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Revision as of 06:36, 30 August 2007 view sourceSeraphimblade (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators46,191 edits →[] Remedy: Also need clarification on time limits.← Previous edit Revision as of 07:00, 30 August 2007 view source YellowMonkey (talk | contribs)86,443 edits →Bharatveer: fxNext edit →
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*{{admin|Moreschi}} *{{admin|Moreschi}}
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; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request ; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
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If this is the way Bharatveer regularly acts throughout Misplaced Pages, as Moreschi's evidence suggests, then I agree that it is high time for his conduct to addressed in a binding & authoritative investigation by the ArbCom. Regards, ] 15:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC) If this is the way Bharatveer regularly acts throughout Misplaced Pages, as Moreschi's evidence suggests, then I agree that it is high time for his conduct to addressed in a binding & authoritative investigation by the ArbCom. Regards, ] 15:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


==== Statement by Ragib (uninvolved) ==== ==== Statement by Ragib ====
I ran into Bharatveer's unexplained revert spree in many articles. Most of the time, he only reverts with a summary like "rv", "rv to previous version" etc, without bothering to discuss anything in the article talk pages. Over the last two years, he has consistently continued this. Cleverly evading 3RR blocks by making 2 or 3 reverts per day, he has disrupted many articles including ] (where he demands links to the article ] despite the fact India didn't exist as a nation back then), ] etc. I ran into Bharatveer's unexplained revert spree in many articles. Most of the time, he only reverts with a summary like "rv", "rv to previous version" etc, without bothering to discuss anything in the article talk pages. Over the last two years, he has consistently continued this. Cleverly evading 3RR blocks by making 2 or 3 reverts per day, he has disrupted many articles including ] (where he demands links to the article ] despite the fact India didn't exist as a nation back then), ] etc.


Since this is a behavior pattern, and not an isolated incident, I'd request the arbitrators (sans blnguyen) to take a look into this for the sake of Misplaced Pages. --] 17:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Since this is a behavior pattern, and not an isolated incident, I'd request the arbitrators (sans blnguyen) to take a look into this for the sake of Misplaced Pages. --] 17:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:So you who have been in content dispute with BV is "uninvolved" while I who have not are "involved"? ''']''' ('']'') 07:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


==== Clerk notes ==== ==== Clerk notes ====
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Revision as of 07:00, 30 August 2007

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A request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution for conduct disputes on Misplaced Pages. The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and review previous decisions. The entire process is governed by the arbitration policy. For information about requesting arbitration, and how cases are accepted and dealt with, please see guide to arbitration.

To request enforcement of previous Arbitration decisions or discretionary sanctions, please do not open a new Arbitration case. Instead, please submit your request to /Requests/Enforcement.

This page transcludes from /Case, /Clarification and Amendment, /Motions, and /Enforcement.

Please make your request in the appropriate section:

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Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Palestine-Israel articles 5 (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 21 Dec 2024 11 Jan 2025
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Clarification and Amendment requests

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

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Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/How-to

Current requests

Foxy Brown

Initiated by The Gnome at 10:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by The Gnome

The Date of Birth of the artist Foxy Brown is been changed back and forth. The artist claims in her MySpace Account that she was born in 1979. There is nothing else substantiating that claim. On the other hand, a police report states that she was born 6 September 1978. Parties 2 and 3, among other anonymous users, have been reverting the date back to the one claimed by the artist, despite strong/unique evidence to the contrary. Repeated efforts to elicit a reasoning from those parties have failed. (Which is why their opinion is not represented here.) I submit my request to fix the artist's DoB as indicated by the police record for arbitration and possible blocking of what appears to be a senseless edit war.

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/2/0/0)

  • Decline, premature; please attempt the preliminary methods of dispute resolution before bringing this here. Kirill 12:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Reject Premature and appears to be mostly a content dispute. Involve more members of the community and I think you can resolve this content dispute. If there are user conduct issues then try to solve by getting help from an uninvolved third party. If that fails then do an user conduct RFC. FloNight♥♥♥ 19:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley

Initiated by Mofb at 11:43, 28 August 2007

regarding

Involved parties

Statement by the subject

The subject is the maker of the request. He and others have repeatedly tried to prevent posting of libelous material in a section entitled "philosophical and/or political views" which has been inserted into his biographical entry. At present, for instance, there is a reference to an article by George Monbiot, but no reference to the strongly-worded correction which the newspaper in question was compelled to print the following day. The subject has contacted the complaints team, and has given warnings that libel proceedings will follow if the libelous material continues to be posted. All attempts to prevent the libels, including a recent but now-withdrawn full protection of the page, have been unsuccessful. Balancing material is repeatedly removed, and hostile material inserted, to create a false, unfair, and detrimental impression of the subject's competence.

To settle this matter, and to prevent future libels, I should be grateful if my biographical entry were deleted altogether from Misplaced Pages. Accurate biographical entries are available in Who's Who, Debrett's People of Today, etc., so the Misplaced Pages entry is not needed. I am mortally ill and do not want my reputation degraded so unfairly at the close of my life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mofb (talk • contribs)

Comment by uninvolved Sam Blacketer

See Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley and its talk page. The reference above to a "strongly-worded correction which the newspaper .. was compelled to print" in fact refers to Christopher Monckton's own reply, which was printed in The Guardian on page 37 on 15 November, 2006; the above gives the incorrect impression that it was a newspaper correction rather than a 'right to reply' which The Guardian did not endorse. The piece was printed in a column called "The Response" which is described by the paper in the following terms: "The Response column offers those who have been written about in the Guardian an opportunity to reply". Sam Blacketer 11:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment by ChrisO

I've been watching this article for some time following its appearance on WP:BLPN and WP:AN/I in June this year. This request for arbitration seems extremely premature and this is fundamentally a content dispute, therefore outwith the remit of the Arbitration Committee. The history of the article has seen an anonymous editor (presumably User:Mofb?) repeatedly adding contentious unsourced material (including a copy-and-paste of an entire newspaper article) and being reverted by other editors. However, the anonymous editor has made no use of dispute resolution, not even using the article's talk page. Nor has he even said which content he considers to be libellous, as far as I know. This lack of discussion or specificity has obviously made it rather difficult for the article's editors to resolve disputes. Arbitration does not seem to me to be the best way to resolve this issue. -- ChrisO 18:59, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/2/0/0)

Bharatveer

Initiated by Moreschi at 14:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
Given the nature of request, mediation is not really relevant: this is a long-term behaviour pattern, not a dispute over one single article, or even a set of articles. User has been warned ad nauseam about his conduct, and given his block log he must surely be aware of problems. I doubt an RFC would accomplish anything. Moreschi 10:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Moreschi

I'm coming to this from what's virtually an external perspective - one brush with this user at Out of India theory excepted.

