Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:07, 5 August 2007

By default, I will respond on your talk page to messages that you post here, and I expect you to do the same, though you can specifically let me know your preferences.

Trentino-Alto Adige

Hello, I would like to know your opinion on this extreme behavior of Germans such as Gryffindor. They have pushed their POV and moved everything to this South Tyrol. Even the list the Province of Bolzano now as South Tyrol. I feel this is an absolutely shameful and unethical way to use WP, and it should be brought to neutral administrators. Taalo 19:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Mediation

Please respond to Lar's offer, if anything with a thanks! Taalo 18:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Historical

Ciao supparluca, i hope you know that when i bring up the history it is to point out much of the irony in these discussions. i'm laughing now that martin/emes wants to believe that italians were never in that area, when in fact the romans arrived 2000 years ago. anyway, i believe we are all of this region, country, continent, etc. the austrians and greeks are all our cousins -- at least that is how i see it. i believe an "italian" must have done something bad to martin/emes these past few years.. i don't know. Taalo 19:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

The REAL name: Trentino-Alto Adige

So I did some research and checked with some pretty credible sources as to what they print, in ENGLISH, for the name of this region (and province) in Italy.

• Fodor's - a well recognized and respected name (and expert guide) has regional and local publications that show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bolzano".

• Michelin - also expert in travel guides - has regional and local publications that show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bozen".

• Rand McNally (name speaks for itself) has world, regional, and local publications that show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bolzano".

• Streetwise Map's regional, and local publications show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bolzano".

• Dorling Kindersley or "DK" - by far, probably the best travel guides available - has regional and local publications that show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bolzano".

• Lonely Planet (the self-proclaimed largest independently-owned travel guide) regional, and local publications show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bolzano".

• Hammond Map - a subsidiary of Langenscheidt Publishing Group (a privately-held German publishing company) - has regional and local publications that show the region and local names of "Trentino-Alto Adige", "Alto Adige", and "Bolzano".

As far as proof, I am quite sure that the above sources are credible enough, especially in the sense of geographical knowledge, expertise, and English-translation. Rarelibra 03:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Requested moves

I re-opened the discussion on the move of Trentino-South Tyrol and South Tyrol. If you want to say your opinion, you're welcome. --Checco 07:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I have re-opened again as well. Taalo 10:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Motion to close mediation

A very important note. This mediation offer concerned the greater overall naming convention to use in this region, not just the name of the region itself. We came up with a very good compromise for the regional name itself. I for one am still looking forward for Lar to help us out. Taalo 21:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey, welcome back

Good to see you back Supparluca. I think it is fine to use Province of Bolzano-Bozen and Bolzano (Bozen) though. This fits general convention for dual-language communities like in Canada. Icsunonove 22:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I got your message. I had the userid taalo, but from how a lot of these people act, i wanted to just be away from this wp. but, overall, i guess i still can't throw away my idealistic side. so i rebirth with a more serious account. at least i made a more detailed user page. :} Icsunonove 17:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Placename conventions

Hi, thank you for your message. I appreciated that you explained your point of view. I was not aware that a consensus had been reached about the naming convention that you described, but I'll be most glad to stick to the rule in my next contributions. I would probably prefer a "dual name" convention (Bolzano/Bozen, Helsinki/Helsingfors, Biel/Bienn) but I understand that many entries would become excessively complicated to read. Also, it seems to me that the naming convention (one main placename used in the heading and the corpus of the entry, other placenames quoted in the first line) should be used consistently. Therefore, it has been Bolzano and Brixen (or Meran), otherwise we're facing a classic case of double standard. I would like to point out that I'm not at all interested to participate in an exchange of opposite POVs about everything that lies between Brennerpass/Passo del Brennero and Salurn/Salorno. I think that a neutral and "politically correct" wording is a very wise solution that clears the way from any charge of "Italian POV" in these entries. By the way, I've been adding some improvements in style and vocabulary to the entry about South Tyrol because the existing text in English was a bit weak at some points. Any feedback will be appreciated. Take care, FrancescoMazzucotelli 14:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

RfC on Gryffindor

Lets put in a formal request. I saw he is doing more admin abuse while I was on break. This is not proper to constantly use admin powers to push his strange nationalism. Icsunonove 07:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Blizzard Entertainment

I reinstated your reverts of my edits on Blizzard Entertainment, with explanation here. --Voidvector 07:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Bolzano

