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Revision as of 21:05, 27 May 2007

Gracenotes

Voice your opinion (154/53/5); Scheduled to end 20:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Gracenotes (talk · contribs) - I am honoured at being able to nominate Gracenotes for adminship. Since he joined in September 2005, he has gained over 11,000 edits, although he only really became active in October 2006. His edits are firmly spread across a wide range of namspaces, with nearly 1,500 of those being in wikipedia space. Some may argue Gracenotes is the parser king with his excellent template work, the mop would help perfect all those protected templates. His MediaWiki talk space edits show he has a firm understanding of how wikipedia works (how many people can say they actually have any MediaWiki space edits?!). He is active at the help desk showing that he assumes good faith and steps in to help all those users that have problems. He's got very good contributions to XfD's and I think Grace's home will be closing those neglected TfD's. His mainspace contributions show that he has a firm understands of our inclusion criteria/guidlines and would be quite capable of enforcing policy when required. On top of all that - he's a nice guy! I really hope you can help me give Gracenotes the mop - he will be more than an asset to the administration. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Co-nom by Snowolf: Nothing unusual, just I wanted to nominate Gracenotes but Ryan did it before me ;-). As always, I think that we can trust this user with a couple of extra buttons ;-)Good luck! «Snowolf » 22:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Co-nom by Nishkid64 (talk · contribs): It was just in fact a few days ago that I asked why Gracenotes did not want to nominated for adminship. I mean, from what I saw, he was better qualified than most of our admins were when they went up for adminship. As Ryan stated, Gracenotes has a thorough knowledge of the inner workings of the Misplaced Pages interface, and he definitely can be an asset in editing MediaWiki pages. As for admin chores, one can easily see that Gracenotes will be very helpful at closing TfDs, granting/denying RFPP requests and handling AIV requests. Gracenotes has the experience that we look for in our candidates, and he surely demonstrates a need for the tools. Nishkid64 (talk) 21:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

• I accept. Gracenotes § 20:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. You may wish to answer the following optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?

A: I prefigure that most of my admin work will be maintenance: for example, deleting broken redirects and temporary user pages, looking for high-risk templates that need protection or semi-protection, reviewing Special:Protectedpages for pages for which unprotection is overdue, several other janitorial tasks, and essentially whatever comes my way. I plan on going through CAT:CSD, and helping fellow Prometheuses with the task of clearing it out. :) Fulfilling or declining protected edit requests, seeing if administrator intervention against vandalism is needed, and responding to requests for page protection are things I'd be excited to do. I also plan on continuing my non-admin wikignoming, template work, et cetera. Gracenotes §

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: My general attitude regarding contributing to Misplaced Pages is helping where assistance or improvement is needed, and then looking for more places to help when I'm done or when I feel that other editors can handle the problem without me. My contributions to mainspace are mostly wikignomish in nature, but I am nonetheless proud of them. I am particularly fond of the early development of 2007 Fort Dix attack plot (diff, diff), wikifying, and expanding several articles. I'm also a copyeditor: for example, see Zaireeka, Maine Summer Youth Music, Red rain in Kerala, Einstein-de Haas effect, just to mention a few. I also work to ensure compliance, trying to keep Misplaced Pages connected with other WMF projects, and formatting refs. All of this is pretty minor, but there's a lot of it, and I feel as though I've overall made Misplaced Pages more useful and complete as an encyclopedia.

Another area of my contribution is the template namespace. I thoroughly enjoy trying to get templates to work with ParserFunctions: for example, {{Template shortcut}} {{User warning set}}, {{Infobox World Series}} (most recently), and {{Infobox School}}, among others. More importantly, I am a member of the user warning project, where I've had the opportunity to create, modify, and otherwise improve the templates that Misplaced Pages's vandal-fighters use every day.

And last but not least, I help clean up vandalism. Certainly not least: I believe that, by volume, I have more vandal reversions and user warnings than any other sort of edit. Maintaining the integrity of our articles is, I believe, very important (although less important than writing them), both for quality-related and legal reasons. I've written a couple of scripts that I've used to (well, I hope I've used them to) improve Misplaced Pages, including this one for reverting vandalism. Gracenotes §

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: Most of my work is improvement, and I tend to dislike wikipolitics, so, as the Scottish RFA puts it, I don't often "feel that ither uisers hae caused ye pain". I do remember my first conflict, over my 6th edit (thankfully not indicative of future interactions with editors); a record of the discussion can be found at Talk:Newton#More Newton Definition Things. I do attend TFD debates often, and can get into disputes about whether templates should be kept or not. However, both at TFD and in general, I try to keep discussion logical and based upon improving content and reaching consensus (preferably, though, the consensus I want :]), not on other users' faults or strengths. I usually only become wikistressed by observing wonkery, a subjective phenomenon. However, I do not see that often, and have neither reason nor desire to recall such actions or hold grudges against those that did them. Gracenotes §

4 (additional question from SlimVirgin):

Hi GN, I seem to recall your posting something that implied you felt it was okay to link to attack sites, but I may be misremembering. Can you outline your position on that issue, please? SlimVirgin 00:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

A: Certainly. I suppose you mean attack sites as those in which personal attacks are made against Wikipedians, without the intent of improving Misplaced Pages.

I came to view the proposed WP:BADSITES as an extension of our policy on No Personal Attacks, as several others did. Personal attacks are restricted on Misplaced Pages, but not on other websites, where nonconstructive criticism has no consequences. (This can be compared to Misplaced Pages, where action can be taken upon personal attacks.) If posting a link to an attack site is intended, in any way, to be a personal attack in itself, then Wikipedians may wish to rephrase or remove their comments. If the issue brought up by the attack site is valid, surely Wikipedians can discuss it on-wiki.

In the discussion at WT:BADSITES, I thought it unhelpful for editors to either add or remove links merely to make a point; I was also frustrated by the enforcing of a proposed policy for cases without a clear personal attack.

To delineate, and to address some of the concerns in your question, I oppose removing all links to all such sites in all contexts, especially if such removals interfere with the good faith development of Misplaced Pages (if rules make you nervous or depressed...) Granted, not all additions of links to attack sites happen in good faith. Both adding and removing links should be justified by logic, and not by enforcement merely for the sake of enforcement (something I see way too much in real life). Temperance, rather than prohibition, is the best route. (There has not been an amendment enforcing morality since the 18th, and for good reason.)

