| Revision as of 22:14, 14 November 2006 editMeowy (talk | contribs)8,706 edits →Re: notability← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 09:06, 28 December 2024 edit undoWoahglaceon (talk | contribs)35 edits →ED Downtime: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit Reply |
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{{Notice|{{find}}}} |
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| style="background:#C0C090; font-weight:bold" align="center" | ] ] Nominations |
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{{not a forum}} |
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{{Old XfD multi |
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<span class="plainlinks">] | |
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| date = January 9 2011 |
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] | |
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| result = '''Speedy keep''' |
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] | |
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| link = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclopedia_Dramatica_(5th_nomination) |
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] |
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| date2 = February 15 2009 |
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| result2 = '''Speedy keep''' |
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| link2 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclopedia_Dramatica_(4th_nomination) |
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| date3 = July 19 2008 |
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| result3 = '''Speedy keep''' |
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| link3 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclopedia_Dramatica_(3rd_nomination) |
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| date4 = May 19 2008 |
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| result4 = '''Keep''' |
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| link4 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclopedia_Dramatica_(2nd_nomination) |
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| date5 = May 8 2008 |
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| result5 = '''Allow recreation''' |
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| link5 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_May_8 |
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| date6 = May 7 2008 |
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| result6 = '''Keep Deleted (speedy close)''' |
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| link6 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_May_7 |
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| date7 = May 3 2008 |
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| result7 = '''Keep Deleted (speedy close)''' |
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| link7 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_May_3 |
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| date8 = March 6 2008 |
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| result8 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link8 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_March_6 |
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| date9 = February 6 2008 |
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| result9 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link9 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_February_6 |
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| date10 = January 10 2008 |
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| result10 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link10 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_January_10 |
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| date11 = December 8 2007 |
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| result11 = '''Keep Deleted (speedy close)''' |
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| link11 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_December_8 |
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| date12 = October 3 2007 |
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| result12 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link12 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_October_3 |
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| date13 = September 8 2007 |
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| result13 = '''Keep Deleted (speedy close)''' |
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| link13 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8 |
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| date14 = July 23 2007 |
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| result14 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link14 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_July_23 |
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| date15 = April 29 2007 |
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| result15 = '''Keep Deleted (speedy close)''' |
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| link15 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_April_29 |
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| date16 = April 23 2007 |
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| result16 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link16 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_April_23 |
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| date17 = November 18 2006 |
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| result17 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link17 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Recently_concluded_(2006_November) |
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| date18 = October 28 2006 |
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| result18 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link18 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Recently_concluded_(2006_October) |
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| date19 = September 5 2006 |
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| result19 = '''Keep Deleted''' |
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| link19 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Recently_concluded_(2006_September) |
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| date20 = July 23 2006 |
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| result20 = '''Deletion Endorsed''' |
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| link20 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Recently_concluded_(2006_July) |
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| date21 = July 23 2006 |
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| result21 = '''Delete''' |
