.<ref>{{cite web|title=Politics of National Conception of Moldova|url=http://lex.justice.md/index.php?action=view&view=doc&lang=1&id=312846|access-date=10 March 2014|work=Law No. 546/12-19-2003|language=ro}}</ref> In 2013, the ] interpreted that Article 13 of the constitution is superseded by the Declaration of Independence,<ref name="const-court">{{cite news | title = Hotărâre Nr. 36 din 05.12.2013 privind interpretarea articolului 13 alin. (1) din Constituție în corelație cu Preambulul Constituției și Declarația de Independență a Republicii Moldova (Sesizările nr. 8b/2013 și 41b/2013) | publisher = Constitutional Court of Moldova | quote = 124. ... Prin urmare, Curtea consideră că prevederea conținută în Declarația de Independență referitoare la limba română ca limbă de stat a Republicii Moldova prevalează asupra prevederii referitoare la limba moldovenească conținute în articolul 13 al Constituției. |trans-quote=124. ... Therefore, the Court considers that the provision contained in the Declaration of Independence regarding the Romanian language as the state language of the Republic of Moldova prevails over the provision regarding the Moldovan language contained in Article 13 of the Constitution. | language = ro | url = http://constcourt.md/download.php?file=cHVibGljL2NjZG9jL2hvdGFyaXJpL3JvLWhfMzZfMjAxM19yby5wZGY%3D | access-date = 20 December 2013 }}</ref> thus giving official status to the name ''Romanian''.<ref name="foxnews">{{Cite news |date=2013-12-05 |title=Moldovan court rules official language is 'Romanian', replacing Soviet-flavored 'Moldovan' |work=] |agency=Associated Press |url=http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/05/moldovan-court-rules-official-language-is-romanian-replacing-soviet-flavored/ |access-date=2013-12-07 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131209102718/http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/05/moldovan-court-rules-official-language-is-romanian-replacing-soviet-flavored |archive-date=2013-12-09}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | url =http://www.rferl.org/content/moldova-romanian-official-language/25191455.html| title=Chisinau Recognizes Romanian As Official Language| newspaper=Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty| date=5 December 2013|access-date=11 March 2014}}</ref> The constitutional name of the ] in Moldova was ''Moldovan language'' from 1994 until 16th March 2023, when the ] approved a law on referring to the national language as Romanian in all legislative texts and the constitution, despite opposition from a ].<ref>{{Citation | title=Moldovan parliament approves law on Romanian language | url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moldovan-parliament-approves-law-romanian-language-2023-03-16/ | access-date=16 March 2023}} |
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</ref> <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 15:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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===Background=== |
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Previously there were links to both the ] page and ] page in the infobox. A some editors wish to remove Moldovan and the sources for it and are insisting that only one link appear for Romanian. This has been discussed at ]. There was a low level edit war which I've stopped. |
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No one has disputed that Romanian is the current official language of Moldova, but removing links to Moldovan does not serve any purpose and obscures the complicated nature and information about the relationship between Romanian and Moldovan. This information is sourced and clearly explained in the article for Moldovan language. I think that erasing sourced references to Moldovan as a language in Moldova is very clearly a case of nationalist POV pushing, which has been a problem and will only get worse as the current events continue. An admin removed this comment , but it shows the motivation to remove the link/refs is pushing the POV that Moldovan does not exist. Erasing/obsuring this information is not a postive contribution to Misplaced Pages. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 15:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''': Kapanol420 has been blocked as not here. See , , , , . <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 17:01, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' At least over a long time, the infobox of Moldova had no links to Moldovan inside the Infobox (but rather a short description in the Romanian reference) until someone managed to introduce that there in the middle of the edit war. Check this edit diff from 9th March 2023 to see about what I'm talking about, so there were no previous links at all. |
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*'''Comment''' Anyways, that's kind of irrelevant as nowadays the Moldovan parliament already approved the Constitutional Law stating that "Romanian" is the only official language of Moldova and their constitution has been already modified with this change. Why would you like to keep a secondary name for the Romanian language that isn't even official nowadays? It was from 1994 to 16th March 2023. It's not already. ] (]) 18:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:*'''Comment''' False, Moldovan has been in the article for a long time and was only removed by edit warring editors, some of which have been banned. |
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:: Diffs from 2022 (click revision link in the diff to see full page): , , , , , , , , and even earlier , , , , , , |