Bharatveer (talk · contribs) has a long history of disruption of Misplaced Pages, particularly on India-related articles, and Hindutva-related ones in particular. He's been blocked 5 times for 3RR violations, most recently by myself a couple of days ago. To a certain extent, however, the 3RR blocks serve to hide a massive amount of edit-warring - a review of his contributions has shown that in some weeks over half his edits are reverts. This is in addition to persistent incivility and personal attacks, which continue to this current date. User:Moreschi/Bharatveer documents some of the problems. Even when not violating 3RR, he will simply not leave the edit-warring alone. I am asking the arbitration committee either to consider supervised editing and revert limitation, or a ban for a year. Moreschi 14:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Note: oh, almost forget: I would request that Blnguyen recuse or not participate. Moreschi 16:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Bakasuprman

Moreschi has already been criticized for poor admin judgment for an illegitimate block of myself in June, undone with the support of legitimate admins in the community. The real issue is that he is irreconcilably biased against the political viewpoint he supposed Bharatveer to espouse. The fact that no RFC/mediation has been brought is another signal that this is a witchhuny against bharatveer. I urge arbcom to reject this case.

Statement by The Behnam

I've only run into Bharatveer at the Out of India page, where he revert warred a whitewashed version of page several times. In no way did he participate in the talk page discussion, and some of his edit summaries were rather offensive. For example, in response to a revert by myself or others with a summary like 'rv - whitewashing', Bharatveer would undo this with 'rv - "white" washing'. I really don't appreciate such racial remarks, especially when applied without justification to reverts we made in good faith (to prevent whitewashing of a fringe theory). The actual content dispute aside, bringing 'race' into the equation when it shouldn't matter is very detrimental to the collaborative process.

If this is the way Bharatveer regularly acts throughout Misplaced Pages, as Moreschi's evidence suggests, then I agree that it is high time for his conduct to addressed in a binding & authoritative investigation by the ArbCom. Regards, The Behnam 15:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Ragib

I ran into Bharatveer's unexplained revert spree in many articles. Most of the time, he only reverts with a summary like "rv", "rv to previous version" etc, without bothering to discuss anything in the article talk pages. Over the last two years, he has consistently continued this. Cleverly evading 3RR blocks by making 2 or 3 reverts per day, he has disrupted many articles including Jagadish Chandra Bose (where he demands links to the article Republic of India despite the fact India didn't exist as a nation back then), Rabindranath Tagore etc.

Since this is a behavior pattern, and not an isolated incident, I'd request the arbitrators (sans blnguyen) to take a look into this for the sake of Misplaced Pages. --Ragib 17:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

So you who have been in content dispute with BV is "uninvolved" while I who have not are "involved"? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Clerk notes

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/0/0/0)

User:Vintagekits

Initiated by User:SqueakBox at 21:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

I have informed all mentioned parties of the request

SirFozzie, who added User:Conypiece, notified Conypiece here of being added as an involved party

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

SirFozzie offers unblock conditions

Statement by User:SqueakBox

I am not directly involved in the dispute but as nobody has so far brought this case to arbcom I am going to be bold. VK was recently indefinitely blocked in a case that has brought up many strong feelings from editors who believe this block is both wrong and partial given that this case involves various parties editing two subject areas, Irish republicanism and the British nobility. There have been many arguments and blocks and nastiness on both sides and IMO the arbcom needs to pass judgement on the case and take whatever remedies it feels necessary, SqueakBox 21:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by User:Vintagekits

Statement by retired User:Gold_heart

Before I begin, I would like to draw attention to the sterling work carried out by the Editors, Admins, and the Arbitrators of Misplaced Pages. It has been a pleasure to work with the many who have given their time, dedication and knowledge to this great world endeavour, and I am certain that all good people here will bid them success. Duty has now called on the Arbitration Committee to decide on matters of such crucial importance, so important indeed that the solution could fundamentally change some of the workings of Misplaced Pages into the future. Again we sit here at this moment in time, and ask the Arbitrators to perform that task, on our behalf.

Vintagekits (Vk), a bright, intelligent editor with over 12,000 edits to his credit was last month, thrown a “buoy made of lead” , and was told to swim, i.e. the “SirFozzie parameters”,. He had on many occasion been the recipient of the infamous ”argumentum ad hominem” tactic, that regressive style of personal attack that causes so much anger, and anguish on Misplaced Pages. No doubt, Vk became quite discomposed on at least one occasion as a consequence of these ongoing attacks, however I must also give him empyreal recognition and credit for the many many times he showed exemplary calm, dignity and restraint under the barrage of extreme provocation. Though the arguement of ”post hoc ergo propter hoc” (it happened after, so it was caused by), can quite correctly be reasoned for here, nevertheless it cannot be positively sustained as part of an overall solution in this particular instance, yet it can quite naturally assist for mitigation purposes. As has been noted, Vk had been goaded as a direct consequence of the stringent conditions recently imposed by the “SirFozzie parameters”. The relevant articles are usually Northern Ireland related, and doubtless, the long struggle there for civil rights and the resultant armed conflict is well known to many of us here at Misplaced Pages. This conflict goes way back to the Plantation of Ulster in the seventeenth century. With a political agreement now in place, and not everyone contented, there is the distinct possibility that some political agendas within Northern Ireland are entering a new phase here in cyberspace, via www.en.wikipedia.org. Consequently, differences of opinion have played a factor in the manner in which some of these articles are presented. There are a couple of handfuls of editors involved, chiefly from United Kingdom and to a much lesser extent from Ireland, who have clashed on occasion. But really this is very far from an edit-war, and relationships are overwhelmingly cordial most of the time. Nevertheless, with the “SirFozzie parameters” applied, Vk found himself with a Sword of Damocles dangling over his head, and this “sword” could only terminate with an inevitable fall, and accordingly it did. Can we afford to lose VK? In my opinion no. With over 12,000 edits, and rarely in big trouble, I argue for Vk to stay.

