Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 11:21, 26 July 2007

Old Irish

Old Irish seems to be slipping through some sort of crack on this. It is listed in the category for this page, yet is not listed on the main article, or mentioned at all for that matter. From what I have read on the subject, which is by all reasonable accounts very limited, I seem to recall that there is relatively little source material for the language, and that it is mostly in the form of margin scribblings in religious manuscripts. Would that not trump its inclusion as a Classical language? Does anyone know of independent and reputable confirmation that Old Irish meets the criteria for a Classical language? Wachowich 17:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Greek

Why Attic Greek and not just Greek, especially when koine Greek redirects to the latter and Attic Greek is a stub? I understand that modern Greek is a different language from Attic Greek, but are Attic and koine so different that the Greek Christian Scriptures (and the Septuagint, for that matter) cannot be considered part of the Greek literary canon? Arkuat 06:09, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)

Aye, especially given that limiting oneself to Attic means excluding Homer, Herodotus, and the tragedies (all of which are neither Attic nor koinè). "Ancient Greek" is what classicists study. jc Thu Apr 14 2005 08:41 AM

Not to mention Procopius and other late Classical/Early Byzantine authors. And if we're going to include the monolithic Tamil which lumps modern and classical Tamil together, then we may as well allow the same for Greek.--Jpbrenna 22:08, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Edit

Some of the links on the list didn't even lead to the language proper -- they went to a disambig page. I corrected that, I changed the Greek and Persian entries to "Classical" -- rather hard to define, but as the justice once said about pornography: "I know it when I see it." Procopius and Ferdowsi can probably pass muster as "Classical" but Hafiz and Digenes Akrites would be pushing it. It's hard to draw bright lines, but you have to at some point. I totally reject the inclusion of only Attic Greek as constituting the "Classical" corpus for that language, pace Prof. Hart. --Jpbrenna 17:37, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

what of ge'ez...that certainly will qualify...

Pali?

Classical languages are supposed to have arisen somewhat independently of one another, yet according to the wikipedia article on Pali it is very closely related to Sanskrit, much more so than Greek and Latin. Can Pali really be considered an independent, classical language? eeesh 20:53, 15 May 2006

Criteria for being a Classical Language

It's very ambiguous for whdfdfat the criteria of a classical language really is, even with the insightful declaration that Tamil is a classical language in his report here http://tamil.berkeley.edu/Tamil%20Chair/TamilClassicalLanguage/TamilClassicalLgeLtr.html. Pali is close to Sanskrit yes, but the historical roots are probably different. For that, we must find a historia to verify if Pali is a classical language or not and find the absolute criteria of a classical language.

If we're going to discuss Tamil, what about Classical Mayan? Or Sumerian? Or Ancient Egyptian? They have all (as far as we know) independent literary traditions which span centuries and which influenced several cultures since. In fact, there should be probably a whole legion of ancient languages which can claim classical status. --Wtrmute 22:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Not really -- Egyptian culture was somewhat influential in a way (though Egypt borrowed from outside as much as gave to other societies), but there was not a borrowing of a large number of Egyptian words into any other attested language, and no other language was written directly with the Egyptian writing sytem (though Egyptian writing did influence the development of the Proto-Sinaitic and Meroitic alphabets). To make a classical language, you need general cultural influence PLUS broad language-specific influence (see next subsection). AnonMoos 02:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

If you bothered reading the article you would have noticed that there was a wide array of criteria for a language having the classical status thus you should try to even skim over the last few paragraphs before trying to assert such statements. If what you said then practically every ancient language would be classical but there is a different from CLASICAL and ANCIENT

This is a problem. It does seem like there should be a distinction between "ancient languages" and "classical languages," but Ancient language redirects to Classical language. It seems to me that there are a lot of ancient languages that ought not be classified as classical languages. Also, the definition of "classical language" used in the article was constructed specifically to justify listing Tamil as a classical language, which makes the article look POV. If Prof Hart got that definition from somewhere else, surely we should cite another source. The above justification for not including Egyptian as a classical language is the lack of "broad language-specific influence." But the article on the Tamil language doesn't discuss the influence of Tamil on other languages. Is influence (also discussed in the next section) a criterion or not? PubliusFL 17:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Criterion is not "literature" as such

