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This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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• Refining the administrator elections process
• Blocks for promotional activity outside of mainspace
• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Proposed rewrite of WP:BITE
• LLM/chatbot comments in discussions

V Tech shooter vandal

I just stumbled across this, and thought it worth bringing to admin attentions. Clearly, this IP is shared, so a block on it isn't worthwhile, but the vandal is, and the image should probably be watched/deleted. The vandal is adding pictures of the Virginia tech shooter wielding a hammer to multiple articles. I've got little doubt the vandal will return, so we should probably be aware. ThuranX 20:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

• Blocked 1 week. See if they come back. Guy (Help!) 20:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

IP resolves to a company in Calgary, AB... You'd think someone working for a chemical company would have better things to do with their time, eh? Point being though that I don't think IP blocks would be as problematic as if this were from an ISP pool so dealing with this by blocking should still be on the table (obviously not for the previous stuff, but going forward).--Isotope23 20:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

As I said, I figured a block would be pointless, but maybe someone will notice it. Too bad we can't contact them and be like 'hey, WTFBBQ?' ThuranX 21:08, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

We should contact that Calgary chemical company just saying what happened and giving the evidence, then the people who run the company can do our work for us (and better) in finding the vandal and repremanding him. PS we contact schools why not buisnesses. Hypnosadist 08:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

By the way, it's not a chemical company: it's an oil exploration corporation, and a positively huge one. --70.73.252.78 04:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

ARGH that was me. Anyway, the company has about 3,200 employees. --Charlene 04:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes and one of those 3200 people is not doing the job they are paid for (the company's problem) and is vandalising wikipedia (our problem). Lets potentially solve two problems with one email and just email the IT and PR depts at this company and let them sort it out. Maybe they choose to do nothing, maybe they check their logs and find out who did this and repremand them, either way its no skin off our nose to send an email. Hypnosadist 09:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

So any admins sending that email? Hypnosadist 12:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Most likely not, because it won't achieve anything and it's horrible public relations. --MichaelLinnear 22:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"because it won't achieve anything" Now you don't know if you don't try, do you. "horrible public relations" No its protecting our investment and work like a proper company should do. There is no reason we should take this crap from vandals and the company is not paying them to do it so everyone except the vandal wins. Hypnosadist 23:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Of course. Why rock the boat? If Misplaced Pages can't rid itself of the people who pushed H out, why would they worry about outside wiki? ThuranX 22:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I looked through them and thought they were funny. Apparently it was just somebody being funny and nothing too big. SakotGrimshine 13:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Biruitorul

I'm not sure what to make of this but it seems this is an escalation of the conflict between this user and User:Anonimu over some Romanian pages relating to the communist presence there. However, this seems more or less like a death threat (if not some sort of strange alegory involving the murder? strongly directed towards the above user in any case). I'm tempted to give a block for about a week. Just wanted thoughts and/or clarification on what the hell this is all about. Sasquatch t|c 20:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll issue an explanation here. If you read the context in which the above was written, you'll clearly see it was part of a story that bore no relation to reality, was pure fantasy (a nuclear-armed rowboat?), and expressed no actual desire to murder anyone. Of course, such writing has no relation to the business of Misplaced Pages and I promise, no questions asked, to cease writing further installments of this adventure. I apologise for any breach of policy that has been committed. But please let's not allow Anonimu to obscure the difference between a fictional attack in an outrageously bad story and the many actual attacks he has made on me. Biruitorul 21:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, of course, it's all just a joke until somebody gets hurt. And if it was meant only as fiction, why is my username explicitly mentioned as the name of the one getting stabbed? "Anonimu" is not an English name and it's not even a Romanian one (and i doubt it's used as a name in any language) so it couldn't have come from nowhereAnonimu 22:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the outcry of Anonimu is somewhat discredited by his behaviour on other editors' talk pages, like here --KIDB 08:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

In the story, the names of all the characters are those of Wikipedians, but nobody is going to get hurt here. The story is an outrageous fiction, it was never meant to be taken seriously (nuclear rowboats?) (and its target audience, K. Lastochka, I'm sure did not). However, I have agreed to cease writing and I apologise for any violations I have committed. But yes, to those who have eyes to see, it is fiction, but your many attacks against me are not. Biruitorul 22:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

So you're saying that if you feel attacked (albeit you have few proofs of it) you can go and "fictionally" kill (or threaten, that the same thing for me) users you don't like? Anonimu 22:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I have been attacked repeatedly and viciously by you; do not attempt to deny it now. In the spirit of the new tone I've just pledged to you, I will not attempt to answer your question, which is an attempt to bait me. I have already offered you an apology, explained that no actual harm of any sort was or is meant, and am ready to move on to more productive work. Biruitorul 00:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

In light of this and your promise to not do this again, I'll just issue a harsh warning. However, do not take this lightly. Fiction or not, you referred to a specific editor and it most definitely was a serious personal attack. Both sides on these romanian issues need to cease the ad hominen attacks and resolve your conflicts otherwise. I would start off by both of you apologizing for any offense you may have cause the other sides as I can see much to apologize for. Sasquatch t|c 22:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I've said so to Sasquatch personally, but let me reiterate: the story was a terrible mistake and I will cease writing fiction here. I've committed a serious error in judgment and deeply appreciate the second chance I've been offered. I'm certainly not taking this lightly and will remain civil in such disputes as they arise. Biruitorul 22:45, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Since no coercive measure have been taken, i request that Biruitorul's right to check an anonymous ip against mine through checkuser be taken.(i don't know if that's possible) I have a family, and i wouldn't want problems.Anonimu 22:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an administrator with checkuser rights, so this request is unfounded. Besides, as I have made clear: I never intended and do not intend to commit any physical harm, or harm of any other sort, to any Wikipedian. True, I gave that impression, and I'm sorry I did. But the fact remains: I am not a danger to others. Biruitorul 00:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Any punishment or harsh warning issued to Biruitorul must be issued in equal strength to me. I was 50% of the writing of that unbelievably retarded Horatio-Hornblower-meets-Dr.-Strangelove melodrama. It was my idea to crash both ships on a desert island. It was my idea to have the Anonimu character become the leader of a band of bloodthirsty island savages. It was my fault the story was ever written in the first place, since I was the one who took Biru's silly vignette and expanded it into a dumb epic. For the record, I am deeply ashamed and humiliated over the completely unprofessional and indefensible behavior I have been engaged in over the last few weeks, even after I made a promise to myself that I would henceforth be a model of good citizenship and trustworthiness. Clearly, I am none of those things. I am seriously considering leaving Misplaced Pages for good, but before I go I must apologize for my unbelievably and indefensibly, atrociously poor judgement and bad taste. People like me should not be contributing to Misplaced Pages--if a ban is called for, I will sadly accept it. K. Lásztocska 04:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read the lighthearted inkslinging duel between Biru and K Lasztocska and must say its aim is not vindictive - having "known" both editors for some time I can attest that both are not only very well behaved, but also are active peacemakers in one of the rougher wikibarrios (eastern European issues) . It's true that intemperate words are easily misunderstood, and we should avoid certain allegories (or at least that fictitious villains should carry fictitious names). But I'm also sure that Biru's intemperance here is not vindictiveness but likely whimsical exuberance. I'm also 100% sure Biru is now as painfully aware of that as anyone else on the Wiki. He's not a bad guy and has earned a bit of slack. István 16:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Both parties are good contributors. There is no doubt about that. The thing is, as i explained at one of the disputed articles' talk page, that there is a lack of assuming good faith toward eachother. I urge both of them to AGF. -- FayssalF - 14:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Wait...who are we talking about now? Me and Biru? Biru and Anonimu? I am confused....K. Lásztocska 23:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

User:H is gone

User:H has left due to threats made to his family. Corvus cornix 02:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• I know. I'm so sorry - and so disappointed - to hear that. It's just disgusting - Alison ☺ 02:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

*Bangs head* Anyone who takes Misplaced Pages as seriously as the people harassing him need psychiatric help. It's only a fucking website, people. It's not worth harassing people over. --Deskana (talk) 02:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

(EC x3) If the threat was made on-wiki, can't the guilty party be blocked? -Jeske 02:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't (just) on-wiki. Can we all leave it at that for the sake of the guy's privacy? - Alison ☺ 02:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

:( --Masamage ♫ 02:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I second that. This is revolting. (The internet: you no longer have to have a shred of humanity to interact with people.) Gracenotes § 02:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• Quick note -- it looks from this to be the GNAA getting revenge for him deleting their article. Real shame about it, though. --72.70.144.228 02:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• As far as I'm concerned, the GNAA can jump off a bridge. I noticed the message my first attempt to edit this section; hence the edit summary I provided. -Jeske 02:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• More likely to be ColScott I'm afraid. :-( Hesperian 02:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh no. Someone typed mean things at him. Sheesh... HalfShadow 02:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

His family was harassed off-wiki. And not to long ago, he himself was harassed at work due to ColScott (talk · contribs) producing his personal information on his website. This is not decision H made lightly. -- moe.RON 02:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Typed? Not necessarily; it is entirely possible that someone contacted him (or his family) in the real world. -- tariqabjotu 02:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think it's ColScott. I am in conversation with him at the moment. Guy (Help!) 07:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• It will be too bad if we have to lose a good editor this way. Can't H just open a new account, with the bureaucrats/office ensuring that it gets admin privileges ? Abecedare 02:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Hard to make that work -- a brand new account with admin privs tends to draw attention. --jpgordon 03:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I hope something is worked out ... but I'll desist from posting ideas here. Abecedare 04:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Is the OFFICE following up for legal purposes? The loss of 'H' is a shame, but the means by which is was effected by another editor are shameful to the entire project. That such people exist can't be helped, but that they perpetuate such behavior over a website? sheesh. High marks to the fast actions of the Admins who moved on it. WIll there be a community ban discussion? If so, can an admin link it here? ThuranX 06:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't think OFFICE can do anything about it, really. And even I don't think a community ban needs to be discussed. Considering the outcry when ColScott got unblocked, and now, the circumstances of his new block.. I don't think any admin will want to unblock him ever. That's pretty much a community ban right there, neh? SirFozzie 06:27, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

FYI, it's not Don Murphy who's to blame this time.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah. My bad, as the saying goes. Struck the comment out. Still, I don't think there's much office can do except possibly ban whomever made the threats. SirFozzie 06:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

There's no point, Foz. The throwaway IPs have all been blocked as open proxies & the one-off account has been blocked indef. There's nobody to ban, unfortunately. Such is the way with anonymous threats. And all these sites (no names) who talk about accountability and attempt to 'out' admins; this is what it brings. Physical threats upon someone's family. As Deskana said, it's only a fucking website. Nobody deserves this kind of abuse - Alison ☺ 06:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This sort of mess is exactly why that other thing, the one no one dares mention, Misplaced Pages's own ... can't be resolved. Because everyone is afraid to touch that and get this, since that's made clear this is the result he wants. Frankly, I'm frustrated that the OFFICE, and JW, aren't pursuing such actions more aggressively via legal channels. This is NOT the first such incident, and escalation's only more and more likely with each similar incident. Anonimity yields assholery yields brutality, yay intarwebz. cant' we just crush this guy's tube extension? (Stevens of Alaska Reference.) ThuranX 06:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly, ColScott isn't behind this. Okay, perhaps he's not the one who made the threats but he is the one who's been posting H's alleged personal details on his talk page. Are we supposed to believe it mere coincidence that these threats come now? At least, it seems probable that these posts are what led the harassers to H, and oversight, while appreciated, came too slow. You know, that's not ColScott's fault either. It's ours. We knew he did this kind of thing to people generally, and we knew he did it to H in particular, yet we unblocked him anyhow…four times in a row blocked for the very same reason, then unblocked. The vast majority of the community wanted him permabanned, but this was overidden by purportedly wiser voices, who had solicited several meatpuppets through IRC. These wiser voices bear some measure of responsibility for this outcome.Proabivouac 07:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

So, in reading that, am I to understand that one can buttress WP:IAR with extortion, harrassment, intimidation and death threats, and the foundation will give you goodies? This can not possibly be sensible to anyone. ThuranX 07:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't sensible to the Arbitration Committee, which wrote: "Misplaced Pages users, especially administrators, will not permit a user under attack to be isolated, but will support them. This may include reverting harassing edits, protecting or deleting pages, blocking users, or taking other appropriate action."Proabivouac 07:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to re-open the discussion to community ban User:ColScott (not just block him per this message,_ and would like to hear some feedback from the community before this discussion is prematurely archived, as it was on WP:ANI.]Proabivouac 08:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Ryulong is right. There's not much to be achieved here in instituting a community ban on ColScott. The guy's indefblocked now & his user and talk pages are inaccessible. This really doesn't help User:H in any way. - Alison ☺ 08:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

There's a lot to be achieved. I want appeals to unblock to be directed to the community, not to the Foundation, because the Foundation has in this instance demonstrated its judgment to be catastrophically unreliable, to the point of causing real-world harm to our volunteers. With all due respect, that is completely unacceptable. No doubt, WMF can ignore a community ban, but such a record could prompt a well-warranted gut check.Proabivouac 09:05, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Would you stop blaming this all on Bastique? He acted as a bridge between ColScott and Wikimedia when ColScott was thoroughly pissed. Any information ColScott had put up then is gone. There is nothing to gain here from banning anyone or casting the blame on anyone.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 09:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

ColScott has nothing to do with this recent situation. IRC has nothing to do with this situation. There is no purpose in starting up a discussion anywhere to ban ColScott. I can assure you that Bastique, Jimbo, and whoever else there is will get this resolved (the Foundation is in St. Petersburg, Florida which is in the same timezone I am in, and right now it's after 4:30 am). It's a bad situation, yes, but let's not make it any worse.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 08:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

We're coming up on the end of the working day in the relevant time zome, and I've seen ZERO movement on any aspect of this, beyond the above section where supposedly JzG is working on parts of this. Beyond that, I think us regular wikipedians should get an update about which wikipedians represent a threat to our livelihoods, and will not be blocked or stopped for that, so that we can edit around them as best we can. ThuranX 19:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This mayby fun and games with middle class americans threatning each other but this could result in real deaths if it is allowed to slide. I work mostly on terrorism related articles, "outing" there could have fatal consequences. The same is true for our editors who don't have the luxury of living in a decmocracy that protects there rights, what happens if they are outed and the government doesn't like their edits? 14:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC) Hypnosadist 14:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

What needs to happen now!

1) Community ban for ColScott.

2) Policy writing that makes "outing" a wikipedia editors an automatic community ban on a first offence.

3) H and the wikipedia foundation should take ColScott to civil court for endangering H's family and anything else the best/nastiest lawyers money can buy can come up with. This is a proposition to the admins and foundation and not a threat. Hypnosadist 14:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

If you're referring to ColScott, then I don't think JzG is a "middle class American", nor do I find that comment particularly germane. Corvus cornix 18:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I was refering to ColScott and GNAA not JzG. Just deal with the points i've raised Corvus. Hypnosadist 19:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure how much weight my opinion carries as a non-admin--but from what I'm reading here, I am absolutely appalled by what has happened. We shouldn't be debating what to do about whoever's responsible for this outrage. We should be calling the police. The user or users responsible for this should be banned, and reported to their ISPs--do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Blueboy96 18:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm almost dead positive it wasn't ColScott. He may be a dick (IMO), but I don't think he would go to the lengths of threatening someone's family. I agree with the outing thing though. However, one must also consider that H did have his name available on his page, at least at one point in the past. Saturday 18:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to keep open the discussion about blocking or unblocking and protecting and unprotecting, because I don't know much about the background to this, and I'm getting the impression that those who do know are trying to deal with this discreetly and do not appreciate further fuel being added. However, I will point out that people who give personal details when they join Misplaced Pages and then discover that it's not a good idea should not in any way be held responsible for the consequences of their earlier innocence. Also, if someone feels it's necessary to unblock someone who has engaged in harassment, in the hope that this will stop the harassment, at the very least they should word their entry in the block log very carefully, keeping in mind the feelings of those who may be affected. ElinorD (talk) 23:53, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter whether or not it's ColScott--whoever's responsible for this should be headed for jail, pronto. From what little I'm gettign, the Office thought they had things in hand and couldn't have known this would blow up the way it did (though if they had enough info that they should have known, that's another matter. However, I would hope measures are being taken to ensure there isn't a next time for this sort of thing. Ever. Nobody should have to worry about being bullied here. And I honestly don't think a discussion on ColScott is necessary ... given the situation, no one in his right mind would unblock him. Blueboy96 19:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

That was said last time. He was allowed back. Give it a little time, and it will happen again. Notice the OFFICE has said nothing here. ThuranX 21:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

ColScott did publish information on his forum which allowed his dittoheads to track down the home and work addresses of JzG. I don't know what he hoped to accomplish from that other than real-life harrassment, but at least he has removed that stuff from his forum. Still, it's closing the barn door after the horse is gone. Corvus cornix 21:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The foundation has a duty of care towards its editors dispite our work being voluntary. Hypnosadist 23:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• I don't know why you all are blaming ColScott. This is quite clearly the work of the GNAA, and they are even taking responsibility for it. (see their website) --Gibs0n 01:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Someone in #wikipedia just said: "I just saw on the news that some guy was raided by the FBI for threatening to kill a user of wikipedia" --TonySt 04:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

  Yeah, I just saw that on KVBC 3 in my hotel room here. They didn't say who anybody involved was, but it seems likely (to me)it was ColScott/HighInBC. Glad to see justice being done. --72.70.144.228 04:33, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

  Can anyone find a news source for this? I can't, and having one here would be excellent. ThuranX 05:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

  Just let it go. There's currently no evidence to support this so it's just speculation right now & yeah, I asked on IRC. And also - KVBC = Vegas, etc, etc. I saw the image (hey - I deleted it). Nothing to see here, folks, move along .... - Alison ☺ 05:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

  (edit conflict) There's nothing about this or anything related to Misplaced Pages on KVBC's website, or on any other Las Vegas news media websites. I presume it's more trolls doing what they do best - making a bad situation worse - especially when they don't present any proof of their claims. --Coredesat 05:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

  Its a shame to see such a good editor leave in such undeserving circumstances. The Sunshine Man 10:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"I don't know why you all are blaming ColScott" Very simple he released the needed info to allow GNAA to threaten someones family. Both need stopping with legal action to protect editors on wikipedia. I also highly object to Ryulong closing this topic. This whole case has not been handled with the care for the editors it deserve, its pathetic quite frankly. Hypnosadist 09:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Tom harrison

Friends, there is still more bad news. Having lost H - whose very username speaks eloquently to the problems we're facing - it now seems we're losing Tom harrison..Proabivouac 10:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the bottom line is that as volunteers, we are always going to left out to hang by the foundation (unless you made a legal threat against it, then it would spring into action), so people need to edit with that in mind. Make sure your username is not connected to your real name and better still - create a profile that is full of lies (pretend to be a religious scholar maybe?). The lessons from this is - you are on your own, while people at the foundation pay a salary off your labours, they don't got your back (unless you are legal action threating troll). --Fredrick day 10:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

True that! 10:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Tom harrison isn't "gone", but he is not pleased about the situation with H...nor am I, and that puts it very mildly. Not to speak for him, but I think he's just a bit disgusted with a number of issues, as addressed on his userpage. I know the Foundation has been helpful in some circumstances, especially those related to off-wiki harassment and death threats. I hope H asks for assistance from the Foundation as I would be extremely surprised if they ignored him.--MONGO 10:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

So, we're all not pleased. What are we going to do, queue up to wait our turn to quietly resign? If we can't even community ban User:ColScott, or implement a zero-tolerance policy towards this kind of crap per Hypnosadist above, then why exactly shouldn't we be serially harassed off of Misplaced Pages, or leave on our own?