There is a solution in my mind, and may I offer it here. This would involve the nomination of a panel of ”3 wise Admins” to look after unforeseen events. I propose the nomination of the now familiar admins, SirFozzie and Alison, and one other admin, (but not Rockpocket as he is seeking a permanent block). Vk would be allowed his opinion on the establishment of the three, but not have the final say. Then in the event of a major transgression, and with the approval of at least 2 of the ”3 wise Admins”, Vk could be the subject of a punitive block for some hours, or at max a week. Any longer than a week’s block, an outside admin would be required to deliberate on the matter at hand. Ideally, these penalties would never need to be invoked. These measures would hopefully assist with the “conflict resolution”, and create a desirable outcome leading to the following. (1) Would remove the psychological pressure, and the feeling of victimhood away from Vk, thereby acting as a cushion, and leading to calmer editing. (2) Would also lead to greater respect, and caring among the Wikipedian community. (3) Would build confidence between the involved British and Irish editors. (4) Would send out the message that "mob rule" does not work on Misplaced Pages. (5) Would ensure a fairer system of jurisprudence, and not a continual “block threat” – This whole issue is so vitally important, because if Misplaced Pages loses editors like Vk, there will be another culprit, and another culprit, year after year, after year, thereby irreparably damaging the Misplaced Pages project. Can Misplaced Pages continually sustain this? I believe that it cannot.

By way of illustration, this running saga reminds me of Victor Hugo’s great novel, ”Les Misérables ”. An editor makes a faux pas, and is never to be left at peace, now pursued by Javert type characters, forever watching his every move, and ready to pounce for the least of infringements. Even Jean Valjean, Hugo’s hero, would have resigned to despair with the chivvy that Vk had to endure, I suspect.

To conclude, my suggestions could go some way to help repair this contravention. Following the passing of some time, things will settle down and all will be forgotten about. New editors will come on stream, and some will be looking for guidance, and who better to help them, but the old hands? I believe that this is the time to grasp the opportunities, not to forestall, and not leave them to wither unsung. .- User:Gold_heart17:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Extra Comment. Some weeks ago I retired from Misplaced Pages, and scrambled my password. I believe that this issue is important, and thus my reason for this one final interjection. I feel that rudeness is quite prevalent, and there are many many editors who sometimes and unnecessarily resort to thus, including some of the Admins. In most cases it can add to the cut and thrust of discourse, and is quite easily forgiven, and at other times it can get out of hand. And that applies to many of us.- User:Gold_heart17:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by User:Rockpocket

As far as I recall my first major involvement in an administrative capacity was when another editor approached me for assistance with some convincing evidence that Vintagekuts was recruiting meatpuppets off-wiki. The clearly stated purpose of this was to votestack on Afds. This editor expressed to me that he would rather remain anonymous for fear of threats of retribution from Vk (with time this precaution came sharply unto focus). I offered to present the evidence on his behalf. The evidence can be viewed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Vintagekits and Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Vintagekits. The latter report was closed by Will Beback (talk · contribs) with the conclusion "it is clear to me that these accounts are either sock puppets of VK or are meat puppets controlled by him. I will block these accounts indefinitely. VK has been blocked seven times since January, and also has a proven history of using sockpuppet accounts." An ANI discussion on what action to take (Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive262#Vintagekits, redux) generated consensus on a one week block followed by civility parole by SirFozzie (talk · contribs). This had limited success; SirFozzie blocked Vk for further "WP:CIVIL violations" within a month and I issued several warnings, including one for a typical attack (Note: Vk appears to think that the swapping of, or addition of letters disguises his regular use of the word "cunt" in reference to other editors .) Just over a month after being placed on civility parole I blocked Vk for 31 hours for a number of attacks, culminating in this edit (which is typical of his combative attitude towards Misplaced Pages). This resulted in further attacks, threats, paramilitary rhetoric and so, on. So I indef blocked and immediately asked for an independent review at AN (see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive97#Block Review - Vintagekits). The consensus, including Vk's mentors, was to maintain the indef block. In the meantime, the abuse continued by email, along the same lines, but with the added threat of personal violence against me and some hints that he indended to get revenge off wiki.I can forward them to ArbCom on request.