The main criterion is not having a great body of literature, it's influencing a significant number of other languages over a significant period of time. If language A "naturally" uses roots from language B to form coin new technical terms (as English used Greek roots to coin the word "telephone" etc.) then that's one piece of evidence that language B might be a Classical language. AnonMoos 02:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I would have to say that literature is a criteria imo. What you state is correct as well but having a wide amount of quality literature is important to have a language being a classical language over just an ancient one. We refer to many books such as classics and these classics are usually written in Classical Languages thus it is easy to see which languages are not in that aspect of literature only.

Sanskrit is not completly dead.

It has a considerable amount of native speakers.

Although very less(Last survey results showed it around 5000),But still it cannot be considered as a dead language.

Any suggestions on it is welcome.

List_of_Indian_languages_by_total_speakers -- User:Nrupatunga 03:31, 12 March 2007

Sanskrit is being revived. "Dead" means that it used to be extinct. Living languages change, and if Sanskrit revival should really succeed, "Neo-Sanskrit" will not be a classical language any more, just like Ivrit isn't ancient Hebrew. You can't have your cake and eat it. Either your language is classical and fossilized, or it is alive and changing. dab (𒁳) 20:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Sanskrit is niether my language and niether i am intrested in promoting it.Its the fact that there are few villages in karnataka where people's native language is sanskrit.If language of strength 5000 is considered to be dead then i doubt nearly 3000 languages in the today's world list to be declared as extinct.Anyhow you can remove that whole paragrapgh of living classical language as it is irrelevent here.User_talk:Nruptunga

Dubious reference and misinterpreted claims

I have serious concerns over this article. The whole article has only one reference to support it. This one]. This reference is but a personal email that Mr. Hart has written to somebody. While I certainly agree that Mr. Hart is a scholar of the language, I am not so sure that a personal mail written by him can carry the same weight as say a peer reviewed article written by him in a journal.

Also, the reference provided talks only about Tamil and doesnt certify the other languages that are named in the article as classical. So how did the other languages named in the article make it to the article? What references were used? Are there any other references at all that define classical languages the way that Hart defines it. Are there any other references at all that make the same claims that Hart makes? I think without these questions being answered the article is dangerously close to being original research. Sarvagnya 09:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

What about the referenced quote from Edward Sapir? AnonMoos 13:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I made a similar point in a comment above, from 21 Feb, which apparently went unnoticed. The problem I see is that the two references apparently contradict each other about Tamil (which is not one of Sapir's "five languages") and the Hart one seems a little polemical and really ought to be backed up with something from someone more disinterested, or it makes the article look POV. Like I said above, if Tamil comes in, I don't see how you keep Egyptian out. PubliusFL 14:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I'm sorry I'd missed the Sapir ref. But then refs are atleast meant to be in the External links if not under "References" itself. Now that I've taken a cursory look at Sapir's ref., I have another even more important question. I did a Ctrl-F for "classical language" on that Sapir ref and there is nowhere that he uses that term. In other words, I am now beginning to suspect that the article title itself is a neologism. I am beginning to suspect that there is no proper scholarly definition for "Classical language". In other words, I do not think(atleast going by the evidence we have now) that this "Classical language" has any scholarly sanction. If we were to go by the dictionary meaning of the word "Classical" I'm sure that not just Egyptian but Kannada and Telugu and Malayalam and loads of other languages too will be able to make the claim. Sarvagnya 16:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Prof. Hart is a highly respected scholar and a professor at a well-known University (UC Berekely) and it is mindboggling to note that his categorical statements and the official declaration of the govt. of India are ignored and some 'opinions' of some individuals are circulated here! Is this all a wikipedia can do?! Sapir died a long time before much about Tamil works are widely known in the west. None of you have POV and but Prof. Hart does?! Wake up guys!--Aadal 02:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The government of India and its babus isnt an authority on linguistics and as for Prof Hart, nobody is questioning his credentials. All I am saying is, since Hart is an academic himself, you should point to some book or journal that he has written where he has explained what classical languages are. And then, you should demonstrate that mainstream scholarship agrees with Prof Hart. Instead of that, what we have here is a personal snail mail that Hart has written to somebody. Sorry. Sarvagnya 03:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