To conclude, it is an interesting fact that (to my knowledge) MeatballWiki has no articles on dealing with external sites of criticism. Wikis are meant to be their own self-sufficient world, taking care of their own problems, not meant to be in the real world. However, Misplaced Pages no longer has that option: the recognition of this is helpful in dealing with such sites. Now, if these comments seem without focus, it is because the issue has many, many facets. Hopefully I've explained my views on the facets you're interested in. Gracenotes §

4a (clarifying question from Geogre:

For the record, I'm not thrilled with those links being part of WP:NPA, but your answer above conjured a situation where links to attacking/non-encyclopedic sites were made in good faith. Can you think of an example where such an addition has been made, or can you describe a hypothetical where such a link could be made in a way that it adds to encyclopedic coverage? I have not followed all the debates on the subject, and I would imagine some of the voters have not, either, so an example would really help. Geogre 11:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I hope Geogre won't mind if I jump in here. Any example should be either hypothetical or given without details that would violate someone's privacy. My stalker's website, with his sexual fantasies about me, his references to parts of my body, his speculation about my menstrual cycle, and various other personal (including contact) details for me and members of my family (some accurate, some not) was taken down after a year of severe real-life stalking in which people other than myself got (badly) hurt, and after the stalker was arrested by police. But to use my case as a hypothetical one, if that site were still up (and yes, it did have some pages that weren't of a stalking nature), it would be completely inappropriate to post a diff here of someone linking to it, in order to discuss when links might be appropriate or inappropriate, as that would simply be a continuation of the violation of me. We had an RfA a few months ago in which the candidate repeatedly named a website so that voters could find it and see if he had been right to link to it previously, as he was getting oppose votes as a result of his previous linking to it. The site that he was naming gave the real name (or what may be the real name) of a Wikipedian who was trying to remain anonymous (and had various attacks on Wikipedians), and the RfA had to be deleted and partially restored. Musical Linguist 11:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Musical Linguist, with all due respect, I don't know if your comment here belongs underneath of a question intended for an RfA candidate. Moreover, the ordeal you went through sounds horrific, but note that I have learned more about your incident from you than any other source on the internet. daveh4h 18:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Dave, I don't think Musical Linguist's concern is that you shouldn't find out what happened to her; her concern was simply that it happened. The point is that editors who have been stalked and harassed need to know that admins will protect victims of that kind of behavior, and not increase the readership of the attackers' websites by linking to them. SlimVirgin 19:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Quite right, SlimVirgin. Dave, I assure you I'm capable of thinking this through. For over a year, I never posted publicly about this, partly because I knew that people could become curious and start looking for my stalker's site, but mainly because everything I posted was being tracked, and I would be likely to get a gloating, sexually sadistic e-mail about my post, with a copy to my superior, and perhaps even a copy to the media. After more than a year, and knowing that the man has been arrested (though not over his harassment of me), I have started speaking out, mainly because I don't want other people to go through what I went through. And I will say that the greatest distress caused to me by Wikipedians other than this sexual predator came from administrators (a very, very small number) who were callous and unsympathetic, and who didn't think his posts should be reverted or that pages should be semi-protected to prevent him posting about me. Musical Linguist 07:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

A: Geogre, the example that comes to mind is where encyclopedic coverage is needed. If, through a bored reporter or two, Encyclopedia Dramatica became notable enough for an article (with reliable sources), we'll make one. It is our custom to link to websites in the infobox. I'm interested in building an encyclopedia, and think that we should exercise caution in censoring these links out of mainspace (an activity some have suggested below).

To digress, I do believe strongly in the right to anonymity: it is a right that everyone should have (and I am grieved that Musical Linguist lost it), and it is one that should not be defaced by abuse thereof. As Milan Kundera said, "curtain-rippers are criminals" (although there are counter-examples, e.g. Nixon). Thus, instead of keeping all links, sensitivity should be applied. Completely removing all such links can lend itself to abuse in enforcement. (The appropriateness of Kelly's Martin blog is how much you like Kelly Martin; the concept of an "attack site" can be a means to an end.)

Kelly Martin criticizes; she doesn't defame, she doesn't out people, she doesn't stalk them or encourage others to do so. There's no comparison. SlimVirgin 01:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The point that I was proving is that enforcing WP:BADSITES can be a matter of subjectivity, depending on the person enforcing it. Gracenotes §

Actually, yes she does, if we use the definition of defame as to harm the reputation of someone through false statements, which she does do off-wiki. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages did not have to face this years ago. Though I adhere to it, the WikiWay is dying, and in this brave new world, no one found the time to mourn for it. I am not the type that protects Wikipedians by removing links to attack sites; if needed, others may do that. I protect Wikipedians by advocating them if I believe they need help; I support Wikipedians by sharing with them knowledge of MediaWiki and Misplaced Pages policies; I respect Wikipedians in argument. But ask me to censor in murky situations, and I may not be able to help you. Not everyone can be both a lover and a fighter: thankfully, the admin work I plan on doing does not involve much of the latter. Gracenotes §

4b Followup from Will Beback

I see you call the removal of links to attack sites "censorship". How would you characterize the removal of IRC logs? There's no Meatball page prohibiting their posting. How are they different? ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:57, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the removal of links can't not be censorship. Censoring isn't always bad: it's merely removing content that is deemed morally objectionable, just as the ancient Roman censors did. Removing links to pages wherein stalkers describe their sexual fantasies about a victim, and oversighting the edits, is more than fine, because that sort of behavior is morally appalling (and, though I am not sure, possibly illegal).

The posting of logs has less to do with moral problems. May I take this quote from Milan Kundera? "But one day in 1970 or 1971, with the intent to discredit Prochazka, the police began to broadcast these conversations as a radio serial." Here, the conversation refers to private conversation between Prochazka and a friend during the Prague String. Kundera does on to note that in private, "a person says all sorts of things, , makes a companion laugh by shocking him with outrageous talk, floats heretical ideas he'd never admit in public, and so forth." Unlike Misplaced Pages, IRC is not meant to be an Akashic record: while discussion often does not get as dirty as Kundera describes, people often spout their feelings about an issue into an IRC channel, realizing "that we act different in private than in public is everyone's most conspicuous experience." Now, in Misplaced Pages IRC channels specifically, people often repeat or delineate exactly how they feel about issues on-wiki. Just to make sure that we aren't invading any traces of this social contract, however, it seems to be a courtesy to ask someone if they want to release IRC conversation into some sort of Akashic record, like Misplaced Pages. Licensing under GFDL is irrevocable, and only the author should be able to do that. Gracenotes §

Thanks for your reply. The concept of Akashic record appears a bit too esoteric to be relevant here. Getting back to the heart of the matter, would you object to links to IRC logs posted elsewhere? ·:·Will Beback ·:· 01:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you're probably right about the Akashic record; I only meant to draw a comparison (very vaguely related to the WikiNow|WikiNow, ignore the meatball link!). Linking to logs should be discouraged, as they contain data that can easily be forged, and also provide a means to circumvent the "social contract" mentioned above. To continue the the thoughts of Kundera, "Thus only gradually did people realize (though their rage was all the greater) that the real scandal was not Prochazka's daring talk but the rape of his life". Such logs, and links to them, should be regarded with sensitivity. Links to logs that give away the IP addresses of Wikipedians should be avoided, because such is against our privacy policy. But, for example, this should be fine. Overall, it's a complex issue, and removings should be handled on a case-by-case basis; if you want something specific, please ask it. Gracenotes § 02:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

5 (additional question from SlimVirgin):

Sorry if this has been answered already, GN, but can you explain why you redirected your user page to Gurch's a couple of weeks ago? SlimVirgin 01:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

A It's an inside joke; when I accidentally got a message he was supposed to receive, we reverted it. Gracenotes §

Can you say more about what you mean? It looks a bit odd, and I don't know what "we reverted it" means. SlimVirgin 05:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

How is it "odd"? Gracenotes §

What does "we reverted it" mean? SlimVirgin 16:40, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Communicating over IRC, Gurch and I decided it wasn't the best idea after this. The redirects were certainly not meant to be permanent. As an admin, accountable for blocks and needed for similar communication, such a redirect would be unacceptable. But I wasn't an admin. Gracenotes § 18:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Optional question from Simply south

6 Of your articles and contributions to Misplaced Pages, are there any of which you are not proud of? Simply south 23:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

A If by "not proud" you mean ashamed, I don't feel ashamed that often. Most of my contributions are committed without review or comment by fellow editors, as a wikignome, and I do what I feel is needed or desirable for improving or maintaining Misplaced Pages, according to policy, guidelines, and encyclopedic value.