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:: Moldovan has been in the article long term. It is not a recent addition and was removed by edit warring, not as stated in the previous comment. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 18:47, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::*'''Comment''' You might be right, I didn't check that too deeply because as I've already said, it's irrelevant nowadays as their constitution has been changed while this edit war happened in Misplaced Pages. |
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:::It wouldn't make sense to have "Moldovan language" in the infobox if the only official language Moldova has is ] stated by their declaration of independence and after 16th March 2023 it's stated in their own national constitution as well. The latter has been approved just 2 days ago in the ] () so what we are discussing here has been solved by themselves in their own parliament. |
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:::I don't feel it's a thing Misplaced Pages has to discuss if no source saying "Moldovan language" is valid anymore because Moldova changed their constitution just 2 days ago to solve this historical dispute. And I'm sure many if not most sources that also included "Moldovan" haven't been changed given the fact this happened literally just 2 days ago. ] (]) 18:52, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::*'''Comment''' Simplistic and distorted versions of the truth. Interesting how many new accounts with only a few edits keep showing up to make the same points as blocked users. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 19:04, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::*'''Comment''' My point is common sense and being rational by looking at the new constitution of the Republic of Moldova. Why do you make accusations and why do you break ] against me? Have you seen me editing something related to Moldova until I've came here just to write this? I've seen this news event on ] as it has been a very important event in Europe, despite you thinking I'm a ] of a banned user. |
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:::::Since I do assume good faith, I really hope your edits are just because of misinformatiom and not because you want to make biased edits, as it seems you don't want to accept the fact that the Parliament of Moldova has made such changes 2 days ago, leaving the "Moldovan language" as a stale, dead name given the fact it has been removed from the Moldovan Constitution. |
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:::::'''And here you have the official ] website site saying the only official language Moldova has is Romanian and that "Moldovan language" will be ''replaced'' to Romanian language from all texts where the Romanian language was styled as Moldovan:''' https://multimedia.parlament.md/adoptat-de-parlament-sintagma-limba-romana-va-fi-introdusa-in-toate-legile-republicii-moldova/ ] (]) 19:34, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::*'''Comment''' See ]. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 20:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::*'''Comment''' ]: '''Moldovan, also known historically as Moldavian, was a local name of the Romanian language in Moldova.''' So it literally says it was the local name of the Romanian language (not even valid anymore, as it's a defunct name) yer you still claim Moldovan is a separate language. Seriously, what's your point here? Your arguments make no sense. ] (]) 20:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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===Responses=== |
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* '''Oppose''': Removing links to Moldovan does not serve any purpose and obscures the complicated nature and information about the relationship between Romanian and Moldovan. Link and references should be restored. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 15:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''': The breakaway state of ] from Moldova officially recognizes the Moldovan rather than the Romanian language, and uses the ]. –] (]]) 16:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' per above. ] (]) 17:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Support''' The ] approved the change of the Moldovan Constitution to declare that the only official language Moldova has is Romanian, and that "Moldovan language" will be '''replaced''' to Romanian language from all texts where the Romanian language was styled as Moldovan: . What's "official" in Transnistria is not too relevant here as Transnistria is not a recognized state and it's part of the Republic of Moldova, which has a single official language, named Romanian. The term "Moldovan" (for the language) was official from 1994 to 16th March 2023. Nowadays the only official term is Romanian, but since this change has been done only 2 days ago, I'm sure many sources still keep the old name as this is a very recent change and they need an update.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> |
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*'''Romanian (Moldovan) ''' - I feel this is a compromise that works on all fronts. It alleviates {{reply to|TimothyBlue}}'s concern that a change {{tq|obscures the complicated nature and information about the relationship between Romanian and Moldovan}} as having them both linked directs to both ] and ]. Having Romanian as first with Moldovan in brackets also reflects the official status of Romanian while helping it be more clear that they are the same language. ] (]) 09:53, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:@] is this acceptable to you? ] (]) 10:04, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::The problem is that TimothyBlue doesn't understand the difference between "Moldovan" and Romanian, as he replied me yesterday with an example comparing Russian to Ukrainian, which are 2 different languages with around 60-70% of intelligibility whilst Moldovan is just (better said was, as it's defunct already) another name for the Romanian language, as styled in the page ]: ''Moldovan was the local name for Romanian in Moldova'', Moldovan was mentioned in the wikipage ] because it actually was the official constitutional name from 1994 to 16th March 2023 but it's not anymore. |
