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{{Calm talk}} --Timeshifter 01:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello Timeshifter! Welcome to Misplaced Pages!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

• If you haven't already, please add your name to the new user log to let others know a little about yourself.
• Read the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the Sandbox.
• Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
• If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.
• Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!
Ann Heneghan 23:19, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes). You should always sign talk pages (also called "discussion" pages), but not articles.

New Pro-cannabis userbox

This user is pro-cannabis.

If you would like to have this on your userpage, just add {{User:Disavian/Userboxes/pro-cannabis}} to your userpage, and the box at right will appear on it. Also, if used in your user space, the page will be listed on Category:Pro-cannabis Wikipedians. If you would like to share it with someone else, type {{User:Disavian/Userboxes/pro-cannabis|stamp|right}}

Also, consider weighing in on the Misplaced Pages:Userbox policy poll.

Stand up and be counted while you still can,

StrangerInParadise 16:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Incarceration rates worldwide.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Incarceration rates worldwide.gif. Misplaced Pages gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Misplaced Pages, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 01:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The image is in the public domain. The November Coalition statistical graphs page says "These graphs are in the public domain." Near the bottom of the page. http://november.org/graphs - It seems there is currently no suitable category in the drop-down menu of the wikipedia image uploading page for this. Someone else had the same problem. See here. They were told it was OK, and to put the template {{PD-release}} on the image page. --Timeshifter 01:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Incarceration

Thanks for your intervention. I don't think this is as serious as it might initially appear because it only happened, I believe, because an image link had two external links in it, which is very unusual. I've always been impressed with AWB's ability to deal with nested ]] and ], I will pass this detail on to the developers. I will also scan for other occurrences to check for other errors. Thanks again. Rich Farmbrough 09:13 28 August 2006 (GMT).

Yep, I found, I think, about 24 articles with two or more nested s, only a few had ISBNs, so I was able to ensure the problem did not re-occur for this project. And of course programmers count "0, 1, many" so I hope that AWB will be made perfect soon! Any comments to my talk page please. Rich Farmbrough 11:06 31 August 2006 (GMT).

You said also that Smackbot caused the image not to show up due to 2 external links being in an image caption. One of the links was at the end of a caption. ISBNs were not a part of this particular problem. But are you saying that 24 images did not show up after that run of Smackbot? And has the problem been fixed? I need to know whether I can put 2 external links in a caption, especially if one link is at the end of the caption where the brackets stack up and confuse the bot. What about 3 or 4 external links in a caption? Does the problem only occur if one of the links is at the end of the image caption? --Timeshifter 19:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

No I forget the details, but I think one other article had been broken, possibly. The problem with the tool has been fixed Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser#Nested_square_brackets_bug by the main developer and author of the tool, so apart from people using old versions, which won't last long (the tool itself will insist on being updated), you should be fine to put what you like. In fact you shouldn't worry too much anyway because it's easy to roll back an edit if needed. Rich Farmbrough 20:28 31 August 2006 (GMT).

Thanks. It looks like the problem has been fixed. The other note about it here on the same page says that the problem was occuring with just one external link in the caption too, if the link was at the end of the caption. But it has been fixed in any case.--Timeshifter 11:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Photo from sr: wiki

Yes, photo was taken in Belgrade, and it is Global Million Marijuana March first in Belgrade in 2005. Correct month i don't know but i can ask user who send that image about that. Licence for image is GFDL. --SasaStefanovic • 19:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I just find out that MMM was held in May 7 2005 in Belgrade and that there was about 50 participants. --SasaStefanovic • 19:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Iraq War infobox

Hey Timeshifter, sorry to be such a pain on the Iraq civ cas. I'm just trying to keep the infobox from becoming so long as to be unhelpful. Good edits to the Iraq civil cas, tho--very necessary and I'm glad there's finally someone who's making sure they're up-to-date. Publicus 20:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Were you the one who did all those great edits (such as mentioning where to get the info) for the Iraq casualties? If so, good work. Czolgolz 03:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

thanks. I added some additional links to several Iraq casualty pages, and the casualty section of the infobox on the Iraq War page. Also added some links, and some more hidden notes with links, for the template page: Template:Summary of casualties of the 2003 invasion of Iraq --Timeshifter 03:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Iraq War, Image stacking

Can you descibe the problem you were having with "image stacking"? I never heard of this before and now the article isnt formatted around the picture, almost making it better to just remove the image for sake of layout and design. --NuclearZer0 13:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Iraq Body Count project

We cannot semi-protect a page to stop an edit war. If you are having problems you need to check out our dispute resolution process. Have a look at Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes. Thanks—— Eagle (ask me for help) 18:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to ask me questions on my talk page.

--Timeshifter 19:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC). I have moved the anonymous editor's comment to the discussion page for the Iraq Body Count project article. This way other editors of the page can comment also. IBC discussion page:

• Talk:Iraq_Body_Count_project#Discussion_about_anonymous_blanking --Timeshifter 19:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Taba Summit

Hello Timeshifter, I'm just letting you know that you are in danger of violating the WP:3RR policy on Taba summit. If you revert one more time you could be blocked from editing wikipedia.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 06:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I did not revert. Your edit comment after deleting a whole section of a wikipedia page was "rv OR , we can not add controversial and unsourced material because you seem to think it is 'common knowledge')". By the way that section was written by several people, not just me. I first deleted the more controversial material since it was already covered by another wikipedia page. I added "citation needed" tags. You didn't like that and insisted on deleting the remaining part of that section. So I added the reference links you requested. I added quotes, too. So I don't see how you can claim original research now. See the revision difference between when you requested sourced material, and my addition of it. You then deleted the requested sourced material that you asked for. You just blanked that whole section in violation of the wikipedia policy on vandalism: WP:VANDAL. See talk page at Taba summit before blanking again. --Timeshifter 06:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Your later edit comment was: "removing pov, your sources do not support your conclusion so this is still OR." There was no conclusion made after I added the sourced material. The section then consisted only of quotes with sources. But to further clarify I just added this sentence to the top of that section: "The issue of who ended the negotiations is disputed. There is no consensus. Here are some perspectives:" Feel free to add more perspectives. --Timeshifter 07:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Adding citation requested tags does not give a green light to add original research. Furthermore, the references you added did not support the larger argument of the section, when you use references to prove a novel conclusion it is considered original research. It is a difficult policy to understand, I also had a lot of trouble with it when I first began editing wikipedia. Also, please do not accuse others of vandalism when it is obvious that it is not the case.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 10:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

There was no conclusion made after I deleted all the previous info in that section and only put quotes with references for them. Show me the conclusions in my last revision. BlueDome also asked the same thing on the talk page: "The section starts with 'The issue of who ended the negotiations is disputed. There is no consensus. Here are some perspectives:' I do not see other conclusions, what are you referring to?" And you have not discussed anything at all on the Taba summit talk page yet. --Timeshifter 22:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

--Timeshifter 05:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC). Here below is my last revision of the section "Who ended the peace negotiations?" I had deleted all that was there previously. So there was nothing there from when you blanked the whole section. You did not blank this revision below. Amoruso did, though. 3 times in 24 hours. I pulled out and indented the reference links below, and put them in parentheses, so that people can see and follow them.

---

The issue of who ended the negotiations is disputed. There is no consensus. Here are some perspectives:

-

Uri Avnery of the Israeli peace group Gush Shalom wrote : "It was not Arafat who broke off the talks at this critical moment, when the light at the end of the tunnel was clearly visible to the negotiators, but Barak. He ordered his men to break off and return home."

("Politicus Interruptus". By Uri Avnery. Gush Shalom. Feb. 23, 2002.)

