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Show Me Love

I'm top poster! I'm top poster! (And I'm watching the film whose title is translated into English as "Show Me Love." That's not its title in Swedish.) Geogre 01:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

O noes, I've been doing it wrong! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, well, the template is greater than the sum of the parts. It is thus with tea, where reading the instructions takes longer than the brewing, steeping, and drinking, and it is so with William Wall (theologian) who has a growth on him now -- a sort of counter-article running down the side of the screen. Geogre 04:09, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Nobody clicked and saw how William Wall's template runs on twice as long as his article and that his template is, essentially, its own little article about how to be a Baptist? Geogre 00:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed. Bishonen | talk 00:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

Thanks. What was interesting to me was what that template had in it. It was a checklist of crucial doctrines for Baptists. That seemed to be a sort of polemic, or a guide. It's odd information for a template. Then, of course, it was also double the vertical length of the article, but we're all used to that by now. Geogre 02:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Nooo!

It's too empty in here!
*does a little dance*
There. That was nice and encyclopedic, right?
(What??? Bishzilla would find it amusing! Well, okay, so no she wouldn't. But then she'd stomp on me, and she'd find that amusing!) Bladestorm 04:11, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

/Bishzilla smile tolerantly at little Bladestorm. Teeth gleam in sunset rays. Little user petrified. Never seen scarier smile. bishzilla _ROARR!! 01:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

WP:STALK ???

• DIFF - This is most highly inappropriate behaviour by Lsi john (talk · contribs · page moves · block user · block log · rfcu). I made one mistake with regards to one citation amongst the hundreds I have added to articles. This amounts to WP:STALK, as well as WP:NPA. I have come to you for help, as opposed to WP:ANI, per your prior suggestion to all of us. Thank you for your time. Yours, Smee 23:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC).
  • Thank you for your response. However your comments served only to point the user in a direction for more appropriate actions, which is good, but did not serve to warn the user about his inapproprate behaviour, which is difficult to deal with at times, to say the least. Smee 00:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for taking it here. I'm no fan of invoking WP:STALK, except in cases where somebody follows another editor around in order to make nuisance edits to everything they do. That's hardly the case here. But I agree that the talkpage of Pathwork was an irrelevant place for Lsi John to bring up the PSI thing (in extenuation, the matter seems to have got to him in a big way). As you've already seen I've written to him there, and, in fact, to you too. No, I don't agree that it's in my brief to talk to him as if to a child, I think my note was, by implication, quite sufficiently reproachful. I'm not in the business of smacking editors. Bishonen | talk 00:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

Okay, your points are valid, sounds good. Thank you for dealing wth this all in such a polite manner. And glad to know I did the right thing by coming to you first. Yours, Smee 00:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

• DIFF - He keeps bringing up an honest mistake that I made with (1) citation that I apologized for, and I have added hundreds of helpful reputable sourced citations to this project in a good faith effort to expand and increase the quality of other articles on the project. His continued harassment of me with this issue is inappropriate and rude. Can you do something about this? I am reaching out to you instead of reporting this, as you have asked us all to do. Thank you again so much for your time, and polite language and patience in this matter. Yours, Smee 12:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC).
  • DIFF 2, This is getting silly and ridiculous. Again, I have added lots and lots of information from reputable cited sources to the project, and helped to expand quality articles. This behaviour by this user is inappropriate. Thanks for your time. Smee 12:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

• Smee, in the Pathwork article, I felt the details were important as they were directly related to a very similar situation in the past. You had asked that the article not be deleted and ultimately promised to bring it back with sufficient reliable sourcing. You were making the same claims for Pathworks that you had for PSI World.

In the LGAT template discussion I did not bring up any specifics. You stated that I had failed to provide 'reliable sourcing' for my views in a discussion (which doesn't require reliable sources). You brought up 'citable sources' in an inappropriate context and I merely suggested that someone else might want to handle that discussion with me. You then chose to include specifics. I did not feel that specifics were important. However, once you brought them up, and misrepresented the situation, it was important to correct it, for the record. Running to Bishonen every time and crying stalking, is a bit silly, IMO.

You inappropriately roast companies with your sourced 'allegations', 'speculation', and 'innuendo', and you base entire articles around these 'dismissed' lawsuits and 'suspicions'. You publish POV in the name of 'reputable sourcing', yet you don't make any effort to provide the other POV and thus to obtain NPOV articles.