Now, one thing that pains me somewhat is the article Flat Earth. It's a good article, and I tried to improve it by gathering references. I looked for sources on the internet, took out books from the library. I wanted to essentially do a complete rewrite. However, I never quite got to do it, since I found myself unable to reconcile the good content that was/is there with my ideal for how the article could be. I like working with small or faulty articles and building/improving them—maintaining large good articles is somewhat of a weak point for me.

Of course, I have made stupid mistakes here and there, none of which I feel particularly proud: for example, this :) Common sense must have escaped me. From that, I learned to check the page history when tagging an article for speedy deletion, and to refer to what I know in making decisions. If I don't feel proud of an edit, there's usually a reason why, and usually I can learn from it. Gracenotes §

7 (from SlimVirgin)

Could you say something, please, about your bot use? I can see that you're using one, and it's obvious from your edit count (nearly 5,000 edits in May alone), but I always thought bots had to be registered as separate accounts, or else had to be used quite slowly. Yours seems to make edits very fast, yet it doesn't have its own account. SlimVirgin 05:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

A: Contrary to your assumption, I have approved every single edit that I have ever made. The only major scripts that I have used are for anti-vandalism and tagging redirects. As for cleaning up vandalism, that can be a necessary evil: surely you don't expect me to leave vandalism once I find it! As for tagging redirects, all of the edits were manually initiated, and I reviewed the content of each page before making the edit. If no one remarked anything about it until you, that's a good indication that I didn't "flood" recent changes. On a technical note, it may also ease your mind that a developer has commented, "I would have no problem with edit rates on the order of 100 per minute" for scripts that check lag, as mine did. Hardly all of my edits are script-assisted: my edit count is mostly a result of hard work and long hours :) Gracenotes §

I'm not talking about fighting vandalism, but about very low-priority edits such as these. These artifically inflate your edit count, so can you say why you're not using a separate account for them? Also, are you saying you sat for five hours doing nothing but hit a button hundreds of times to make these changes — and doesn't this kind of editing affect server speed for other users, which is in part why bot approval is needed? SlimVirgin 16:40, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Artificially inflate my edit count? Why, is my edit count remotely useful even if I don't inflate it?

Now, The edits may have been "trivial", but if I didn't tag them, who would do it? Shall we be satisfied to have an incomplete category when it could be comprehensive? I saw a neglected job to do, boldly completed it with no server problems; no one complained, someone complimented me, so I moved on. That's how Misplaced Pages works. Gracenotes § 18:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

You didn't answer the question. Are you saying you sat there for five hours doing nothing but press a button hundreds of times?

As for edit count, you've made 5,700 edits to the encyclopedia, and most of your edits were made this month. If thousands of these were bot or bot-like edits, that's clearly relevant. The number of talk page edits is illustrative: only 343 to article talk, but 5,700 to articles? SlimVirgin 19:21, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I fixed less than 2335 redirects; this means that a more than 3428 of my mainspace have been vandal reversion, article improvement, or an insignificant amount of mistakes (mentioned in Q6). As a wikignome, I do not often participate in talk page discussions (although the number of discussions is not trivial): just fix it and go. No use wasting time discussing the fixing of typos.

Yes, I did sit there for some time (with breaks, of course) and, going through dozens of pages of api.php and a simple script, tag with {{r from shortcut}} every redirect that did not have the template. I gave consideration to every edit. None of my contributions are bot edits, and I have spend hours crafting some of the semi-automated scripts that I've used. Gracenotes § 19:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

8 (from Jakew)

I understand that you 'don't often "feel that ither uisers hae caused ye pain"', but I wonder whether you could discuss "interesting" interactions which you've had with with other editors? I'd be particularly interested in situations in which you've found it necessary to refer to and discuss the application of Misplaced Pages policy. Diffs would be greatly appreciated! Jakew 20:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

A: The most recent debate that comes to mind is Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/American Airlines destinations (discussing consensus, scope). I contended that the pages were out of the scope of Misplaced Pages: similar to what I did here, except the latter was not controversial. I felt that certain image templates inhibited free content. This was essentially my thesis. In this debate, I tried to apply some of our behavioral policies (vote). A number of editors (including myself) expressed discontent about the template, so when the debate ended as no consensus, I tried to take everyone's concerns into consideration. A slow content war followed after that, which I was not involved in.

At this TFD, I made several arguments based both on censorship and utility. That debate was not that heated, however. This was an interesting conversation about NPOV and utility. I was also somewhat involved in the AACS key controversy controversy. For example, this comment about the encyclopedic value of the decimal respresentation. Also see Talk:Criticism of Misplaced Pages#Essjay Issue for an interaction with a Misplaced Pages outsider about Essjay. If you need more, I'd be glad to provide it. Gracenotes § 22:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Optional question from LessHeard vanU

9 Are you aware that not responding to specific requests is sometimes a means of not escalating situations, and that adminship sometimes requires only stating policy and then proceding on that basis? Are you able to withdraw from a discussion, once you have exhausted all options, and allow matters to then progress to a conclusion (within application of appropriate policy)? LessHeard vanU 23:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

A: I'll answer your question as a whole, rather than in parts. I accepted the nomination for adminship because I wanted to help clear some of backlogs that most contributors wouldn't give a second thought to. Some take for granted what goes into keeping our site organized. As a sign of good faith, I will make myself less visible here. I'm weary of trying to prove my integrity, and it's having the opposite effect (due, in part, to some creative assumptions). I always thought that the ideal RFA would be an honest conversation, lacking disingenuous politics, between the candidate and the masses. Adieu. Gracenotes § 01:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The phrase "ideal RfA" is an oxymoron – Gurch 02:11, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Question from Ssbohio

10 I'm impressed with your dedication to making the small but crucial improvements which often are overlooked in building this project. On that basis, having admin powers would be of clear benefit to the project. That said, I'm concerned about situations where you might become narrowly focused. Such focus is admirable when reverting vandalism or tagging articles, but not so much when hammering out consensus, as in this MfD (here & here). None of this is intended to detract from the thousands of edits you've made which are, in sum, a great contribution. Specifically, if (as appears to me) a small (even insignificant) matter in userspace can't be let go, I would have modest concern over what would happen once you get the extra buttons. As relates to my concerns, how do you feel about administrators being open to recall? Would you commit to being recallable? Why or why not? --Ssbohio 12:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

A: Although sometimes I disagree with this notion, Wikipedians should follow consensus, not policy. This is hard for me in AFD debates, when people vote to keep or delete an article against guidelines to the contrary. (For example, there is a minor character in a fictional work, and there appears to be no reason to not merge). But, consensus is consensus. In the MFD, the nomination was a malformed WP:POINT: the better solution, perhaps, would have been to remove the orange bar and leave the page be. However, I decided that the page may as well go, partially in response to the nominator (maybe not the best idea).