I want to see some substantive action. ColScott is a terminally abusive user who has caused real damage to our community and must be permabanned. with a capital P and B. In fact, any user who maliciously harasses other editors must be banned. We owe it to our volunteers.Proabivouac 11:40, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I've been out of the loop for a while. Just spent the past 40 mins reviewing all of this and I'm amazed at the way it was handled.--Jersey Devil 12:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I've been assured on IRC that ColScott will never be unblocked. He is an accessory before the fact of this outrage, as Hypnosadist and Proabivouac mentioned. I would further argue for the following other remedies:

• The GNAA and its associated Websites should be added to the spam blacklist. This is worse, far worse than anything Dramatica ever did.
• Anyone who unblocks ColScott should be desysopped.
• There needs to be more teeth put into WP:HARASS to include off-wiki harassment.

While I think Bastique et al simply didn't know what these guys were capable of, now they do. Therefore, there is no excuse whatsoever not to do something and do something now.Blueboy96 12:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"I've been assured on IRC that ColScott will never be unblocked" then he may as well be PermBanned, the only reason not to do so is so at some point he can be unblocked.

"The GNAA and its associated Websites should be added to the spam blacklist" Good call i agree(and wonder why famous spamers were not on the spam black list?).

"There needs to be more teeth put into WP:HARASS to include off-wiki harassment" Good call as well, these are some good first steps to help protect editors. 12:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

In that case, there's no real need to discuss a community ban on ColScott. I've been accused of process wonkery before, but to my mind, certain bans are simple common sense that don't need to be discussed. The Foundation made a mistake--now they need to learn from it and fast. The last thing I want to see is another in-camera ArbCom hearing. Blueboy96 13:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think what all of you really need to do is to read the essay on Tom Harrison's page on what's wrong with Misplaced Pages, and really think about how the problems he discussed can be dealt with. I always see users leaving because of the same problems with Misplaced Pages, the same problems which are not dealt with. For more info, see Misplaced Pages:Reform. --Kaypoh 12:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Well this is very sad and disappointing. It's a big shame that there are people out there who engage in harassment and trolling at the expense of another human being's privacy and personal safety. However, I hope that Wikipedians think carefully about this and are not scare-mongered into making quick knee-jerk reactions with regards to policy. This event is bad enough without being cursed with hastily-written policy along the lines of "permaban anyone who does x or y!!". Aside from that, I don't see any need for people to 'officially' ban ColScott as he is banned, and doesn't appear to be the sole person to blame here. Kamryn Matika 00:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed ... as I mentioned earlier, ColScott is old-style banned--no admin in his right mind will ever unblock him (and I'm of the mind that any admin who does should be desysopped). I've also requested that the GNAA Web sites (yes, there's two of them--a U.S. and a UK version) be blacklisted, as per the precedent that resulted in Dramatica being blacklisted. Blueboy96 02:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:FatherTree Violating WP:Canvas policy

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

":You're definitely correct. I'm not sure he's active enough for a block to have an effect, but a short-term block (24 hours) might send a message to FatherTree that we take WP:CIVIL seriously. YechielMan 03:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)"

I know that DPeterson filed a related claim above. Now he is now engaged in WP:CANVAS, which is not ok as I read the statement. See diff: ] in response to an active mediation case at ] This violates the policy because it is biased and partisan.

Administrative action is required and I don't see how mediation can proceed if fishing is allowed RalphLender 16:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the details and background of your interactions and experiences here but your comment, in both content and form, does bear a striking similarity to DPeterson's comments above. It could be mere coincidence and I'm not making any accusations or insinuating anything. --ElKevbo 16:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

That is because I copied a lot of it here. I filed this after I saw that the person who was polled is now a staunch advocate for the group that recruited him. Now I wonder, should I go ahead and try to Canvas for supporters (not really, just expressing my frustration with that group). RalphLender 20:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually all he's really said so far is that AT is pseudoscience, and you agreed with him! Yechiel is not an admin by the way and said so on the ANI you copied. Fainites 21:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it does look like RalphLender copied most of my report regarding this dimension of it. However, my original filing is gone and this really needs to be addressed. If it considered ok, what FatherTree did, I'd like to know because then I will proceed as he did and search for editors who support my ideas just as he did. DPeterson 23:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

He wrote to one person. That doesn't really constitute canvassing. shotwell 23:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

By the policy on canvasing it does. DPeterson 01:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually you already did that DP. On the 13th May 07. See diffs provided below. Fainites 21:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Both RalphLender and DPeterson are involved in mediation with FatherTree and a group of other editors. There is suspicion of COI, socks and article ownership involved in this case, and this thread is one more case of the pot calling the kettle black in order to remove members of the opposition. I suspect that a detailed analysis of the edit histories of RalphLender and DPeterson would yield equal justification for blocks.FatherTree may or may not be guilty of WP:CANVAS, but this is a much bigger issue than that. Lsi john 01:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

There have been ample exploration of the "sockpuppet" issue (see: ] ] )

:*"A POV pusher will always interpret any disagreement to constitute proof the editors in question are members of a cabal."-Addhoc

• 'This fictitious cabal will obviously possess views directly opposed to the accusing editor, who will be remarkably willing to overlook contrary evidence."-Addhoc
• 'In this manner nearly every good faith editor will be accused of being a member of entirely contradictory cabals."-Addhoc

This continued knowlingly making false accusations is one of their tactics and should stop. DPeterson 01:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting observation

Now here is an interesting response to my post here by DPeterson.

I have always been told that it is appropriate to notify all the parties involved, when you are reporting them to 3RR or AN/I.

1. It seems that DPeterson considers it interference for someone to notify the involved parties that they are being discussed on AN/I.
2. It also seems that DPeterson is trying to bring in extra help by contacting admins.

This is an example which illustrates the reason I posted here to begin with.

If DPeterson's case is as legitimate as he wants us to believe, he should not feel threatened by an outside party contributing to the discussion. Lsi john 03:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I have complaind before about DPeterson et al's habit of not notifying people of ANI etc brought against them. Obviously to no effect. Fainites 08:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Fainites seems to be diverting from the real issue since he has no response to that point. DPeterson 11:39, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well perhaps if you told the people that you are filing against that you were filing against them you might get a more informed response. I don't see asking a suitably qualified editor who's not a wiki friend to help edit a page is 'canvassing'. I myself went to the psychology portal to find psychologists to see if any were interested in helping edit attachment pages. I thought that's what portals and things were for! There's no way of knowing who's side these people will be on. They may be ardent attachment therapists for all I know. Besides, DPeterson asked all his fellow editors to from the paedophile pages to help him out on the attachment page. Fainites 12:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the primary issue is that FatherTree violated wikipedia Canvas policy because it is a biased and partisan call. I suggest that Fainities read the policy before commenting. This is the issue in this AN/I...all other smoke put out by others is merely a diversion from this primary point that an administrator needs to evaluate. RalphLender 17:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

As I read the WP:CANVAS solicting is not ok in that this was biased and partisan. I think YechielMan suggestion that FatherTree be sanctioned by a block is appropriate. The Canvasing and other wikipedia policy violations are disruptive. MarkWood 19:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the previous comment. JohnsonRon 20:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I have read the policy and I do not believe asking one editor if they want to help edit on a topic is canvassing. Now this is canvassing. , , Fainites 20:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The suggestions to keep this focused on the primary issues and not be diverted by red herrings as Fainites seems to be doing is a good one. As previously stated, the primary issue is FatherTree's canvasing and FatherTrees making false accusations, which he knows are false, of sockpuppetry. DPeterson 21:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll repeat myself here, since it seems these charges were made in several places (which in and of itself could be construed as inappropriate). About canvassing, an arbitrator said: Briefly, I think a reasonable amount of communication about issues is fine. Aggressive propaganda campaigns are not. How can calling on one other editor to give his opinion be considered "aggressive propaganda"? It seems crystal clear to me that this falls into the "reasonable amount of communication about issues" category. Also, the purported sockpuppetry accusation was made in reply to a very similar accusation "It looks like the gang...er your group, sorry, is all coming out here now.", and the "accusation" is more to me like a musing: "How does anyone know that you are not Becker?" Nobody accused anybody of anything directly. These are flimsy, I would dare say inappropriate grounds for any block whatsoever. And, specifically to User:DPeterson: I believe Fainites already showed ample proof that yourself were definitely canvassing. This is starting to look more and more to me like someone is forum shopping in order to get some reprimand dished out on Father Tree.--Ramdrake 22:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. Forgot to mention it. There's a third ANI here - very similar. Fainites 22:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I filed one ANI. It appeared to be deleted, so I refiled it. another editor filed the third one. I suggest we focus on the primary issue of FatherTree's knowingly making false accusations of sockpuppetry and violating WP:CANVAS. If an administrator reviews these issues and finds fault and sanctions are put in place or it the administrator finds no basis, so be it. DPeterson 23:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I stress that the entire interaction, including priors on either side, should be the appropriate primary focus. That means your insinuations of "gang" action and your previous history of canvassing should also enter the equation, lest we get an incomplete picture of the situation.--Ramdrake 23:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The focus should be on the ANI issues: FatherTree's knowingly making false accusations of sockpuppetry and violating wiki WP:CANVAS. If an admin finds this baseless, so be it. If other want to raise other issues, they should do so in a separte filing. DPeterson 23:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I submit that keeping THREE (virtually identical) threads open, rather than asking for two of them to be closed, as duplicates, and updating them all at once with similar posts: here, here and here It sure looks like DPeterson is using these boards, repeatedly, in order to get the system to remove editors with which he is currently engaged in mediation and against editors who opened an RfC on him. Wait, wouldn't keeping multiple threads open across multiple boards be .. sort of like CANVASING? How about if an admin closes at least two of these, thanks! Lsi john 23:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I respond to other editors...I'll leave it to an administrator to decide how to handle the two I filed and the one another editor filed, focusing on the two issues: FatherTree's knowingly making false accusations of sockpuppetry and the canvasing issue. DPeterson 00:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Since each one gets a variety of comments from a variety of editors it may make sense to keep all open.-DPeterson (below) AKA CANVASSING

That pretty much confirms what I said about this issue. Thank you. Lsi john 00:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Now that the other is closed, we can focus on the issue of knowingly making false accusations.

*All other discussions aside, to address the actual topic, did User:FatherTree offer up anything more than that one comment? I believe the traditional idea behind the canvassing policy was to discourage people from spamming multiple areas and/or talk pages because it was a disruption. Asking one editor's opinion, even in a biased manner, wouldn't appear to qualify. If he continues the sockpuppet accusations I would make sure to remind him about the personal attacks policy; feel free to hit up my talk page if he doesn't stop the attacks. Shell 01:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

DPeterson 01:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

According to the diff link you provided at the start of this report, User:FatherTree never really accused you of being a sockpuppet; rather, he asked for some sign that you were different people indeed (" How does anyone know that you are not Becker?"") . That's totally different. Besides, your previous retort was: "It looks like the gang...er your group, sorry, is all coming out here now." which is basically an accusation of meatpuppeteering (which is the same as sockpuppeteering for WP's purposes). So, I would respectfully suggest you reconsider your complaint, or an admin may indeed deem that your offenses are more serious than FatherTree's. I know that's certainly what it looks like from here.--Ramdrake 02:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Might I also point out that neither DPeterson nor RalphLender notified Father Tree of any of these ANI's. He has done this before and I have complained to him about it before. One of the editors he canvassed in his support told me I had to watch the contribs! It is only because LsiJohn happened to notice it that anyone found out and I was able to post the links for FatherTree and other involved editors attention. I note that at the top of this page it says "As a courtesy, you should inform other users if they are mentioned in a posting". Is this therefore a breach of WP:CIVIL or perhaps some other policy? Fainites 20:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Fainites, don't stoop to his game. He has shown himself for what he is here, by opening three separate reports, by not informing the user he was reporting, by refusing to close two of them when asked, by ignoring an offer from an admin to help, by updating all three of the reports with similar information. The admins are not stupid, they will remember him next time. Let it go. Lsi john 21:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

OK Lsi. I wasn't actually filing an ANI you know! Spine still upright. Fainites 21:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Block the lot of you... for wasting a portion of my life reading this crap. Seriously... Take time out and give it a break. Thanks/wangi 21:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

There you all go again trying to divert the discussion from the primary issue: FatherTree knew that there had previosly been investigations into sockpuppetry that were unfounded and he continues to make those accusations despite knowing that these are false. This is clearly a personal attack and he should be sanctioned. I can see now that Fainities and others are trying to divert from the salient issue here and that they are continuing to add material in the hopes of provoking just the sort of frustration expressed by User Wangi. RalphLender 21:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

No. This started as both an accusation of WP:CANVAS and WP:NPA violations. Now that the accusation of WP:CANVAS has been proven patently false, you're hanging on to WP:NPA. Let's say you're right and he did violate WP:NPA. That warrants a warning, at most if it were true (which I personnally doubt); however, the exchange provided shows that there was provocation at the very least, so there are at least mitigating circumstances. That qualifies even less for even a simple warning. And nevertheless, there you go, demanding sanctions. I would respectfully suggest the lot of you demanding sanctions just drop the matter before you lose whatever little credibility you might have left still.--Ramdrake 22:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think now that at least one (or two?) administrators have weight in and feel that there is not enought here now to pursue or to institute sanctions, that this AN/I be closed. I would suggest that the original filer of this, RalphLender agree to drop or cancel this...whatever the correct action is. DPeterson 01:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Doug Coldwell (talk · contribs); original research, content forking, and material in userspace

I'm having a problem with an editor who has repeatedly tried to place his original research in a range of articles, and has now turned to content forking to achieve his goals.

On June 19, I nominated Francesco Dionigi, an article created by User:Doug Coldwell, for deletion (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Francesco Dionigi). He later copied a substantial portion of that article's text into a new article, Birthday of alpinism, which I have now nominated for deletion (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Birthday of alpinism). In my opinion, this is an evasion of the AfD process through content forking.

But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Doug maintains an impressive array of sandboxes in his user space. For instance, his sandbox 50 is an essay on the ancient Greek work eidos; he has tried to include bits of this in the articles idea, Theory of forms, and eidos (philosophy); when these attempts were rejected by other editors as original research or irrelevant, he created eidon (now up for deletion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Eidon). As another example, Doug created the article Good sense (now deleted) from material in his Sandbox 48 (most of the revisions have been deleted at his request); this material, somewhat reworked, has now shown up in Good will (philosophy). A set of sandboxes, User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_47, User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_63, User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_65, and User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_67 contains ideas related to the ancient Greek word Nous--which have shown up in Nous and Noema, among other articles. Note also that an anon IP, probably belonging to Doug, requested the creation of Divine Nous on June 8, after Doug had encountered stiff resistance to his edits on Nous; Doug now supports merging Divine Nous into Nous.

