Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:14, 23 May 2007

23 May 2007

Crystal Gail Mangum

Crystal Gail Mangum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Another controversial WP:BLP deletion, heavily contested on the article's talk page. This article had over 30 sources (as can be verified by the Google cache (), and is a central figure in the 2006 Duke University lacrosse team scandal. Although her name was confidential during much of the scandal, it has already been published by reliable media sources, including Fox News. Although there were some issues with the article's overall tone, these could have been handled by a number of methods short of deletion. It could have been handled by stubbing the article (and protecting it for a while, if necessary) so that changes could be discussed first on talk and vetted for potential BLP issues. It could have been handled by redirecting to a section in the main scandal article and then protecting that redirect (indeed, this was done briefly today, and I have no idea why it didn't remain that way). Deletion and salting without any discussion was clearly inappropriate. A brief perusal of Google demonstrates the subject's notability, and even if the existing article was problematic, salting is unjustified unless no good article could possibly be written (or redirect placed) at that title. That clearly is not the case here. Also, a previous AFD resulted in Keep. *** Crotalus *** 04:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Uh, wow. Undelete and fix. There was a good version to go back to at one point, even if that ends up being the one kept at AfD a year ago. If you want it deleted, AfD's down the hall. --badlydrawnjeff talk 04:33, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete Heavily covered by the media, clearly notable, this should've been sent to AFD. — MichaelLinnear 04:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete. Whether we like it or not, there are sources that exist to write about her. I don't see any urgent BLP concerns that warrant deletion. --- RockMFR 04:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Although, it obviously should be left up to editorial judgment (read: not speedy deletion) whether to merge/redirect to the main article. The sort of details in the article are the kind that nobody will care about in 5 years (or now, for that matter). --- RockMFR 04:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Unsalt, redirect and protect. - Her name is in the first sentence of 2006 Duke University lacrosse team scandal, for crying out loud. AfD is fine too. ˉˉ╦╩ 04:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete - *** Crotalus ***, Thank You. I am surprised by the heavy hand wielded by two editors who had not (to the best of my knowledge) been interested or edited at the two articles before today. I uploaded an appropriate image of the false accuser (Crystal Gail Mangum) a couple times, which was deleted each time with no record of who did the deletion or why. This move does not fit in with WP policy, AFAIK. Did those two editors act in good faith, or should they be called on the carpet for their actions? Duke53 | 04:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• The image was apparently deleted for lack of a fair use rationale. The article was deleted for reasons that are unclear to me; the existing state of the article had some problems, but these could have been handled by one of the two other methods I described above. A full deletion and salting was not appropriate. *** Crotalus *** 04:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• There was discussion and a defense of the fair use rationale of this same exact image within the last two weeks and it was decided then to keep the image. What has changed since then? Duke53 | 05:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Does she really need her own article? No, not really, but that's an issue for AFD. Since her name has already been made public by the media, that's not an issue for us, so overturn and list at AFD. Considering that I have been edit conflicted by four people wanting this overturned, we may even want to consider a speedy close as a clearly out of process deletion. --BigDT 04:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• David Gerard had it as a protected redirect, which I think was about right. It should be unsalted and replaced by a protected redirect. The article about the affair has all the relevant information, and the article about the person had become an attack piece. Deleting under biographies of living persons was correct in this case. The history must not be undeleted. --Tony Sidaway 04:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
  • As stated in the nomination, I have no objection to either redirecting to a section of the main scandal article, or deleting the history and protecting a new stub that can then be further discussed on talk with a careful eye to BLP issues. But having a redlink there is clearly wrong. *** Crotalus *** 04:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

