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Gothador

Gothador (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Online RPG, no evidence of notability. Alexa rank of its website has been fluctuating, but since February it's over 100.000. Delete. - Mike Rosoft 07:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete - No assertion of notability, unsourced. Fails WP:ATT. DarkSaber2k 08:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. DarkSaber2k 09:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - A google search reveals 10 hits, only 2 of which are in context, 0 of which are reliable sources. Marasmusine 17:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete re: WP:SNOW Matt Brennen 20:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. Outwar clones are a dime a dozen (Urban Dead, Earth: 2025, Nation States, Starships!, Kingdom of Loathing, etc). No notability per WP:WEB, no article. Zetawoof 23:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. fails notability. Sephiroth BCR 00:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. I would like to note that many of the previous posts are from former players of the game. This is a bit biased in my opinion. The article defines what the game is about and will be of interest to those who like to play MMRPG's in the future. The players might want to be more active in updating the article though. I did a google search myself and found many entries that were related to the game including the Wikki article. I would vote to definitely keep this article Midnightmedic 11:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC) This template must be substituted.
  • And how exactly can you tell they are former players just from their posts in this AfD? Maybe you could tell us how your search yields 'many' entries as sources, when another editors yielded only 10. Do you have any argument that isn't based in WP:ILIKEIT, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS#It doesn't do any harm, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS#It's useful, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS#It's interesting and attempting to unveil a 'conspiracy' of former players? You've failed to address the notability issue also. Whilst it is by no means the be-all and end-all of notability, this sites Alexa Ranking seems to be especially poor. DarkSaber2k 11:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I stand corrected, I have no proof, but I do recognize at least one of the names. I am not saying that there is a 'conspiracy.' So far there seems to be little to no actual discussion, just delete or speedy delete with little to no reason attached. I'm not sure what 'proof' you are looking for, I did a google search and it returned at least 10 pages of content. Others have failed to show any proof at all or even leave a remark. I am also curious as to why you are so vehement against this entry.Midnightmedic 11:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC) — Midnightmedic (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
    • You stand corrected again: A google search reveals 10 hits, only 2 of which are in context, 0 of which are reliable sources. Marasmusine 17:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC) Failed to show proof or remark on the sources you say? Have you even read any of the comments here? I'm not vehement against the entry, just people who make keep arguments that are absolutely not based on any wikipedia policies bar how not to argue for a keep, and people who can only make arguments based round 'conspiracy theories.' Policies cited as a reason for deletion: WP:WEB, WP:N, WP:RS, WP:ATT. Misplaced Pages policies cited as a reason for keeping the article: None. Additionally, 'I recognize one of the names' is an extremely weak reason to claim many of the previous posts are from former players of the game. It's a big wide web out there, and many time I've found someone else using 'my' name, and I'm positive I'm not the only one. DarkSaber2k 11:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Thank you for pointing out my faults DarkSaber2k. I will do what I can to research the links you posted and add to that. I would also like to know how you only got 10 hits on a google search. I simply typed in 'Gothador' and returned, as I said, at least 10 pages. Happy surfing todayMidnightmedic 11:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC) — Midnightmedic (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
      • I didn't do the search, Masamune did, so ask him. The obligation to provide a reliable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not with those seeking to remove it. So it's up to you to provide links to these 'at least 10 pages' (so I'm expecting more than 10 if there are 'at least' that many) that satisfy the reliable source criteria. DarkSaber2k 11:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Is relevent, http://www.tucows.com/preview/363018 , google search returns approximately 10,300 hits, 16 relevant unique hits on the first 2 pages, http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/wpn-60-200701122007TheYearoftheOnlineGame.htm shows as #7 with average time logged (As of 12JAN07)SeanKelly1986 12:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC) — SeanKelly1986 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

So your saying this must be considered notable because a lot of time is spent on the site? DarkSaber2k 12:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• Merely pointing out where in the article it was. More sources: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.gothador.com, http://www.gamewyrd.com/others/cyber884, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gothador, http://www.mpogd.com/games/game.asp?ID=2688, www.answers.com/topic/gothador . What do YOU define as a "Reliable source"?SeanKelly1986 12:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC) — SeanKelly1986 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I don't define reliable sources, wikipedia does. The top link wont work on my PC, the same goes for the second, I'll have to check them later. Urban Dictionary nearly made me wet myself laughing. You genuinely believe that is a reliable source? A web site where anyone can submit any word they've made up and have a 99.9% chance of having it accepted? As for MPOGD, a listing on a database that aims to list every online game in existence is hardly a notable claim to fame. It's like to trying to argue that you should have an article because your names in the phone book. As for Answers.com, I think you'll find if you look closely you will see THEIR article is actually credited to Misplaced Pages, as is nearly all their information. DarkSaber2k 12:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• I would like to see you back up your argument against Urban Dictionary with some sort of source. I don't see anything about the MPOGD site trying to "List every online game in existence" as well. In response to your comment about Answers.com ... that pretty much says the article IS being used and referencedSeanKelly1986 — SeanKelly1986 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