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*::From the 2 sources Timothy wants to put back, one says Moldovan is the name of Romanian in Moldova and the another one says '''.''' So not only the source says Moldovan is a name for Romanian, it's obviously not even valid anymore as they say it was the name styled in the Constitution, but the Constitutional name has been changed to Romanian as well, with the support of the absolute majority of the ], only being opposed by the ] which is a minority coalition in the opposition. . |
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*::For context (you can check all of this in ]) only Romanian is taught in Moldovan schools (because ]) and there is no mention of the "Moldovan language" anywhere in any official text in Moldova, nor reliable source, as TimothyBlue defends the CIA World Factbook and the Encyclopedia sources because they mention Moldovan (like I've said, it was the constitutional name until 3 days ago) but both sources also say Moldovan is just the name of the Romanian language, stating clearly it's just a synonym for the same language. |
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*::That's why this RfC doesn't even make sense right now as the most useful sources for this country's language (their parliament, their constitution or their declaration of freedom) all 3 say Romanian language and don't even mention the synonym Moldovan language anymore, it was ok to style it as "Romanian (Moldovan)" when "Moldovan" was an official name, but right now it's not, and replacing their official constitution or parliament source just to put one that mentions Moldovan (what Timothy wants to do) makes no sense, as they're based on the older laws of Moldova, as the sources haven't been updated over the past 3 days when this change became official. |
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*::As a side note, this is the will of most of the ], and what this does is brighten up the Romanian-Moldovan relationship, as it has been an historical dispute since the moment the name of the Romanian language was changed to Moldovan language in 1994. That's why there are 2003 and 2013 Constitutional and Parliament modifications to state clearly Moldovan was just a glottonym/synonym of Romanian. But this is not an issue anymore as 3 days ago they've made this change even in the Constitutional name. If you check the official website of the ], ], ] and so on, you'll only find Romanian mentioned in the "choose your language" tab/section. So putting anything that's not Romanian in the official language section would be factually inaccurate and the aim of Misplaced Pages is to give precise information. ] (]) 14:47, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:That's fine, it should include the two removed references. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 12:11, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::{{replyto|TimothyBlue}} But do you realize both of these sources are not updated and therefore not valid at this moment? Let's check why: The CIA World Factbook says Moldovan/Romanian stating Moldovan is just a synonym for Romanian and the Britannica source goes even deeper by saying '''.''' So not only the source says Moldovan is a name for Romanian, it's obviously not even valid anymore as they say it was the name styled in the Constitution, '''but as you know already, 3 days ago, on 16th March 2023, the Constitutional name has been changed to Romanian as well'''. This has been done with the support of the absolute majority of the ], only being opposed by the ] which is a minority coalition in the opposition. . |
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*::So now we have the ], the ] and the ] calling the country's language ]. Why do you want to replace the most useful and reliable sources that exist regarding Moldova to 3rd party sites that are not even factually accurate since 16th March 2023? This is the real question. This RfC is based on a factually incorrect and defunct alternative name for a specific language. ] (]) 14:57, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Support''' This reminds me about the ] and ] discussion. These are also two names for the same language (]) and Moldovan isn't a language but a local name. And since now it's not even official anymore, there is no reason to include Moldovan, as the only official language Moldova has is Romanian. End of discussion. --] (]) 16:54, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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===Comments=== |
