Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:26, 29 May 2005

Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Misplaced Pages:Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

Hi, and welcome from me too. You may want to check out some important things you need to consider when you make a stub article - for example, an external link on it's own isn't a stub, because it says nothing at all about the topic itself. You may want to write a few sentences yourself on the subject with the link. Thanks Dysprosia 10:53, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Salsa

Hallo, auch aus Berlin, kommst Du zum großen wikipedianer-Treffen? Ich habe gesehen, dass Du am Salsa-Artikel mitgeschrieben hast, da wollte ich mal fragen, ob Du Interesse an einem wikibook über rueda-Kommandos (english) hast? Außerdem hast Du so viele Versionen Deiner Seite, bist Du an einem Lernprojekt interessiert, insbesondere für Vokabeln? Wenn ja, lass es mich auf meiner Diskussionsseite wissen. Get-back-world-respect 13:15, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Just wanted to let you know that I've downloaded the UN/LOCODE database and I will be processing the data and performing the actions you requested sometime soon. I'll let you know if I have any questions. – Ram-Man ] 04:04, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

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I have a question about the shortcuts. The suggested shortcut seems a bit complicated. Would it be better to have something shorter? You know this stuff more than I do, so maybe using the full "UN/LOCODE" is ideal. What about having shortcuts that just totally dispense with the "UN/LOCODE:" portion totally. I wouldn't think the five character codes are used for much else. Should there also be an equivalent IATA shortcut? The bot can create any of those, so it is not much of an issue. I wonder if the shortcuts should be added to the articles themselves or if they should remain "unpublished" so to speak. Thanks in advance for your help. – Ram-Man ] 14:50, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

discussion moved: Talk:UN/LOCODE

Geography

Three things:

1. Notice your interest in geocodes. One issue with these is that my gut feel (IANAL, mind you) is that although there may be a copyright on the actual publication (which means you cannot outright copy/paste their PDF) I would think the situation is different wrt. the facts, especially so if taken from alternative, public sources. For instance, the codes are used throughout Norwegian administration, and there is no question about limitations to their use.
2. For Norway, we have listed geocodes for all counties, municipalities and boroughs. Is there anything more we should do wrt geocodes? Should there be redirects from ISO codes to the various county and municipalities, for instance? Please answer on WikiProject Norway.
3. Something maybe related: If you are interested, I've started a WikiProject Geographical coordinates. I believe it should be possible to have bidirectional links to various map resources &mdahs; I am currently working on automatically generating back-links to Misplaced Pages from NASA World Wind, it looks quite promising. -- Egil 07:07, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Discussions about renaming of subnational entities moved to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Subnational_entities Tobias Conradi 17:44, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Talk:River_Vuoksi

moved.

ISO 3166-2

You wrote on my talk page:

Hi Phil,

nice that you do some work there and add sorted by name and so on. Do you think having it bold is a good idea? I do not like it, in other places we do not have bold codes neither regards ;-) Tobias Conradi 18:38, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ideally the key column ought to be bold, since that is the column you search on. So actually in the tables "sorted by name", the name column ought to be bold. That, however, can be sorted out later, in true wiki fashion. For now just constructing the tables and shoving the articles into the new category is enough to be getting on with. (BTW I'm going to continue putting them into category:ISO 3166: I don't think we actually need to break that down further.) HTH HAND --Phil | Talk 10:25, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

Peruvian regions

moved to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Subnational_entities

Mongolian aymags

Talk:Provinces of Mongolia

WP:RM

Please add a talk page so that your request to move can be discussed: See WP:RM#Multiple page moves for example of how to format you request. Philip Baird Shearer 10:44, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

From my Talk page Philip Baird Shearer:

Category:Requested moves I put move-notes in some pages, but no admin moves. How is it working, or should I wait longer? e.g. Template talk:Argentine provinces allready 12 days marked for move thx Tobias Conradi 23:32, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Did you post this requested move on the WP:RM#Notices section of the page? See WP:RM#Multiple page moves for example of how to format you request. You also need to format the designated talk page discussion see WP:RM#What to do on the talk page -- (If you wish to reply to this posting please do so on my talk page as I do not monitor other people's talk pages) Philip Baird Shearer 10:23, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think what you are suggesting (monitoring just by category) is done in Misplaced Pages:Duplicate articles. However it is only a month since arguments over moves were posted directly on to the WP:RM page, so it is a little soon to move to a category based system. Also there would have to be some way of keeping them by date inside the category in order to make it easy to administer. I do not know enough about templates to know if that is possible to automate. Philip Baird Shearer 15:36, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Japanese regions

No, I don't think they were ever administrative divisions. And what's really important is what they are now. -- ran (talk) 07:17, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Russian administrative divisions

You've got basic Russian subdivisions right, but I suggest you look at this list as well. It is incomplete and somewhat inaccurate, but it should give you an idea of the level of complexity of the project you are trying to pull. This is for Russia alone; I am sure there are other countries with just as great a variety of subdivision types as well.