(resetting indent) MPOGD is called the Multiplayer Online Game Directory (or possibly Database, can't remember without checking, but it doesn't affect the point). It lists online games, anyone can submit links to new games, which are then duly listed. I know because I submitted a couple myself. As for providing sources to prove the unreliability of a source, don't be absurd. You have to prove Urban Dictionary is reliable, not me prove it unreliable. And like I said with MPOGD, I've submitted things to Urban Dictionary myself. Anyone can sign up to be an editor and approve or disapprove of the new entries. I could join up, approve my own definition of myself and attempt to add a wikipedia article claiming 'but I'm listed on Urban Dictionary'. DarkSaber2k 13:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - why - 1/ Ive read the summary of the game and whilst it is slightly out of date (but as the game is alwyas expanding it could be out of date withing hours of typeing) is quite acurate and factual. It makes no appearance as an advertisement - simply an article on a game -- 2/ There is one point made earlier that QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>>> Delete. Outwar clones are a dime a dozen (Urban Dead, Earth: 2025, Nation States, Starships!, Kingdom of Loathing, etc). No notability per WP:WEB, no article. Zetawoof(ζ) 23:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC) <<<<<<<<< there are many outwar clones. Having read part of the list of MMORPGs and part of the DELETION list I see that apparently other games are not being deleted. That to me indicates this whole session as having been started as a hatewar against the game and more accurately either its creators or a personal issue with another player. It would seem to me that if Gothador were to be dleted - one must delet ALL games that have any simillarities to each oher keeping (after much research) only those with the most orriginality and only within a generic group teh apparently oldest FrankNStien 13:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC) FrankNStien — FrankNStien (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

As a matter of fact, I've tagged over 30 Browser-based MMOs for speedy deletion in the last couple of weeks whilst patrolling lists for accumulated junk articles, all but 2 of which were deleted for actually being non-notable. So once again Midnightmedic FrankNStien, there is no conspiracy outside of your own head. Now do you have an argument for keeping that isn't based on WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS and WP:ILIKEIT, or is that all you have like you the other two 'keep' sayers stated earlier? DarkSaber2k 13:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

KINDLY don't lump people who are posting things without any sort of sources, and those who ARE posting relevant sources in the same group.SeanKelly1986 14:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

When you finally post a reliable source, I'll consider changing how I think of you. DarkSaber2k 14:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep

This is a topic that seems to be slowly spiralling into a heated debate, and the best way to battle in this is with logic and facts. I will make it a point to keep my facts succinct and to the point to avoid any undue distress to any of the parties involved with this discussion.
Fact: Hunted Cow Studioscreated a game that has spanned the globe in a matter of months, and has managed to sustain that game for years. This MMORPG game that we are currently discussing has an amazing 103978 registered users for their forum which is conjoined with their game, Gothador. That can be shown here
Fact: Even with that many registered users, Hunted Cow Studios manages at least one game upgrade per week along with weekly updates and their recently implemented 24 hour live support feature.
Fact: Gothador has over 10,00 listings on Google alone including listings on Big Online Games, Tucows.com, and File Planet. These are sites that are regularly visited by hundreds of thousands of gamers everyday.
Any argument can be made as to why Gothador should or should not remain in Misplaced Pages, but the final decision is not going to be made due to who can try and defame another person. The only way that a fair and impartial decision can be made is by playing the game. The comradery that the game brings, the amazing ability for a small company from Elgin, Scotland to create a game that spans the globe, can only be experienced and decided upon as an individual. Gothador will not be diminished if we are no longer listed in Misplaced Pages, though the reverse should be assessed. If over one hundred thousand people play this online game with immense satisfaction and a website arbitrarily decides to delete our game from it's listing, then perhaps the people that enjoy the game could merely forget to surf to Misplaced Pages. Word of mouth, or in this case, pixel, is more powerful than any advertisement. Gothador will still be there, and we'll have more time to commit to our online hobby. --NytDunne 15:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)NytDunne - Gothador Supporter Nyt

• Keep Yet another one Darksabre? Tsk tsk. You have somthing against these game don't you... I will be taking the whole thing to arbitration the minute I figure out how. I don't think the destruction of 40 odd articles in the same category is on. Not without a proper debate on the nature of the category... I also note that most of these were 'speedy deletes', unfortunately you and a few rogue admins seem to think notability is valid for a speedy delete, apparently it is not, i read the policy and it appears speedy deletes should only be for copyright issues. People like you will kill WP DarkSabre. I still note you have about ZERO actual proper edits to WP, you contribute NOTHING outside of 'Doom metal' which is about as notable as my arse, but delete anything that gets in your way using an incorrect method. WPs inherent beurocracy is the only reason you get away with it, because most of us don't have the time to fight all this rubbish. Back to the point, SeanKelly1986's links prove notability. Oh yes they do. Bjrobinson 15:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

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