-

A PBS page has this:

But they had run out of political time. They couldn't conclude an agreement with Clinton now out of office and Barak standing for reelection in two weeks. "We made progress, substantial progress. We are closer than ever to the possibility of striking a final deal," said Shlomo Ben-Ami, Israel's negotiator. Saeb Erekat, Palestinian chief negotiator, said, "My heart aches because I know we were so close. We need six more weeks to conclude the drafting of the agreement."

("frontline: shattered dreams of peace: the negotiations | PBS".)

-

From the Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture David Matz writes concerning a joint statement :

The Taba negotiation began on Sunday evening, January 21, and ended on Saturday afternoon, January 27 . At the closing press conference, the parties issued this joint statement: “The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli election.”

("Trying to Understand the Taba Talks". By David Matz. Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture. Vol.10 No.3 2003.)

-

--- --Timeshifter 05:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Regarding reversions made on December 03, 2006 to Taba Summit article

— Nearly Headless Nick 12:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverting blanking vandalism can be done as many times as necessary according to WP:VANDAL. The only question is whether it is blanking vandalism or not. Amoruso was not engaging in any discussion on the talk page, so it is blanking vandalism. I think you should be blocking him not me. In fact I request a block of Amoruso and Leifern since they are tag-teaming in their blanking vandalism. I went through all the blanking warning templates up to the final warning. According to Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism I followed all the instructions necessary to make this request. Leifern took over for Amoruso and is not replying in substance to BlueDome. And Leifern is blanking still without resolving anything in discussion first. That is the polite thing to do. Talk first, and then make changes, before resorting to blanking first, and then non-substantial discussion later. --Timeshifter 22:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone else is blanking that section without discussion on the talk page. Tewfik blanked what BlueDome put up in that section. I believe this comes under some kind of complex vandalism guideline. The "complex" link on WP:VANDAL goes to this page: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_investigation. --Timeshifter 22:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I just checked the edit history again. Amoruso started the reverting of the completely new material in that section in question. There was nothing old remaining in that section after I replaced it. At that point no one had reverted anything 3 times in 24 hours. And Moshe did not revert that completely new section. It seems the blanking baton was passed to Amoruso. Amoruso was the first person to revert 3 times. It seems that his use of the word "non encyclopedic" in an edit comment, and on the article talk page, swayed your judgement more than my honest attempts at discussion on the talk page, and my use of the official blanking templates on the article talk page and on Amoruso's user talk page. I also mentioned the blanking in my edit comments. I think you blocked the wrong person. And I am appealing for a ruling from other administrators on this. The use of the phrase "non encyclopedic" should not give license to Amoruso to blank 3 times in a row. His edit comments also said "3RR" and "4RR", which were inaccurate. So I humbly say to you, Nearly Headless Nick, or Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington, I think you have been fooled. Amoruso first reverted the new material in that section. Then he reverted it 2 more times. His 3rd time was the time where he left the edit comment "4RR". When I reverted just after that it was my third time. That I admit to. But I thought reverting obvious vandalism allowed breaking the 3RR rule. From the WP:VANDAL page:

Blanking. Removing all or significant parts of articles (sometimes replacing the removed content with profanities) is a common vandal edit. However, significant content removals are usually not considered to be vandalism where the reason for the removal of the content is readily apparent by examination of the content itself, or where a non-frivolous explanation for the removal of apparently legitimate content is provided, linked to, or referenced in an edit summary. Due to the possibility of unexplained good-faith content removal, template:test1a or template:blank, as appropriate, should normally be used as initial warnings for ordinary content removals not involving any circumstances that would merit stronger warnings.

I believe a 2-word "non encyclopedic" edit comment, and talk page comment, is frivolous. And since Amoruso first broke the 3RR rule, I ask that he also be blocked for 24 hours, as I have been blocked. --Timeshifter 00:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

On checking the Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR page again I find this: "If you violate the three revert rule, after your fourth revert in 24 hours sysops may block you for up to 24 hours. In cases where multiple parties violate the rule, sysops should treat all sides equally." I had not done a 4th revert. See the edit history and the above notes to see why. Amoruso had 3 reverts first, and then I followed with a 3rd revert. As I said above, I honestly thought Amoruso was engaged in simple blanking vandalism. He still hasn't really engaged on the talk page with anyone, including someone named BlueDome. BlueDome is not me, by the way. It seems there is a new series of blanking vandalism going on by Tewfik. I am not a part of that fight since I am blocked. Tewfik has not justified his blanking at all on the talk page. And it seems Leifern is not engaging honestly with BlueDome on the talk page. There are no conclusions as claimed by Leifern. See what I last had in the blanked section. It is posted higher up in reply to Moshe. Or go to this revision difference. --Timeshifter 19:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

---

It seems I am being blocked past the 24 hour period. When I try to edit pages I get a message that says I am autoblocked, and that to get unblocked I should put this template below on the bottom of my user page. --Timeshifter 18:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Autoblock lifted. It happened because you tried to edit while you were blocked. Tsk tsk... -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Buried deep on another page is something about 24-hour autoblocking starting when one tries to edit a page while blocked. If one has never been blocked before, then one does not know that one can't edit a page until one tries to edit a page. So then one reads their user page and finds out that they are blocked for a period of time. In my case for 24 hours. Then I come back after that 24-hour period and find that I am still blocked. Only by much searching through many wikipedia pages does one learn of this secondary autoblock that extends past the first 24 hour block. This is a great way for a blanking team to discourage people and info they dislike from getting on certain pages. Get a blocking newbie like me (with around a thousand edits and very few complaints against me) to revert their blanking vandalism 3 times in 24 hours, and then have to run this gauntlet of unintended (on wikipedia's part) harassment. It is time to change the autoblocking system so that people know they are being blocked for more time beyond what the block states on one's user page. Also, the sections defining simple vandalism need to be rewritten so that it is clear that blanking is not really considered simple vandalism that can be reverted many times in a day just as graffiti can be reverted as often as necessary. Blanking vandalism has to go through the warning template system, but spread out beyond the 24 hour period in order to avoid 3RR traps. Any editor can feel free to copy this info from my user page and use it in discussion concerning clarifying some of these wikipedia policies. --Timeshifter 20:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, don't take my comment too seriously... :-) I know, the autoblock functionality is messy - it's actually quite difficult to understand for us admins too... Does the system really not tell you you're blocked before you try to edit? I didn't know that. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for unblocking the autoblock. Yes, it is true that one does not know that one can't edit until one tries to edit. There is a "new message" note, but when one gets new messages one can ignore reading it temporarily if one wants to check some ongoing wikipedia projects. When one finally goes to read the new message and finds the block it doesn't say anything about the block being extended if one clicks on an edit button. It just says you can't edit. Anybody with simple curiosity will want to see what happens when one clicks an edit button. It says you can't edit, but does not say that your block was just extended further for clicking an edit button. Then one goes to find out where one can complain if one feels wronged by the block. As I did. I went to the admin's talk page and tried to leave a note there. I clicked that edit button to try to leave a note. No luck there. Then I went to my user talk page figuring that would be the last place to be blocked and I was right. I could click that edit button, and could edit that page. I suggest noting the autoblock timing in the same block log as the original block. I also suggest some text there explaining that the block will be extended if one tries to edit anything except one's user talk page. --Timeshifter 20:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... Maybe this is something we ought to bring to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical). If it should be changed, it would have to be done by the developers. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Your edits at Fascism as an international phenomenon

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. At any rate please do not do more than three reverts in a 24h period. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. Jkelly 19:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