If others viewing this RFA would feel reassured by it (although I'm more of the bold-discuss-revert type than bold-revert-discuss, and have no history of edit warring that I can recall), I could add myself to the category of admins open to recall. However, I would prefer that other editors in conflict with me seek other means of dispute resolution first. Gracenotes §

Optional question from Blackjack48 (talk · contribs)

11. After a recent MfD, many Wikipedians are debating the use of spoiler warnings in articles about books, movies, and stories. Where do you stand on this issue and do you use spoiler templates when reading these types of articles? Thank you. Blackjack48  ♠ ♣ 23:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

A: I'm not as familiar with this debate as I'd like to be, given that it's one of the Big Things that the Misplaced Pages community is currently discussing. If you require me to form an opinion, I weakly oppose the inclusion of spoiler templates. They strike me as unencyclopedic, in that Misplaced Pages, as an encyclopedia, should be expected to be a compendium of human knowledge, including "spoiling" content. Usability is an important issue, but (to draw a comparison) Sparknotes does not have spoiler warnings, as far as I am aware. People go to Sparknotes because they want an objective, straight-forward summary of a book. I imagine that people go to Misplaced Pages for the same thing. Once they get to the "plot" of an article, there should be no reason why they wouldn't expect to understand the full plot. The same logic applies for articles about a character.

I am also sympathetic towards the position that spoiler templates should only be included only if there is a really key plot twist, but only a compromise, if absolutely no other consensus on the issue can be reached. (Once again, I am unfamiliar with the issue; if I have assumed something incorrectly, please correct me.) Gracenotes §

Optional question from Clayoquot (talk · contribs)

12. Under what circumstances would you unblock a user who had been blocked by another administrator? Kla'quot 00:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

A: The only circumstance under which I would unblock a user who had been blocked by another administrator is if I disagreed with the block. But I am quite aware that wheel warring is an extremely nonconstructive activity, and would try to discuss the issue with the blocking admin first. If the blocking admin were away, or if I felt that I needed community input on the matter, I would make a post to the admin's incident noticeboard. I would likely overturn a block without asking the blocking admin if it were maintenance (that is, removing an autoblock on a widely shared IP and reinstating it as a regular block), or if the admin blocking had gone crazy (that is, blocked Jimbo, etc.) I would contact the blocking admin in other cases: for example, I might disagree with a username block, or I might note that the admin was involved in a content dispute with the blocked user prior to blocking, etc. Gracenotes § 18:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Optional question from Mantanmoreland (talk · contribs)

13. Concerns have been raised about your position on "attack sites" such as Misplaced Pages Review, which you have described as a "mixed bag" before withdrawing the remark as "hasty." You joined Misplaced Pages Review in March and posted there through May. I was wondering if you could share with us why you post there, what you feel your bring to the table at that site and how you feel your Misplaced Pages Review posting and membership enhances your qualifications as an administrator of Misplaced Pages. Do you believe other Wikipedians should join Misplaced Pages Review, as you have, and, if so, why?--Mantanmoreland 15:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Can I just point out something here raised on the talk page also – should Gracenotes choose to answer, the uninvolved voter cannot draw much conclusion from this without actually seeing the posts in question. This is exactly the sort of situation in which a link to a page on an "attack site" would not be a personal attack at all, but actually helpful in determining whether to trust the candidate – Gurch 20:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

• See Gracenotes's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.
• Links for Gracenotes: Gracenotes (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• This user is not Grace Note (talk · contribs).
• Statement by candidate. Let me make a clarification here, if I may. There has been a lot of discussion about websites critical of Misplaced Pages. I feel as though my comments have been misinterpreted; others may believe I have deepened the wounds they have suffered.
• Now, you may notice that sometimes admins can fit vaguely into groups. There are image admins, who deal with advocating free images and keeping non-free ones to a minimum. There are anti-vandalism admins, who could block, revert, and semiprotect all day long if they wanted to. There are wikipoliticking admins, who like to congregate around controversial issues. There are article admins, who improve content and use their tools to protect and then start discussion in disuptes.
• While I dislike partial adminship, let me say that I plan on being a template admin. One who you'll rarely see doing what he's doing. One who improves, protects, unprotects, and deletes templates, among other menial tasks. I do not labor so that I can one day win a cabal of users who follow me around and support me. I do not pour dozens and dozens of hours of my life into this project so that I can place a collection of glorified hunks of digital metal on my user page. Ladies and Gentlemen, I am here to maintain an encyclopedia, and to help keep what I can running smoothly. I can do this with or without adminship. For all else, I hope that my contributions stand for themselves. Thank you, Gracenotes § 01:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Please keep criticism constructive and polite. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Gracenotes before commenting.

Discussion

• From what I read Gracenotes does not support using external sites to attack others. So that issue looks to be moot to me. Contribs look good, check. No behavior problems that are of any significance, check. I can't find any reason not to give the mop, and by reading the comments Gracenotes gave I am confident he will enforce our policy on no personal attacks, should it be done on here directly or on another site and linked to. —— Eagle101 07:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
• Gracenotes has provided an answer clarifying the oft-misinterpreted Q4 answer here: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship/Gracenotes#Ambiguity_of_language. -- nae'blis 20:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
• I think the proper place for spin of the kind attempted above is on the discussion page. It's really unseemly here. Please move it to Talk. Thank you. Perhaps Gracenotes or one of the other supporters of this RfA could do the honors.--Mantanmoreland 22:40, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
  • If the moral panic below can get 30k, I'm confident you can begrudge me 3 lines. Thanks. -- nae'blis 22:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
    • OK, well since you want to move the discussion from Talk to the top of this section, I'll play along. In response to Eagle101 and yourself, no the "clarification" issued by Gracenotes did absolutely nothing to resolve the concerns of this opponent and the others who have responded to you.--Mantanmoreland 23:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
      • He may not have provided the answer you wanted, but he did clarify a grammatical point with considerable bearing on the controversy in question.--G-Dett 23:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
        • I see no change in position or "clarification" from his answer. His entire approach to the "attack sites" issue has been cold, clinical, detached from reality and totally lacking in empathy. Yes, you are correct, that is not the kind of response that I want to hear from a potential administrator.--Mantanmoreland 23:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
          • Do you not know what "clarification" means? It means that some people didn't know what his position was, so now he's tried to let people know what it is. "Clarification" doesn't mean, "saying what Mantanmoreland wants to hear". Now, can you please take this discussion to the talk page, as nae'blis tried to do? Bladestorm 23:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
          • As far as I can tell, Gracenotes has never linked to an "attack" site. You have. That makes it a little hard to take you seriously when you say he's "detached from reality and totally lacking in empathy." Frise 00:14, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
            • That strikes me as distinctly unfair, Frise, as Mantanmoreland has stated that he believes his doing so was a mistake. JavaTenor 00:20, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
              • Hmm. I'll yield to your judgement in this case. Frise 00:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
              • Even if he changed his mind about it later, it would seem that his own use of such a link (to give evidence of the character of somebody up for RfA through showing their own off-site words) is a case in point to how it's in some cases perfectly reasonable for a good-faith editor to find there to be a sensible reason to link to such sites... after all, he did it himself. *Dan T.* 00:30, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
                • I'm glad you feel that every mistake I make should have the force of Misplaced Pages policy, and should be recounted ad nauseum and used as precedent. Not even the Gods find their mistakes so exalted.--Mantanmoreland 04:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Support