Doug does not agree that his articles are forks (see his comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Birthday of alpinism). I'd appreciate some outside opinions as to whether there's any policy violations here, including whether Doug's sandboxes are appropriate. --Akhilleus (talk) 18:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• • Comments regarding these points:
    • True, sandbox 50 is the article Eidon, which I worked out in a sandbox first before making it an article. However did not first try to put these ideas into other articles. I make edits to these other articles, but not on this particular subject.
    • true I do have an array of sandboxes to work out the articles first in a soadbox, however note most are deleted. Only the remaining are being now worked on.
      • You can go through my Contributions and see how I work and edit in the sandboxes. I make as many improvements as I can before I enter and make it a new article. You can see through the history how this went, then shortly therafter the new article was actually made. This sometimes actually makes an article so good in initial quality that ultimately there are few or no further improvements - example Petrarch's library and Palazzo Molina and Francesco Nelli and Petrarch's testamentum.
    • Sandbox 47 is the article Nous pretty much the way I worked it out in the sandbox. The points that I improved upon must not have been objectionable to other editors, since most of it is still there. The original article before I did a major overhaul was last edited on April 9. I did the overhaul (worked out in a sandbox first) on April23 - which most of that is still there to this day (so apparently other editors didn't object to most of it). Of course some edits have been done since then for additional improvements.
    • Sandbox 63 is the Noesis article worked out in this sandbox first. Yes, this part was later deleted.
    • Sandbox 65 is the article Noema which I did a major upgrade to on June 17 - no editor has objected or even made any edits to it since I did this major improvement.
    • Sandbox 67 is only dictionary definitions I made to this "new" sandbox of as June 16. I haven't even worked with this material yet since I just obtained it.
    • Birthday of alpinism is a completely different subject that Francesco Dionigi which is explained in Talk of the prior. They happen to have common denominators that couldn't be avoided in the new article. If different references are desired, I can certainly furnish that. The article so far has received nothing but Keep from other editors.
      • Its interesting since these Keep votes have come in --Akhilleus has made several improvement edits to this article he nominated to be deleted.
    • I agreed with merging Divine Nous with Nous to go along with the other editors to expide the process. If I would have objected, then there would of course been an objection to this. So to make matters simplier and to expide this I figured this was the best procedure. It really doesn't matter with me if Divine Nous is merged, not merged, or deleted. Whichever they feel they want to do with the article is fine by me because it looks like Nous pretty well covers all the points anyway. I was just trrying to help matters by going along with everyone else. Whereever they want my vote on this is fine by me, since it doesn't matter to me. I haven't put in a vote one way or the other on the article or edited it.
    • Other articles I have started (many of which are few or no edits) are on my User page - mostly concerned with Petrarch.--Doug 19:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
• Sandbox 50 has many deleted revisions that are substantially similar to Doug's contribution to Eidos (philosophy) (). Doug tried to include similar material in idea () and theory of forms (). Doug's changes have been objected to on the talk pages of those articles (e.g. , ), and some have been reverted. After most of the material that Doug contributed to Eidos (philosophy) was removed , Doug started the article eidon, which is so close to the removed material from eidos (philosophy) that it's a content fork. --Akhilleus (talk) 20:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes I did make major improvements to the article Idea starting on May 15 - most of which are still there to this day (so apparently other editors are not objecting).
    

Here are some example parts I added for improvements that are still there and were not there before I added them and are not being objected to:

History of the term "Idea"

Where ideas come from

Francesco Petrarch

René Descartes

John Locke additions

David Hume additions

Immanuel Kant additions

picture of "Walk of Ideas"

Wilhelm Wundt additions

Validity of ideas

Many additional references and sources added with inline citations and footnotes - including new Bibliography. Basically all the References now on the article are what I contributed. The article previously did not have a Reference section - I provided all the references - a major improvement.--Doug 20:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• • • P.S. Forgot about the parts where I expanded the "See Also" section and added the links to

Wikisource

Wikibooks

Wikiquote

Wikiversity

--Doug 21:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• Whether you've improved Idea is discussed at Talk:Idea. As you know, because you were part of the discussion, not everyone thinks you've improved the article. However, the reason I started the discussion here is not because of your edits to Idea in and of themselves; it's because you're creating articles like Birthday of alpinism and eidon as content forks. --Akhilleus (talk) 21:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Look at it this way - its obvious that I am trying to make major improvements to Misplaced Pages as is shown by my work. Perhaps I don't get every little rule correct, however assume good faith. If I broke a rule somewhere, it wasn't intentional. I am not trying to put in any particular "ideas" that others are objecting to. If they object to something I put in, I just let them take it out and leave it be. Its just not that important to me rather it is there or not. Most however is not objected to and is still there, so it must be alright. If you don't like something I added to an article, just take it out - I really don't care. There are so many articles to work on that I am too busy anyway to be concerned with nit-pick items. I didn't see you objecting to these points I added to the article Idea. As I already explained in the Talk section of Birthday of alpinism, this is entirely a different article with "different" viewpoints. If you want different references (being the only content items similar to the two articles), then just let me know and I will obtain them for the same material, since there are many references on this material. Eidon is also a differnt article (or anyway I thought it was when I initially wrote it), however you feel they are close - so my suggestion is then why not merge them to make one good article since Eidos is now a stub. It obvious by the quality of my articles that my intentions are to write excellent articles - which apparently I have since most are not edited much. There are some however that do get a fair amount of activity and become an outstanding article from what I started - example being Aemilia Tertia. So my friend whatever you want to do with Divine Nous, Nous, Eidon, or Eidos, it really doesn't matter to me. I have bigger and better things to do. My next major improvement will be on Giovanni Boccaccio and the article On Famous Women - so I thought I would give you a heads start on this one. FYI: I am the one that found the ISBN number for it.--Doug 21:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This is the second article I have seen by Doug Coldwell in two days. They are both empty pieces of nonsense, formed about a small fact, and bolstered by irrelevant references. This editor is seriously disruptive. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• Not quite sure what you are referring to on edits however here are a few in the last couple of days

1. Petrarch - Added that Cicero, Virgil, and Seneca were his literary models.)
2. History of Rome of a similar climb by Philip of Macedon, the same who waged war against the Romans (ascended Mount Haemus in Thessaly).

These are not exactly "disruptive" edits, however are constructive. In addition, you can see the quality of my articles I have started and work on.--Doug 23:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary: this edit, small though it is, is destructive and incompetent guesswork. "Philip of Macedon, the same who waged war against the Romans" is an (uncredited) quote from Petrarch; leaving out the quotation marks was already irresponsible. But that Philip is not Philip II of Macedon, as actually reading Misplaced Pages's article on him would have told Coldwell; Macaulay's schoolboy would have known it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This is strong language, and I was testy when I posted it; but, upon consideration, I cannot call any of the words here wrong. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 13:53, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, it is true I did a major upgrade and major improvements to the article Nous on April 23. If you compare what I added, it turns out most of that also is still there to this day (so apparently has not been objected to by other editors). These are the Sections that were not there before that I added for improvements that are still there as major improvements:

Anaxagoras

Plato

Aristotle

Alexander of Aphrodisias

Neoplatonism

Plotinus

Augustinian Neoplatonism

The Section originally called "History" with identically the same wording has been relabeled "Overview of usage by ancient Greeks" and moved to the top. These are all major improvements which are still there to this day which no editors are objecting to. Of course there has been some additional edits to improvement my major improvements, which is to be expected (since there is always room for improvement). My major improvements have been then a springboard for other editors to work from, which they have. The previous edit before my major improvements was on April 9, which then was basically a stub with no references. It is now a full good quality article with the major improvements I made (which have been improved upon even more). The part of certain IP addresses of Divine Nous "probably belonging to Doug" is just that, a guess. There has been 5 different IP addresses that have worked on Divine Nous. I noticed that Nous, the article I made all these major improvements to, was flagged that perhaps Divine Nous should be merged with it. My first choice would be to delete Divine Nous, however had I said that there would of course been an objection. So since there only 4 choices here (merge, no merge, delete, keep) I chose to merge since this apparently was what the other editors wanted, so I went along with them. Whichever vote they want from me on that article I will be glad to give, if I knew what they wanted without an objection.

If you go through the last 2000 edits I did in my Contributions you can see the parttern is that I work out an article first in a sandbox. Then when all the bugs have been worked out and all the improvements added, I then make it a new article (or a major section improvement to an existing article). This then produces quality and there are few (if any) further edits needed for some time for these major improvements made. Also you can see the many other improvements I have made to many other articles (from ice cream to botanical gardens to science to history) as well as much vandelism reverted. There are times these improvements are then even improved further, which is the way it should be.--Doug 11:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

In other words, you don't edit cooperatively. This is a wiki; the product of several minds is usually better than one. And when your "improvement" is justly criticized, as at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Francesco Dionigi, youi create another article with the same information and the same sources, and lie about it. The temptation to do so must be strong; that is a lot of work to waste; but it would be better to edit cooperatively from the beginning. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 13:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd say I edit in a very cooperative manner and try to please as many other Wikipedians as I can. Ultimately I won't be able to please all, however most times I can please most others. I have noticed that certain areas are however more sensitive than others, in particular religion and philosophy. One example, in these other fields, where recently an editor felt I wrote up an article that looked like an advertisement for a historical society. That was not intentional when I wrote up the article, since I have no connections to the society (therefore no motive). Anyway I rewrote the article (in cooperation with other editor requests) so that it didn't look like an advertisement, which completely satisfied all the other editors. That article is Mason County Historical Society. Other articles that I have started that have been expanded and improved much, that I contributed again to in cooperation with other Wikipedians, that ultimately produced a quality article are:

• Aemilia Tertia
• Self-guided tour
• Weymouth New Testament
• De Viris Illustribus (Petrarch)
• Genealogia deorum gentilium
• Epistolae familiares
  

Other articles that I work on often in full cooperation with other Wikipedians are:

• Harpers Ferry National Historical Park
• Poplar Forest
• North Carolina Transportation Museum
• Atalaya Castle (all pictures are mine)
• Brookgreen Gardens - my favorite botanical gardens
• Petrarch - my favorite subject
• Boccaccio - second most favorite subject
• Africa (Petrarch)
• Montpelier (James Madison)
• Self storage (place of employment)
• Club Med - where I travel often.
• Carrom - favorite game as a child
• Ludington, Michigan - place where I would like to retire to.
• Ludington State Park - favorite state park
• Montpelier (James Madison) - favorite presidential historical house
• Biltmore Estate - tourist attraction I visit often
• Williamsburg - favorite tourist attraction (videos are mine)
• 1964 New York World's Fair - personally went there then (contributed several pictures to Wikicommons)
• Street light interference - my favorite science project.
• oatmeal - my favorite food.
• ice cream - my favorite desert.
• Scipio Africanus - my favorite ancient history subject (except maybe for Plato and Aristotle)
• Second Punic War - favorite historical war event
  

There are several more articles I work on in full cooperation with several other Wikipedians, however the list would get too long if put here.--Doug 17:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

In this case, you may get a more productive result out of a request for comment than out of the Admin noticeboard, as there does not seem to be a clear-cut policy violation. I would recommend listing it there and seeing what sort of comments come out of the woodwork. Pastordavid 16:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, does seem to be turning into one, doesn't it? I will be busy for a few days; if someone else write one, please post here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism

How about copying right out of the Encyclopedia Britannica? Compare the earliest revision of Genealogia deorum gentilium (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Genealogia_deorum_gentilium&oldid=106348439)--"Boccaccio's on the genealogy of the gods of the gentiles is a scholarly interpretive compendium of classical myth... It was the first ever in a very long line of Renaissance mythographies." and the Encyclopedia Britannica article on Humanism: "His De genealogia deorum gentilium (“On the Genealogy of the Gods of the Gentiles”), a scholarly interpretive compendium of classical myth, was the first in a long line of Renaissance mythographies;..." That's a direct quote, copied into Misplaced Pages without attribution; given Doug's seeming unfamiliarity with research standards I believe he was unaware that was he was doing was incorrect, but it is plagiarism and copyright violation nonetheless. I have to wonder if the same problem is present in other articles he's written. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that, it was unintentional. I often work from the 1911 Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, which text I understand is public domain. If you found certain text from Encyclopedia Britannica that you think is copyright, could you please remove it as perhaps I placed it there by mistake thinking it was public domain text -or- make the correct reference to what it should be. Normally if I know some text is copyright I make the appropriate reference and give credit where it should be. Example on the article Street Light Interference I quote Hilary Evans on page 16 as to What seems most likely to be happening in this phenomenon and placed it in quoteblocks - which to the other editors I am working with on this article seem to think is the correct procedure. So if you find where I accidently placed some text that is copyright someplace, please make the correct references or let me know so I can correct.--Doug 19:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Public Domain status doesn't mean it's not plagarism. You still must attribute the words of Thomas Paine or Shakespeare to their authors. I suggest, quite seriously, you research plagarism as it applies ot the writing of papers and such. You've probably got an old high school/college copy of Strunk & White's somewhere, might be worth keeping it at hand as you continue to edit Misplaced Pages. ThuranX 22:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"Britannica", in this case, did not mean the 1911 Britannica; the text was copied from this page, which is copyright 2007. There's little doubt that the text was copied from that page, because it was one of the external links in the original version of Genealogia deorum gentilium. --Akhilleus (talk) 00:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

As you can see in my other articles I do give credit if it is copyright material - two such examples are in Francescuolo da Brossano in addition to the examples in Street Light Interference described above. The material for the major section additions I added above to Nous and Idea were public domain text. I referenced this as such at the bottom. Article of Idea has a very extensive Reference section now that I added, where there was nothing before I made the major improvements to the article. The article on May 14 was tagged as not having any references - so I provided many. I do 1000's of edits and apparently at that monent thought it was the 1911 public domain text of Britannica. I realize it was a short sentence, however should have been credited accordingly anyway. Thanks for noticing this and removing the text. I'll watch it closer in the future.--Doug 20:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can only agree that Doug's edits have been disruptive and damaging to the quality of the encyclopedia. When I nominated some of Doug's work on Jerome's De viris illustribus for deletion, I provided some documentation of his original research agenda (for example, to prove that the New Testament was written only several hundred years ago). More recently, at Talk:Divine_Nous (diff), Doug has denied any connection to anonymous IP edits from his area of Michigan that are very obviously him. I think this should be investigated, and that his lies to make himself look better/different should be weighed in any evaluation of how he participates in the Misplaced Pages community. I warmly embrace the amateur nature of the Misplaced Pages project, but Doug is a crackpot, not an amateur. He edits and creates many articles about ancient Greek philosophical ideas, not because he is interested in them or knows anything about them, but because they fit into his original-research project. Most recently, after I called successfully for the deletion of "Good sense" Doug has put the same dubious, half-understood, error-riddled, and often nonsensical material at several other articles (Idea, Nous, Divine Nous, Eidos (philosophy), etc.). These contributions have been thrown together by a method totally contrary to any integrity; they are full of footnotes, but in fact the citations (I've looked some up in my library!) often do not justify Doug's original-research statements, and Doug culls indiscriminately from any bad source (he treats ref-desk answers as fact; he has recently been treating John Opsopaus as an actual source for ancient Greek ideas, as in a recent attempt to get yet another fork going at Noesis!), so that it's much worse than nothing. The few expert editors out there (I don't claim to be an expert in Neoplatonism, but like Akhilleus I know ancient Greek) struggle to keep up with and contain these messes. In the history of my involvement with Misplaced Pages, I have generally been content to see quality material build up; Doug's projects stand out as the only counter-argument that seems to say, "Misplaced Pages doesn't work; a small team of expert classicists is not enough to keep several articles from reflecting garbage ideas from one problem user, which the community has no effective way to keep up with." I'd love to be proven wrong and see the system do something here, & send the message that if the scholars on Misplaced Pages express unanimous dismay about bad material, it can count for something, & that the system will work and keep the bad material from spreading and lingering. Wareh 02:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Goguryeo-China Wars --> Military history of Goguryeo_Military_history_of_Goguryeo-2007-06-21T19:32:00.000Z">

Admins, some Chinese ultranationalists accused Korean Wikipedians here as being ultranationalists for naming the article Goguryeo-China Wars so because it sounds "anti-Chinese" or something. Others said that had to be it because Goguryeo won most of the battles & KPOV wanted to put emphasis on winning over China. I personally think that some Chinese editors here are just paranoiac.

And then come here anti-Korean Japanese editors (the same ones who sweat in Liancourt Rocks, Sensaku Islands, etc. & also Korea-China disputes such as Mount Baekdu & Heavenly Lake). They're mostly in WikiProject Japan, but you know what they love to mess around with Korean business. One of them even claims to be a Korean, but all of us know that's a lie. Now, I'm not breaking good faith b/c good faith means assumption. These guys are beyond assumption & "we" know them by heart. They haven't participated in the discussion, but they're like "it's neutral." "it avoids further conflicts". The problem is that they've done this in almost all Korea-China disputed articles. And I guess when I accuse them of being simply anti-Korean, they shrug off, "doing the right thing gets criticism sometimes."

The following is what I wrote, and none of them in the discussion have been effectively able to counter them.

• "Two wrongs don't make a right. There is no reason to rename this article to "Military history of Goguryeo" just because of this trash logic that Goguryeo is a constituent of China and therefore cannot war China - simply b/c the two do not link, and there are so many better options."
• "Everyone should know better that a country's military history is not defined by its single war with another country."

• Let me elaborate. If you wanted to write a military history article on Goguryeo, then you should include weapons, traditions, strategies, and chronology, etc. But the CPOV editors just can't tolerate an article in which Goguryeo is successful against many modern-day China constituents & when the article title specifically states China (it's really out of convenience & practicality) as the opposing country, so they change it to military history. Then it's not neutral because the military history is seen from Chinese viewpoint, and China is not the universal meter for military histories of other countries. (Wikimachine 19:38, 21 June 2007 (UTC))_Military_history_of_Goguryeo"> _Military_history_of_Goguryeo">

• "Second, the consensus is that Goguryeo is a Korean country. See Britannica, etc. above."
• "Third, you cannot use WP:RM to test ethnic neutrality (that is, the CPOV editors are trying to use this naming dispute to overturn the consensus that Goguryeo is a Korean country)."
• "Fourth, even a constituent state can fight its containing entity. For example, war between Hawaii and U.S. Even then, Goguryeo (even if you were to consider the Chinese tributary system, everyone knows that this didn't mean Chinese control but just diplomatic relations) was a separate country anyways. And it doesn't matter which tribes and people constitute which countries - as long as they're separate countries."
• "Fifth, there are so many better options: 1) Get rid of this article & categorize other related articles 2) Remain at this article's title 3) Choose another title similar to this"

Thanks. (Wikimachine 19:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC))_Military_history_of_Goguryeo"> _Military_history_of_Goguryeo">

• Another reason: Always there are bound to be a loser & a winner in a war. (Wikimachine 19:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC))

Wikimachine, I do not feel that you should get emotional over this. Chances are, administrators will not pay attention if you do. This problem can be fixed, but only if we stay cool.