After an apology from Vk (the tirade was alcohol induced, apparently) and a campaign by a number of supporters to unblock him, Vk was unblocked by myself on his explicit agreement to a self imposed ban on certain articles, to avoid conflict and uphold the "utmost level of civility" meaning he was "going to have to be on your best behavior no matter what" . Although Vk's ban was in the area of Irish Republicanism, it was made clear to him that the point was to avoid conflict, and wiki-lawyering around this would not be acceptable. Indeed, in this spirit he agreed to consult an admin before editing "articles tangential the subject-specific ban (like contentious British issues such as the Falkland and Gibralter)." Despite this, and fully aware that the prior conflict on Republicanism articles had spilled over onto articles about baronetcies, Vk waited less than 24hrs before editing an article on Sir George Dick-Lauder, 12th Baronet Inevitably, Vk found himself in conflict on this subject before long, leading to a block by BrownHairedGirl (talk · contribs). In the immediate aftermath of this, it was reported that Vk sent abusive emails to both his mentor Alison (talk · contribs) for not supporting him, apparently, and to BrownHairedGirl. This was just eight days after Vk had been unblocked, having been indef blocked for the exact same behaviour. At this point Alison then indef block Vk again for "making clear threats regarding another editor's home address" , but for obvious reasons did not elaborate. I reviewed Vk's recent edits, identified two edits that appeared suspect and contacted Alison privately to confirm those were the reason for the indef block. She confirmed to me they were. With this information to hand, and considering Vk was already on parole from an indef block, had sent abusive emails yet again and has a long history of seriously disruptive editing, incivility, sock- and meat puppetry, I believe Vk's negative impact on the project grossly out-weighs any benefit he may offer. I propose he remain blocked indefinitely and placed among the Misplaced Pages:List of banned users. I am aware of a history of disruptive editing from a number of other editors named in this request, and support an ArbCom inquiry into those editors also. I do not believe I, personally, have used sysop tools in anything other than a neutral manner, in an effort to protect the project from disruptive editing. Rockpocket 22:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by User:Kittybrewster

I am one of many Users who has interacted at some stage with User:Vintagekits. I have found him to have been persistently provocative in attacking articles created or edited by me and others, some of which were articles about baronets. It seems he is deeply opposed to anything connected to the British establishment, titled people, etc. He has threatened to and has tagged numerous articles nn or fact or afd. Other users have waded in to back him up in this, including numerous editors some of whom are members of the Irish Republican project (notably User:One Night In Hackney, User:Domer48, User:Derry Boi) and editors who are not (e.g. User:Padraig, User:Giano II and User:SqueakBox) Other SPAs and possible meat/sock puppets have emerged from time to time, some of whom (eg User:Thepiper User:Stramash) are still around. Some of those were invited by Vintagekits specifically to assist in vote-stacking at afds. At no stage has VK accepted any responsibility for his own actions and for drumming up support off-wiki.

Misplaced Pages is not a battleground. Nor is it a soapbox.

After this had been going on for several months a few administrators were drawn in, all of whom are listed above (I think). They have done a superb job in trying to stop this dissolving into total chaos but they have been accused by VK and others of having been partisan. I don’t believe those accusations.

My analysis is that VK is a very angry person who should have been restricted to writing articles about boxers – where I am told he contributed constructively and uncontroversially (I have no view on that). He was allowed past his first indefinite block on condition that he behave impeccably in future. He has failed to do this and administrators blocked him indefinitely as a result. Other editors (User:Giano II and User:Squeakbox) claim VK may have been provoked or goaded into resuming his poor behaviour. They claim they want to achieve a full inquest to ensure things have been fair. From what I have seen the admins concerned have been fair and patient to a degree.

  • The more I think about this, the more I think the answer is 42 – but what is the question? Somebody summed it up a long time ago but I have forgotten where that analysis is. Broadly I think there are four questions

1. Is VK’s block appropriate? 2. Was he pushed into his behaviour? 3. Are SqueakBox, Giano_II and Vk himself seeking to become famous for a moment by expanding this mess (under the guise of fairness for all)? 4. If so is an expanded enquiry appropriate?

Statement by User:SirFozzie

I am not really much surprised that this case has made its way to ArbCom. I have recently returned from an attempted vacation (and still on a semi-sabbatical from WP due to health issues). My two cents.. as I said on the Great Irish Famine ArbCom.. this is one of the biggest long-term edit warring groups I have ever seen on Misplaced Pages, both in terms of numbers and in terms of people. We have the whole smorgasboard of ill done deeds.. threats, edit wars, sockpuppets, POV Pushing.. you name it.. it's happened in this group. I strongly urge the ArbCom to take the issue, and take whatever means necessary to end this war, once and for all, even if it means blocking everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY.) Half-measures will mean that we have to do this again, eventually. SirFozzie 21:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Additional Statement by User:SirFozzie

What you are seeing with the sniping and issues between the groups is generally what goes through the whole set of articles. Members of both sides have dug in, and the resulting edit wars have forced several people to retire (like User:Gold_Heart, and others (like Vintagekits) who've basically blown themselves up when it comes to WP editing. We see statements, like the one below from User:David Lauder (since removed) where it's assumed that if a user is Irish, then he or she automatically supports Vintagekits, or if they support Vintagekits, they're Irish automatically. This is why I urge ArbCom, even if they determine there's no action that needs to be taken on Vintagekits (confirming his indefblock/ban), to accept this case for user conduct issues across the whole chain of editors. SirFozzie 20:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

BTW, i confirm that the IP address is User:Gold_Heart) SirFozzie 23:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Since User:Conypiece and Padraig just got 48 hour blocks from User:Alison on an edit war (and constant sniping at each other) on these articles, I have added Conypiece as an involved party, and am letting him know now. SirFozzie 00:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by User:Alison

Evidence in camera

I'm in the process of writing this up. In the meantime, to answer Paul August; all my evidence has been forwarded to Fred Bauder, as that is the extent of my permission here. As Fred is on the ArbCom, can you please check in with him regarding what I've sent? Note: the two edits in question (the rationale to my blocking) have been oversighted since this afternoon - Alison ☺ 03:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Overview

This entire problem has been ongoing for almost a year now and it's only my indefinite block of Vintagekits which has brought the whole matter into focus. While my primary concern is the circumstances behind VK's block, I believe there is a much more basic issue which demands attention here. It's not all about VK.

I usually make a point of steering clear of Irish-related political articles as, due to my nationality (I'm Irish), I'll always be subject to accusations of bias. I have little interest in political matters and many of the involved editors here will know that I've turned down requests on both sides for that reason.