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*So as a quick resume, it wouldn't make sense to have "Moldovan language" in the infobox if the only official language Moldova has is ] stated by their declaration of independence and after 16th March 2023 it's stated in their own national constitution as well. The latter has been approved just 2 days ago in the ] () so this issue has been solved by themselves in their own parliament. I don't feel it's a thing Misplaced Pages has to discuss if no source saying "Moldovan language" is valid anymore because Moldova changed their constitution just 2 days ago to solve this historical dispute. --] (]) 19:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:Your claims are false, Moldovan has always been in the infobox. Romanian is the official language, it is not the only national language. What is happening here is that certain editors want Misplaced Pages to take a side in a long running dispute. It should not obscure the complicated situation by removing information. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 18:52, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::Okay and so? I've been wrong with the Wiki part, but can't you just understand that the ] has changed their own constitution to say the only official language Moldova has is Romanian? Here you have the official site of the Moldovan Parliament approving this change: https://multimedia.parlament.md/adoptat-de-parlament-sintagma-limba-romana-va-fi-introdusa-in-toate-legile-republicii-moldova/ |
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*::It was named Moldovan in their own national constitution from 1994 but in 16th March 2023 this has been changed to Romanian (see sources above) so the rest of what I've said is still true. This literally happened 2 days ago. It's a very recent change but it's the actual situation they have. Like I've said, at this point we're talking in Misplaced Pages about something the own Parliament of Moldova has solved already. There is no mention of "Moldovan" anymore. It's just Romanian. It was Moldovan until 16th March 2023 so I understand the previous sources and your point. But it's just not official anymore. ] (]) 19:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::And they mmight change it again. It does not change the reality. A vote in Parliment about the official language in legislation does not instantly mean Moldovan doesn't exist as a national langauge and it doesn't erase the complex relationship between the two languages. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 19:08, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::::Your claims are false, as ] is not a language (and it has never been, check the wiki page to see the historical background) it was just an alternative name for Romanian. Did you know "Moldovan" was introduced by the ] when Moldova was part of them? Check ] it's obvious that you don't even know about what are you talking about. I hope it's just this and you're not intentionally making biased edits, are you? |
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*::::I don't understand why do you want to ignore the official constitution changes the parliament of Moldova has done 2 days ago and you simply want to put something that doesn't exist anymore. It existed, as I've said, until 16th March 2023 when this was ratified by the ]. |
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*::::Will it change ever again? I really doubt it, but if that happens, be welcome to make that edit when it will happen. But right now, "Moldovan language" is just a dead name given the fact it has been removed from the Moldovan Constitution. Prove me wrong. ] (]) 19:20, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::::This is the point: You think Moldovan is not a language ("Your claims are false, as Moldovan is not a language") and want mentions of it erased. But Moldovan is a language, see ]. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 20:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::::::This is the point: You think Moldovan is a language and you didn't even read what it says in the page ] so let me copy and paste the lead of that page: |
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*::::::'''Moldovan, also known historically as Moldavian, was a local name of the Romanian language in Moldova.''' |
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*::::::And after 2 paragraphs you can find this, again just a copied text from the wikipage ] |
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*::::::'''During the time of the Soviet Union Moldovan, or, as it was called at the time, Moldavian, was the only term officially recognized. Soviet policy emphasized distinctions between Moldavians and Romanians based on their allegedly different histories. Its resolution declared Moldavian a distinct Romance language from Romanian.''' |
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*::::::All of that came from the page ]. So now let me ask you, is this a bias issue? Is this because you're the type of person that always wants to be right despite proven wrong?? The page literally says it's not a language but an alternative name for another language (and defunct as of nowadays) yet you still repeat Moldovan is a national language despite it has never been a language. This would be exactly like calling American to the English dialect of the United States. Seriously dude, what's your point on this? ] (]) 20:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::::::As you point out, it did exist and it does exist and Misplaced Pages should show this, not obscure it. The Moldovan paraliment changing the official language for the governemnt does not change history, it does not change the day to day reality, and it does not mean it does not exist. Russia claimed for hundreds of years that Ukrainian didn't exist, but that didn't change the fact that it did exist, regardless of how similar they are. Romanian nationalist claims that Moldovan doesn't exist because it is so similar to Romanian, is the same argument used by Russian nationalists to claim that Ukrainian doesn't exist because it is similar. Romanian nationalists want to obscure and twist the relationship between Moldova and Romania, Russian nationalists want to obscure and twist the relationship between Ukrain and Russia. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 20:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::::::::Do you realize you're supporting Russia right now? Romanian was split to "Moldovan" by the Russian Soviet Union and nowadays the own Moldovans want to unify the name of the language, just as explained in the page ], and that's exactly why the parliament has done that. It's funny how you bring up the Ukraine-Russia war thing here, and while you defend Ukraine, you are acting like a Russian nationalist right now. The actual parliament of Moldova is made by a pro-European coalition. The pro-Russian parties are the only ones who wanted to keep the name as "Moldovan language" just as stated in the ] source. |