Anyways, I would like to comment that the only thing I am not pleased with is how we are not getting any outside help and how some editors are not punished for their actions. We have repeatedly requested third opinions and an RfC yet few editors and administrators have commented. However, I do agree that this subject is not something most administrators know about and may be uncomfortable. One third opinionist told me that he got "smacked in the chops" for commenting.

I find that several editors are not helping us reach a compromise and that their attitudes and goals in Misplaced Pages are preventing us from getting a consensus. I am hoping that at least Wikimachine's post on the noticeboard will wave a flag for administrators to come and help bring some stability and compromise in Goguryeo-related articles. Good friend100 19:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a content dispute. Misplaced Pages administrators aren't here to solve content disputes. The Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes page describes the detailed and comprehensive dispute resolution system, which is peopled by decent caring human beings. Misplaced Pages administrators aren't decent caring human beings; you really don't want the kind of dispute resolution we bring. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added a military history wikiproject banner on the page and am about to add a link to the projects talk page so other milhist editors can help this article. Hypnosadist 20:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)_Military_history_of_Goguryeo"> _Military_history_of_Goguryeo">

Lummee, "Ultranationalists... It's a mad, MAD world! LessHeard vanU 21:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"Low lives"...

What is the policy for off-wiki collaboration and insults? I was one of the proud creators of the featured Macedonia (terminology) that thankfully solved the long standing edit wars over Macedonia-related articles. Hell, I am Greek, and I do have my views; but I don't consider myself a partisan. Now I am accused of being a "low life" for reverting an addition to Macedonians (ethnic group) that is based on a proven falsified pseudo-scientific study: The Arnaiz-Villena controversy, which was persistently inserted as "The Ultimate Truth" in the said article (among others)! The worst part is that many editors attacked sourced edits in various related articles the last few days in apparent collaboration (which is evident from their chat on the link above -do read it please):

• Alexander the great1 (talk · contribs) (this is obviously the user that "was blocked for reverting...")
• MatriX (talk · contribs)
• Jabbalzar (talk · contribs)
• Balkan balkan (talk · contribs) (sock of Alexander the great1), see here Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Uuttyyrreess
• Uuttyyrreess (talk · contribs) (also a sockpuppeteer)

The articles concerned were:

• Republic of Macedonia - to exclude the second official language of the country (Albanian), which was sourced by Britannica
• Macedonians (ethnic group) - adding genetic theories that Greeks have sub-Saharan genes
• List of divided nations - that Macedonia (region) should equal Macedonia (country) (the irredentist United Macedonia concept)
• Aegean Macedonia - blanking because the content is not according to the doctrines
• Macedonian Scientific and Literary Society - to forcefully state that it was comprised only by Slavs
• Alexander the Great - to delete that he self-identified as Greek
• Persistent removals of Albanian language name from virtually all cities of the Republic of Macedonia, even if they are primarily inhabited by Albanians.

The last thing I ever wished is to start all over again bitching about who's grandpa relates to king Philip of Macedon (like it's supposed to make any difference in your IQ)... Please examine. NikoSilver 00:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Update: The discussion there continues unobstructed , now even with:

• posting lists of the said articles for organized reverts
• calling more names such as "plague or virus , infecting the place", that me and other users are paid agents of the Greek and Bulgarian governments (!)
• discussing promoting "Macedonian academics" to "moderator status" currently occupied by the Greeks (I really know of only one Greek admin -User:Yannismarou)
• creating WP:POVFORKs such as "Macedonians (point of view from modern Macedonians)"
• Legal threats: "a class-action lawsuit (perhaps a Cease and Desist to start with) against the Racism and Bias contained in WikiPedia might get some attention"

...and many more. Please give a look, the issue is very serious. NikoSilver 12:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Uh, ugly. Nationalist web forums as a place for coordinating POV-pushing campaigns. We've seen it before. Nothing good can ever be expected from editors who come to Misplaced Pages from such sites. Of course, it's probably happening all the time anyway, be it on open or private forums. Such activities should be nipped in the bud, where possible. Would support good long blocks on the ringleaders at least. -- Can anyone translate those nice plans they were making? "Ajde da napravime tekst koj sto ke si go cuvame lokalno na nasite PC-a i celo vreme za INAT na grckite i blgarskite nazi kopilinja ke im go prepravame .... copy / paste ? Hmm ?? Ili mislite deka ne vredi ?" Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Translated: "Let us make a local copy of some text on our PCs and just out of SPITE to the Greek and Bulgarian bastards modify the articles - copy /paste? Hmm? Or you think it is not useful?" Mr. Neutron 22:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I just indefinitely blocked User:Balkan balkan as a sockpuppet of User:Alexander the great1, since both accounts had been involved in edit warring. The edit warring seems to have died down on the articles NikoSilver listed, but if it starts again I'd be inclined to treat newly arrived edit warriors as meatpuppets. --Akhilleus (talk) 16:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Alexander the great1 is now threatening with personal attacks and continued edit warring:

I know wiki is just a joke , but i am also willing to give hell and nightmare to those that steal and corrupt what is ours ! Break their hands !. I think he should get blocked for that. Mr. Neutron 17:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User:FatherTree making false accusations of sockpuppetry and other problems

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

• Holy crap how many places is this open? See above Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:FatherTree_Violating_WP:Canvas_policy. Shell 03:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User:FatherTree is making false accusations of my being a sockpuppet. see diff: ] Heis knowingly make false accusations of my being a sockpuppet, while we are in a mediation (]) Evidence of not being a sockpuppet:

1. ]
2. ]

I don't see how we can mediate these issues at this time with this behavior. He is clearly an SPA on this article. I'd like him to stop making false accusations. Administrative action is required. DPeterson 01:31, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

You're definitely correct. I'm not sure he's active enough for a block to have an effect, but a short-term block (24 hours) might send a message to FatherTree that we take WP:CIVIL seriously. YechielMan 03:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'd appreciate that. DPeterson 11:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

He is now engaged in WP:CANVAS, which is not ok as I read the statement. See diff: ] DPeterson 01:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

How many different threads are you and yours going to start about this topic? By my count, this is at least the third one that is currently active (one being a few sections up on this very page and the other at AN). At what point do your own actions become akin to canvassing or forum shopping? And how does FatherTree's one message to one editor constitute "canvassing?" That seems to be a pretty weak case, IMHO. Are there other recent examples you can show of his or her alleged canvassing activities? --ElKevbo 01:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I reentered this AN/I because the first one was no longer on this list and no action had yet occurred, although administrator YechielMan had discussed taking administrative action. DPeterson 02:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Again, here, DPeterson is involved in mediation for very polarized articles. Perhaps he feels that if he brings enough litigation, eventually something will stick? You reported the WP:CANVAS already above, why are you repeating it here if not for cumulative effect?

DPeterson, from what I can read from the mediation, you have been stalling it and it will end up at Arbcom. This is a mediation issue, not an administrator issue. I know there is a term for your wiki-lawyering and litigation, but at the moment it escapes me. Perhaps someone else can provide it. Lsi john 03:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting observation (duplicate from above, since this report seems to be an extension of the one above).

Now here is an interesting response to my post (above), by DPeterson.

I have always been told that it is appropriate to notify all the parties involved, when you are reporting them to 3RR or AN/I.

1. It seems that DPeterson considers it interference for someone to notify the involved parties that they are being discussed on AN/I.
2. It also seems that DPeterson is trying to bring in extra help by contacting admins.

This is an example which illustrates the reason I posted here to begin with.

If DPeterson's case is as legitimate as he wants us to believe, he should not feel threatened by an outside party contributing to the discussion. Lsi john 03:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

DPeterson has called those who disagree with him meatpuppets and a 'gang'. He constantly makes personal attacks on other editors, accusing them of having a financial interest and the like. The other editors who support DPeterson often make the same accusation. The talkpages are cluttered with it and sensible discussion of content becomes difficult. He also canvbassed other editors from totally unrelated paedophile pages to come and help him out , , , (just a sample) with the result that several appeared on the RfC and accused those who oppose DPeterson of being in collusion with pro-paedophiles! ANI's about this frequent abuse of policies have not been filed, presumably because we are about to enter mediation. This is all just wikilawyering. I have raised with him before his habit of not notifying others of ANI's or 3RR reports but obviously to no effect. Fainites 06:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Fainites and his supporters appear to be diverting from the issue regarding one of their group because they have no response to the direct charge: FatherTree has knowingly made false accusations of my being a sockpuppet and has been canvasing(originally filed by another editor). I filed the AN/I to get a response, one editor did suggest action against FatherTree. I filed that one again when it was deleted. DPeterson 11:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well as I understand it the sockpuppet report filed some time ago on this allegation was declined, so it was not investigated and resolved so I don't see how Father Trees question as to whether you are in fact Becker-Weidman is 'knowingly false'. The previous checkuser showed no link, but that's not the same thing. I agree that sockpuppet accusations should not be part of mediation. That's why your accusation that people who opposed you were meatpuppets was removed from the mediation referral page, remember? Time for a bit of pot and kettle scrubbing I think. Fainites 12:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

" I filed the AN/I to get a response, one editor did suggest action against FatherTree. I filed that one again when it was deleted."-DPeterson

Typically if a discussion gets deleted with only one editor voicing any support, it indicates that the post did not get sufficient support to warrant action. By reposting virtually the same complaint again in two active discussions on this same board, it's starting to look to me like you are improperly using the litigation process to remove editors with opposing views. Lsi john 15:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The issue is that FatherTree knowingly made a false accusation of sockpuppetry. He'd been warned about this and directed to the appropriate page to show that the accusation was unfounded. Yet he continued to make the accusations and so there is a valid basis for this filing. Then there is the second issue of FatherTree violating WP:CANVAS. All other diversions by editors here are just that; diversions from the two salient points: FatherTree violated wikipedia policy and that issue must be addressed by an Administrator. RalphLender 17:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually FatherTree is asking DPeterson if he is Becker-Weidman. There would be nothing wrong as such in Becker-Weidman editing under a different name. Fainites 17:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Knowlingly making false accusations of sockpuppetry is a personal attack and violates Misplaced Pages policy and practice. It is disruptive. That is the issue.The issue is that FatherTree knowingly made a false accusation of sockpuppetry. He'd been warned about this and directed to the appropriate page to show that the accusation was unfounded. Yet he continued to make the accusations and so there is a valid basis for this filing. Then there is the second issue of FatherTree violating WP:CANVAS. All other diversions by editors here are just that; diversions from the two salient points: FatherTree violated wikipedia policy and that issue must be addressed by an Administrator.RalphLender 17:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

And if DPeterson is Becker-Weidman, wouldn't that be a fairly significant issue related to undisclosed COI? It seems to me that continuing to open AN/I threads about the same user and the same issue, is doing exactly what you claim that other editors are doing? That is: trying to distract and derail the mediation process either by making issues where none exist, or by making them seem bigger than they are.

Based on some comments made on a current thread at the community sanctions board, it would not be a stretch to suggest that anyone who works (or volunteers) in a particular field should be community banned from editing articles in their respective field, due to Conflict of Interest. (For the record, I think that is a bit of a stretch, but it is in line with some of the comments there). However, I do feel that inquiring as to whether or not you (or DPeterson) are a practicing professional in the field is a very reasonable question. I believe there have been some questions raised about an IP that edited one of the articles (without logging in) that was similar to a professional's company website? Lsi john 18:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that Lsi john's accusing DPeterson and Becker-Weidman being sockpuppets of each other (your question really is a not so subtle accusation) is uncalled for and in the same league as FatherTree's: it is a false accusation and since you know that there have been previous investigations of that accusation that resulted in their being unfounded, you are knowingly making a false accusation.

I agree with RalphLender that diversions, such as the one by Lsi john are just that, diversions from the focal issue: FatherTree's violation of Misplaced Pages policy. As I read the WP:CANVAS solicting is not ok in that this was biased and partisan. I think YechielMan suggestion that FatherTree be sanctioned by a block is appropriate. The Canvasing and other wikipedia policy violations are disruptive. MarkWood 19:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Easy there big feller, put your horses back in the barn. I'm not accusing anyone. I'm not even asking the question. I said that I felt it was was a reasonable question to ask. DPeterson seems to have a decidedly similar (identical?) POV regarding the issue to Becker-Weidman. As I understand it, Becker-Weidman is a doctor? who would have a real conflict of interest in editing articles here on the subject. Has it been established that the wiki-user Becker-Weidman and the real person the same? I've only been casually following the situation. It certainly seems as if there is a close knit group of professionals? who share the same opinion, and who seem to be fighting pretty hard to maintain the articles in a preferred version, against another group who seems to be claiming they have sources to back up their edits but aren't being allowed to make them. If the wiki-user Becker-Weidman is the person, I would assume that he has not been editing the articles. If that's the case, has DPeterson ever made a single edit which disagreed with Becker-Weidman's position? I'm not aware of any two people who universally agree on any single subject. Lsi john 20:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The promotion of Becker-Weidman and his therapy across a range of articles is an issue within the mediation that has been accepted by the mediators. Both of the diffs from FatherTree that you provided involve asking DPeterson if he is Becker-Weidman. A not unreasonable question to ask. Fainites 19:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I must agree with the other editors who say to keep the discussion focused on the issues of FatherTree's alleged canvasing and personal attacks. The '"innocent"' question is clearly meant to provoke and is clearly an accusation. As said by others, anything else is just distracting from the real issues. JohnsonRon 20:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Note: JohnsonRon seems to have a considerable number of edits in the involved articles. Lsi john 20:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Considering three distinct threads were started by the same individual about the same dispute, considering the flimsy grounds of the complaint, and also considering the complainant himself is guilty of the very same issues he accuses another editor, I suggest that User:DPeterson be the one blocked for harrassment, incivility, canvassing and all around general bad faith.--Ramdrake 22:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I filed one. It appeared to be deleted, so I refiled it. another editor filed the third one. I suggest we focus on the primary issue of FatherTree's knowingly making false accusations of sockpuppetry and violating WP:CANVAS. If an administrator reviews these issues and finds fault and sanctions are put in place or it the administrator finds no basis, so be it. DPeterson 23:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, I had seen the two threads here on AN/I but had not noticed the third copy on AN. With THREE (virtually identical) threads open, and, rather than asking for two of them to be closed, as duplicates, DPeterson is updating them all at once with the same posts: here, here and here It sure looks like DPeterson is using these boards, repeatedly, in order to get the system to remove editors with which he is currently engaged in mediation and against editors who opened an RfC on him. Wait, wouldn't keeping multiple threads open across multiple boards be .. sort of like CANVASING? Lsi john 23:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Since each one gets a variety of comments from a variety of editors it may make sense to keep all open. I'll leave it to an administrator to decide how to handle the two I filed and the one another editor filed, focusing on the two issues: FatherTree's knowingly making false accusations of sockpuppetry and the canvasing issue. DPeterson 00:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Since each one gets a variety of comments from a variety of editors it may make sense to keep all open.-DPeterson AKA CANVASSING

The issue of FatherTree knowinlgy making false accusations of sockpuppetry is responded to by this administrator:

*All other discussions aside, to address the actual topic, did User:FatherTree offer up anything more than that one comment? I believe the traditional idea behind the canvassing policy was to discourage people from spamming multiple areas and/or talk pages because it was a disruption. Asking one editor's opinion, even in a biased manner, wouldn't appear to qualify. If he continues the sockpuppet accusations I would make sure to remind him about the personal attacks policy; feel free to hit up my talk page if he doesn't stop the attacks. Shell 01:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

DPeterson 01:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ooook - you copied this here, did you intend to respond to my query? Shell 02:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

DPeterson, can I be more clear? Repeatedly posting the same comments in multiple Admin threads on this board and AN is CANVASING and SHOPPING. Knock it off. Lsi john 02:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Lava_lamp

I understand that there is some sort of copyright issue going on, but that isn't my concern. My concern is that I found it using Special:shortpages, even though there is an invisible comment which states it is supposed to avoid that list. Is there something going on?--Flamgirlant 02:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• It's been blanked due to OTRS actions for almost a week now. However, the 'short pages' comment-text was only added today & as the short pages page itself is populated from a snapshot of cache, it took its 'snapshot' of the page when it was at 0 bytes. - Alison ☺ 02:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• I see. So as long as it never hits zero, it should be fine, right? --Flamgirlant 02:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• Yep. Don't ask what that threshold is, though, as I've no idea! :) - Alison ☺ 02:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The threshhold for appearing ont he shortpages list is a moving target, but currently is tending to be around 106 characters. The key is that the cached versions only lists 1,000 pages. So it includes the shortest 1,000 pages at the moment it is run. It tends to be run every 3-4 days currently, and will likely be run either later today or tomorrow. If you like working woth shortpages, you might also want to check out User:Zorglbot/Shortpages. This is a bot generated parsing of the special::shortpages data, and nicely categorizes the contents of the shortpages data. The Zorglbot report is also run daily, so while it cannot pick up newly shorted pages until the master cache is updated, it at least nicely shows the current status of all those pages that were on the previous master cache.

