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Doug Coldwell (talk · contribs); original research, content forking, and material in userspace

I'm having a problem with an editor who has repeatedly tried to place his original research in a range of articles, and has now turned to content forking to achieve his goals.

On June 19, I nominated Francesco Dionigi, an article created by User:Doug Coldwell, for deletion (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Francesco Dionigi). He later copied a substantial portion of that article's text into a new article, Birthday of alpinism, which I have now nominated for deletion (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Birthday of alpinism). In my opinion, this is an evasion of the AfD process through content forking.

But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Doug maintains an impressive array of sandboxes in his user space. For instance, his sandbox 50 is an essay on the ancient Greek work eidos; he has tried to include bits of this in the articles idea, Theory of forms, and eidos (philosophy); when these attempts were rejected by other editors as original research or irrelevant, he created eidon (now up for deletion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Eidon). As another example, Doug created the article Good sense (now deleted) from material in his Sandbox 48 (most of the revisions have been deleted at his request); this material, somewhat reworked, has now shown up in Good will (philosophy). A set of sandboxes, User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_47, User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_63, User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_65, and User:Doug_Coldwell/Sandboxes/Sandbox_67 contains ideas related to the ancient Greek word Nous--which have shown up in Nous and Noema, among other articles. Note also that an anon IP, probably belonging to Doug, requested the creation of Divine Nous on June 8, after Doug had encountered stiff resistance to his edits on Nous; Doug now supports merging Divine Nous into Nous.

Doug does not agree that his articles are forks (see his comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Birthday of alpinism). I'd appreciate some outside opinions as to whether there's any policy violations here, including whether Doug's sandboxes are appropriate. --Akhilleus (talk) 18:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• • Comments regarding these points:
    • True, sandbox 50 is the article Eidon, which I worked out in a sandbox first before making it an article. However did not first try to put these ideas into other articles. I make edits to these other articles, but not on this particular subject.
    • true I do have an array of sandboxes to work out the articles first in a soadbox, however note most are deleted. Only the remaining are being now worked on.
      • You can go through my Contributions and see how I work and edit in the sandboxes. I make as many improvements as I can before I enter and make it a new article. You can see through the history how this went, then shortly therafter the new article was actually made. This sometimes actually makes an article so good in initial quality that ultimately there are few or no further improvements - example Petrarch's library and Palazzo Molina and Francesco Nelli and Petrarch's testamentum.
    • Sandbox 47 is the article Nous pretty much the way I worked it out in the sandbox. The points that I improved upon must not have been objectionable to other editors, since most of it is still there. The original article before I did a major overhaul was last edited on April 9. I did the overhaul (worked out in a sandbox first) on April23 - which most of that is still there to this day (so apparently other editors didn't object to most of it). Of course some edits have been done since then for additional improvements.
    • Sandbox 63 is the Noesis article worked out in this sandbox first. Yes, this part was later deleted.
    • Sandbox 65 is the article Noema which I did a major upgrade to on June 17 - no editor has objected or even made any edits to it since I did this major improvement.
    • Sandbox 67 is only dictionary definitions I made to this "new" sandbox of as June 16. I haven't even worked with this material yet since I just obtained it.
    • Birthday of alpinism is a completely different subject that Francesco Dionigi which is explained in Talk of the prior. They happen to have common denominators that couldn't be avoided in the new article. If different references are desired, I can certainly furnish that. The article so far has received nothing but Keep from other editors.
      • Its interesting since these Keep votes have come in --Akhilleus has made several improvement edits to this article he nominated to be deleted.
    • I agreed with merging Divine Nous with Nous to go along with the other editors to expide the process. If I would have objected, then there would of course been an objection to this. So to make matters simplier and to expide this I figured this was the best procedure. It really doesn't matter with me if Divine Nous is merged, not merged, or deleted. Whichever they feel they want to do with the article is fine by me because it looks like Nous pretty well covers all the points anyway. I was just trrying to help matters by going along with everyone else. Whereever they want my vote on this is fine by me, since it doesn't matter to me. I haven't put in a vote one way or the other on the article or edited it.
    • Other articles I have started (many of which are few or no edits) are on my User page - mostly concerned with Petrarch.--Doug 19:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
• Sandbox 50 has many deleted revisions that are substantially similar to Doug's contribution to Eidos (philosophy) (). Doug tried to include similar material in idea () and theory of forms (). Doug's changes have been objected to on the talk pages of those articles (e.g. , ), and some have been reverted. After most of the material that Doug contributed to Eidos (philosophy) was removed , Doug started the article eidon, which is so close to the removed material from eidos (philosophy) that it's a content fork. --Akhilleus (talk) 20:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes I did make major improvements to the article Idea starting on May 15 - most of which are still there to this day (so apparently other editors are not objecting).
    

Here are some example parts I added for improvements that are still there and were not there before I added them and are not being objected to:

History of the term "Idea"

Where ideas come from

Francesco Petrarch

René Descartes

John Locke additions

David Hume additions

Immanuel Kant additions

picture of "Walk of Ideas"

Wilhelm Wundt additions

Validity of ideas

Many additional references and sources added with inline citations and footnotes - including new Bibliography. Basically all the References now on the article are what I contributed. The article previously did not have a Reference section - I provided all the references - a major improvement.--Doug 20:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• • • P.S. Forgot about the parts where I expanded the "See Also" section and added the links to

Wikisource

Wikibooks

Wikiquote

Wikiversity

--Doug 21:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• Whether you've improved Idea is discussed at Talk:Idea. As you know, because you were part of the discussion, not everyone thinks you've improved the article. However, the reason I started the discussion here is not because of your edits to Idea in and of themselves; it's because you're creating articles like Birthday of alpinism and eidon as content forks. --Akhilleus (talk) 21:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Look at it this way - its obvious that I am trying to make major improvements to Misplaced Pages as is shown by my work. Perhaps I don't get every little rule correct, however assume good faith. If I broke a rule somewhere, it wasn't intentional. I am not trying to put in any particular "ideas" that others are objecting to. If they object to something I put in, I just let them take it out and leave it be. Its just not that important to me rather it is there or not. Most however is not objected to and is still there, so it must be alright. If you don't like something I added to an article, just take it out - I really don't care. There are so many articles to work on that I am too busy anyway to be concerned with nit-pick items. I didn't see you objecting to these points I added to the article Idea. As I already explained in the Talk section of Birthday of alpinism, this is entirely a different article with "different" viewpoints. If you want different references (being the only content items similar to the two articles), then just let me know and I will obtain them for the same material, since there are many references on this material. Eidon is also a differnt article (or anyway I thought it was when I initially wrote it), however you feel they are close - so my suggestion is then why not merge them to make one good article since Eidos is now a stub. It obvious by the quality of my articles that my intentions are to write excellent articles - which apparently I have since most are not edited much. There are some however that do get a fair amount of activity and become an outstanding article from what I started - example being Aemilia Tertia. So my friend whatever you want to do with Divine Nous, Nous, Eidon, or Eidos, it really doesn't matter to me. I have bigger and better things to do. My next major improvement will be on Giovanni Boccaccio and the article On Famous Women - so I thought I would give you a heads start on this one. FYI: I am the one that found the ISBN number for it.--Doug 21:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This is the second article I have seen by Doug Coldwell in two days. They are both empty pieces of nonsense, formed about a small fact, and bolstered by irrelevant references. This editor is seriously disruptive. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• Not quite sure what you are referring to on edits however here are a few in the last couple of days

1. Petrarch - Added that Cicero, Virgil, and Seneca were his literary models.)
2. History of Rome of a similar climb by Philip of Macedon, the same who waged war against the Romans (ascended Mount Haemus in Thessaly).

These are not exactly "disruptive" edits, however are constructive. In addition, you can see the quality of my articles I have started and work on.--Doug 23:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary: this edit, small though it is, is destructive and incompetent guesswork. "Philip of Macedon, the same who waged war against the Romans" is an (uncredited) quote from Petrarch; leaving out the quotation marks was already irresponsible. But that Philip is not Philip II of Macedon, as actually reading Misplaced Pages's article on him would have told Coldwell; Macaulay's schoolboy would have known it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This is strong language, and I was testy when I posted it; but, upon consideration, I cannot call any of the words here wrong. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 13:53, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, it is true I did a major upgrade and major improvements to the article Nous on April 23. If you compare what I added, it turns out most of that also is still there to this day (so apparently has not been objected to by other editors). These are the Sections that were not there before that I added for improvements that are still there as major improvements:

Anaxagoras

Plato

Aristotle

Alexander of Aphrodisias

Neoplatonism

Plotinus

Augustinian Neoplatonism

The Section originally called "History" with identically the same wording has been relabeled "Overview of usage by ancient Greeks" and moved to the top. These are all major improvements which are still there to this day which no editors are objecting to. Of course there has been some additional edits to improvement my major improvements, which is to be expected (since there is always room for improvement). My major improvements have been then a springboard for other editors to work from, which they have. The previous edit before my major improvements was on April 9, which then was basically a stub with no references. It is now a full good quality article with the major improvements I made (which have been improved upon even more). The part of certain IP addresses of Divine Nous "probably belonging to Doug" is just that, a guess. There has been 5 different IP addresses that have worked on Divine Nous. I noticed that Nous, the article I made all these major improvements to, was flagged that perhaps Divine Nous should be merged with it. My first choice would be to delete Divine Nous, however had I said that there would of course been an objection. So since there only 4 choices here (merge, no merge, delete, keep) I chose to merge since this apparently was what the other editors wanted, so I went along with them. Whichever vote they want from me on that article I will be glad to give, if I knew what they wanted without an objection.

