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Birmingham the second city redux

Hi - You removed the {{fact}} tag from tne Birmingham article - I'm curious to know whether this is to avoid potential POV (e.g. it might lead to too many references to Birmingham being second city, where it may be a contentious issue), or you don't agree that the phrases "considered by some" or "widely considered" are weasel words. - Tiswas 10:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I refer you to the same, extensive, talk page debates referenced in my edit summary. Andy Mabbett 10:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Which, in all fairness, is not refering at all, merely brushing off. I have, of course, made the effort to read the Birmingham|discussion pages. There is limited discussion with regard the use of weasel words, other than echoing that either claims are to be verified or not included, in order to avoid weasel words. You appear to have made the reversion summarily - Tiswas 11:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

1) Please read WP:AGF. 2) "You appear to have made the reversion summarily" - Yes: "without delay". Andy Mabbett 12:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Good faith is assumed by default. I'm not sure that I understand your implication`. I'm merely seeking a more reasoned response for what appeared to be a perfunctory edit - Tiswas 13:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

"I'm not sure that I understand your implication" - you accused me of "brushing you off". My edit was considered, based on the discussions to which I once again refer you. Andy Mabbett 13:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

In which case, and to avoid any ambiguity or misunderstanding, feel free to point me to the specific section (or sections). As mentioned previously, I found nothing pertinent to the attachment of a {{fact}} tag. - Tiswas 14:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Not to worry - I've found the relevant section. - Tiswas 14:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Skin complaints?

The alterations you made to the Infobox UK station template don't appear correctly with my browser (IE6) and skin (classic). I don't get any coordinates at the top, they just appear twice at the same place (see Image:WP Screenshot - Infobox Uk Station.PNG). If I switch to monobook, however, it works. I've cleared my cache and purged the page, without success. I've recently added the code to my standard.css (the classic equivalent of monobook.css) to make co-ordiantes appear as d-m-s - could this have something to do with it? Any help or suggestions you could offer would be appreciated. – Tivedshambo (talk) 15:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It does look to me like either a cache issue, or mis-applied CSS changes. Try reverting your CSS changes, then doing them again, from scratch. If that doesn't fix it, please replot it on the {{coord}} talk page. Andy Mabbett 15:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll ask for that to be fixed. Andy Mabbett 16:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:Main coordinates templates

The template has been unprotected by another sysop via RFPP, so now you and Docu can edit it on equal footing and I can go on to other things. The goal is to encourage everyone to compromise, not to enable an edit war, so please try to find a compromise everyone is willing to accept. CMummert 20:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd be happy to compromise; but it's difficult, when the other person won't even say why they're reverting edits or what they have against them. Andy Mabbett 20:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

My hope is that now that everyone involved has the ability to edit the page, this will encourage dialogue. Good luck. CMummert · talk 23:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

hCard on Infobox musical artist

Hi, saw that you added hCard marku to the template and want to use class="fn" and class="fn org" conditionally. One way to do this would be to create a template subpage. It itself will be a template with one parameter, the background color, and based on that, it would return either "fn" or "fn org".

For example, replace
<big class="fn">{{{Name}}}</big>
with
<big class="{{Template:Infobox musical artist/hCard Class|{{{Background|}}} }}">{{{Name}}}</big>

In the sub-page, use a switch to map the colors to either "fn" or "fn org" like
{{#switch: {{{1|}}}
| solo_singer = fn</nowiki>
| non_vocal_instrumentalist = fn
| non_performing_personnel = fn org
| group_or_band = fn org
| cover_band = fn
| classical_ensemble = fn org
| temporary = fn
| {{{1|fn}}}
}}
--soum (0_o) 07:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Bad Cat!