I find it perplexing that you have no problem applying tar and feathers to companies, yet you cry harassment when anything is mentioned at all which remotely referrs to the facts of your prior inappropriate misconduct.

This is clearly a sensitive issue for you and I will make every attempt to avoid the subject whenever possible and not bring it up unless it is appropriate to do so. Lsi john 12:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• I have removed the LGAT template from my watchlist and am no longer editing or contributing to it. I have also removed almost every other LGAT article from my watch list. It is not a productive use of my time to attempt to edit articles when Smee continues to complain and then distract the discussion and make it about Smee and how Smee is being mistreated.

In the mediation for Landmark Education here, Smee's first 9 posts were all off-topic and about NPA and Smee refused diff to post within a designated user comment-area (as other editors were doing). Smee's 10th post clearly stated that Smee was no longer involved in the article. And, Smee has now 'joined' the mediation but has yet to provide one single comment which addresses the article or the items being debated.

Someone commented on the 3O discussion page that perhaps Smee needs to take a 2-3 month break from 3O diff. I suggest that Smee might consider taking that suggestion on a broader scale. When every single comment (by one editor) in a mediation is related to NPA or is talking about other editors' actions, it suggests to me that the editor may be burned out and need a break. Lsi john 13:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

John? You realize I get the New Messages banner every time you post HINT HINT? Bishonen | talk 13:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

m Lsi john 13:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

• DIFF 3. My apologies for posting to you again, Bishonen (talk · contribs), but this last comment by User:Lsi john, editing within another user's comments, and then ending the discussion, is more along the same theme of inappropriate talk page behaviour. Thank you again for your time. Smee 17:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC).
  • Well, unless there's something behind it that I'm not aware of, I agree that those {{fact}} templates in your text were pretty unconstructive. But note that he says he's taking it off his watchlist, so... Try to relax, look away, go Zen, Smee. It's something that's worth doing on Misplaced Pages for your own benefit, rather than for the other person. Bishonen | talk 18:09, 28 May 2007 (UTC).
    • Sounds like very good advice. Thank you. Smee 19:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

Sumple

Sumple had some personal attacks against me on his userpage. How dickish can he get?] ]] most damningly ] ] ] ]

Funny thing is these insane edits just proved by point that there is certain alliance between Jiang, blueshirt, Ideogram, LionheartX, and Sumple. An anonymous IP made some accusations on Sumple’s userpage and talkpage, which are obvious personal attacks but nevertheless with some merits. ] ] ] (I know these edits are funny but why would anyone bother to accuse him if he didn’t show a pro-China, pro-communism bias? Can you talk to him into removing this redirect? User:Sumple#Quote_of_the_moment which redirected "crazy people" to my userpage. Btw, good to know that you're still around, I'm not coming back though.--Certified.Gangsta 02:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Hope you change your mind, CG. Only the piped link was still on the userpage, that I could see. I've asked him to remove it. Bishonen | talk 10:01, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

If you want, I'll unprotect and reprotect, so it's my action he has to complain about. ⇒ SWATJester 11:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure you have the requsite number of braincells, Swat..? ;-) But, no, thanks, I don't at this time feel like pandering to the notion that there was something objectionable about my action. Thanks anyway. Bishonen | talk 11:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

That sockpuppet guy

User:Jsimlo, who was clearly using the sockpuppet User:Give it back a while ago, is now merrily having a conversation with the brand new anon IP account User:201.36.233.11 to try to establish "consensus" on Talk:Nonogram. Wheeee.... DreamGuy 06:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like you have enough reason for suspicion to put in a CheckUser request for all three. I think you should. You already know the contexts, and it seems unnecessary doubling of effort for me to get my head round it first. Best, Bishonen | talk 10:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

Shortage of images

You cleaned too much. I will fix for you. KillerChihuahua 11:57, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, that reminds me - my daughther reports she had wonderful meal in Paris, didn't eat a decent meal in all of Italy, and had her first good meal since Paris in Prague. Which rather goes against conventional wisdom, but its always luck of the draw when you're traveling, isn't it? KillerChihuahua 02:34, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

A snail got mugged by a couple of turtles. "What happened," the policeman asked. "I don't know," the snail replied, "it all happened so fast!" Geogre 13:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I know how he feels.... I'm getting old and creaky myself. *grin* KillerChihuahua 02:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

More available upon request. ;) Lsi john 01:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very very much for your message

You have spared me the agony of dealing further with her blatantly false and malicious accusations of disruption, bad faith, and edit warring.Ferrylodge 02:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

You're most welcome, I'm glad to have been spreading sunshine. Bishonen | talk 02:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

Now that I am unblocked and have taken some additional time beyond that 24-hour block period to consider this matter, I would like to follow a dispute resolution process. Misplaced Pages guidelines say: "When you are unblocked, you may then follow the dispute resolution process if you believe that you were treated unfairly."

