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Revision as of 16:02, 29 May 2007 editMackensen (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators125,026 edits →Digwuren: concur in part← Previous edit Revision as of 16:10, 29 May 2007 edit undoPetri Krohn (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users37,089 edits →Digwuren: DLX is not anonymousNext edit →
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I concur that {{user|3 Löwi}} and {{user|Klamber}} are probably the same user, even with an allowance for the arcane setup of Estonia's infrastructure. I invite an explanation, but the same pattern of edits combined with the same IP history, and the lack of other users on the same ranges, leaves little doubt in my mind. ] ] 16:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC) I concur that {{user|3 Löwi}} and {{user|Klamber}} are probably the same user, even with an allowance for the arcane setup of Estonia's infrastructure. I invite an explanation, but the same pattern of edits combined with the same IP history, and the lack of other users on the same ranges, leaves little doubt in my mind. ] ] 16:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
:DLX is not anonymous. His real name is right there on his home page. The same name is is the register of his private pri.ee domain. He is however an ] major (Software engineer) from the ]. I do not know if he went to the same lectures with the others; seems that he already started his studies in 1994, and recently only did Ph.D. work. -- ] 16:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:10, 29 May 2007

Digwuren

request links: main • edit • links • history • watch • talk
Filed: 17:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

All these users seem to be somehow related to the University of Tartu. They have co-operated in AfD discussions and revert wars. User:Digwuren has systematically reverted all my Estonia related edits for the past three weeks, often in only two minutes. He has received help in avoiding the 3RR from User:Alexia Death, User:3 Löwi and User:Klamber.

User:Digwuren and User:Alexia Death correspond to distinct Internet personalities. They however seem to be coordinating their edits off-line, and possibly editing from the same IP-address. If they are not sockpuppets, they are most likely meatpuppets. They only started editing after the Bronze Soldier of Tallinn controversy and seem to be single-purpouse accounts. Their intent seems to rewrite the History of Estonia, deleting points-of-view that they consider "Soviet occupation denialism" or otherwise symphathetic to Russians in Estonia. -- Petri Krohn 17:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 Confirmed. Alexia Death = Erik Jesse = 3 Löwi = Klamber.  Possible that this is Digwuren too. Voice-of-All 05:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Modifyied after double checking (scroll down). Voice-of-All 15:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
As a participant I demand to know what are the grounds to this claim, as it is clearly INCORRECT.--Alexia Death 06:14, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
P.S : Ive notified users 3 Löwi and Klamber of this result, I fail to contact Erik Jesse because I have opted not to send and recive mail trough wikipedia.--Alexia Death 06:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
P.S.S: Ive posted from two IP-s, one ending in .111, thats my home, and the other ending in .202, thats what Im posting from now, at work. Its a big place so I cant be 100% sure theres not another poster within same walls but I SERIOUSLY doubt it.--Alexia Death 06:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Perhaps, there are some fundamental flaws in the checkuser mechanism for the context of Estonia. If it, for example, would consider all of Estonia's IP space a "single dynamic pool", or assign undue weight to common web proxies such as cache.ut.ee or cache.elion.ee, it would be bound to think there are at most one, or perhaps two, people in Estonia.
  • As an aside, Alexia Death is female. The rest of the list are, AFAIK, all male. (I am not entirely sure of 3 Löwi's gender thus far.)
  • I read the articles on checkuser, and it seems I considered it more automated than it really was. Apparently, a not inconsiderable amount of operator discretion goes into the decisions. Hence, I join in Alexia Death's demands to know what the evidence was and how it was interpreted.
Please back your accusations with something. I have no idea what others do, but I know that I have not discussed anything with any others outside WP - and even here we have kept our discussions strictly in English. There is no need to "coordinate" anything, especially in cases such as Estland, where it is obvious that article is bad, unsourced and offtopic. DLX 15:07, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I have also finished University of Tartu, been successful at the Estonia student "olympics" and run web server with my own registered domain. DLX 15:07, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
      • I've ran this again more intensively.  Confirmed 3 Löwi = Klamber = DLX. The others are on the same ISP, but its records only give the location of the ISP's office itself, which is useless when checking specific IPs. Checks of other evidence (which per WP:BEANS I can't get into) suggest that the others are at different places. Given that, it is best to consider the others as  Possible at best. They may be "meatpuppets", but editing patterns will best determine that. Voice-of-All 15:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Did you resolve the IP's as well? Like it has been said, big portions of Estonia are behind few web proxies - and the name should be very obvious (cache.elion.ee(about 1/3 of Estonia, including myself), cache.ut.ee (whole University of Tartu, 15000+ users)). Could we see that evidence, too? Because I am not sockpuppet, meatpuppet or clone - and I find even accusations of that insulting. DLX 15:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Even this "more intensive" run is not believable. 3 Löwi and DLX have too long and too varying histories for that, and both are also active on Estonian Misplaced Pages. Klamber differs from them at least by personality.
So: what's the evidence? Digwuren 15:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Sigh...I am not going to just release IP and other data as that violates the privacy policy. Voice-of-All 15:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, with the new evidence VoA unbocked Alexia Death and I have unblocked Eric. I have changed the block duration for 3 Löwi from indefinite to 1 week (lets assume he is the main account). I intend to keep Klamber blocked unless the checkuser evidence is changed again. I do not feel comfortable with blocking DXL myself, can somebody else look in the matter? If he is a sock he should be blocked, if there are doubts let him off the hook Alex Bakharev 15:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd hold off any blocks unless there is serious disruption that flares up. The way this ISP is set up makes it hard to tell people apart, as a lot of locations would show as the same. The other checkuser data does show exact matches for the three "confirmed" above. Voice-of-All 15:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I concur that 3 Löwi (talk · contribs) and Klamber (talk · contribs) are probably the same user, even with an allowance for the arcane setup of Estonia's infrastructure. I invite an explanation, but the same pattern of edits combined with the same IP history, and the lack of other users on the same ranges, leaves little doubt in my mind. Mackensen (talk) 16:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

DLX is not anonymous. His real name is right there on his home page. The same name is is the register of his private pri.ee domain. He is however an information technology major (Software engineer) from the University of Tartu. I do not know if he went to the same lectures with the others; seems that he already started his studies in 1994, and recently only did Ph.D. work. -- Petri Krohn 16:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)