Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:33, 29 April 2007

Response

I took into consideration very carefully the sockpuppet rules before deciding to use any. Neither of these socks has done anything I haven't done as ChrisGriswold. Additionally, I have used these for editing separate areas of Misplaced Pages. Never have I used these to alter votes or to create any sort of false consensus. In the case of Taylor Allderdice, I was using Superburgh mainly to maintain a Pittsburgh-related watchlist that I would then log in and edit as ChrisGriswold, but in this case I appear not to have properly made the switch. I have experience in these areas that makes me especially suited to editing them, but unfortunately, because I use my real name, I may be affected by some of the edits I feel need to be made. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 17:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I would appreciate diffs showing wrongdoing because none are stated in the checkuser request. Sockpuppets are allowed for the reasons I have cited. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 17:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I also would appreciate coming to some sort of understanding so that I can continue to use these sockpuppets in an undisruptive manner. As I said, Superburgh was really more for maintaining a separate watchlist, which I have seen other admins do before. And TIC took over editing tasks that I didn't want my name attached to anymore so that I could be more objective in my edits. Either way, I would appreciate my name not being too attached to these accounts. I am considering changing my user name completely. Because I just can't do the type of editing I feel needs to be done under my own name. I have deleted the two socks' userpages for now solely because of my anonymity worries; I would appreciate it if we could finish this discussion before a decision is made in that regard. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 17:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The aggressive editing style of Superburgh raises concern that you were using a sock to avoid scrutiny on your main account. If you were aware of consensus discussions on the talk page and the mediation for this article (Taylor Allderdice), why did you revert and not discuss your changes with the Superburg account? Avoiding Misplaced Pages dispute resolution is not the appropriate use of a sock account. FloNight 17:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, it was accidental that I made the edits with that account. I would have made the same edits with this account. I do understand that because this was a sockpuppet, it appears abusive, and I am sorry that it appears so. My life has been chaotic recently and I have had maddeningly spotty Internet service, so my edits have become somewhat scattered. I no longer make long, committed edits like I used to because I don't know how long I will be on, and when I am on, I have often forgotten what it was I last worked on. I have been very careful to keep these accounts separate, but the use of the Superburgh watchlist tripped me up. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 17:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I was proud to edit with my own name, but the sort of abuse an admin gets thrown at him made that extremely difficult and I found it hard to edit as myself in addition to that. In the end, I will accept whatever judgment is given, but I ask that I be able to change my account name and that these socks be attributed to the new name. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that you need to stop using the sock accounts if you are prone to making errors that appear to be abusive use of a sock account. Can you agree to stop using socks now. And do you have other sock accounts? And if so, why? I think it is best that you use a single account going forward. You pick which account or are you saying that you want a totally new one? FloNight 18:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I will stop using sock accounts. I have no more. I would keep this one and continue with that, if the sock accounts could not be linked to this one. I would just have to go back to editing only comics articles, and I suppose I am OK with that. As for why I have them, as I said above, I was overwhelmed by the sort of abuse directed at me as an admin without the sort of shield an anonymous username would provide, but I also became overwhelmed by the size of my watchlist and became unable to edit with any comfort unless I split my watchlists up into something more managable. Previousl;y I proposed the idea of an "active watchlist" that shows only maintains a watchlist of articles you edit with regularity, but it's a while off before something like that is implememented. It's pretty clear I just need some time away from the project, and I would like to volunteer to do this myself. I just really am concerned about backlash against me personally, and I would appreciate being removed from the connection to Truth in Comedy, which was never used abusively, even accidentally, and whose edits I didn't feel as comfortable making with my own name. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Then, if you are proud to use your name, why should you use sockpuppets? Superburgh is specially controversial. Please, just don't use that accounts anymore. Be aware you're an admin, you must be an example to the rest of us. And also be aware that your postition means greater responsabilities: if you continue using them as the way you have, you'll surely get an admin abuse report against. And attribution should be done to your current account, of course. --Neigel von Teighen 18:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I am proud of my work with the WikiProjects I have been involved with or even started. I am proud of my handling of certain situations prior to this debacle. I was putting together a project on my own to use Misplaced Pages as part of an assignment in the history and English classes in my old high school. A series of unfortunate things happened, unfortunately, and my use and feelings about Misplaced Pages changed due to some amazing (at least to me) pressures and changes in my life. I would like to continue to work on and better this project, but it's clear that I'm burnt out and have been for some time. I need to take some time away so that I can come back and contribute with the strength that I used to. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Very wrong

OK...this is really wrong. As Truth in Comedy you got into an edit war with SpyMagician (see this talk page) but then you went to SpyMagician's talk page as admin ChrisGriswold to "sort it out". . You were even disingenuous about it saying "Additionally, I edit with my own name, so I am upfront about any such conflicts of interest." (which you obviously weren't doing) and pretending you didn't know your other identity saying "I have seen the way you follow Future Whatever around from article to article" (as Truth in Comedy you always signed posts "Future Fun Jumper (TIC)"). Not right at all. IrishGuy 18:20, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the edits I was making were those of the sort I had been making with my main account but had not been questioned because I was an admin, and I tried to approach the situation from another angle. Since then, I have avoided any such gray ethical areas completely. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