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*::::::::] 3rd paragraph: '''Soviet policy emphasized distinctions between Moldavians and Romanians based on their allegedly different histories. Its resolution declared Moldavian a distinct Romance language from Romanian.''' |
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*::::::::It would be nice if next time you can actually read a little bit of the Wikipages you recommend for other to read. It literally says 1. Moldovan has never been a language but a name for the Romanian language and 2. The Soviet Union declared Moldovan a distinct language from Romanian because with the usage of Soviet Propaganda. ] (]) 21:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:How about using the "Languages type" series of parameters to create a section for contested languages (or something similar), with an explanatory footnote that explains the status of Molodovan? ] (]) 13:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::Thing is that, ''Moldovan'' is not even contested anymore. It used to be the Constitutional name from 1994 until 16th March 2023 when it was changed. The ], the ] and the ] all 3 say the one and only official language Moldova has, is the ]. |
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*::By checking the page ] this is properly shown and there is no language code (because it's a subdialect) and it clearly says it's just a synonym for Romanian. As an example, this would be like if ] or ] would be on the official language section in the infobox of ] or the ] instead of ] alone. For Moldova, this was on another level because ''Moldovan'' used to be in their Constitution for 28 years, but as mentioned before, this got finally changed 3 days ago. No official source mentions anything related to Moldovan if we talk about languages, the only mention with this term is related to ]. ] (]) 15:10, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::Already answered and refuted. Your responses are ] and ]. '''You have less than 9 mainspace edits''', popping up here right after Kapanol420 was blocked and your very similar posts are suspisious. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 15:11, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*::::No, this is not refuted. In fact, you have been unable to prove anything you have said. I've even shown how the sources you want to shoehorn (because they fit your own POV) are not valid anymore as they talk about the Constitution before the modification made 3 days ago. |
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*::::You literally want to change the official name found in the ], ] or ] sources to 3rd party sources that fit your own views, despite even such sources being contradictory right now as the Constitution they refer to has been changed 3 days ago. |
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*::::I'm just pointing out facts based on sources in a talk page. I'm not breaking any Misplaced Pages rule and I came here because I wanted to, expect even more people to come if you've made a senseless RfC wanting to insert again ontradictory sources. And if you are suspect of my account go to ] and create a new section. I've checked your edits and your profile and you seem to be passionate about Russian and Soviet articles, thus giving an indicator you want to make POV biased edits. , the only ones who opposed to the Constitutional change to ] were the ones of the ]. ] (]) 15:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''': Misplaced Pages should not be taking sides in the ], Misplaced Pages should not allow nationalist partisans to distort, remove and obscure information to suit their opinions and ] motives. Navarran94 9 mainspace edits (and any possibly undisclosed accounts) and their conduct here shows they are ] to build an encyclopedia. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 15:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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*:'''Comment''': Exactly because Misplaced Pages shouldn't be taking sides over that controversy with biased ] views, the only way to make this neutral is to use rationale and check what reliable official sources have to say, and all of them say just Romanian. Just as the ], ] and ] say in their sources. Even the 3rd party sources you defend and even the page ] clearly states it was a defunct local name/alternative name of the Romanian language. Which is not even valid anymore since 16th March 2023. |
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::You've shown your lack of acknowledge comparing this with the Russian-Ukrainian language conflict, which are two different languages and not two names for the same language unlike Romanian-Moldovan. The actual source is based on the ]. There is nothing more valuable than that for anything related to Moldova. |