Hi - could I ask you to comment out or remove Category:UK railway maps from User:Pigsonthewing/scratchpad5 please. It is a user page appearring in an article category (see WP:CAT#User namespace and WP:CAT#Keep cats out of the sandbox. Many thanks. – Tivedshambo (talk) 09:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not on that page. Andy Mabbett 10:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is - bottom line . I've taken the liberty of commenting it out for you - hope you don't mind! – Tivedshambo (talk) 10:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

OK - no prob. Andy Mabbett 10:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding User:Lewisskinner

Hi Andy. Whilst I note your opinion that Lewisskinner has been uncivil towards you on a number of occasions, I'd suggest that highlighting this during discussions is not the best course of action. Instead, I feel it would be better to ignore any such issues and concentrate on the matter of discussion. If you feel that Lewisskinner's behaviour continues to be inappropriate then you should of course raise this through the appropriate channels which I'm sure your familar. Regards. Adambro 11:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Horace Alexander

We seem to be the only fans around ! Very interesting biography I presume. Unfortunately do not have access to much of the material. Perhaps you have access to the Oxford DNB . Cheers. Shyamal 12:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

You've got e-mail ;-) Andy Mabbett 12:24, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you have the Duncan J Wood book ? Shyamal 01:38, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. It's a good read. Andy Mabbett 04:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I am sure it is. Unfortunately I dont think I can get my hands on it easily. Could you please check and let me know the summary of his contributions to Indian ornithology. Apparently there is a chapter on it. Thanks a ton. Shyamal 04:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, but Amazon UK have it (despite what they say, it's not a hardback); and the publishers are on-line. Andy Mabbett 17:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Reversal

Please contribute to Template_talk:Infobox_Swiss_town before reversing. -- User:Docu

Template talk:Infobox musical artist

This is to confirm that I didn't knowingly make any deletion. If I did make one in the course of editing, it was completely unintentional. --Kleinzach 00:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Untested additions to often used template

Please discuss changes first, rather that adding untested additions to templates. Such changes may negatively affect many articles.

You may use Template:Infobox_Swiss_town/Test to debug your additions. -- User:Docu

• I haven't made nay "untested" additions to templates. Andy Mabbett 10:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

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TfD nomination of Template:AVFC-infobox

Template:AVFC-infobox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Qwghlm 08:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Please don't

Your suggestion that the Comic opera and Opéra comique articles be merged is exceptionally unhelpful. Opéra comique is a specific genre of French opera and it is important not to confuse it with comic opera. As the (somewhat inadequate) article itself says: "Associated with the Paris theatre of the same name, it is, despite its name, not necessarily comic or light in nature." --Folantin 13:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

RE Coldspot

Yeah, that was a particularly tricky AfD closure - the Delete !voters had a stronger argument, but they were numerically outnumbered by Keeps, and I felt I couldn't close according to my own opinion. At the time I wasn't aware of the sockpuppetry. Unfortunately, procedure doesn't let me reverse my decision - what I would suggest is that you take it to WP:DRV, and I will add a note supporting deletion. Walton 08:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Reversals

Please participate in working out a solution at Template:Infobox Swiss town/Test or Template talk:Infobox Swiss town#Font problems. -- User:Docu

Birth and death

Hi Andy,

Just run first test on Afrika Bambaataa, birth only atm, looks OK. There are a lot of articles.... <grin> Rich Farmbrough, 19:18 5 May 2007 (GMT).

Ok I'm not happy that {{birth date}} displays a leading zero, though, see Hagigat Rzayeva. Rich Farmbrough, 20:16 5 May 2007 (GMT).

"My bad." I should suppress the zero, the template re-adds it for the ISO function. Rich Farmbrough, 20:40 5 May 2007 (GMT).

Help to work out a new version

Pigsonthewing, please contribute to Template_talk:Infobox_Swiss_town#Vcard to work out a new version. -- User:Docu

RL delayed answer

Ping here, apologies on the delay -- interesting btw! // FrankB 17:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Articles needing coordinates from May 2007

Andy, do you know how articles listed in this category are being categorised? I cannot fathom how the category is being attached to the article - presumably some sort of esoteric template-fu. Reason I ask is that I'm concerned that we should be boxing a little cleverer in categorising articles needing co-ordinates. Specifically, I've been going through the April 2007 list picking off UK locations. All well & good, but my heart sink at the thought of wading through hundreds of Indian location (I know damn all about the place) looking for UK locations which I might add a coordinate to. The - to me - sensible solution is to categorise articles needing coords by their geolocation, so giving us a list of UK locations needing coords, Indian locations needing coords, &c. As I cannot work out how the current category is being generated, I'm at a loss to further my suggestion by discussing my concerns with whoever is causing the articles to end up in the cat. Any help / pointers you can give would be much appreciated. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk)