If you go through the last 2000 edits I did in my Contributions you can see the parttern is that I work out an article first in a sandbox. Then when all the bugs have been worked out and all the improvements added, I then make it a new article (or a major section improvement to an existing article). This then produces quality and there are few (if any) further edits needed for some time for these major improvements made. Also you can see the many other improvements I have made to many other articles (from ice cream to botanical gardens to science to history) as well as much vandelism reverted. There are times these improvements are then even improved further, which is the way it should be.--Doug 11:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

In other words, you don't edit cooperatively. This is a wiki; the product of several minds is usually better than one. And when your "improvement" is justly criticized, as at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Francesco Dionigi, youi create another article with the same information and the same sources, and lie about it. The temptation to do so must be strong; that is a lot of work to waste; but it would be better to edit cooperatively from the beginning. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 13:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd say I edit in a very cooperative manner and try to please as many other Wikipedians as I can. Ultimately I won't be able to please all, however most times I can please most others. I have noticed that certain areas are however more sensitive than others, in particular religion and philosophy. One example, in these other fields, where recently an editor felt I wrote up an article that looked like an advertisement for a historical society. That was not intentional when I wrote up the article, since I have no connections to the society (therefore no motive). Anyway I rewrote the article (in cooperation with other editor requests) so that it didn't look like an advertisement, which completely satisfied all the other editors. That article is Mason County Historical Society. Other articles that I have started that have been expanded and improved much, that I contributed again to in cooperation with other Wikipedians, that ultimately produced a quality article are:

• Aemilia Tertia
• Self-guided tour
• Weymouth New Testament
• De Viris Illustribus (Petrarch)
• Genealogia deorum gentilium
• Epistolae familiares
  

Other articles that I work on often in full cooperation with other Wikipedians are:

• Harpers Ferry National Historical Park
• Poplar Forest
• North Carolina Transportation Museum
• Atalaya Castle (all pictures are mine)
• Brookgreen Gardens - my favorite botanical gardens
• Petrarch - my favorite subject
• Boccaccio - second most favorite subject
• Africa (Petrarch)
• Montpelier (James Madison)
• Self storage (place of employment)
• Club Med - where I travel often.
• Carrom - favorite game as a child
• Ludington, Michigan - place where I would like to retire to.
• Ludington State Park - favorite state park
• Montpelier (James Madison) - favorite presidential historical house
• Biltmore Estate - tourist attraction I visit often
• Williamsburg - favorite tourist attraction (videos are mine)
• 1964 New York World's Fair - personally went there then (contributed several pictures to Wikicommons)
• Street light interference - my favorite science project.
• oatmeal - my favorite food.
• ice cream - my favorite desert.
• Scipio Africanus - my favorite ancient history subject (except maybe for Plato and Aristotle)
• Second Punic War - favorite historical war event
  

There are several more articles I work on in full cooperation with several other Wikipedians, however the list would get too long if put here.--Doug 17:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

In this case, you may get a more productive result out of a request for comment than out of the Admin noticeboard, as there does not seem to be a clear-cut policy violation. I would recommend listing it there and seeing what sort of comments come out of the woodwork. Pastordavid 16:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, does seem to be turning into one, doesn't it? I will be busy for a few days; if someone else write one, please post here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism

How about copying right out of the Encyclopedia Britannica? Compare the earliest revision of Genealogia deorum gentilium (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Genealogia_deorum_gentilium&oldid=106348439)--"Boccaccio's on the genealogy of the gods of the gentiles is a scholarly interpretive compendium of classical myth... It was the first ever in a very long line of Renaissance mythographies." and the Encyclopedia Britannica article on Humanism: "His De genealogia deorum gentilium (“On the Genealogy of the Gods of the Gentiles”), a scholarly interpretive compendium of classical myth, was the first in a long line of Renaissance mythographies;..." That's a direct quote, copied into Misplaced Pages without attribution; given Doug's seeming unfamiliarity with research standards I believe he was unaware that was he was doing was incorrect, but it is plagiarism and copyright violation nonetheless. I have to wonder if the same problem is present in other articles he's written. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that, it was unintentional. I often work from the 1911 Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, which text I understand is public domain. If you found certain text from Encyclopedia Britannica that you think is copyright, could you please remove it as perhaps I placed it there by mistake thinking it was public domain text -or- make the correct reference to what it should be. Normally if I know some text is copyright I make the appropriate reference and give credit where it should be. Example on the article Street Light Interference I quote Hilary Evans on page 16 as to What seems most likely to be happening in this phenomenon and placed it in quoteblocks - which to the other editors I am working with on this article seem to think is the correct procedure. So if you find where I accidently placed some text that is copyright someplace, please make the correct references or let me know so I can correct.--Doug 19:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Public Domain status doesn't mean it's not plagarism. You still must attribute the words of Thomas Paine or Shakespeare to their authors. I suggest, quite seriously, you research plagarism as it applies ot the writing of papers and such. You've probably got an old high school/college copy of Strunk & White's somewhere, might be worth keeping it at hand as you continue to edit Misplaced Pages. ThuranX 22:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"Britannica", in this case, did not mean the 1911 Britannica; the text was copied from this page, which is copyright 2007. There's little doubt that the text was copied from that page, because it was one of the external links in the original version of Genealogia deorum gentilium. --Akhilleus (talk) 00:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

As you can see in my other articles I do give credit if it is copyright material - two such examples are in Francescuolo da Brossano in addition to the examples in Street Light Interference described above. The material for the major section additions I added above to Nous and Idea were public domain text. I referenced this as such at the bottom. Article of Idea has a very extensive Reference section now that I added, where there was nothing before I made the major improvements to the article. The article on May 14 was tagged as not having any references - so I provided many. I do 1000's of edits and apparently at that monent thought it was the 1911 public domain text of Britannica. I realize it was a short sentence, however should have been credited accordingly anyway. Thanks for noticing this and removing the text. I'll watch it closer in the future.--Doug 20:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can only agree that Doug's edits have been disruptive and damaging to the quality of the encyclopedia. When I nominated some of Doug's work on Jerome's De viris illustribus for deletion, I provided some documentation of his original research agenda (for example, to prove that the New Testament was written only several hundred years ago). More recently, at Talk:Divine_Nous (diff), Doug has denied any connection to anonymous IP edits from his area of Michigan that are very obviously him. I think this should be investigated, and that his lies to make himself look better/different should be weighed in any evaluation of how he participates in the Misplaced Pages community. I warmly embrace the amateur nature of the Misplaced Pages project, but Doug is a crackpot, not an amateur. He edits and creates many articles about ancient Greek philosophical ideas, not because he is interested in them or knows anything about them, but because they fit into his original-research project. Most recently, after I called successfully for the deletion of "Good sense" Doug has put the same dubious, half-understood, error-riddled, and often nonsensical material at several other articles (Idea, Nous, Divine Nous, Eidos (philosophy), etc.). These contributions have been thrown together by a method totally contrary to any integrity; they are full of footnotes, but in fact the citations (I've looked some up in my library!) often do not justify Doug's original-research statements, and Doug culls indiscriminately from any bad source (he treats ref-desk answers as fact; he has recently been treating John Opsopaus as an actual source for ancient Greek ideas, as in a recent attempt to get yet another fork going at Noesis!), so that it's much worse than nothing. The few expert editors out there (I don't claim to be an expert in Neoplatonism, but like Akhilleus I know ancient Greek) struggle to keep up with and contain these messes. In the history of my involvement with Misplaced Pages, I have generally been content to see quality material build up; Doug's projects stand out as the only counter-argument that seems to say, "Misplaced Pages doesn't work; a small team of expert classicists is not enough to keep several articles from reflecting garbage ideas from one problem user, which the community has no effective way to keep up with." I'd love to be proven wrong and see the system do something here, & send the message that if the scholars on Misplaced Pages express unanimous dismay about bad material, it can count for something, & that the system will work and keep the bad material from spreading and lingering. Wareh 02:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• For those not up on the problems here: This is not even a plausible crankery. The New Testament is the best attested Ancient Greek work of literature; it has a dozen manuscripts of pre-Byzantine date, (and hundreds of papyrus fragments) all in genuine third to sixth-century writing, found all over the Eastern Mediteranean, and many of them with Koine variants not in the standard text. The Church fathers quoted all of it, one place or another. Petrarch didn't have enough Greek to read Homer. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• Unfortunately, this is almost all content disputes, probably beyond ArbCom's mandate. Do we need a problem editors page, with the resulting abuses? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Lava_lamp

