Talk:List of sovereign states: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 23:45, 5 July 2003 editMartinHarper (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers24,927 edits Nice work!← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 04:29, 27 December 2024 edit undoHKLionel (talk \| contribs)185 edits →Chinland and Wa State: ReplyTag: Reply
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	What about historical but presently defunct countries? -- ]
			{{Notice\|This list has a detailed ]. Please '''do not add new entries without prior discussion'''. Items that do not fit the set criteria, such as ], the ] and polities normally classified as ], ]s, ]s or ] will be removed.}}
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			{{Notice\|This list has a detailed ]. Please '''do not change the categorizations in the table without prior discussion'''. Changes to the organization of the list of states that go against ] will be reverted. For more details on the organization criteria, please review ].}}
	I must say that I object to getting rid of the CountriesX system
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	completely. I don't mind <i>much</i> seeing all the countries here on this page listed in a table (though see below). But I think there was no harm in leaving the individual pages alone.
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	We could have the letters in the table (the big A, big B, etc.) point to individual pages for that group of countries.
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	My objection to having all the countries here on this page are two-fold.
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	First, this page is now a giant monstrosity. Any list over a certain length ought to be broken down alphabetically, I think. For example, over on ] and ], I anticipate that we would prefer, eventually, to not have a huge and useless list, but instead to break it down alphabetically <i>and</i> perhaps by era (date of birth, for example). But in any event, even if we did have one big page of actors, we should also have alphabetically-broken-down pages, etc.
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	Second, I think that the use of tables for this sort of thing ought to be discouraged, for the same reason that people complained (rightfully so, I think) about the ] page. Yes, it looks nicer, but it also makes it harder to use the data for other purposes (by other projects, for example), and it makes it harder for newcomers. Simple straight text is really nice for many reasons.
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	Well, it is broken down alphabetically, as it ought to be. :-) But why on separate pages? I don't think it's a monstrosity at all. I like being able to see all the countries in the world from one page; it's kind of a pain to have to click through to the "CountriesA" page just to find the entry on ]. I'll grant you it would be nicer if it were alphabetized horizontally rather than vertically. That wouldn't take long to do, though.
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	As to the second objection, well, since I was the first one to object to the ] page format, I guess you're right. How about ]? --]
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	I like the second form better. It's more accesible for devices
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	that do not render tables well --AstroNomer
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	It would be nice to have some sort of a jumpbar on the top of the pages
	A B C D E F ..
	where clicking on A takes you to the A's, etc..
	I'm not sure if this can be done with this software (Wiki) ]
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	<b>28/05/2001</b> - I've moved the country listing by continent to ]. I think this makes navigation easier and helps to ] -- WojPob
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	I agree, WojPob.

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	My understanding was that the images on the CIA site are also in the public domain and could be used. LDC objected to the format (jpg), though, saying the quality was not high enough. Personally, I think the qualities of ''these particular'' jpgs are high enough, and would have added them to the site if not for my concerns about the size of them and the resulting download times for people like me on dialup. :-) the relevant part of the CIA site starts at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/indexgeo.html; an arbitrary example of one of their maps is http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html. But I have to admit that my main interest is in where the country lies in relation to its neighbors, and that this is of course :-) not what everyone will be interested in--other people may want to know population distribution, altitude, etc. And others may object to the somewhat cartoonish quality of the CIA maps, with their bold, thick boundaries. (One suspects that for the CIA every issue is so clearly defined....) --KQ
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			* ], ], ], ]
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			* Discussion of criteria
	As Tim Shell pointed out, the U.S. Department of State has published information in the public domain at http://www.state.gov/r/pa/bgn/ ; all of it is free (as in beer and speech) for use ''unless'' it has a copyright notice posted. I've added much information on ], attempting to integrate it into the CIA info (which is also in the public domain) and have added a new subpage (apologies to Larry), "foreign relations." I had a question for the general Misplaced Pages public, though: the Department of State has yet more information specific to the relations between the United States and Albania. I have not added it, as (IMHO) it seems too specific and begs for equally detailed information about its relations with other countries, which I can not provide. Do you think this is the correct approach? --KQ
			** ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ]
			* ]
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			# ]
	But why not? If the information is factual & encyclopedic, who cares if it's very detailed? You might not want to, though, just because it doesn't seem worth the effort. I could understand that.
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			{{Old moves
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			* RM, List of sovereign states → List of countries, '''No consensus''', 2 November 2016, ]
			* RM, List of sovereign states → List of countries, '''Not moved''', 7 February 2022, ]
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			* RM, List of countries → List of sovereign states and dependent territories, '''No consensus''', 19 November 2008, ]
			* RM, List of countries → List of sovereign states, '''Redirected''', 21 November 2008, ]
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			__TOC__

			== North and South Korea's names ==
	I do think that this poses a problem for subpages. :-) You could put it under ], I guess. --]
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	I'm coming around to your views about subpages, I think. I wouldn't mind changing all of them in the "countries of the world" context (albania/government etc.) except changing them presents the new problem of what to change them to: "Government of Albania" or "Albanian government"? As inconvenient as they are, subpage titles still fit the most information the most concisely.

			Should the reference to Congo be changed to:
	I think you're right about the US-Albania foreign relations: probably it is too specific to be of much interest to most people. --KQ
	----
	] should not be included here yet. The peace treaty of 1996 deferred independence talks till 2001, and most governments considers Chechen territory part of ] -- ]

			Korea, Republic of
	----
	] is, ] should also be.

			Korea, Deomocratic People's Republic of
	----
	When I think "Countries of the World" my mind taxonomizes it into two things. The first is a table with all the countries, listed by continent first and alphabetically second, which includes statistics such as pop., GDP per capita, growth rate, doubling time, etc. The second, and hierarchically equal part, is a spiel about the distinct differences between a country, a state, and a nation. ( Looking them up in a dictionary doesn't do any good because Webster is a sellout. )

			(machine translation) ] (]) 08:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	I'd be happy to write said spiel if people would like, although I do admit that it doesn't, in fact actually matter that much.

