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| Hi | |||
| if you want to make changes and leave comments on the Wiki BKSWU, could you please enter your objections and citations on the Discussion page first. | |||
| If you are going to state that the information is fabricated, that is to say a lie, could you please specifically identify which elements and present your citation to counter them. | |||
| It would help if you can disclose what authority you have on the subject. | |||
| Thanks. | |||
| ] 18:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Misplaced IP address == | |||
| Hi. | |||
| for some reason you misplaced an IP address I am given in the history page of the BKWSU topic. | |||
| Why and what do you want? | |||
| If you want to make changes and allegation of falsehood, use the Discussion page and place your citations. | |||
| The WIkipedia is not an advert for your religion. | |||
| Thanks. ] 21:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Inaccurate information on BKWSU topic == | |||
| OK, | |||
| here is your chance to discuss this matter off the main BKWSU discussion page, you state, " You know that the information is not quite accurate" | |||
| Be specific. | |||
| I have in front of me numerous articles produced by the BKWSU that predicted the end of the world in 1976 and considerable evidence to state that Brahma Baba believed in it being so. | |||
| * a Lakshmi Narayan picture the date June 1967 that says, | |||
| " Corruption, Irreligiousness, Unrighteousness, Vices, Insolvency and suffering will come to an end in Bharat within 9 years and Golden-aged Deity-world Sovereignty of Shri Lakshmi and Shri Narayana will come to be re-estabilished soon after the forth-coming huge world destruction. " | |||
| * A picture of " The Ladder " from the same time in which the date of destruction is given as "in ten years". | |||
| * Another images of Brahma Baba, Saraswati and other now senoir BKs in which it says, " Confluence Age of 40 years ". | |||
| * There are Murlis in which it is said 50 years for Destruction and 50 years for Creation and then are re-edited to 60 / 40. We are now in the 70th year. | |||
| With regards the abuse by friends and family, of course, the fault is at the hands of the offenders and not the instution. The rape referred to, ask Dr Nirmala. It happened in Australia and was high profile, making the national and international media. A partner of a female BK did so after she joined Raja Yoga and refused to carry on relationships. | |||
| With regards to the double suicides within one family, ask Sisters Jayanti and Janki. They can inform you. | |||
| With regards the child sex abuse, ask Sisters Jayanti and Janki again. | |||
| As regards the physical abuse and mild torture, check back issues of Purity and other works by Jagdish Chander, these involved BKs being locked in barrels with rats, pinned under beds by ahnd and feet and what can only be called torture by what can be called local " witch doctors " in India. | |||
| I could also add categorically new pregnant BK sisters being given Shrimat to have abortions but it seemed a little irrelevant for the article. | |||
| OK. So what specifically do you have an issue with? You provide your citable sources, I'll provide mine but you will need more than just copy and paste PR from their website. | |||
| Thanks. ] 22:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Nonsense == | |||
| Hi | |||
| when you have checked the references, can you correct what you write on your User page re; nonsense. | |||
| Thanks. | |||
| ] 21:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Dear Jesselp, | |||
| I would like to take issue with your comments of the Child Abuse Report by Eromain and the personal jibes in trying to discredit him. | |||
| *First, someone was kind in placing the Child Abuse Report in the critical section as it is all verifiable as the report provides the letters from the organisation to Eromain and the letter from the student that brought this to his attention. I read the full report and please trust that things aren’t just placed there for fun, but rather for genuine information from verifiable sources. | |||
| *Secondly, if you do not know who he is then you must go back and see that he gave many years to the organisation, had a highly regarded position within the organisation and was also a child in it. This shows me that you do not fully know the organisations history and are merely defending it from feelings. I doubt that you read the full report otherwise you would have written in earnest to the organisation yourself to see if children and their well being are protected since you mentioned you are studying psychology. | |||
| *Thirdly, I commend Eromain for taking the time (years by evidence in the report), energy, diligence to see that children are protected (WORLD WIDE) and not allowed to be abused by an organisation that chooses to blame the victim (A CHILD) and do nothing. He was a teacher within the organisation and has proven to be a more worthy one out of the organisation being that he chose not to look the other way and do what others within the organisation should have seen as their moral obligation to the protection of children entrusted in their care. | |||
| *Fourthly, are these individuals still there, have they continued their pedophilia unchecked? Do you believe it is the KARMA of the CHILD? Would you blame the child? When you come back with a link stating that they publically apologised to the victims and that those responsible have been ousted or prosecuted we will be more than happy to have you place the link in. As nothing would please us more as to send a message to perpetrators that sexual ABUSE of CHIDREN is wrong. | |||
| *As to Heide Fittkau-Garthe, Near-Death Experience/Heide Fittkau-Garthe, 1998 well this shows the clear problems of a sub-sect coming from one that is "Deity" based. So, please do read all the sources and then come back and debate the issues. | |||
| I hope your exams went well. | |||
| Regards,] 06:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Hi | |||
| as a psychology student you will have access to knowledge of how ] works. | |||
| • firstly, to automatically sign your posts on articles or user's discussion pages, simply use 4 of the " ~ " characters, usually alt-n. This will datestamp your comments with your name or IP address. | |||
| • have you checked with the Senior Sisters any of the allegations or documentation from the child abuse to the false "end of the world" predictions including the organisations re-writing of the Murli? | |||
| You left a comment on my user page, I do not know if it was addressed to me or the other contributor with whom I have no connection Talkabout. | |||