I understand that there is some sort of copyright issue going on, but that isn't my concern. My concern is that I found it using Special:shortpages, even though there is an invisible comment which states it is supposed to avoid that list. Is there something going on?--Flamgirlant 02:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• It's been blanked due to OTRS actions for almost a week now. However, the 'short pages' comment-text was only added today & as the short pages page itself is populated from a snapshot of cache, it took its 'snapshot' of the page when it was at 0 bytes. - Alison ☺ 02:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I see. So as long as it never hits zero, it should be fine, right? --Flamgirlant 02:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Yep. Don't ask what that threshold is, though, as I've no idea! :) - Alison ☺ 02:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
      • The threshhold for appearing ont he shortpages list is a moving target, but currently is tending to be around 106 characters. The key is that the cached versions only lists 1,000 pages. So it includes the shortest 1,000 pages at the moment it is run. It tends to be run every 3-4 days currently, and will likely be run either later today or tomorrow. If you like working woth shortpages, you might also want to check out User:Zorglbot/Shortpages. This is a bot generated parsing of the special::shortpages data, and nicely categorizes the contents of the shortpages data. The Zorglbot report is also run daily, so while it cannot pick up newly shorted pages until the master cache is updated, it at least nicely shows the current status of all those pages that were on the previous master cache.
        • As for the invisible comment, that reflects back to the 1,000 article limit for the cache data. I tend to drop that comment on a variety of pages that show up on the shortpages list, but really are not needing attention from regular short pages patrollers. Salting templates, Wiktionary soft redirect, copyvio notices, and the blanked Lava Lamp page. All these are pages that show up on the list, but really do not need attention from the short pages patrollers. And every one of these that I can bump down off the list is one more page that can make it into the 1,000 that may actually benefit from the attention of the patrollers. - TexasAndroid 13:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• Another OTRS drive-by... I've restored it to a stub-level article. It would be nice if the OTRS guy came back at some point to fix the article but... don't hold your breath. --W.marsh 02:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• This I've gotta see: what possible OTRS issue can there be about Lava lamp? Especially one that requires blanking? --Calton | Talk 02:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • See the article's talk page... some kind of corporate trademark thing. Similar to Frisbee at a glance. --W.marsh 03:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I recommend you don't actually stub it as the issue (from the edit history) is over whether the term "lava lamp" can constitute a genericized trademark or not. Your edits just now say that yes, it is, and it's obvious that Haggerty Enterprises disagree. Not sure if I want to go there ... - Alison ☺ 03:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
    • So improve it. But I see nothing in the current version claiming it's a genericized trademark. It just describes what a lava lamp/Lava Lamp looks like. --W.marsh 03:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
    • I think that we should have notified User_talk:Swatjester#Lava_Lamp before going ahead and adding content to the article. I've never heard of OTRS, so I can't help any here.--Flamgirlant 03:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
      • (to w.marsh) Yes, but they're likely claiming that Lava Lamp™ is a trademark which is their property, while you're referring to it as a generic term. That's bound to piss them off, esp. given their court proceedings against Mathmos, no? It's not as simple as it looks, hence OTRS - Alison ☺ 04:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
    • I can't find the OTRS ticket referred to, but I suspect the complaint is either that we are genericizing their trademark, or that we aren't using the approved name: "LAVA(r) brand motion lamp". Based on that, any article at that title will be a problem. --Carnildo 05:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Sorry but what the bloody else do we call it (not have a go at wikipedia or wikipedians, just the idiot company). That is most definitely a genericized trademark. Viridae 07:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
        • Apparently, they're "motion lamps" or even "Astro Lamps" (the original name). I guess the people who own the name Lava Lamp™®(r)(C) get very het up about these things - Alison ☺ 07:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
          • Never ever heard them called anything but Lava lamps. Viridae 07:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
            • There seem to be endless companies other than these 2 selling things called lava lamps. But this is an article content issue, not a legal issue. We aren't selling something we claim is a trademarked Lava Lamp, we're just describing what people mean when they say something is a lava lamp. Part of that will include who owns the trademark and so on, it would help if they could provide coherent third party documentation. We need to make the article more accurate, not blank it. --W.marsh 11:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• I haven't been able to find the OTRS ticket number either. Maybe it was copy/pasted wrong? In any case there is no trademark issue as far as I can tell from my understanding of trademark issues. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 15:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• It's in the legal queue, which is why you can't see it. We've received a legal complaint from an attorney regarding this. The issue goes directly down to the words Lava lamp. Thus, I blanked the article completely: any use of the word lava lamp is disputed in the claim. REGARDLESS OF THE MERITS, please let us proceed through this to resolution before reinserting the information. The world will not end because this article is blanked for a little bit. ⇒ SWATJester 16:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • There has got to be a better way to handle it than this... hatcheting articles on demand and maybe fixing them at some point is an insult to people who work hard on articles. --W.marsh 16:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Maybe you have some misconception of what's going on here. It's not hatcheted on demand: it's a preventative response to a potential lawsuit. And we're not "maybe fixing them" at some point: it's under active investigation, and it WILL be fixed as soon as that ends. There's no insult there. Until that point, you need to trust that OTRS is doing their job. ⇒ SWATJester 17:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
      • I'll get some trust when I actually see OTRS fix an article they've hatcheted. I haven't seen that in a while... at one point they were quite good at fixing actual problems quietly. Now all I see are farces like Lava lamp. --W.marsh 17:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
        • Assume good faith? ⇒ SWATJester 19:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
          • Fix the article? --W.marsh 19:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
            • It will happen, as soon as we finish resolving things with the party. ⇒ SWATJester 01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Er, in order to keep a trademark good, doesn't one have to show a history of enforcing its use? I can recall past examples of various companies (Caterpillar is one that comes to mind) publishing notices in periodicals like Writer's Digest about their trademarks, but I have never seen any notices about "Lava lamp". And I can assure you that I would remember that -- because that would be like attempting to trademark "Acapulco Gold". -- llywrch 23:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
        • Here you go. This should explain to you why the entire article is blanked, as opposed to a 2 sentence stub or so. ⇒ SWATJester 01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
          • (Hope that's enough indents; sorry if it's too many) Yes, that's all very nice, but one sparrow does not mean spring is here. They have to enforce their copyright in a consistent & regular fashion; send out enough legal notices, & someone somewhere will cave. Waking up one morning after decades have passed, then siccing legal sharks after everyone using the word without the proper symbols after it, doesn't qualify as "consistent and regular". I hope whoever is handling this case is insisting on sufficient burden of proof that the people behind this complaint have made a reasonable attempt to enforce their trademark -- otherwise, we're not talking about caution, we're talking about caving in. -- llywrch 04:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
            • I fear that Haggerty are a bit late. The name lava lamp (uncapitalised) has been common currency in the UK for about thirty years... Guy (Help!) 09:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Would using the term "lava lamp" within the context of a scholarly article qualify as fair use? I think it would. Also, my understanding of the law on this is that owning a trademark does not give one carte blanche to force others to use it, as seems to be the case here. Trademark is meant to prevent other commercial entities from creating products that can be mistaken for the trademark holder's products. Since Misplaced Pages is not producing lava lamps motion lamps, calling the article about l**a l**ps "L**a l**p" should not be a problem. Besides, the term entered common currency long ago. At least they're leaving Volcano alone ... for now. --Dynaflow babble 09:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Ah, I think they may be overreaching if I'm reading their legal page correctly {I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice but an attempt to comprehend the situation with the sources available; please don't sue me, volcanic light-fixture people; etc.). From their legal terms page: "A 'lava lamp' does not exist." Their trademarks are LAVA®, LAVA LITE®, and LAVA WORLD INTERNATIONAL®; the term "l**a l**p," which the page asserts does not exist, does not appear to be trademarked by them, which would logically leave it free for generic use. Also demanded by Haggerty: "Somewhere on the page containing a LAVA® brand motion product, the following must be written: legalese, blah blah blah blah." There was probably an issue with having a picture of a "motion lamp" on the page without their legal language there, but it is my understanding of fair use that, if one takes a picture of a product, then that image belongs to the person who created it, and that would thus not constitute a trademark infringement. I am wondering why they have not trademarked "l**a l**p" and instead insist upon LAVA LITE®. Methinks someone might want to look into whether or not they applied for that trademark but couldn't get it because it was determined to be a generic term or was trademarked by someone else. --Dynaflow babble 10:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • According to TESS, a trademark for "Lava Lamp" is owned by a fireworks manufacturer in Missouri. In my search, I didn't find any explicit Haggerty trademark of the phrase "lava lamp," though they do seem to own "Lava Brand" in relation to lamps and such. Someone else should double-check that because I might not have looked in all the right places and might not be interpreting their entries correctly. In any case, this is from the Compact OED: lava lamp • noun a transparent electric lamp containing a viscous liquid in which a suspended waxy substance rises and falls in constantly changing shapes. I would love to see what happens if/when they issue a C&D order to the OED people. There will be fireworks, for sure. --Dynaflow babble 11:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
    • I hope our team of attorneys uses all of this excellent evidence to ensure our article can remain accurate and high-quality. --W.marsh 14:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
      • I expect the recent trend of expedient solutions and capitulation in the face of brute force to continue, but hey, the Foundation might just redeem itself this time. LOL at one of the LAVA LITE®'s own vendors' interpretation of Haggerty's trademark practices (at bottom of page): "Lava Lite® lamp and its configuation are both registered trademarks of Haggerty Enterprises, Inc., and they will SQUISH anyone who infringes upon their stuff." --Dynaflow babble 18:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Well done to User:Spikey for pointing out this potential trademark problem nearly 3 1/2 years ago! violet/riga (t) 14:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• The conflation of copyright and trademark at User talk:Swatjester#Lava Lamp is highly indicative that OTRS is once again failing here. A copyright dispute would involve someone copying something that is copyrighted. From the above, it is clear that this is about a trademark, not copyright. In addition to the Oxford English Dictionary mentioned above I add pages 14–16 of ISBN 0124001513, a reference work like Misplaced Pages, entitled "What Makes a Lava Lamp Work?", which talks about lava lamps throughout and which in turn references an article in the March 1991 issue of Popular Electronics entitled "How to Make a Lava Lamp.". Uncle G 20:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I don't like this any more than the rest of you, but let's keep this constructive. Someone at OTRS is doing the best job she/he can (I don't know if it is SwatJester, but for the moment Let's assume he's just here answering questions) -- although this person is not responding to this legal harassment with the appropriate attitude. I think that at this point the claim of infringement on their trademark is looking pretty dodgy to any uninvolved observer; we ought to give the person holding this hot potato at OTRS a chance to share with us any evidence that Haggerty has provided showing they have enforced their rights to "Lava lamp" -- or to take the evidence we've supplied & ask them to respond in a constructive manner. If this doesn't happen, then it would be the time to stop assuming good faith here. -- llywrch 00:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

OTRS does need to be held accountable though. The article has been in a useless limbo state for a week now with no resolution in sight... is this really acceptable? If this is the best volunteer OTRS can do nowadays, the foundation needs to seriously consider getting paid legal counsel back, as I doubt a qualified attorney would have had to handle it this way. --W.marsh 03:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• The Geological Society of America has published discussion by geologists of a "lava lamp model" of the Earth's mantle, by the way (Ian H. Campbell (2001). "Identification of ancient mantle plumes". In Richard E. Ernst and Kenneth L. Buchan (ed.). Mantle Plumes: Their Identification Through Time. Geological Society of America. p. 7. ISBN 0813723523.). I hope that the OTRS people will have the sense to reject outright any calls to blank mantle plume, diapir, and Mantle (geology)#Movement. Uncle G 20:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Republicofwiki

Republicofwiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Seems a bit suspicious for a newbie, and a possible username violation even. Goes around adding {{fact}} to articles, even dating the additions (I don't even remember to do that, and I've been on WP two years!). Then they oppose my RfA. Sounds an awful lot like a sockpuppet of a banned editor, though I don't know exactly who matches Republic's MO. Can an experienced admin check up on the situation? —Crazytales  13:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey, they are even dating the fact tag! That is obviously a WP:SPA, but I don't think they are disruptive by themselves (yet?). I'd suggest keeping an eye on him to see if an agenda appears. -- lucasbfr 13:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Gotta be someone who's been here before, and obviously hitting "Random article" and added the fact tags. The only sock I can recall with a similar M.O. was User:MsHyde (a sock of the banned User:Cindery), who added unreferenced tags to a few hundred random articles to build up her first 300 edits or so. But I think we'll have to wait and see. MastCell 15:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocked by Ryúlông per WP:HARASS. —Crazytales  01:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I declined the unblock due to the suspicious behaviour, but I may have been wrong. The user showed me where they first found the obscure tag I mention in my unblock decline that so raised my warning bells. The tag was added a long while ago by another user. A couple of users have expressed concern about the block. I myself am a bit suspicious and wary of the user. However, in the absence of solid evidence that this user is the sockpuppet of another specific user, or that the user's intention is to disrupt Misplaced Pages or harass its users, our principles encourage us to assume good faith. An indefinite block seems a bit out of place without a demonstrated need for it. Indef blocks are generally meant for users who have repeatedly demonstrated an inability to work productively in this environment, not first warnings. Just some thoughts. Vassyana 12:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I made the following comment to the user on IRC - "Well, I don't know if you're telling the truth or trolling. But Misplaced Pages policies as well as common sense would seem to indicate that in the absence of clear evidence for the latter, the former should be assumed". I think this sums up my views, it's possible that the user is trolling, however I think he should be unblocked in the interests of Assuming Good Faith. It's trivial to block the user again if he is a troll, yet we could lose a potentially valuable contributer to wikipedia if he remains blocked. --Darksun 13:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

This is obviously a sockpuppet. Ask them to get over it and get another account; if they feel like editing constructively. — Nearly Headless Nick 13:57, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That's a fair bit of nonsense. Being a sockpuppet is not a reason in and of itself for a block, especially an indefinite one. Also, it's more than a bit ridiculous to say we should tell them "to get over it and get another account" when their indef block includes (account creation blocked). Vassyana 16:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

While I agree he's a sockpuppet/new account of an other user (he know the procedures much more than most users), I don't really see the harassment. In my views his behavior is not really against WP:SOCK, since he did not disrupt a process or seem to have /voted somewhere. Personally I'd assume good faith, unblock and keep an eye on him; but for now blocking him is more a preemptive strike than anything else. As a principle I never revert an admin decision without consensus to do so, so it's your call. -- lucasbfr 16:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the user made a single !vote, which was the basis for the block. Vassyana 17:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that there was nothing wrong with voting as long as the user votes once; i.e. not with both accounts. hbdragon88 18:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The block was made, I believe, because Ryulong viewed the !vote as harassment, as noted above. Vassyana 18:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I blocked because I saw the !vote. There should very likely be a checkuser in this situation to see if the individual was vote stacking.—Řÿūłóñģ (竜龍) 20:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The above is a good example of poisoning the well. If you want to request the checkuser, go ahead, but would you agree to unblock if nothing turns up? Given what the user appears to have learned, I'm not sure what this block is preventing. Gracenotes § 02:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Due to the lack of evidence connecting the user to a banned/blocked account and no proof that this user is a puppet of an abusive sock, I cannot support an indefinite ban. Additionally, it seems as though consensus indicates that the user should be unblocked under good faith. I have notified Crazytales here and Ryulong here that I am willing to unblock under these circumstances. Barring any serious objections and/or further evidence, I will unblock the user after 24 hours to allow time for responses. Vassyana 07:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I support the unblock. In fact, I'd support an unblock right now. The user quoted from RFA: "Any Wikipedian with an account is welcome to comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections" Considering this block, the user is correct in saying that this is obviously not true in practice. Apparently, we have some intangible suffrage level of "real" looking edits before a user can vote without being banned. I can't believe that this is being considered harrassment. It's a complete misapplication of blocking policy and disregard of assuming good faith. -- Renesis (talk) 21:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Iwazaki

• Iwazaki (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks)

After an editor exposed my real identity in an ANI through an error I made in a sandbox, I have been harassed number of times with that information ever since. I have not dealt with incident of exposure of my real identity when I had made all efforts to conceal it including blanking the Sanbox number of times yet. That decision I am still grapling with but the harrasement is interfering in my ability to contribute to wikipedia.