			:Those aren't the common names. They're almost universally referred to in English as North and South Korea. I do, however, think they should be changed to "Korea, North" and "Korea, South", in line with the Congos. ] (]) 11:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
	--]
			::I agree with you ] (]) 18:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
			:It's not the same thing. South Korea is the area controlled by the Republic of Korea while North Korea is the area controlled by the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Using the longer names gives credence to their respective claims, which is why reliable sources generally prefer North and South Korea. It's one country divided by competing governments.
			:If and when they recognize each other, that will probably change as it did for Germany and China. Reliable sources also stopped referring to China as Mainland, Red or Communist China whe its current government was recognized. ] (]) 21:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

			== New Section for "States partially recognized by the UN System" ==

			Hello. I'd like to propose changing this article to include a new category for States partially recognized by the UN System. It feels disingenuous to have widely-recognized states such as Kosovo, Niue, and the Cook Islands, along with Taiwan (one of the largest diplomatic networks in the world) and the SADR (recognized national liberation movement), lumped together with other separatist states that maintain limited support (Russian-occupied territories, Turkish-occupied Cyprus, Somaliland). I've proposed an edit which I will recreate below. Note that while the WTO is not a UN Specialized Agency, it is still considered part of the "UN System", which includes Taiwan under a special designation. ] (] · ]) – <small>(] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 21:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
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			===States with partial recognition within the UN system===
	Why is Christmas Island listed as a country? It's Australian territory, and I don't think there's any particular desire to secede (though if the current imbroglio with the Norwegian ship carries on I'd be starting to consider it if I lived there . . .. :) )
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			{{col-2}}
	That was probably me responsible for that. I don't know; I was just mindlessly adding everything from the CIA World Factbook without much considering if it's in fact a country. Perhaps we should have a separate page listing various territories? But then Puerto Rico and Western Samoa would be moved off the Countries page too, I guess. --KQ
			'''"Membership within the UN System" column legend'''
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			{{legend\|#e2efda\|Member of a UN System organization}}
	there is already a page for dependent states at
			{{legend\|#F5DEB3\|Recognized national liberation movement}}
	]. That is probably where ] belongs. Chistmas Island was once administered as a dependent state. Now Australia tends to claim it is an integral part of Australia, but under international law it may still be a dependent state. By the way ] is NOT a dependent state. It is a fully independent nation in its own right.
			{{col-2}}
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			'''"Sovereignty dispute" column legend'''
	Yes, I am again thinking one thing and saying another. Western Samoa, former name of country now known as simply ], not to be confused with ]. Anyway.
			{{legend\|white\|Undisputed sovereignty}}
			{{legend\|#fcc\|Disputed sovereignty}}
			{{col-end}}
			{\| class="sortable wikitable sticky-header" text-align:left;"
			\|-
			! style="width:150pt;"\| Common and formal names
			! style="width:90pt;"\| Membership within the ]{{efn\|name="UN System"}}
			! style="width:90pt;"\| Sovereignty dispute{{efn\|This column indicates whether or not a state is the subject of a major sovereignty dispute. Only states whose entire sovereignty is disputed by another state are listed.}}
			! class="unsortable"\| Further information on status and recognition of sovereignty{{efn\|Information is included on:
			* The extent to which a state's sovereignty is recognised internationally. More information can be found at ],
			* Membership in the ],{{efn\|name="EU"}} where applicable,
			* Any ], if applicable, which are generally not part of the territory of the sovereign state,
			* ] of the state, where applicable. More information can be found at ],
			* Any ] inside the territory of the sovereign state,
			* Any situations where one person is the Head of State of more than one state,
			* Any ] recognised by at least one state.}}
			\|-
			\|-
			\|<span id="Cook Islands"></span>'''{{flag\|Cook Islands}}'''
			\| style="background:#e2efda;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> Member of eight ]
			\|<span style="display:none">A</span> None<br /><small>(See ])</small>
			{{extent}}A state in ] with ], the Cook Islands maintains ] and is recognized as a sovereign state by a number of them. The Cook Islands is a member of ] with full treaty making capacity.<ref name="untreaty1"/> It shares a ] with New Zealand as well as having ].
			\|-
			\|<span id="Kosovo"></span>'''{{flag\|Kosovo}}''' – Republic of Kosovo
			\| style="background:#e2efda;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> Member of two ]
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|SERBIA}}
			{{extent}}Pursuant to ], Kosovo was placed under the administration of the ] in 1999.<ref>{{cite web\|title=United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo\|url=https://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/missions/unmik/\|website=UN\|access-date=8 January 2015\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20141225015010/http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/missions/unmik/\|archive-date=25 December 2014\|url-status=live\|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Kosovo ], and it has {{Numrec\|Kosovo\|received diplomatic recognition from\|UN member states}} and the ], while 18 of those states have recognised Kosovo only to later withdraw their recognition.<ref>{{Cite web\|url=http://www.mfa.gov.rs/sr/index.php/pres-servis/saopstenja/22340--18-k-sl03032020?lang=lat\|title=''"Sijera Leone je 18. država koja je povukla priznanje tzv. Kosova"''}}</ref> Serbia continues to maintain its sovereignty claim over Kosovo. Other UN member states and non UN member states continue to recognise Serbian sovereignty or have taken no position on the question. Kosovo is a member of the ] and the ]. The Republic of Kosovo has de facto control over most of the territory, with limited control in ].
			\|-
			\|<span id="Niue"></span>'''{{flag\|Niue}}'''
			\| style="background:#e2efda;"\|<span style="display:none">D</span> Member of five ]
			\|<span style="display:none">A</span> None<br /><small>(See ])</small>
			{{extent}}A state in ] with ], Niue maintains ] and is recognized as a sovereign state by a number of them. Niue is a member of ] with full treaty making capacity.<ref name="untreaty1"/> It shares a ] with New Zealand as well as having ].
			\|-
			\|<span id="SADR"></span>'''{{flag\|Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic}}'''
			\| style="background:Wheat;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> Recognized ]
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|MOROCCO}}
			{{extent}}The ], which administers the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, is recognized by the UN as the ] of the people of ].<ref> A/RES/34/37 (1979)</ref><ref> A/RES/35/19 (1980)</ref> Recognised at some stage by {{Numrec\|Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic\|\|UN member states}}, {{Numrec\|Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic\|W=Y\|link=N}} of which have since withdrawn or frozen their recognition. It is a founding member of the ], an international organization with ] at the UN General Assembly.

			The territories under its control, the so-called ], are claimed in whole by ] as part of its ]. In turn, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic claims the part of Western Sahara to the west of the ] controlled by Morocco. Its government resides in exile in ], ].
	I notice some overlap between ] and ]--for instance, ], ], ], etc. I'm becoming increasingly leery of potentially volatile discussions, so let me just point out that there is an overlap and comment that I'm not taking any further action on it. :-) --KQ
			\|-
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			\|<span id="Taiwan"></span>'''{{flag\|Republic of China\|name=Taiwan}}''' – Republic of China{{efn\|name="ChinaTaiwan"}}
	I'm thinking of doing away with all the subpages stemming from ]. What do you think of renaming them all to for instance:
			\| style="background:#e2efda;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> ]; member of one ]{{efn\|Participates in the ] under the designation of "Separate Customs Territory of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen and Matsu".}}
	History of *
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|]. {{claimedby\|PRC}}
	Geography of *
			{{extent}}A state competing (nominally) for recognition with the ] (PRC) as the government of China since 1949. The Republic of China (ROC) controls the island of ], ], ], the ], and ], as well as ] and ] of the ], and has not renounced claims over its annexed territories on the ].<ref>{{Cite news \|title=Ma refers to China as ROC territory in magazine interview \|work=] \|date=8 October 2008 \|url=http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/10/08/2003425320 \|access-date=13 October 2008 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090603213128/http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/10/08/2003425320 \|archive-date=3 June 2009 \|url-status=live \|df=dmy-all}}</ref> The ROC is recognised by {{Numrec\|Republic of China\|alt=UN member states and the Holy See as of}} UN member states as well as Vatican City, none of which recognise the PRC. Additionally, one UN member (]) has ] either the ROC or the PRC.
	People of *

