| Revision as of 17:20, 15 June 2005 editBalcer (talk | contribs)12,675 edits →English on Polish Collaboration← Previous edit | Revision as of 02:11, 16 June 2005 edit undoHalibutt (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers34,067 edits →Black BookNext edit → | ||
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| Hey no problem! We ] alums have to stick together! --]/] 07:15, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) | Hey no problem! We ] alums have to stick together! --]/] 07:15, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) | ||
| ::Seriously, you could have always ask. I'm sure pretty everyone here would offer you a decent translation in not time just. As to the discussions in non-English... Seriously, I don't see the point in talking in English when the whole point is to communicate quickly and efficiently (and English is not the best language to do that). If you believe that the comments in our private namespace should concern you then you can always ask for their translation. However, there's no rule forcing us to talk in English exclusively, just like there's no rule forcing the admins to respond to the people they block or forcing all decisions to be discussed in WP and not via external means (mail, IRC & mailing list). Given all that, our talk pages are much more accessible then admins' mailboxes. You can always ask for translation. And all Wikipedians can contribute, they can join the discussion at any time and request the translation be provided. If you believe that such discussions in Polish are ''only breeding animosity and distrust'', then there is a serious problem with your attitude and not with the discussions themselves. Why exactly do you assume bad will? | |||
| ::As to the whole BB business, I still believe that such a page is needed. Too many a time have I heard such views promoted here on WP and nothing happened. You can easliy assume bad faith or nationalism of a Pole and noone will ever react. If you said the same of a person, say, from Germany or Israel or UK, the reaction of the community would be imminent. Unfortunately, listing all such cases in RfC is not a good option either, but if the community wants that then it's fine with me. BTW, just take a look at my user page and the list of offenses listed there. Some of these were used by wikipedia admins, other by anon users. Perhaps I'll dig out the list of people who have ever offended me on WP basing solely on my nationality and list them all to RfC. Neither the WP would benefit from it nor would it make them reconsider their views (in fact it would only support the thesis that ''Poles overreact''...), but if people insist that is the best option... | |||
| ::As to your presence on the BB, I believe that you shouldn't have been listed there and that Witkacy killed the project by using it to his own aims rather than to the good of the community. The range of your behaviour included personal remarks, assumptions of bad will, lack of cooperativeness and abuse of admin privileges, but certainly not anti-polonism. ]] 02:11, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| =="Moral fortitude"== | =="Moral fortitude"== | ||
Revision as of 02:11, 16 June 2005
Archives
- Archive I – User talk:Nohat/archive 2005-02-22
- Archive II – User talk:Nohat/archive 2005-06-12
Black Book
Nohat, why did you delete that page? Was it listed on vfd? It was a project page and I'm sure it should be there. Whether your remarks on Talk:Kiev are biased or not is another issue, but I believe that you should've at least consulted the author of that project before you deleted it. Please be so kind as to explain why was the page deleted. Halibutt 23:18, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
- Also, I decided to start that archive to avoid listing all of the users involved on RfC or any other page. I simply wanted to keep the things civil and canalized, without having to resort to all the painful dispute resolution process, accusations and so on. Your reaction was certainly not what I expected. Halibutt 23:21, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
- A "Black Book" which exists solely to vilify users who you disagree with consistutes personal attacks. The page was deleted per Misplaced Pages:Remove personal attacks. If you have a problem with a user's behavior, the proper course of action is to list that user on Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment. Compiling a list of users who have said things you disagree with, particularly if that list is not kept in user space, and demanding they apologize and rescind their comments in some kind of kangaroo court is totally unacceptable. The dispute resolution process exists for a reason, and creating an end-run around it is neither appropriate nor warranted. Nohat 23:25, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Nohat, please, calm down. Nobody has nothing against you and nobody is demanding anything from you. We're all friends here. Witkacy noted that that you assumed those who oppose you are nationalists, which in where I live is rather a serious offence. Personally I'm pretty sure you meant nothing wrong, but still, your remarks could be treated as biased.
- Anyway, do you really believe that starting an ArbCom or RfC every time someone assumes bad faith is a good idea? That's what I would call escalation of the conflict. And that's what we're trying to avoid. Of course, if you insist Witkacy could do that, but perhaps there is a way to make you cooperate? Halibutt 04:27, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
- I don't think I have done anything wrong, and I don't believe this situation merits further comment by any of the parties involved. I'm not the one who created a "black book" for publically harassing anyone who says something that might be construed as insulting to Poles. That's escalation of conflict.
- As for the issue at question, don't expect me to rescind any statements I made about nationalism, because that's exactly what was going on at the Kiev article. I called Witkacy on his disingenuousness and it smarted. I see no need to make concessions for his wounded pride. Hopefully next time everyone will follow the Misplaced Pages:Don't disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point guidelines, as I suggested previously.
- As for RfC, I heartily encourage Witkacy or anyone else to start one against me. Then it will become apparent to everyone that this whole thing is a farce. Nohat 05:01, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hey no problem! We Fake Ivy alums have to stick together! --Angr/tɔk tə mi 07:15, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Seriously, you could have always ask. I'm sure pretty everyone here would offer you a decent translation in not time just. As to the discussions in non-English... Seriously, I don't see the point in talking in English when the whole point is to communicate quickly and efficiently (and English is not the best language to do that). If you believe that the comments in our private namespace should concern you then you can always ask for their translation. However, there's no rule forcing us to talk in English exclusively, just like there's no rule forcing the admins to respond to the people they block or forcing all decisions to be discussed in WP and not via external means (mail, IRC & mailing list). Given all that, our talk pages are much more accessible then admins' mailboxes. You can always ask for translation. And all Wikipedians can contribute, they can join the discussion at any time and request the translation be provided. If you believe that such discussions in Polish are only breeding animosity and distrust, then there is a serious problem with your attitude and not with the discussions themselves. Why exactly do you assume bad will?
- As to the whole BB business, I still believe that such a page is needed. Too many a time have I heard such views promoted here on WP and nothing happened. You can easliy assume bad faith or nationalism of a Pole and noone will ever react. If you said the same of a person, say, from Germany or Israel or UK, the reaction of the community would be imminent. Unfortunately, listing all such cases in RfC is not a good option either, but if the community wants that then it's fine with me. BTW, just take a look at my user page and the list of offenses listed there. Some of these were used by wikipedia admins, other by anon users. Perhaps I'll dig out the list of people who have ever offended me on WP basing solely on my nationality and list them all to RfC. Neither the WP would benefit from it nor would it make them reconsider their views (in fact it would only support the thesis that Poles overreact...), but if people insist that is the best option...
- As to your presence on the BB, I believe that you shouldn't have been listed there and that Witkacy killed the project by using it to his own aims rather than to the good of the community. The range of your behaviour included personal remarks, assumptions of bad will, lack of cooperativeness and abuse of admin privileges, but certainly not anti-polonism. Halibutt 02:11, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
"Moral fortitude"
You're welcome. Sorry, that just made me laugh. :) RickK 05:15, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
Icelandic Wikipeda logo
Hi, if you could upload a new logo for the Icelandic Misplaced Pages where the subtext reads Frjálsa alfræðiritið rather than the current Frjálsa alfræðiorðabókin that would be great, also, the current logo is a bit too high up, there's a space between the top of the image and the start of the globe but there isn't for the current is. logo.
See meta:Wikipedia_logo_in_each_language#Needing_attention —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 17:33, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
English on Polish Collaboration
I've been lobbying for English for several days now and I've had some success. I appreciate your intent, and I ment no malice in my comment on the talk page. So far Piotrus and SylwiaS have started using English on the board, and I'm sure others will join soon.- JCarriker 19:03, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you for your efforts. There seems to have been some kind of misunderstanding that the Polish Wikipedians' notice board is somehow the private domain of Polish Wikipedians. I hope that we can get all the discussions not in English translated eventually. Nohat 19:40, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)