Vintagekits blocked indef and unblocked per agreement

Regarding my indefinite block of VK, I had some experience of VK's actions prior to all this as he'd come to my attention as a result of the actions of User:Gaimhreadhan some months back. I found him to be a likeable guy, knowledgeable but given to losing his temper somewhat, as well as having his own POV issues. Either way, he ended up indefinitely blocked by User:Rockpocket last July 25th. Myself and other admins succeeded in brokering a deal which would allow VK to edit again, but only under certain clear-cut parameters (the so-called "Sir Fozzie Agreement"). As part of this unblock agreement, I volunteered to mentor VK. Note that a number of editors back then questioned why the issue was not brought before ArbCom at that point.

From then on, I kept close watch on VK, his edits and his dealing with others. So far so good. He remained polite, kept away from most contentious articles - at least most political ones. However, he was still involved with the whole baronets business, as I was to find out later.

Blocked again, then unblocked

Due to his involvement in the baronetcy articles, VK got blocked again. This time it was for an apparent pagemove spree that happened over a short period of time. User:BrownHairedGirl blocked him for three weeks due, not only to as a result of his perceived disruptive actions, but also because he refused to state that he would desist on disrupting further. I initially endorsed BHG's block while stating that I was concerned about it but, as negotiations progressed, I eventually endorsed his unblocking. Again. As I do :)

Between these two points, I got a series of increasingly irate and robust emails from VK, which I only responded to after he apologised and I'd complained on his talk page. Emails are available to ArbCom if required. Fred Bauder already has these. When VK agreed to stop his disruptive behaviour, he was unblocked by BHG & I lifted the autoblock. The debate continued unabated on his talk page and I ended up reiterating my support for his unblocking. It was interesting to note both political camps polarising around the blocking and unblocking of VK; just about all the major players were involved at one point.

In parallel with all this, another editor contacted me regarding another issue. Himself and another editor had been accused of sock-puppetry, and had both been blocked as a result. They had ended up unblocked only after Fred Bauder had been contacted. As a result of all this, they were anxious to prove their identity to a neutral admin who had a RL identity. Either way, I ended up being faxed documents which included this person's full name and home address. I still have them here.

Then blocked yet again

A few days later, I was to indefinitely block VK on a very serious issue. The editor above, who's personal info I have, contacted me by email. He was quite concerned as he felt Vintagekits had made very clear allusions to his home address in some throwaway comments. I checked the diffs and, sure enough, VK had done exactly that. The comments stuck out like a sore thumb due to their weirdness and their inappropriateness given that VK had made a blatant and amateurish attempt to wedge the editor's street address into the comment. Twice.

On review of these comments, it is readily apparent that VK has made an unequivocal threat as to his knowledge of this editor's whereabouts. It's one of those "I know where you live" moments. Given that both of these editors are on opposite poles of a long-running battle over Irish Republican and specifically the Irish paramilitary organisation, the Provisional IRA, this had to be taken seriously. Some background; I'm an Irish editor. I grew up in the Republic of Ireland at the height of the IRA terrorist campaign. Seeing a message like that horrifies me as I can immediately see it's significance in context. When someone said, "We know where you live", the followup to that message usually involved petrol bombs through your window or a shotgun blast through your front door in the early hours of the morning.

Vintagekits and the other editor are both only too aware as to this meaning. I'm not saying that VK would actually do a thing like this, but he knows that he conveyed that message, and conveyed it clearly. This does not imply membership of any illegal organisation, as User:Gold Heart has implied it meant on VK's talk page, but indicates strongly that VK knew that it would have an impact. In other words, it's classic intimidation.

As a result of these clear threats, I immediately indefinitely blocked VK's account.

Unfortunately, I am unable to reveal why I did this in detail as doing so would reveal private information regarding someone who already feels at risk. It's an awkward situation and as you can see from the talk page, it boiled over into this arbcom proposal, with both distinct groups of editors lining up on either side of Vintagekits. Indeed, it was particularly annoying to see certain editors (I'm thinking specifically of User:Kittybrewster here) openly crowing about the blocking of VK. Breaking out the champagne, as it was described on Kittybrewsters' talk page.

My position is this; I blocked VK for threatening another editor. He's been blocked before and has an extensive history of being abusive and threatening physical violence both on-wiki and in email. His is being disruptive beyond belief and has been intimidating others for quite some time. Unfortunately, he also has quite a loud and vocal fan club.

I spoke briefly on the phone with RockPocket, another involved admin, this week. He revealed that he'd found the diffs in VK's edits and I confirmed to him that this was where the issue lay. He endorsed my block, as did quite a number of others

Alison ☺ 21:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved Giano

I found this problem when I was involved in the investigation into the validity of Kittybrewster's own family pages, many of which have been deleted. He has never forgiven me. As I have no great political interest in either Ireland or England I have been able to view this problem quite dispassionately. Similar problems are occurring on other Wikis. The problem is complex, two groups - one symbolised by Vintagekits and one by Kittybrewster are at war. Neither are the leader of their group but both are among the most vocal.

Vintagekits (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is Irish and proud of it. Some in his group undoubtedly have republican sympathies. All quite legal and acceptable, if not greatly liked in the old British establishment. Today, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness men who Margaret Thatcher would probably have cheerfully shot are both now entertained at 10 Downing Street where their views are seriously debated. Times change and Misplaced Pages has to reflect that.

Kittybrewster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and his friends are British and proud of it. Some of his group undoubtedly have establishment sympathies. Indeed they have deliberately identified themselves with the old type establishment, and more importantly the Anglo-Irish aristocracy. The traditional "enemy" of the "downtrodden" Irish.

The problem is that they both want to edit each others pages, both scream POV - was a baronet, or a freedom fighter, murdered or was he killed can result in months of bitter acrimony. Was the "freedom fighter" a "terrorist" or a glorious hero and so it goes on. Anyone caught up in this is labelled a Republican by Kittybrewster's gang. They even made a template to put by "suspect editors" names. The name calling from both sides is appalling. Some admins have tried to put a stop to this, but as they were largely Irish themselves their neutrality was questioned. Ireland is a very divided country. Adding to the confusion both sides use multiple sockpuppets. Kittybrewster's group were found guilty of vote stacking etc. on one of their baronets deletion pages. I don't have the diffs but I fully expect the Irish group have been equally guilty.

