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Cuddlyable3 07:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

FPC

Your animation Image:Kochsim.gif has been nominated for Featured Picture. Beacause it has recieved some complaints over size and aliasing, I wonder if you might be able to upload a larger, anti-aliased version. It certatinly is interesting, and I would love to see a better version. J Are you green? 21:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I have added notes to the image description that may interest you.Cuddlyable3 19:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

It really is an interesting illustration. Do you think that you could redo it as, perhaps, a 400 by 200 pixel animation in greyscale with antialiasing? I love the idea, and I would absolutely support a newer version. J Are you green? 20:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Increasing the pixel resolution is easy and just makes the file bigger. Rendering in a greyscale however would need some arbitrary process which goes beyond what the Koch curve defines. Aliasing is the result of sampling in space or time (see my image description notes) so there are several possible sources to consider. Strictly speaking, we should not see a 2-D line at all, nor the structure of the fully developed Koch curve. For a beautiful image, search out (Google) the sphereflake! Cuddlyable3 08:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

That's OK - I just thought it might have a chance if you could do that. J Are you green? 00:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

To do anti-aliasing, just render it 3x as big as the final image, and shrink it down (e.g. with bi-cubic). Of course to do "perfect" anti-aliasing you'd need an infinitely large initial rendering, but it doesn't need to be perfect. A separate comment, there's too much white space as the bottom. —Pengo 15:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you have the means to do this and see the result? The code to draw the Koch curve is rather simple and I can help you with that if you wish. However you could also take the existing image (or just one frame of it) and reduce its size to 67 x 34 pixels; that simple exercise might save you some time and possible disapointment. As to the white space, you are right that it could be reduced. Cuddlyable3 19:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I reduced one frame - looks tiny but antialiased to me... If you upoload a new version of the Koch curve that is identical to this one except that it is rendered at, perhaps, 900 by 450 pixels, I can shrink it down for you to 300 by 150 pixels and get antialiasing as a side-effect, as Pengo suggested. J Are you green? 20:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

J, please post your reduced frame here if you can, so we can all see it. Since the object is scaling invariant we don't need to push especially large files through the Wiki server, do we?

I note that the antialiasing process Pengo describes if done on a 2-colour (monochrome) image generates a 16-colour (greyscale) image. This is because one filters by taking 3x3 blocks of pixels, using 3 different coefficients for center, mid-side and corner.

However I think a quest for an "antialiased" Koch curve by increasing pixel resolution will only lead to huge image files (slow to load) and no new aesthetic delight, until one has magnified it so much that the finite iteration limit of the curve computation becomes visible. At that stage you are just seeing a monochrome line figure, which is where it all started. Cuddlyable3 07:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

OK; here you go. It obviously is tiny, which is why I am asking you to render the original at 900 by 450 pixels. As for file size, relax. Your GIF is currently 4 KB; I cannot see a 900 by 450 version being more than 85 KB, still a really small file. If you upload a large verision over the current one, I'll downsample it for you. J Are you green? 20:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and as for the resolution and limitations, its not really how much deatil is really there (especially for something like this where antialiasing will destroy that ultrafine detail) as how easy it is on the eye. To be honest, a 200 by 100 pixel image looks tiny on my screen (about 2 by 4 cm). I really wouldn't mind the lack detail so much as to have a larger, anti-aliased image. By the way, downsampling probably will destroy any visible limitations of the "finite iteration limit," so I wouldn't worry about that too much. J Are you green? 20:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

OK; there you go J. Cuddlyable3 18:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

This is my first time ever working with an animation, so forgive me if I did anything stupid... but here is my version. J Are you green? 00:17, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

J, I was expecting you to reduce Kochsim2 33% as you did with the tiny image, which has grey pixels. Kochsim3 is reduced only 66% and, from the looks of it, is still 2-colour (it's hard to see at the moment as I am on an office computer. I find that I can freeze the frame by jiggling energetically with the mouse!).Cuddlyable3 08:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I reduced it to 66 % because it had a sufficient enough anti-aliasing effect for me. It is four shades of grey. I can upload one reduced to 300 pixels if you wish, but adding more shades of grey makes my computer play the animation too slowly. J Are you green? 20:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I have replaced the big image with one that A) shows only the points along the finite Koch curve that I have been using in these animations, without connecting them with straight lines, and B) has a finer time resolution. I find it interesting that A) the thinning out of points density during the zoom can always be hidden by storing a higher iterated curve. (Mine has 4097 points which was adequate for the original 200x100 pixel illustration.) B) The subjective effect of the continuous zoom is not linear! We have self-similarity in shape but I think we need the time scale (or the zoom ratios) to be exponential to get a smooth zoom. Cuddlyable3 10:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

WikipedianProlific's RfA

Hello. I see that you have the habit of deleting from this talk page anything that could be seen as critical of your behavior here so I don't expect that this paragraph will last too long. But your edits on WikipedianProlific's RfA are way out of line and I would kindly request you to stop editing his RfA until you can do so in a constructive way. You have been warned previously by numerous editors about your chronic incivility and I sure hope you can learn how to treat fellow editors with the respect they deserve. Best, Pascal.Tesson 22:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)