You have exactly one edit on that page. That edit was to remove a large section of it. That is called blanking. The 3RR rule applies to you, too. I could put the blanking warning template on your user page, but you get my point. --Timeshifter 19:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi. The distinction between a vandal's blanking and the removal of text designed to push a fringe point of view is not a particularly subtle one. I strongly suggest that you ask yourself what your goal is in edit warring and if your current approach is going to get you what you want. Misplaced Pages works on the basis of discussion and consensus. You may be able to maintain the article on your preferred version over the short term, but reverting every edit you disagree with is just going to lead to long term problems for you on this website. You should take the time to read our content and behaviour policies and determine whether or not you can agree to abide by them. Jkelly 20:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

You should follow your own advice. I don't blank. I edit. I rarely delete sourced material. You deleted a lot of material. Several people contributed the info and links for that section. I was only the most recent person, and I added very little to that section. Ronald Reagan is not marginal: "Reagan says many New Dealers wanted fascism." New York Times. December 22, 1981. I don't agree with that viewpoint, but I don't delete viewpoints I disagree with. --Timeshifter 20:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I strongly advise everyone to keep a cool head in this debate, and avoid duplicating material between articles. Currently, the same text about corporatism and the New Deal can be found in three different articles (Fascism as an international phenomenon, Fascism and ideology, and Corporatism). This is obviously a highly undesirable situation. Since we seem to be unable to decide which article to put the text in, I suggest working on a completely new article, The New Deal and corporatism. -- Nikodemos 23:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The Herald disambig merger proposal

I've proposed merging one disambiguation page (The Herald) into another (Herald (disambiguation)), and making the previous page a redirect to the latter. This way all related articles can be located using one disambiguation page. An alternative idea is to keep both, and include some form of "see also" notice on each page. I noticed you've made significant contributions to the the former, so any input is appreciated. -Tobogganoggin talk 00:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to merge them as you described. I also responded here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Herald_%28disambiguation%29 --Timeshifter 18:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Please join Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict

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This template has been replaced by Module:WikiProject banner

{{WikiProjectNotice|Arab-Israeli conflict}}

The above code (without the underlying "NoWiki" tags) produces the banner above the code. Feel free to use the above code on relevant article talk pages. --Timeshifter 15:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Cberlet

I made a report about his personal attacks here, if you wish to add something feel free. -- Vision Thing -- 12:15, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I left a comment there. --Timeshifter 13:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Nominated War Corporatism for deletion

Check the page for links to the discussion--Cberlet 20:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Our mutual friend

Have a look at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility, disruptive editing, and stalking-like behavior from Isarig. What do you think? Abu ali 20:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I went to the noticeboard you linked to, and I read the discussion there. I left a similar comment there. I do not know much about those incidents. I personally have not had any problems with Isarig. There were some disputes between Isarig and others on the talk page for Al-Aqsa Intifada. There were disputes between many people on that talk page. But it seems like the disputes have been resolved in the last few days. I think, though, that part of the problem I am feeling from reading the incident noticeboard, and on other pages, is that people are taking sides, instead of attempting to maintain NPOV wikipedia pages. I urge people who have strong viewpoints about the issues on such highly-charged topics dealing with the Arab-Israeli conflicts to set them aside while editing wikipedia pages. I hope people from all sides of these issues sign on to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict and pledge to work on related wikipedia pages in an NPOV way. NPOV does not favor or block viewpoints on the Arab-Israeli conflict pages. NPOV allows all significant sourced viewpoints to be put on those pages. Some people have been favoring particular POVs by selectively censoring or diminishing other sourced viewpoints. --Timeshifter 00:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Iraq war

In past discussion, a majority of users opposed the use of the phrase "Part of the War on Terrorism" subtitle into the infobox on the page. Nonetheless, Rangeley has repeatedly re-inserted it. I'm hesistant to just remove it myself again-- I know you've looked the situation over-- could you remove it if you feel it is appropriate to do so? --Alecmconroy 17:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

We should allow more discussion first, and more comments from others. --Timeshifter 19:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Lancet

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Lancet surveys of mortality before and after the 2003 invasion of Iraq. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you.

You were also warned of a possible 3RR violation on the article talk page. 74.73.39.219 13:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Blocked for breach of 3RR on Lancet surveys of mortality before and after the 2003 invasion of Iraq

The duration of the block is 48 hours. — Nearly Headless Nick 14:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. I guess the person who reports a 3RR violation should only report the last 4 diffs, and not be the person making the last reversion. I get it now. The previous admin William M. Connolley who blocked the other editor at the same article page did not seem to be blocking those reporting the 3RR violations. He seemed to be only blocking those being reported as breaching 3RR.

I saw multiple examples of people reported with more than 4 reversions in 24 hours. That of course means that both parties breached 4RR in 24 hours. But I can see the logic in both admin methods. But it is not consistent and discourages people from stopping vandalism. But I am happy to sacrifice 48 hours of wikipedia editing time in order to stop vandalism. I have successfully got this vandal blocked twice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:74.64.60.148

http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:74.73.39.219

Also, autoblock may still be screwed up. When one clicks on the user page links such as the ones linked from the above user talk pages, then one can be given another autoblock even though one is not trying to edit. I assume that is still true. I can not tell. One is just trying to read the user page. But Misplaced Pages interprets all visits to empty IP user pages as attempts to edit. What purpose does autoblocking serve exactly?

Misplaced Pages's blocking, autoblocking and 3RR policies are designed to reward vandals and discourage people trying to stop vandals. The autoblock can double blocking time even if the blocked person is not trying to edit pages. And what difference does it make? They can not edit anyway so what difference does it make if they click edit buttons. It is arbitrary, abusive, and stupid throwing around of power. What is that phrase about "Power corrupts." It explains why so many wikipedia pages are being vandalized, and remaining vandalized. Few want to navigate Misplaced Pages's enforcement methods, and the minefield of changing admins, with differing interpretations of the rules, and mean-spirited enforcement.

Am I the only one who gets this? Are admins becoming clueless overall, and following blindly the deteriorating, illogical, enforcement rules and boards? Is Jimbo Wales watching over the admin herd anymore? Are wikipedia guidelines mere verbiage blindly overseen by admins who don't really give a damn anymore about consistent logical enforcement of rules? As opposed to arbitrary, capricious enforcement. Or do admins themselves also not have any power to make things more logical? Surely some admins can get together as a group and respond to these problems.

I think the lack of ad money is what is killing wikipedia, because there is a dire need for more paid staff to oversee the admins. Admins are heroes but there needs to be consistent oversight of admins, guidelines and enforcement. Only money can provide such oversight. Because who else but paid staff could put in the necessary hours to do this admin oversight well. See my user page for more info. --Timeshifter 16:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Iraq war

Timeshifter-- let me caution you about edits like this one . I know when things get heated, it's easy to get into a sort of "fight or flight" mindset where it's easy to act quickly towards anyone who opposes you-- but let me say, Theron edit seems to be a good faith attempt at a compromise, so-- if you're not comfortable with the compromise, probably best to talk first revert later. And if you do revert, best to do so politely, making sure to acknowledge the good-faith of the editor who made it-- so, for example, you mention this was the 2nd edit Theron's made in a while-- but that's okay-- he doesn't have to be a regular contributor-- if anything, we want more eyeballs. :)

Anyway, just a friendly suggestion. Thank you so much for your help on the article, Time!-- this would have been a very lonely and scary process without your support :). --Alecmconroy 22:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

You are probably right. It would be better if I had discussed it first on the talkpage. So should have TheronJ for that matter. But I have to disagree about it being a compromise though. It is basically the same as what it all started out as... Quotes around WOT: "War on Terrorism". But I could have said that on the talk page. You might want to do that on the talk page yourself. I may not get back to wikipedia work for a few hours. --Timeshifter 06:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Image:IraqiWarDeaths.gif

You had a couple of questions about this infographic.