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::And {{ping|TimothyBlue}} will you stop making these personal attacks agasint me based on your own assumptions? Do you really want me to report you to an administrator for breaking ] / ] for the fourth time in 24 hours? I'm only engaging in a talk page while I'm showing reliable sñurces. I'm not editing pages without sources, neither making disruptive edits nor breaking any rule ] as you falsely claimed for the 3rd time already. --] (]) 17:20, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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{{abot}} |
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*:'''Comment''': Coming here at the of the debate awkwardly but, I just want to point out this "small" thing. One of the most monumental works in the Romanian language significant not only for its linguistic aspect but also for history is "Letopisețul Țării Moldovei" <ref>https://ro.wikisource.org/Letopise%C8%9Bul_%C8%9B%C4%83r%C3%A2i_Moldovei,_de_c%C3%A2nd_s-au_desc%C4%83lecat_%C8%9Bara</ref> which lacks and English language page on Misplaced Pages at the moment. It was written between 1642 and 1647 by Moldavian chronicler, Grigore Ureche, but the original was lost and only later editions copied by monks with their own additions and later chroniclers survived and we were able to reconstitute the original through their works. In the opening chapters, Ureche gave a short description of the founding of Moldavia and the origins of the Moldavians in which he underlined the Moldavian's latin origins constantly mentioning their Roman roots. While Ureche said he was speaking "Moldovan" he mentioned that the differences between "Ungureni" and "Munteni, Transylvanian Romanians and Wallachians respectively, were little adding that they were all speaking the same language i.e. Romanian, their names were tied only to geographical points and to differentiate each other, giving the example of how Wallachia gained its name, according to him, from a Duke called "Vlachus" (Flachus) and Moldovans got their name from a dog called "Molda" which drowned in a river while hunting for Aurochs together with her master, the legendary founder of Moldavia, Dragoș, which named the river and the country after his dog. Later chroniclers and monks that took care of his work and added their own passages used the terms "Moldovan" and "Romanian" (referring to the language and the identity of the people) interchangeably adding to the fact that Moldovan is nothing more than a regional name for someone speaking Romanian like how someone from the United States speaks in English not American. |
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::While the synonimic nature is real, the nature of the "Moldovan identity" has become way too politicized after the 19th and 20th centuries in particular thanks to Russian expansionism which used existing Moldovan-Wallachian animosity in order to prevent the creation of a Romanian state and later to spread communism. The Moldovan language is key to the Moldovan identity. What is extremely funny to me is that ethnic Russian politicians from Moldova which are the champions of Moldovan identity barely use Romanian in public and even the Romanian they know they speak it poorly. They resort only to speaking Russian. It's also extremely convenient that the backlash to the new law which was passed by Moldovan MPs completely ignores the Ruling no.36/2013 ] (]) 23:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC)https://www.constcourt.md/ccdocview.php?l=ro&tip=hotariri&docid=476] (]) 23:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC) which decided that "the Moldovan language in the Latin alphabet" is equivalent to Romanian and the name should be changed from Moldovan to Romanian eliminating the "Latin alphabet". It's quite sad that it took Moldovan politicians 10 years to implement this decision but nonetheless, its good that this is happening. Most people seem to have forgotten that in 1991 when Moldova gained independence, in its declaration, the official language of the state was "Romanian" ] (]) 23:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC)https://www.constcourt.md/public/files/file/Baza%20legala/Declaratia_en.pdf] (]) 23:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC) but in 1994 after defeat in the Transnistrian War, Russia forced Moldova to modify its constitution bringing back the Moldovan language into play. |
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::I want to apologise for citing two sources (the first two citations) in Romanian, I couldn't find English translation for those. |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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== New source for Moldova's official language == |
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The actual source is from ] (very legit source) but I think it can be replaced for an even better source, the official ] website. This is the link: https://multimedia.parlament.md/adoptat-de-parlament-sintagma-limba-romana-va-fi-introdusa-in-toate-legile-republicii-moldova/ as a side note, it also says all official texts that included the denomination "Moldovan language" will be effectively replaced to Romanian language. ] (]) 19:47, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:No one is disputing that the Moldovan parliment declared Romanian the official langauge for government use. |
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:'''This does not mean that Moldovan doesn't exist as a national language'''. Attempting to obscure information about their relationship and history does not improve the article and it does not help readers understand the situation; The only thing it does is take sides in a nationalist POV push. The government descision does not mean Moldovan disappears from use or never existed. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b> // ] :: ] </b></span> 20:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::Dude, what are you talking about? Did you even read 2 phrases of the wikipage ]? '''Moldovan, also known historically as Moldavian, was a local name of the Romanian language in Moldova.''' So it literally says it was the local name of the Romanian language (not even valid anymore, as it's a defunct name) yer you still claim Moldovan is a separate language. What's your point here? Your arguments make no sense. |