| Try these links ; | |||
| *http://www.brahmakumaris.info/upload/9/97/Ladder_A4.jpg | |||
| *http://www.brahmakumaris.info/index.php/Image:Tree.jpg | |||
| *http://www.brahmakumaris.info/index.php/Image:Cycle_and_Trimurti_A4.jpg | |||
| Originally, God Shiva and the BKWSU taught that this World would only last 40 years - in these links from original teaching posters inthe 60s it is clearly stated. But after Destruction at the hands of " Science Proud Westerners " did not happen in 1976, this was changed to 100 years; 50 years for destruction of impure human civilisation and 50 years for its re-creation. Again when Destruction did not take place in the mid-1980s, this was changed to 50 to 60 years for Destruction and 40 years for re-creation. As the BKWSU is now celebrating its 70th anniversary, the issue is so some degree avoided. | |||
| ] 11:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| i did not mention then because they don't really show any criticism of the bks. and anyway so what if things change, as to what they teach its called a study like science if that stayed the same we would be in the stone ages. or think that the earth was flat. BKWSU the U stands for university, they teach raja yoga. and unfortunately things have to change just like they do in science, quantum physics is almost rubbishing a large proportion of today's scientific theory and there is another theory on time suggestions that time is not linear but time is all at once. so yes research etc etc takes place in a study or subject and things do change. thats life. peace | |||
| Dear Jesselp, | |||
| User 195.82.106.244 is correct in stating that we have NO connection. As you know many people participated here to create this page so by "we" I am simply am acknowledging the group effort in contributing to Brahma Kumaris page. I do appriciate your thoughts and comments. So, if the message was for me, I have noted it. I will presume the above message was by you (Jesselp) and addressed to 195.82.106.244 PEACE] 15:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Dear Jesselp, | |||
| *I do believe that “T” was referencing to celibacy as taught to children and also the BK tenent of being neither female nor male but cherishing the “FEMALE” aspect as only females are leaders within the organisation and they are the only ones in charge. So, I do believe he is correct in stating that he is the first to write about it from a child’s perspective and the damage done by said tenents. | |||
| *The “Deity” aspect does create problems when individuals return to society. In psychology I am sure you are familiar with the God Complex! | |||
| *As to Prince Charles do write him and ask. | |||
| *As to the CIA giving clearance to the BKs I don’t know of such a report, please provide a link. My understanding of clearances for Heads of State i.e., the Holy Seal is that it is done by the Secret Service and not the CIA. My understanding from reading an article is that one US state did have the Brahma Kumaris under surveillance post 911 if I find the link I will provide it. I didn’t think it merited being added as it didn’t provide the report nor the reason for this action. | |||
| *As to “bks were in connection with the late Pope”, this I find to be far reaching. I see they have his photo on their website as if there were some affiliation and there is not. As with all political events, they look as though they just said they wanted to give him flowers. He was always a man that never turned anyone away even reaching out to his attacker in the assassination attempt. I once got a ticket to see him, because I had good connections, took several photos and no I don’t claim to be “connected to him”. I think it is ill advised to use the image of a world humanitarian to elevate an organisation. The organisation should put forth their own work by which to be measured with out alluding to connections that are not there. Please provide proof of said connections/affiliations. | |||
| *As to the Jewish comparison I don’t think we need to go there. Please join the discussion forum @ www.brahmakumaris.info to banter about that under their BK section for active BKs. | |||
| *As to the positives? Well, I have tried to find a link or information on the work of Brother Nirvir who I understand was working on positive outcomes in pain management in India I believe. I realize that the organisation only promotes the women and so I am not surprised that I haven’t found anything. | |||
| *As to what I seek? Freedom of information! An informed society is a free society and one that is more likely to be at PEACE. Thank your for the open discussion. | |||
| Peace] 19:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == In brief response to Jesselps comments == | |||
| : Just for the record, the USA Secret Service has the BK's down for laundering money and smuggling drugs. Actually, I think the drug allegation is erroneous but due to certain members attempting to smuggle drugs via the centres. No exactly the fault of the organisation. | |||
| : Yes, the BKWSU does sit in morning class being told that Destruction is coming day in day out except for Thursdays during the Avyakt Murlis. It used to be 40 years, then 50 for Destruction, then 50 to 60 ... we are now in the 70th year. | |||
| : Why does the BKWSU not publish the original unedited Sakar Murlis so that others can honestly judge what they teach and believe? | |||
| : E.g. God Shiva says ; You and the pure ones, the rest of the world are completely impure; you are the Brahmins / the top knot, the rest of the World are Shudras / Untouchables; you are the holy swans, the rest of the world vicous storks, those BK that leave Gyan are " lower than the lowest of the low "; you are enlightened, the rest of the world are ignorant; all the founders of the religions, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha must come to the BKs to learn religion, do not put pictures of Brahma Baba in the centres etc. Sound familiar? | |||
| : The article is accurate and does not need to be changed. | |||
| : As far as Prince Charles and the Vatican ... what does that mean!?!? The first " King Tampon " screwing a married woman all the way through his marriage to a virgin girl - that is very BK, the second Nazi collaborators that probably only run a close second in terms of number of victims of genocide to the Nazis . What are you talking about!?! | |||
| : The only thing it comfirms is that the BKs are playing the same game trying to climb the slippery pole of power and politics. | |||
| : ] 06:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) | |||