Vintagekits is his own worst enemy, quick to anger, he engages his mouth before his brain. This has been seized upon and he has become the chief target for goading. Kittybrewster has indeed been blocked and warned repeatedly to stop goading him - However he and his friends do not. Kittybrewster and his friends advertise a lot of personal information on Misplaced Pages, real names, schools, backgrounds and locations. They seem more real than some other and more reticent Wikipedians, and it seems that in the heat of the moment blinded by rage Vintagekits lashed out and blurred reality with the anonymity of Misplaced Pages. In the course of this he made, I am told, some very serious threats indeed. (I have not seen them)

The question is what to do with Vintagekits - is he a bad lad, an evil man or a hot tempered Irishman? I think he is a combination of the first and last and he needs a very severe warning and/or a short ban. Permanently banning him and Kittybrewster will solve nothing as others just like them will arrive. These editors and their friends have to be forced to keep away from each other and certain pages. That is the only long term solution.

I'm aware much of this case is in camera and sub-judice, but I think it is breaking no secrets to say Kittybrewster was not the one to whom the threats were made, but that person at times in his behaviour too has been suspect. The above can be verifiable by diffs found here . Giano 09:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

  • The more I look into this case, the more strange the undercurrents seem to be. The Arbcom either has to accept this case and make a thorough investigation into exactly what has been going on, or leave it alone - unblock Vintagekits and let the whole bunch fight it out between themselves. The secretiveness of this case is alarming, there can be no harm in making it being public knowledge exactly what VK said, to who he said it and where he said it. The precise details which would identify the RL identity recipient can be with withheld. The fact that Vintagekits is not even allowed to defend himself here is also worrying. My own dealings in the last 12 hours have greatly increased my own suspicions. Giano 08:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Regarding Kittybrester's post above "Are SqueakBox, Giano II and Vk himself seeking to become famous for a moment" I think even the Arbcom will unanimously agree I am quite "famous" enough already. So no Kittybrester, you are quite wrong there. Giano 10:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved Newyorkbrad

Disputes involving Vintagekits have been brewing for several months. Vintagekits, an Irish editor, appears to have a strong aversion to articles about British nobility and titled commoners, such as baronets. This has brought Vintagekits into conflict with editors on WikiProject:Baronetcies such as Kittybrewster, who I believe self-identifies as a baronet in real life and who has written articles about numerous members of his extended family, some of which have been proposed for deletion on notability and/or sourcing grounds. Some editors had the initial reaction that these articles were being sought out and proposed for deletion on ideological grounds; however, further investigation led by previously uninvolved editors such as Giano and Mackensen, revealed that serious reason did exist for concern about these articles, justifying at least to some degree Vintagekits' position. Harsh language and other user conduct during that dispute was regrettable but that dispute, in and of itself, is probably too stale to be arbitrated.

The particular dispute quieted for awhile but I gather from Vintagekits' talkpage that he has been involved in some other controversies, also generally related to disputes between Irish and British editors. There were some prior blocks and, after discussion, unblocks and several admins including but not limited to Alison and SirFozzie have made strong good-faith attempts to salvage the situation, which regrettably seem to have been unsuccessful.

Most recently, Vintagekits clearly crossed the line of acceptable discourse very seriously in his edits cited above by Rockpocket. It is clear that some administrator action was warranted based on those edits, particularly in view of the conditions of his prior unblocking. There remains the issue of whether an indefinite block, as imposed by Alison, was the appropriate response. Alison has asserted on Vintagekits' talkpage that, in addition to improper comments such as those quoted above, Vintagekits has made very serious threats (in two edits now oversighted) involving another editor's real-life identity and address, mandating a definitive and permanent block. There have also been references to a series of abusive e-mails; it is not clear to me whether Vintagekits has admitted or denied having written these. Other editors on the talkpage have acknowledged that Vintagekits made at least some highly inappropriate edits but have urged that he was, to an extent, provoked into doing so.

On Vintagekits' talkpage, Alison has also stated that she believes that based on his conduct, it would be inappropriate for Vintagekits to be unblocked even for the limited purpose of participating in an arbitration case. My understanding is that Alison has communicated privately with one or more arbitrators concerning the content of the threats. Beyond that, neither I nor probably any other user can intelligently comment here because I have not seen the evidence and it does not seem appropriate to post it here.

The questions with which the arbitrators are presented, then, are (1) should the evidence against Vintagekits be considered privately or on-wiki and how should all interested parties be heard; (2) does the evidence against Vintagekits support an indefinite block or a formal ban; and (3) does this case present an appropriate vehicle to discuss any other issues beyond the narrow one of whether Vintagekits should remain blocked. Newyorkbrad 22:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by One Night In Hackney

This case goes far deeper than the conduct of one editor, the currently indefinitely blocked Vintagekits. While his conduct has at times been deplorable, the many, many breaches of policy by his opponents are plain for all to see. For well over six months there has been a campaign of disruption and POV pushing by a group of British (and assorted other) editors on articles related to The Troubles. Some of the Irish editors are equally to blame, very few people have clean hands in this case. In effect since the end of outright conflict in Northern Ireland, Misplaced Pages has become the new battleground between those believing the views of the British public are what should be presented as NPOV and Irish republicans wanting their side of the story to be told equally and fairly, or in some cases a biased Irish republican viewpoint.

For my part, my editing has been misinterpreted by many editors. Many consider me a POV pusher biased in favour of the Provisional IRA, when the truth is I'm as English as they come. I have probably contributed as much in terms of sourced content to articles relating to Irish republicanism as any active editor. There are currently two articles under the Irish Republicanism WikiProject that are good articles, and I wrote, re-wrote or sourced 90% of both of them. If my editing was as biased as certain editors claim, they would never have passed GA. One administrator who holds a strong anti-Provisional IRA viewpoint has said privately to me that my editing was totally neutral, and anyone seeking to find much evidence to the contrary will have difficulty in doing so.