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| link21 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica_(3rd_nomination) |
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| date22 = March 30, 2006 |
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| result22 = '''No consensus''' |
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| link22 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclopaedia_Dramatica |
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| date23 = June 8 2005 |
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| result23 = '''Keep''' |
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| link23 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica |
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| date24 = December 18 2004 |
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| result24 = '''Delete''' |
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| link24 = //en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Encyclopedia_Dramatica |
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{{Connected contributor|Michaeldsuarez|editedhere=yes|declared=yes|banned=yes}} |
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{{banner holder|collapsed=yes|text=Many Afd links|1= |
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}}<!--other banners--> |
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== June 2024 == |
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Log of previous AFD attempts. |
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#] December 13 - 18 2004 '''Delete''' |
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#] June 2 - 8 2005 '''Keep''' |
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#] March 24 - 30 2006 '''No consensus''' |
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#] July 19 - 23 2006 '''Delete''' |
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#: July 23-29 2006 '''Endorse deletion''' |
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#: September 5-6 2006 '''Speedy closed''' |
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Yes, the .top version is now offline so it didn't last very long. It is unclear why this has happened and the site faces another period of uncertainty. '''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 07:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC) |
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{{Quotation|Encyclopædia Dramatica (ED) is a wiki which spoofs and caricatures Misplaced Pages. Its content is provocative, satirical, and often interesting. It makes no pretense of presenting accurate information, focusing rather on what is termed "drama", which is to say, interesting provocative material concerning the internet and its memes. <br>''Pass 5-0 at 02:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)''<br>|Arbitration Committee|]}} |
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:It's back, and according to the Dramatica forum, "] suspended the domain." So off we go with a new domain, with .top holding the record for the shortest tenure at less than a month.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 18:02, 9 June 2024 (UTC) |
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{{Quotation|Links to Encyclopædia Dramatica may be removed wherever found on Misplaced Pages as may material imported from it. <br>''Pass 5-0 at 02:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)''<br><br> |
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Users who are current or past editors of Encyclopædia Dramatica are reminded of the vast policy differences between Misplaced Pages and Encyclopædia Dramatica and admonished to wear their Misplaced Pages hats while here. <br>''Pass 5-0 at 02:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)''|Arbitration Committee|]}} |
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::Re . ED currently has two domains, edramatica.com which was registered on 9 June 2024, and dramatica.wtf which was registered on 13 May 2024 and is also being used for the forums. Since edramatica.com seems to be the main address and dramatica.wtf is a mirror, the article should give edramatica.com as the address per ].--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 10:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC) |
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==Alexa ranking== |
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*I just stumbled upon this page, and had never heard of Encyclopedia Dramatica before. I wanted to verify that it's not notable, but then I did a |
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:::Re : edramatica.com is down at the moment, but it is unclear whether this is a temporary blip or something more serious.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 15:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
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The website for '''Encyclopedia Dramatica''' is ranked 11,491!!! |
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::::I'm an ED regular, and I saw it go down live. When it went down, edramatica.com was replaced with a page that said, "So Don't Do That Then... (This domain has been terminated for abuse)", so I think it's safe to believe that edramatica.com has been suspended by EasyDNS. ] (]) 17:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Thanks, there have been persistent claims in the past few weeks that domain registrars are unhappy with some of the content on ED. Freedom of speech is one thing, deliberate harassment and defamation of living people is another. Since this is all part of the fun (cough, cough) at ED, it leaves them with the difficult task of finding a new domain and web host.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 18:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*And thanks to the wonders of the ], we can see the termination message . It does indeed say "So Don't Do That Then... (This domain has been terminated for abuse)" as a message from ], complete with a dead skeleton pirate. At this rate ED will end up as a ] only, because no domain will have them.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 18:18, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*:The forums at also seem to be down, as all I get is an error message saying "Page could not be loaded". (On other devices I tried, the website won't even load at all and just says "DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN") ] (]) 22:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:They are now on encyclopediadramatica.gay, which was registered with ] on 17 June 2024. So let's see how long this lasts, they have had three new domains in little over a month.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 07:01, 18 June 2024 (UTC) |