You have no right to make such derogatory statements about the declaration of the President of India nor dismiss Professor Hart's statement. --Aadal 05:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Much as I respect the president of India, for all your whining it might not be out of place for me to point out that the President is a Tamil himself. And DMK the allies of the ruling Congress party are well known Tamil fanatics from Kumari kandam. So you'd do well to stop whining and bring better sources to the table. Thanks. Sarvagnya 08:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Whether you like it or not, Govt. India had officially declared that Tamil is a Classical Language. Am I whining?! Just pointing out that you have no right to use such derogatory words about Govt. India and President's declarations. Personally you may not agree or you may have other opinions, which is fine, but you can not deny the facts. Further, Prof. Hart, who has sound scholarship in Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin literatures and who is a Professor of Tamil in a reputable university, and who has written many books on Tamil and is an authority is fully qualified, and he categorically states that Tamil is a classical language from his knowledge. If someone says who has declared western classical music, it is not some specific body, but more by people who know the music. --Aadal 13:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

My point is twofold. First, since Prof Hart is specifically a professor of the Tamil language, he has a vested interest in claiming that Tamil is a classical language. I'm not saying he is incorrect, but at least for appearance's sake we should be able to point to something to show that this claim is accepted by the broader community of classical language scholars. Second, assuming that Tamil is a classical language (which I believe to be a reasonable claim), the question of why Classical Egyptian is not listed as a classical language was raised earlier on this talk page. The reason given is that Egyptian did not have influence on a significant number of languages over a significant period of time. Either we need to show how Tamil had this kind of influence on other languages and other literatures, or in fairness we ought to include Egyptian (and possible a few other languages) as classical languages. PubliusFL 05:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

(1) Because Hart, having learned and studied many languages including Sanskrit, Greek and Latin, and being a Professor of Tamil, he is eminently qaulified. If I'm a professor of mechnaical engineering, esp. in a reputable University I would be presumed to know quite well the subject matter. It is ridiculous to dismiss his statement and the official declaration of the Govt. of India. Read Prof. Hart's "The Poems of Ancient Tamil" where he shows the influence of Tamil on Indo-Aryan. See Chapter 10 there. (2) As to the Egyptian, I have no knowledge of the language or the claims of the contenders. --Aadal 13:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

You cannot just say "Tamil is a classical language", just like you cannot just say "Greek/Latin is a classical language". There is a specific Classical Greek / Classical Latin language, and if you want to argue Tamil has a "Classical" stage, you'll need to refer to Classical Tamil in particular: this at present redirects to Tamil literature, which does not mention any "classical stage". Maybe the language of Chola literature can be considered "Classical Tamil"? According to whom? Just claiming "Tamil is Classical!!1" is pointless, and smells of naive ethnic ego-massage. Also note that if Tamil literature has a "classical" stage, so do lots of other literary traditions. "Classical Icelandic" is the language of the medieval sagas. "Classical Persian" would probably be Pahlavi. "Classical Aramaic" would be the official language of the late Assyrian empire. There is no way that if we're going to extend the list beyond the handful of "world-classics" that we'll just introduce Tamil and nothing else: You'll open the floodgates to any number of "classical" stages in national literatures. dab (𒁳) 10:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not 'just saying' Tamil is a classical language. Govt. of India had declared it as such. Read above and I've pointed out Prof. Hart's qualifications. Read Prof. Hart's book mentioned above. Tamil reached classical stage between 200 BCE to 200 CE and this extended until 600 CE. Subsequently, it is a new level of devotional/philosophical/cultural classicism. Are you a scholar or knowledgeable person in Tamil and Tamil literature? Please understand that I am not discounting that you could be. Please just answer it would help in understanding your point of view. I object to your words "smells of naive ethnic ego-massage". I would suggest that you stop ad hominem comments and make your points. Can you deny that Govt. India had declared Tamil as the Classical Language? Can you deny the scholarship of Prof. Hart and his categorical statement? --Aadal 13:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Definition of "Classical language"