I am no longer an active Misplaced Pages editor, so if anyone wishes to spend their time hunting down evidence to blacken my name it will be an exercise in fulility, and there is ample evidence to refute any claims. However the conflict across articles has intensified since I stopped editing Misplaced Pages, and something needs to be done to get many editors back on the straight and narrow and improving the encylopedia in constructive ways. For this reason I implore the Arbitration Committee to accept this case to examine the conduct of all involved.. One Night In Hackney303 22:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved Sam Blacketer

Earlier this year I was involved in trying to (unofficially) mediate between Vintagekits and some other users over Norman Stronge, Hugh Fraser, 1st Baron Fraser of Allander and divers Baronets. I can't comment on the more recent issues brought up but I did form the view that Vintagekits' tendency to view edits through the prism of the Anglo-Irish conflict was very damaging and made it very difficult for him to function effectively in a neutral encyclopaedia. I also felt he unduly personalised his dispute with Kittybrewster. However, he was able with some guidance to see others' points of view and move on. This case has many of the aspects of an 'appeal against community ban' which the committee takes up if there's a reason for believing the ban may be excessive. Pace Squeakbox, it may be that a wider finding would be of assistance. Sam Blacketer 22:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Scolaire

I have had relatively few dealings with Vintagekits. What communication we had, I found him to be a genial character, but very sensitive and quick to take offence. Reading through many of the debates he was involved in (although in general I did not get involved myself) I have the distinct impression that certain editors knew exactly where his breaking point was, and steered him relentlessly towards it. Maybe the ugliest example was the editor who contributed anonymously as 84.13.156.208 and who tried to provoke Vk even as he was attempting to get himself unblocked. I find the whole section "Champagne" on User talk:Kittybrewster, culminating in this diff very disturbing. At best it is a show of very undignified gloating by four or five editors (and not btw what talk pages are intended for); at worst it looks like a conspiracy. To come down hard on somebody who doesn't know where to draw the line, while those who know how to "play the game" get off scot-free (pun not intended!) would be very unfair. Scolaire 15:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by User:Counter-revolutionary

I have been away for the past few days and have returned to find myself listed as an "interested party". My experience of Vintagekits has left me with the impression that he is a most discourteous and deliberately provocative editor. He has made many comments which, if the parties involved were still alive (such as in the case of Sir Norman Stronge, would have been libelous; such as accusing him of funding terrorism (a wholly false claim). He has also made provocative statements such as this . I know there are many more, which I cannot locate at the moment, the above are just an example of the sort of editor he is. None of us are without fault but VKs seems to go out of his way to cause trouble. That is all I have to say on the matter.--Counter-revolutionary 17:08, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by User:David Lauder

It is fascinating to read some of the remarks on this page. I support the comments of User:Rockpocket and User:Counter-revolutionary above. It is laughable to suggest that Vintagekits is just another editor doing good work who has been misread. It is also more than apparent that his overwhelming supporters are Irish Republicans, plainly shown by a glance at their user pages. I have nothing against Irish Republicans (my first delightful girlfiend was from Limerick) but I do not believe that Misplaced Pages is the correct forum for them to present their anti-British case. Nor do I think it is a forum for editors such as Vintagekits whose user page blatantly displays serious POV prejudices which, when put into operation, must cause instant disruption and grief to Misplaced Pages. More importantly, if you examine the contributions logs of Vintagekits, you will see that he generally sticks to an Irish Republican agenda. But any editor challenging his view of things on such pages means that Vintagekits will instantly move to articles that editor has created or made substantial contributions to with a view to bullying tactics of a varying nature, right up to AfDs, once he has located a Misplaced Pages 'guideline' he thinks he can rely upon.

I am really not interested in Irish affairs at all and it is ridiculous to try and sort opponents of Vintagekits into some sort of cabal similar to his. I strayed into 'his arena' of interest maybe once or twice and was penalised accordingly. I then found where he was attacking the contributions of another editor (User:Kittybrewster) under the usual guises and I foolishly entered my feelings on the AfD pages only to bring Vintagekits sneering remarks down on my head, with several of his collegues in tow, likewise. His behaviour towards other users who fail to support him is constant bullying, unpleasantness, and unkindness. He fails all the usual WP tests of civility, good faith, and no personal attacks, direct and indirect, for which has has already had several blocks, one of those being an "indefinite" block which, amazingly, was not. His latest block should be upheld.

Lastly, there is at least one editor above who has had the audacity to state he is "uninvolved" when he has consistantly supported Vintagekits in the past. I think he should at least correct that heading. David Lauder 21:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Logoistic

My purpose here is to comment on the broader issue of Vintage's editing of "Troubles and related issues" articles that the arbitrators have said they will consider.

I have had much interaction with Vintage in the early stages of his Misplaced Pages carreer. I believe Giano has grossly simplified the issue when he paints a picture of an Irish Republican vs. British "establishment" clash - to the point where the analagy becomes quite offensive. Undoubtedly Vintage's presence has served to counter any POV that might come from an Anglo-centric Misplaced Pages - I myself have benefited from our arguments over "terrorism", for example. Vintage has also a lot of knowledge and a lot of energy to contribute: he has made thousands of edits. However, I think he has two major issues that mean these positives are far outweighted by the negatives for Misplaced Pages.

First, he seems to have an intense anti-British sentiment, to the extent where he attacks it almost wherever it takes its form. Even when Squeakbox wished Vintage well when SirFozzie last unblocked him, with Squeakbox commenting that this was his "British sense of fair play", Vintage had to have a dig at this, replying that "Lol! Aye, we'll put it down to the British sense of fair play alright! Just kiddin"(here). He linked this to an article on the Birmingham Six - a group of men unsafely convicted over the PIRA Birmingham pub bombings. This doesn't sound like 'kidding', but is a deliberate dig that appears even when a user is reaching out to him.

