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Revision as of 13:43, 25 November 2023 editAriTheHorse (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers1,345 edits Notification: proposed deletion of Johnny Blaze.Tag: Twinkle← Previous edit Latest revision as of 02:52, 24 December 2024 edit undoBarntToust (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users6,863 edits →Very sorry for your loss: hate to copyedit a sympathy message but it's not a stretch to say Locke Cole's mother was an amazing person, as are all loving parentsTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit 
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:You don't get to treat other editors that way on talkpages. You've been around long enough to know that. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 03:30, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
::So it's OK to lie? Got it. —] • ] • ] 04:03, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
::I'm assuming it was the "lie" comment, right? Or was it something else I did? —] • ] • ] 05:37, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:::@] Not sure if you missed this, but before I wade back in I'd like to answer to this before I find myself blocked for not knowing what I did wrong. —] • ] • ] 03:06, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Yes, that's what it was. You can disagree with people about things like victims lists without treating other editors who have the temerity to disagree with you like that. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 03:37, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


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== The lie ==
<div class="ivmbox-image" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em; flex: 1 0 40px; max-width: 100px">]</div>
Allegedly our sources at {{la|2023 Lewiston shootings}} don't discuss the victims, and yet, in just half an hour of going through the first 8 sources in use ], only 13% of the checked sources (that's 1 out of 8) didn't name any victims, and 25% (that's 2 out of 8) didn't name them all. The other 6 sources (75%) name them all, often in multiple articles.
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# Source: https://apnews.com/article/lewiston-maine-shootings-49da6d06a8b5a15d3b619b3927bc33ff
##VS: https://apnews.com/article/maine-shooting-victims-1be7d14e90ef6c91ca23819163d29f3e
# Source: https://www.sunjournal.com/2023/10/25/multiple-victims-reported-following-shootings-in-lewiston/
##VS: https://www.sunjournal.com/2023/10/26/lives-lost-in-lewiston-theres-nothing-he-wouldnt-do-for-anybody/
##VS: https://www.sunjournal.com/lewiston-mass-killing/ - top of page highlights victims on their landing page for the mass shooting event, also contains links to full obituaries right at the top
# Source: https://themessenger.com/news/maine-mass-shooting-ruger-sfar-308-battle-rifle
##VS: https://themessenger.com/news/lewiston-maine-mass-shooting-victims-18-killed
##VS: https://themessenger.com/news/lewiston-mass-shooting-victim-keith-macneir-visiting-maine-celebrate-birthday
##VS: https://themessenger.com/news/lewiston-mass-shooting-maine-mechanic-bob-violette-dead
##VS: https://themessenger.com/news/beloved-asl-interpreter-helped-deaf-maine-pandemic-lewiston-mass-shooting-victims-joshua-seal
##VS: https://themessenger.com/news/father-son-maine-shooting-victims-lewiston-bowling-alley-young
# Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lewiston-shooting-timeline-maine-attack-rcna122290
##VS: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/lewiston-maine-massacre-manhunt-suspect-rcna122436#rcrd23551
##VS: https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/remembering-those-killed-in-the-lewiston-maine-mass-shooting-196584005652 - not only were they also presented in text, the nationally aired nightly news which is also re-broadcast on YouTube and other platforms, included a segment on the victims
# Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/maine-shooting-idAFKBN31S064
##VS: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/maine-shooting-victims-pipefitter-who-loved-wrestling-father-son-bowling-league-2023-10-27/ - full list with additional bio details
##VS: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/maine-shooting-victims-father-son-out-bowling-night-bar-employee-2023-10-26/ - partial list prior to the full list being released by officials
# Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/26/at-least-16-killed-dozens-injured-in-mass-shooting-in-us-state-of-maine
##VS: None found
# Source: https://france24.com/en/live-news/20231027-maine-city-deserted-as-residents-hole-up-during-hunt-for-killer
##VS: https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231027-manhunt-for-maine-mass-shooter-extends-to-second-night - partial victim list
# Source: https://www.wmtw.com/article/where-robert-card-lewiston-maine-gunman-body-was-found/45672278
##VS: https://www.wmtw.com/article/victims-lewiston-maine-mass-shootings/45656677
##VS: https://www.wmtw.com/article/lewiston-mass-shooting-remembering-victims-stories/45657528


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I sure hope pointing out lies doesn't result in blocks all the time around here, or we'll never have anyone telling the truth. I was going to go through as many sources as I could before bed, but apparently since I won't be participating for three days, it probably won't matter. <s>Fuck you very much {{ping|Acroterion}}</s>. —] • ] • ] 04:14, 2 November 2023 (UTC)