As for the invisible comment, that reflects back to the 1,000 article limit for the cache data. I tend to drop that comment on a variety of pages that show up on the shortpages list, but really are not needing attention from regular short pages patrollers. Salting templates, Wiktionary soft redirect, copyvio notices, and the blanked Lava Lamp page. All these are pages that show up on the list, but really do not need attention from the short pages patrollers. And every one of these that I can bump down off the list is one more page that can make it into the 1,000 that may actually benefit from the attention of the patrollers. - TexasAndroid 13:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• Another OTRS drive-by... I've restored it to a stub-level article. It would be nice if the OTRS guy came back at some point to fix the article but... don't hold your breath. --W.marsh 02:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This I've gotta see: what possible OTRS issue can there be about Lava lamp? Especially one that requires blanking? --Calton | Talk 02:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

See the article's talk page... some kind of corporate trademark thing. Similar to Frisbee at a glance. --W.marsh 03:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• I recommend you don't actually stub it as the issue (from the edit history) is over whether the term "lava lamp" can constitute a genericized trademark or not. Your edits just now say that yes, it is, and it's obvious that Haggerty Enterprises disagree. Not sure if I want to go there ... - Alison ☺ 03:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• So improve it. But I see nothing in the current version claiming it's a genericized trademark. It just describes what a lava lamp/Lava Lamp looks like. --W.marsh 03:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that we should have notified User_talk:Swatjester#Lava_Lamp before going ahead and adding content to the article. I've never heard of OTRS, so I can't help any here.--Flamgirlant 03:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• (to w.marsh) Yes, but they're likely claiming that Lava Lamp™ is a trademark which is their property, while you're referring to it as a generic term. That's bound to piss them off, esp. given their court proceedings against Mathmos, no? It's not as simple as it looks, hence OTRS - Alison ☺ 04:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't find the OTRS ticket referred to, but I suspect the complaint is either that we are genericizing their trademark, or that we aren't using the approved name: "LAVA(r) brand motion lamp". Based on that, any article at that title will be a problem. --Carnildo 05:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but what the bloody else do we call it (not have a go at wikipedia or wikipedians, just the idiot company). That is most definitely a genericized trademark. Viridae 07:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, they're "motion lamps" or even "Astro Lamps" (the original name). I guess the people who own the name Lava Lamp™®(r)(C) get very het up about these things - Alison ☺ 07:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Never ever heard them called anything but Lava lamps. Viridae 07:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

There seem to be endless companies other than these 2 selling things called lava lamps. But this is an article content issue, not a legal issue. We aren't selling something we claim is a trademarked Lava Lamp, we're just describing what people mean when they say something is a lava lamp. Part of that will include who owns the trademark and so on, it would help if they could provide coherent third party documentation. We need to make the article more accurate, not blank it. --W.marsh 11:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I haven't been able to find the OTRS ticket number either. Maybe it was copy/pasted wrong? In any case there is no trademark issue as far as I can tell from my understanding of trademark issues. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 15:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It's in the legal queue, which is why you can't see it. We've received a legal complaint from an attorney regarding this. The issue goes directly down to the words Lava lamp. Thus, I blanked the article completely: any use of the word lava lamp is disputed in the claim. REGARDLESS OF THE MERITS, please let us proceed through this to resolution before reinserting the information. The world will not end because this article is blanked for a little bit. ⇒ SWATJester 16:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• There has got to be a better way to handle it than this... hatcheting articles on demand and maybe fixing them at some point is an insult to people who work hard on articles. --W.marsh 16:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you have some misconception of what's going on here. It's not hatcheted on demand: it's a preventative response to a potential lawsuit. And we're not "maybe fixing them" at some point: it's under active investigation, and it WILL be fixed as soon as that ends. There's no insult there. Until that point, you need to trust that OTRS is doing their job. ⇒ SWATJester 17:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll get some trust when I actually see OTRS fix an article they've hatcheted. I haven't seen that in a while... at one point they were quite good at fixing actual problems quietly. Now all I see are farces like Lava lamp. --W.marsh 17:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Assume good faith? ⇒ SWATJester 19:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Fix the article? --W.marsh 19:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It will happen, as soon as we finish resolving things with the party. ⇒ SWATJester 01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Er, in order to keep a trademark good, doesn't one have to show a history of enforcing its use? I can recall past examples of various companies (Caterpillar is one that comes to mind) publishing notices in periodicals like Writer's Digest about their trademarks, but I have never seen any notices about "Lava lamp". And I can assure you that I would remember that -- because that would be like attempting to trademark "Acapulco Gold". -- llywrch 23:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Here you go. This should explain to you why the entire article is blanked, as opposed to a 2 sentence stub or so. ⇒ SWATJester 01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I fear that Haggerty are a bit late. The name lava lamp (uncapitalised) has been common currency in the UK for about thirty years... Guy (Help!) 09:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Would using the term "lava lamp" within the context of a scholarly article qualify as fair use? I think it would. Also, my understanding of the law on this is that owning a trademark does not give one carte blanche to force others to use it, as seems to be the case here. Trademark is meant to prevent other commercial entities from creating products that can be mistaken for the trademark holder's products. Since Misplaced Pages is not producing lava lamps motion lamps, calling the article about l**a l**ps "L**a l**p" should not be a problem. Besides, the term entered common currency long ago. At least they're leaving Volcano alone ... for now. --Dynaflow babble 09:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I think they may be overreaching if I'm reading their legal page correctly {I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice but an attempt to comprehend the situation with the sources available; please don't sue me, volcanic light-fixture people; etc.). From their legal terms page: "A 'lava lamp' does not exist." Their trademarks are LAVA®, LAVA LITE®, and LAVA WORLD INTERNATIONAL®; the term "l**a l**p," which the page asserts does not exist, does not appear to be trademarked by them, which would logically leave it free for generic use. Also demanded by Haggerty: "Somewhere on the page containing a LAVA® brand motion product, the following must be written: legalese, blah blah blah blah." There was probably an issue with having a picture of a "motion lamp" on the page without their legal language there, but it is my understanding of fair use that, if one takes a picture of a product, then that image belongs to the person who created it, and that would thus not constitute a trademark infringement. I am wondering why they have not trademarked "l**a l**p" and instead insist upon LAVA LITE®. Methinks someone might want to look into whether or not they applied for that trademark but couldn't get it because it was determined to be a generic term or was trademarked by someone else. --Dynaflow babble 10:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

According to TESS, a trademark for "Lava Lamp" is owned by a fireworks manufacturer in Missouri. In my search, I didn't find any explicit Haggerty trademark of the phrase "lava lamp," though they do seem to own "Lava Brand" in relation to lamps and such. Someone else should double-check that because I might not have looked in all the right places and might not be interpreting their entries correctly. In any case, this is from the Compact OED: lava lamp • noun a transparent electric lamp containing a viscous liquid in which a suspended waxy substance rises and falls in constantly changing shapes. I would love to see what happens if/when they issue a C&D order to the OED people. There will be fireworks, for sure. --Dynaflow babble 11:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I hope our team of attorneys uses all of this excellent evidence to ensure our article can remain accurate and high-quality. --W.marsh 14:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I expect the recent trend of expedient solutions and capitulation in the face of brute force to continue, but hey, the Foundation might just redeem itself this time. LOL at one of the LAVA LITE®'s own vendors' interpretation of Haggerty's trademark practices (at bottom of page): "Lava Lite® lamp and its configuation are both registered trademarks of Haggerty Enterprises, Inc., and they will SQUISH anyone who infringes upon their stuff." --Dynaflow babble 18:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Well done to User:Spikey for pointing out this potential trademark problem nearly 3 1/2 years ago! violet/riga (t) 14:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism/Useless Edits by Anon

Someone from 72.14.252.136 has been vandalizing pages since November of last year. He/she has been blocked three times, yet continues to engage in disruptive behavior.

While it is frustrating, we can't indefblock IPs. And a last warning seems to be already given. —Kurykh 03:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, can you implement a year-long block or something? There's been more vandalism from this IP since I last posted.C1k3 20:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

24 hours, maybe. But not a year. The IP is dynamic. —Kurykh 03:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Collounsbury and personal attacks

Pools and pools of blood User:Collounsbury is generally a fine editor and adds a lot to the community, so I have no interest in him being blocked, banned, or in any way prohibited from his valuable additions to the mainspace, but if an admin could gently remind him of the policy about personal attacks, I would appreciate it. On talk pages, he writes some pretty bilious slurs, and I've asked him politely to 1.) not curse at and slander me, and 2.) to reserve talk pages to content related to the articles at hand and post on my talk if he has some dispute with me personally. He has refused to do either, and this is not the first time. Examples:

• ...Good ord, what the bloody hell is your bloody problem...
• ...Now I hope you will bloody well stop your personal djihad to insert Western Sahara on every damn page possibly tangentially touching on the issue, or deface it due to your ill-informed, obsessive, narrow-minded partisan editing...
• ... Stop your bloody whinging on mate. You bloody well deface article after article - on subjects you bloody well admit you're bloody fucking ignorant about - due to one bloody obsession. For the sake of a bloody fuck, take a breather... your edits show a gullible young fool... It is making a goddamned point and ... you are bloody well vested in defacing every other article with the slightest tangential connexion with your obsession with poorly thought out, poorly informed obsessive edits - as in here, repeatedly, against better advice, in ignorance. I don't go to your bloody talk page because I don't give a flying fuck about you...

As you can see, his rhetoric is escalating. Again, let me emphasize that, by and large, I think he is a useful contributor and I have no personal ax to grind with him outside of his constant slander and rudeness on talk. For that matter, I don't even think he has a personal vendetta against me per se but gets a little worked-up on talk. I simply don't want to be treated with such a disrespectful and pedantic attitude, especially when I don't give it in return. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 03:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You felt it necessary to mock him in response to the first diff you posted? Try to take the higher road and meet incivility with civility. If you're upset by the way he speaks to you, politely relay your feelings on his user talk page. I can't seem to find any discussion about this on his talk page at all, actually. Were the discussions removed? –Gunslinger47 04:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes and no He and I have had this discussion several times before, including more heated exchanges. I've been gone for several months and we only started interacting again; I'd simply prefer this to not escalate and not continue. No doubt, I have made serious errors in judgement and probably will in the future; I want to cut this off at the pass. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 05:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is how Koavf was responding:

Bloody Well, you bloody well bring up a bloody point about the bloody dropdown menu and how the bloody World Bank apparently (bloody) contradicts itself. You could consider it MENA, I suppose, because it is Semitic. That seems bloody reasonable to me. I'm personally not invested in including Malta; I only did so because I saw a source that included it. Since said source contradicts itself, feel free to remove it for all I care, but not all of the other reasonable additions (e.g. Western Sahara, greater Middle East, reference to Chinese culture instead of PRC, etc.) Bloody. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 20:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I think again Koavf is being cut in public lying about being polite. That is the reason he wants this to be cut off at this pass.--A Jalil 11:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Justin, when you accuse someone of attacking you in person, you must at least avoid to do just the same. Now, this is i think the third time you post a thread here. Isn't that too much? The situation had been pretty calm when you were blocked indef and now it is becoming to be heated again. Do you think it has something to do w/ your coming back? -- FayssalF - 14:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Lies, etc. The first post is now in mediation, as well it should be. The second post has yet to get anyone's attention, other than Francis, with whom I originally spoke. It should be investigated. The third post has essentially resolved itself, as Collounsbury and I have since posted with one another (relatively) cordially. The articles were quiet to the extent that Wikima and Jalil got their way while no one else was looking; I don't exactly think that's ideal. As for Jalil's behavior, he basically watches my contributions and posts almost everywhere I do to slander me; including Misplaced Pages namespace and other users' talk. Now, he's making accusations about lying when I never did lie. I've never been as disrespectful or pedantic to Collounsbury as he has to me. That's a fact. In point of fact, I was acknowledging in that post that he was correct and I agreed that he brought up a good point. All this is immaterial, of course, as Jalil is taking yet another opportunity to say something unflattering about me in regards to something that doesn't directly involve him. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 20:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Please provide a diff of where you "asked him politely to 1.) not curse at" you. –Gunslinger47 00:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Republicofwiki

Republicofwiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Seems a bit suspicious for a newbie, and a possible username violation even. Goes around adding {{fact}} to articles, even dating the additions (I don't even remember to do that, and I've been on WP two years!). Then they oppose my RfA. Sounds an awful lot like a sockpuppet of a banned editor, though I don't know exactly who matches Republic's MO. Can an experienced admin check up on the situation? —Crazytales  13:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey, they are even dating the fact tag! That is obviously a WP:SPA, but I don't think they are disruptive by themselves (yet?). I'd suggest keeping an eye on him to see if an agenda appears. -- lucasbfr 13:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Gotta be someone who's been here before, and obviously hitting "Random article" and added the fact tags. The only sock I can recall with a similar M.O. was User:MsHyde (a sock of the banned User:Cindery), who added unreferenced tags to a few hundred random articles to build up her first 300 edits or so. But I think we'll have to wait and see. MastCell 15:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocked by Ryúlông per WP:HARASS. —Crazytales  01:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I declined the unblock due to the suspicious behaviour, but I may have been wrong. The user showed me where they first found the obscure tag I mention in my unblock decline that so raised my warning bells. The tag was added a long while ago by another user. A couple of users have expressed concern about the block. I myself am a bit suspicious and wary of the user. However, in the absence of solid evidence that this user is the sockpuppet of another specific user, or that the user's intention is to disrupt Misplaced Pages or harass its users, our principles encourage us to assume good faith. An indefinite block seems a bit out of place without a demonstrated need for it. Indef blocks are generally meant for users who have repeatedly demonstrated an inability to work productively in this environment, not first warnings. Just some thoughts. Vassyana 12:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I made the following comment to the user on IRC - "Well, I don't know if you're telling the truth or trolling. But Misplaced Pages policies as well as common sense would seem to indicate that in the absence of clear evidence for the latter, the former should be assumed". I think this sums up my views, it's possible that the user is trolling, however I think he should be unblocked in the interests of Assuming Good Faith. It's trivial to block the user again if he is a troll, yet we could lose a potentially valuable contributer to wikipedia if he remains blocked. --Darksun 13:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

This is obviously a sockpuppet. Ask them to get over it and get another account; if they feel like editing constructively. — Nearly Headless Nick 13:57, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That's a fair bit of nonsense. Being a sockpuppet is not a reason in and of itself for a block, especially an indefinite one. Also, it's more than a bit ridiculous to say we should tell them "to get over it and get another account" when their indef block includes (account creation blocked). Vassyana 16:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

While I agree he's a sockpuppet/new account of an other user (he know the procedures much more than most users), I don't really see the harassment. In my views his behavior is not really against WP:SOCK, since he did not disrupt a process or seem to have /voted somewhere. Personally I'd assume good faith, unblock and keep an eye on him; but for now blocking him is more a preemptive strike than anything else. As a principle I never revert an admin decision without consensus to do so, so it's your call. -- lucasbfr 16:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the user made a single !vote, which was the basis for the block. Vassyana 17:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that there was nothing wrong with voting as long as the user votes once; i.e. not with both accounts. hbdragon88 18:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The block was made, I believe, because Ryulong viewed the !vote as harassment, as noted above. Vassyana 18:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I blocked because I saw the !vote. There should very likely be a checkuser in this situation to see if the individual was vote stacking.—Řÿūłóñģ (竜龍) 20:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The above is a good example of poisoning the well. If you want to request the checkuser, go ahead, but would you agree to unblock if nothing turns up? Given what the user appears to have learned, I'm not sure what this block is preventing. Gracenotes § 02:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The Mission (band)

I'm seriously getting annoyed with the fact that I am being repeatedly treated like a common troll and vandal because I remove violations of Fair Use on this article. Please, an admin, review the Fair Use policy and tell me if the discography section of this article is violating Fair Use or not. If it does, then remove them and re-tag Image:MissionAura.jpg, Image:MissionAura.jpg, Image:MissionNeverland.jpg, Image:MissionBlue.jpg and Image:MissionNoSnowNoShow.jpg for being orphaned. — Moe ε 14:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Obvious giant violation of WP:NONFREE. The images have been removed again. The page will be protected if this nonsense is kept up. Riana (talk) 14:19, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

And the page has been protected... Riana (talk) 14:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

And the attacks continue — Moe ε 14:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

And I've warned him. Shadow1 (talk) 15:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the "new message prank" from the warned user's talk page. --After Midnight 15:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Wait, is that policy now? Because I friggin' hate those prank bars so very hard. -- Merope 15:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It's policy if you want it to be :) Riana (talk) 15:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You don't get to "invent your own policy" Riana. That is not how Misplaced Pages works, abusing administrative powers however is a violation; Misplaced Pages is not an experiment in fascism. I like the bar, if a certain person doesn't have a sense of humour, then he doesn't have to go on my talk; its not violating any policies, so I'll keep it thanks. - The Daddy 18:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Daddy Kindsoul, if you are spoofing the interface and making things difficult for other contributors, I will absolutely remove the bar. I'm sure we both want the same thing, which is a navigable, enjoyable experience for our editors. Riana (talk) 18:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

No, the rule of thumb was that it was frowned upon in the userpage guideline, but even that was removed for having "weasel words". I'm sorta kicking myself for starting that whole fake "you have new messages" trend to begin with. Now it's just annoying. — Moe ε 17:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

He doesn't like it being removed, and he doesn't like "spam" (i.e. warnings of copyright policy violations) from bots either. Guy (Help!) 18:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, didn't realize I was a bot :) — Moe ε 18:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't like any spam, it has no place on Misplaced Pages period; hense why I warn against it. Perhaps you should read what the note actually says and take it for what it is, instead of creating your own little "opinions" for me, eh? The Daddy 18:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Note that Daddy Kindsoul, formerly known as Deathrocker (block log), is on ArbCom revert parole and has been blocked for personal attacks and fair use violations in the past. Prolog 16:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to regret this, but I'm feeling rather rougey today. -- Merope 19:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Wait a second..