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::That might not be the wisest choice, per the ] section of the ] article. I don't know, we'll just have to wait and see how long this one will last for. ] (]) 11:57, 18 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:::OT, but i'm surprised to see ED able to registed the .gay domain at all. ] (]) 11:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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::The .gay website now redirects to edramatica.com, which is working again. ] (]) 22:34, 25 August 2024 (UTC) |
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===.win domain=== |
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That's very, very high. |
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Re : It's true that the site is up and running at .win, but it is also up and running at .gay at the time of writing. This leads to a problem with ] as usually only one URL is given.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 07:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:.gay is the current official domain and hosts both the Encyclopedia Dramatica Forums and the wiki. .win is an unauthorized copy of the site that was made by a disgruntled former wiki sysop. The .win site doesn't even have a forum because the guy who runs it never even had a copy of the forum database (although he tried to beg the owner of .gay for the database). |
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:No one of any importance from .online or any of the previous domains is using .win, they are all on .gay. ] (]) 00:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC) |
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So someone explain to me how this site is not worthy of at least some sort of small article explaining briefly, um, what they do? Yours, ] 10:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC). |
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-- lol, they annoyed some wiki admin so now wikipedia the totally unbiased encyclopedia refuses to list them, despite the fact they list the crappy ] ] 18:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:Interesting. Could someone please provide the links to relevant arbitrations and AFDs relating to this subject here on the discussion page, so people new to this incident like myself can find out why an articel with an is not allowed on Misplaced Pages? Yours, ] 19:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC). |
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::I don't understand why this was deleted and not other pages like ]. I read the delete discussion, but the reasons could apply to so many pages on wikipedia. ] 08:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::The main pages of .gay and .win are different, so they are not a complete mirror. Also, .win does not have the forums which are only on .gay. So it does look like .win is an unofficial mirror and not endorsed by the people at .gay.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 07:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:::That's more an argument to get rid of Uncyclopedia and other articles than to keep this one. Yes, we should get around to deleted a great many pages on wikipedia. ] 19:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC) |
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: Those are 'very interesting' one sided comments by both editors, hmmm, but above statement makes no sense if some ver is accepted or not... .win has more articles, also .win has more quality videos... ] (]) 16:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC) |
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Alexa is compleely worthless for testing popularity, as it is non-representative and extremely easy to manipulate simpl by signing up and going to your own site over and over. I severely doubt that someone "stumbled upon this page" and touts an Alexa ranking in order to argue for its inclusion, as it seems too calculated. The article is gone because it was only herein the first place through calculated spamming and sockpuppets, so more spamming and sockpuppets will not bring it back. ] 19:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::I'm not going to get drawn into an argument over which is the better or more official version, but they are not serving exactly the same content and .win does not have the forum pages.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 16:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:No, I didn't "stumble" on this page. I read ED, and wonder why Misplaced Pages hasn't got an article on it. And how are reasoned arguments spamming? ] 22:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:It would seem that .win is down for the count, leaving edramatica.com as the sole host of the property. The circle of life continues... ''']'''<sub> (]•])</sub> 16:02, 27 September 2024 (UTC) |
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I belive that there is nothing wrong with writing an article about ED. you may say its not notalble, i say its becuase ED has some bad background history with some of the users of wikipedia. hence theres a negative tone to it... or some may just not simply know about it but dont say it shouldnt be written just becuase. |
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::It's hard to keep up with this, but at the time of writing, .gay is completely offline, while .win has a page saying "It's over - for now... Due to reasons that shall not be disclosed I will not be able to run encyclopediadramatica.win anymore - at least all on my own." This means that edramatica.com is the only working version at the moment, and thankfully we no longer have to listen to arguments about whether .win or .gay is the better version, because both of them are unavailable now.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 16:15, 27 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::{{Reply|ianmacm}} I'm beginning to get concerned about the quality of the article, as the list of domains & owners is becoming too unwieldy for the infobox. We should probably find a way to truncate it. ''']'''<sub> (]•])</sub> 17:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Agreed, I'm not sure that the infobox needs to list all of the domains that are now defunct.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 17:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== This looks pretty fishy == |
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== no link? == |
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why is there no link? ] (]) 17:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC) |