1. Strong support strong opinions, nice answer to Q4, and should be useful esp on tricky policy issues, SqueakBox 01:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
2. Already, wasn't, you know the rest. --Slowking Man 20:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
3. Support. Excellent contributor who will make a great admin. Will (aka Wimt) 20:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
4. Definitely a nice guy, should be good. Majorly (talk | meet) 20:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
5. Gracenotes is an excellent contributor, a funny and genial collaborator and a great guy who will make a great admin. :-) --Iamunknown 20:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
6. Strong support as nom - best of luck squire! Ryan Postlethwaite 20:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
7. Support—at the risk of sounding cliché, I was under the genuine impression this user was an sysop already; nevertheless, Gracenote's contributions speak for themselves, and I have every confidence in him and I hope the community thinks likewise ... oh, and I suppose the icing on the cake is such a trustworthy nominator ;-) good luck ~ Anthøny 20:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
8. Support - Gracenotes is an excellent contributor and would make a really good Admin..----Cometstyles 20:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
9. Sean William 20:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
10. Support had interactions with him before and he seemed like admin quality for sure. Let's give him a mop. —Anas 20:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
11. Support I reviewed his contributions over the past month and am impressed with the range and civility of the edits. Would be an asset. —Ocatecir 20:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
12. Support This user is in my Top 3 non-admins who should be... hopefully not for much longer. GDonato (talk) 20:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

    Support-Certainly. Telcourbanio Care for a talk? 20:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

    Sockpuppet of banned user Molag Bal. Riana ⁂ 13:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

13. Support per nom and what I witnessed from this user. Seems pretty much alright. —AldeBaer 20:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

    Can't wait to see who's eventually going to show up and oppose for what reason. I'm so excited, I just can't imagine who that might be... —AldeBaer 20:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

    I can't say I am thrilled to be an example of a standard (and so quickly, too!) :~

14. Support, won't abuse tools. Has TONS of experience on Misplaced Pages, and Misplaced Pages could benefit from him editing protected templates (like Ryan said). *Cremepuff222* 20:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
15. Support I seem to recall I had a bad interaction at one point in time, but I can't find anything wrong with him as an admin. Actually thought he already was one. ⇒ SWATJester 21:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
16. Support I don't foresee any significant problems with this editor using the admin tools. (aeropagitica) 21:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
17. Oppose, confused the hell out of me while trying to get me to edit a protected template for him Support, of course. Picaroon (Talk) 21:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
18. Absolute Support for him! Great editor. Definitely deserves it. ~EdBoy 21:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
19. Yow! (aka support). Done deal for me, good job, good luck. The Rambling Man 21:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
20. Strong Support as co-nominator. Nishkid64 (talk) 21:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
21. Support Gracenotes isn't already an administrator?! :O Funpika 22:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
22. Support-Great user, great edits (and now he can make all those protected templates better without having to ask someone to do it for him). --R Contribs_@ (Red Sux!) 22:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
23. «Snowolf » supports this candidate for adminship, as he is confident that this user won't do anything stupid with the tools (added on 22:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC))
24. Support - good candidate with an excellent track record. Go for it! - Alison ☺ 22:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
25. Support-Seems like a great user. Lεmσηflαsh/_(c) 22:36, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
26. Support: I've seen this user on #vandalism-en-wp. He could use the tools. ~ Magnus animuM ≈ √∞ 22:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
27. Support Excellent candidate. With respect to gaillimh, I'll point out that April Fool's Day has confused more than its share of fine admins over the years. Unfortunately, this place just enters the Twilight Zone for those 24 hours. :) Xoloz 22:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
28. Support Impressive record. the_undertow 22:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
29. Support Now that I see you're the "good one" (see comments below)...just kidding. — MichaelLinnear 22:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
30. Strong support I should have watchlisted the page. Gracenotes has been reasonable in discussions and accurate in AIV reports. —dgies_c 22:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
31. SupportThis user's broad experience and work with templates is impressive. His willingness to assist others seems well documented. JodyB _talk 22:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
32. Support. My experience with Gracenotes has been the exact opposite from Gaillimh's. I've seen Gracenotes display good skills, good reasoning and a good sense of humor.--Kubigula (talk) 23:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
33. Amazing grace! The earth shall soon dissolve like snow, the sun forbear to shine, but God who call'd me here below, will be forever mine. --Deskana (AFK 47) 23:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

    ROTFLMAO! List this at WP:MOTD ASAP! :-PReal96 23:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

34. RfA clique #1 G1ggy! 23:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
35. Support This user is patient with others and would be fair towards others. Real96 23:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
36. Support, This user meets my criteria. --Random 23:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
37. Support for my favourite janitor, hoping that he will be one of the additions that the admin team desperatly seems to need. Be as little an admin as you can :D --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 00:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
38. Strong Support, A great editor who will use the new tools wisely. --Mschel 00:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
39. Support I like what I see. Jmlk17 00:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
40. Support - very active editor who consistently finds useful areas in which to involve themselves. Warofdreams talk 00:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
41. Support I know this user, he has strong technical expertise and good experience. Wooyi 00:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
42. Support An excellent candidate for the mop. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 01:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
43. Support. Good user, no problems. - Zeibura S. Kathau 01:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
44. Support Excellent editor and will be great admin. κaτaʟaveno_C 01:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
45. Strong support An excellent user from what I've seen of Gracenotes. He is always civil and respectful. This user will make a great administrator. Acalamari 01:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
46. Support My experience has been positive, although ST47 and Gurch may have a point. alphachimp 01:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
47. Support – Has demonstrated an excellent breadth of knowledge of Misplaced Pages policy. Always willing to participate in discussions. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 02:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
48. Support, surely. -- Phoenix2 03:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
49. Support. Wait, you aren't an admin? bibliomaniac15 04:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
50. Support Why did it take this long? Yonatan 05:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
51. Strong, strong support. I ran into Gracenotes several months ago at the help desk, where he was courteous, informative, and ... well, helpful. Thus, my personal experience leads me to view him as both "easily approachable" and skillful in communication. Not long after that, Gracenotes was kind enough to correct a template I had tried to create (the important word here is "tried" ... at the time, my knowledge of templates was limited to "If I poke around here, I can cause changes elsewhere"). So, in now considering this RfA, I am struck by three things: (1) Gracenotes has an excellent contributions record; (2) I am more than satisfied with the responses to the questions; and (3) you're not an admin?!? Cheers, Black Falcon 05:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

    By the way, I am curious: what's this about? Cheers, Black Falcon 05:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