Besides the fact that Deathrocker (Daddy Kindsoul) he committed 3RR by rvt warring with me and Riana today He is under ArbCom restriction. He isn't allowed to revert more than 3 times in a 30-day period under any account name according to this. The Enforcement is to block, and after 5 times, it becomes year-long. He's already been blocked six times since then, with the last being a one-week block. I'm not trying to inflame anything, but shouldn't he technically be blocked for a year because of this? — Moe ε 19:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of the fact that I was removing simple vandalism (blanking) and stated that I was removing vandalism clearly in the edit summary (removing clear defacement does not count as a "revert" as per WP:3RR)... I haven't been on parole since May, as it was for a year. - The Daddy 19:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but that is not simple vandalism, no matter how many times you state it is in the edit summary. — Moe ε 19:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You blanked images which have correct licencing and complete fair use rationale's from an article in which they were giving information that could not otherwise be given. That is vandalism of work, hense why I removed it. - The Daddy 19:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It does not matter if you have rationales and correct licensing, the Images were not being used correctly per WP:NONFREE, specifically #3a and #8. That is not vandalism, it's enforcement of policy, as many have explained to you today. Indeed you are not under ArbCom sanction anymore, but you're reverting still violated 3RR, I believe. — Moe ε 19:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Revert parole is sometimes limited to one year but I do not see that in this case. It appears the revert parole is still in effect, unless you can show me the specific limitation that I have missed. Thatcher131 19:39, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I went ahead and blocked him for a month for violating that -- it doesn't say that he's on parole for any length of time. Of course, I might be (and often am) wrong. -- Merope 19:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, even if it's for a year, doesn't he still have, um, five days left since the ruling? -- Merope 19:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, a lengthy block was perfectly justifiable in any case. If the fair use fanboys are being evil, major thwacks need to be handed out. This is not a matter for compromise. Moreschi 19:45, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It appears that I was just played for a fool for assuming good faith and assuming he was telling the truth about his ArbCom ruling ending. That's what you get for thinking positive :( — Moe ε 19:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm marking this as resolved. The editor in question has been blocked for a month for violating the terms of his revert parole. Another administrator has confirmed this was the correct action. He can tilt at windmills all he likes in the interim; I'm not going to bother protecting the page. I hope to see everyone in a month, when he seeks to have me desysopped! -- Merope 20:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Never fear, I'll be here in a month's time, there will be no desysopping :) — Moe ε 20:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone decline the unblock request, this is a perfectly good block. Moreschi 20:33, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've reviewed the unblock request, re-read the arbcom finding, and examined the edits in question. I declined request and determined that the block was proper. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 21:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Edtropolis and AfDs

Edtropolis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a new user editing since 11 June 2007. Since then, he has made 380 edits, none of which are in the mainspace (except to post {{afd}} templates). Nearly all the rest have been to create or participate in AfD discussions. Many of his !votes have nonsensical or inappropriate rationales; in some cases it appears he doesn't know or understand Misplaced Pages policy, and in other cases it seems he didn't bother to read (or even skim) the article nominated for deletion. Examples:

• "Delete. Non-notable drug." for a travelogue
• "Weak delete. He seems to be Mexican." for a Hungarian scholar
• "Delete. Most likely a hate group." for a Belgian music scene
• "Redirect to Graves Disease ." for an unrelated neurological disease
• "Redirect to Flashdance." for an unrelated stage musical
• "Delete… possibly a hoax." for a well-sourced Britney Spears album
• "Weak Keep. Appears to be a conspiracy theory web site." for a Trotskyist journal

At this point I'm still assuming good faith and have contacted him a few times to politely point out that !votes should be supported by Misplaced Pages policies, and should be relevant to the article, but this behaviour has continued. I think it would be helpful if some other editors were to help keep an eye on him. —Psychonaut 16:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Left a note on his/her talk page. I don't want to be cynical, so I'll assume they're just new and have chosen to spend all their time at AfD but don't understand its workings yet. Bears further close observation. MastCell 17:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Alkivar just blocked Edtropolis, who has already posted an unblock request. I'm beginning to think Edtropolis isn't really a new user. —Psychonaut 18:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I had one encounter with Edtropolis on an AfD, where I questioned his meaningless reasoning on an AfD, and he went back and changed it to something meaningful. I don't know what that means, but I just thought I'd throw that out. Corvus cornix 20:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've just noticed that his talk page is full of editors questioning his AfD reasoning. FTR, since being blocked he's made personal attacks on his talk page. —Psychonaut 21:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

News flash - I just noticed this. Which had escaped my notice earlier. Explanation? PeaceNT? Please? MastCell 21:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

That is very worrisome, and needs an immediate explanation. Corvus cornix 21:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This is even more worrisome. Corvus cornix 21:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Note that her RfA concluded successfully a few days before the account creation spree. MastCell 21:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

That said, there are some potential explanations here, and I don't want to be too hasty. I'll wait to hear from User:PeaceNT. MastCell 21:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've asked her to comment here. Corvus cornix 21:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with PeaceNT. They were merely fulfilling an account request now archived at Misplaced Pages:Request an account/June 2007. And that's why all the other accounts have been created too. --Steve _(Stephen) 01:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yeah, thanks Steve. I created the account in question (and the other accounts for that matter) per the requests posted at WP:ACC. Peacent 02:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow. I don't know what to say. I feel really bad about jumping to wrong conclusion here. I wasn't aware of Misplaced Pages:Request an account - the thought occurred to me that User:PeaceNT had created them on behalf of IP-blocked users, but I didn't see anything in WP:REGISTER to that effect and wasn't aware of the request-an-account page. I guess with recent events (established users and admins sockpuppeteering, etc) and the fact that Edtropolis didn't seem new, I was paranoid and jumped to the totally wrong conclusion out of my own ignorance. A big, king-size apology to User:PeaceNT, thanks to User:Stephen for educating me here, and I'll get to working on getting my foot out of my mouth. Damn, that's embarassing. I'm really sorry about that, PeaceNT. MastCell 02:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I need to apologize, too, I never heard of that account request page before, either. Corvus cornix 02:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Right on top of the user creation log: In the instance of someone creating several new accounts, bear in mind they may be acting in good faith on behalf of Misplaced Pages:Request an account. :p Also people who help out with the unblock mailing list create accounts all the time (I help occasionally). Riana (talk) 04:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Speedy request

It's too much effort to put speedy tags on 20 articles so i would like to nominate on the year in Ireland articles in Category:All articles lacking sources for speedy deletion under A3. Of the ones I've checked (and have speedied) they consist on markup and perhaps the odd date and that's it. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, while we're at it, I'd like to nominate every year on this list up to 1737. Dunno who's creating them, but they really aren't readable. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

These aren't A3 deletions... the ones I looked at all contained at least one entry. --W.marsh 17:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Huh, maybe the ones I saw were flukes. Ah well, a-prodding I will go... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well they have content... I'd object to a PROD too (on ones with entries) as there's apparently useful content spread out across these pages. Merge it somewhere, or let it sit around and see if people expand it. --W.marsh 17:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

looking at 1789 in Ireland, picked at random, there are two entries, and the information about the people is obviously going to be on the linked page. I am not think sure is a valid interpretation of "not sourced;" And, w.marsh, how can you merge the content on a Year in Someplace page? DGG 17:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well maybe to a timeline article of some sort. I think I've seen ones like that at some point, that cover multiple years. --W.marsh 17:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

My apologies; you are clever than I--such does seem a reasonable way to go. Now that I've started thinking again I have seen them too at various places, especially for the earlier years of something. DGG 00:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I have asked on the WP:COUNCIL page, because there are obscene numbers of these blah in year/year in blah articles, but one doesn;t seem to exist and they keep proliferating. Where would it be possible to start a discussion on what to do with these? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Major fault in fair use rationales

I dont know whether anyone has noticed or not but look at Category:Screenshots of television for example, many of the images there are missing fair use rationales but are not tagged, this is one out hundreds of categories, these should really be tagged but is it worth it as it'll probably get you a bad name? The Sunshine Man 17:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• I figure Betacommandbot will eventually get them all. -N 20:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I've written Betacommand telling him that he may want to read this thread. Will 20:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I Know there are still images that BCbot needs to tag, But per the FURG discussion and the suspension of I6, I am give users until july 1st to fix what they can before I restart BCbot. per a prelim check Ive identified 169,000 images that have problems with their rationale. check the recent archives of AN for my plan of action and time line of advancement. Betacommand 01:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Earlier this year I began combing through fair-use album covers one at a time. I looked at each image in depth. That is, I looked to see if the image was actually being used per WP:FUC. Out of the first few thousand images I reviewed, I found a few hundred that were not being used properly (maybe 10-20%). My review took me alphabetically up through files beginning with "4".... To me, this indicates a very significant problem that will take a lot of manual hours to sort out. Common problems included using album covers as navigational aids and as portraits for the artist's biography page. Rklawton 01:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

can this admin be thoroughly reviewed to see if he's out of control?

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive85#strange behavior from an admin?

• <quotation removed; the link above is stufficientChick Bowen 01:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)>

I have had my own unpleasant experience with kukini and I think he is power hungry and out of control. I looked back at his archives and I have seen repeated complaints about him. His usual defense for his own bad behavior is "you're attacking me", which is a very aggressive thing to accuse someone of; it's actually an attack of it's own. 71.155.212.206 18:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

No general complaints please. If you have a diff you want us to look at, fine. If not, go to dispute resolution or let it go. Chick Bowen 01:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attacks & Incivility

User:ThuranX started making personal attacks on me the other day, and has not relented, despite my efforts to resolve the issue politely and, in the end, somewhat ineffectively. I have had very little in the way of interaction with him, and am very surprised by the rage and vitriol I am seeing in his recent edits to and about me.
The conversation began over some placement of citation tags in the Catwoman, wherein ThuranX and another user, Duhman were edit-warring and generally being uncivil to each other. I suggested that they might want to take a step back for a bit, and they both went nuts. I replied to each of them on their talk pages. Duhman proved pretty much a lost cause, but I had enough respect for Thuran to try and help square things away, as evidenced here and here (both of the short sections are full of personal attacks). He took my questioning of his edits as a personal attack, and became a lot more uncivil. I wasn't expecting this and responded a bit hotly, though nowhere near as hotly as what continued. I retracted my statements, hoping this would calm matters down. It didn't, and the personal attacks just kept coming:
In the Catwoman article:

• 1
• 2
• 3

In another editor's talk page:

• 4 (including my response to the initial attack, which I self-reverted, wanting the attacks to simply stop)
• 5

His own talk page had more personal attacks.

The damnable thing is that, while I know he is feeling burnt out and is not at all polite with many, many others (as evidenced by a look at just the edit history of his own Talk page). I actually respected the guy - until he decided to target me. I am not sure how to proceed, as he seems to be continuing the uncivil stuff despite my politely trying to defuse matters, or not responding at all. I mean, I am avoiding the guy, but he just keeps making comments. Can someone lend a hand? - Arcayne () 18:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

He's not assuming good faith on your part, but good faith has its limits and he might have reached his. Here he explains himself:

You're a troll. You're deliberately disrupting pages with citation demands for every line and section to make a point. What that point is, I don't care. but it's tiring, childish, and irritating. If you feel that every single thing needs citation, you go find it. I found more than enough, given that this all started with you being nosey. ThuranX 17:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've not reviewed your dispute in detail, but if ThuranX is seeing this correctly, he might be correct regarding the citations (though presumably has mistaken your intentions). You only need to place <ref/> tags on facts that are likely to be questioned. –Gunslinger47 19:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that wasn't the issue prompting the complaint. I was addressing the personal attacks and incivility that accompanied the edits, which another editor also addressed with him (to no avail). Maybe he was all upset about the User:H issue, and it spilled over, but I am not the only person he has blown up at or made personal attacks at. When a user acts in this way, they usually get blocke for a period of time, not as punishment, necessarily, but instead to both protect the project as well as giving the person being complained about some perspective. I am not sure I understand the delay in acting here. -Arcayne () 18:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Do we fulfill requests for enforced Wikibreak blocks?

Do we block people when they ask nicely to help us enforce a Wikibreak? I seem to remember this being discussed here with arguments on each side, but don't recall what the latest thinking is. Specifically, I have a request for an 11 day ban from User:Freedomlinux - any opinions from other admins? --AnonEMouse 18:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

No, we typically do not due to potential collateral damage.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 18:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This is available: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_User_scripts/Scripts/WikiBreak_EnforcerSancho 19:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

(Non admin comment) Arnon Chaffin was blocked once for a Wikibreak on his request but unblocked afer when he couldn't resist editing, technically it does go against the blocking policy though. The Sunshine Man 19:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Due to the advances in software isn't collateral damage a thing of the past? --W.marsh 19:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Provided you enable account creation and disable the autoblock, why not block on request? Moreschi 19:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Because if someone is so addicted that they need a block to force a break will edit anonimously or with a new account. Really we are not nannies, if they need forcing they should get a family member to take away thier computer. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 21:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, it sounds like they've admitted they have a problem, and that they need the help of a power greater than themselves to handle it... that's two steps in the right direction... MastCell 23:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Now, now, we are not higher powers. We just have some buttons that aren't handed out to everyone for security and technical reasons. (And no, we should not start blocking on request--the blocking policy is the one least subject to IAR.) Chick Bowen 01:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

69.201.146.55 deleting material (redux).

• 69.201.146.55 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) - on Amanda Hearst (). User deleted material after receiving a final warning about deleting material. I am involved in a dispute of sorts with this user (but not concerning this particular article) and had been advised to report here rather than deal with it myself. I suspect that this person is an IP sock of User:Johnyajohn, FWIW. (I listed this here earlier, then remembered that someone had advised me to use WP:AIV instead, but AIV said it isn't simple vandalism and sent me back here.) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

No edits since last final warning. This is a dynamic ip, so action will only be taken if account is active/vandalising. LessHeard vanU 22:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, although I've seen the same pattern of edits from this IP, so I think a block would only affect that one Wikipedian. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Boris 1991

Check out some of his userboxen. Is slyly calling for the death of a head of state appropriate for Misplaced Pages?

• *Giggles* (I just said slyly)--Flamgirlant 20:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This page was actually just on Misc for deletion and (apparently) was kept, so I don't think there's a problem here. He's also not calling for the death of a head of state; he's saying that if he had to choose between Israel and the Iranian President being wiped off the map, he'd choose the Iranian President. --Haemo 21:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well I'm saying this because was recently deleted and it had very similar content.--Flamgirlant 21:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

True, and it looks like the MfD never resolved that issue. --Haemo 21:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Found the mfd: Misplaced Pages:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Boris_1991.--Flamgirlant 21:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well then, I guess he can get back to constructive edits like this one. I'm hoping there will be more to his participation in Misplaced Pages than nostalgia for British colonialism and the occasional jingoistic outburst. MastCell 21:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Greenharpoon

Please check out User:Greenharpoon whose first activity after creating an account was to submit an RFA that was clearly a joke. If this was truly a new user, how in the world did they know how to find WP:RFA immediately? If not really a new user, then WTF? Looks to me like this account should just get blocked indefinitely. If you disagree, perhaps you could leave him/her a warning.

--Richard 21:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've deleted the RFA and am watching to see what he does. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 21:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

toupee

I am reporting User:Mattewdkaufman and IP user 199.68.81.105 for multiple reversions to a "list of known toupee wearers" that clearly violated WP:BLP as well as removing legitimate trivia warning tags and a general edit warring. I also reverted many times, but the more than 3 reverts were only to remove potentially libelous material that clearly violated BLP's "do no harm" admonishment. The list is now not in violation of BLP as they removed all the living people. Now it's just WP:TRIVIA. VanTucky 22:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Matters regarding BLP should be filed at Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard, which indeed you have done. Matters not regarding BLP are a content dispute, and you should pursue the matter using the WP:DR procedure. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

and three-revert rule violations at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Iwazaki

• Iwazaki (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks)

After an editor exposed my real identity in an ANI through an error I made in a sandbox, I have been harassed number of times with that information ever since. I have not dealt with incident of exposure of my real identity when I had made all efforts to conceal it including blanking the Sanbox number of times yet. That decision I am still grapling with but the harrasement is interfering in my ability to contribute to wikipedia.