Articles are added to that category by {{LocateMe}}, {{LocateMeLong}} and {{LocateMeText}}; and were being added by {{Infobox Indian Jurisdiction}}. I've now created Category:Articles on India needing coordinates from May 2007 et seq, for use by the latter. Andy Mabbett 07:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Excellent; thanks. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Checkuser case completed

Hi, A checkuser IP Check case you filled has been completed by a CheckUser, and archived. You can find the results for 7 days at Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/IP check/Archive. -- lucasbfr , checkuser clerk, 20:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

BT Tower

That was a genuine mistake by me, though, coincidentally, the Skyscrapernews.com link does state the number of floors as five. - Erebus555 15:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Railway Diagram Glitch?

Hi! Would you please help me by confirming a problem I think I have found with railway articles in the West Midlands area? I've noticed that in the following articles;

Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford Line

Coventry to Nuneaton Line

Leamington to Stratford Line

(There may be others)

The names of certain stations have disappeared from the diagram box. A quick look seems to lead to the insertion of the International Symbol of Access in blocking out the station names, but I'm not sure. I could remove the symbol to put the station names back but don't want to be stuck with an anti disabled label. Have a look and let me know what you think. Britmax 07:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Having just looked at these articles I see the problem is no longer there. I looked at them three or four times before asking for your help. Sorry! Britmax 07:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Andy Mabbett 19:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

FYI

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Infoboxes. Mak (talk) 20:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Hi Andy, Your suggestion posted over at the composers project page to take the general complaint with infoboxes to the larger bio project is a good one, and I am confident that active participants there will be happy to find ways to accommodate the challenges posed by composer articles. Until then, however, it is clear that many who actively edit composer articles are opposed to the use of such boxes. Surely it is preferable to let the consensus as it exists among such editors stand until a solution can be derived. When confronted with this general unhappiness, you claim that the composer project participants issue devolves to one of ownership and seem unwilling to tackle the problems of inaccuracy and absurdity of classification that were raised in the first place. This is an unhelpful response, since it does not address the issue. Surely, as a member of the bio project, you have a stake in seeing the problems of presenting accurate information resolved in a way that speaks to the overall value of what is, after all, a consensus-driven, community-built encyclopedia. Finally, look at the quality of many of the articles composers and then consider whether it might not be worth striking a more conciliatory tone with so many editors who are making a committed effort to building a comprehensive and accurate knowledge base in this area. Eusebeus 22:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

"Your suggestion posted over at the composers project page to take the general complaint with infoboxes to the larger bio project is a good one'@" - Thank you.

"I am confident that active participants there will be happy to find ways to accommodate the challenges posed by composer articles." - I'd like to hope so, but recent experience suggests otherwise.

"Until then, however, it is clear that many who actively edit composer articles are opposed to the use of such boxes. Surely it is preferable to let the consensus as it exists among such editors stand until a solution can be derived." - There is no such consensus, for many of the articles concerned. Apparent consensus amongst a relatively small "clique" in a relatively esoteric project does not trump the wider principles of WP community consensus.

"When confronted with this general unhappiness, you claim that the composer project participants issue devolves to one of ownership and seem unwilling to tackle the problems of inaccuracy and absurdity of classification that were raised in the first place. - That's a gross misrepresentation of my position - I'm one of the few, if not the only, participant in the discussion, who has attempted to do so.

"as a member of the bio project, you..." that appears not to be the only misapprehension you're labouring under.

"...have a stake in seeing the problems of presenting accurate information resolved in a way that speaks to the overall value of what is, after all, a consensus-driven, community-built encyclopedia" If you care to read what I've written, that's exactly what I've been trying to achieve. Andy Mabbett 23:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

arbcom note

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#User:Pigsonthewing Fireplace 02:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

microformats

If I copy and paste the coords from Sheffield Town Hall (your version) I get 53°22′48″N 1°28′10″W / 53.379994, -1.469446 (which was a surprise). How would one display the degrees version?