-The Iraq Body Count and Bush/US Military figures were nearly identical at the time, hence the two smaller grey maps appearing equal. The maps were created by numerically scaling a vector graphic of Iraq made up of 1x1 squares in 3D software package Animation:Master. Unless I subsequently made a mistake assembling the three versions in Photoshop, both grey maps should be slightly different, owing to Iraq Body Count being less vague. I'll double check this.

-The breakdown of Men/Women/Children/Elderly is based on a table in the Lancet II study. Men and Women are not double counted in either the Children of Elderly category. I don't off the top of my head recall the age cutoff for each though. (Since the Elderly category required a fourth color and silhouette, I would have liked to roll it into Men and Women, but I wasn't able to find the numbers.)

I should also say that "1 per pixel" is not perfectly accurate. Since I used squares, the large map may be up to a few hundred pixels off due to rounding errors. The smaller two will also be slightly off. I would like to revise it eventually, but since the rounding errors are still well within the margins of error of the three estimates, I'm not losing sleep over it. Replacing the squares with slight parallelograms and scaling X and Y asymmetrically should return much more accurate -- possibly 100% pixel accurate -- results. Always more to do...

(I typically only make light edits on Misplaced Pages, so I hope I'm responding in the correct manner here.)

{SpaceToast 01:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)}

Thanks for the reply to my note on your user talk page. I replied on the article talk page. --Timeshifter 18:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

For Work on Iraq War "Part of WOT" phrasing

Barnstar of Diligence

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For diligence on the Iraq War subtitle debate and for helping solve a very tough issue. Also, nice work on keeping everyone(myself included) honest on the various casualties sections. Nicely done. Publicus 21:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

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		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		For remaining cool and encouraging others to do so, while retaining editorial integrity and passionately advoacting for the truth (all POVs) to be presented :) Tiamut 10:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

An honest suggestion

I've seen your edits on Alleged human rights violations by Israel during Al-Aqsa Intifada. I myself was dissappointed when an AfD that showed "no concensus" was used to delete the article.

I've been through the stage you are going and have had articles created by me deleted. However, what I did is post the material from the article somewhere else. I suggest you do the same. The best way to make progress is to leave the article as a redirect. Begin mass-merging the content of the article into Al-Aqsa intifada. No one can blame you since you are doing something endorsed by the AfD. If and when the article becomes really long, the content will be moved back to this article.Bless sins 20:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice and experience! Tewfik and others are blocking the material from being merged into Al-Aqsa intifada. Do you have any ideas on where to put the material? Here are the links to the material depending on the current name:

Accusations against Israel of war crimes during the Al-Aqsa Intifada (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Allegations against Israel of war crimes during the Al-Aqsa Intifada‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Alleged human rights violations by Israel during Al-Aqsa Intifada (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

In effect I tried to put the material in a new location by changing the name of the article to Alleged human rights violations by Israel during Al-Aqsa Intifada. But that does not seem to make Tewfik and others happy. Maybe you can create an article called Alleged human rights violations by Israel? Are there any articles already on wikipedia that focus on Israel's human rights violations? Where else can we put the material? If we can not find a place I may take this up at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

The only thing I can find is some info here:

Human rights in Israel#Israel's record: human rights in the occupied territories

The article that Tewfik keeps deleting (in spite of the AFD that he initiated and lost) has much more info. With many reference links. There really is a need for a separate article on Israel's human rights violations. There are several articles on human rights violations by Palestinians. I think we need an article titled something like

Alleged human rights violations by Israel in Palestinian territories.

Or maybe a more general article:

Human Rights under Israeli Occupation

The disappearing article can be found here:

User:Timeshifter/Al-Aqsa Intifada Archive. Old page

When I have time I may keep converting the links to reference links there. That way the relevant sourced info can be copied to the appropriate wikipedia pages.--Timeshifter 00:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Another possibility is creating a more general human rights article titled

Human Rights in the Palestinian territories

There is an overall article titled Palestinian territories

It is not possible to move the material here: Human rights in the Palestinian National Authority. That page does not cover human rights violations by Israeli occupation. For more info see

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict --Timeshifter 22:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Please join this mediation

I think this is the only way to find some way through this contentious and endless debate: Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/National Socialism Please agree to this mediation.--Cberlet 16:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't currently edit on any of the pages listed except

The New Deal and corporatism

The reason I edited on any of the other pages in the past was to aid in keeping material on corporatism. That material has since been moved to The New Deal and corporatism. I don't see any need for mediation on that page. I am not interested in editing on the other pages. So whatever happens on those other pages is not of interest to me. --Timeshifter 03:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I am going to argue that the page The New Deal and corporatism is POV and biased towards obscure marginal views, and that it needs a disclaimer that many of the cites are to idiosyncratic views not shared by most major scholars. I think you need to participate in the collaborative construction of a solution to this longstanding debate.--Cberlet 04:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I have never edited on the first 6 pages listed (the national socialism pages, nazism, socialism, collectivism). I don't currently edit on any of the pages listed except The New Deal and corporatism. I have no interest in editing on any of the pages listed except that one. You need to go through the normal dispute resolution process for The New Deal and corporatism. The other editors on that page have no problems with my edits on that page. --Timeshifter 04:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

cannabis wikia

thanx dude! both on information and on pro-cannabis banner. --Mladifilozof 14:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

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Recognizing your hard work

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For your efforts at organizing regional maps in the commons and your patience in explaining those effortsTiamut 22:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:Million Marijuana March.jpg

Hello. I put this image to pl:Million marijuana march, but I can`t answer for your questions, but I don`t know it. I found it on commons. I look to history of this file. Commons user FlickrLickr uploaded it, when you can ask he.--pl:Witek1988 19:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Comparison of wiki farms

Hi. Thanks for adding the better coding for the table. Someone had added the "sortable" code earlier, but that caused the internal grid lines in the table to disappear. I had been trying other code to fix it, but with limited success. Your addition/substitution of

class="sortable wikitable"

fixed several problems. The grid lines are not as dark. They are now gray. That looks better. Also, the last column now has grid lines, too. The background of blank cells is now gray, instead of white. That looks better.

I used the code to fix the tables here:

• Comparison of raster graphics editors --Timeshifter 04:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the "wikitable" class is the standard for these sorts of tables across the project and gives, as you observed, grid lines and borders in a colour that matches the rest of the interface. What I imagine happened is that someone replaced class="wikitable" with class="sortable", not realizing that it is possible to use more than one class at once as I have done. (Another example is class="messagebox standard-talk" used on talk page templates, where the "messagebox" part gives it a border, centers it and makes it 80% of the width of the screen, while the "standard-talk" part gives it the orange-brown color) – Qxz 04:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

GIF vs PNG

Thanks for the comments about Image:Israel.png. I agree with your comments about PNG (SVG is even worse!). As far as my very limited understanding goes, the scaling is done automatically on the server and cached after the first initial use of a particular scaled size. I assume that the file size problem is caused by the scaling script - presumably it's not optimising the image sufficiently. However, the decision has been made to use PNG rather than GIF, and I suspect that the remaining GIFs will probably be phased out in due course. -- ChrisO 08:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:Image:Palestine election map.PNG

There is one image in the category, and adding other categories to this one doesn't change that there are too many categories for minimal content which only leads to confusion and difficulty finding information. Tewfik 05:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

As I said there are more images in the subcategories. Also, I just found many more uncategorized images that belong in the top level of the category. I am adding them now.--Timeshifter 05:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Adding the categories doesn't make their pictures necessarily belong, just as the new ones don't belong (they are maps of Israel, not of other areas that also appear). Please keep ease of use in mind here. Tewfik 05:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

See how wikimedia commons categorizes these maps:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/Category:Maps_of_the_Palestinian_territories --Timeshifter 05:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I originally said that I wasn't interested in recreating the Commons' mistakes here. That you've decided to categorise even more images on the Commons and then use that as proof for why we should categorise that way here doesn't strengthen your argument. Tewfik 05:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Most of the images on the commons were already categorized in their present categories before I started categorizing them.

