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Revision as of 04:31, 8 July 2007

re: From grandia01

hi, can you please prove to me how the st. barnabas bible is a forgery??or is it just plain easy to say something like this from you?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grandia01 (talk • contribs)

From Gospel of Barnabas: "The Gospel is considered by the majority of academics (including Christians and some Muslims) to be late, pseudepigraphical and a pious fraud; however, some academics suggest that it may contain some remnants of an earlier apocryphal work edited to conform to Islam." I'm not sure that language could be any stronger.

Second, please avoid personal attacks (Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks) and conform to the 3RR rule (WP:3RR). Thanks. -Patstuart 10:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. -Patstuart 10:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

re: in reply to your "proof"

1)no muslim scholar denied the authenticity of the gospel of st. barnabas. 2)just because "some" scholar denied it doesn't mean that what he/she said is 100% right because you still didn't provide any logical stand-alone proof.for example:just because bush said that iraq had wmd's,does that mean that iraq really had wmd's?? 3)who are and what are the histories of these "scholars" that you mentioned??not a single name is given... thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grandia01 (talk • contribs)

First off, please understand, I am not trying to make an enemy out of you. I am trying to explain what I wrote. It is now twice that you have personally attacked me, and more times than that that you have simply been rude. I would appreciate if we could keep this discussion on civil grounds.

To explain, I actually took that quote right from Gospel of Barnabas on Misplaced Pages. That was not my own quote. Someone else wrote it. Secondly, when I called it a quackery in the edit summary, I was mimicking something that someone else had written earlier. So I am certainly not alonen in my position. If something is controversial, it is standard procedure that it is discussed on the talk page before it is added. This happens often; it happened with one of my edits earlier today. Please respect this. Thank you for your patience. -Patstuart 10:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, I believe that you are slightly mistaken in your facts. You have stated "no muslim scholar denied the authenticity of the gospel of st. barnabas." This is a blanket statement, and I find that highly doubtful. http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/gbar/index.htm, a non-partisan site, describes the text as solely adopted by Muslims, and completely rejected by western scholarship. Thus, it is not "some scholar" who says it's wrong. If anything, it is most of any scholar who says it wrong, with some notable exceptions in the Muslim world. -Patstuart 10:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

If you wish to have a discussion on the talk page, I am certainly prepared to back up my statements with reliable sources.

i ask god to show all of us the right path. - that is my prayer every day. Let us, then, do our part, and pray to listen, rather than speak to be heard (I speak as much for myself as for you). God bless. -Patstuart 10:52, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Ahmedenijad comment

Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Misplaced Pages has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by administrators or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. -Patstuart 10:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Ahmedenijad, thank you for your advice.i guess i have to learn how to hold my temper.ramadhan mubarak!! :)) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Grandia01 (talk • contribs) .

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Ozonation

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re Image:Seldon1.jpg

Why is this image not in the public domain? It looks plenty old enough. But as on your upload you indicated that it was not free, I've deleted it. Herostratus 17:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Idea generation tools

This article has been nominated for deletion (or has already been deleted). Don't be discouraged! Many of us have had articles deleted, especially early in our wikicareers. Deletion is not a reflection on your editing but simply the application of our standard rules, particularly WP:NOTABILITY (and WP:BIO for persons, WP:WEB for websites, WP:CORP for companies, WP:MUSIC for bands, and so forth.) Looking forward to your future contributions, Herostratus 05:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Removal of your edits from Muhammad

The Gospel of Barnabas is widely considered a forgery. No sources you referenced for commentary on the Didache make mention of Islam or Mohommad. Please stop adding them to the Muhammad article. Frotz661 07:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

It should by now be obvious to you that this addition is not accepted by the editors to this article, and will be removed on sight. If you continue with this behavior, you will at some point assuredly be blocked. Until then, you are merely wasting everyone's time, including yours.Proabivouac 21:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

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Baldwin II of Jerusalem

It appears that your addition is a cut-and-paste off the Columbia Encyclopedia online here. We are not allowed to copy in that fashion, it's considered a copyright violation. Columbia Enc. would need to give explicit permission. Wjhonson 18:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment on my Talk page. In general it is fine to quote and cite the source, providing your quote does not make up the majority of the article, and provided your quote does not replicate the entire underlying source. Those are the areas where we get into hot water. So you could quote and cite one sentence say from the Columbia Enc. but if you quote the entire entry that's a no-no. Also if our entire article is simply one big quote, that's a no-no. The best articles have a mixture of direct and indirect quotes, plus summations of other sources all mixed together. See for example Krishnamurti which happens to have a lot of quotes and citations. But again, it has summations. It pulls together many sources into one article. Wjhonson 18:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Disruption on Muhammad

Grandia01, your repeated restoration of tendentious material without discussion and in total contempt of consensus has reached the level of disruption., , Please desist from this unacceptably dysfunctional approach to editting Misplaced Pages.Proabivouac 05:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Foretelling of Muhammad in the Bible?