One dispute resolution option is a "third opinion", but that does not seem appropriate here, because "The third-opinion process requires good faith on both sides of the dispute." My good faith in this matter has been reapetedly disputed, so I assume that a "third opinion" would not be appropriate here. Indeed, I was blocked by you immediately after saying, "I am glad to be done posting on this page," so it is clear that you dispute my good faith, and this is also evident from your remarks such as "leave KC the hell alone." Thus, a "third opinion" would not work here.

Another option, before I resort to arbitration, is mediation. However, mediation "cannot take place if all parties are not willing to take part." Therefore, I will assume you are not willing to take part, unless you provide some indication to the contrary.Ferrylodge 17:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

That's right, I'm not willing to take part in mediation with you. You don't want advice from me, I'm sure, but you can have it anyway: a request for arbitration isn't going to be accepted at this point. See how it says ""last resort"? Instead, the normal and accepted next step for you would be to file a request for comment, mentioned here. You can file an RFC about misuse of administrative tools (=my block button). Mind you, I think you'd be disappointed with the result, but don't take my word for it, ask someone else. Bishonen | talk 18:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Where should I place the request for comment?Ferrylodge 18:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. The guidelines say "at least two editors must have contacted the user on their talk page...." I am only one user. Therefore an RfC does not seem to be possible. Any advice on that?Ferrylodge 18:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Before filing an RFC, you may like to test the waters at little further at WP:ANI. The reaction that you get there may give you some indication of the way things will go at WP:RFC or WP:RFARB. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I may try WP:ANI. However, I would still like to know whether I must pursue an RfC in order to subsequently pursue an RFARB. An RfC seems to require more than one complaining party, whereas there is only one complaining party here.Ferrylodge 19:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Would you please advise me on that, Bishonen?Ferrylodge 19:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Look... the double role you're asking me to play here is a little weird. You could do with an experienced user to help you with the process, but it shouldn't be me. I was going to suggest the WP:AMA page, but I see it's inactive. OK, I suggest that you either ask Sandstein, since you've met him, or add the {{helpme}} template to your talkpage, and somebody will show up to advise you. And no, you don't need two people complaining, you just need a second person to endorse your complaint. You know, to agree that it has merit, and also to contact me and try to resolve the issue. (Perhaps you, ALoan?) Also, there's no formal requirement to do an RFC before an RFAR, you can go right ahead and request arbitration, if you like. It's certainly a simpler process than RFC. Bishonen | talk 19:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Endorse? Me? I was trying to suggest very gently that an RFC or RFARB would be wasting everyone's time (as, I believe, posting to ANI would demonstrate in short order). Go away and sin no more, y'know? Ho hum. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, Bishonen. Earlier today, you stated: "You don't want advice from me." Then when I ask your advice you say that it's "weird." I will ask for no more advice from you.

ALoan, your invitation to visit ANI so that I can be told to "go away" is an invitation that I will decline.Ferrylodge 20:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I had to read this three times, but I think Ferrylodge is asking for help with dispute resolution regarding the 'other' party, not with Bishonen. I think he was asking Bishonen to 'take part' in overseeing the mediation, not participating. Its muddy, but after I read it from that perspective, it seems that might be the case anyway. Then again, I've been wrong before. Lsi john 20:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

And you're wrong now. I am the other party. And also being asked to help. Bishonen | talk 21:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Then I go back to my initial reaction. I agree with you, it is just weird (and a bit extreme). At least it made some sense, if he was asking you to help mediate. It would be interesting to watch him edit in the LGAT or Scientology articles (or not). Lsi john 21:57, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is weird at Misplaced Pages to try and establish some minimal level of rapport, and to try and show some minimal level of respect. My apologies.Ferrylodge 22:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

(undent) I will pursue this matter as far as it can be pursued. After that pursuit has failed (and I have little doubt that ALoan is correct in saying that it will fail), then I may leave Misplaced Pages and I may not. But let me be clear about one thing: I do not take being called a liar lightly, and that is exactly what you have done, Bishonen. I was blocked by you immediately after saying, "I am glad to be done posting on this page," and you not only blocked me but warned me to "leave KC the hell alone." I am an honest man, and am not a liar.