I don't think that the term classical language is any kind of neologism, but unfortunately there seem to be two currents of thought about what the best definition of a classical language is. One side emphasizes broad influence over a large cultural area for a long period of time (including over speakers of languages not closely linguistically related to the classical language in question) -- as seen in the Sapir quote -- while the other side focuses more on a language's internal long and glorious tradition of literature, regardless of the degree of its external influence. Medieval Persian certainly qualifies under both sets of criteria (since Persian poetry was widely read in many Muslim lands, and Persian was used as an administrative language over areas of Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent for many centuries), so I'm not sure why Persian is left out of the list in this article. But Tamil and ancient Egyptian only qualify under the internal criteria. AnonMoos 14:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Agree 100%. In the long run, I think this article should describe how "classical language" originally referred to the languages in which the Western "classics" were written (Latin and Greek), that in recent decades the term has been extended to comparable languages from other literary traditions, and that (as you describe) there are differing "currents of thought" about what the essential characteristics of a classical language are and exactly what languages qualify as classical. PubliusFL 19:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually Sanskrit was recognized by European professional linguists as a classical language (though maybe not by the general educated public) as far back as the early 19th century.

Another strongly "externally" influential Classical language that comes to mind is Pali, in which the early Buddhist scriptures were written. The written Burmese language pretty much started out as Pali with some Burmese words thrown in. According to the external-influence criteria, Pali has a stronger claim than Tamil... AnonMoos 21:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

If it is 'internal criteria'(as described by anonmoos above), then not just tamil and egyptian' but Kannada and telugu and probably dozens of other languages from around the world will also qualify. The cause of the confusion here is that there are atleast three definitions of the word 'classical' in this context.

1. The plain vanilla dictionary meaning of the word 'classical'
2. Classical language under Indian constitution
3. The definition per the mainstream linguistic community(which, I presume, is what has been used in branding Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Chinese etc., as 'classical' languages)

Now the issue is as to what are these definitions? The dictionary meaning may vary slightly between dictionaries, is too loose for technical purposes and hence may be disregarded for our discussions here.

We are now left to ponder about the definitions of (2) and (3). Does anyone here have any source that unequivocally defines these?

As for people pushing to include Tamil here, I think they should, at the very least, tell us how the Indian government defines it and then they should establish that #2 and #3 are the same.

And finally, the million dollar question is, who confers this tag to languages? Is it just mainstream academic view that counts or is there an organisation like UNESCO(read something about UNESCO somewhere) that formally confers this status to selected languages?

Until these issues are addressed, I think including Tamil here is unnecessary and also that the tags on the article should remain. This article discusses a technicality and its presentation and referencing leaves a lot to be desired. Sarvagnya 20:50, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I think until these issues are addressed, I think Tamil should be included. --Natkeeran 22:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

It is not a 'tag' to a language, it is a recognition of a fact. Well respected scholars like George Hart, Thomas Malton, Lindolm, and numerous others in europe and US and India and Japan know that Tamil is a Classical Languge. A declaration like Govt. of India's (or UNESCO's) is but an act of recognition of a fact. No one is 'pushing' Tamil, we are simply recording an official declaration by the Govt. of India - which is indeed a rare event. --Aadal 00:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The government(!) of India declaring "Tamil is Classical!1" per fiat is obviously a political gesture more than anything else. We can note here that they made this gesture, but that's about as far as it goes. The lack of content behind this gesture is evident from the fact that apparently the "Tamil language" has been declared "classical" part and parcel. That's silly. Note that per Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Classical Tamil, "Classical Tamil" is in use for the language of Sangam literature in particular. The question is, how widely used is this terminology? References? Is this usage disrupted now because of the governmental decree? dab (𒁳) 13:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is Hebrew listed?

The reference provided in the article reads - These are classical Chinese, Sanskrit, Arabic, Greek, and Latin. In comparison with these, even such culturally important languages such as Hebrew and French sink into a secondary position.