Hello Grandia01 thanks for your polite note. The primary reason is that the material you're entering is considered to be somewhat of a fringe theory on the Muhammad article. This type of material can generally be removed per the undue weight clause of Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view policy. What I would recommend you do is consider creating an article about that idea and write it with well sourced attributable citations. The better sourced the material is (with scholarly sources, etc.) the more likely that it will remain on Misplaced Pages. (→Netscott) 06:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It's certainly novel. I've never seen anything like it before. Any source, if quoted, that refers to the Didache as a Gospel seems a bit suspicious. Perhaps Grandia you could quote and cite the complete section to Talk first so we can see what it is. Wjhonson 07:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Noted, please see the Talk page of Muhammad where I've opened a new discussion on whether the Gospel of Barnabas should not be mentioned in the article somewhere. Wjhonson 07:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Grandia01, sorry you caught me as I'm right in the middle of working on a template. I'm going to be a bit busy with that and then I will go to sleep... so I won't be particpating in that discussion for now. If it is still active later on today I will join in. See you. (→Netscott) 08:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Three revert violations

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Muhammad. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. -- Avi 07:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I see no evidence of Grandia engaging in 3RR violations. Avi, please don't be heavy handed when there is no need for it. Thank you. Wjhonson 07:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Muhammad

Hi Grandia01,

We need secondary sources per WP:RS to add that. I remember I have read that somewhere but don't rememeber where. I'll add it as soon as I find it. Cheers, --Aminz 21:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Barnabas

Grandia01, I'm reading the thread right now. I'm not at all familiar with the Barnabas story so I need to familiarize myself with it a bit more before I comment but at this point I wouldn't be too inclined to include it. Let me read up on it. (→Netscott) 08:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Another editor suggested we move some of the more contentious references to Muhammed into a new article. I would not be opposed to that. As far as the Gospel of Barnabas is concerned I'm a bit ambivalent. I can see the argument that you propose, but I can also see the argument, that from the point-of-view of the Muhammad article, it's a bit tangential. It's a very late work, or at least first attested in a late context. It also has elements that tend to speak perhaps toward a source among non-Trinitarian Christians instead of Muslims. The specific ways in which it speaks of Muhammad might be considered blasphemous by Muslims or heretical perhaps. I think most of this is discussed on the G.O.B. page, perhaps we should leave it there. Wjhonson 23:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits to Knights Templar

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Peter Beter

Hi there. I would suggest thoroughly reading and understanding Misplaced Pages's policy about no original research. Your belief, although you think it is interesting (as you stated), does not belong in Misplaced Pages because it has not been published in any reliable sources.--Dcooper 17:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to warn you that you are one edit away from violating the three-revert rule.--Dcooper 17:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I was unable to find sufficient reliable sources about Beter, despite looking at numerous database and sources beyond Google. Maybe you can find some sources, but I don't think there are enough available to support Misplaced Pages having an article on Peter Beter. As such, the article is nominated for deletion. I only found sources that talk about him, in reference to Jonestown. If there were enough sources, I would be willing to help improve the article. It's possible he can be mentioned in that or other articles, provided that suitable sources are given. You can weigh in on the deletion page. Regards. --Aude (talk) 18:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, you removed the article for deletion template from Peter Beter with this , claiming that there is no discussion about the deletion. You can find where it is being discussed here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Peter Beter. Feel free to contribute to the discussion, and to vote to keep or delete the article.--Dcooper 17:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Peter Beter

I don't know much about the article, I closed the AfD based on the discussion (where no consensus developed). Re sources, yes, in principle you can use audio sources, but it would be better if you can find an online transcript of the recordings and cite that. Also, bear in mind that the article shouldn't rely fully on primary sources from the subject themselves; on Misplaced Pages, independent secondary sources are preferred. See WP:RS and WP:ATT for more information on sourcing. Walton 16:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Salam

Will you like to help in improving Including Muhammad Pictures Against wiki-policies using references. Thanking you in anticipation. --- A. L. M. 22:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Top Rank

dear brother we do not need it. It is not a useful information. We do not need a western author support to tell other his contribution to our lifes. Many western authors say him bad but we do not also quote them. Because they are not relavent. We should try to tell history in clear way. :) :) --- A. L. M. 07:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

ALM, you are absolutely correct.Proabivouac 03:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks (again)

Grandia01, this edit is completely unacceptable. Personal attacks are not allowed on Misplaced Pages; do not make them.
Bear in mind that Misplaced Pages aims to discuss topics from a neutral point of view; this is not the appropriate venue to prove that anyone "is the greatest person who ever lived."
Finally, Misplaced Pages operates on the principle of consensus. Repeating the same edit against consensus, as you did for some time early with the "Gospel of Barnabas" material, and as you are doing now with the Hart quote, is disruptive. Use the talk page to try to obtain consensus (though it seems unlikely that you will) and refrain from personal attacks. Thank you.Proabivouac 03:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

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Idea generation tools

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Hitler

Grandia, if you don't have that passage then it is not saying anything about Hitler's religious beliefs is it, so what relevance does it have to the article? There is some reason to link Hitler's thought to broad ideas about Indo-European thought, especially as mediated by the German Idealist tradition. These points are discussed in detailed literature on Hitler's religious thought such as the papers published in the Journal of Contemporary History earlier this year and Michael Rissmann book Hitler's Gott (Zurich, 2001). Paul B 16:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

You are not making any sense. The Nazis believed that the Aryans originated in Germany, following the ideas of Gustaf Kossinna. They thought that the swastika was a symbol used by the Aryans in their travels, and that it eventually ended up in Iran and India. They did not think it originated there. Actually the more "paganist" of Nazis, such as Himmler and Rosenberg, were much more influenced by Zoroastrianism than Hinduism. The point is that this passage is just confused about the nature of Aryanist religious ideology. Paul B 16:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any problem with the BBC article itself. As I say, much of it is copied from what I wrote anyway! It's the interpretation that's at assue. However, this section could probvably be expanded, so I will add material from scholarly sources later. Paul B 17:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

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