	Government of *
			In addition to these relations, the ROC also maintains unofficial relations<ref>{{cite web\|url=https://www.ey.gov.tw/state/News_Content3.aspx?n=A88B8E342A02AD0A&s=F1B6AD3B065E43D8\|script-title=zh:中華民國國情介紹\|date=22 March 2017\|website=2.16.886.101.20003}}</ref> with 58 UN member states, one ] (]), three territories (], ], and ]), and the ] via its ] under the ] principle. Taiwan has the 31st-largest diplomatic network in the world with 110 offices.<ref>{{cite web \|last1=van der Wees \|first1=Gerrit \|title=Is Taiwan's International Space Expanding or Contracting? \|url=https://thediplomat.com/2021/12/is-taiwans-international-space-expanding-or-contracting/ \|website=thediplomat.com \|publisher=The Diplomat \|access-date=16 December 2021}}</ref>
	Economy of *

	Communications in *
			The territory of the ROC is claimed in whole by the PRC.{{efn\|name="TAI2"}} The ROC ] under a variety of pseudonyms, most commonly "]" and in the ] it has full membership under the designation of "Separate Customs Territory of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen and Matsu".{{efn\|name=WTO\|While the WTO is formally separate from the UN, it is recognized as being part of the UN System due to their very close relationship.<ref>{{Cite web\|url=https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-system\|title=UN System\|access-date=23 November 2024\|website=United Nations}}</ref>}} The ROC was a founding member of the UN and enjoyed membership from 1945 to 1971, with veto power in the ]. See ].
	Transportation in *
			\|}
	Military of *
	Foreign relations of *
	"Transnational issues" would be integrated w/ "foreign relations of." Any suggestions? (aside from "get a life"?) ;-) --KQ
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	I say great idea -- subpages are just plain ugly! -- ]