</div>
:I don't understand why you would use the methodology you present above, it's rather confounding. Of the enumerated sources you list above (all which come from the article), zero list the victims. So you gather articles from the same publisher that do list victims to make your point? How is that supposed to be convincing?
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:I guess it's probably not worth trying to understand, as, based on your comments, it sure doesn't appear like you have the intentions of editing in good faith. ] (]) 04:40, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
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::On Misplaced Pages, a news "source" is a news outlet, not a news article. All these sources (and more) have given us articles about the dead or mentioned them in broader articles about the shooting. This is ''definitely'' worth understanding and Locke ''probably'' should have been allowed to tell you himself. ] (]) 03:51, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:::No, that's inaccurate, it's not that simple. Please read WP:Verifiability :
:::"...the word ''source'' has four related meanings:
:::* The work itself (the article, book: "That book looks like a useful source for this article.") and works like it ("An obituary can be a useful biographical source", "A recent source is better than an old one")
:::* The creator of the work (the writer, journalist: "What do we know about that source's reputation?") and people like them ("A medical researcher is a better source than a journalist for..").
:::* The publication (for example, the newspaper, journal, magazine: "That source covers the arts.") and publications like them ("A newspaper is not a reliable source for medical facts").
:::* The publisher of the work (for example, ]: "That source publishes reference works.") and publishers like them ("An academic publisher is a good source of reference works")."
:::He would have been allowed to tell me himself, had he not gone out with a "Fuck you very much". ] (]) 04:06, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
::::It is that simple, in a ] sense. The creator, the publisher, the publication. I agree one should never tell an admin anything like that. I was once blocked this hard for telling one to **** my ****. I was having a bad day, lashed out and was eventually let back in to apologize and move on. I hope the same happens here. And I hope Cole means it. ] (]) 04:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::The creator, the publisher, the publication, AND the work itself. ] (]) 04:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::Not in ''this'' context, though. ] (]) 04:23, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::No, that's not how I used the term. ] (]) 04:29, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I know. That's how ''he'' used it. Hence the misunderstanding about whether the underlying "lie" is a lie. ] (]) 04:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::I understand that. Does he? We're only guessing at this point, as he let his anger get the best of him before we could find out. ] (]) 04:43, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::If he's reading this, he understands now. It's not complicated and he's not dumb. Anyway, I think we can agree that using more precise words going forward (such as "outlets/publications" and "articles/works") could help make this a substantially less infuriating place. ] (]) 04:53, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
::::@] understood my meaning for "sources", and ] is exactly the meaning I was using. But in so far as ] goes, these would all be "publishers" or "publications". I'd continue my work on the sources listed in that revision to make the point, but it doesn't seem like you're accepting that interpretation, so much like ] (where I demonstrated how the overwhelming majority of US mass shooting articles include names of victims in some form or another), it will likely remain incomplete. —] • ] • ] 05:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


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==Very sorry for your loss==
I'm so sorry to hear it, Locke Cole. ] &#124; ] 20:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC).

Seconded. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 23:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:@], @] thank you for the kind words, the past six months have been exhausting and I wish I could say it was over, but there's affairs to settle and an estate to try and save. If I'm lucky, things will be sorted out by what would have been her 78th. —] • ] • ] 17:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
::For what it's worth, we lost my mother three years ago, but under circumstances that were easier. She was 96 and died of heart failure without a long illness (she drove her car a few weeks prior and was caring for herself days prior). Cancer sucks, no question. Hang in there. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 17:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
:::And I lost my own mother to cancer on June 21st of this year. Cancer does suck. My sympathies to you and your family. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::My heartfelt sympathies to you and your family as you deal with such a great loss of an amazing person. to the hottest fires in hell with cancer. <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">]]</span> 02:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

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:Locke Cole, you are, of course, welcome to respond, but I'm trying to deescalate this discussion so it doesn't just become aspersions cast between two editors who disagree. I don't think any action will come out of this but you should know that this discussion was started. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets closed. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 06:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

== Apologies ==

Hey Locke, just thought that I'd apologize for being an asshole over at the DRV and then escalating the situation by taking it to ANI, I'm not exactly sure what happened. I hope we are on common ground now, and I'll probably take a break from the Brian Thompon topic as a whole. I'll also keep you and your family in my prayers, as I can't imagine your loss. Wishing you a prosperous new year, ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

:As much as I appreciate the apology, I needed to do, and be, better. I wish you well in whatever you do on the project from here on out. —] • ] • ] 03:54, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::You too. :) ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 18:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 02:52, 24 December 2024

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Very sorry for your loss

I'm so sorry to hear it, Locke Cole. Bishonen | tålk 20:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC).

Seconded. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bishonen, @Mandruss thank you for the kind words, the past six months have been exhausting and I wish I could say it was over, but there's affairs to settle and an estate to try and save. If I'm lucky, things will be sorted out by what would have been her 78th. —Locke Cole • t • c 17:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
For what it's worth, we lost my mother three years ago, but under circumstances that were easier. She was 96 and died of heart failure without a long illness (she drove her car a few weeks prior and was caring for herself days prior). Cancer sucks, no question. Hang in there. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
And I lost my own mother to cancer on June 21st of this year. Cancer does suck. My sympathies to you and your family. Liz 06:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
My heartfelt sympathies to you and your family as you deal with such a great loss of an amazing person. to the hottest fires in hell with cancer. BarntToust 02:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

ANI discussion

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. EF 02:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Locke Cole, you are, of course, welcome to respond, but I'm trying to deescalate this discussion so it doesn't just become aspersions cast between two editors who disagree. I don't think any action will come out of this but you should know that this discussion was started. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets closed. Liz 06:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies

Hey Locke, just thought that I'd apologize for being an asshole over at the DRV and then escalating the situation by taking it to ANI, I'm not exactly sure what happened. I hope we are on common ground now, and I'll probably take a break from the Brian Thompon topic as a whole. I'll also keep you and your family in my prayers, as I can't imagine your loss. Wishing you a prosperous new year, EF 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

As much as I appreciate the apology, I needed to do, and be, better. I wish you well in whatever you do on the project from here on out. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:54, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
You too. :) EF 18:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)