Many of the images belong in both of these categories:

Category:Maps of Israel

Category:Maps of the Palestinian territories

Where applicable the images are put in both categories. --Timeshifter 05:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't see any map there that should be categorised as both. They are maps of Israel, focused on Israel, and including information relevant to Israel. Categorising them as anything else is not accurate, in addition to adding a level of confusion by creating layers of contentless categories. Consider that a map of France wouldn't be labelled as a "map of Andorra", even though that whole state is undoubtedly displayed. Tewfik 05:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Maps often cover more than one nation or territory. So both wikimedia commons and wikipedia have a long history of categorizing maps in multiple categories. As far as I know none of the categories are contentless. --Timeshifter 06:00, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to be more clear. Those are maps of Israel. That is their focus and title. A map of Italy is not a map of the Vatican or San Marino. A map of South Africa is not a map of Lesotho or Swaziland. And I meant contentless save for the one appropriate map. Tewfik 06:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Maps are given various names by their uploaders. The maps are then used by other people on many different wikipedia pages. Those wikipedia pages concern different nations and territories. Thus the maps are categorized under multiple nation and territory categories. The maps are not owned by the original uploader, nor by the name the original uploader applies to the map. Oftentimes the uploader only puts the name of one nation in the image name. There is not room to put all the nation and territory names. It would make the image name too long. Category content includes the subcategories, too. --Timeshifter 06:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not talking about filenames, but about the actual images. They deal with a specific topic, and not with others. Tewfik 06:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I am talking about both the filenames and the maps. The maps cover multiple nations and territories, and not just one nation or topic. --Timeshifter 06:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

This is going in a circle. I hope my objection is clear, perhaps reread it. I'm not sure I understood your latest reply, but I don't think that you've said something different there. Try to categorise some other regions like you're trying to here and see what happens. Tewfik 06:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Your objection is clear to me. But it goes against a long history of wikipedia and wikimedia map categorization. I have been categorizing many maps. From other regions, too. As far as I remember I have had only 2 complaints. I went along with the other complaint. I disagree with your complaint. --Timeshifter 07:03, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "a long history of wikipedia and wikimedia map categorization", but I have never seen a map categorised as something that it isn't; if it was, it shouldn't have been. Tewfik 07:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Look at

http://commons.wikimedia.org/Category:Maps

http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Maps

You will see that maps are often categorized under multiple categories representing the nations and territories covered by the map. --Timeshifter 07:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Where maps show Israel and the Palestinian territories at an equivalent level of detail, as Image:Israel.png does, they should be listed in both categories. Where either Israel or the territories are shown only as an outline, as in Image:Cia-is-map2.gif, then I agree that they should only be shown in one category. I've used those criteria to categorise those particular maps on the Commons. -- ChrisO 15:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I am in agreement. --Timeshifter 15:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Common's categories

It seems like there is a dispute going on here as to the acceptability of these categories. While I've got an opinion on the matter, it is not a strong one, and I am trying to avoid getting in to this dispute. What I have a srong opinion on is simply that we should not speedy delete categories on en: if doing so will leave red-linked categories on other pages, and thats about it. Category talk pages and if it comes to it WP:CFD is the approriate venue to discuss this. Thanks, — xaosflux 15:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

--Timeshifter 18:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC). Thanks for the link to WP:CFD. I followed the other category-related administration links from there also. I found the helpful info below from this page: Misplaced Pages:Category deletion policy#Speedy delete policy

• Empty categories (no articles or subcategories for at least 72 hours) whose only content has consisted of links to parent categories.

• This does NOT apply to categories listed on WP:CFD, as the discussion may merit renaming or prompt population.
• Caution: Be sure to check the history of the category. If it has a non-trivial history or isn't relatively new, it is likely that the category once did contain articles, and deeper investigation is needed before deleting the category to make sure that it wasn't emptied just to bypass WP:CFD.

--Timeshifter 18:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC). The categories that Tewfik tried to get speedy-deleted all had images in them until he removed those images. That requires deeper investigation because the removal of those images will not show up in the history. There was/is some info though about the images in the discussion pages of some of the categories. Another admin has locked an image he uploaded to keep Tewfik and others from removing the image from the category.

I believe a category was temporarily speedy-deleted mistakenly even though it had subcategories in it. If one looks at Category:Maps and Category:Maps by country one sees that there are many categories that are only populated by subcategories. But the usefulness of these many wikipedia categories is obvious. Because they nearly all link to the commons also. So this is how editors find both wikipedia maps and wikimedia commons maps. Many wikipedia map categories also are populated by the English-language maps stored at the commons. This is done by adding a category link to the wikipedia page for the commons image. The image is still stored on the commons. But the wikipedia page lists all the wikipedia pages that are using the commons image. It is a very useful tool.

Here is some relevant info I posted in other talk pages:

Commons media in English wikipedia categories

Commons media are for the use of all wikipedia sites worldwide. The English wikipedia category pages for those commons media list the English wikipedia pages on which those commons media are used.

The commons page for a particular image does not list the English wikipedia pages on which that image is being used.

Sometimes better images are uploaded that can replace lesser-quality images. Without the list of English-language wikipedia pages it would be very difficult to find and replace a particular image on multiple English-language wikipedia pages.

There are images in English wikipedia categories that would not be accepted in the commons. Gif images, fair use images, etc.. So the link to the commons category allows for more public-domain images to be used in English wikipedia pages.

The existence of the English wikipedia category allows for links to be made to the commons category of the same name. So English wikipedia editors then know of the additional commons media available to them. Those images are sometimes better, as explained previously. Oftentimes there is a larger selection of images at the commons.

The existence of the English wikipedia category also allows a logical location for links to the English wikipedia subcategories.

Not all commons images are suitable for placement in English wikipedia categories. Images captioned in other languages for example.

As many others have done I put some of the English-language commons images in the English wikipedia categories. This saves editors time in finding images. Because they don't have to click many commons images to open them up and see what language is used on the image.

It is common for a map or media to be in several categories. There are many examples of this. Maps, for example, often show several nations, territories, etc..

See also the discussion here: Image talk:Israel.png. That is the talk page for the map that an admin uploaded. Admin is ChrisO. He also commented higher up on my talk page here. --Timeshifter 18:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

As for Category:Maps of Gaza Strip, I think that as Image:Gz-map.png (the only local image) is public domain, it should be transwiki'd to commons: then deleted. Then there would be no need for this category here, and the other projects would benefit from another image. — xaosflux 02:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

And if the other images pages existed just to add it to a category here, they should be deletable as well, thus emptying the category. — xaosflux 02:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Please cease creating pages for Commons media on Misplaced Pages simply to populate the categories that you are creating. I posted part of Xaosflux's response on the matter above (which you removed for some reason) to ensure that you've seen it, and the rest can be found on my Talk (which you already commented on extensively). This is not the Misplaced Pages Commons, and this action has already passed the level of disruption. Again, I don't understand why you think you must replicate the Commons' structure here, but that is not the case, as Xaosflux's words attest to. You can seek a clarification if you are unsure about any of the points. Tewfik 21:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

You added the above 2 old comments from Xaosflux. I replied on his talk page. So he may have changed his mind since then. I removed them because you did not write anything to explain them. Those 2 old comments just appeared, but you were listed in the revision history. Some would consider that to be deceptive.