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::Your edit attempts to shoehorn "Moldovan language" seem to be the ones coming from someone with a nationalist POV push. It's crystal clear that Moldovan was just a local name and not a language as you claim. As it has never been one. You can find all of this perfectly explained here: ] Wikipage. |
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::And I would kindly ask you to stop with your disruptive behavior as I've just asked for a source replacement here, for an even better one. If you want to talk about your own POV you have the section from above, as you've made it. ] (]) 20:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Reminds me of Filipino. The govt wanted to downplay that they were imposing one ethnic language, Tagalog, over the others by calling it "Filipino" and claiming that it was a different language. This ran into a speed bump because Filipino citizens are allowed translators in court if they do not speak fluent Filipino. One defendant demanded a translator because he only spoke Tagalog. The judge ruled that providing a translator would be frivolous because Filipino ''is'' Tagalog. |
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== No such thing as "too long to read comfortably" as long as the information is relevant == |
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There is a difference here, in that Moldavian is written in Cyrillic. Not that that makes it a language, of course, but it does affect govt publications. I presume that that aspect of the standard is already defunct, at least in govt-controlled areas, in which case all that's left is the choice of name. I think "Romanian (officially 'Moldovan')" should be adequate, but added "pending change in law" for clarification. ] (]) 20:07, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|I presume that that aspect of the standard is already defunct, at least in govt-controlled areas, in which case all that's left is the choice of name.}} that is correct. It is on Moldova's constitution that "Moldovan" is to be written in the Latin alphabet. This alphabet portion will be removed once Romanian replaces Moldovan as it will be superfluous. And that Filipino/Tagalog note is an interesting addition. ] ] ] 20:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::"Moldavian" as you call it is Stalin's invention. At first, the Moldovan SSR adopted Romanian orthography, but when exporting revolution to Romania failed, Stalin invented bastardized Cyrillic Moldovan. That is, it was not a return to Cyrillic Romanian. "Moldavian" was never a real language, only an orthographic tool of a totalitarian state to isolate the same people divided between Romania and Moldova. ]<small> ►]</small> 01:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::Well, to attribute this "invention" to Stalin would be a superoversimplification. Please see the detailed exposition of the issue in "]". There were plenty of moldovenists even before Stalin grabbed power. ] (]) 15:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC) |
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The message "This article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably" is just silly. ] (]) 20:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 March 2023 == |
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:I suggest you read over ] <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">]</span>🍁 20:15, 10 October 2024 (UTC) |
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{{edit extended-protected|Moldova|answered=yes}} |
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Add information related to the promulgation of the law that makes Romanian the only term by which the official language of the Republic of Moldova should be addressed. Source: https://presedinte.md/rom/comunicate-de-presa/presedinta-maia-sandu-a-promulgat-legea-care-confirma-ca-limba-de-stat-a-republicii-moldova-este-cea-romna ] (]) 17:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:I am not sure if there's still another step in the legal process. The 30-day period since 16/22 March (not sure when does it start) has not ended yet. I imagine things will become clearer in the next few days. It's literally been hours since Sandu promulgated the hour. I please ask users to drop the impatience. Misplaced Pages will eventually be updated, in under a month. All of this is just a waste of time for something that is going to happen anyway. ] ] ] 19:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::The 30 day period will begin after the law gets published in the Official Gazette, which should happen most likely tommorow (seems to take place the day after promulgation). At that time the law will come into effect. The 30 day period is more of a time limit for the modifications to be realised: that is actually re-writing the constitution. This means the effects could be materialised earlier than the 30 day limit. You are right though, there is a bit of hurry that shouldn't be, but it's fueled by those that want to maintain the concept of the Moldovan Language as the language of Moldova regardless of the coming change. Hopefully this drama will be soon over. |
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::] (]) 21:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on Nov 3, 2024 == |
