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Moor from Mauri

I frankly don't understand why this article is separated from the one for Mauri, since the word Moor is originally from Mauri, which was used by Romans, and by the native Mauri (inhabitants of the Kingdom of Mauretania and the Roman provinces that ensued from them) to designate themselves, indicating as Gabriel Camps suggests that it may be originally a Berber word that went into Greek then Latin. The claim of the first paragraph of the article that it was an "exonym" in that sense, is not accurate, and much less is the claim that it was an equivalent of Muslim. The term was and remained much more strongly associated with Northwest Africa and its proxy regions (e.g. Andalusia) than any other place, and a cursory search in the literature is sufficient indication, that it was mainly a geographical term that was sometimes abused and generalized, but most often retained its original significance (check the number of hits for "Moorish Morocco" vs "Moorish Egypt" or any other region, on Google Books or Google Scholar for instance). --Ideophagous (talk) 10:23, 03 April 2021 (UTC+2)

Abu Yusuf and Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada are named

Academic sources clearly name both Abu Yusuf of the Benimerines and al Murtada of the Almohades.

Can someone please label this image > Moors#/media/File:MoorandChristianBattle.png with Abu Yusuf's name? 'Abu Yusuf, the emir of the Benimerines, is defeated in Morocco by Christian knights bearing the banner of Holy Mary' >https://books.google.co.tz/books?redir_esc=y&id=7Q7tDcPIEgMC&q=abu+yusuf#v=snippet&q=abu%20yusuf&f=false

Rightfully restore the pictures of Umar al Murtada as well > https://books.google.co.tz/books?redir_esc=y&id=7Q7tDcPIEgMC&q=abu+yusuf#v=snippet&q=al-Murtada&f=false. 154.74.127.113 (talk) 04:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

idk why my previous edit request was deleted but. but I think the sources in it are relevant so I will post them again. to further prove it's al murtada

Please bring back the image that was removed here https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Moors&oldid=1254751943

This image was removed after an Afrocentrist YouTube channel spread the baseless claim that this photo doesn't depict Almohad Sultan but rather Visigothic or Levantine scholars in Spain. Their only argument was the fact that the poems don't mention him by name.

I will provide the historical context and evidence to prove that this is false and the person depicted is indeed Almohad sultan Al-Murtada.

Cantiga 181 of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Alfonso X is titled "The Banner of the Virgin Defeats the Moors at Marrakesh".

source:

The text goes as follows:

The King of Marrakech was at war with another king.

The other king had crossed the Morabe River with a huge army and had laid siege to the city.

The king of Marrakech was advised to go out from the city with his best warriors to do battle. He was to take the banner of Holy Mary and to be accompanied by Christians carrying crosses.

The King followed this advice, and when the banner of Holy Mary was unfurled, the army of the other king was defeated. Many of his men were killed and they lost their tents and possessions.

others, seeing the banner and crosses, fled in great haste.

In this way, the Virgin helped her friends, even though they were of another faith.

The poem talks about the battle between the Almohads and Marinids that took place near Marrakesh in the year 1262. When the Marinid sultan Abu Yusuf attempted to invade Marrakesh which was still held by the last Almohad sultan Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada.

source:

The historian Joseph F O'Callaghan talks about this event in his book. "Alfonso X and the Cantigas de Santa Maria: A Poetic Biography". In Chapter 7 "The Rise of the Benimerines" page 135 he says:

The invasion of the peninsula in mid-May 1275 by the Benimerines, a new Muslim dynasty from Morocco, dictated the urgency of the king’s movements. The Bani Marin or Marinids, whom the Castilians knew as the Benimerines, rose to power in Morocco on the ashes of the disintegrating Almohad empire. When Alfonso X sent his expedition to Salé in 1260, Abu Yusuf Ya‘qub b. ‘Abd al-Haqq (1258-1286), the emir of the Benimerines, was establishing his rule in that region and occupied Salé after the Castilians abandoned it.

CSM 169.53 described Abu Yusuf as lord of Salé—“o sennor de Cale.” His struggle to overthrow the Almohads extended over a period of years and was not completed until 1269.”