As to your latest comments. As usual, you ignore everything I wrote before, and then just repeat yourself, and go back to mass deletions and reversions. You have a long history of this. I refer you to my previous replies. I also refer you to the ruling by the admin ChrisO.

Also, you are incorrectly adding this template to some map pages:

Template:NowCommons

Category:Images with the same name on Wikimedia Commons

You are adding that template to maps that are already on the commons.

I explained previously about wikipedia category pages that include commons maps. Let me clarify. When one put a commons map in a wikipedia category, one is NOT storing the map at wikipedia. It is still at the commons.

Look at one of the map pages where you incorrectly added the template: Image:Gz-map.gif. It says on the wikipedia map page, "This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. The description on its description page there is shown below."--Timeshifter 21:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The only "ruling" regarding ChrisO is that he is party to the content side of this discussion. He has no special standing just because he is an administrator. "As usual" you preface your comments with an "as usual" attack on me. Yes you did reply to those comments, and apparently that didn't stop you from ignoring their substance and specifically undoing what was recommended. Tewfik 22:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

ChrisO is an admin, and his opinion carries some weight. I did not ignore what Xaosflux said. I replied to it. He was incorrect about his idea of deleting the category. He hasn't since disagreed with me. I did not undo anything. I tried to save you some grief by removing a misplaced template you added. You added it back. So I left it in. It will just waste some admin's time in removing it and explaining why it was misplaced. Pointing out what you do is not an attack. --Timeshifter 22:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Please don't try reverting the two images again. I have something else in mind. :-) -- ChrisO 21:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Concerning Mexican general election 2006 controversies

RE: I did not violate the three revert rule. Additionally, I am not reverting your edits, rather I made an edit that you are reverting without properly addressing the concerns I present in the talk page. True, wikipedia cannot explain everything to every reader, however I am not asking about the origin of the atom here, I am asking for a logical link between the contested information and the article's presentation. At the very least, it should be properly explain why it is the lead to the whole section. Is it that this controversial piece is the main reason why the election was contested? Obviously not! Irresponsbility and inability to discuss logically/negotiate do not assume good faith, and that too is against wikipedia policy. Lets not make this content dispute transform into a personal dispute. I have nothing against you, and I do feel that this warning is rather premature. Hari Seldon 02:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Israel map

Thanks for the heads-up. You may wish to see WP:AN/I#Blatant abuse of speedy deletion by Jayjg. -- ChrisO 08:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

AN/I discussion

Thanks for your support, but could you please let the AN/I discussion end? The threat has run its length and posting any more on it at this stage would be counterproductive. -- ChrisO 07:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Wiki farms

If the AFD result is keep, the comparison page should be merged with the "Wiki farm" page because it's only one sentence. There is no need for two separate sentences. (If you're going to reply, please do it below.) --TeckWiz Contribs_@(Lets go Yankees!) 02:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea to merge the 2 pages. Can you tell me the status of creating a common login for wikipedia and its offshoots (such as Wikibooks Wikispecies Misplaced Pages Commons Wikiquote Wiktionary Wikisource Wikinews Wikiversity)? Then we might be able to merge everything into http://en.wikibooks.org/Wiki_Science .

It is difficult and counterintuitive to wiki-link to that page, though. It requires this code:

]

The new domain names for all the offshoots make it difficult, I guess. Is there a way around this wiki-linking problem? The reason wikipedia works so well, in my opinion, is that a newbie can start editing right away without understanding code, HTML, etc.. The icon bar in the compose window makes learning code unnecessary. But there is nothing in the wikipedia icon bar to make it easy to wikilink to pages on the offshoot sites.

Also, it is difficult for me when I have too many watchlists. I already have several for wikipedia and its offshoots. It discourages me from participating in more offshoots because of the burden of checking up on the many watchlists. A common watchlist for wikipedia and all its offshoots would greatly encourage me to participate in more of the offshoots. Pages can't be protected from vandals unless there are enough people watchlisting them. Also, pages are difficult to edit collaboratively if one is not watchlisting in order to review the latest edits. --Timeshifter 02:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This would probably be good to suggest at WP:VPR. I'm not even sure if the developers could do this if they wanted to, unless they have developer access to all sister sites also. --TeckWiz Contribs_@(Lets go Yankees!) 14:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I went there. It said to go to the bugzilla site for software suggestions. I did a search there. I found this: "Bug 57: Single login on all wikimedia projects." Its URL is:

http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57 --Timeshifter 15:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/Help:Unified_login --Timeshifter 16:19, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I left a comment at Help talk:Unified login. Please check it out. It is the one titled "Funding for more developers to work on unified watchlists." There is discussion about a unified watchlist, but one person suggests it could take years. Maybe you can help them out. Do you code? --Timeshifter 15:51, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't code. --TeckWiz Contribs_@(Lets go Yankees!) 15:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Photo problem

Hello Timeshifter, you reverted my removal of a US coffins photograph om Iraq War#Casualties twice. Your comment was that "Photos have had long discussion". Had I been aware of this discussion (that is, its outcome), I wouldn't have removed the picture in question. But can you tell me where the discussion is? Regards, Nethency 13:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking time & effort to reply to my question. I hope you don't mind I took it to Talk:Iraq war#Photos not related to actual content. Nethency 19:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Article renaming discussion

Either name seems fine. HS's concerns about linkage are obscure, what really matters is the article content. Calling it the second intifada is just as good, and it emphasizes that the plight of the Palestinians has been going on for a very long time without resolution. Most readers don't understand the arabic name/connection. One has to be careful of people that keep harping on you, because often they are trying to provoke you into responding which can then be taken out of context. HTH. --64.230.125.154 23:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You can be a lot more helpful by getting a user name and password. Takes one minute to be a registered user here. The little jab about provocation makes me question your motives. I need to see your history here with a real user name, not an IP that changes over time. Or an IP shared by others.

You missed the point about people finding the article to begin with. That requires that the common names be in the title. Such as

Second (Al-Aqsa) Intifada

Second Intifada (Al-Aqsa Intifada)

Then people doing google searches will find the article. The wikipedia naming guidelines require using the most popular name. When there are 2 popular names, using both in the title solves all the problems. --Timeshifter 08:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

For those who are interested the discussion is occurring here:

Talk:Al-Aqsa Intifada

Starting with this talk section:

Talk:Al-Aqsa Intifada#Proposal to rename --Timeshifter 10:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Redundant

Would you like to explain how Category:Maps of the history of Israel is not redundant to Category:Maps of Israel, and why you've replaced Category:Maps of Palestine with the nonsensical Category:Maps of the history of the Palestinian territories? Tewfik 20:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Category:Maps of the history of Israel is a subcategory of Category:Maps of Israel. Category:Maps of the history of the Palestinian territories is a subcategory of Category:Maps of the Palestinian territories. --Timeshifter 20:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

In addition to being redundant, it is POV, because Palestinian territories is a political POV term. ←Humus sapiens 20:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

About the name "Palestinian territories". Before trying to delete categories with that name in the category name please see the previous discussion here: Category talk:Maps of the Palestinian territories. Also see the many pages and subcategories in Category:Palestinian territories. --Timeshifter 20:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

That fizzled off when we all moved to discussing the specific map. As I said there, we use noncontroversial and factual terms (Category:Gaza Strip, Category:West Bank) in categorisation. Palestinian territories has multiple differing definitions, and is fraught with discussions of POV. Also, please stop creating image description pages of media on the Commons to populate your category. The convention is to delete such pages after moving the images to the Commons, and not the reverse. Tewfik 21:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

We already had this discussion several times already. We do not delete the wikipedia image placeholder pages used for commons images. The commons image itself is stored at the commons. The wikipedia placeholder page provides info not provided by the commons page. Such as the list of all the wikipedia pages using the commons image. Also, it is part of wikipedia image classification in categories. If you have questions about map and image categorization please ask the authorities at Category talk:Maps and Commons:Category talk:Maps

See also the previous discussion on this talk page you are reading now, and see Category talk:Maps of the Palestinian territories. Also see abuse of speedy deletion by Jayjg and Image talk:Is-wb-gs-gh v3.png. This has all been thoroughly discussed before.