    Gracenotes is clearly a sockpuppet of me and must be banned immediately – Gurch 19:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

52. Support - I think he will be a productive and helpful admin ˉˉ╦╩ 05:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
53. Support. Good candidate. Disagreed with him last time we crossed paths on AFD, but still I found his approach there to be thoughtful, as well as a willingness to acknowledge the concerns of those who disagreed with him, and that is a very positive attribute which bodes well for responsible adminship. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
54. Support. A4 is a valid viewpoint, and this is not trolling. –Pomte 06:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
55. $upport. I've seen you around, and you deserve the chance. Good luck, Dfrg.msc 06:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
56. Sounds reasonable. But perhaps your userpage could make clearer that you're really not Grace Note? >Radiant< 07:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
57. Should make a good admin. -- John Reaves (talk) 08:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
58. Strong support will not become a fine asset, already is. 08:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
59. I have faith he would not abuse administrative abilities nor make rash decisions, so why not? He looks like a well rounded guy that knows his stuff. Matthew 08:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
60. I know him from WP:UTM, and I think his adminship will be very useful for template administration. Phaunt 10:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
61. Jumping up and down on chairs support, if this is what he wants. – Riana ⁂ 11:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
62. Pile-on Support From what I've seen, the user's net effect on Misplaced Pages would be overwhelmingly positive as a result of having the tools. Anybody else thinks this'll make the Wikipedian 100? Cheers, Lanky (YELL) 15:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
63. Support Wow, This guy has clocked in alot of edits in the past two days alone. I believe he would make a great admininstrator. QuasyBoy 11:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
64. Support Nice answers to questions, plenty of experience and I think you'd make great usage of the tools. Good luck! Regards — The Sunshine Man (a.k.a Tellyaddict) 15:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
65. Strong Support per his promise to help out at CAT:CSD. Believe me, that's one area where we need all the help we can get. Walton 15:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
66. Weak support I'm not thrilled with your policy on attack sites, but I think you'll make a fantastic admin. —METS501 (talk) 18:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
67. Support -- good record. Should make a good admin. --A. B. 18:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
68. Support on the blance of arguments. Also, a quick check of contribs shows a clear ned for admin tools. Will do lots of good and , IMO, no real harm, with the bit. Eluchil404 19:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
69. Support. Can't see any downside here. —Xezbeth 19:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
70. Support - GN is a fantastic editor. He doesn't 'support attack sites', but supports using your head about links and not just going 'oooooh, think of the children' and hitting the delete button. He'll be a great admin, I have no doubts. JoeSmack 19:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
71. Support Can't say that I agree with extracting an unbreakable blood oath from every prospective admin about any issue, if nothing else because admins should be flexible and who knows when doing something might be a good idea in the future? I'm not even sure what site's we're talking about beyond Brandt's, and that's easilly findable with Google I'm sure, this seems like a symbolic effort that would restrict people's free speech but not really accomplish much. At any rate, the candidate is a good faith editor, no one disputes that, and we need admins who'll get their hands dirty with CSD and other actual work. It just doesn't seem like there's a very compelling reason not to promote here. --W.marsh 19:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
72. Support Gracenotes is certainly a well known and respected editor, and I must admit that I was quite surprised to see this RfA, as I had always assumed he was an admin. The opposition here would be wise to compare the their opinions to the most unfortunate of opinions found during the Cold War. --Constantine 20:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
73. Support because of the willingness to express an opinion of attack sites. Ever for those who disagree with it, I don't see how being an admin would cause problems this way. I think it shows a welcome distinction between pages attacking unfairly particular individuals in a damaging way, and those discussing--however unfairly--WP. Divergence from the WP orthodoxy is sometimes a good thing. DGG 20:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

    So you think that there should be links to sites which not attempt to, but in fact actually do, disclose the real names, addresses and work locations of users on Misplaced Pages, for the sole purpose of real-life harrassment of those people? Corvus cornix 21:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

    Huh? That isnt what DGG said, SqueakBox 21:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

74. Support. Differing opinions on one issue that many people feel strongly about aside, answers are well thought out, contributions are impeccable. Lexicon (talk) 21:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
75. Support, I thought he was already an admin! Tim.bounceback 21:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
76. Support he is a hard worker whose contributions are of excellent quality; he is allowed to have his own opinions, as is any admin, provided they do not interfere with administrative actions. I don't think that Gracenotes will have a problem with making bad decisions based on his views and I certainly do not think there is any chance of abuse of tools on his part. — Editor at Large 22:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
77. Support. Far as I'm concerned, Q4 is a plus. --Gwern (contribs) 22:30 23 May 2007 (GMT)
78. Support I'd also like to ask people opposing on the basis of Q4 to reconsider their opposition. I happen to disagree (to a certain extent) with Gracenotes on this subject but why should that prevent him from being a competent sysop? It's not like he's advocating his right to link to these sites in disregard for the consensual policy. I'm afraid a lot of people are opposing giving Gracenotes as a way to make a stand against his position on this particular question. I'm not sure what this will achieve other than forbid Misplaced Pages from having an extra competent admin. Pascal.Tesson 23:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
79. Strong support I see nothing that leads me to believe that this user will abuse the admin tools. He also appears to be very patient when dealing with other users.Frise 00:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
80. Support I'm confident this person would use the tools well, and I applaud their clarity and openness in their personal opinions on an area which I'm sure many people have differing opinions on. What's important is that consensus is followed in any key debates, and that's something that every admin signs onto regardless of their personal opinions. Robchurch's comment at the bottom is also worth a read. Orderinchaos 00:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

    Robchurch's comments have been moved to the talk page of the RfA.. (diff) -- daveh4h 03:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

81. Strong Support. Seems qualified, and the attempts on the part of an extremely vocal minority to impose a litmus test regarding the "attack sites" policy (which seems to be the Wikipedian equivalent of the War on Drugs... a moral panic that's pursued in opposition to all semblances of common sense, and all opponents are heavily vilified) only make me more inclined to support him as an advocate of rationality on this issue. The suppression of a link to Daniel Brandt's site in a Signpost article about him is just one of many examples of silliness perpetrated in the name of this idiotic policy. *Dan T.* 01:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
82. Support - I trust this user. — mholland (talk) 01:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
83. Strong Support - Good answers to questions, especially Q4. One's personal opinions on off-wiki attack sites doesn't affect a user's ability to be an admin, nor should it affect community trust, unless they're the user actually running the site. Gracenotes is long overdue for the admin bit, and I admonish SlimVirgin for attempting to deny that over trivial and unrelated grounds. ^demon 01:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
84. Support Answers to question four/4a indicate that the candidate considers context, intent, and effect to be relevant and intends to use judgement. Those are qualities I want in an admin. GRBerry 03:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
85. Strong Support The only moral distinction to be made in the "attack sites" debate is that making references to such in NPA or any policy page suggests their existence to random individuals just visiting or blocked per those pages. Otherwise, whatever users want to do when they come across a link to an off-site attack is up to them per the circumstances, and I highly doubt Gracenotes would get in an edit war with anyone who decided to remove an off-site link. Gracenote's answers suggest pragmatic awareness of and concern with personal security issues, and that is enough for me.—ACADEMY LEADER 03:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
86. Support. Majoreditor 03:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
87. Support. Answer(s) to Q4 seem very sensible to me; no other serious concerns appear to have been raised. -- Visviva 06:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
88. Support common sense over unbending rules, yes! SchmuckyTheCat 06:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
89. Support I am happy with his(?) response to the BADSITES bit. Viridae 07:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