With some satisfaction CSM 181, without mentioning his name, relates the story of a major defeat that Abu Yusuf suffered when he besieged Marrakech—“na cidade de Marrocos que e mui grand’ e fremosa” (6)—at an unknown date, perhaps in 1262 or 1264.?” This richly

illuminated cantiga shows the encampment of the turbanned and bearded Benimerines, armed with shields, lances, and pennants (panel 1). Abu Yusuf’s opponent, presumably al-Murtada, the last of the Almohad caliphs (d. 1268), is depicted with turban and beard and sitting crosslegged as his counselors urge him to give battle, but first to order the Christians of the city to bring out the banner of the Virgin Mary and the crosses from the church:

E porend’ os de Marrocos al Rei tal conssello davan que saisse da cidade con béa gent’ esleuda

D’armas e que mantenente cono outro rei lidasse

e logo fora da vila a sina sacar mandasse

da Virgen Santa Mana, e que per ren non dultasse que os logo non vencesse, pois la ouvesse tenduda;

Demais, que sair fezesse dos crischdos o concello conas cruzes da eigreja (17-26).

In the panels (3-6) portraying the confrontation of the two armies, a body of mounted warriors dressed in mail and bowled helmets carries two crosses and a red banner showing the Virgin Mary seated on a gold throne with her Child in her lap.*® Clearly these are Christian soldiers in the service of the Almohad caliph. Filled with great fear when they saw the Christian symbols, the enemy fled in disorder, leaving their tents behind. “Many of that ugly and bearded people died there”—“‘e morreu _y muita gente dessa fea e barvuda’” (33). The poet concluded triumphantly that Mary helps her friends, even those of another faith, who appealed to her:

E assi Santa Maria ajudou a seus amigos,

pero que d’ outra lei eran, a britar seus éemigos

que, macar que eran muitos, nonos pregaron dous figos, e asst for ssa mercee de todos mui connoguda (40-43).

(text might have errors because it was copied from a pdf)

source:

As you can see. the panel does indeed depict Almohad sultan al-Murtada consulting his counselors including christian ones from Castille as the Merinids were shared enemies for both Almohads and Castille. Castille was allied with the Almohad sultan Al-Murtada. And this poem talks about how the christians convinced him to let the christian soldiers carry the banner of Holy Virgin Mary. Which according to Castillian was the reason the Almohad army defeated the Marinid army.

I hope the image is brought back as I have provided extensive evidence. And please be careful with Afrocentric vandalization of such articles. AdamElMerini (talk) 12:49, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Was a consensus reached? As a bot cleared and archived the previous topic for some reason? 154.74.127.126 (talk) 08:29, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Consensus with the melanated Anglo-Saxons with inferiority complex, a.k.a. Afrocentrists? Are you kidding? The We Wuz Kangz live in a parallel universe. A very WASP one, hilariously. C'mon, Misplaced Pages shouldn't depend on the whims, biases and cynical lies of an Afrocentrist YT channel like "The King's Monologue", the guy who believes that the Moors from the Cantigas are Visigoths (lol, lol, lol) or Levantines, and that the Fayum portraits are 500 years old ( lol, lol, lol). If the Moors being black is an Afrocentrist tenet, that's not Misplaced Pages's problem. 85.84.57.60 (talk) 11:57, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

The person who made Unsourced Claim

The user https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/2001:1C00:1E20:D900:D108:E292:4ECE:682B who created topic https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Moors#Unsourced_Claim, was stopped for 1 year, because of "Persistent long-time pushing of unreliable sources, bludgeoning of talkpages, block evasion and egregious personal attacks". Therefore should be disregarded, and the picture which was removed on https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Moors&diff=prev&oldid=1254751943 to be restored. 154.74.127.126 (talk) 08:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

1. "Cantiga 181 - The Banner of the Virgin Defeats the Moors at Marrakesh". The Oxford Cantigas de Santa Maria Database. Center for the Study of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Oxford University.
2. "Cantiga 181 of the Cantigas de Santa Maria of Alfonso X - The Banner of the Virgin Defeats the Moors at Marrakesh".
3. O'Callaghan, Joseph (1998). Alfonso X and the Cantigas de Santa Maria: A Poetic Biography. Brill. pp. 135–136. ISBN 9789004110236.

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