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Revision as of 20:29, 20 June 2007

MiddleEastNewsAgency

there's also a newsagency called mena. see: mena.org.eg

Doesn't really have anything to do with the term MENA covered here. Egyptian state organ. (Collounsbury 08:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)).

Poorly written

This article was really terribly written. I have edited to rephrase to remove references of MENA region as if it is an "actor" - as well as excessive territorial precision as usage is fairly variable. I removed odd commentary on MENA as consumer market which sounds like promo marketing material (and strikes me as having needed citation to support). I also removed the extensive, POV, dated and inaccurate economic/marketing/consumer discussion (Collounsbury 08:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)).

Inclusion of Western Sahara

Why, Jalil? As the article explicitly states, there is no one definition of MENA, but the guideline is the "Middle East" and "North Africa." Since Western Sahara is in North Africa, it belongs on the list, right? Are you going to delete - for instance - Djibouti, because it does not fit the criteria you cited (by way of Fayssal's edit summary)? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 03:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Western Sahara is in North Africa, and so is Kabylia and the Souss region. This list includes the countries not the provinces and territories. If you want to add Western Sahara, why not add Kabylia, Souss, the Rif, etc. Jibouti is a full-fledged country and is claimed/disputed by none, not to be compared with disputed territories.--A Jalil 07:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Justin, please stop that. You are being watched by not only admins but by arbits as well. So stop that nonsense. Why not go work for the World Bank and ask them to do include it in their definition? -- FayssalF - 10:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense? To call Western Sahara a province is POV, Jalil. You must know that. How is this nonsense, Fayssal? The article explicitly states that there is no single definition of MENA; Western Sahara is in North Africa, right? Is that nonsense? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 16:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

And to add a flag or whatever to it is POV as well. This is the bottom line. Please have some research and understand that MENA is an economic platform where state members often meet. It is not a political or geographic entity. So the nonsense i am referring to is just like trying to convience us to add Switzerland to the European Union. So please save us some time. Do you have any more confusions? -- FayssalF - 16:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

One definition Sure, that's one definition, Fayssal. So, are you going to delete Djibouti from the list, since it's not a part of the World Bank's definition? If not, why are you in favor of deleting Western Sahara? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 17:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Justin, please check your facts. Djibouti is listed at the WB list. -- FayssalF - 17:49, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

True I had assumed competency in the map that clearly is not the case... Djibouti is on their list, and for some reason, Malta is conspicuously absent from this one. Note that the section does not say "the following are the World Bank's definition of MENA," rather it says "MENA is typically used to include the following countries, although no standard definition exists." (emphasis added) How can you exclude Western Sahara? What is the justification, exactly? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 18:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah bloody hell, the little WS moujahil moudjahid is back. Malta is not part of MENA as (i) it is an EU member and second, despite having historic links to MENA, a long (willing) dependency of European powers (long as in centuries). MENA is a usage found largely in the sphere of people in WB circles and investment circles. WB usage, as such, then, rather than political activist circles is the reference point. Above all when such activists lack a basic understanding of usage, history or, well, practical reality. Welcome back to your personal Qixotic djihad mate. collounsbury 23:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks As usual, between British slang, obscure Arabic transliteration, and insults, I'm not sure that I even understand the point of your post. Are you in favor of removing Malta and/or including Western Sahara in this list? Thanks for the red link - here's another common courtesy and intelligibility. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 23:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Collounsbury for remarking Malta. Koavf has added it though MENA does not include European countries. Ceuta and Melilla are in North Africa and are at the moment part of Spain, if that does not make Spain part of MENA, how could Malta be??.--A Jalil 08:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know Ask the World Bank. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 15:27, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

koavf, you wrote above "As the article explicitly states, there is no one definition of MENA, but the guideline is the "Middle East" and "North Africa."". So why do you insist on inserting a European country, Malta?. Because it is on the list of countries on the WB page? but why do you try to add WS which is not on that list?, and it is not even a country. The WB seems to be relevant in the case of Malta but not in the case of WS. Stop this non-sense please.--A Jalil 20:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

World Bank definitions I was never in favor of the World Bank definition, but if we're going to use it, we should use it, and not capriciously delete one of the countries. You can't exclude both Malta and Western Sahara by any rational standard. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 02:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Good lord, what the bloody hell is your bloody problem? Malta is by no rational standard part of the MENA region. No one in business or generally includes it in the game. Why WB has it on their headline list escapes me, but certainly if you go to the bloody drop down menu you don't bloody get Malta, now do you? (The answer is no) Western Sahara is a disputed bloody territory, different question. I'm bloody taking Malta off the page. Some degree of rationality may yet prevail. collounsbury 14:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC).

By the way, for a look at real operational definiations of MENA, see WB's own "Doing Business" Database / Project: MENA for example http://www.doingbusiness.org/EconomyRankings/?regionid=426 - Malta does not operationally fall in there. Indeed, in business we look at Malta - like Cyprus - as part of Europe. Now lay off your peculiar little djihad. It's tediously ill-informed. collounsbury 14:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

This is getting ridiculous. Before bloody reverting, bloody well respond to actual critiques. I defend your (koavf) edits where you have a point, but bloody playing childish revert games tries the patience. 20:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Bloody Well, you bloody well bring up a bloody point about the bloody dropdown menu and how the bloody World Bank apparently (bloody) contradicts itself. You could consider it MENA, I suppose, because it is Semitic. That seems bloody reasonable to me. I'm personally not invested in including Malta; I only did so because I saw a source that included it. Since said source contradicts itself, feel free to remove it for all I care, but not all of the other reasonable additions (e.g. Western Sahara, greater Middle East, reference to Chinese culture instead of PRC, etc.) Bloody. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 20:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)