			===Other states===
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			{{col-begin\|width=760px}}
	Should ], ] and ] get listed as individual conutries?
			{{col-2}}
	:It depends upon what you want the list to be. Scotland, England and Wales are separate countries and used to be separate nations but they are not at this moment separate nation-states. Except perhaps in the sporting world where they each send separate football teams or other sporting teams to international events. -- ]
			'''"Membership within the UN System" column legend'''
			{{legend\|lemonchiffon\|No membership}}
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			'''"Sovereignty dispute" column legend'''
			{{legend\|#fcc\|Disputed sovereignty}}
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			{\| class="sortable wikitable sticky-header" text-align:left;"
			\|-
			! style="width:150pt;"\| Common and formal names
			! style="width:90pt;"\| Membership within the ]{{efn\|name="UN System"\|This column indicates whether or not a state is a member of the ].<ref name="unms"/> It also indicates which non-member states participate in the ] through membership in the ], one of the ], or a closely-related organization. All United Nations members belong to at least one specialized agency and are parties to the statute of the ]. The UN also recognizes ].}}
			! style="width:90pt;"\| Sovereignty dispute{{efn\|This column indicates whether or not a state is the subject of a major sovereignty dispute. Only states whose entire sovereignty is disputed by another state are listed.}}
			! class="unsortable"\| Further information on status and recognition of sovereignty{{efn\|Information is included on:
			* The extent to which a state's sovereignty is recognised internationally. More information can be found at ],
			* Membership in the ],{{efn\|name="EU"}} where applicable,
			* Any ], if applicable, which are generally not part of the territory of the sovereign state,
			* ] of the state, where applicable. More information can be found at ],
			* Any ] inside the territory of the sovereign state,
			* Any situations where one person is the Head of State of more than one state,
			* Any ] recognised by at least one state.}}
			\|-
			\|<span id="Abkhazia"></span>'''{{flag\|Abkhazia}}''' – Republic of Abkhazia
			\| style="background:LemonChiffon;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> No membership
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|GEORGIA}}
			{{extent}}] Russia, Nicaragua, Nauru, Syria, Venezuela, South Ossetia, and Transnistria.<ref name=ASOTREC>{{cite web\|url=http://www.newsru.com/russia/17nov2006/aup.html\|date=17 November 2006\|access-date=5 June 2011\|script-title=ru:Абхазия, Южная Осетия и Приднестровье признали независимость друг друга и призвали всех к этому же\|publisher=newsru.com\|language=ru\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090416050525/http://www.newsru.com/russia/17nov2006/aup.html\|archive-date=16 April 2009\|url-status=live}}</ref> Claimed in whole by ] as the ].
			\|-
			\|<span id="Northern Cyprus"></span>'''{{flag\|Northern Cyprus}}''' – Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
			\| style="background:LemonChiffon;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> No membership
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|CYPRUS}}
			{{extent}} ] ]. Under the name "]", it is an observer state of the ] and the ]. Northern Cyprus is claimed in whole by the ].<ref>{{Citation\|title=Cyprus\|date=7 June 2023\|url=https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/cyprus/\|work=The World Factbook\|publisher=Central Intelligence Agency\|access-date=11 June 2023}}</ref>
			\|-
			\|<span id="Somaliland"></span>'''{{flag\|Somaliland}}''' – Republic of Somaliland
			\| style="background:LemonChiffon;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> No membership
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|SOMALIA}}
			{{extent}}A de facto independent state,<ref name=montevideo>{{cite book\|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=4PwmeRG9QsUC\|last1=Ker-Lindsay\|first1=James\|title=The Foreign Policy of Counter Secession: Preventing the Recognition of Contested States\|page=53\|publisher=]\|year=2012\|quote=In addition to the four cases of contested statehood described above, there are three other territories that have unilaterally declared independence and are generally regarded as having met the Montevideo criteria for statehood but have not been recognised by any states: Transnistria, Nagorny Karabakh, and Somaliland.\|access-date=24 September 2013\|df=dmy-all\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131009041217/http://books.google.com/books?id=4PwmeRG9QsUC\|archive-date=9 October 2013\|url-status=live\|isbn=9780199698394}}</ref><ref name=FailureofStates>{{cite journal\|url=http://minnjil.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/kreuterweb-pdf.pdf\|last1=Kreuter\|first1=Aaron\|title=Self-Determination, Sovereignty, and the Failure of States: Somaliland and the Case for Justified Secession\|journal=]\|volume=19\|pages=380–381\|publisher=]\|year=2010\|issue=2 \|quote=Considering each of these factors, Somaliland has a colorable argument that it meets the theoretical requirements of statehood. ... On these bases, Somaliland appears to have a strong claim to statehood.\|access-date=24 September 2013\|df=dmy-all\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130927082111/http://minnjil.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/kreuterweb-pdf.pdf\|archive-date=27 September 2013\|url-status=dead}}</ref><ref name=AfricaReport>{{cite journal\|url=http://www.operationspaix.net/IMG/pdf/ICG_Somaliland_AU_Leadership_2006-05-23_.pdf\|author=International Crisis Group\|title=Somaliland: Time for African Union leadership\|journal=]\|issue=110\|pages=10–13\|publisher=]\|date=23 May 2006\|access-date=19 April 2011\|url-status=dead\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110720022321/http://www.operationspaix.net/IMG/pdf/ICG_Somaliland_AU_Leadership_2006-05-23_.pdf\|archive-date=20 July 2011\|df=dmy-all}}</ref><ref name=PolSomaliland>{{cite journal\|url=http://www.somalilandtimes.net/sl/2009/403/P200.pdf\|last1=Mesfin\|first1=Berouk\|title=The political development of Somaliland and its conflict with Puntland\|journal=ISS Paper\|issue=200\|page=8\|publisher=]\|date=September 2009\|access-date=19 April 2011\|url-status=dead\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20111123043040/http://www.somalilandtimes.net/sl/2009/403/P200.pdf\|archive-date=23 November 2011\|df=dmy}}</ref><ref name=StrangeCase>{{cite journal\|url=http://yalejournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/083206arieff.pdf\|last1=Arieff\|first1=Alexis\|title=de facto Statehood? The Strange Case of Somaliland\|journal=]\|issue=Spring/Summer 2008\|pages=1–79\|publisher=International Affairs Council at Yale\|access-date=17 April 2011\|df=dmy-all\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20111213214545/http://yalejournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/083206arieff.pdf\|archive-date=13 December 2011\|url-status=live}}</ref>{{excessive citations inline\|date=September 2023}} ] any other state;{{efn\|Though ].}} claimed in whole by the ].<ref name="Somalilandprofile">{{cite web\|title=Somaliland profile\|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14115069\|website=]\|date=14 December 2017\|access-date=27 January 2018\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170423054426/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14115069\|archive-date=23 April 2017\|url-status=live\|df=dmy-all}}</ref>
			\|-
			\|<span id="South Ossetia"></span>'''{{flag\|South Ossetia}}''' – Republic of South Ossetia–the State of Alania
			\| style="background:LemonChiffon;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> No membership
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|GEORGIA}}
			{{extent}}A de facto independent state,<ref>{{Cite journal\|author=Jansen, Dinah\|title=The Conflict between Self-Determination and Territorial Integrity: the South Ossetian Paradigm\|url=https://es.scribd.com/document/31659924/The-Conflict-between-Self-Determination-and-Territorial-Integrity-The-South-Ossetian-Paradigm\|journal=Geopolitics Vs. Global Governance: Reinterpreting International Security\|pages=222–242\|year=2009\|publisher=Centre for Foreign Policy Studies, University of Dalhousie\|isbn=978-1-896440-61-3\|access-date=14 December 2017\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180819063355/https://es.scribd.com/document/31659924/The-Conflict-between-Self-Determination-and-Territorial-Integrity-The-South-Ossetian-Paradigm\|archive-date=19 August 2018\|url-status=live\|df=dmy-all}}</ref> ] Russia, Nicaragua, Nauru, Syria, Venezuela, Abkhazia, and Transnistria. Claimed in whole by ] as the ].<ref name="cnnAbSO">{{Cite news\|title=Russia condemned for recognising rebel regions\|url=http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/26/russia.vote.georgia/index.html\|newspaper=CNN.com\|publisher=Cable News Network\|date=26 August 2008\|access-date=26 August 2008\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080829045537/http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/26/russia.vote.georgia/index.html\|archive-date=29 August 2008\|url-status=live\|df=dmy-all}}</ref>
			\|-
			\|<span id="Transnistria"></span>'''{{flag\|Transnistria}}''' – Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic
			\| style="background:LemonChiffon;" \|<span style="display:none">D</span> No membership
			\| style="background:#fcc;" \|{{claimedby\|MOLDOVA}}
			{{extent}}A de facto independent state,<ref name=montevideo/> ] Abkhazia and South Ossetia.<ref name=ASOTREC /> Claimed in whole by ].<ref>{{Cite news\|date=20 November 2022\|title=Transnistria profile – Overview\|work=BBC News\|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18286268\|access-date=11 June 2023}}</ref>
			\|} ] (] · ]) – <small>(] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 21:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

			:I'm not entirely opposed to this. I think your idea has some merit. Two comments:
	----
			:1. What exactly is a "recognized national liberation movement"? Is there some kind of verifiable source for UN recognition of this nature? And does it qualify it as UN-associated?
			:2. I'm wary about classifying the WTO as "UN-associated". I don't know enough about their relationship to say for sure one way or the other. ] (]) 21:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
			::1. A "]" is a designation from the 1970s–1980s that granted special status to certain groups during decolonisation, but is still in force today. For example, the ] was a recognized national liberation movement until it was promoted to a ] in 2012. The UN receives communications from and maintains relations with the Polisario Front (the administrators of the SADR) as the "legitimate representative" of ], a ]. The Polisario Front's international status has been recently by the EU Court of Justice. I've cited the two UN resolutions that initially granted recognition as sources in the "Further information" column.
			::2. The WTO is listed on the official UN System website. So, though it is not a specialized agency and formally separate from the UN, it is still recognized as part of the UN System due to their close relations. Taiwan participates in the WTO. Again, it seems disingenuous to group Taiwan with other states that have almost no international legitimacy.
			::Let me know if that helps. ] (] · ]) – <small>(] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 22:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::Thank you. That helps me understand your points a lot better. ] (]) 13:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
			:Opposed to this unless there is widespread sourcing that defines "partial recognition within the UN system". This also feels redundant to the existing column. Regarding the rationale, we have never found convincing sourcing to define "widely-recognized", and certainly I've never seen Taiwan described as such. ] (]) 03:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
			::I think what Nice4What means is states that aren't members of the UN, but which are associated with the UN in some way. As you point out, the sources are the sticking point. However, we already distinguish between states that are members of a UN specialised agency and those that aren't. That seems much more objective than the current proposal.
			::It does make some sense to me that members of specialised agencies would be seen as somewhat more legitimate in the eyes of the UN than states that aren't. However, again, the sources might not back up such an assertion. ] (]) 13:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
			:::The sorting criteria was based on the organizations that it was, because that's a common approach used by the international community to determine whether states have the legal capacity to independently become parties to treaties. This is the so called "Vienna formula", which is summarized here: ].
			:::It's not clear what the justification/rational for considering other organizations, but as mentioned we'd need sources to support it. ] (]) 17:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			{{reflist-talk}}