• Incident 1,
• Incident 2,
• Incident 3
• incident 4 Thanks Taprobanus 23:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  

Iwazaki (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks) revealed at a AFD discussion, the subject is adamant LTTE supporter based on his edits in wikipedia and endangered his life.Madrass Express 03:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The harrassment of Taprobanus is unacceptable, however anyone can find out Rajkumar Kanagasingam.Bakaman 03:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Technically User:Blnguyen didn't reveal the identity of Taprobanus. In circa 2006 December User:Taprobanus (Then User:RaveenS) posted the essay which Blnguyen found in the User:Taprobanus/Sandbox on his userpage. Few days after that the page was deleted. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ 14:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

However, Iwazaki's action of stocking and harassing a wikipedian is wrong. Especially when he puts on the "totally disputed" tags on articles that has been edited by User:Taprobanus without a proper reason. How can we expect Taprobanus to contribute to wikipedia if his work is going to be torn apart because of his real identity. Proper steps needs to be taken to help fellow wikipedian to make him edit comfortably Watchdogb 14:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to comment on the stalking issue right now but this identity reveling issue is totally false allegation as I see. I too like to recommend to have an Oversight regarding this but I strongly object for the scolding on others for the totally unwanted self identity declaring done by him self. It's true that Blnguyen went through the Special:Prefixindex on User:Taprobanus and found that on his Sandbox. But once that essay was on his userpage. So if Taprobanus reveled his identity then he should learn to live with it. Sorry to say that. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ 18:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

This complaint is not on the fact that he revealed his identity. Its rather about Iwazaki breaching WP:NPA, WP:Civil, WP:AGF and so on. It's about judging the editor and then assuming he is here to vandalize. Misplaced Pages clearly does not allow this. Some measures should be taken to stop said user from such offence. We all want to contribute to wikipedia without being stocked and abused for our real identity. Watchdogb 21:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I feel users should not raise the background,race,religion,sex etc while raising issues here on any account in particular in Talk or Discussion pages and discussion should be confined to the topic ,I feel that is getting to personal and if he is stalking that is totally unacceptable and I feel no user should stalk others.One can watch pages no issues with that but stalking is totally unacceptable and violation of WP:NPA, WP:Civil, WP:AGF.Harlowraman 21:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought this was Administrators Notice Board of Incidents (ANI), :((( looks like no one wants to touch a hot potato. That’s all right, any way I have my two cents, based on the adamant protection of User:Blnguyen reveals to me that the poor chap was set up, i.e he was given the information by those who had interacted with me in the past. But this notice is not about Blnguyen’s actions. This is about the harassment. Thanks Taprobanus 12:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Impersonating another user and religious attacks

Fyslee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has taken text I wrote on one talk page and posted it on another talk page(midway down the mixed edit), effectively amplifying an already heated discussion. He then proceeded to have a heated conversation against this post I never made. He has included my signature and the date. It appears to other users as if I posted the information myself. His behaviour in the last 24 hours on the talk page appears to be purely in the name of escalating an already volitile situation. ॐ Metta Bubble 01:34, 23 June 2007 (UTC) Is there anything that can be done about this? I really feel he's trying to escalate a bad situation beyond a tenable discussion. ॐ Metta Bubble 07:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

My response to this totally false and misleading charge is coming... We're dealing with blockable and bannable offenses here by a user who refuses to accomodate BLP and NPR concerns from several users (including myself) regarding Metta Bubble's behavior. If necessary I will take this to the BLP Noticeboard and try to get Metta Bubble sitebanned for gross impropriety. No need to waste time on a ArbCom RfArb, when any admin can simply make a block or ban. There are other users who will back up this effort. -- Fyslee/talk 07:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"My response to this totally false and misleading charge is coming..." The diffs I posted above speak for themselves. What possible legitimate reason could you have for posting my comments and signature to another page? How would you like it if I went around posting your signature to things?

Your content issues do not warrant admin intervention. ॐ Metta Bubble 08:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand. It is your behavioral issues that may require blocking or banning. I never attached your signature to anything. I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all) and my replies (thus preserving the context). You start out here by making it sound like I forged something and then added your signature to make it look like something you had written:

• "... this post I never made. He has included my signature and the date. It appears to other users as if I posted the information myself."

You did post that information yourself on my talk page. I only moved it in context. They are your words and signature and time. Don't try to make it sound otherwise. I would never "post(ing) your signature to things" you had not written, and I would not take them out of context and add them to another discussion of another subject. I was only keeping the discussion on the same page, especially since the context also involved other users and your accusations against them. As my response below explains, I am prepared to drop this matter if you don't restore you personal attacks and BLP violation. Otherwise I will go higher up and have a very strong case, since a previous editor who made the same false charges got banned, partially for showing intention (without even doing it) to out another user. That was the last straw after they had already repeatedly publicized private information about myself and made false and unproven COI allegations. You have already outed AvB, but since you may not have understood the seriousness of what you were doing, AvB is being very generous. If you heed his request and don't go there again you may be spared this time. -- Fyslee/talk 09:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't believe you openly admit it and still don't see how it's wrong. Can someone please explain how Fyslees actions (in his own words "I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all) ") are inappropriate. I'd truly appreciate this. I'm really sick of this user harassing me and I thinks it's gonna get ugly if someone doesn't set him straight on the appropriateness of copy-and-pasting other users signatures. ॐ Metta Bubble 23:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Response to false charges and misuse of this board

I see that Metta Bubble has continued her disruptions, personal attacks, and BLP violations against myself and User:AvB at the Talk:Stephen_Barrett page, and has now escalated the matter by making false charges here. This false charge concerns ONE word which Metta Bubble wrote about me, and which I refactored to a more accurate word (which makes Metta Bubble look more charitable!), and then noted why I did it. The word was a repetition of a false charge from a RfArb. (That RfArb resulted in a banning of my accuser.) That charge was never proven and a repetition is simply a gross BLP violation and personal attack against myself. Making COI charges is a serious matter. Rather than take the matter to the BLP Noticeboard, I simply changed it and explained why, since I saw "no need to make waves." Metta Bubble decided to escalate the matter and reverted it (restoring BLP violations is a blockable offense, IIRC, while deleting such isn't even covered by 3rr) and deleted my explanation. Metta Bubble then took the discussion to my talk page, which I felt was problematic as it split the discussion, removing it from the relevant spot, which also involved other editors. I therefore copied very precisely and carefully (no "impersonation" at all, so she is deceiving this board) Metta Bubble's ensuing comments (they were indeed her comments!) and my own replies and placed them in the existing thread where they belonged, so others would know what was going on. Otherwise it would not be understandable. I also wished other editors to help me keep the BLP violation out of Misplaced Pages, and I made such a request.

She has also vandalized MY heading and is making a big issue out of it with another user (even claiming it was her heading).

Now she is calling me a vandal here (by wikilinking my name to "vandal"). She is getting more and more agitated and is attacking other users as well. Please get her to calm down and just leave the more accurate "POV" instead of the false "conflict" (COI) word in place. That will settle the matter for me.

In the meantime I will continue to remove the BLP violation against me in accordance with the requirement ("must") for any Misplaced Pages editor to do so if it pops up again. As of the time of this diff, the state of this word matter is acceptable to me.

These edit histories tell part of the story:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Stephen_Barrett&limit=500&action=history
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Metta_Bubble
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Fyslee
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Avb

-- Fyslee/talk 09:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Fyslee considers it a BLP violation that it's my opinion his edits reveal a conflict of interest on the article. ॐ Metta Bubble 23:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for Admin comment

• Why has this user been allowed to get away with impersonating me? Have I brought this to the wrong page? ॐ Metta Bubble 00:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Both of you summarize your complaints in 100 words or less after my comment. Right now, this is an argument between the two of you that has spilled over onto this board. There is nothing we administrators can do without knowing what the hell is going on.—Řÿūłóñģ (竜龍) 00:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• Fyslee (talk · contribs) copied my user post to an article talkspace (replying, inserting my message, then making a religious attack). He admits his behaviour here, stating "I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all)." He also deleted my posting about his Arbcom identified conflict of interest, claiming it is a BLP violation. I respected his refactoring though he was already cautioned. Some days later he continues to post religious attacks on me. I see his behaviour as wilfully inciting hostilities. I take impersonation and religious attacks to be critical community issues. ॐ Metta Bubble 07:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Thirdy party comments

• Although not a party to this specific conflict, it is a bit of a spin-off of a conflict between Metta Bubble and me and I am mentioned above. Ryulong, if I can help, please let me know. I am still considering whether or not to ask an admin to step in and explain to Metta that "outing" and damaging another editor's real-life identity are blockable, sometimes bannable offenses. Apparently they do not accept this from me or other editors who have tried. Thanks. AvB ÷ talk 07:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• Avb (talk · contribs) has a conflict with me and seems to be the reason his friend Fyslee (talk · contribs) started attacking me. I haven't outed anybody and never posted information beyond what is already public on wikipedia. If these users want to pursue their accusations I'm happy to answer with diffs to refute any and all claims. However, I see this behaviour as tag-team filibustering. I can't imagine any forthcoming context for justifying impersonation and religious attacks on me. ॐ Metta Bubble 12:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Legal threat

Is this blockable? Corvus cornix 06:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

No, just lame. Riana (talk) 06:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of which, this user is a minor revealing a great deal of personal information about himself on his User page. Corvus cornix 06:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of those restrictions on minors revealing personal information ever became policy.--Chaser - T 06:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

(ec) It's totally MySpace-y & is userbox hell. Dunno if the personal info aspect warrants it, though. I'd love to delete it on the grounds of aesthetic offence, however ... - Alison ☺ 07:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

No, not policy. Just common sense. Riana (talk) 07:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Protecting children's privacy says Reasonable efforts to discourage children from disclosing identifying personal information are appropriate and Users who appear to be children editing in good faith who disclose identifying personal information may be appropriately counseled. Deletion and oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information.. Corvus cornix 07:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"... in appropriate cases ..." - define "appropriate". In this case, the fact that the guy reveals his full name concerns me here, but everything else seems reasonable at a glance - Alison ☺ 07:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The city he lives in and the school he goes to? Corvus cornix 07:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Ummm - I'm deleting that - Alison ☺ 07:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. ☺ Corvus cornix 07:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Userpage deleted. We have to have some limits. Riana (talk) 07:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it is blockable, technically, although a block probably isn't really necessary given the implausibility involved. He appears to be threatening to have his mom sue wikipedia for not removing that image. That would be a legal threat, albeit a very lame one... we could ask him to clarify, though, if it isn't clear. --Aquillion 07:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I have cooled down that dispute before this thread started. And the "legal threats" were just grasping at straws, so just dismiss them as empty talk, at least for now. —Kurykh 07:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I suppose this might be considered another legal threat/rant: . bibliomaniac15 17:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