See also: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Maps and Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Maps. --Timeshifter 21:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Palestine

Ah yea, sorry. I'm trying out IE 7 and it did somthing weird. Thanks for putting it back. AW 10:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

About Hafrada

I thought I would help you to make sense of what happened there after noticing your comments on the talk page. Originally, I had created a page entitled Separation policy. After noticing that it duplicated some of the material at the then existing Hafrada page, I merged the material into that article (after consulting other editors who had worked on it to make sure it was relevant and related) and redirected Separation policy to Hafrada. As you can see from the edit history there, Urthogie began deleting vast amounts of material and then copying and pasting vast amounts of material from other pages like Israel's unilateral disengagement plan into the article. I nevertheless made many changes to attempt to incorporate is edits and to attempt to respond to a number of objections he made on the talk. I had to take a hiatus for a while and when I came back I noticed he had deleted the entire article content and replaced it with a disambig page which is now titled Hafrada. Instead of reverting his edits, I left the disambig page intact and created a new article entitled Hafrada (Separation) to which I added the content Urthogie had unilaterally deleted in my absence. He attempted to revert these edits, by redirecting the new article I created to the disambig page he created, effectively deleting the article again while bypassing an AfD on the issue. While I have encouraged him to nominate the article for deletion if he feels so strongly that it is not encyclopedic, he has so far refused to do so, presumably because he knows that he cannot get such an AfD to pass when the article is so well-sourced, compact and to the point. Now, he is trying to delete whole sections again using very spurious reasoning. I have reverted his latest edits accordingly. I would definitely appreciate your input since you have a long history of editing Middle East related articles in a very reasonable and fair fashion. If he continues to attempt to delete vast sections of the article or the entire article content itself, I will either call for a RfC or nominate the article for deletion myself as a good faith gesture. I am quite confident that the community will vote to keep, but would definitely welcome opinions both for and against and any input that might improve the article further. Thanks for your interest. Tiamut 18:02, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your input and advice. I will consider definitely consider that action if he continues to delete sourced information, as he did again yesterday. Tiamut 08:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I saw your note and reverted the deletion of the list at that page. I cannot understand why people delete information that is sourced to reliable sources and directly relevant to the subject matter at hand, as they have at United States military aid to Israel. I think the WP definition of vandalism should clearly condemn such actions as counterproductive and disruptive. Tiamut 10:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Nazism

Somewhat late, but you might be interested in this. Intangible2.0 21:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Global perspecitves task force

Hi Timeshifter! I noticed some of your recent edits providing information on contractor casualties in Iraq. Excellent stuff. It led me to check out some of your work on the site, which is really top notch. Kudos. Anyways, based on your edit history, I thought you might be interested in a new task force that is forming as part of the Countering Systemic Bias project. Check it out here. If this sparks your interest, please drop in on the talk page and join in. As Misplaced Pages continues to grow, I think monitoring sources and making sure that the site represents a truly global (as opposed to American or even European) viewpoint will be increasingly important and challenging! And it seems like that is something you are quite vigilant about already. Cheers. --Mackabean 23:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

3RR on WP:EL

You seem to have committed a very straightforward 4RR (or more I haven't checked all the other edits you did in 24 hours on WP:EL )

You are assumed to be knowledge of policy as you've threatened others with it so I am blocking you for 24 hours. You are welcome to appeal this in the usual way. --BozMo talk 17:28, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I count 3RR, not 4RR. The first one you link to was my edit to an altogether new version, not a reversion. The last 3 are reversions to an old longstanding version. So that makes 3RR, not 4. --Timeshifter 04:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, as I said in my email to you BozMo, I am not gaming 3RR. I gave up further reversions. Talk was progressing fine at

Misplaced Pages talk:External links#Intro is unclear as to difference between external links and reference/citation links

Someone else had changed the introduction paragraph in question since my last change anyway, and only talk will resolve anything. The page is a guideline so it is not likely to be full-protected, or at least not for long. So the chaos of people deleting longstanding guideline text will probably continue, and I had given up on trying to keep it. I had given up before the block. So the block was unnecessary, and I would like to get back to the discussion sooner rather than later. Plus I don't want this on my block record. --Timeshifter 04:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

This block was reversed as a mistake. See below. --Timeshifter 19:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The Edit war on WP:EL

The Group of self declared spam fighters : User:Requestion, User:BozMo, User:Femco, User:A. B. are now involved in an edit war on WP:EL. Find out why they want to change the rules here : User:Advocates_For_Free_Speech&diff=131259703&oldid=131259649

--81.245.96.143 19:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I am not part of this fight. It seems that the above anonymous IP is being used to stalk BozMo. See BozMo's comment below. --Timeshifter 08:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Found this in the history on my talk page

Weirdness. I have no idea why this below was removed by BozMo from my talk page. Here is the diff of the removal. --Timeshifter 03:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

See the history tab at User_talk:Advocates_For_Free_Speech http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Advocates_For_Free_Speech&oldid=131518148

It was originally posted by 81.242.56.182. See this diff.

I thought it was against wikipedia guidelines to edit the comments of others except in exceptional circumstances as outlined in WP:TALK.

By the way, I am not using anonymous IPs to edit at wikipedia. --Timeshifter 03:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I also do not support spam in any way. --Timeshifter 04:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Weird, but there was a reason. This note was posted in several places by two IPs who appear to be socks for a banned user (banned for spam and abuse only); the banned user is trying to stalk three admins (of whom I am one) involved in their case via new anon IPs each time. I reverted the whole lot in one go without paying too much attention to where they were, and put a temp block on the new IPs. I don't generally waste time discussing that kind of thing unless asked.

Meanwhile, thanks for your email. There was a body of text which you changed into the article four times. That block of text had previously been in the article and so (notwithstanding the changes in between) I count the first one as a revert. You shouldn't really ever get close to 3RR but I know these things are frustrating sometimes. You have a previous 48 hr block for a second offence so 24 hours could have been longer. I think I would have been more sympathetic (and probably not bothered to intervene) but I am not very impressed by people trying to game 3RR by going close to the wire and then putting threat notices on the other people involved in the edit war. You'll be back before you know it --BozMo talk 06:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate now the stalking problem. But I don't think you understand my point that I did not do 4RR.

Here is how the introduction paragraph looked after the first diff of mine that you listed:

The subject of this guideline is external links that are not citations of article sources. A non-footnote inline link can be either an external link or a citation/reference link. If the site or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source for the article, and citing it. For instructions on citing sources using inline links, footnotes, and/or reference sections see WP:CITE#HOW and Misplaced Pages:Embedded citations.

The first version directly addressed the reason given by Requestion for changing (not deleting) my previous edits. That reason given by Requestion was "rm duplicate and unnecessary citation links, WP:CITE already linked in the previous sentence." So I rewrote it and removed the duplicate wikilink to WP:CITE.

Here is the paragraph after the other diffs you listed:

The guideline of this article refers to external links other than citations. Citation links belong in the Notes or References section of a Misplaced Pages article. Care must be taken not to delete inline links and external links if it looks like they are being used as references. This guideline only concerns external links that provide additional info beyond that provided by citation/reference links. Err on the side of caution if a citation/reference link has not yet been moved to a reference section. Some articles need a reference section added. Use this wiki code:

==References==

<references/>

That last version is the previous longstanding version. I went back to that version AFTER Requestion deleted everything. Requestion started the reversions, not me. So I warned him. You did not block Requestion. Why not? I say it is because he did not do 3RR. And he did not do 3RR because I warned him as the wikipedia guidelines recommend. I do not appreciate being accused of gaming 3RR, BozMo, or for being maligned for following wikipedia guidelines. I ask you to examine my points, and to reconsider.