What is really disturbing to me is that SpyMagician pointed out that "ChrisGriswold" had a COI on at least one comedy article...and all this time you were editing numerous ones as TIC and denying any knowledge of it. Even defending TIC in your capacities as an admin. That is abuse of your position. Chris, I have never had a problem with you. I have gotten along with you fine before this...but you even asked me to step in with SpyMagician when the truth was you were edit warring with him using two accounts. IrishGuy 18:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I have never hidden any conflicts of interest I have had. I don't have conflicts of interest in the articles I edited as TIC. I don't know the subjects of those articles. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:40, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Why were you making contentuous edits (many other users had issue with TIC's edits) and then continuing to edit war with the ChrisGriswold account? Not just edit war, but chastise others in an admin capacity in defense of TIC. You have to realize that this creates an appearance of multiple editors sharing an opinion when in fact it was a single editor with multiple accounts. IrishGuy 19:08, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:SOCK

(edit conflict)As I said above, I reviewed WP:SOCK before deciding that this was an appropriate use of socks.

from Legitimate uses of multiple accounts:

• A user making substantial contributions to an area of interest in Misplaced Pages might register another account to be used solely in connection with developing that area.
• Someone who is known to the public or within a particular circle may be identifiable based on his/her interests and contributions; dividing these up between different accounts might help preserve the person's anonymity. Users with a recognized expertise in one field, for example, might not wish to associate their contributions to that field with contributions to articles about less weighty subjects.
• A person editing an article which is highly controversial within his/her family, social or professional circle may wish to use a sock puppet so that readers unfamiliar with NPOV policy will not assume his/her information edits are statements of personal belief.
• A person editing an article as part of their work or professional life as an academic, for example or an expert in a field of advocacy who wants or needs to keep their personal interests which may be considered controversial separate.

These were all reasons I felt my use of socks was appropriate. Because I understood my TIC edits to be more controversial, editing and AFDs for comedy group articles, I kept it entirely separate from my main account. Because Superburgh was primarily just a second watchlist, I made the mistake of editing with that account on an article that months ago I had a disagreement on while using my main account. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

As I noted above, when your TIC actions were controversial, your admin account got involved to defend those actions. That is incredibly wrong. IrishGuy 18:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I have responded above. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

A second account's not a "right", it's something "tolerated". - David Gerard 18:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The page detailed legitimate uses, so while some editors may dislike sock puppets entirely, it seemed like it was something that was recognized as an option. I apologize for my misunderstanding. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:32, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Corrective action ASAP

Chris, you need to take corrective action ASAP. Pick one account. Promise never to use socks again. Promise to stop aggressive editing non-consensus style editing. FloNight 18:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see the below section. Of course I promise all of those things and I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused everyone. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion for an end to this.

I will take 1-2 months' time away from Misplaced Pages. When I return, I will use this username to guarantee that my actions will again be sound. I would like to have another admin I could check in with to verify that I am acting appropriately. I will note the prior, mistaken use of sockpuppets on my user page. I ask only that the socks remain blocked but that the TIC one not be linked to my real name.

Additionally, I would like to make an apology where it is deemed appropriate.

This was a lapse in judgment during a time in which I probably should have taken time away from Misplaced Pages. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do you not want the TIC one not to be linked to your real name? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 18:47, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Because I am a comedian. With the amount of abuse and threats I was getting as an admin, I was getting paranoid about editing anything that might lead someone to be able to attack me in real life. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Taking a break

I am stepping away for a short while today due to exhaustion. I didn't want anyone to think that my upcoming lack of response has anything to do with any disinterest in the situation; instead, I am already very sick today and ought to be in bed regardless. I treat this situation very seriously, and while I went into it with good intentions, I do see the problems, and I do want to rectify the my errors in judgment. I'd rather my responses be well reasoned and fully committed to the discussion than fevered ramblings powered by caffeine. You all have taken time out to look into this situation, and you deserve my undivided attention. I will be back to further answer questions and address concerns. Thanks, Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

That is fine. You might want to rethink your offer to take off 1-2 months. For someone addicted to editing Misplaced Pages that is a very long time. Personally, I would be fine with a shorter break and an offer to return and work on administrative tasks with long backlogs. Using your admin tools to help the community is a good thing. FloNight 19:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

another suggestion for an end

Posting this apology to the people who have found him out is fine, but one would hope ChrisGriswold would deem it appropriate to apologize to the people he disrupted. I think ChrisGriswold should revert the disruptive edits Superburgh made to Taylor Allderdice High School which contradicted the consensus in which ChrisGriswold was a participant. ChrisGriswold should then notify the other editors of his actions on the Taylor Allderdice High School talk page. 0-0-0-Destruct-0 19:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)