And I thought recruiting an admin into my discussion with User:Hornetman16 would defuse things... seems that his objections to the photo is not founded in anything other than an intense desire to have it removed. Flyguy649_contribs 18:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

About his userpage? He's just gone up the foodchain a bit Flyguy649_contribs 18:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Which I would imagine wont do him much good at all, I left a link to his talk page so if Jimbo really wants to he can get an explanantion there, SqueakBox 18:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The only method of getting him into constructive conversation was to appeal to his religious beliefs, which was laid out quite blatantly on his user page. Unorthodox, yes, but if it works, hey, what the heck. —Kurykh 18:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Image removed under the biographies of living persons policy

Without expressing an opinion either way as to the existence of this image on Misplaced Pages per se, I have removed it from one of the articles in which it was being used, under our Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons policy. Its use in that article was an entirely gratuitous publicization, that added no information to the article, of a living person who is not a public figure and who can neither defend xyr own rights or grant consent, and thus unacceptable. See Talk:Nackt Radtour#Image removed. Please note that any attempt to edit war or to re-include this image without making a strong and compelling case beforehand that these specific children need to be personally identified in an encyclopaedia article about a bicycle race will lead to loss of editing privileges. Uncle G 13:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• I see mention of OTRS on the description page, are we sure that the naked man has not granted consent? Viridae 13:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
  • The owner of the website on which it was displayed claims copyright and has granted GFDL rights. The child in the photograph has not consented and probably could not. --Tony Sidaway 13:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
    • There's no "probably" about it, Tony. That kid can't be more than three years old--that's too young to give consent in ANY country. I do have to wonder, though ... the name of the child wasn't included. If it was, then that would be totally inappropriate. But is merely including a picture of a child the same as identifying her (and it definitely looks like a girl)? Just wondering for future reference ... Blueboy96 16:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
      • In most countries, the legal guardian (presumably one of the parents, possibly the very person holding up the child in the picture) could have given consent which would make the matter perfectly legal. However, whether this particular picture enhances the article in any way (given the other pictures), especially given that our society has issues with displaying images of nude children, is a totally legitimate and relevant question.--Ramdrake 16:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
        • Hmmm, I can understand that perspective--especially since no race action was portrayed, or it wasn't clear that the guy holding her was the winner of the race. On those grounds, the picture should have been removed. But it's still not clear (to me, anyway) whether the girl was identified. I'm a journalist by training, and I agree it is totally inappropriate to identify a minor without the parent's permission. Seems a bit too broad to suggest that merely including a picture on a high-traffic Web site would be considered identification. I just want to make sure we're not setting a bad future precedent.Blueboy96 16:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
          • IMHO, that's a distinct possibility. That's why I'd drop the WP:BLP pretense (which to me doesn't apply too well), and just say that the merits of adding this particular picture to the articles are doubtful, considering the possible controversial nature of the contents (depicting a nude chld). Purely subjective, but if there's consensus behind it, I'd say it becomes fully justified. Otherwise, if we accept that WP:BLP applies because the child itself couldn't be old enough to consent, we'd need to remove all pictures of children belowe the age of, say 7 years old from Wikpedia, which would be counter-productive.--Ramdrake 16:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
            • My thoughts exactly. I may be a pentecostal/charismatic Christian (though somewhat more liberal than the guy leading the charge for that picture to be spiked from WP entirely), but I'm no prude. I realize that per Jimbo, we seem to have adopted a very broad interpretation of BLP, but this is carrying it too far. That said, the picture should stay out of that article--it's not clear whether the guy holding her won the race, and portraying nude children in a nongermane manner is unencyclopedic. Blueboy96 17:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
            • Indeed if it doesnt go in Child nudity it shouldnt go anywhere, and if it isnt linked to any articles it should be deleted, SqueakBox 17:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• I have moved the image to Commons. And I'd like to point out the three IfDs this image has gone through. There is plenty of consensus to keep the image. Acting unilaterally otherwise goes against the community will. I believe that counts as the strong and compelling evidence Uncle G asked for. -N 17:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Indeed, then it shouldn't be deleted (nor was I suggesting that it be). The only thing I was suggesting was that the image's place in the article should be judged independently from the WP:BLP standard, which I don't feel applies here. It might be useful in an article on family nudism or somesuch. But putting in a picture of a nude child to point out that their presence in this particular event is rare - is it just me, or is it counter-illustrative?--Ramdrake 18:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Well, as I pointed out on the article's talk page, most of the keep consensus was based on the image being in that article. It's a nude bike race, those are pictures from the race. Europe is incredibly lax on public nudity, even of children. If pictures from a nude bike race don't belong in the article on the nude bike race then something's wrong. Of course it could also be well-placed in other articles. -N 19:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Well, I would have considered it be kept in the article, but for two reasons: 1)the article (which isn't that long) already has several pictures of the racers and 2)the caption of the image said children are rarely seen at that event, which means the image is atypical rather than really illustrative of the event. Under these circumstances, I would question its inclusion.--Ramdrake 20:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
        • Well, I've moved it to Commons. I'm perfectly content with that as a solution in the meantime, and waiting for the uploader to return to Misplaced Pages and see what they want to do. -N 20:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
  • It is nothing of the sort, as already explained. As yet, no strong and compelling evidence has been presented that this image need be used anywhere in the entire encyclopaedia.

    The Misplaced Pages:Biography of living persons policy most definitely does apply here. I find it dismaying that editors, including especially those who profess to be journalists, are not thinking of the consequences of their actions, including the fact that they will result in a living person, who had no choice in once being photographed naked as a child, being labelled in the future as they grow up by friends, schoolchildren, employers, and complete strangers who recognize xem from xyr picture as "that naked little child in the encyclopaedia".

    This is why journalists have editors. I suggest that Blueboy96 run the idea past xyr editor of choosing between two pictures to illustrate a published print article about a bicycling event: one that contains solely consenting adults capable of giving consent, making their own choices, and defending themselves, and one that contains a child in a pose that can cause that child embarrassment and distress in the future as xe grows up. I expect that Blueboy96's editor, if xe is competent, will have strong words to say on the subject, and explain to Blueboy96 that conventional journalism ethics is to do no harm in such cases. If xyr editor is not competent, there are plenty of discussions of journalism ethics around, as well as plenty of explicit codes of journalistic conduct, that will explain what one has to think about with regard to pictures of identifiable children.

    As an alternative, consider how you would each react to embarrassing and distressing photographs of yourselves as children being used in an encyclopaedia as you grow up. We are not constructing private photo albums of baby photos here. We are constructing a public encyclopaedia for the whole world's use. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopaedia. Uncle G 22:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

    • I'm afraid you're wrong on all counts: three IfD against this image have all resulted in the image being kept, as per Misplaced Pages consensus. This is as strong and as compelling as evidence can get on WP, barring direct intervention from Jimbo Wales. Your WP:BLP argument would hold water if the child was identified and/or readily identifiable. Neither applies: the child isn't identified, and the picture of the face is taken in such a way as to make formal recognition very difficult, if not almost impossible. It's just a casual image of a naked child, about as anonymous and unprovocative as can be. The argument about the child not being able to make its own choice is also moot: if a legal guardian has consented to the picture, that counts just as if the child him or herself had accepted being photographed. None of these arguments are appropriate to remove this picture from the article.--Ramdrake 22:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Come to think of it also, I fail to see how this would be any more traumatic than say, your mother showing pictures of you as child, naked in the bathtub, the first time you bring a girlfriend over to dinner to meet your parents. Sure, it's embarrassing, but it's far from being the life-long trauma you seem to depict.--Ramdrake 00:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

User page as possible attack page

What is the policy or usual method of acting when one encounters a user page that may be genuine, but looks to me more like an attackpage? I mean something like User:Robthenerd1990, which is possibly not written by this Rob Boot but by e.g. a school "friend" (I can't imagine someone saying about himself "Hi I'm a Christian nerd and a nazi). Warn? Blank? Block? Leave alone? Fram 16:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• There is a previous account User:RobtheGate, who started the article Littlemoss High School which this "Rob" coincidentally says he also attended (and is the newer account's only mainspace edit). I'd say that it's an attack page. EliminatorJR 17:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Robthenerd1990 19:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)Its not an 'attackpage' and the fact that you consider it such makes you appear to be intolerant of the far-right, i was also 'robthegate' but i lost the password a few days after creating the account (i didn't give an email address for it so i couldn't get my password emailed) Why would i cover up my political or religious beliefs? I am openly a National Socialist and have been for a couple of years, i don't go shouting it but most people guess and if they ask ill tell them. Most Neo-Nazis are unlikely to cover up what they think unless they are trying to sabotage a red or anti site. I started the 'littlemoss' site as 'robthegate' and i rarely see the need to update a page and if i do it usually gets stopped even if i provide factual evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robthenerd1990 (talk • contribs)

Ahh, an accusation of intolerance from a devotee of Adolf Hitler whose avocation is making "morality based complaints involving male and female relationships amongst his peers." Mind if I go ahead and tag the two accounts as related? MastCell 20:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Repeated personnal attacks and vandalism by User:132.211.195.38

In Talk:Barbara Kay controversy, Talk:Montreal-style bagel, User talk:Boffob. Notice his edits to the main articles, repeatedly reverting to older versions by User:Lance6968, just like anonymous similar IP's such as 132.211.195.82, 132.206.58.39, 132.211.195.57 and 132.211.195.140 (and possibly others) have done in the past. Some of those IP's were blocked before for this kind of behavior.--Boffob 22:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I have opened a case of suspected sockpuppetry: Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Lance6968. Victoriagirl 17:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles fair use review

I needed an admin to review the status of this article to see if it violates fair use. I noticed that it had a quite a bit of audio samples on it, to be exact, 25 of them. Under our fair use policy, wouldn't that contradict the fact we should have minimal use? — Moe ε 23:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I acknowledge I am biased (ex WikiProject The Beatles) but are you aware how much influence the Beatles have on Western 20th Century culture? 25 samples? Which ones did they have to leave out? LessHeard vanU 00:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem is more that they aren't discussed than that they're being overused. --tjstrf talk 00:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

For an article that lost its FA status for, amongst other things, being too large? Another aspect of attempting to square the circle that is being castigated for being both too complex and too concise..? Oh, don't pay attention to me - I'm just an editor who opted for the more tranquil waters of NPA than attempt to satisfy the contrary demands of third parties on one of the most popular hits for WP (oh, and vandalism... what the individual FA gets in its day in the sun is what The Beatles gets every other day!) Look at it this way, would Einstien be questioned over the over-reliance of mathematical equations in the article? What Einstien was to physics then the Beatles were to Western popular culture... thus ends the rant! Anyhow, I've mentioned this at Talk:The Beatles - which might have been a good venue to commence this discussion. LessHeard vanU 01:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

That sure was a lot of senseless babbling to say, "I moved the conversation to Talk:The Beatles... — Moe ε 01:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

"That sure was a lot of senseless babbling..." Nope, that was a rant - as indicated. LessHeard vanU 09:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Trademark violation?