Why then is Hebrew listed in the article? Does anyone have a reference to support Hebrew's claim? Sarvagnya 16:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

it's a question of usage. "Classical Hebrew" is clearly a widely used term (124,000 google hits, 1200 google scholar hits). dab (𒁳) 13:03, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Google hits can not be counted in general (to prove something) and there is some discussion about this somewhere in WP. Just for curiosity I tried to google for Classical Tamil and I get 24,200. With Google scholar I get 253. For Tamil, the period 200 BCE and 300 CE.is generally considered as the golden/classical stage. This is often referred, since ca. 1000 CE, as Sangam period (see Sangam Literature). During this time inimitable, surprisingly modern, secular, aesthetic literaure was created and this collection contains 2381 poems written by 473 poets, some 102 of whom are anonymous authors; and several were women poets. I know that Hebrew was considered as a classical language (not withstanding the comments by Sapir), but I'm sure there must be more 'authentic' reason to consider Hebrew as a classical language. I'm not disputing Hebrew's status, but I think it is wrong the way Tamil is discriminated here. --Aadal 13:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The Sapir quote provides a useful perspective, but on its own it can't really be taken as decisive evidence that Chinese, Sanskrit, Arabic, Greek, and Latin are the only classical languages. Hebrew never really had a territorial empire associated with it (like most classical languages with broad external influence), but it had a strong influence on various Jewish cultures in many regions of the world for many centuries... AnonMoos 22:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Not just Jewish cultures, Hebrew literature (namely, the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament) had a tremendous influence on the development of Western literature and thought (like, monotheism). Classics departments at many colleges and universities group Hebrew together with Greek and Latin -- see, for example, University of Melbourne, Macalester College, Middlebury College, Tulane University, Pomona College, University of British Columbia, and University of California - Davis. As the University of Melbourne's Classical Studies Department says, "Western civilisation evolved largely from the interplay between three `classical' cultures - Greek, Roman and Semitic." PubliusFL 22:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

We have to be clear that there are "the Classical Languages" and "classical languages". What I mean is that when you refer to "the Classical Languages" without context, what is meant are the Latin and Greek languages. Yes the term is Eurocentric, sue the English language. But when you talk about "the classical language" within a certain context, such as, when discussing Icelandic, Tamil or Turkish, you are merely referring to a "classical stage" within a certain literary tradition, and any language with some literary history may have such a "classical" stage. We also have to be clear that by the very nature of the term "classical", it is not the entire language that is classical. Saying "Tamil is a classical language" is as silly as saying "Turkish is a classical language": the classical variant is only ever a subset of the language as a whole. The tendency to say "Greek is a classical language" is due to classicists using "Greek" to mean "Classical Greek" by default, ignoring the existence of "Modern Greek" as much as possible. If "Greek" is used to refer to Modern Greek, it obviously isn't "Classical". By the same token, Modern Tamil certainly isn't classical, if anything, the language of the Sangam literature is. dab (𒁳) 08:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Does the topic even exist or is this all original research?

I'm unconvinced that the term is even more than marginally used in scholarly research. classical as a qualifier to specific languages, as in classical latin vs medieval latin, that's another thing. --Pjacobi 15:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a problem. Search Google Books for "classical languages" and you get well over 3,000 results, many books in the first couple of pages from the mid-19th century to today with "classical languages" in their titles. ERIC lists 474 articles and papers categorized with the descriptor "Classical Languages." Many colleges and universities have whole departments of "classical languages." Hard to say that a topic doesn't exist when academic departments at major universities are based on it. PubliusFL 16:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Quite a number of thise hits relate to epochs of a specific language, as said above. Then there are a large number of books relatated to education which takes is just as shortcut for Latin and Greek. --Pjacobi 17:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL Addhoc 17:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

If you actually follow the links returned by the searches, you will see the problems mentioned above. --Pjacobi 19:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Essentially, I understand your concerns, however believe the article is probably going to be viable. Addhoc 19:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

the article does address the mainstream usage of "classical Latin" vs. "medieval Latin", that's the main part of the article now. Disputes surrounding "Classicity" as some absolute are obviously purely ideological and should be treated as a sidenote. But they do exist and should be mentioned. The 2004 India thing is of course a reflection of political pressure related to such ideology. dab (𒁳) 20:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Japanese?