    Support Smart user, has a sense of humour, and says what he thinks instead of what he knows people want to hear. Kla'quot 08:27, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

90. Support I note he is quite candid as to where his interests and intended work are directed, and where the extra buttons will most likely prove useful. As for his views regarding "attack sites" I can only direct interested readers to the 'Crats comments regarding my own very recent RfA. LessHeard vanU 12:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
91. Support per above. Bucketsofg 13:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
92. There's way too much me-too-ism going on in the Oppose section. People are opposing because Gracenotes wants to take a nuanced, not-one-size-fits-all approach to a problem. I'd say "unbelievable", except it's all too believable. I support Gracenotes' request for the sysop bit. -- nae'blis 15:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
93. Support. If nothing else, to balance out this unfair exercise. I'm not going to see another RfA go down because of a SNOWball on one of SV's opinions. RyanGerbil10(Don't ask 'bout Camden) 17:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
94. Support Appreciate the nuanced and careful responses to questions, and appreciate the extent of this user's contributions to the encyclopedia. JavaTenor 17:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
95. Support Why do I even need a reason? —  $PЯINGrαgђ  17:27, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
96. support seems like a trustworthy editor, my few prior encounters have been positive. I particularly like the nuanced resposne to Q4. DES 17:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
97. Support Appears trustworthy to me, and objections below don't seem to have a lot to do with use of admin tools. - Ehheh 17:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
98. Support. I wasn't crazy about the initial answer to Q4 but am satisfied with the clarification provided by the candidate. Also, on a more general note, what's with all the co-nominations? This isn't a High School yearbook and I fail to see the point. Expressing one's support is all fine and good but let's not overdo it, please. -- Seed 2.0 18:02, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
99. WP:100 support, per nominations, good communication skills and honesty. --Guinnog 18:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
100. Support I have interacted quite a bit with Gracenotes and always found to be helpful, polite and friendly. One of those "I thought they were already an admin. MECU≈talk 18:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
101. Support. While I'm not a huge fan of the attack-site stance, there's way too much weight being put into it plus me-tooism below by folks like Grace_note. It's a big issue, but it's not enough to blast an RfA for. If we all agreed on everything, the world would be a boring place. It's more important to have reasonable folks who are trustworthy in the position (even if they have different opinions on stuff) than people who will say what others want to hear. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 18:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
102. Support. Conditionally. You are welcome to hold a minority view, as long as you agree to honor the consensus if people disagree with you. If you feel unable to do that, say so now. Jehochman / _✔ 21:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

     • Comment I think Gracenotes' demeanor here more than indicates he is willing to listen and respond to minority views without compromising his own ethics. I should hope that consensus is honored in this case.—ACADEMY LEADER 21:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

     I have, in several occasions past, been on the "wrong side" of consensus, and have accepted it or tried to reach a compromise with the other side. I see no reason to discontinue this, whatever consensus turns out to be. Furthermore, I do not see this specific issue (and my personal views on it) affecting my actions as a janitor. Gracenotes § 22:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

103. Support. Assume good faith. — CharlotteWebb 22:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
104. Support based on past editing history, and thoughtful answers to RFA questions. Abecedare 22:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
105. Support based on sensible answers to questions and no apparent other issues. With all respect for Wikipedians whose privacy has been violated by pages on so-called attach sites, Gracenotes position to take a nuanced view on what should and should not be linked to is I feel a positive approach. The Arbcom resolution of the ED issue was probably a fine first step to a specific problem, but the realization that there are instances of sites on which a) behaviour by some users which goes against our basic tenets is tolerated, but b) where there is also potentially worthwhile criticism/discussion to explore in improving WP is a valuable one. There have been discussions on WP where it is exactly an analysis of what is being said on part of such a site is particularly valuable (the hoopla over removing a link in a Signpost article comes to mind), and the kneejerk (though understandable) reaction of certain editors to stifle that discussion has been counterproductive for improving Misplaced Pages, and the omission of the actual link has likely had negligible impact in terms of amount of traffic to the actual pages which deliberately violate editors' privacy. This last sentence of mine is supposition and may be incorrect, but I am disturbed that the fact that a respected and thoughtful user appears to share it (but promises to abide by consensus, whatever that happens to be) would disqualify them from adminship. Martinp 01:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
106. Support. Gracenotes' view on attack sites doesn't seem to be as utterly criminal as some have made it out to be. Even if Gracenotes "supports" links to attack sites, which is a conclusion I don't know how anyone could make from his answer to Question 4, would it matter? Consensus seems to go in the other direction, and he is entitled to a different opinion. Does that mean he'll act against everyone else as an administrator? I don't really see that happening, and the rest of his abilities are just too good to pass up. — Rebelguys2 01:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
107. Support. Will 01:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
108. Support Gracenotes is an experienced and trusted user, and has expressed interest in a wide range of admin chores. I will not oppose for something so trivial as a subset of the external linking guidelines, even if I disagree. YechielMan 04:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
109. Support. -- DS1953 05:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
110. Support. Everybody has a right to his or hers own POV. I am convinced that Gracenotes will be able to separate his POV from his use of the tools. Being an admin isn't an obligation to be active on all the issues admins can help with; it is perfectly OK for admins not to interfere in some matters, and leave it to other admins. I am convinced Gracenotes will not abuse the tools, and that's what counts. Errabee 08:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
111. Support. I was going to oppose, but that was because I didn't realise there was a User:Grace Note and a User:Gracenotes. After looking over Gracenotes' contributions, he (she?) seems sensible enough. The attack sites thing seems like a whole lot of hoo-ha entirely unrelated to whether Gracenotes having the sysop tools would benefit or disbenefit Misplaced Pages. I don't want 1300 admins who all think the same and act the same, and to oppose based on a single ideological difference (which is all this is) seems disingenuous. Neil (►) 10:00, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
112. Although I disagree with Gracenotes on the Attack site issue, I highly doubt he will enforce his point of view to an obscure level, or disrupt Misplaced Pages to make his point. Upon view of his previous contributions, the good outways the bad, and I am inclined to support him. --Kzrulzuall 10:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
113. Support. I disagree with Gracenotes on the attack site issue, but I agree with DGG, Chairboy, and Neil, that this is simply not a big enough deal to withhold support from a qualified candidate over. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
114. I'm Mailer Diablo and I approve this message! - 14:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
115. Good user. --- RockMFR 14:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
116. Support. One of those folks I thought was an admin already. Clearly "gets it." --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
117. Support Gracenotes is exactly the kind of guy we need. Come on, im agreeing with Jeff, that's consensus.-M 15:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
118. Support Clearly a reasonable editor. I am profoundly uncomfortable with the railroading below. The statement that Gracenotes "supports linking to attack sites" is really, I believe, a misrepresentation of this editor's views. --JayHenry 16:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