This anti-British sentiment, which I think might even comes on to the point of paranoia at times, leads to the second problem: his consistent breaking of Wiki policies. Plenty of other Irish Republican Wikipedians get on just fine without breaking revert rules, using sockpuppets and meatpuppets, canvassing, vote stacking, making personal attacks, breaking mediation rulings, and being uncivil. Yet he has flounted the policies quite conistently. He has been given plenty of chances, yet has failed to restrain himself and follow the rules that everybody else has to follow. This is the simple issue at hand. Whether he introduces controversial stuff into articles is irrelevent - Misplaced Pages works best were conflicts of opinion are present. Even if he is pro-Irish Republican, other editors are there to balance out his own POV.

It is a shame that Vintage has not learned to control himself. I sincerely think he has a lot to offer Misplaced Pages and I have grown to like him, but given his track record, seriously doubt whether he can control himself.

I think his history of breaking Misplaced Pages policies is what needs to be considered here, not his particular political opinion. Logoistic 22:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Clerk notes

Recuse. Picaroon (t) 22:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Recuse from any clerk activity in this case. Newyorkbrad 22:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
If any further parties are added to this case, please confirm the notifications in the appropriate sections. - Penwhale | 20:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (5/0/0/1)

Comment There are 30 named parties to the case. Do you want to keep it that broad a case or narrow it down some? FloNight♥♥♥ 11:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Requests for clarification

Place requests for clarification on matters related to the Arbitration process in this section. Place new requests at the top.

Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 Remedy

As the closing clerk, I noticed some interesting problems with the remedy 1 of this case. The remedy 1 puts edit supervision on the editors sanctioned in the original case, however, at least 2 editors sanctioned in the original case was not named as a party to the newer case and was surprised/shocked of the development. I'd like some input from the Committee to explain the ruling on this. - Penwhale | 04:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, under this case, other editors who edit in a similar manner to the previously-sanctioned editors may be placed under the limitations of the original Armenia-Azerbaijan case. Do these sanctions expire one year after the editor in question is notified, or are they indefinite as no time limit is mentioned? The supervised editing remedy from the second case appears to be indefinite, as no expiration is mentioned, so my question is whether this is indeed the case and whether the other remedies are still meant to expire after a year, including on other editors brought in under the Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 decision. Seraphimblade 06:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Instantnood3

The arbitration committee has closed the above case.

Restrictions applying to Huaiwei:

The above is the shorthand restrictions placed on Huaiwei after an ArbCom case more than a year ago. Several months ago, it was found that Instantnood was not only being generally disruptive but also running farms of sockpuppets to disrupt votes/discussions and Instantnood is now permanently banned. Huaiwei hasn't been in any other kind of dispute resolution before or since the Instantnood issues.

It's clear to me that while Huaiwei was wrapped up in Instantnood's belligerence (as were a half dozen others on the periphery) it was Instantnood's wiki-stalking of Huaiwei (which continues with sockpuppets even now) that caused the problem, and not a general problem with Huaiwei as an editor. Without the instigation of a bad actor, Huaiwei is an excellent and dedicated Wikipedian who has been with the project for several years. These restrictions and potential punishments hang on him like an albatross.

I'd like ArbCom to review Huaiwei's contributions since the permanent banning of Instantnood and remove the previous restrictions.

SchmuckyTheCat
Right, Huaiwei has one 3rr with one user that is not Instantnood. I think the sequence of that one was, slow revert, Huaiwei realized he went over and reported it, both got blocked. He was also using the talk page to try and work out what was going on with someone belligerent.
One instance does not justify such harsh restrictions. SchmuckyTheCat
Well, that one instance is not the justification, the entire history is. I'd like to see three clean months before I support lifting the restrictions, though. --jpgordon 16:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


I believe that in a similar situation recently, the committee voted that someone's probation from a prior case would be ended if he remained out of trouble for a specific period of time. That might work here. Newyorkbrad 16:17, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Note: See motion in arbitrator voting section, below. Newyorkbrad 05:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Motions in prior cases

(Only Arbitrators may make and vote on such motions. Other editors may comment on the talk page)

Huaiwei (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Note: See also the discussion in Section 2 above.

I move that the restrictions, now over a year old, from the Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Instantnood 3 case on editor Huaiwei be lifted. While Huaiwei appears to have been involved in some edit wars and has received a number of 3RR blocks, I do not believe that the probation and limits on participation remain relevant at this point.

As there are presently 13 active arbitrators (of whom one is abstaining), a majority is 7.
Support:
  1. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 05:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
  2. James F. (talk) 09:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
  3. Paul August ☎ 13:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
  4. Kirill 17:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. First, I would like to see a clean block record for at least 3 months and no evidence of edit warring. FloNight 11:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
  2. Oppose, per FloNight. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 03:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Abstain:
  1. As I suggested above, I'd like to see a bit more time. --jpgordon 16:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Betacommand

With the passage of time and Betacommand's continued contributions to Misplaced Pages, the Committee hereby restores Betacommand's administrative privileges under these stipulations:

  • Betacommand may not operate any bot that utilizes administrative privilege without prior approval. For the avoidance of doubt, the term "bot" is to be construed broadly to include any full or partial automation of the administrative functions not already in widespread use by other administrators. Prior approval may come from the Bot Approvals Group (BAG), or for bots that provide partial automation that would not ordinarily require BAG approval, this committee.
  • Betacommand must observe the notification requirements and delay periods specified in policy prior to deleting images.
As there are presently 13 active arbitrators, a majority is 7.
Support:
  1. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 15:19, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  2. Raul654 15:25, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  3. --jpgordon 15:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. Uncomfortable with this, given his continually controversial behavior. Kirill 17:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  2. Paul August ☎ 03:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  3. Oppose. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  4. Oppose. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 03:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  5. Oppose for now. Keep doing your good work and we can talk about down the road. I feel you are too controversial now to be effective as an admin. FloNight♥♥♥ 00:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Abstain:
  1. Abstain until I discuss with Betacommand by email his views on blocking established users. FloNight 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC) See above vote.

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