Japanese & even Ottoman Turkish are classical languages, but Ge'ez & Tamil aren't? This article is in a deplorable state, but I'm getting the feeling that any changes I make are going to be reverted very soon... -- 14:08, 26 June 2007 59.93.219.82

Unfortunately, there's been recurring unproductive edit warring by some Tamil advocates. AnonMoos 14:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The article says that there is no such language as "Classical Tamil", but as far as I'm aware, Classical Tamil grammar has been rigorously defined in the Tolkappiyam and other texts. In traditional forms of literature such as Kural, these rules are impossible to bend. Modern Tamil on the other hand, is a different language that exists as the vernacular dialect in a state of diglossia. Its true that Tamil's influence is relatively small, but isn't Hebrew's as well? And if Ottoman Turkish is a classical language, so is Javanese. Whats wrong with Ge'ez? Its often called "classical ethiopic", has been used extensively since the 5th century BC, and greatly influenced modern Ethiopian languages.

Classical Languages of India

I cleaned up the section on Classical languages of India, without taking away what was claimed in it earlier (to the extent that was validated by the reference). However to be frank, I don't know why we have that section - for classical languages from just India, excpet perhaps as someone's means of resolving a dispute -- Amit 14:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

because India is the only country I know of where "classical language" is an official label handed out by the government. Strictly speaking, this is disambiguation, we have "classical language (as in common use)" and "classical language (as defined by the Indian govermnemt)". The two do not necessarily have much to do with one another. dab (𒁳) 07:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The section on India is in my mind irrelevant in any encyclopedic article about classical languages of the world. It is third rate petty politics that has no notability outside a very few restricted and overly interested group of people. So what the Republic of Timbaktu decides to call Gaborenese a classical language. Who really cares from a linguistic point of view ? Next Kannadawill be classical language in India and pretty soon the entire official language list of India will be same as the Indian classical language list. What is the relevance ? at best it should be listing under See AlsoTaprobanus 21:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey everyone please don't revert non-controversial edits in the midst of your edit wars. I had just cleaned up the wording to make it more accurate. Done that again. If anyone has any issues please raise them here first. I have NO OBJECTION to Tamil being called a classical language. And as for the section, I don't think it needs to be there. We could at most add line that the govt of India officially declares two (or whatever number) of Indian languages as classical. --Amit 17:35, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Tamil

can you stop the edit warring on Tamil? It is perfectly at home in the "general usage" section. Here, "classical" is merely a relative classification within a given language's history: Classical Tamil contrasts with post-classical, medieval or modern Tamil, just as Classical Chinese contrasts with Modern Chinese. dab (𒁳) 07:16, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

OR

When making such strong POV statements, editors better have a citation to back them up:

The category's introduction has a political, not a philological motivation, notably the Pure Tamil Movement's claim of Tamil as the "Primary Classical Language of the World".

Instead of ORing and revert warring, I suggest anybody who wants to keep this line bring along a reference. Lotlil 20:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I say the whole dam section should be nuked, has no place in an encylopedic article about classical languages ? Taprobanus 21:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the section is entirely out of place in this article (whether the article itself makes sense is another question). But I don't feel strongly about including this section either. If you feel this section needs to go, I don't have any objections. My only gripe is with adding uncited pov content. Lotlil 02:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

To Sarvagna

Hi Sarvagna. I would appreiciate if you make some kind of comment on the talk page before making abrupt reverts. The references you give do NOT support your assertions in the text, that's why I had cleaned up the section to bring it in line with those. The news report only mentions that the govt is "going to add" a new catagory. If you have proper references please add them and I would have no complaints. Not to mention the fact that the wording used (constitutional "decree"!) is fairly lousy. If you know for a fact that Sanskrit and Tamil are not the oldest lang's then u cud have deleted just that part, or added a <citation needed> tag. I don't have any agenda here. --Amit 11:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)