			== Denmark ==
	I've noticed there is a Basque insisting in putting Euzcadi (spell, please?) in the list of countries. I think we could
	create a third list (apart from countries of the world and
	extint countries, of nationalities whose terriotories lay in
	one or several countries, but for which there is at least a fraction
	of that population wanting to be a country of its own. The basques would be on that list, probably also the kurdish people,
	Tibet maybe, etc. what do you think? --]

			Is it supposed to be the state flag? ] (]) 20:02, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	We could start a new page ] ]
			:{{ping\|RelliKtiabkcilK}} No, it isn't. The implementation was hidden deep, but I rectified it with ]. ] (]) 20:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	<hr>
			::Ah yes, that was me, sorry. I changed the flag on the article for the Danish Realm from the state flag to the standard flag. I didn't realise there was a data page I had to edit as well. ] (]) 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	<font color=blue>Regarding the Basque Country issue, I must say that the Misplaced Pages community has established absolutely no rules about which countries should show up in this page. Given the fact, I do not understand why nations without the collective rights of self-determination as Euskadi or Tibet or many others should not appear (remember Woodrow Wilson's ten points for the achievement of peace in Europe in 1918?). And, believe me, a Country is something framed by a people, a culture and a land. There are also nations as the Roma or Gypsies who lack a precise land of their own. So, I please ask people to be tolerant with weak countries and nations as Tibet, Roma or Basques...I think real politik is based upon hypocresy and is the weapon of the powerful countries to dominate. Many thanks. Txino</font>
			:::Ah, ok. I get it. ] (]) 21:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Discussion of rv ==
	----
	Basque Country is in the list under Spain, it's not a country or a dependent territory. The purpose of wikipedia is to colect factual information about the world. If Basque Country were acepted as a country, then someone would have to change the articles about Spain and France. ]

			@] First off, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays! Anyway, I would like a full justification for your rv. I fully believe that I am following and standardizing the formatting used throughout the article. As for other changes (solving the excessive citations issue for Somaliland, unifying the notes for the top row of both tables, punctuation/grammar, etc.) I will automatically assume that it is alright to add them back if you don't justify reverting those. Cheers mate! ] (]) 19:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	As much as you may not like it, the major aspect of defining a country is whether other countries agree with you. People by themselves can define a culture, but not a nation. Hence we recognise Tibet and Taiwan are they are recognised by many nations, even though China refuses. Myanmar is recognised as such (and not Burma), even though the USA refuses to do so. It is quite probable that the fate of small "wanna-be" countries is dictated by the larger countries. This makes for an unpleasant reality, but it IS the reality. Every state in the United Nations is recognised here, as well as countries recognised by at least some of the major nations. Basque is not recognised by ANYONE. This may be unfair, it may well be wrong and bigoted and evil, but that's just the way it is. That's not our fault. - ]
	<hr>
	<br>
	Well, I know it is not your fault but lets answer the cuestion: Why are you reconignising in your list countries like some isles that only have a garrison?.

			:The edit in question was a huge single edit that said cleanup but was doing quite a few things that go beyond cleanup. I saw a few good changes, but what caught my eye and I already mentioned in the edit summary was applying the dependency formatting to autonomous areas. ] (]) 02:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	:And being unable to resist blowing hydrogen at the fire (where'd my eyebrows go?), ] have to ask why ] is on the list....
			::Oh alright, my apologies, I just applied the formatting to entities that had flags under the flag template. I did not know of this beforehand. If that is the only issue, I will add back relevant changes soon. :) ] (]) 15:03, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Is there a general list of changes? I noticed the adding of further efns and a few c/es that seemed good. ] (]) 16:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::I would like to apologize as I am not quite familiar with Misplaced Pages jargon, so I may have misapplied some terms. Anyhow, in my :
			::::A. cleaned up links
			:::::1. removed nonexistent section link ("summary by country") from ] (line 58)
			:::::2. removed redirect to ] (line 58)
			:::::3. corrected section link to ] by replacing nonexistent section "co-principality" with ] (line 84)
			:::::4. corrected section link to ] by replacing nonexistent section "relationship between the realms" with ], fixing the link name accordingly ("Commonwealth realm interrelationship") (line 94)
			:::::5. removed redirect to ] (line 122)
			:::::6. removed redirect to ] (line 152)
			:::::7. removed redirect to ] (line 197)
			:::::8. corrected section link to ] by replacing nonexistent section "international recognition of the People's Republic of China" with ] (line 256)
			:::::9. removed redirects to ] and ] (line 262)
			::::B. added links
			:::::1. linked ] to "Argentine Constitution" (line 94)
			:::::2. linked ] (line 152)
			:::::3. the note is about the use of Dominion as a name of Canada, so I directly linked it to ] and ] (line 229)
			:::::4. linked ] (line 262)
			::::C. c/es
			:::::1. rewrote note for formal name of ] by aligning it with ] (line 122)
			::::For B2&4, I erroneously linked the country names to their respective articles at first, but I linked them to their respective sections on the list in my second edit in accordance with the rest of the article. That is all the changes I made in my 1st edit, none of which concern the dependency formatting. If you have no objections, I will add these changes back to the article, and summarize the rest of my changes (made in my second edit). ] (]) 07:13, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Chinland and Wa State ==
	Obviously, because Palestine is recognized as a country by many other countries.
	------
	Let me repeat two things I said above: "I was just mindlessly adding everything from the CIA World Factbook without much considering if it's in fact a country" and "I'm becoming increasingly leery of potentially volatile discussions, so let me just point out that there is an overlap and comment that I'm not taking any further action on it." The page does have its anachronisms; for those I apologize; however I'm not interested in engaging in political discussions, and for that I do not apologize. I had no political motive in it; I simply didn't think it through fully. Change incorrect information to your heart's content; you have my blessings but not my involvement. :-) --]

			] and ] are pretty much de facto independent states in Myanmar and thus should be included in the list ] (]) 01:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Let me propose the following simple standard -- its a country if it has an ISO 3166 code, an Internet ccTLD, or is a dependent territory (as opposed to mere metropolitan subdivision) of a country with one. That way we completely avoid politics. -- ]

	----
	'''PROPOSAL''' - (Different to SJK's) How about we use this page to only list ] recognised countries. That is simple and non-controversial. We then have another page for all the others, with links to "dependent territories", "non-universally recognised countries", etc, etc. Because the second page will be very loosely defined, we can handle the Basques, Catalonias and "Hutt River Provinces" of the world. At the top of the page we have a disclaimer acknowledging that these are only UN-recognised countries, and a prominent link to the "other" page. - ]