This is a long shot, but is there any action to take regarding this? Background information: about a week ago, Istarlive (talk · contribs) created articles like Istarlive and IStarLive which were A7/G11'd, and I username blocked the user. Today JamesterDude (talk · contribs) moved User:Istarlive to Istarlive and claims it is a trademark violation for "IStarLive" to be used to refer to a user. -SpuriousQ (talk) 00:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of the trademark issue (which legally is a non-starter), to prevent further spamming, I've removed the invalid redirect and salted User:Istarlive. AKRadecki 01:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I added Istarlive to protected titles, given its long history of creation/deletion. AKRadecki 01:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Considering that CheckUser shows that JamesterDude and Istarlive are the same person, this adds an extra layer of comedy. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Re-post about WP:POINT

Help, please Could someone review this post; these issues have not been resolved or even addressed. I have refrained from editing these pages, pending someone's intervention, and I don't want another edit war to start. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 03:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The post looks like a content dispute. Have you considered using the dispute resolution process? — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Carl, to be honest, I was not sure where to put this, as there are a large variety of disputes across more than one namespace, even. If you think it is wisest to post there, I will. Does anyone else have any suggestions? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 19:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocking User:Zaindy87 for policy violation

Pl. block User:Zaindy87 who has uploaded several images (which he himself admits to be fair use for copyrighted images) under the additional license tags of Creative Commons or GDFL. The upload page clearly mentions "Do not upload content with false license declarations. You will be blocked." He has exactly uploaded with false licenses, therefore pl. block him and delete the images. --Idleguy 04:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I see no need to block at this time (not that I could if I wanted to...). He seems to have stopped for the while, and probably understands the warning. If he does it again, you would be within reason to take it directly to WP:AIV (an unusual step, but it works). YechielMan 22:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

IP rolling troll continually attacking userpages

An IP troll has appeared on wikipedia and they are continually blanking user pages of random editors then switching IP when blocked starting the whole thing again? What do we do about this? Francisco Tevez 10:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Revert, block, ignore, hurl profanity in his direction privately, and wait for him to get bored. Cheers, Moreschi 10:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The range is a bit too broad for a range block. I am handing out userspace protections in return for lollies, please contact me. Riana (talk) 10:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocking his IP address for 20 minutes should be enough to make him need to switch his IP address - no need to give him more than that. Od Mishehu 11:01, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Problem Editor/Possible Vandal

Stefers08 (talk · contribs) made several uploads and edits to three of the four main Fantastic Four Heroes by using promotional images from the FF movies. Upon further review of his contribution history, either this guy is an obvious vandal that has slipped under the radar, or a seriously misguided editor. Activity suggests and leans towards Vandal. I checked most of his uploaded images, and the ones I saw had the {{Non-free currency}} tags on images that depict ficticious characters. Most of his activity has been "contained" in a 12 day period. --293.xx.xxx.xx 11:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

This is almost certainly a good-faith WP:NOOB who simply doesn't understand the image policy. Come on, everyone, raise your hand if you really had a solid understanding of image policy during your first month or 50 edits on the project. That's what I thought. So some of the images are already tagged, and the others could be listed at IFD. No harm, no foul. YechielMan 22:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Concern

WHat is this doing on wiki? Image:Immad.JPG - Kittybrewster (talk) 12:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Shit, when I reloaded the Incidents pagepage, that mugshot scared the crap outta me!! Anyhoo, try here for a start: Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion --293.xx.xxx.xx 12:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Volatility to Volatility (finance) move was done via copy/edit

Can someone with admin rights please take a look at Volatility (finance)? It was created from Volatility by a copy/edit rather than a proper page move. I've tried to correct this type of problem in the past myself only to be blocked by an admin with an itchy trigger finger. Thanks. Ronnotel 13:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Will take this one Done. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:UBX/Zionist

Tagged for speedy deletion under the brand-new CSD U4 ("polemic"). Anyone want to take this one? I'm seriously tempted to remove the tag and say take it to MfD, but... Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I feel I have no choice but to forward this to MFD, for one very simple reason. Userboxes of this nature have survived MFD in the past, and I can only support a speedy criterion if I believe that a formal debate would result in a near-unanimous deletion. I will make it a procedural nomination, and I will give full context. I hope that works for everyone. YechielMan 14:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I've tagged this and User:UBX/Capitalist on the grounds their opposites, Palestinian return and communism were recently speedied. Fully understand about your reasons for prefering a MfD. Addhoc 14:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Works for me, although I can't really say I'd have agreed with the above two being speedied either. Thanks for understanding. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

There's are active discussions on this & related deletions in several places simultaneously , (at least) WP:DRV, WP:CSD, WP:MfD .DGG 21:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Sesshomaru

im not sure if this is the right place to post this or not but this user keeps trying to say im a troll and a sock puppet. He is also telling others that I refuse to listen to him and hes giving me grief about my archive. He refuses to listen to reason and I was hoping a admin could talk to him. Thanks.TheManWhoLaughs 15:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The above user has been blocked indefinitely for sockpuppetry. Lord Sesshomaru

User: Darkcurrent recidivism with insulting edit summaries

I hope I've found the right place to post this; sorry if I haven't. User: Darkcurrent recently made a small, unsourced edit to a page I watch, but then summarized it in a completely inappropriate way: diff. I am personally deeply offended by his language, and originally I was just going to ask him to stop on his talk page -- but then I noticed that he's been blocked for very similar behavior before: (links to user's contributions page). I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I'd suggest that the user be blocked again, as that seemed to teach him a lesson, at least for a little while before. Thanks. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 17:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

(Non admin comment) I see you left him a polite warning, that was definitely a step in the right direction. I'll keep an eye out and if he continues then you cna either follow up here or take it straight to AIV. All the best. The Sunshine Man 17:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I have to say that whatever point Darkcurrent was attempting to make was more than slightly compromised by his spelling "whole" without the w... Considering the epithet s/he used regarding editors, perhaps they had something else on their mind? LessHeard vanU 18:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

(Non admin comment) Also, the point is false. It's I'm in insurance, per . You'd have to go to the last page, if memory serves, because it's the final scene, but clearly, it's "I'm in insurance.".--Ispy1981 21:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Any chance this guy is User:Light current? Friday (talk) 21:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

That was my first thought, as Light current was banned in February and this account started full-time editing in March (only one edit before that) and Light current had a history of abusive edit summaries. But it seems to be two different people based on editing patterns and their comments. — Moe ε 22:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

(Non admin comment) User:Light current was better at spelling, and wasn't so heavy on the caps lock key. pablomismo_|\talk 22:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Steve Brookstein

The article Steve Brookstein has been edited by an anon claiming to be that person (see Talk:Steve Brookstein). This needs investigating given "how can Misplaced Pages be taken seriuosly when it allows vandalism and untruths be spread about people and presented as facts", but nobody has taken this through the official channels as far as I am aware. violet/riga (t) 17:29, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

He was legitamately complaining about a BLP violation on the talk page that would violate NPA as well. Could someone oversite it please now i've edited it off the talk page? 17:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The editor who added the section in question is 80.6.89.61 and here is the diff , that should help. 17:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the talk page and restored versions that did not contain that text. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism on Colors in Infoboxes

I would like to block the IP address 68.173.209.19 (talk · contribs), because he continues to change the colors on baseball players infoboxes, mostly Yankees players and changes them to lesser known teams they played for. I believe he changes them because he doesnt like the Yankees, and that is not a good reason to change the colors, I also believe it is the Ip address of Pascack (talk · contribs), considering they make nearly all the same edits, and I think he uses a couple of other IP address also. I have told him numerous times to stop but he doesnt listen--Yankees10 18:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)Yankees10

He offers the fact that the said player is in the hall of fame with those colors (i.e. Dave Winfield was with the Padres the most). What is your compelling reason for retaining the original colors? hbdragon88 18:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Well for players like Reggie Jackson, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk he has A's colors for Reggie when they should be Yankee, Mets Colors for Gary when they should be Expos, and Red Sox colors when they should be White Sox--Yankees10 18:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)Yankees10

(non admin) Those are all debatable, especially Fisk, who is most closely associated in the popular imagination with the Red Sox and wears a Red Sox cap on his Hall plaque. I'd say that, in many cases, you're right, but there are others -- Jeff Nelson comes to mind -- in which he's done the right thing. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 20:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree Nelson signed with the YANKEES TO RETIRE AS A YANKEE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.16.153 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Possible contender for the Screaming WGAS award here. No administrative action is called for here; work it out somewhere else. --jpgordon 21:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

'Wood Green Animal Shelter'? HalfShadow 21:24, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Jeff Nelson actually played three separate stints for the Seattle Mariners and played more years in Seattle. However, I agree that he is likely better known as a Yankee. However, Reggie Jackson played many more years in Oakland and won more titles in Oakland. Since his photo is already shown as a Yankee, I think it would be most fair to show Oakland colors, so that both teams are represented. However, I have never used profanity or foul language in the descriptions when making edits, a practice that Yankees10 has done consistently. I think this is much worse than showing Jeff Nelson as a Mariner, or Reggie Jackson as an Oakland A - both representations that are not beyond reality. I will give him Nelson as a Yankee but Reggie should be shown with Oakland colors since he played many more years there. Regarding Carlton Fisk, he actually is in the Hall with Boston colors, not White Sox, but I think he is most remembered as a Red Sox due to the famous World Series HR in 1975, and I believe the general consensus would agree. Gary Carter is wearing an Expos in the Hall but it was his request to wear a Mets cap and he was overruled because the Hall wanted an Expos hat represented before the organization moved to Washington. He is most remembered for his high-profile championship years with the Mets in the 1980's and he has also spent the better part of the past 15 years working in the Mets organization as an instructor and minor league manager. Carter clearly identifies himself most as a Met.Pascack 21:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Thedeadmanandphenom

Having some problems with Thedeadmanandphenom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has been leaving profane, incivil and occasionally threatening (though not realistically threatening, more in the 'I hope you die!' type commentia range) on the page of Darrenhusted. I think he needs a time out. Could someone put him in the corner for a a couple hours? --Thespian 18:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

In the past he has disrupted pages and blanked sourced material , and after having numerous warnings for editors other than myself he has now decided to attack me personally for PROD-ding an article he created , . I don't know if he is here to constructively edit, and I have tried to assume good faith, even tidying up the article he created but I think that some kind of block (may be for 12 hours) may be needed to try to reign him in. Any help on this matter would be appreciated. Darrenhusted 18:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:BullyDale

BullyDale (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is another likely sockpuppet of User:Danny Daniel that should be blocked. The user's contributions fit the pattern of previous Danny Daniel sockpuppets (see User:Squirepants101/Danny Daniel for more info). The username is in CamelCase. He/she even created a hoax sequel called The Big Field Trip 2: When World's Collide (a parody of The Jimmy Timmy Power Hour 2: When Nerds Collide. User:LuisPlank2X4 created similar pages which are dubbed The Inuyasha Jake Power Hour. User:68.37.205.18 was a suspected proxy of that user, which turned out to be a confirmed Danny Daniel sock). Pants 20:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, block BullyPoop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Pants 20:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Update, BullyPoop has been blocked indef by User:Naconkantari for having an inappropiate username. BullyDale has not been blocked yet. Pants 01:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Folken de Fanel and Sandpiper