I thus very much doubt that this variety can be brought to one common "English usage" denominator (don't forget the historical subdivision types which may no longer exist, but can still conflict with other terms just as efficiently as anything else—e.g., see guberniya or History of the administrative division of Russia). Trust me, your project is exactly what I had in mind (albeit only in regards to Russia) when I first joined Misplaced Pages. I am still interested in how you are going to move on, though; I just hope you are not going to give it up because people are unfriendly and because a lot of compromises will have to be made (and oh yes, they will). Good luck with your endeavor! If you have any Russia-related questions, feel free to drop me a note.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 20:49, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

I never said I am going to go along with your plan, but I am definitely not going to prevent you from doing it :) You have some very legitimate questions, many of which stopped me altogether.

Using "province" for "oblast" seems to be OK, and it is definitely acceptable when one is trying to explain what the heck an "oblast" is. The problem is, the actual English word "province" (and yes, I know it's not a native English word, of course) is translated into Russian as "провинция". Not only this word is heavily used to descibe subdivisions of certain other countries, it was also used as a name for subdivisions in Russia itself. Guberniyas were originally subdivided into "provinces"/"провинции". It is not really a problem when one talks of modern day administrative subdivisions, but in historical context it might be very confusing if you use the same word "province" to describe oblasts as well. For example, in 18th century the Goverorships General (guberniyas) were being transformed into vice-royalties ("наместничества"), and as a result, the original subdivision of guberniyas into provinces ("провинции") was replaced with their subdivision into oblasts ("области"). It's pretty easy to see that if you translate both "провинция" and "область" as "province", you have a pretty big problem on hand.

"Districts" are currently being used to describe both raions (районы) and autonomous districts (автономные округа) (as well as federal districts—федеральные округа). So far it has not been a problem, but I've been thinking of getting rid of "districts" altogether, which, of course, is the exact opposite of what your project is trying to accomplish. "Counties" sounds wrong when applied to Russia, for some reason. It's been long since Russia had any counts :)

"Territory" for "krai" seems to be the least controversial of all. Still, it may conflict with other countries subdivision types, which may be on a completely different level. "Region" sounds pretty generic and inaccurate; I would reserve it for historical regions (like Vyatka region).

Summarizing, these issues are exactly why the table I referred you to has so many columns. Each of them is good for certain occasions, but none of them is good to be used universally. I've been hoping to develop this table into an article someday, but I am quite hesitant to publish it yet as it is very incomplete (which may be hard to believe), and has a lot of inconsistencies. You are welcome to use it for general reference, of course, that's why it is there. Thanks for the compliment, by the way :)

Anyway, let me know what you think. I'd be happy to help where I can, it's just that I am overall sceptical that a universal solution can be developed.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 22:22, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I was kind of hesitant to see the contents of my table dumped into the article. The main reason is that they were unorganized and incomplete, and there were many organizational issues with them as well, which I hoped to (eventually) work out before presenting the article to the general public. After reviewing how the article looks now, I see that it turned out a bit better than I thought it would. Oh well, maybe there will be some fresh good ideas to finally organize all that stuff.

As for the oblasts, I'd recommend that you do not move them all at once. Once you have a more or less consistent system, move a couple of articles and see what the feedback is going to be. If you don't have the system worked out yet, don't move the article, or you'll spend the rest of your wikilife fighting people opposing your changes without being able to explain what kind of a final result you have in mind :)—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:12, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Oblasts -> Provinces_Provinces">

moved to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Subnational entities/Naming#Subdivisions of Russia

I posted a pretty long comment on my talk page. I am hesitant to cross-post it here due to its large size. Please, see it there if you are interested. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 16:00, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Capitalized subdivisions