	----

	<br>actually, that page exist already, it's called ]....so we still don't know what do we make with this one....maybe transform it in just a links page, with links to united nations, non-universally recognized, dependencies, etc? What IS a country? --]
	-----
	Problem is that not all states are members of the UN. The UN, technically speaking, does not and has no power to recognize states -- only the states can do that. (It can in some cases direct states to withold recognition of a purported state, though.) Switzerland and the Holy See are not UN members, and everyone in the world recognizes Switzerland at least as a country. In the past a lot more countries haven't been. We could maybe use the member state list, plus the state permanent observers to the General Assembly list. But then there still may be states with universal recognition not on either list (I don't think there are any at present, but there have been in the past.) -- ]

	:Is it ] (Republic of China, I think) an state permanent observer?
	::Taiwan is an observer, but it is not listed as a "state observer", but rather under "International organizations and other entities". It shares that list with a wide range of other things -- Palestine, the European Union, and even some NGOs, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross and the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. -- ]

	<hr>
	Joao, you told half the truth, as the Basque Country is also under French statehood. I don't agree that a country existence depends on the recognition of the NU. Somalilia is not recognized by NU, and Western Sahara is not recognized by at least half the countries in the world. As I told, a country requires to exist a people with a culture, a land and some think a "spirit" or self conscience. What other States recognize are States (Kingdom, Republic etc). States have a Government of its own and that's the difference between countries and states. It is paradoxical that there are countries without states and states without conutry. Bethinks me of Tibet and Taiwan. --]

	----

			:This list only includes states that either have received recognition or have been assessed by reliable sources as meeting the Montevideo Convention criteria. ] (]) 01:25, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	I don't know who did this page, but it's fantastic! I hope it will convince Wikipedians to overcome their fear of "list articles" - this is a great little category system. Yeay! :) ] 23:45 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)
			::Well then maybe Chinland can’t be included because it doesn’t have relations with other states but the Wa State meets all of the requirements, the Wa State well exists and several sources back that up so thus it has a population, the government claims territory and so this it has an established territory, it has a government and reliable sources have talked about the fact that the Wa State exist so thus reliable source back up the fact it has a government, and Reuters, which is considered to be reliable, claims that the Wa State had relations with China so at least the Wa State should be included ] (]) 02:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I think that the main thing is that the Wa State itself does not claim to be a sovereign state, so there's no basis for its inclusion in the list even if it fits the criteria of being a sovereign state (which is debatable as well). ] (]) 06:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::unless I missed something I’m pretty sure there isn’t anything in the article that states that the state itself has to view itself as independent to be included in the list so I’m pretty sure it’s still technically qualified to be in the list ] (]) 07:14, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Under ], 2nd paragraph: "For the purposes of this list, included are all polities that '''consider themselves sovereign states (through a declaration of independence or some other means)'''..."
			:::::It is clearly stated in the ] article that it recognizes Myanmar's sovereignty over all of its territory, so it fails this criterion. ] (]) 04:29, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 04:29, 27 December 2024

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North and South Korea's names

Should the reference to Congo be changed to:

Korea, Republic of

Korea, Deomocratic People's Republic of

(machine translation) Gdagys (talk) 08:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Those aren't the common names. They're almost universally referred to in English as North and South Korea. I do, however, think they should be changed to "Korea, North" and "Korea, South", in line with the Congos. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 11:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you Gdagys (talk) 18:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not the same thing. South Korea is the area controlled by the Republic of Korea while North Korea is the area controlled by the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Using the longer names gives credence to their respective claims, which is why reliable sources generally prefer North and South Korea. It's one country divided by competing governments.

If and when they recognize each other, that will probably change as it did for Germany and China. Reliable sources also stopped referring to China as Mainland, Red or Communist China whe its current government was recognized. TFD (talk) 21:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

New Section for "States partially recognized by the UN System"

Hello. I'd like to propose changing this article to include a new category for States partially recognized by the UN System. It feels disingenuous to have widely-recognized states such as Kosovo, Niue, and the Cook Islands, along with Taiwan (one of the largest diplomatic networks in the world) and the SADR (recognized national liberation movement), lumped together with other separatist states that maintain limited support (Russian-occupied territories, Turkish-occupied Cyprus, Somaliland). I've proposed an edit as such which I will recreate below. Note that while the WTO is not a UN Specialized Agency, it is still considered part of the "UN System", which includes Taiwan under a special designation. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

States with partial recognition within the UN system

"Membership within the UN System" column legend

Member of a UN System organization Recognized national liberation movement

"Sovereignty dispute" column legend

Undisputed sovereignty Disputed sovereignty

Common and formal names	Membership within the UN System	Sovereignty dispute	Further information on status and recognition of sovereignty
Cook Islands	D Member of eight UN specialized agencies	A None (See political status)	A state in free association with New Zealand, the Cook Islands maintains diplomatic relations with at least 63 other states and is recognized as a sovereign state by a number of them. The Cook Islands is a member of multiple UN agencies with full treaty making capacity. It shares a head of state with New Zealand as well as having shared citizenship.
Kosovo – Republic of Kosovo	D Member of two UN specialized agencies	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	Pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244, Kosovo was placed under the administration of the United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo in 1999. Kosovo declared independence in 2008, and it has received diplomatic recognition from 114 UN member states and the Republic of China, while 18 of those states have recognised Kosovo only to later withdraw their recognition. Serbia continues to maintain its sovereignty claim over Kosovo. Other UN member states and non UN member states continue to recognise Serbian sovereignty or have taken no position on the question. Kosovo is a member of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank Group. The Republic of Kosovo has de facto control over most of the territory, with limited control in North Kosovo.
Niue	D Member of five UN specialized agencies	A None (See political status)	A state in free association with New Zealand, Niue maintains diplomatic relations with at least 28 other states and is recognized as a sovereign state by a number of them. Niue is a member of multiple UN agencies with full treaty making capacity. It shares a head of state with New Zealand as well as having shared citizenship.
Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic	D Recognized national liberation movement	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	The Frente Polisario, which administers the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, is recognized by the UN as the legitimate representative of the people of Western Sahara. Recognised at some stage by 84 UN member states, 38 of which have since withdrawn or frozen their recognition. It is a founding member of the African Union, an international organization with permanent observer status at the UN General Assembly. The territories under its control, the so-called Free Zone, are claimed in whole by Morocco as part of its Southern Provinces. In turn, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic claims the part of Western Sahara to the west of the Moroccan Wall controlled by Morocco. Its government resides in exile in Tindouf, Algeria.
Taiwan – Republic of China	D Former UN member; member of one UN-associated agency	Partially unrecognised. BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	A state competing (nominally) for recognition with the People's Republic of China (PRC) as the government of China since 1949. The Republic of China (ROC) controls the island of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen, the Matsu Islands, and Pratas Island, as well as Taiping Island and Zhongzhou Reef of the Spratly Islands, and has not renounced claims over its annexed territories on the mainland. The ROC is recognised by 11 UN member states as well as Vatican City, none of which recognise the PRC. Additionally, one UN member (Bhutan) has refrained from recognising either the ROC or the PRC. In addition to these relations, the ROC also maintains unofficial relations with 58 UN member states, one self-declared state (Somaliland), three territories (Guam, Hong Kong, and Macau), and the European Union via its representative offices and consulates under the One China principle. Taiwan has the 31st-largest diplomatic network in the world with 110 offices. The territory of the ROC is claimed in whole by the PRC. The ROC participates in international organizations under a variety of pseudonyms, most commonly "Chinese Taipei" and in the WTO it has full membership under the designation of "Separate Customs Territory of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen and Matsu". The ROC was a founding member of the UN and enjoyed membership from 1945 to 1971, with veto power in the UN Security Council. See China and the United Nations.