For you to also accuse me of "harassment" at a Misplaced Pages page, and to insist that I not be able to leave the barest denial at that same Misplaced Pages page, is also contemptible. I do not know whether your "harassment" accusation will enter into my soon-to-be ill-fated arbitration request, but your "harassment" accusation was as ill-founded as your accusation of dishonesty. The facts are clear: Killerchihuahua explicitly said that the question of whether RCOG is a "pro-choice group" is a separate issue from whether RCOG has a "pro-choice position" on a particular issue. Subsequently, I made one single edit saying RCOG had a pro-choice position on a particular issue. Before I knew it, she was using that one single edit to accuse me of edit-warring and disruption and bad faith. And then you pounce.

Go ahead and delete this comment if you wish, but make no mistake. You have made a serious and extremely insulting accusation, and I intend to pursue this until the end, regardless of the outcome.Ferrylodge 21:07, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Lsi john suggests (at my talk page) that I explain to you precisely what I want, in hopes of avoiding unnecesary hoops. I have never planned to try to get your admin powers revoked, and have never demanded an apology from you. What I am looking for is an acknowledgment (e.g. from you or from an arbitration committee) that I was not harassing KC, and that I was not lying when I said at KC's talk page that I was "done posting on this page," and that I am an honest Wikipedian. I will, of course, assume that you decline to acknowledge any of those things, unless you indicate otherwise.Ferrylodge 03:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Ferrylodge,

1. I did NOT suggest you ask (yet). I suggested you read, and wait and cool off.
2. You probably should NOT assume things, and certainly not tell someone you assume they will disagree with you or that you assume they will or will not do something. Its bad form and tends to put people on edge.

Lsi john 03:42, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Lsi john, you said: "Cool off a bit. really, take a breath and relax. If you went into a court hearing the way you went to Bishonen's talk page, the judge would throw you out. Go read what you've written to Bishonen. Don't write anything else right now, just go read it. Put yourself in her place. Do you really ask her for anything? Perhaps I missed it. But to me, it looked like you went right for the throat and never even told her what you wanted to end up with." Maybe I did not follow or describe your suggestions as precisely as possible. I am not perfect, and I do appreciate your help here.

By the way, I never go into court. I just get the patents for the clients, and what they do with them is their business. Very often, I tell the clients that I will do thus-and-such unless I hear from them to the contrary. It's just a habit. It enables me to move along without waiting an eternity. I'm glad that you didn't have any substantive objection to anything but the last sentence of my previous comment.Ferrylodge 03:58, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

A nervous hello......

hi bish - as a user in good standing who has had some contact with me, i wonder if you'd mind having a look at the discussion on the talk page of the no personal attacks page - i'm feeling pretty bullied, and would value your advice (there, here, on my talk page, or anywhere!)

.....equally - the whole thing is a bit unhappy, so if you prefer to keep your wiki sky cloud free for the sake of sanity / serenity i'll understand if you don't want to engage.....

best wishes to you anyway, and take care! - Purples 04:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it might have all calmed down a little now, maybe i was overly sensitive to come to you - anyways, have a wonderful day.... Purples 04:48, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Purples, it's not the serenity (what? where?), it's that I should have already been asleep for some hours, I'm in a different timezone. Can't look at anything now. Tomorrow. Bishonen | talk 05:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC).

OK, I'm awake.., but I've been putting off reading all that stuff, sorry. It's the kind of subject I don't willingly get involved in—I just feel I have enough quarrels on my plate without that. But since you come to my page, I'll try to give you an answer, and sorry about the belatedness. I have to disagree with your removal of that section. That's because I think removing those famous links is current policy. I don't mean it's necessarily the consensus on the NPA talkpage that the section should be on the NPA page (I can't face reading through that talkpage), but that it's policy. Policy isn't words on a policy page, it's current practice, in particular admin practice. Those words on a page come after policy has already been established. And, yes, it is my impression, per ANI, that removing those links is what we currently do. While quarrelling about it, admittedly, and while linking a lot to that famous arbcom decision, which isn't really an appropriate authority (arbcom doesn't determine policy). But nevertheless that it's on the whole what we do. I'm sorry you're feeling bullied.