    There may be an argument for a protected redlink. I'd like to hear why it was deleted. I was the person who made the redirect, which I thought was about right. --Tony Sidaway 04:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Undelete and protect. Review it for tone, and DISCUSS changes. Remember that 'balanced' does not mean 'say one good thing for every bad thing'--it means that the article shouldn't be slanted--at least that's what people editing other articles seem to think. Marieblasdell 04:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete. I don't even need to see the article - if it survives an AfD, speedy deletion is never justified'. BLP issues may require a revert back a long time, but not a speedy. Especially since 30 sources is unquestionably not a violation. If people wish to use BLP to mean "any article which could cause any concievable harm to anyone ever", then they either need a consensus to do that, or they need a statement from someone who can dictate policy. Which includes nobody here. -Amarkov moo! 04:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Actually the article was pretty rank. --Tony Sidaway 04:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  And...? -Amarkov moo! 04:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  No And. No But, either. It was vile. --Tony Sidaway 05:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Obviously people did not agree with that. I do not understand why the concept that community discussion overrules vague claims of badness is so hard to grasp. -Amarkov moo! 05:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Community discussions do not overrule Biography of living persons. No vague claims, either. It was vile, an attack piece. --Tony Sidaway 05:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  If the community discussion arrives at the decision that it does not violate BLP, there is no issue of overruling to consider. You realize that your arguments are beginning to look like "The community can't overrule my decisions on if an article violates policy"? -Amarkov moo! 05:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Community discussion alone does not determine whether an article violates Biography of living persons. --Tony Sidaway 05:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Undelete - the problems can be fixed. 24.252.101.35 05:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  ::"Actually the article was pretty rank". And ..., the method used to bury it was equally as 'rank'. Duke53 | 05:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Not really. Routine delete and salt. The damage to persons caused by such attack articles merits this. --Tony Sidaway 05:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  I'm not sure you're aware of the height of interest in this story, Tony. I don't know how much of it got across the pond, but there is really no way that a Misplaced Pages entry could do any harm in this case - she's famously notorious, without question. --badlydrawnjeff talk 05:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  And the media fallout is still continuing to this day. — MichaelLinnear 05:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Heightened public interest does not justify the construction of attack articles about private individuals. --Tony Sidaway 05:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  Is this sort of behavior really routine? If so, what's the point of anyone working on Misplaced Pages in good faith? Marieblasdell 05:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  It's easy to have your work remain on Misplaced Pages. Just don't write attack pieces. --Tony Sidaway 05:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Connections Academy

Connections Academy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

The page was deleted earlier today for being a spam article, however the article did not read as an advertisement, but an a description of what the school was. I believe some of the links were not neccessary, hwoever I feel deletion of the article was not warranted. Wildthing61476 01:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn. The article wasn't written particularly well, but it wasn't so much an advertisement that deletion was justified. -Amarkov moo! 04:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Enchanted Forest Water Safari

Enchanted Forest Water Safari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Unnecessary deletion I created this page and found it deleted; I did not enter enough information initially, so I went back and found non-partisan sources and generated detailed information about the topic. I found that the page had been repeatedly deleted by user Mhking, who stated that I did not cite third-party sources. Although my page did cite third-party sources, I cited to Mhking other pages (such as Six Flags Theme Park) that do not cite sources, but were warned rather than deleted. I am from central new york and have no vested interest in Enchanted Forest, but wish to participate in Misplaced Pages in a meaningful manner. I would like the opportunity to finish the page and provide useful information about this and other topics. Thank you for your time. Jjm10 01:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Comment why not just re-create the article? -N 01:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Response He has tried to re-create and it sources. It was suggested that he come to request deletion review. Discussion here Uncle uncle uncle 04:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Canadian Royal Family

Canadian Royal Family (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD|AFD2)

Sourced, verifiable and free content not repeated elsewhere completely lost due to redirect. Note: the article underwent a second AfD in May, 2007; article contents were different to when first AfD conducted. G2bambino 00:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Undelete, redirect, protect Normally I'd be pointing out that redirections done right aren't a DRV issue. However a merge has taken place in the past (see the logs), so we need to preserve history under the GFDL. And history was deleted following AFD2. So a clear mistake has been made, and should be fixed. Redirect is the blazingly obvious consensus of the second AFD discussion. Normally I'd say that merging and redirecting is an editorial issue, subject to consensus on the target article's talk page. However, I see in the deleted history the beginnings of an edit war over where the redirection should go. So the redirect should be protected until such time as a consensus to change it is forthcoming. GRBerry 01:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete, redirect the edit history needs to be preserved, that is important, imo. Brian | (Talk) 01:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete all the history (including that from the first AfD, keep redirect and protect. -N 01:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Undelete the history, do not protect the redirect. Protection isn't warranted at this stage. --badlydrawnjeff talk 04:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC)