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Hi Abecedare, Hello. This is Professor Anil Aggrawal. I feel truly honored reading your limerick. How can I get in touch with you through email? My Emails are dr_anil@hotmail.com

and

anil@anilaggrawal.com

Hoping to hear from you. Kind regards Anil Aggrawal — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anil1956 (talk • contribs) 14:49, August 2, 2007 (UTC)

Comment from Jaipurschool

Leaving Misplaced Pages

Please help me opt out of Misplaced Pages. I don't think I can be part of this group and its policies.

Regards.

Umesh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaipurschool (talk • contribs)

Geology of solar terrestrial planets

Hi Abecedare, I created an article on Geology of solar terrestrial planets on 4th August 2007. Can you please do a bit review and tell me what all can i do in order to improve it and further pass it on for FAC. thanks, (if you wish to reply on your talk page then do inform me also) Sushant gupta 12:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Removing flag icons

Hi Abecedare, If you do get around to removing flags from places of birth and death, I suggest adding a hidden comment to the infobox. I've been doing this so new editors don't just keep adding them back. You can see how I did it at Mahatma Gandhi, in the edit view, where I added (inside comment tags), just above the place of birth, "Do not add flag icons to place of birth/death, per Misplaced Pages:Don't overuse flags". There may be a better way of saying it, but that fits on one line. Cheers, ॐ Priyanath talk 04:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the idea! I don't plan an organized search-and-remove spree but will remove flags accompanying places of birth/death from articles that I run across; hopefully every bit will help. Regards. Abecedare 04:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Moving 'Maithili Brahmins'

Thanks for your well meaning advices. The article 'Maithili Brahmins' had two defects (1) its title was totally wrong, Maithili is the name of a language and not that of any branch of Brahmanas;(2) the matter within this article had almost nothing to do with the aims for which Misplaced Pages has been founded, and acted as an advertisement to a matrimonial website. Yet I have retained the link to such web sites and I also retained some of earlier matter in a changed language (because in the earlier article sentences from a website were copied verbatim without copyright permission, for which I received a warning from bot after I copied it to the new article).

In future, I will either use 'move' command or ask you to help in similar situations.

I have started a project of providing well sourced information about each branch of Brāhamana (esp. gotras &c) one by one, because all this matter will be untoward in a single atricle which already exists ('Brahmin gotra system').

While editing a talk page,the tilde for signing my name just gives my name and time, but does not give the link to my user page, for which I have to type manually. But this tilde works well in the main article. Can you help me in fixing this bug? Vinay Jha 11:07, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Vinay, there is no objection to the moving of the article itself, just the way it was done; since a cut-n-paste move breaks the article history and anyone looking at the list of contributors will think that you have contributed all the content in the current version (that is the reason the bot suspected you were responsible for the copyright violation). To be clear, I fully know that that was not your intention and making such unintentional errors is part of learning one's way around wikipedia. You can post a message at WP:SPLICE explaining the issue and an admin will help merge the article-histories to comply with the GFDL legal requirement. As the comment I posted on your talk-page said, you can use the "move" button for future moves; also in general it is a good idea to post a comment on the article talk page a couple of days before moving an article, so that other editors have a chance to speak up, if they have any objections.

I am not sure, why your signature is not working properly. You can post a question at the Misplaced Pages:Help desk and see if someone knows the answer. Hope that helps. Happy editing. Abecedare 11:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Rgveda Dating Controversy

DAB has resorted to abuses for others more than any other editor. See Talk:Utpala where he abused me without any provocation. See Talk:Rgveda (esp. Give a balanced account of Rgvedic dating), where instead of answering any of the points raised by me about his edits, he labelled fictious charges against me, as he did in Surya Siddhanta. Is Misplaced Pages his personal property ? Differences must happen in democracies, but DAB does not tolerate dissension and starts abusing even his elders. My students are heads of departments but I can remain in Wiki only if I try to get accustomed to abuses. I merely wanted to inform you; nothing is going to happen because I can withstand greater abuses. I am not a Hindutva fanatic, but DAB deliberately wants to portray me like that, because he has no answer to my questions and at most can cite "mainstream" which often means dictatorship of one POV. If you discuss Newton's or Einsteins's theories, can you not enlist exceptions and shortcomings, if any, in those theories? Will it make you a Hindutva fanatic? I raised technical points and DAB replied like a fighter : who is a fanatic in fact ? --Vinay Jha 22:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Vinay, I respect the knowledge of primary Sanskrit texts that you have demonstrated; I also respect the knowledge of Dab in this field and his contribution in writing and maintaining numerous related wikipedia pages - so I sincerely hope that you two (and others) will be able to work out any content dispute amicably without personalizing the debate. If not, you could consider using one of wikipedia's dispute resolution processes.

As for the particular point of contention viz. dating the Rigveda : I haven't read through the discussion in detail so I'll only make the general observation that, as a tertiary source, wikipedia simply presents the mainstream point(s)of view as reflected by reputable secondary sources - irrespective of whether they are true or false. So even if one discovers an obvious flaw in Einstein's/Newton's work, wikipedia is not the place to point it out; on the other hand if reputable physicists have published research about the flaw in peer-reviewed physics journals, of course wikipedia should quote that.

Finally, if you think that your real-world academic credentials will help you edit wikipedia more effectively, you can have your credentials verified - barring that it is likely that advertising your student's achievements, experience or conference contributions will result in some editors taking your words less seriously. I point this out not to belittle your scholarship, but only because as a new editor here you may not yet be familiar with the wikipedia culture and some past controversies. Regards. Abecedare 01:14, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I already said nothing will happen because I can tolerate greater abuses. I have consistently kept a safe distance from articles which I found DAB was interested in. I am keeping away from Rgveda article too, because once I tried to rectify DAB's errors in a polite way, without touching his errors I added the correct etymology, which he deleted and said that this article was not a place for etymology, but gave a wrong etymology himself, which he has now corrected when I used his own language against him. Unless I quarrel with him, he will never listen, and quarrelling is not in my nature. I am a lifelong celibate, and the whole world is my family. DAB is a fine editor. But he has a big mind and a lashing tongue (not for everyone). In how many fields can Jimbo Wales accept my credentials? I am planning to add a small section in precession (astronomy) article because many readers are demanding an explanation of precession formulae, at least in nutshell, but the editors say that the formuls runs into 19 pages. It is not true. I can manage it in short, citing books by Nobel laureates in physics, in which Newtonian equations can be shown as well as their shortcomings (which you say should not be displayed in Wiki), because without displaing this defect in Newton, Einstein's contribution to precession formula cannot be shown, and I can show all this in one or two para in a very simple language. Then, Jimbo Wales will ask me to work in physics and leave Rgveda to DAB. It is not a solution, because Rgveda is like hieroglyphs to DAB. The article on Rgveda mentions everything (which is also useful) excepting the main ideas expressed by the text. If I cannot put substance in such articles, what is the use of wasting my time in Wiki ? I believe I can work with DAB in spite of differences provided he behaves in a civilised manner. If a full list of abuses he has unilaterally hurled at others is compiled, it will almost equal his net contribution to main articles. DAB's knowledge of Indology is superficial and totally based on secondary sources. Secondary sources are of contradictory types, and unless you have an access to primary sources you cannot decide which secondary source is more reliable. He is cipher in descripive and historial linguistics too, but always cites it while dating Vedic texts. I have recently reviewed a debate between M.Witzel and David Frawley, and found Witzel to be using same sour language which DAB uses ( http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/op/2002/06/25/stories/2002062500030200.htm and http://www.voi.org/indology/ReplytoWitzel.html ). Frawley may represent non-academic viewpoint and perhaps maybe wrong at certain points, but he did not use a single abuse, unlike Witzel. Witzel started with a personal attack. It is not accidental that DAB is a blind follower of Witzel, even in manners. All issues in the world can be solved if you accept others to be equals, as far as civility is concerned. For some persons, fear is the mother of morality. Let me see whether I can work for Wiki or not. I will not complain for an arbitration &c. Thanks again for your kindness, which is a rare commodity in Wiki. -Vinay Jha 02:10, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Vinay, It is better to discuss these content issues on the talk pages of relevant articles. Since I am not involved the pages you write bout, discussing it with me unfortunately will not be of much use, although if it helps you let off some steam that is fine with me. :-)

A couple of points of note:

• I never intended to say that one should not criticise Newtonian or relativistic mechanics on wikipedia, and apologize if that is what my comments sounded like! To be clear such discussion is warranted if and only if there are published reputable sources on the particular topic; but if someone discovers a new flaw in either systems, wikipedia is not the place to demonstrate that discovery.
• Secondary sources are the of much greater value on wikipedia than primary sources, so if one needs to refer to primary sources to make a point (i.e. there are no secondary published sources available for the purpose), the content is not appropriate for wikipedia. In this aspect an encyclopedia like wikipedia differs markedly from a peer-reviewed journal, as I have discussed with you before.

A final point: wikipedia editing is a voluntary activity that we all undertake for the enjoyment and satisfaction in building this knowledge source. So I hope you will rediscover the pleasure of editing here and brush aside the interpersonal conflicts that arise sometimes in the process. Regards and happy editing. Abecedare 02:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for wasting your time, and thanks for your suggestions. -Vinay Jha 05:45, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

No apologies necessary. I hope that this content dispute is resolved soon and amicably. Regards. Abecedare 06:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Misleading Statements

Please contain your hostility towards other contributers on Misplaced Pages. I have shown 2 sources, and not engaged in anything. Please stop being bias, and showing no proper sources for your claims, and supporting folwer and folwer when he has reverted and keeps changing his argument. We can get an independent arbitrator to see if the quote has relevance. Please conduct yourself with more maturity when handling situations and don't lets your personal feelings come in the ways of facts. Cosmos416 01:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

This is no personal attack, and as anyone can tell you are only getting upset because I have shown proper sources, and ask for an arbitrator, since you and folwer are unwilling to listen, and revert without reading the SOURCES, your attitude is making Misplaced Pages unhealthy. Cosmos416 01:37, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Stop with this ganging up with folwer. You guys are trying to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Everyday You, Folwer, and I can Revert back and forth until you guys are willing to settle this. Cosmos416 02:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Renaming an article : Need your help

One editor has suggested renaming the article 'Indian astronomy' and I find his points genuine. Pleasse see the points in Talk:Jyotisha under 'Jyotisha and Astronomy' and under 'Article name proposal' and give your suggestions. -Vinay Jha 06:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Religious scriptures

Interesting idea, adding religious scriptures as primary sources. Are you talking about the Dead Sea scrolls or the King James Bible? – Dreadstar † 06:21, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Both. Along with Vedas, Koran etc; perhaps even the writings of Sayana and Thomas Aquinas etc. I would interpret the term expansively to cover almost any historical document whose interpretation is the subject of innumerable PhD thesis and scholarly debates and thus not an appropriate subject for anonymous wikipedians to analyze (of course, selective quoting to simply state what the document says is appropriate, when accompanied by analysis by secondary sources).

Also see earlier discussion, which unfortunately I never pursued to actual implementation. Abecedare 06:33, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Very interesting stuff. My first thought is that most of the religious documents available today, like the Christian Bible, aren't primary sources but secondary sources...if not tertiary. But man, I can only imagine the arguments around that one! That's a touchier subject than ID/Creationism...another 'stay far, far away from" for me...;) – Dreadstar † 08:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit conflicts, misinterpretations

AB, I am not here for any edit conflict. I just felt it is necessary to check if everything is put fine. For the last 3 days from what I'm seeing it is very clear that not everything is cited as it is. The meaning of what's written and, what's quoted is different. I do know things are not deliberately done. But, errors need to be rectified. If you are finding my ways wrong, you can let me know the right methods. BalanceRestored 06:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC) This template must be substituted, see Template:Smile for instructions

BR, unfortunately my past experience has been that my attempts at explaining the "right method" to you has not been fruitful, which undoubtedly is partially my shortcoming as a coach. My frank opinion is that that your recent "challenges" to the second and third sentence of the Vedas article, though probably well-intentioned, show an ignorance of both the subject matter and wikipedia policies; but I know that you are not going to simply take my word for it and stop. Since you currently are an adoptee, I would recommend instead that you ask your mentor (or any "trusted" editor) for advice on the policy and subject matter. Abecedare 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I am surely using your tools, I think I do have certain drawbacks understanding certain English wordings, as they are tricky. Certain times I find things different from what's written and what's cited. So, I better try asking neutral people, may be you are right about the same. I respect your view points but again, not always you should be correct. And, not always you too, should have been taught the right. Well, I am a human, I could have blocks understanding things.BalanceRestored 07:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

BR, If you'll forgive me offering unsolicited advice, my simple suggestion to you would be to take a week off and spend the time reading some standard text on the subject of Hinduism/Vedas to get a good basic understanding of the overall field, rather than argue on the basis of snippets and individual (context-less) sentences in google books. Flood (1996), Flood(2003) or Michaels (2004) would be ideal to start with (or read Radhakrishnana's Indian Philosophy Volume 1, if you are partial to an Indian author). If you don't want to buy/borrow them you can even read Muller (2004) or Muir (1861) (also see other volumes listed at John Muir), which you can obtain complete copies of from Google books; although you should be aware that the last two are pretty old and some will argue scholarly but "unenlightened" by present day norms. (I am just listing texts that I am personally knowledgeable about and that are cited on Vedas; there may be other equally good books too).

Once you are able to discuss matters from a position of knowledge rather than from ignorance (e.g., "we don't know the truth/everything" or "you may be wrong" ) you will be taken much more seriously on wikipedia. Cheers. Abecedare 08:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)