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With all the useless crap on wikipedia, are you telling me that ED is less notable than, say, ], a shock site created by a couple of trolls? What kind of ] are we talking here? OK, I know that "one man's crap . . ." but my point still on honesty stands. --] 14:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:It is pointless to argue, the AfD has been passed and two deletion reviews have went through, let's not start the debate all over again... ] was actually nominated for deletion (twice) straight after the ED AfD, but it passed. You may want to just look over those arguments there (linked from its talk page) rather than try to start up new debates here. Same goes for other sites. If you think they are not notable, maybe they should be nominated for deletion - but it doesn't work as an argument to restore this one. As it is, community consensus on this article has been reached and the matter is closed. Maybe later in a couple of months if something ''new'' comes up which changes the situation it can be put up for review again.--]<sup>]</sup> 19:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::Why shouldn't we start the debate over again? And why wait a couple of months? There's an obvious problem here: Uncyclopedia is featured, and tbh I think it's worth a mention, and obviously so did other people: so why isn't ED? ED has more reasons to be mentioned: it's been part of controversy that's been featured on the news. There's also Misplaced Pages controversy that's certainly worth documenting, if only to comment on how successful and objective the project can really be with an administration elite. Or is that not a topic we're allowed to discuss? There should be another vote. ] 22:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:::We should not have another vote because 1) AfDs are not votes, neither are deletion reviews, we ] here 2) Last discussion was just last month! 3) The community decision was to delete and the deletion has already been reviewed twice. Restarting closed discussions over and over again to try to get a different result is just pointless and disruptive. Now I can't remember how I got to this page, but I am leaving this matter - as all you need to know is really on top of the page already and there is no point in me replying to everyone questioning it.--]<sup>]</sup> 00:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::::Actually, the lasty discussion was in July. And it's ironic tht you say "restarting closed discussions over and over again to try and get a different result," since that's what got it deleted in the first place. --] <small>]</small> 00:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:::::I have not participated in any of those discussions, not even the more recent ones, neither have I read any them, but there are quite big gaps between them all (6 months, 9 months, 4 months). Now it's been just over 1 month since the last review. Are we going to bring this matter every month now? If it wasn't fair to keep restarting the discussions there I still see no reason why this excuses restarting the long discussions yet again. But do as you will, I'm not stopping anyone, I just see no point to do it so soon - it will just annoy everyone to see it brought up yet again and will end up being a speedy close even if just because no time has passed since the previous review.--]<sup>]</sup> 00:27, 27 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::::::No, it's been roughly four months since the last review, not one. The "one" you continually refer to was never actually a discussion, it was speedy closed out of process. I'm not going to restart the discussion anytime soon, but the MSNBC feature throws a major wrench in the works, regardless. --] <small>]</small> 00:28, 27 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:::::::The website offended the wrong people here, it makes a lot of hurtful personal attacks about wikipedians. Even if it becomes ''really'' notable, the article still probably won't be recreated, because it attacks our sysops. Remember that the site was created out of an unfavorable AfD closing. In this light, they've followed ] and removed the article. '''] (]·]·])''' 22:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::::::::Well, my last comment was deleted by some emo mod, so let me just repost the gist of what I had to say: stop being vindictive and reform the article. It's quite evident that the site is completely notable and has a cult fanbase, so therefore the only reason the Wiki entry is not being recreated is because a bunch of mods are being babies and holding a grudge against said site for making fun of them and Misplaced Pages. Are you people really THAT petty? Way to put personal politics before encyclopediac interest, hypocrites. ] 08:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC) |
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] doesn't apply to article subjects... ], ], etc. This is obvious. Misplaced Pages doesn't take a stance against ]ing in mainspace. Also, ED's not a troll wiki m'kay. Point it, ] doesn't give WP sysops leeway to make subjective value judgements on article subjects. Not that I want an ED article here (see below), but just sayin'. ] 18:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:There have been so many ups and downs in 2024 that it is hard to keep track of them all. However, the article is correct that edramatica.com is currently the only one that is online. There is also a problem with ] due to unsuitable material on the main page (harassment, ] etc).--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 17:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Encyclopedia Dramatica is featured on MSNBC == |
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::I'm not sure why the user keeps deleting this as it answered the question and it's useful for other editors who might ask the same question. ] (]) 23:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::as of 12/20/24, edramatica.com is down with the "timed out" error, awaiting further information. ] (]) 06:51, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::IsItDownRightNow says that it has been down for over a week. This means that at the time of writing, the site is not online at all. This isn't a major panic, as ED has been offline for weeks in the past and returned. Watch this space.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 08:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Are you checking some other ED mirror? I'm taking about edramatica.com, which was back on the same day it got down, which was 12/20/24. ] (]) 18:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::I couldn't access edramatica.com yesterday (20 December), but it is back online today. IsItDownRightNow agrees and says "Last down: 1 day 10 hours ago.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 20:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== ED Downtime == |
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edramatica.com is down again. |
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this justifies relevance for the website based on Wiki standards. |