I ask because the first time I was blocked for 3RR months ago was also done incorrectly, and I let it slide. I did not have a 3RR violation then. The admin then also miscounted. I had already stopped because I had been warned. By letting that miscount slide I had an increase in block time for the next 3RR. That 3RR was justified due to my then-ignorance of 3RR rules. The 48 hours was not justified though. Because my first 3RR block was not justified. So I am asking for some consideration this time. I can not afford to let it slide this time. You gave me no warning before blocking me. And no one asked you to block me as far as I know. And the edit war had already stopped. Progress was being made on the article talk page.

My previous 3RR blocks are discussed in these subsections of my user talk page higher up:

"Regarding reversions made on December 03, 2006 to Taba Summit article"

"User talk:Timeshifter#Blocked for breach of 3RR on Lancet surveys of mortality before and after the 2003 invasion of Iraq"

Please see my user talk page table of contents.--Timeshifter 07:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I also believe this block may have been a punitive block, not a preventive block. My last reversion was 00:46, 17 May 2007. The block was initiated at 17:29, 17 May 2007. The edit war had stopped long before. Someone else had removed my version at 10:34, 17 May 2007, and I did not revert it, nor did I complain. Talk was progressing nicely on the article talk page. --Timeshifter 08:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

{{unblock|1=I did not do 4RR. See my user talk page for an explanation.|Doesn't look like 3RR to me}} --Timeshifter 07:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I came here via unbloc-review; I can't see why is a revert William M. Connolley 08:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I've been looking at this as well and I agree. I see only two reverts, possibly a third, and would support unblocking with a note in the block log to say "false alarm". Sam Blacketer 08:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to Be Bold and do this William M. Connolley 09:23, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I am obviously entirely happy about the second opinion on this, that's what the appeal thing is for. I am also more than happy apologising as I seem to have got it wrong. However as a point of info you ask why I thought was a revert. The reason was that the edit comment given on was "return longstanding introduction" which I took as implying this text had existed for more than an hour and that the first edit was reverting back in something from before: thus that it also was a revert. I tried to explain above. I should have checked that the impression was correct. --BozMo talk 10:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for unblocking me. I think there is still an autoblock though. I just tried to edit a couple pages and can't do so. This is the first time since the block began that I have tried to edit pages other than my user talk page. --Timeshifter 14:03, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I see in my block log that I have been unblocked. So I assume I am autoblocked, but I don't understand why. I don't think I tried to edit any pages other than my user talk page until I saw the block lifted in my block log. --Timeshifter 14:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Y	Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s): Autoblock of 74.138.147.185 lifted or expired. Request handled by:  Netsnipe  ►  17:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

This is annoying for you and I apologise especially since the block is in error (I don't do 3RRs very often, normally just vandalism and spam). Can you now edit? If not email me and I will try to fix it. --BozMo talk 19:26, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I can edit now. Thanks. --Timeshifter 01:42, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Mediation Case Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-05-20 Al-Aqsa Intifada

You are involved in hte MedCab case Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-05-20 Al-Aqsa Intifada, and are invited to join the discussion. Please do. GofG _|| Talk 14:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Deletion Process Close

Who will make the call on the Panorama Stitchers, Viewers and Utilities page. It has been open for longer then the normal 5 days. Based on the deletion request in the first few hours after it created by Thomas, this should have never had submitted in the first place. It's just another example of the 'wiki bullies' (PanoToolsNG members) trying to control anything panorama based on the Misplaced Pages. John Spikowski 07:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems User:Requestion is on a mission to eliminate all external links from the Misplaced Pages. John Spikowski 23:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Stepping on your work

Sorry !!! I will be more careful from now on. John Spikowski 07:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Timeshifter, Thanks for your comments on the Editlink page about how some people tend to be a bit negative with new comers. I'm new to wikipedia and have been on the receiving end of comments from at least one of the people you called out about not being very welcoming. For newcomers this is place is a bit intimidating and it is easy to make a mistake. Mistakes are not necessarily evil. And to be honest, for most of the public, wikipedia does seem like a place where they can say and link anything they want. It’s so easy and the rules are not always evident until you've made a mistake and incurred the wrath of someone. If it were not for a sympathetic editor who reached out and said, “you don't seem evil, why don't you explain yourself and we'll see if we can help,” I would have left in a huff like that film fellow did.

I just wanted to thank you personally. I'm still feeling my way around and don't want to get into a public debate until I'm a bit more established. But that fellow that has a name like an office supply form seems to bite my head off even when I'm trying to follow his dictates.

Any thanks, Tim --Tim Lorang 17:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Thanks, I appreciate your support. --Tim Lorang 15:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: IBC

I did some research, found some false sources, I believe it should go on the main page but didnt wanna write it twice (couldnt copy from discussion thing, too informal) could you please undo your revert thing?

--Guitarplayer001 02:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, well at least write what you think about it in the discussion page please.

--Guitarplayer001 02:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Insurgent dead

I agree about the naming of the insurgent dead list. I have been sifting through reports by the globalsecurity.org site recently and found lots of reports previously unused in the list. I have reached through march 2004. As far as I can tell the number of insurgents killed in 2003, 2006 and 2007 is just as it should be, no more updating is needed, well except for 2007 that is. The only years that we are left with are 2004 and 2005, by my count we are short by at least 160 insurgents killed in 2004 and around 550 in 2005. Also we are short by at least 150 sucide bombers killed in 2006. I'll try to continue finding sources on all of these deaths that we are still missing.--Top Gun 16:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Err... I think you have the wrong guy...

I've not actually edited that article...-Localzuk 01:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I moved the discussion to your talk page to avoid confusion and duplication. I have your talk page on my watchlist. That way I will be able to see when you reply there. --Timeshifter 10:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Panorama Software Project

I'm going to let Carl take the lead with representing the panorama community. If he would like my help, I will do my part. I really think this page should be used as the "Poster Child" of external links and find some common ground before any further work is done on it. If you could post a note on Carl's page and see if there is a way that we all can work together then I'm in, otherwise moving forward is too difficult. John Spikowski 11:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

List of mind mapping software

Moved all comments to Talk:List of mind mapping software.

Number of killed insurgents for january to 1st of june 2007

Check this out I have found an article in which a U.S. general said that since january through the end of May 3,180 enemy fighters have been killed. According to our count from various news sources around 1,900 fighters have been killed during this period. Here it is http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0601/p01s04-woiq.html . What do you think should we replace the number of 1,900 with this one or should we leave it as it is, because a number like 3,180 sounds to me a little far feched. If it's true great a solid number for the first half of this year, but what if it's not true and the number is inflated, a little information warfare you know, because again 3,180 in five months? During the WORST fighting in 2004 we have confirmed that that WHOLE year around 3,500 were killed. So what do you think? Should we go with this new number or leave the old one?Top Gun 18:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Panorama software (Category)

Can you help with "categorizing" this page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Panorama_software

I don't understand what the message on this page is asking for. John Spikowski 06:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

1. "Politicus Interruptus". By Uri Avnery. Gush Shalom. Feb. 23, 2002.
2. "frontline: shattered dreams of peace: the negotiations | PBS".
3. "Trying to Understand the Taba Talks". By David Matz. Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture. Vol.10 No.3 2003.
4. Cite error: The named reference jointstatement was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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