• Incident 1,
• Incident 2,
• Incident 3
• incident 4 Thanks Taprobanus 23:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Question on NOR, Shaheenjim

WP:NOR prevents original research. This seems to be what Shaheenjim (talk · contribs) is doing in edits like this one. Certainly, the only person pushing for this information to be added is this user, everyone else is against including this, most pointing out that it is a violation of WP:NOR. Clearly edits made against consensus are inappropriate but could I get some other eyes on this edit specifically to see if it violates WP:NOR? --Yamla 23:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like he's trying to draw a conclusion that favours his viewpoint, so yes looks like OR to me.--Crossmr 23:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

User:TTN marking every single television episode for notability concerns

TTN (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is using some kind of automated tool to mark every single TV episode ever for notability concerns. For 00:22 I counted 13 edits in a single minute. I looked at his talk page and he has complaints for this and for unilaterally merging masses of episodes to their parents. He appears to be indirectly canvassing for his Wikiproject . I see this as an incredible violation of WP:CANVAS and WP:POINT. Can anybody else weigh in on this? I'm tempted to start an RfC on this. I was going to, but There's already an incomplete RfC page for him complaining about him unilaterally merging scores of articles. -N 00:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Sigh, I'm just using tabs to mark episodes for "review." I was doing it without discussion, but people didn't like that, so now I'm using tags and opening discussions that last a few weeks. People have time to get on it, so there should be no complaints. This is also in accordance with the updated WP:EPISODE and related projects/task forces. TTN 00:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Editing War of the Year: Last year state highways, this year television episodes, what's next? —Kurykh 01:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Does TV episodes trump images with claimed fair use? Corvus cornix 01:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how that's related to this discussion, but I believe fair use images must universally follow the rules. -N 01:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

TTN's talk page is riddled with complaints about his actions before a group of editors sat down to discuss the TV:EPISODE guideline, and before the template tag was created for the pages. That tag is used is an alert of the editors of that page, and a tool for other editors to find all the problem articles quickly. It isn't going to delete the article anymore than a {{plot}} tag will delete a plot section. It's just a more efficient tag for the articles, which helps direct people to the guidelines of what should be on that page, and comprise a list that can be easily accessed by others (as opposed to thumbing through thousands of articles from every single television show on Misplaced Pages...yes, thousands. When you count how many shows there are, and the average number of eps per series, it isn't that hard to imagine).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

And what does this have to do with the current situation? —Kurykh 03:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, people believe that TTN is violating CANVASS and POINT, which he isn't. First, CANVASS is about contacting lots of editors for their opinions. He hasn't done that. He's alerting the editors of pages of the clean-up duty that is necessary for the article. He hasn't requested anyone's opinion on anything. Every form of mass posting isn't CANVASS; if you are applying clean-up tags to articles that is completely different then going to people's talk page and requesting the come join some petition. As for POINT, I think everyone knows the majority of episode articles are in poor shape. The tag provides links to helpful guidelines that allow editors to learn how to improve their articles, and also provides a link in a category for others to review the progress of all the problem articles, without having to search through list after list of article for every episode name. So, POINT is subjective and I think TTN has had plenty of people actually praise his efforts as well as dismiss them as disruptive. I was simply explaining what the tag he was placing on pages was. It's equivalent to a clean-up tag, except that it has a date stamp that puts link to every article in a category so that they can be reviewed later. There is a severe problem with television episode articles, just like there was a severe problem with non-free image usage on Misplaced Pages. The tag is a more fair way of saying "please clean this up, it will be reviewed after so many days by a community of editors, who may decide on the best course of action for this page". His actions are based on the consensus reached by others.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 04:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. —Kurykh 04:33, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Corvus cornix, I was being sarcastic. —Kurykh 03:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC

I know, so was I.  :) Corvus cornix 05:26, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know that going off in tangents was a form of sarcasm. :) —Kurykh 06:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see what the problem is. I didn't make it clear that I was saying that the "fair use" war was the war of the year, trumping your television episodes war.  :) Corvus cornix 18:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Ok let me make my objection known more plainly since people seem to be missing it. We do not mindlessly add cleanup tags to articles without reviewing them. And we do not add cleanup tags for wikiprojects to the article itself. Those go on article talk pages. If it were anything but tv episodes and I were to mindlessly add cleanup tags to hundreds of articles in a short span of time I'd be blocked. -N 06:57, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Who says you'd be blocked? If an article needs clean up, it needs clean up. I highly doubt you would be blocked if you put "plot" tags on every film that had horribly long plots. You are looking at it from the "13 pages in a minute" perspective. You have to judge how many articles for televisions episodes there are (I'd be willing to bet they outnumber film articles). If 90% of the articles need tags, then they do. I can take a sample from one show and detemine what most of the articles are like, just be shear statistics. 97% of the Smallville episode articles are the definition of problem articles. It's actually higher than that, but I rounded the number of articles down to 40, and there is only a single article that actually meet the requirements for existence. There are plenty of good articles, don't get me wrong, hell I believe every episode article in Season 8 of The Simpsons is actually GA, but that's like the black sheep of articles, as it's the only season for the show to have accomplished such a feat.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 07:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

You can acquit TTN of canvassing at the very least. The talk page diffs above are the direct result of using {{TVreview1}}, which I wrote. I added the link to the Wikiproject merely to be helpful...I thought it was a good place for editors to go if they had general questions about TV articles, or needed an experienced editor to help them. If that counts as canvassing, then simply remove the last sentence from the template. No need to beat TTN over the head with it. Gwinva 13:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

OK it's not canvassing. But you would agree it's disruptive to mark articles with cleanup tags en masse without even reading them? -N 13:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I take a quick look at them, and even if I put a tag on a good one, it can just be removed. The large amount of edits in a minute comes from using thirteen tabs, not rapid editing. You should be able to see the gap between each pass. TTN 13:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

N, you are seeing it as disruptive, I see it as a free peer review for thousands of articles. There will be ones that clearly have nothing on them and will be redirect/merged with a parent article, but any that have a lot of good information but just require clean are going to get reviewed. Chances are, the review is going to do nothing but help them, as editors will go "yeah, it can stay...but here is how you need to improve this article to be better".  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Fine. I'm willing to see where this goes. I overreact sometimes. It's something I struggle with. -N 14:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • You're not an idiot. Seriously, check out the pages where we had the discussion, we're really only trying to do what's best for these articles.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) :I would hate to think this review process might ever become an automatic tagging/redirect exercise, since it was established in order to prevent such a thing... ie. create due process, offer help, advice etc. That said, having tagged the articles of a few series myself I've realised just how quickly one can scan an article and get an idea of its notability. Remember, the tagging is merely the first step in a process: identifying articles that need further, (more considered) review. I don't know if TTN is tagging too fast/indiscriminately. That is for s/he to answer. As to the notability tag being for a wikiproject or guideline proposal... No. It relates to WP:EPISODE, a fully accepted guideline. It serves a similar purpose to other clean-up tags, but has the advantage of catergorising pages for review. The 'proposal' is at WP:TV-REVIEW, where are number of us are considering the best way to review articles thrown in the notability category. If you have constructive advice to offer about that process, then drop in there. We are trying to create a review and assessment process which is fair to everyone. The alternative to such a process is the standard 'be bold' approach, where any editor can merge/redirect/AfD at will. As Bignole says, this process offers peer review and support along with the opportunity to weed out the articles which Misplaced Pages doesn't want (under its own notability guidelines). As an aside, this is not the work of one wikiproject... notices here, at the village pump, other TV wikiprojects etc have drummed up support, advice and contributors. That includes me: I would never have affiliated myself with WikiProject TV until I was drawn into this by a debate on this page. Gwinva 14:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, it seems I've come after the party..sorry should have read the above before posting. Still, the comments about coming and contributing still apply... we could use some critical assessment of where we've got so far. Gwinva 14:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't this discussed earlier at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive255#Mass_deletion_of_television_articles_by_TTN --24.154.173.243 14:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Impersonating another user

Fyslee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has taken text I wrote on one talk page and posted it on another talk page(midway down the mixed edit), effectively amplifying an already heated discussion. He then proceeded to have a heated conversation against this post I never made. He has included my signature and the date. It appears to other users as if I posted the information myself. His behaviour in the last 24 hours on the talk page appears to be purely in the name of escalating an already volitile situation. ॐ Metta Bubble 01:34, 23 June 2007 (UTC) Is there anything that can be done about this? I really feel he's trying to escalate a bad situation beyond a tenable discussion. ॐ Metta Bubble 07:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

My response to this totally false and misleading charge is coming... We're dealing with blockable and bannable offenses here by a user who refuses to accomodate BLP and NPR concerns from several users (including myself) regarding Metta Bubble's behavior. If necessary I will take this to the BLP Noticeboard and try to get Metta Bubble sitebanned for gross impropriety. No need to waste time on a ArbCom RfArb, when any admin can simply make a block or ban. There are other users who will back up this effort. -- Fyslee/talk 07:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"My response to this totally false and misleading charge is coming..." The diffs I posted above speak for themselves. What possible legitimate reason could you have for posting my comments and signature to another page? How would you like it if I went around posting your signature to things?

Your content issues do not warrant admin intervention. ॐ Metta Bubble 08:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand. It is your behavioral issues that may require blocking or banning. I never attached your signature to anything. I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all) and my replies (thus preserving the context). You start out here by making it sound like I forged something and then added your signature to make it look like something you had written:

• "... this post I never made. He has included my signature and the date. It appears to other users as if I posted the information myself."

You did post that information yourself on my talk page. I only moved it in context. They are your words and signature and time. Don't try to make it sound otherwise. I would never "post(ing) your signature to things" you had not written, and I would not take them out of context and add them to another discussion of another subject. I was only keeping the discussion on the same page, especially since the context also involved other users and your accusations against them. As my response below explains, I am prepared to drop this matter if you don't restore you personal attacks and BLP violation. Otherwise I will go higher up and have a very strong case, since a previous editor who made the same false charges got banned, partially for showing intention (without even doing it) to out another user. That was the last straw after they had already repeatedly publicized private information about myself and made false and unproven COI allegations. You have already outed AvB, but since you may not have understood the seriousness of what you were doing, AvB is being very generous. If you heed his request and don't go there again you may be spared this time. -- Fyslee/talk 09:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't believe you openly admit it and still don't see how it's wrong. Can someone please explain how Fyslees actions (in his own words "I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all) ") are inappropriate. I'd truly appreciate this. I'm really sick of this user harassing me and I thinks it's gonna get ugly if someone doesn't set him straight on the appropriateness of copy-and-pasting other users signatures. ॐ Metta Bubble 23:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Response to false charges and misuse of this board

I see that Metta Bubble has continued her disruptions, personal attacks, and BLP violations against myself and User:AvB at the Talk:Stephen_Barrett page, and has now escalated the matter by making false charges here. This false charge concerns ONE word which Metta Bubble wrote about me, and which I refactored to a more accurate word (which makes Metta Bubble look more charitable!), and then noted why I did it. The word was a repetition of a false charge from a RfArb. (That RfArb resulted in a banning of my accuser.) That charge was never proven and a repetition is simply a gross BLP violation and personal attack against myself. Making COI charges is a serious matter. Rather than take the matter to the BLP Noticeboard, I simply changed it and explained why, since I saw "no need to make waves." Metta Bubble decided to escalate the matter and reverted it (restoring BLP violations is a blockable offense, IIRC, while deleting such isn't even covered by 3rr) and deleted my explanation. Metta Bubble then took the discussion to my talk page, which I felt was problematic as it split the discussion, removing it from the relevant spot, which also involved other editors. I therefore copied very precisely and carefully (no "impersonation" at all, so she is deceiving this board) Metta Bubble's ensuing comments (they were indeed her comments!) and my own replies and placed them in the existing thread where they belonged, so others would know what was going on. Otherwise it would not be understandable. I also wished other editors to help me keep the BLP violation out of Misplaced Pages, and I made such a request.

She has also vandalized MY heading and is making a big issue out of it with another user (even claiming it was her heading).

Now she is calling me a vandal here (by wikilinking my name to "vandal"). She is getting more and more agitated and is attacking other users as well. Please get her to calm down and just leave the more accurate "POV" instead of the false "conflict" (COI) word in place. That will settle the matter for me.

In the meantime I will continue to remove the BLP violation against me in accordance with the requirement ("must") for any Misplaced Pages editor to do so if it pops up again. As of the time of this diff, the state of this word matter is acceptable to me.

These edit histories tell part of the story:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Stephen_Barrett&limit=500&action=history
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Metta_Bubble
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Fyslee
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Avb

-- Fyslee/talk 09:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Fyslee considers it a BLP violation that it's my opinion his edits reveal a conflict of interest on the article. ॐ Metta Bubble 23:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Bogus image upload rationale

Hi - User:Jeandre noticed on IRC that User:TopGUN71691 has been uploading images, claiming to be the author. We're both convinced that this is totally bogus - you can see his logs here Special:Contributions/TopGUN71691. For example:

• this image was uploaded despite the fact a copyright is clearly visible.

Many other images are highly suspect, like:

• this
• and this

Both appear to be observatory photos, and are unlikely to be his work. Also, these historical images, which he claims to be the author of:

• this one
• and this
• and this
• and this

Are all clearly found from other, copyrighted, sources via a Google Image search for the subjects name. There are more, but I just thought this should be brought to someone's attention. --Haemo 02:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

These are blatant copyright violations, thanks for catching it. All of this user's uploads are suspect based on these dishonestly-tagged images, so I'll be deleting them all to be on the safe side. Picaroon (Talk) 02:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

See also Image:Crossfield scott 3.jpg. TopGUN71691 initially uploaded it to en.wikipedia with no copyright info, and then it was moved to Commons by another User. The image is probably public domain, but it needs to be proven. And note that the Commons page claims that the en page gives copyright info, but there is no copyright info on the en page. Corvus cornix 03:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Hate speech

Please take a look at this comment, titled "Editors a Cock-Swallowing Sinners". 03:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Just normal vandalism. WP:RBI. —Kurykh 04:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Yep. Nonsense trolling—not worthy of notice. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 04:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, that's why I didn't say anything to them. Thank you for your input. Joie de Vivre 04:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Disputes with User:TREYWiki

I am having a dispute with User:TREYWiki. This user has made personal attacks against me here, here, and this. I am really getting tired of this. Miranda 04:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Please also see this and

this. Miranda 04:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Dispute resolution is down the hall, second door on the left. —Kurykh 04:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't agree with Miranda's actions on that RfA, but Trey is taking his disapproval too far, methinks. How about you both go to your respective favourite articles and do some work on them, just try and keep out of each other's hair? And agreed with Kurykh... administrators aren't magical problem solvers... try dispute resolution, although I think if you guys just avoid each other for a little while, you should be right... Riana (talk) 04:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Miranda is calling everyone she sees a troll. I tried to mediate on IRC with User:Sean_William, Miranda, refused. And Riana, I am working very hard on Erie, PA my favorite article, but I am being constantly distracted by Miranda. She seems to be taking this too far after. IRC has nothing to do with wikipedia, where this started.--trey 05:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, see the refactoring of RfA comments, wikipedia is not censored last time I checked. Calling gracenotes a troll is worse than what I "did" saying I feel sorry for a user to have to endure Miranda's attacks on his RfA.--trey 05:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Again, one of the "personal attacks" was actually apologetic, nothing to do with a personal attack. Someone likes to hold grudges...--trey 05:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Other user in question seems to have "Retired"--trey 05:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

First, I have not retired. Second, I would appreciate you not making personal attacks on my userpage, as well as on the RFA. Third, what happens on IRC does not effect the encyclopedia. What you are currently doing is disrupting the encyclopedia. I would appreciate you not saying my name in any bad context, because that is called libel. I would also appreciate if you not leave blatant and uncalled for warnings on my page. I would also appreciate if you would kindly leave me alone, as well as cease doing this to me. End of conversation. Miranda 05:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That's a pretty broad interpretation of libel, Miranda! I think everyone just needs to switch off their computers for a while... Riana (talk) 06:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

While I am glad to see that Miranda has changed her mind on retiring, I fail to see how this qualifies as a personal attack via the current WP:NPA criteria. Trey's comment may be questionable civility, but does not appear to meet the ArbCom "interpreted strictly" citation at WP:NPA#Removal of text. Much like Riana above, I feel both parties would benefit from just letting the issue drop and stop harassing each other. --Kralizec! (talk) 13:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to weigh in on this (gotta recuse myself), but I will say that I've gotten slapped with a troll comment over this as well (and one of the diffs provided as evidence of that was my apology). That said, Riana's comment about staying away from each other is literally overflowing with wisdom. EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User OttomanReference

User OttomanReference adds made up and misinterpreted quotes, and adds original research on articles.. He has also engaged in edit warring and continues to remove tags without reaching consensus. . Please block user or protect page, as he does not seem to understand English very well and continues to vandalize pages.

Seems he is intent on only referting me. Just look at grammar of this article and he still removes copyedit and all other tags. Hetoum I 04:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocked for continued edit warring. You might want to look in to dispute resolution. Shell 05:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

He is blocked?Hetoum I 05:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppet block for review

I've blocked Illegal editor (talk · contribs) as a suspected sockpuppet of the ArbCom-banned sockpuppeteer Billy Ego (talk · contribs) (see list of other confirmed and suspected socks). This editor initially raised my suspicion by immediately jumping into a discussion at Talk:Benjamin Tucker, which Billy's prior sock had been involved in just prior to being nabbed. The target articles and POV are an exact match, as is the tendentious and argumentative editing style.

I filed a checkuser request, which failed to detect an IP relationship. However, it should be noted that Billy uses a dynamic IP and open proxies, which is one reason he's been a persistent problem (see here for his own description of his methods of evading checkuser). I decided to watch this account. Since then, I've noticed several very distinctive habits (which I'd be happy to discuss via email) which, combined with the above evidence, have convinced me that this is a clear-cut Billy Ego sock.