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(12/23/24) ] (]) 06:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:edramatica.com is back up. (12/23/24) ] (]) 09:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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] 23:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:There's really only one notable point to this whole story and that centers on Internet privacy questions surrounding ]'s ]. WP has that angle covered. ''(]])'' 12:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::Um, that's just one press report. Sure, individual ones aren't enough on their own, but it's one of many. Many. Most subjects here would not get an article based on only one. But the point is, this isn't just blogs and online news anymore, it's REAL LIFE OMG. I personally don't want an ED article (NO chance of neutrality with this crowd), but hey - it's something to think about. ] 18:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC) |
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::I'm relaxed about this, as ED's hosting is famously unreliable. It has been offline for days or weeks in the past.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 12:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Notability == |
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:::Sorry for the long delay, edramatica.com was back up the next day. ] (]) 09:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Is it correct that, per the arbcom decision above, there will never be an article about ED, regardless of how notable ED is or might become in the future? That seems somehow unencyclopaedic. —] 07:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC) |
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*Makes you wonder. ] 06:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::I think I'm sorry I brought it up now... —] 07:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::: :-D Lol ] 03:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC) |
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==Stopped By== |
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I heard about Encyclopedia Dramatica, and stopped by here to check it out before I went to the site. I was a little disappointed to find that there's no entry. I don't want to get into the whole debate, but I'm just documenting this. '''<span style="color: #F53DAB">]<sup>-]-</sup><sub>-]</sub></span>''' 02:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC) |
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==Re: notability== |
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Alexa ranking: 10,689 {{-}} |
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Google search for ''"Encyclopedia Dramatica" -site:encyclopediadramatica.com'': 55,000+ results |
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Honestly, it seems to have a large following, and I think it should at least go in the ] (which includes entries on obscure wikis such as ] (~30,000 google results for ''"Encyclopedia Gamia"'' and Alexa rank 1,011,030) and ] (17,500 google hits and Alexa rank 2,906,398), both of which also have their own articles).—] 22:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:I think it's high notiability is the only reason why the admins haven't blanked this talk page like they have done before it got all that media coverage of late. They got rid of its article in a ] simply because they didn't like the material on the site. I'm not saying the material is angelic or anything like that, just that's the secret reasoning behind Misplaced Pages's reasons for its non-inclusion. ] 01:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::Speaking as one of the voices for deletion, and someone who likes ED very much, that's not an accurate statement. The reason the article got deleted was that, at the time, there wasn't any information in reliable secondary sources. That made the contents of the article "original research", which is the ''only'' reason for deletion that many of us were citing in that discussion. Some of us interpret ] kind of narrowly, and take it rather seriously. I hate to be tarred with the "ED hater" brush, seeing as I love ED and consider several of its editors my friends. If the article had consisted of content verifiable in reliable secondary sources, then it would still be here, like ] is. |
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::By now, ArbCom has made a ruling against even linking to ED from this website, so I don't see recreation happening very easily. The best way for it to happen is for those supporting the article to hold themselves to a high standard of reliable sources and come up with an article that wouldn't fall afoul of ''anybody's'' definition of original research. Arguing to keep an unpopular article and at the same time appearing lax in one's application of ] and ] is a sure recipe for failure. -]<sup>(])</sup> 02:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:::It's definitely notable, but yeah, GT pretty much hit it right on the head... of the nail... or however that goes. I guess there were no reliable sources, from the bacup copies I've seen. Plus it was kinda written mostly by ED editors and was a lot about ED and it's relationship to Misplaced Pages. If anyone wants to have it recreated, follow GTBacchus's advice, seeing as how he's really the most rational-thinking/acting person concerning this fiasco. ] 03:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::::If I could find sources? - ] 00:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:::::Folks, I'd recommend working on developing an article on this but at the same time I would recommend not wasting your time trying to bring this to ] until some months have gone by because this has just gone through that and been shut down... again. ''(]])'' 00:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC) |
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It is completely absurd that this site has no wikipedia entry. It's been featured in national media, has a cult fan base, and has a reasonably high Alexa ranking. The article should be unprotected immediately. {{unsigned|Aerotive|03:53, 11 November 2006}} |
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:I'm in complete agreement. I just discovered the site today, and spent some 3 or 4 hilariously happy hours browsing it. The fact that Misplaced Pages has chosen to censor news of its very existence testifys that the "Wikiholes" (as encyclopediadramatica terms them) of Misplaced Pages have done more damage to Misplaced Pages's credibility than any words on encyclopediadramatica could ever do.] 22:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC) |
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Yes, the .top version is now offline so it didn't last very long. It is unclear why this has happened and the site faces another period of uncertainty. ♦IanMacM♦ 07:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
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