Reading... oh. I do see why you're feeling disparaged. Though I know exactly where SlimVirgin is coming from,, too. Darn. Seriously... I'm very sorry I've been so slow. I'm going to post a couple of sentences now. Bishonen | talk 00:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Thanks so much for your kind words... i think it really helped to avoid my editing situation derailing (or derailing further!) - you're very kind to help out, and it's appreciated - have a great day... Purples 04:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem, it's simply my opinion. Bishonen | talk 04:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Speedy delete, please

re: David Dotter Just back from a family gathering and found this page attached to an article on my watchlist. I believe such blatant self promotion would qualify for a speedy delete. Thanks for your help. Best....... WBardwin 01:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

What prompt action! Thank you. WBardwin 01:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

And when are you going to get your own delete button, W? Bishonen | talk 01:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Vendetta?

Thanks very much for the heads-up; that'll teach me to offer my expertise, such as it is! Mackensen (talk) 10:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes yes, but how many medals (...?) have you got? Bishonen | talk 14:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

..and you must remember Bishonen those "arguments wouldn't stand a chance in a university" Giano 15:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I used to think the guy was just the subject of discussion under a different name, but I now believe that this account, the Louder, is actually performance art. It is a sort of attempt at the eiron as fool, and it is up to everyone else to laugh at this Andy Kaufman-styled bit of humor. Utgard Loki 17:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

• Utgard, (I do love a man with a strong name) your wit is so intellectual sometimes I feel we are meant for each other. As I sit here having my coronet and shoes polished it fatigues me reading the Encyclopedia. I do so wonder though what on earth is happening. Naturally, as one would expect, I am besieged with people (mostly that Jimbo person) wanting me to record my memories, and of course I am still working on my own biography but what sort of people will read them? I will certainly not allowed them to be serialised by a Sunday Newspaper (I knew John Profumo and saw his winkle in his eye as he espied me in the Royal Enclosure, as as for the fun we had at Cliveden) - such happy and fulfilling days. My problem is if one is to write about one's nearest and most very dearest one does not want the riveting details read by the lower classes (all this anyone can edit business is very worying indeed) - does Misplaced Pages have some screening process to stop this affront. Of course I need a confidential copy-edit. There are so few editors here, from what I like to think of as "the right sort of people" (I would ask that nice little Mrs. Bishonen, (but between ourselves I suspect she is not 100% British) perhaps I'll ask that sweet General Bonkers (he has such an elegant turn of phrase ) or even Mr. Counter-Revulsion, although (he intimates he is a lawyer - very nasty almost trade!) or perhaps poor Sir William although he has enough troubles of his own having been so rudely redirected by that nasty Glaswegian doctor - I don't trust Doctors myself always wanting me to take my clothes off, I expect if he saw me that would be the first thing he would want - I've met his type before! So who does one ask - good editors are so few on the ground that clever Mr. Mackensen is so busy running the place, someone suggested an American personage called Brad but what sort of a name is "Brad" <shudder> for a gentleman? and all those "medals", which he likes to expose upfront, so very vulgar! Ms. Martin (she says she is inactive, poor old thing, some mornings I know how she feels) and Mr. Sidebottom ("Tone" as he like me to call him in moments of intimacy) again an obvious choice but always so busy - I suppose I have no choice - it has to be that frightfully grand Sicilian person but at my age my knees find curtsying such a problem - Oh do someone help me out. Lord Wetman keeps himself very above this kind of thing, I wonder what happened to that nice very English Member of the Peerage always such a true gentleman, if he only knew of my distress - Oh the British if only one could rely on them to come to the rescue - a damsel could be saved. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 19:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

What's more, one wonders about the sort of argument that would stand at a university! I read recently of a large bequest grandfather made being used to endow a chair for some woman writing about "Lesbian self-discovery in the body of Jane Austen." Jane Austen's body surely never suffered such an affront before, and I can think of nothing she did to ever earn it. If that is the sort of thing that he wishes, then we shall have no more to do with it! -- Viscount Thomas Buckingham, Mrs.

• Excuse me ladies! I cannot believe Doc Glasgow would wish to undress Lady Catherine, and when addressing me there is no need to curtsey, a small genuflection is sufficient. Regarding Ms Austen: While, I believe though she did rather portray Lady Catherine as a nasty old trout - I doubt she knew what a lesbian was. Giano 20:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Vendetta - that's when you go to gaol for bankrupting your legal circles? :p