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== Sandu signed into law that Moldova's language is Romanian == |
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Please replace ] with ] in the first sentence: '''Moldova''', officially the '''Republic of Moldova''', is a ] country in ], on the northeastern corner of the ]. |
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"The President of Moldova, Maia Sandu, signed a law on Wednesday, which establishes the "Romanian language" in all laws of the country instead of "Moldovan" and "maternal" languages." https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2023/03/22/7158464/ ] (]) 09:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC) |
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The ] are located south of the ]. |
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== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion == |
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The ] are not in the vicinity of ]. |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: |
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I believe the author meant to speak about the ] instead of the ]. |
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* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2023-03-23T15:13:28.090939 | Moldova Product Exports (2019).svg --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 15:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC) |
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The intended description of ] located "on the northeastern corner of the ]" is correct. ] (]) 02:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== "...on the northeast corner of the Balkans"? No. "The Carpathians", perhaps. == |
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== Language law published in Monitorul Official == |
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The first sentence of the lede states <i>"Moldova, officially the Republic of Moldova, is a landlocked country in Eastern Europe, <b>on the northeastern corner of the Balkans</b>"</i> (emphasis added). This is a peculiar claim, first because "the Balkan states" generally refers to Bulgaria and the nations on the eastern shore of the Adriatic Sea (Serbia, Kosovo, North Macedonia, etc.), which Moldova is nowhere near. But there is, in fact another mountain range that lies <u>between</u> the Baltic Mountains and Moldova: the Carpathians. So to describe Moldova as being "on the northeast corner of the Balkans" is to dismiss the fact that there are at least 150 miles/240km of plains, plus the Carpathian Range, <u>between</u> the Baltic Range and the closest point of Moldova (although there is still 50 miles/80km between the Carpathians and the closest part of Moldova, so "on the corner" is a stretch). If no one can argue persuasively why this should not be changed, I will correct it.<br>] (]) 00:18, 5 November 2024 (UTC) |
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The law changing all references to “Romanian language” has been published in the Monitorul Official today () so we can finally go ahead and change the references. ] (]) 10:50, 24 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{u|De wafelenbak}}, as the law project stated, legislative changes will take place within 30 days of the law entering into force. That was only today. When the constitution is changed we will see lots of press releases and articles about it. Right now there are not any, because it has not happened. ] ] ] 17:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::By the way, please do not revert . Because, as you say the official language formally remains Moldovan and the statement in question is formally false. Or you expand the text in this place with detailed explanation. ] (]) 18:06, 24 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::I interpreted that edit as if you thought the 1991 declaration of independence was outdated because of the 2023 changes. Apologies. ] ] ] 18:13, 24 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== Etymology section - German name of Moldova River is incorrect == |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 May 2023 == |
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The etymology section notes that the German name for the Moldova River is Moldau. Moldau is the German name for the Vltava River in Czechia. The German for Moldova is Moldova. See the Deutches article on the Moldova River: https://de.wikipedia.org/Moldova_(Fluss). The article is protected beyond my edit level. Is anyone with higher access motivated to correct this small thing? ] (]) 22:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC) |
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{{edit extended-protected|Moldova|answered=no}} |
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] (]) 16:54, 4 May 2023 (UTC) |
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scrieti la gini index 25,7 intrati pe linkul de la bibliografie] (]) 16:54, 4 May 2023 (UTC) |
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The etymology section notes that the German name for the Moldova River is Moldau. Moldau is the German name for the Vltava River in Czechia. The German for Moldova is Moldova. See the Deutches article on the Moldova River: https://de.wikipedia.org/Moldova_(Fluss). The article is protected beyond my edit level. Is anyone with higher access motivated to correct this small thing? Catercorn (talk) 22:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) (talk) 07:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Done, thank you @LeinadWalter! 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 15:05, 23 September 2024 (UTC)