Instead of simply reverting, you could have replace Bozen with Bolzano. —AldeBaer (c) 07:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, I noticed you used an edit summary that reads "you can move "Bolzano" to "Bozen", and then you can add the "Bozen - South Tyrol" name" — What has the Bolzano versus Bozen naming for the city to do with the South Tyrol name for the province/region/area? —AldeBaer (c) 11:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Both "South Tyrol" and "Alto Adige" are far more common -for the province- in English Google/Google news hits than anything containing Bolzano. Since WP:NCGN says we should the widely accepted English name, and since the article is therefore appropriately named, we shouldn't pipe the link at all and simply link to South Tyrol when not explicitly discussing the province as a political entity, in which case I'm fine with "Province of Bolzano". —AldeBaer (c) 11:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

move request

Hey Supparluca, Do you mind checking out TN for a move request? We have to talk sometime too about finally getting a fair solution for the T-AA/ST debacle. Icsunonove 01:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Saw your vote, lets debate a bit then. :-) I think the case is that TN and BZ are the two provinces in Italy that have this Autonomous Province of... title, that is why I think it is worth noting. Plus, when I listen to the online radio from the area, I hear them all the time say Provincia autonoma di Trento after they make some advertisement about visiting Trentino. So maybe I heard it so many times, now I want it to be right on English Misplaced Pages too. :P Anyway, do reconsider. Icsunonove 11:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you'll like my reply on the TN page. hah. Icsunonove 17:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Isarco

Please check the talk page, we made a mistake in the move. More Italian speakers surround the river. Icsunonove 22:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

the conversations on this page remind me of why I really dislike this whole debate and a lot of the people involved. :( I feel sorry for you, someone who lives in BZ, that there are people that act/think like this. I was reading some stuff on unionfs, and was completely shocked; but then it fits very well with the mentality of many people I see on here. I applied their criteria using correct mathematics, and I feel I get bashed. Icsunonove 20:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

SVP

AndreasJS pointed me to this: Had you seen this? Is the SVP actually hoping to erase all the Roman/Italian names? O_O Icsunonove 00:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I hope they have a good purpose, this SVP. Ilario makes me laugh when he said you must be new. :-) I remember Emes saying once they met in Bolzano and discussed everything and came up with the method they will use. I just find it very funny that a few Wikipedians can get together and think they have decided for the World. :-) They are but a few people with their own opinion. Still, you see people like Emes, his opinion is just on the hyper-extreme; no concept of really compromise, sharing, or even being half way relaxed. :)) Anyway, if you know some good editors, do ask them to come over and discuss. It would be nice if we can get more fresh ideas. Icsunonove 17:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

BZ

By the way, do you want to go ahead and put in a request to move South Tyrol to Province of Bolzano-Bozen and History of South Tyrol to History of Alto Adige/Südtirol? Icsunonove 17:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess you are right it is too early. Already people go a bit crazy over the names of rivers in Italy. I would personally prefer Province of Bolzano-Bozen, but second best would be Province of Bolzano. Both are correct actually, I just feel the first has more chance since it is in the Encyclopedia Brittanica, and it is multilingual (so people won't make accusations of fascists erasing Germans...). For the history page, I think History of Alto Adige/Südtirol (or History of Alto Adige/South Tyrol) would be better, because then it matches History of Trentino and Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol. Also, I don't think it is fair to only use South Tyrol, because the other valid English name is Alto Adige. There shouldn't have to be this constant appeasement to these angry people. You know what, the term South Tyrol still in some ways sounds funny to me, because shouldn't the real "South" Tyrol be Trentino? :)) I'm sorry, but Südtirol is more Middle or Central Tyrol..hah. At least the term Alto Adige is a real thing -- here is a river, and it starts in BZ. :) Anyway, funny stuff. Icsunonove 19:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree it may be better to let the dust settle a little. SL, I also tend to agree that double names may not be the best idea generally, but this case may be an exception. I'm not sure. However, before proposing the move, we should best settle on one version (Province of Bolzano, or Province of Bolzano-Bozen). It'd make consensus on a move even more difficult to reach with more than two options. —AldeBaer (c) 09:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, agree on both points. Let the dust settle and come up with an initial consensus on Bolzano versus Bolzano-Bozen. More so, I agree that even if there are so-called conventions, they can be broken. I think this is a very good case where having a double name is a good solution and even has Brittanica has a reference. Also, I can easily predict that if it isn't a dual name we are going to have to hear all sorts of nasty stuff again (i.e., as was the case on Adige, etc.). Icsunonove 23:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Isarco/Eisack