Also, given that the link to coordinates mentions 3 coords, height being the 3rd, is it possible to display height as well (eg above sea-level)? -- roundhouse 10:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

For the former, please see {{coord}}; for the latter; no. Andy Mabbett 10:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Please forgive my ignorance re templates etc. I have looked at {{coord}} and find it admirable. However Sheffield Town Hall uses {{coord}} in an indirect (and, to me, mysterious) fashion via {{Infobox Historic building}} and I am still not clear how one would display the coords in degrees in this case. -- roundhouse 11:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

To change the display in your browser (I assume that this is what you want to do), follow the instructions at Template:Coord#Display. If you need assistance in doing so, put a note on your talk page with {{helpme|how do I edit my monobook.css}} Andy Mabbett 12:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Indeed - voila. Many thanks indeed. So one advantage of microformats is that they are more flexible. -- roundhouse 12:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

You;re very welcome. The template is more flexible, and outputs a microformat. The microformat allows parsing by user-agents such as browser plug-ins and other websites (so you can, for instance, add an address to your address book, or send coordinates to a map site or GPS unit). Andy Mabbett 12:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I have now found and installed such a plug-in for firefox and indeed now have a toolbar which alerts me to microformats on a given page. We live and learn. I'll see if I can find an address to import. -- roundhouse 13:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Try Heaton Manor School. Andy Mabbett 14:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that worked - it imported with 1 click an hCard.vcf into MS outlook with name, address + fax no. Seems useful to me. Flickr is using the geo ones too: again it looks useful. -- roundhouse 15:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Plants Brook

I've written the article Plants Brook today and I copied the table from Digbeth Branch Canal to do my own features list for it. I noticed there were these microformat codes in there and I just thought that you could possible have a look to see if they've been used correctly because I have no idea how to use them or what they are (despite extensive research!). Thanks - Erebus555 14:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The hCard mark-up was fine. I have, though, rounded-up your five-figure-decimal longitudes, as your latitudes have only 4 decimal places. I'm concerned that your research proved fruitless; I'd like to improve matters. Where did you try? Was something unclear, or did you just not find what you were looking for, Did you try WP:UF and the pages linked to from there? Andy Mabbett 14:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for checking the article. I did look at the WikiProject and it was the technical aspect of it that confused me more than anything. I downloaded the Mozilla add-on, Operator, and I noticed that the button for the coordinates worked but I was confused to what the other buttons did. - Erebus555 14:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In Operator, under "options", are you using "actions" or "microformats" display style? I'll have a think about how to make the Wiki Project pages more clear. Nice article, BTW! Andy Mabbett 15:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I am using the microformats style. The options display style made the bar at the top disappear. And thanks for the compliment - I aim to please :) - Erebus555 15:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In that case, the "hCard" button will add contact details to you address book - try Heaton Manor School. hCalendar adds events to your diary or calendar; try . For other uses and examples, browse the microformats wiki. Andy Mabbett 15:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Terrific (sorry for butting in). I also found difficulties finding out what microformats are all about (one wants examples and a link to Operator + whatever works for ie) but Andy's answers above (particularly the last one, www.westmidlandbirdclub.com which has everything except favourites bookmarks) go some way towards providing insight. Must go and experiment with some html. -- roundhouse 17:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Protected area

Hi,

can you have a look at the last change you made to this template as it is now giving expression errors in the call to the coord template that you introduced when adding hcard information. Keith D 21:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. there was nothing wrong with the infobox as I left it, but some articles have a conflicting template which also uses the title bar to display coordinates, so I removed the title display from the infobox. In the long term, it should be restored, and the duplicate coordinates removed. Andy Mabbett 22:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the fix. Keith D 22:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Banned from infobox-related edits

Under your general probation, you are hereby banned from making any infobox-related edits for a period of one month. You may not add or remove infoboxes from articles and may not edit infobox templates. You may make suggestions on appropriate talk pages. This ban may be enforced by blocking (starting with 24 hours and escalating as appropriate). Thatcher131 04:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

What? This is utter bullshit! Andy Mabbett 11:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

It's about this report, and this discussion. By banning you from a topic area where you have been disruptive, rather than blocking you for disruption, you can continue to edit other areas of interest. You can ask any other admin to review my decision. Thatcher131 11:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I have not been "disruptive". Perhaps you were not aware of the history of those debates, not least Lewis Skinner's sockpuppetry and abuse; nor of the vast number of infoboxes I am in the midst of editing (as my contribution history would show you). I invite you to review your own arbitrary, unwarranted and unjustified action. Andy Mabbett 11:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

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