     Comment. Nobody is saying that, and I notice that a number of the people in support also disagree with his views on attack sites. The question is whether the disagreement is enough to oppose this RfA. That is up to every individual editor's judgment.--Mantanmoreland 17:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

     I'm actually referring to direct quotes where people most explicitly are saying that (Diff 1, Diff 2, and Diff 3, for example) sorry if that wasn't clear before. I understand their deep concern about attack sites and I believe that their concerns are justified and warranted. What I'm saying is that I disagree with their interpretation of Gracenotes's statements as being any form of support for these sites, I disagree that any of Gracenotes's previous actions would provide oxygen to these sites and I disagree that these opinions Gracenotes holds are relevant to the admin tools. I share the deep concern that everyone has with regard to attack sites, cyber-harassment and cyber-stalking. And from his detailed and thoughtful response I really think Gracenotes does too. --JayHenry 18:17, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

119. Support, excellent user. AW 16:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
120. Support See nothing to suggest will abuse the tools. Davewild 17:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
121. Strong Support Support, for having what it takes to be an admin. Strong, for realizing that a notable link doesn't suddenly become non-notable, just because the subject isn't friendly to Misplaced Pages. Bladestorm 18:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
122. Support Intelligent, independent but not grandstanding, process-oriented and circumspect. Likely to treat adminship as a responsibility rather than a personal distinction or club membership. Very impressive performance throughout this RfA process.--G-Dett 20:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
123. Support The oppose comments do not sway my initial impression, that this user will use the tools to improve the encylopedia. There is no evidence that he supports attack sites, merely that he does not subscribe to an exclusive opinion regardless of situational variables.--Xnuala (talk)(Review) 23:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
124. Support. While I am concerned by the issues raised in oppposition and I do not agree with Gracenotes about attack sites, my experience of his contributions and interactions with him have been overwhelmingly positive. I believe he would make a good adminstrator. WjBscribe 00:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
125. Support as argued by the honorable User:Martinp above. As a community, we must begin to deal with the intransigent illogic of the Opposed votes below that 1) create an absurd standard and then 2) vote against a good candidate by that absurd standard. This is a community problem and can be dealt with only by individual editors taking personal responsibility for judging the issue at hand, which is this RfA in this case, rather than merely following the arbitrary off-topic meanderings of the bellwether. --Rednblu 01:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
126. Strong Support I admit I am shocked that there were any significant number of people who wished to oppose this user's becoming an administrator. I find absolutely no reason not to support, not to mention the numerous strengths of skill, dedication, and hard work that make him a fine administrator. Ninja! 01:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
127. Support Per rationale set out on my userpage. Edivorce 01:58, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
128. Many issues have been raised with this nomination. After much thought and consideration, I think that giving Gracenotes the mop will, on the whole, improve the encyclopedia. Since that's what we're all here to do, I support this nom. -- MarcoTolo 02:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
129. Support A user that can be trusted. CJCurrie 04:12, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
130. Strongly support, good editor, and everything suggests he would make a good admin. Everyking 10:14, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
131. Support Assests swamp any possible criticisms.--Brownlee 10:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
132. Terence 13:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
133. Support J. Spencer 14:39, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
134. Support! PeaceNT 16:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
135. I've run across Gracenotes several times, and each time I felt that he was already an administrator. EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
136. Support! Ben MacDui (Talk) 17:19, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
137. Support I don't find any of the oppose reasons convincing Yamamoto Ichiro (山本一郎)(会話) 17:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
138. Support and i think to those who think WP:BADSITES is a good idea... well - think about this: All it takes for something to be called an attack site is for someone to claim it is, and then anyone saying it's not is beaten into submission. --Random832 18:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
139. Support - I thought Gracenotes was an admin already. I'm certain that he will make an excellent one. Nihiltres 19:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
140. Support - I believe Gracenotes will be more closely scrutinized on the attack site issue, and will be ever more careful that links conform to Misplaced Pages policy. The Transhumanist    20:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
141. Support - A tireless "mop-and-bucket" guy, it would appear. Semifreddo 21:35, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
142. Support - would benefit project with access to admin tools. Catchpole 22:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
143. Support. Whatever his position on attack sites, it doesn't change that he'll make a great admin. How can all these people oppose based on someone's stance on an issue that won't affect use of admin powers at all? Opposing based on someone's stance on some minor policy is just an absolute disregard for things that actually matter on RfA. --Rory096 23:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
144. Support. Seems level-headed and nice in the discussion on this page. Haukur 00:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
145. Strong Support Gracenotes seems to me as a great user! Even though very few times I have encountered him, I still get that strong good expresion of his experience on Misplaced Pages and his future as an admin. Concerning all those oppose votes per the answer on question 4, I really believe that isn´t a good reason for opposing a candidate, especially if the policy in question (whether the candidate agrees with it or not) is not officially a policy. By the way, Gracenotes has got tons of edits and I´m glad he has considered being a template admin. Best of luck, ♠Tom@sBat 01:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
146. Support. Already doing a lot of mop-and-bucket work, and I see no reason to believe that he would be dangerous with the tools. Honestly, I already thought he was an admin. William Pietri 05:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

     Support a very effective editor. I don't actually see how the questions about attack sites matter, regardless of what one thinks of the question. There is nothing a single admin can do that would cause problems in this regard. Assuming he had been an admin earlier--how would things have been worse? DGG 06:05, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

     Strongly though you may feel about this, you have already voted (see support #73) – Gurch 07:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

147. Support. Will not abuse tools. There's no reason to think he would abuse the tools, ergo adminship. ➪HiDrNick! 08:05, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
148. Support —Ruud 15:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
149. Support; Gracenotes has long demonstrated a good attitude towards and solid understanding of Misplaced Pages, and can be trusted with some additional maintenance tools. -/- Warren 15:53, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
150. Support - Arguments and discussions such as this are why people keep leaving WP. And let's leave aside all the pretty language, the real discussion is "Is Gracenotes going to do exactly what he's told?" If someone posts a link to a site that has violent threats or clearly objectionable material, I'm confident Gracenotes will get rid of it. If, on the other hand, it links to some criticism of Misplaced Pages or a particular person's poorly thought out actions, it shouldn't be struck. The problem here, for me, is that I've been stalked, and very nearly killed, and it was a lot worse than my address, or someone's sick fantasies. There are legal and technical avenues for handling this sort of problem, and the RfA of a good editor is not a proper forum for it. He will use the tools better, and have better judgement and a more pleasant demeanor, than 80% of the people currently admins now. This entire mess reflects poorly on WP as a whole. --Elaragirl 16:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
151. Support Courteous, knowledgeable and conscientious - what more could you ask?--R613vlu 16:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
152. Support, thought user already was an admin. :-) Shows independent thought. I am not surprised by additional tool usage. Enwp bot policy is broken and in need of overhaul. ignoring that particular ruleset under those circumstances is not a problem, and many people are doing so. --Kim Bruning 17:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
153. Support ... meh, being wrong about attack sites has nothing to do with knowing how to hit a delete button. --BigDT 17:41, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
154. Support ... Great contributor and would make a great admin. --Oakshade 18:56, 27 May 2007 (UTC)