Why do you insist capitalizing the Peruvian regions and now also the provinces names? Please understand that each country has its own way of calling things and you cannot go changing national costumes. Just because you think it looks more "standard" doesn't mean it is right! Please revert your changes.--Tuomas 03:07, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Well, this is what disambiguation and redirect pages are for. Redirects can be created so that people who enter the names incorrectly (for example "Camaná Province") will be transferred to the article whose name is correcty spelled (in this case, "Camaná province"). I think it's great that you want to make things more understandable and easier to use for people, but the information that is on wikipedia has to be accurate, and I know the whole capitalization issue might seem irrelevant, but it does matter if a P is lowercase or uppercase. --Tuomas 03:31, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, well for this case that you mention, a disambig page is necessary because two places share the same name. But I am talking about the Peruvian provinces. In this case, the correct spelling is lowercase. So if you want all provinces of the world to be standardized with a uppercase P, you should make redirects from these pages to the correct, lowercase ones, at least in the case of Peru, because as I said earlier, the information given on wikipedia has to be accurate. I think that the word "River" was easier to standardize because it is way more widespread than "province", which can still be used according to local customs. --Tuomas 04:16, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Again, as I've said before, I am only referring to Peruvian provinces and their most accurate spelling. I do not know about and I am not in charge of other countries' provinces, at least for now. And I did not say the word wasn't widespread, I said it's less widespread than river. --Tuomas 05:34, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

So that you can see the differences between countries, a google search shows that in Ecuador () and Argentina (]) it is common practise to capitalize the word, while in Peru it is not . El Comercio, the most important newspaper of Lima -and indeed of Peru-, does not capitalize the word. (examples: and ). If the Spanish language capitalization is respected in the case of Argentina and Ecuador, why should it not be taken in consideration for Peru? --Tuomas 06:04, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

I will not contradict you on this anymore, as hundreds of article names support your views, since not respecting national names is apparently considered correct on wikipedia. --Tuomas 06:51, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'm not totally sure but I think that after looking at some Peruvian government pages, some of the province names are incorrect (accents are missing, wrong spelling, etc.), so there would be no use in wikifying these names. I will look for the correct ones and put them in the articles as soon as I have time, and then they can be wikified. --Tuomas 07:29, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Ubeda

Please help me include Ubeda on the first line of the article. Philip Baird Shearer 10:43, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Flag templates

You might be interested in Misplaced Pages:Village_pump (news)#Flag_templates, a usefull standardization. -- user:Docu

I made more comments to Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(news)#Flag_templates.

 United States of America Template:Country data Earth (SEWilco 08:25, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Zürich to Zurich

Zürich has been nominated on Misplaced Pages:Requested moves for a page move to Zurich. Being a contributor to the previous vote you might like to express your opinion about this proposed move in the new vote on talk:Zürich. Philip Baird Shearer 09:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

sandboxes

• Halló Tobias! Please contentrate on own activities in the future. Beside moving "sandbox" contributions I was / I am still working on, I could see no improuvemnt except that cyrillic characters did disapear. Gangleri | Th | T 14:33, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)

San Isidro

There is a disctrict called San Isidro in Buenos Aires, Argentina, too. So the "improvement" you made may lead to confusion. Please fix this mess. Thank you. --Tuomas 01:09, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Chilean region names

Hi Tobias.

I fixed all double redirects for Aisén (region) and wanted to nullify my efforts :-) so I went to Talk:Regions of Chile. There I saw that you had posted a very similar remark to the one that I wanted to make. Plese go there and then we can see what can be done.

Regards from Santiago.

Pablo.cl 21:18, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Violetriga (talk) does a sterling job on WP:RM, but in this case I have some sympathy for your position because two of you want to make the moves and everyone else seems to be disinterested. If your appeal to Violetriga does not get the response you want, I suggest that you follow the advice at the bottom of WP:RM page for images and categories and put your case on Misplaced Pages:Requests for sysop attention and ask another administrator to make the moves for you. Philip Baird Shearer 06:53, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Cordillera Province and Santiago Province

Hi Tobias - thought you might like to know (if you're making any more articles on Chilean geograhy) that there is a separate {{chile-geo-stub}} that you can use, rather than the generic {{geo-stub}} template! Keep up the good work :)! Grutness| 04:47, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I work on geo worldwide, what would be nice is support of two-letter country codes for geo stubs. some countries have really long names. just an idea ...

Some of the longer ones do have abbreviations (SM-geo-stub for Serbia-Montenegro, for instance), but for the most part the full name is seen as the easiest thing to remember rather than looking at a coding sheet every time. You're right that having to type things like Afghanistan-geo-stub gets to be a chore after a while, though! If you're interested, there's a full list of them at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types#Place-related.2C_by_region_-_geography. Grutness|

Regions of Chile

Having thought about it I reckon that the regions of Chile should really be moved – you want them there and there's been no opposition. If you could do it without admin assistance I'm sure you would and there wouldn't be any complaints, so there's no reason for me not to do it. I'll sort them out tomorrow for you. violet/riga (t) 23:08, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Croatian counties

Hi. Please stop moving Croatian county pages to uppercased "County". Again. We've had this discussion once before and you've failed to provide any real reason why they should be moved. --Joy 22:26, 29 May 2005 (UTC)