Other states

"Membership within the UN System" column legend

No membership

"Sovereignty dispute" column legend

Disputed sovereignty

Common and formal names	Membership within the UN System	Sovereignty dispute	Further information on status and recognition of sovereignty
Abkhazia – Republic of Abkhazia	D No membership	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	Recognised by Russia, Nicaragua, Nauru, Syria, Venezuela, South Ossetia, and Transnistria. Claimed in whole by Georgia as the Autonomous Republic of Abkhazia.
Northern Cyprus – Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus	D No membership	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	Recognised only by Turkey. Under the name "Turkish Cypriot State", it is an observer state of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation and the Economic Cooperation Organization. Northern Cyprus is claimed in whole by the Republic of Cyprus.
Somaliland – Republic of Somaliland	D No membership	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	A de facto independent state, not formally diplomatically recognised by any other state; claimed in whole by the Federal Republic of Somalia.
South Ossetia – Republic of South Ossetia–the State of Alania	D No membership	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	A de facto independent state, recognised by Russia, Nicaragua, Nauru, Syria, Venezuela, Abkhazia, and Transnistria. Claimed in whole by Georgia as the Provisional Administration of South Ossetia.
Transnistria – Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic	D No membership	BClaimed by AfghanistanClaimed by GeorgiaClaimed by North Korea Claimed by Serbia Claimed by Somalia Claimed by the People's Republic of China Claimed by the Republic of China Claimed by South Korea Claimed by Azerbaijan Claimed by the Republic of Cyprus Disputed by Israel Claimed by Indonesia Claimed by the Marshall Islands Claimed by Mauritius Claimed by Morocco Claimed by Moldova Claimed by Mali Claimed by Spain Claimed by Argentina Claimed by Ukraine	A de facto independent state, recognised only by Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Claimed in whole by Moldova.

Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not entirely opposed to this. I think your idea has some merit. Two comments:

1. What exactly is a "recognized national liberation movement"? Is there some kind of verifiable source for UN recognition of this nature? And does it qualify it as UN-associated?

2. I'm wary about classifying the WTO as "UN-associated". I don't know enough about their relationship to say for sure one way or the other. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 21:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

1. A "recognized national liberation movement" is a designation from the 1970s–1980s that granted special status to certain groups during decolonisation, but is still in force today. For example, the PLO was a recognized national liberation movement until it was promoted to a non-member state in 2012. The UN receives communications from and maintains relations with the Polisario Front (the administrators of the SADR) as the "legitimate representative" of Western Sahara, a Non-Self-Governing Territory. The Polisario Front's international status has been recently reaffirmed by the EU Court of Justice. I've cited the two UN resolutions that initially granted recognition as sources in the "Further information" column.

2. The WTO is listed here on the official UN System website. So, though it is not a specialized agency and formally separate from the UN, it is still recognized as part of the UN System due to their close relations. Taiwan participates in the WTO. Again, it seems disingenuous to group Taiwan with other states that have almost no international legitimacy.

Let me know if that helps. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 22:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. That helps me understand your points a lot better. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 13:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Opposed to this unless there is widespread sourcing that defines "partial recognition within the UN system". This also feels redundant to the existing column. Regarding the rationale, we have never found convincing sourcing to define "widely-recognized", and certainly I've never seen Taiwan described as such. CMD (talk) 03:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I think what Nice4What means is states that aren't members of the UN, but which are associated with the UN in some way. As you point out, the sources are the sticking point. However, we already distinguish between states that are members of a UN specialised agency and those that aren't. That seems much more objective than the current proposal.

It does make some sense to me that members of specialised agencies would be seen as somewhat more legitimate in the eyes of the UN than states that aren't. However, again, the sources might not back up such an assertion. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 13:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The sorting criteria was based on the organizations that it was, because that's a common approach used by the international community to determine whether states have the legal capacity to independently become parties to treaties. This is the so called "Vienna formula", which is summarized here: Vienna_Convention_on_the_Law_of_Treaties#Vienna_formula.

It's not clear what the justification/rational for considering other organizations, but as mentioned we'd need sources to support it. TDL (talk) 17:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