I've therefore blocked the account indefinitely; I'm submitting the block here for review and a sanity check. MastCell 05:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't tell you what it looked like when Jpgordon looked at this earlier, but it is clear from the IP now that it is Billy Ego. I found some other socks: Free gifts (talk · contribs), VersaWorka (talk · contribs), Calvaire (talk · contribs), Bloodmania (talk · contribs), Mais o menos (talk · contribs), Planese (talk · contribs), Abolisher (talk · contribs), Dasadais (talk · contribs), Iceaholic (talk · contribs). Dmcdevit·t 06:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually kind of glad to hear that - I was worried I was losing my touch at spotting Billy Ego socks when that initial checkuser came back unrelated. MastCell 16:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Witch5000

Witch5000 (talk · contribs) has multiple warnings about copyright violations of image uploads on his/her Talk page, has yet to reply to a single warning. Is repeatedly adding album covers to the article Reveille (band), even though I have repeatedly explained to them how this is not a good thing, but they won't respond and won't stop. At one point, started using 75.153.165.138 (talk · contribs) to do the same thing, but still wouldn't respond to warnings. Corvus cornix 06:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

 Done - I blocked both earlier on AIV - Alison ☺ 06:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Legal threat

Is this blockable? Corvus cornix 06:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

No, just lame. Riana (talk) 06:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of which, this user is a minor revealing a great deal of personal information about himself on his User page. Corvus cornix 06:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of those restrictions on minors revealing personal information ever became policy.--Chaser - T 06:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

(ec) It's totally MySpace-y & is userbox hell. Dunno if the personal info aspect warrants it, though. I'd love to delete it on the grounds of aesthetic offence, however ... - Alison ☺ 07:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

No, not policy. Just common sense. Riana (talk) 07:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Protecting children's privacy says Reasonable efforts to discourage children from disclosing identifying personal information are appropriate and Users who appear to be children editing in good faith who disclose identifying personal information may be appropriately counseled. Deletion and oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information.. Corvus cornix 07:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"... in appropriate cases ..." - define "appropriate". In this case, the fact that the guy reveals his full name concerns me here, but everything else seems reasonable at a glance - Alison ☺ 07:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The city he lives in and the school he goes to? Corvus cornix 07:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ummm - I'm deleting that - Alison ☺ 07:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. ☺ Corvus cornix 07:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Userpage deleted. We have to have some limits. Riana (talk) 07:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it is blockable, technically, although a block probably isn't really necessary given the implausibility involved. He appears to be threatening to have his mom sue wikipedia for not removing that image. That would be a legal threat, albeit a very lame one... we could ask him to clarify, though, if it isn't clear. --Aquillion 07:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I have cooled down that dispute before this thread started. And the "legal threats" were just grasping at straws, so just dismiss them as empty talk, at least for now. —Kurykh 07:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I suppose this might be considered another legal threat/rant: . bibliomaniac15 17:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

And I thought recruiting an admin into my discussion with User:Hornetman16 would defuse things... seems that his objections to the photo is not founded in anything other than an intense desire to have it removed. Flyguy649_contribs 18:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

About his userpage? He's just gone up the foodchain a bit Flyguy649_contribs 18:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Which I would imagine wont do him much good at all, I left a link to his talk page so if Jimbo really wants to he can get an explanantion there, SqueakBox 18:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The only method of getting him into constructive conversation was to appeal to his religious beliefs, which was laid out quite blatantly on his user page. Unorthodox, yes, but if it works, hey, what the heck. —Kurykh 18:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User Ilya1166 refuses to cooperate

Some russian editors are trying to put category "Russian speaking countries and territories" on baltic states: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. The master category "Countries by language", clearly states: "To categorize countries per official language. When a country does not have an official language (e.g. the United States), a de facto categorization is used." Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have official language which are respectively Estonian_language, Latvian_language and Lithuanian_language. Although other editors have calmed down, User:Ilja1166 refuses to cooperate and claims that because there is large amount of russians living in Baltic States the de facto official language is still Russian (which is factually incorrect aswell, cause statistically de jure languages are spoken much more). He also claims that other editors motives are extreme nationality. That is false. Baltic states do not have Russian as official language. Latvia and Estonia have large russian minority, who sometimes talk Russian. Lithuania has smaller russian minority. Although some people DO talk russian here, these countries are not russian speaking.

I am asking administrative advice on that user. He was blocked before for editwarring but obviously this didn't help. Suva 10:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Please use WP:DR to resolve content disputes such as this. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

You could try a Request for Comments as a first step. — Carl (CBM · talk) 19:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Suspected sock puppet

Tripartite keeps reverting the Ho Yeow Sun article. He sounds very similar to a banned account, look here: Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Jing13 and look under Tripartite007. Also they both seem to edit the same pages. - 222.164.84.146 10:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, the Ho Yeow Sun article is getting a lot of vandalism. - 222.164.84.146 10:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocked as an obvious sock of User:Tripartite007, himself a blocked meat/sockpuppet of User:Jing13. I've also semi-protected the page given the amount of IP-related vandalism. MastCell 17:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Block evasion by Hubier

I've lost sight of Hubier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) after he was blocked for a week for continued image vandalism (replaced sourced images with unsourced, often fanmade ones). I only just noticed he's created a new account, Jb007ltkill (talk · contribs), to continue vandalising images (notice the exact same editing pattern), while he was blocked. Hubier's block has run out by now, but can someone still do something about this? He's clearly just here to play around.--Atlan (talk) 10:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Both accounts indef blocked.--Wafulz 15:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Abuse

I'm not sure where to report this but here goes. User:203.70.94.203 kept removing warnings and posting abuse on their talk page. I reverted twice, there were other reverts from other users also. Next thing, User:59.105.17.165 chimes in with this. Observing the intermittent use of the caps lock key and the general style I suspect that they may be the same. Whether this comes under sockpuppet, meatpuppet, abuse or just vanilla vandalism I don't know but I think someone should perhaps keep an eye on this lad. pablomismo_|\talk 11:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

They may remove warnings if they wish, although it is frowned upon. Viridae 11:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Last of the Time Lords

Just a note: you may want to keep a watch on this talk page - two discussions about sourcing an item on gay.com UK have degenerated into IPs attacking homosexuality in general - I've removed both so far, but I think the same IPs will start up again. Will 12:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll have a look, over the next few days. They seem to be active around 12:00-13:00 UTC or so, though, so I may be useful only in retrospect. – Luna Santin (talk) 16:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I've put it on my watchlist. I'm in the UK so hopefully my sleep and edit patterns will approximate the discussion there. LessHeard vanU 20:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

King levitation

There are multiple registered and unregistered people (it could be a single user with sock puppets) claiming that the name of the article King levitation goes against copyright/trademark laws, and they keep deleting the method because the method is for sale by a company and/or because of the claim that the title is copyrighted. I'm not sure if this is big enough to be reported but they do talk about copyright laws. Jeffrey.Kleykamp 14:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The Wizard Squad have been trying this one on for years. See Talk:Out of This World (card trick)#Request_for_comment and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/King levitation. Their claims of copyright, patent, or trade-secret protection are nonsense, but they continue to agitate on their wizard websites with prestidigitatory posts encouraging vandalism of this and a swathe of related articles. They're vandals; treat them accordingly. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I've always suggested they contact the Wikimedia Office or OTRS, if they're serious, but for the most part they seem intent on vigilante enforcement. The claims of infringement have always seemed rather nebulous (and perhaps made up on the spot?), but giving them that information does allow them to escalate if it is appropriate. For the time being, I've semi-protected King levitation for 72 hours, it's been getting hit more than usual, recently. Please advise if there's anything else I should do when this crops up, beyond with Finlay McWalter said, as I've handled it a few times previously, too. – Luna Santin (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

User page as possible attack page

What is the policy or usual method of acting when one encounters a user page that may be genuine, but looks to me more like an attackpage? I mean something like User:Robthenerd1990, which is possibly not written by this Rob Boot but by e.g. a school "friend" (I can't imagine someone saying about himself "Hi I'm a Christian nerd and a nazi). Warn? Blank? Block? Leave alone? Fram 16:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• There is a previous account User:RobtheGate, who started the article Littlemoss High School which this "Rob" coincidentally says he also attended (and is the newer account's only mainspace edit). I'd say that it's an attack page. EliminatorJR 17:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Robthenerd1990 19:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)Its not an 'attackpage' and the fact that you consider it such makes you appear to be intolerant of the far-right, i was also 'robthegate' but i lost the password a few days after creating the account (i didn't give an email address for it so i couldn't get my password emailed) Why would i cover up my political or religious beliefs? I am openly a National Socialist and have been for a couple of years, i don't go shouting it but most people guess and if they ask ill tell them. Most Neo-Nazis are unlikely to cover up what they think unless they are trying to sabotage a red or anti site. I started the 'littlemoss' site as 'robthegate' and i rarely see the need to update a page and if i do it usually gets stopped even if i provide factual evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robthenerd1990 (talk • contribs)

redirect on "strategic investments"

the page "strategic investments" redirects to "MIT Blackjack Team". As this doesnt make sense, i deleted the redirect, which was immediately reverted by the bot. The same thing happened before when another user deleted the redirect. Please look this up, as i cant see any reason why this page should redirect to MIT... regards, matthias —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.235.2.156 (talk • contribs) 11:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Strategic Investments (note the capitalization) appears to be a reference to MIT Blackjack Team#Strategic Investments - 1992-1993. Unless you feel strongly that this redirect should be pointing somewhere else (keeping the principle of least astonishment in mind), I do not see any need to change it. --Kralizec! (talk) 17:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Editor with agenda

There's an editor who submitted two articles, both referencing non-existing pages, both with just a few sentences, the bulk of which were attacks on the articles' subject (BLP). I edited the offending and inaccurate material out of both, leaving a single line of text, then submitted for deletion as attack articles under BLP to get the histories removed (one person probably didn't meet WP:BIO, I don't remember about the other). Both articles were immediatley and quickly removed from Misplaced Pages. However, it appears that the editor at issue has an agenda that is being perpetuated on Misplaced Pages, an agenda related to attacking a certain author. I was wondering if anything more should be done about this editor, and what? They may have stopped after the deletions, but I don't know if that is sufficient.

Please, if you're an admin, don't access my contributions and find and post the name of the editor I'm discussing, just offer me suggestions on what more, if anything I should do. Thanks.

PS In spite of the reactionary nature of the policy on BLP, being able to just tag articles with attack and get them deleted ASAP is appropriate for an on-line encyclopedia where "anyone can edit." It works, and it works well, and it works how it is supposed to work, at least in these cases. KP Botany 19:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The right things to do is document the user's behavior and, if you feel it is necessary, make a full case here on ANI for a block. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Hornetman16 (talk · contribs) blocked

I blocked Hornetman16 for 12 hours after events described both here, on his user talk page, and on this IFD he's been disrupting. However, he continues to declare that he will not rest until the image being IFDed (which is somewhat controversial in itself) is deleted. Would it be a good idea to increase the length of his block? --Coredesat 19:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• I say leave it as it is, if he disrupts post block, then he'll get reblocked fairly quickly. Having said that, by his post block comments, an increase in block length would still be protective..... Ryan Postlethwaite 19:57, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• I declined his first unblock request. I also cleaned up his userpage (it had personally identifiable information on it, and he's a minor) for him. Honestly, as long as he promises to continue to disrupt our processes and get that image deleted "as God as his witness," I don't see him being a productive member of the community. ^demon 19:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• *bangs head on desk* He evaded his block to edit his userpage then told me it was ridiculous that he couldn't edit it. --Deskana (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I just semi-protected his userpage so he can't try that again. ^demon 20:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• I think the block should be left as is, but if he rsumes after it expires then the next block should be much longer. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• When me and Alison admonished him for editing while blocked, he asked someone else to let him. I'm starting to think he's not going to fit in here. He's showing contempt for the rules. I feel somewhat sorry for him but that's being counterbalanced by how much he's driving me insane. --Deskana (talk) 20:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• He's driving me insane(r), too. However, I think we need to defuse the situation and back away. I'm going to protect his page for a few hours for unblock abuse. He needs to step away, too, and take a breather here. Besides, you just reset his block to 12 hours from just now! - Alison ☺ 20:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Holding off with the prot, as I think he's stopped. We'll see - Alison ☺ 20:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• He's persistent, that's for sure, and does not currently seem interested in community consensus. I hope he'll learn, but I am somewhat skeptical. Flyguy649_contribs 20:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• I just gave him a 5 minute lesson on xFD. Hopefully this will clear up the issues of why we don't accept "my mom says it's illegal." ^demon 20:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I've been dealing with him since the beginning of the current IfD. I have served him a formal warning and admonishment. My patience is running extremely thin. —Kurykh 21:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Hornetman16 has since promised to change his behavior; I am ready to unblock him if there are no objections. --Coredesat 22:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

BLP again

The subject of the debate I'm trying to have (tricky since the other side doesn't appear to want to take part) is the subject of external links and weather they are sources and what standards should apply for them. This isn’t directly a matter for WP:AN/I

However the problem is the behaviour of some of my fellow editors. Now I admit I’m suffering a bit of an attack of “the good old days” but it used to be that when you reverted someone you would leave at least a token comment on the talk page (heh could be quite funny in some cases with the blatantly token ones). Obviously I accept times have changed but Misplaced Pages:Revert#Explain_reverts still supports this position.

Why is this a problem? Well I like debate. Facts, logic and reasoning this is what I feel policy should be built on. At the moment I’m getting blunt force reverts (and the odd argument by assertion or ah hom) which makes doing these things difficult. I would like the people who take a different position to me discuss on the talk page but obviously I can’t force this. What should I do? Geni 21:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Brpminchio (talk · contribs)

From his or her contributions list, appears to be semi-subtle spamming over a two-week span. All 60+ contribs, most unreverted, are a list of links to the same site, section titled 'The Great Vitoria knows' with each listing giving descriptions as images and tips. At the linked site, however, only a Google map image displays with a lot of surrounding advertising. Since it's in a foreign language, maybe I'm missing something important. -- Michael Devore 21:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks. They left quite a mess (thank goodness for rollback!). I've indefinitely blocked the account as single purpose / spamming & if they return, we can review the block. - Alison ☺ 22:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Repeated personnal attacks and vandalism by User:132.211.195.38

In Talk:Barbara Kay controversy, Talk:Montreal-style bagel, User talk:Boffob. Notice his edits to the main articles, repeatedly reverting to older versions by User:Lance6968, just like anonymous similar IP's such as 132.211.195.82, 132.206.58.39, 132.211.195.57 and 132.211.195.140 (and possibly others) have done in the past. Some of those IP's were blocked before for this kind of behavior.--Boffob 22:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles fair use review

I needed an admin to review the status of this article to see if it violates fair use. I noticed that it had a quite a bit of audio samples on it, to be exact, 25 of them. Under our fair use policy, wouldn't that contradict the fact we should have minimal use? — Moe ε 23:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I acknowledge I am biased (ex WikiProject The Beatles) but are you aware how much influence the Beatles have on Western 20th Century culture? 25 samples? Which ones did they have to leave out? LessHeard vanU 00:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem is more that they aren't discussed than that they're being overused. --tjstrf talk 00:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

For an article that lost its FA status for, amongst other things, being too large? Another aspect of attempting to square the circle that is being castigated for being both too complex and too concise..? Oh, don't pay attention to me - I'm just an editor who opted for the more tranquil waters of NPA than attempt to satisfy the contrary demands of third parties on one of the most popular hits for WP (oh, and vandalism... what the individual FA gets in its day in the sun is what The Beatles gets every other day!) Look at it this way, would Einstien be questioned over the over-reliance of mathematical equations in the article? What Einstien was to physics then the Beatles were to Western popular culture... thus ends the rant! Anyhow, I've mentioned this at Talk:The Beatles - which might have been a good venue to commence this discussion. LessHeard vanU 01:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

That sure was a lot of senseless babbling to say, "I moved the conversation to Talk:The Beatles... — Moe ε 01:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Trademark violation?

This is a long shot, but is there any action to take regarding this? Background information: about a week ago, Istarlive (talk · contribs) created articles like Istarlive and IStarLive which were A7/G11'd, and I username blocked the user. Today JamesterDude (talk · contribs) moved User:Istarlive to Istarlive and claims it is a trademark violation for "IStarLive" to be used to refer to a user. -SpuriousQ (talk) 00:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of the trademark issue (which legally is a non-starter), to prevent further spamming, I've removed the invalid redirect and salted User:Istarlive. AKRadecki 01:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I added Istarlive to protected titles, given its long history of creation/deletion. AKRadecki 01:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Block requested: User admits being a sockpuppet

User Evenpaint (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has admitted using a sock puppet Protectpeople (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) of puppet master His excellency (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). Both names should be blocked (Eventpaint, ProtectPeople). --Matt57 01:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Riana. --Matt57 02:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Prank image on John Scalzi

John Scalzi is an award-winning sci-fi author...a while back, he put a prank photoshopped picture of himself (Image:Scalzidevil.jpg) in his own article and noted the act on his blog. I'm actually a Scalzi fan, but the image, while maybe suitable for his userpage, is not really suitable for his Misplaced Pages article. I removed the image and nominated the orphaned image for deletion, but it's already been restored. Off-wiki, Scalzi has prompted editing of his article before; it would probably be best to head off an off-wiki campaign before it happens by deleting the image. Videmus Omnia 02:04, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

If it was uploaded as GFDL, I see no reason for deleting. Just move the photo out of the infobox, and add a caption. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Move it out of the infobox, it'll scare the kiddies. See no reason not to have it otherwise, gives people a bit of insight into the man. Riana (talk) 02:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

(ec) It seems somewhat representative of the guy and is properly licensed. It's a bit unencyclopedic, perhaps, but the again what harm? I think it's kinda cool actually - Alison ☺ 02:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, thanks. Videmus Omnia 02:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and it's fine for the guy to edit wikipedia and, to an extent, his own article. However, his article could use a {{Notable Wikipedian}} tag - Alison ☺ 02:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It's on the talk page. Videmus Omnia 02:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Re-post about WP:POINT

Help, please Could someone review this post; these issues have not been resolved or even addressed. I have refrained from editing these pages, pending someone's intervention, and I don't want another edit war to start. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 03:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The post looks like a content dispute. Have you considered using the dispute resolution process? — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

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