The admin who closed the move request messaged me at my talk page that we can request a review. I do believe the arguments made for a move far outweigh those against. In fact, the only arguments against were from Matthead, and which were quite baseless. Icsunonove 20:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Provinces of Italy

Hello, could you help with the user Rarelibra, I found you have had discussions with him before. It is unreasonable what he does on this page and what he says at South Tyrol. 71.109.183.44 07:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Province of Bolzano-Bozen

Hi Supparluca, I think we can go ahead and ask now to have the pages renamed since they have split, eh? We can do the province page first. Do you have a preference for Province of Bolzano, Province of Bolzano-Bozen, or Province of Bolzano/Bozen? I prefer the second since it is in Encyclopedia Brittanica. The first is probably more common English usage though, and is in the official translation of the autonomy statute. The last is also given on the BZ official webpage. I'll ask Aldebaer and Checco also to comment here. Thanks! Icsunonove 17:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

HAH! Saw your message, and good point. AldeBaer and Checco, please go to the discussion I've setup on the talk page. I've asked AndreasFS to join us as well, and I imagine others will chime in. Icsunonove 18:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

• did you see what rarelibra did now. . I swear people really act bizarre on this encyclopedia. I came in on Monday morning, saw an edit war, and even went and added his reference. I just pointed out no editors support this Bozen-South Tyrol thing, and I guess the result is some users throwing all their toys out of the pram. Icsunonove 18:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

ok, now pmanderson is going insane.. o_O O_o o_O Icsunonove 21:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I can't think of how to have information to fit on three artcles, it will really get confusing. Two is really enough. Also, it is unacceptable to just have South Tyrol. If there is a page describing the region it has to be Alto Adige/South Tyrol or Alto Adige/Südtirol. Any other way is just incorrect, considering Alto Adige is used more often in English. Icsunonove 21:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Lake Resia

Gryffindor and Emes may not be around lately contributing, but Matthead certainly is. Check out Lake Resia; he is making a German page (and even in German! :-). It is hilarious. This lake in English is definitely known as Lake Resia; not Reschensee, Lago di Resia, or Lake Reschen. Anyway, hopefully he is just planning a translation and then to move the page to the proper location. I see the German article has some nice POV too.. hah. The Italian article is actually much more reasonable and neutral. Icsunonove 19:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it, and put a new article. :-) Icsunonove 20:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Just my opinion

Hello, Supparluca! First I'd like to say sorry for I haven't got an account, that's why I usually don't contribute in the English Misplaced Pages. I know that the folks here are very strict with it. So, I'd like to excuse me. I may just speak out my opinion about your "interests", namely to erase the German names of every location, which lies in this area. I'd like to say, that it is not a nice thing you're doing, if that are your only contributions, especially because those names have their Germanic origins 1900 years ago, and the Italian names were invented by a fascist in the '30-ies. And I hope that you don't support such ideologies that killed millions of innocent people. For your other arguments - I've read some of your discussions and opinions of other people about your ideas - concerning ancient Roman names, you have to know, that also the Romans in South Tyrol were an occupying power, and the names they made were only invented for some barracks they had there. The only population were Rhaetians, today called Ladins, Illyric descents. And Italians can't continually think they were the descendants of ancient Romans. In the the time between the fall of Rome and the foundation of the Italian kingdom, hundreds of peoples settled in Italy. But it's not the topic I wanted to discuss about. I support the Italian names nevertheless, but only there, where they make sense - and I conceive the historical ones, not those invented. I read that you live in Bolzano/Bozen. If you travelled once the whole province, you would have surely seen that this land will never be Italy. You can erase all German names, you can put up a political border between them and their native country, you can force the native South Tyroleans to speak Italian as in the past, but it will never hit the goal. I know Italians would like to continue their "irredentismo" (that I totally support), but it excludes regions where there were never Italians. And this I say not as a fanatic or a supporter of some ideas (I'm absolutely impartial and open to every opinion), but - always remember - I speak to you as a friend. Sometimes the mood of a person writing a text seems not always clear. So, go on with your work, remembering my words. You know, just my opinion :-) Bye! --eo.hanns, 2007-08-05