I was't quite sure what to do about this so i thought i'd better put it on here. These two users, User:Folken de Fanel, and User:Sandpiper, are engaged in edit warring over a number of harry potter related articles such as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Horcrux, R.A.B., Kreacher etc, and neither seems to be able to resolve an issue over article content, instead, the same arguments keep being repeated over and over, if another user becomes involved, like i did, still no consensus or compromise is reached, the user just gets sucked in too. Judging from their contributions, it seems that all they do is revert the other ones edits. Can anything be done about this, or will we just have to wait for the book to come out and settle all the debates.--Jac16888 20:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Block requested

Use Yankees10 (talk · contribs) has persistently used profanity in the discussion section in editing history. Argument in question is the team colors on Reggie Jackson's infobox - Oakland vs. Yankees. This argument can go in either way, but he should not be using such language on a public forum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pascack (talk • contribs) 21:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Take your feud somewhere else, please... HalfShadow 21:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Massive 3RR'ing on Jeff Nelson (baseball player) for the past two days. Can an admin just block Yankee10 now, or will I have to file a 3RR report? hbdragon88 21:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I admit I am over using profanity but you are changing everything because you clearly dont like the Yankees--Yankees10 22:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)Yankees10

Personal Attacks & Incivility

User:ThuranX started making personal attacks on me the other day, and has not relented, despite my efforts to resolve the issue politely and, in the end, somewhat ineffectively. I have had very little in the way of interaction with him, and am very surprised by the rage and vitriol I am seeing in his recent edits to and about me.
The conversation began over some placement of citation tags in the Catwoman, wherein ThuranX and another user, Duhman were edit-warring and generally being uncivil to each other. I suggested that they might want to take a step back for a bit, and they both went nuts. I replied to each of them on their talk pages. Duhman proved pretty much a lost cause, but I had enough respect for Thuran to try and help square things away, as evidenced here and here (both of the short sections are full of personal attacks). He took my questioning of his edits as a personal attack, and became a lot more uncivil. I wasn't expecting this and responded a bit hotly, though nowhere near as hotly as what continued. I retracted my statements, hoping this would calm matters down. It didn't, and the personal attacks just kept coming:
In the Catwoman article:

• 1
• 2
• 3

In another editor's talk page:

• 4 (including my response to the initial attack, which I self-reverted, wanting the attacks to simply stop)
• 5

His own talk page had more personal attacks.

The damnable thing is that, while I know he is feeling burnt out and is not at all polite with many, many others (as evidenced by a look at just the edit history of his own Talk page). I actually respected the guy - until he decided to target me. I am not sure how to proceed, as he seems to be continuing the uncivil stuff despite my politely trying to defuse matters, or not responding at all. I mean, I am avoiding the guy, but he just keeps making comments. Can someone lend a hand? - Arcayne () 18:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

He's not assuming good faith on your part, but good faith has its limits and he might have reached his. Here he explains himself:

You're a troll. You're deliberately disrupting pages with citation demands for every line and section to make a point. What that point is, I don't care. but it's tiring, childish, and irritating. If you feel that every single thing needs citation, you go find it. I found more than enough, given that this all started with you being nosey. ThuranX 17:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've not reviewed your dispute in detail, but if ThuranX is seeing this correctly, he might be correct regarding the citations (though presumably has mistaken your intentions). You only need to place <ref/> tags on facts that are likely to be questioned. –Gunslinger47 19:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that wasn't the issue prompting the complaint. I was addressing the personal attacks and incivility that accompanied the edits, which another editor also addressed with him (to no avail). Maybe he was all upset about the User:H issue, and it spilled over, but I am not the only person he has blown up at or made personal attacks at. When a user acts in this way, they usually get blocke for a period of time, not as punishment, necessarily, but instead to both protect the project as well as giving the person being complained about some perspective. I am not sure I understand the delay in acting here. -Arcayne () 18:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

This complaint was perhaps accidentally archived without resolution. I am putting it back into queue, because people shouldn't be free to be a dick. - Arcayne () 21:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Uhh, I'll warn him to keep his cool but I pretty much agree with him in that you're being completely zealous with the whole citation thing... that's about all I'm willing to do though. Lay off asking for citation for facts that probably wouldn't challenged per policy. Sasquatch t|c 04:30, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Admin intervention for User:pwok

On the Talk:Matt Sanchez page, User:pwok, now editing under his IP address of User:71.231.140.80, has continually (one might even say continuously) attacked editors who do not agree with his interpretation of how to edit the (contentious) article on Matt Sanchez. Pwok/71.231 is an SPA, as his user logs show. He has been blocked three times already for incivility (3 hours, 10 days, and 7 days), and during his blocks he has used his talk page (which he blanked yesterday) to rain invective upon Sanchez, other editors, the admins who have blocked him, and Misplaced Pages itself. Then, of course, there is this attack on Misplaced Pages, at a site he has created, which is solely dedicated to smearing Sanchez. (Suggests more than a bit of a Conflict of Interest.) He apparently has some sort of vendetta against Sanchez, and there have been allegations of off-wiki drama between the two of them, but his activity here (and his personal attacks against User:Elonka and User:WjBscribe are simply out of line. During his last involuntary wikibreak, the hostility level on that talk page dropped considerably. I would suggest some sort of intervention, and am willing to take this to the next level if necessary to block a tendentious and abusive editor from Misplaced Pages. Horologium t-c 21:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The IP address has been blocked by Jayjg for a month (link) and its talkpage has been protected following the subsequent posting of attacks and abuse. Given this and the receipt of abusive emails from Pwok, I have now blocked that account indefinitely (and disabled the "E-mail this user" feature from that account in order to prevent further attacks on editors he has been in conflict with). WjBscribe 02:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Help with non-free images from Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Hello! Project

This project is currently endorsing the upload of unfree images of living people. I don't have the guts to engage in talk, as I have already been called a Nazi (two times image my talk page and in a message delivered to several project participants ( ...)). Would someone step in?

The WikiProject Hello! Project covers articles about Japanese pop celebrities, and as such, is a magnet for replaceable non-free images of living people. Besides keeping an eye on its articles, I have added minor instructions to the project's page to help with the problem.

But, recently, the project's page has been changed to endorse the use of unfree images of living people. I don't think it's helpful to state "Free images sadly do not exist for H!P artists." in the project's instructions about the images.

It's a good thing to notice that the project also promotes the tagging of all images used in its articles. But its incentive to the upĺoad of images that are going to be deleted is not something desirable. --Abu badali 22:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Straight-up I see a violation of WP:CANVASS and implied ownership and incivility in the call to "protect" the project from "copyright nazis". hbdragon88 22:24, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I've left a nice essay on the main user's talk page and the talk page of the project.—Řÿūłóñģ (竜龍) 22:28, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

And they're not getting it. They're claiming that there are no free alternatives because their management company does not allow fans to bring cameras to the concerts.—Řÿūłóñģ (竜龍) 00:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Racist Personal Attacks

Please be aware that on the talk page for Joseph Smith Jr. the editor User:Storm Rider has taken to personally insulting another editor, myself, by using racial slurs damning all Indians. I will not contribute in an environment that is hostile or that insults my race and he has done both. I asked a question involving the possible racism of Joseph Smith as it might be something to make the article more accurate. It is true that most people of Smith's time were racist and if Smith was as well then as an importand leader that began a religous movement it should be noted, especially since books penned by Smith do contain racist material. I recieved some initial responses but I still felt the issue had not come to a proper decision. I was very conserned about some of the information provided in a link and I specifically asked if the information in the link was factually accurate. At that point Storm Rider, instead of answering the question, called me a hypocrite for even asking. Not only did he call me a hypocrite for even asking but he then proceeded to insult my race by using phrases like "blood thirsty Savages" to decribe all Indians and he insist on inserting information that had nothing to do with the topic at had, the possible racism of Joseph Smith Jr., by saying over and over again that all Indians are liers because they weren't the first people in America so they are all liers for saying it. I do not feel conforable continueing to edit in this type of atmosphere. I ask that this user be centured for these racist comments and not allowed to edit anymore. Should this not be something that Misplaced Pages is able to do even to someone that has launched this horrid type of personal attack at me then I feel it prudent to not edit Misplaced Pages anymore. Please let me know which one of us should go.--Billiot 22:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Well, a quick look says you're misrepresenting the situation. Storm Rider did not phrases like "blood thirsty Savages" to decribe all Indians; rather, he said, The various cultures of Native Americans ran from blood thirsty to peaceful...just like every other culture upon the earth. Slow down and read more carefully, and perhaps you'll have a better time here. --jpgordon 22:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I find this kind of talk from User:Storm Rider to be totally uncalled for:

The noble savage is a farce and to begin to attempt to say that Native Americans were the "first" residents of these lands is the stuff of fairy tales we tell to ensure that the injustice of "the man" is condemned. That first group or people has yet to be identified or known by history. However, current archeology would say that Native Americans may simply be transplants from Asia. Given that perspective the concept of "original" inhabitants loses its primacy and legitimacy.

Not only is it uncalled for, because it is incendiary, but it is probably incorrect. Current understanding is that Native Americans are likely the descendants of basically the first human beings to inhabit North and South America. See Recent single origin hypothesis. Bus stop 22:57, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, "probably incorrect". There are also hints of human activity before the current residents and of catastrophe. But "simply transplants from Asia" only makes sense if there is an alternative of humans appearing spontaneously in many places. They're most likely to have appeared where primates live. (SEWilco 04:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC))

Not so much a personal attack, but a violation of WP:TALK and WP:NOT. Can you please tell me which talk page this was posted on, and I will post a warning. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Posted warning in talk page. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:33, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

24.203.217.170, IP of an indefinitely blocked user

The user at the IP User:24.203.217.170 appears to have admitted to being a blocked user. I'm not totally au fait with the relevant policies, but would this be grounds for blocking the IP? VoluntarySlave 22:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User(s) blocked. - self-confessed sockery / personal attacks / revert-warring, etc, etc - Alison ☺ 23:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Centrx and my sigs

Centrx (talk · contribs)

User:Centrx is mass reverting my modifications of my own signatures which is explicitly allowed as per Misplaced Pages:Username policy#Changing your username. Centrx failed to convince Grutness that he has valid points. In addition a 3rd opinion was filed and was responded to, feel free to have a read of it.

Centrx is engaged in a revert war over my sigs on multiple pages including ones inside my userpsace. Centrx believes that I have a malicious intent for modifying my sig. I believe that also violates WP:AGF.