References

^ Cite error: The named reference untreaty1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
"United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo". UN. Archived from the original on 25 December 2014. Retrieved 8 January 2015.
""Sijera Leone je 18. država koja je povukla priznanje tzv. Kosova"".
Question of Western Sahara A/RES/34/37 (1979)
Question of Western Sahara A/RES/35/19 (1980)
"Ma refers to China as ROC territory in magazine interview". Taipei Times. 8 October 2008. Archived from the original on 3 June 2009. Retrieved 13 October 2008.
中華民國國情介紹. 2.16.886.101.20003. 22 March 2017.
van der Wees, Gerrit. "Is Taiwan's International Space Expanding or Contracting?". thediplomat.com. The Diplomat. Retrieved 16 December 2021.
"UN System". United Nations. Retrieved 23 November 2024.
Cite error: The named reference unms was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Абхазия, Южная Осетия и Приднестровье признали независимость друг друга и призвали всех к этому же (in Russian). newsru.com. 17 November 2006. Archived from the original on 16 April 2009. Retrieved 5 June 2011.
"Cyprus", The World Factbook, Central Intelligence Agency, 7 June 2023, retrieved 11 June 2023
^ Ker-Lindsay, James (2012). The Foreign Policy of Counter Secession: Preventing the Recognition of Contested States. Oxford University Press. p. 53. ISBN 9780199698394. Archived from the original on 9 October 2013. Retrieved 24 September 2013. In addition to the four cases of contested statehood described above, there are three other territories that have unilaterally declared independence and are generally regarded as having met the Montevideo criteria for statehood but have not been recognised by any states: Transnistria, Nagorny Karabakh, and Somaliland.
Kreuter, Aaron (2010). "Self-Determination, Sovereignty, and the Failure of States: Somaliland and the Case for Justified Secession" (PDF). Minnesota Journal of International Law. 19 (2). University of Minnesota Law School: 380–381. Archived from the original (PDF) on 27 September 2013. Retrieved 24 September 2013. Considering each of these factors, Somaliland has a colorable argument that it meets the theoretical requirements of statehood. ... On these bases, Somaliland appears to have a strong claim to statehood.
International Crisis Group (23 May 2006). "Somaliland: Time for African Union leadership" (PDF). The Africa Report (110). Groupe Jeune Afrique: 10–13. Archived from the original (PDF) on 20 July 2011. Retrieved 19 April 2011.
Mesfin, Berouk (September 2009). "The political development of Somaliland and its conflict with Puntland" (PDF). ISS Paper (200). Institute for Security Studies: 8. Archived from the original (PDF) on 23 November 2011. Retrieved 19 April 2011.
Arieff, Alexis. "de facto Statehood? The Strange Case of Somaliland" (PDF). Yale Journal of International Affairs (Spring/Summer 2008). International Affairs Council at Yale: 1–79. Archived (PDF) from the original on 13 December 2011. Retrieved 17 April 2011.
"Somaliland profile". BBC News. 14 December 2017. Archived from the original on 23 April 2017. Retrieved 27 January 2018.
Jansen, Dinah (2009). "The Conflict between Self-Determination and Territorial Integrity: the South Ossetian Paradigm". Geopolitics Vs. Global Governance: Reinterpreting International Security. Centre for Foreign Policy Studies, University of Dalhousie: 222–242. ISBN 978-1-896440-61-3. Archived from the original on 19 August 2018. Retrieved 14 December 2017.
"Russia condemned for recognising rebel regions". CNN.com. Cable News Network. 26 August 2008. Archived from the original on 29 August 2008. Retrieved 26 August 2008.
"Transnistria profile – Overview". BBC News. 20 November 2022. Retrieved 11 June 2023.

Denmark

Is it supposed to be the state flag? RelliKtiabkcilK (talk) 20:02, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

@RelliKtiabkcilK: No, it isn't. The implementation was hidden deep, but I rectified it with Special:Diff/1261754281. Favonian (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah yes, that was me, sorry. I changed the flag on the article for the Danish Realm from the state flag to the standard flag. I didn't realise there was a data page I had to edit as well. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, ok. I get it. RelliKtiabkcilK (talk) 21:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion of rv

@Chipmunkdavis First off, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays! Anyway, I would like a full justification for your rv. I fully believe that I am following and standardizing the formatting used throughout the article. As for other changes (solving the excessive citations issue for Somaliland, unifying the notes for the top row of both tables, punctuation/grammar, etc.) I will automatically assume that it is alright to add them back if you don't justify reverting those. Cheers mate! HKLionel (talk) 19:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The edit in question was a huge single edit that said cleanup but was doing quite a few things that go beyond cleanup. I saw a few good changes, but what caught my eye and I already mentioned in the edit summary was applying the dependency formatting to autonomous areas. CMD (talk) 02:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh alright, my apologies, I just applied the formatting to entities that had flags under the flag template. I did not know of this beforehand. If that is the only issue, I will add back relevant changes soon. :) HKLionel (talk) 15:03, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there a general list of changes? I noticed the adding of further efns and a few c/es that seemed good. CMD (talk) 16:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I would like to apologize as I am not quite familiar with Misplaced Pages jargon, so I may have misapplied some terms. Anyhow, in my 1st edit:

A. cleaned up links

1. removed nonexistent section link ("summary by country") from dependent territory (line 58)

2. removed redirect to government-in-exile (line 58)

3. corrected section link to coregency by replacing nonexistent section "co-principality" with Andorra (line 84)

4. corrected section link to Commonwealth realm by replacing nonexistent section "relationship between the realms" with interrelationship, fixing the link name accordingly ("Commonwealth realm interrelationship") (line 94)

5. removed redirect to federal states of Austria (line 122)

6. removed redirect to communities, regions, and language areas of Belgium (line 152)

7. removed redirect to federative units of Brazil (line 197)

8. corrected section link to foreign relations of China by replacing nonexistent section "international recognition of the People's Republic of China" with countries without diplomatic relations with the PRC (line 256)

9. removed redirects to Taiwan Area and One China (line 262)

B. added links

1. linked Constitution of Argentina to "Argentine Constitution" (line 94)

2. linked Lithuania (line 152)

3. the note is about the use of Dominion as a name of Canada, so I directly linked it to Name of Canada#Use of Dominion and Dominion#Canada (line 229)

4. linked Bhutan (line 262)

C. c/es

1. rewrote note for formal name of Azerbaijan by aligning it with Azerbaijan#cite note-11 (line 122)

For B2&4, I erroneously linked the country names to their respective articles at first, but I linked them to their respective sections on the list in my second edit in accordance with the rest of the article. That is all the changes I made in my 1st edit, none of which concern the dependency formatting. If you have no objections, I will add these changes back to the article, and summarize the rest of my changes (made in my second edit). HKLionel (talk) 07:13, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Chinland and Wa State

Chinland and Wa State are pretty much de facto independent states in Myanmar and thus should be included in the list Gavfor (talk) 01:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

This list only includes states that either have received recognition or have been assessed by reliable sources as meeting the Montevideo Convention criteria. CMD (talk) 01:25, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Well then maybe Chinland can’t be included because it doesn’t have relations with other states but the Wa State meets all of the requirements, the Wa State well exists and several sources back that up so thus it has a population, the government claims territory and so this it has an established territory, it has a government and reliable sources have talked about the fact that the Wa State exist so thus reliable source back up the fact it has a government, and Reuters, which is considered to be reliable, claims that the Wa State had relations with China so at least the Wa State should be included Gavfor (talk) 02:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that the main thing is that the Wa State itself does not claim to be a sovereign state, so there's no basis for its inclusion in the list even if it fits the criteria of being a sovereign state (which is debatable as well). HKLionel (talk) 06:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

unless I missed something I’m pretty sure there isn’t anything in the article that states that the state itself has to view itself as independent to be included in the list so I’m pretty sure it’s still technically qualified to be in the list Gavfor (talk) 07:14, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Under criteria for inclusion, 2nd paragraph: "For the purposes of this list, included are all polities that consider themselves sovereign states (through a declaration of independence or some other means)..."

It is clearly stated in the Wa State article that it recognizes Myanmar's sovereignty over all of its territory, so it fails this criterion. HKLionel (talk) 04:29, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha> tags or {{efn}} templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} template or {{notelist}} template (see the help page).

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