Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:42, 8 May 2005

May 7

Gay, lesbian, and bisexual / LGBT occupational categories

Given complaints on the talk page, I'm posting this request for undeletion of the LGBT occupational subcategories. Personally, I think it's a bad idea to keep Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people but not any subcategories, because then the category gets way too large. Other people have said they need the subcatgories to put under e.g. "Category:Artists" or "Category:Musicians". See Misplaced Pages talk:Categories_for_deletion for more. The original deletion discussion is at Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 April 24. It's also worth considering whether these will be LGB or LGBT. Also, we need to decide what the threshold should be for undeletion. I propose that if a 50% majority supports recreation, that's sufficient. We generally need a 66% or more majority to support deletion, so 50% for undeletion prevents arbitrary flip-flopping. -- Beland 23:12, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

• Keep deleted. Unnecessary subcategorization. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and consistent with our previous decisions to delete occupational subcategories of Category:Italian-Americans and Category:Jews, this is too much. Categories should also group only meaningful relationships of characteristics, and someone's sexual orientation (just as ethnicity) and occupation are usually coincidental and arbitrary relationships to draw. Allowing for these kinds of categories also creates an inevitable mess on articles, as every ethnic and social identity would garner similar subcategories. Create lists if you must, which can then be annotated to explain the relationship, and the lists themselves can be categorized by both the general personal identity category and the general occupational category. Postdlf 23:27, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
• Reinstate. Until one can search on multiple categories at the same time then some subcategories need to remain available, and these "LGBT xxxxx" group are one of those categorisations. --Vamp:Willow 00:05, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
• Keep deleted. Not necessary. --Kbdank71 02:14, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
• Reinstate this very useful research tool which should NOT have been deleted. Jonathunder 03:54, 2005 May 8 (UTC)
• Reinstate --Spinboy 04:31, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
• Hesitant reinstate. Some fields in particular can have a special relationship between sexuality and occupation. Writers, artists, and historians especially have devoted quite a bit of energy into connecting their sexuality and their work. This could also actually help to clean up category messes on articles. Instead of Category: Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people and Category: Artists, there would only be one required category, say, Category: Lesbian artists. There are also peculiar categories where this may be extremely important, say, Category: Lesbian feminists. As long as people are willing to maintain the categories I see no particular reason not to allow their existence. -Seth Mahoney 04:35, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
• Reinstate. These subcategories are created for immensely practical reasons (let's make some sense out of an otherwise enormous and clogged master category of lgb people! let's help readers move across widely searched and relevant common threads, like lgbt musicians or lgbt people in politics) and opposed for abstract theoretical grounds (cross-categorization isn't ideal! someday MediaWiki should really be able to process these automatically!) I agree with these abstract ideals too, but until the software support is there per VampWillow, let's let the category be manageable and useful for readers and editors interested in topics about lgbt people beyond just "lgb people." The consensus already accepts less-than-theoretically-ideal duplication between categories and lists because each can do for now some things the other can't. There's no reason not to do the same here. Samaritan 04:44, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
• My own preference would obviously be to reinstate the categories, since I'm the one who started most of them in the first place and the one who technically set off the current discussion, but I'm willing to abide by any decision that gets made. My primary concern was that I'd like to believe that my contribution history is solid enough that if it's noticed that I created a page or a category that's up for deletion, somebody would think "Oh, he's a good enough contributor that he might have had a valid reason for doing this; maybe we should at least give him the opportunity to explain it." (And no, I don't think I'm special; I'd expect that courtesy to be extended to any established user with a relatively good reputation.) If my edits really ain't worth bat guano, feel free to disabuse me of my delusions of adequacy; otherwise, we should probably discuss some way to flag categories as "under discussion" (an asterisk in the category link? a policy that the creator should always be alerted to the discussion?) rather than assuming that people are always going to magically be aware of what's going on with everything they've ever edited. Bearcat 05:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
• Reinstate For all the reasons stated above. I suggest that people read the discussions at Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_deletion#LGBT_subcategories. Anyone serious about CfD should examine the original discussion and the follow up discussions linked above. This points out a serious problem with CfD which should be addressed somehow. Categories should be deleted ONLY if there is an overwhelming majority that agrees. If the majority cannot convince a vocal minority to change their oppinion, the category should stay. Misplaced Pages should be a big tent. -- Samuel Wantman 06:38, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

No, that is an invitation to groups of activists to foist their agendas on Misplaced Pages, regardless of the majority view, and there could hardly be a subject area where that is more likely to happen. Keep deleted. 06:42, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Category:Ed, Edd n Eddy

This was created as part of a well-intentioned attempt to clean up after a problem user (User:Bobber2, now dba User:Bobber1 FYI). However, the only practical result of this category is to list episode articles in alphabetical order. Furthermore, the category tag has not been added to any of the episode articles or the main article, leaving nothing linking to this category. If a reader is interested in episodes of the TV show, they will undoubtedly go to the main article first, where they can then link to episode articles. In other words, this category is "generally a bad idea." Delete. Soundguy99 18:24, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

• Someone should vfd all the articles in this category. Assuming they're all deleted, we can delete the category. On the off chance some of them can be expanded (personally, based on what I've looked at, this isn't very likely), then this category would be appropriate. --Azkar 22:53, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

category:Religions of Brazil

Should be renamed as category:Religion in Brazil which is standard and accomodates all relevant articles, eg those about Cathedrals, religous history and biogaphies of priests. Oliver Chettle 17:58, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Support. "Religions of Brazil" would invite too much inclusion, and we'd eventually have articles like Roman Catholicism categorized by every country in which there are Roman Catholics. Postdlf 23:29, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Good rationale. Samaritan 04:44, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Category:The 50 Worst Movies Ever Made

I have no objections to categories like this in principle as long as the list is significant enough and the source identified. (e.g., something like "Rolling Stone's 50 best albums ever") But I don't think movies covered in a random documentary deserve a category. Gamaliel 17:51, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. The name appears just as POV of a category as "Greatest Americans" was, which we deleted. It's also too much to create categories for every ranked list. Even the AFI ones may even be too much, but at least those stood out somewhat as notable, and the categories are properly titled to indicate the source of the designation. Include a reference to the movie's inclusion in the list in those articles if absolutely necessary. Postdlf 23:32, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, especially as - with all of these top/bottom 50/100/1000 lists - the list will change each year and with each newspaper/tv channel creating the list so would be (a) massive POV, and (b) hell to maintain. --Vamp:Willow 00:02, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per VampWillow. Samaritan

Category:Transportation in Ottawa-Carleton Region

Duplicated by the new and better named Category:Transportation in Ottawa. --Spinboy 16:43, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

• Delete then. Samaritan 05:24, 8 May 2005 (UTC)