-- Cat 23:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The policy talks about removing personal information. It's not like you used to use your real name, so I see no way that you could call Cool Cat something personal and identifying. --(Review Me) R Contribs_@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 23:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I strongly desire to change my sig. Thats all the policy expects. -- Cat 23:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest you notice the writing on the wall, and catch on that repeatedly changing your sig on every page you've ever posted on is an obnoxious waste of time and resources. --tjstrf talk 23:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I do not think resources is an issue and its my time to waste. At least according to the devs I talked to. En.wiki receives several thousand edits per day. Centrx is wasting more of our resources by repetively revert waring over this. -- Cat 23:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Once again, here's an exact quote of policy: "If you feel strongly about personal information no longer being on visible pages on the site, you can edit these pages to remove your signature." The username "Cool Cat" does in no way, reveal your personal information, so there is no personal info for you to feel strongly about. Because of that, policy doesn't allow you to do what you're doing. --(Review Me) R Contribs_@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 23:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Lets say you are right for the sake of argument, there still is nothing prohibiting from fixing my sigs. I am allowed to change my sigs and even comments on non-archived talk pages by default. Although discouraged, I am even allowed to remove my comments altogether if I do so desire - especially in my userspace. -- Cat 23:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Is there a reason in changing your past sigs other than aesthetic effect? —Kurykh 23:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I am sorting my sigs by year. It is particularly helpful for me. I can explain additional reasons in private if you like. Though, I would like to add (no offense), I shouldn't really need a reason aside from "my strong desire". :) -- Cat 00:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Centrx did not say he believes you have a malicious intent for modifying your signature. Regardless, why is this topic back here? At least Centrx has been kind enough to keep this trivial matter off the AN and ANI. Seriously, why is this so darn important to you? (And, to Centrx as well, why is this so darn important?) It takes two to tango; one of you just stop already. -- tariqabjotu 23:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Why did you move your mediation committee page? Is that really necessary? And what was the purpose of blanking the origin page and re-adding the same content? Was that in an attempt to make moving the page back more difficult? (If that was your intent, that doesn't do much). -- tariqabjotu 00:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I am more than allowed to move old references to my former username. I did this before with my first RFA. I forgot about the mediation case till recently. Why should I even need to provide an explanation? The complaint is Centrx's mass revers btw. -- Cat 00:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

It's still rather pointless to continue to 1) remove references to your old name and 2) revert war over it when all it is, is your signature. Damn near everyone realizes that Cool Cat = White Cat at this point. Even if people didn't realize it by the signature, they could equally just check the history of any page you edited and it says White Cat now. — Moe ε 00:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I have protected the MedCom nomination from editing and moves. I think it's generally best if closed nominations not be edited in any way, and this includes their location. Daniel 07:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

This wouldn't have been an issue if the second involved party hadn't started reverting harmless changes. I think going back and editing your old sigs isn't really useful, but any argument against it (server load, disruption, etc) can be equally made against reverting edits to old sigs.

Anyhow, this isn't prohibited, and User:White Cat shouldn't have to justify themselves in re. this. It's a personal choice, not a community one, and there's no reason that a personal (albeit retroactive) aesthetic choice should be made by committee. —User:Adrian/zap2.js 2007-06-25 01:03Z

He's been warned about this, twice. Originally he had a bot doing the changes in mass. He is editing community talk pages, so it's not just up to him. -- Ned Scott 01:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but why oh why does anyone care what he does to his own sigs if he's not being incivil or disruptive or trying to hide who made the comments? (he's actually making it more clear who made the comments) Someguy1221 01:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Because he's repeatedly been disruptive about it, and repeatedly told not to do it. -- Ned Scott 01:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me for not being involved in the previous discussions concerning this, but....why has he been told not to do it? I am straining to rationalize the edit wars this is causing. Someguy1221 01:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe it's been opposed for a variety of reasons by different people. Personally I dislike it because, unless you actually are leaving Misplaced Pages and vanishing, you don't get to put your previous ID down the memory hole like this. --tjstrf talk 04:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Except that White Cat/Coolcat is clearly not trying to vanish, if you look at his userpage. He's actually making it easier for anyone reading old archives to find out the username currently being used by Coolcat, as well as still being able to see Coolcat's contribs (linked to right from White Cat's userpage). I still believe a mere redirect from his old userpage to his new one would be oh so much easier (I'm not finding it possible to comprehend why that wasn't done, looking through old discussions), other users have done that upon changing username. Someguy1221 04:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Just redirect all of the pointers to the old names into the new one and stop changing the sigs. This the second time I have seen this issue come up here since your name change and this is frankly getting me pissed off. Why are you making this hard on yourself White Cat; just make things easier so you can go back to editing. User:Zscout370 09:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Bosniak sentiment

The article Anti-Bosniak sentiment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) was recently deleted by Coredesat for reasons I don't understand: he claims it was a CSD R1 (widow redirect) but AFAIK there was a full article there. Anyway, Bosniak (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been complaining about this (in all the wrong places, such as Misplaced Pages talk:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard) and has just now reposted the article, presumably from an HTML copy, as it's not properly wikified. Naturally it doesn't preserve the author history, and is therefore a copyright violation. So…

1. Can an administrator check the deleted page history to see whether Coredesat deleted the article by mistake?
2. If the article was deleted by mistake, can an administrator please delete Bosniak's version and restore the original?
3. If the article was not deleted by mistake, can an administrator please speedy-delete Bosniak's version, warn him against reposting deleted content, and direct him to WP:DRV?

Thanks. —Psychonaut 23:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

There was never any full article there, far as I can see. Just a redirect. Note there was a bit of moving and shuffling of articles going on around then (and since) but what Coredesat deleted was just a redir - Alison ☺ 23:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Never mind; I see what the problem is. The page was moved elsewhere and then AfD'd. So in this case Bosniak is reposting deleted content. This is at least the second time he's done so; he was previously warned for this. This incident is particularly egregious because he's attacking an administrator who wasn't even involved in the deletion, User:Duja, claiming that Duja is responsible and has a conflict of interest. I suspect a block is in order (and it wouldn't be the first time). —Psychonaut 00:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Article deleted, it was a clear re-post of the old page at Anti-Bosniak attitude, which was deleted after AfD at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Anti-Bosniak sentiment (second nomination). Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The version I deleted was a broken redirect with no article history. The article was at Anti-Bosniak attitude, which I deleted after the AFD. --Coredesat 01:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Bosniak's behaviour

This incident was marked as resolved, but so far no one has addressed the behaviour of the user in question, who has

1. reposted a deleted article for the second time, after being warned the first time that this could lead to a block;
2. refused to avail himself of WP:DRV despite suggestions by two editors;
3. used numerous pages to accuse a completely uninvolved administrator (Duja) of engineering the deletion, accused Duja of having some unspecified conflict of interest, and forum-shopped to seek a remedy; and
4. continued to proclaim that Serbs and Croats own particular articles on Misplaced Pages and that due to institutional racism here Bosniaks are prevented from having "their" own articles, thereby implying that it's proper for Misplaced Pages articles to exist for polemic purposes.

Unfortunately this recent behaviour is simply the latest in a long string of personal attacks and willful disregard for consensus and policy. —Psychonaut 09:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, his behavior has been a problem that seriously needs to be addressed. For instance, I had to block him back in March due to personal attacks he made. His block log shows that his incivility has been consistent throughout his time here. Perhaps you might want to open up an RFC on his conduct.--Jersey Devil 10:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think an RFC is necessary or would be helpful. This isn't a content dispute; this is a user persistently attacking others as "racists" and flouting policy and consensus as if it doesn't apply to him. The behaviour has been going on for nearly a year, and has affected dozens of editors, many of whom have patiently tried to educate Bosniak about the rules. IMHO all that needs be done is enforce the existing rules to curb this behaviour; an RFC would only give Bosniak's irrational persecution complex yet another platform to spout its outrageous claims of Serbian infiltration. —Psychonaut 11:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Anon using two accounts to game 3RR?

Not sure if this is the right place, but... I suspect that 207.237.232.228 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and 69.112.18.229 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are the same person. Both have done little other than introduce the same controversial material into Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. They are different ISPs but both geolocate to the New York City metropolitan area (using http://www.ip2location.com/free.asp). Admittedly this is not the biggest issue facing the project at present. Nonetheless, it's frustrating to have to deal with stuff like this when trying to work on articles. Any suggestions for how to handle this kind of situation? Thanks - Raymond Arritt 01:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Reverted and sprotected. Naconkantari 01:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

(slaps own head...) I should have thought of WP:RFPP to begin with. Thanks for the help! Raymond Arritt 01:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Lsi john incivility

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

• Lsi john (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I regret having to open this case. In spite of my advice, and warnings, User:Lsi john has engaged in worsening incivility toward User:Durova. Lsi john uses words like "defamatory", "lying", "bad faith" and "character assassination". We need to stop this because it creates a hostile environment, and sets a bad example for other editors. My attempts at friendly persuasion have failed. Can any of you suggest a way forward? Jehochman 03:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Durova is a very experienced admin, and more than capable to respond directly to these issues. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• Ok, now that is an example of a very bad faith posting.

1. I have clearly stated that I do not want this to be discussed in a public setting here.
2. It is my understanding that a dispute with another editor cannot be resolved until that editor is made aware of the problem. Therefore, I posted to Durova's page to make her aware of the problem.

Per Jehochman's request here, I rephrased my posting to Durova and removed the wording that Jehochman objected to. And yet, rather than post my 'good faith version', he posted the diff to the original version here.

It took several edits to completely catch them all, but the final edit was here. PRIOR to Jehochman's post on AN/I.

Notice that Jehochman even Thanked me for making the changes here.

"::::You're welcome. You've still got the word "defamatory" in there. That's a lightning rod. Please refactor that comment one more time"-Jehochman

And refactor it I did.

1. Jehochman I did what you asked me to do.
2. By bringing this to a public forum for discussion, you are forcing me to discuss my personal life and you are causing people's attention to be focused on lies that have been said about me. I consider that to be harassment.

I have not been uncivil to Durova. She has lied about me and falsely accused me. I asked her to stop.

Jehochman this is an EXTREMELY personal issue for me and I have no desire to have it discussed here. Please redact this thread. Lsi john 04:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Violation of fair use

• Sefringle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Continues to reinsert huge quotes despite the fact that on the talk page of the article it has been noted that doing such is against fair use policy. Error1010 04:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Error1010 is an obvious sockpuppet of His_excellency (talk · contribs). A quick indef would be appreciated. - Merzbow 04:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Please don't troll and harass me. Whether or not I am not a sockpuppet remains to be seen but I would appreciate some attention to this matter. Error1010 04:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• Asked editors to summarize long quotes and move text to footnotes. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Nasty mess of SPAs at Omaha Steaks

See Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Omaha Steaks. Videmus Omnia 05:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Good work, but I think we can handle this over at WP:COIN. No need to cross post here. Jehochman 06:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Community ban violation

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Verdict (3rd)

User is currently contributing in the past half an hour or so, and continuing. Could this get a quick resolution? Sancho 06:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Besot.PNG

What exactly is this image? I am blind so I have no idea what it is. The reason I ask is that 68.122.0.3 and 67.188.45.126 have added the image without explanation to Cumhal, Sad Sack and Wooper, with some other nonsensical edits. The image was uploaded without a copyright tag. I'm wondering what it is and what should be done with it. Graham87 08:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a sprite comic. By the time you read this, I will have deleted it.—Řÿūłóñģ (竜龍) 08:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

OK thanks. Graham87 09:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

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