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Revision as of 19:55, 5 October 2007

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Good articleEdward Low has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 4, 2007Good article nomineeListed

Nomen omen est...

Yes, indeed... If there's a hell, I hope he's rotting in it. Alive.

GA passed

I think this is a good and interesting article that is very close to GA standard. I particularly like the layout in the body of the article, where there are relevant quotations down the right hand side. Very nice. I do have a few points to raise though, before I list the article as a GA.

  • The last chapter of the Brutality section, starting "A snow called the Unity was added to the fleet ..." seems to have nothing to do with brutality.
  • In the paragraph above that, there's a sentence that starts "Leslie described Low as a psychopath ...". It would be nice to be given some idea of what Leslie's expertise is at that point. For instance, "Historian Edward Leslie ..."
  • The Captain section starts off "Low abandoned his plans off the coast of Brazil, and moved on to the Caribbean ..." What plans did he abandon? I don't see anything preceding that to explain what his plans were in going to Brazil.
  • The Captain section doesn't seem to sit well. It's very short, and it's a bit confusing, as George Roberts is variously described as Captain George Roberts, and a mate on the British ship King Sagamore. If this was a meeting after Low had captured the Pink, wouldn't the meeting have taken place aboard the renamed Rose Pink?
  • I'm a little bit dubious about potential POV statements like "... terrorised the Azores ..", and more particularly "One of Low's most particularly noted episodes of sadism ...". Brutality certainly, but sadism? That implies some degree of sexual satisfaction for the act. Is there any evidence for that?
  • I think there's some serious overlinking in the article. For instance, man of war is linked twice in the last chapter of the Brutality section; rum is linked in the last paragraph of the Life in Boston section; silk is linked in the Flags section; in the sentence "Low was rescued by a France ship ..." French is linked to France; rigger links to a disambiguation page, none of the entries on which seem to be relevant to Low's job.
  • Low's brother was "... was hung at Tyburn for thievery, but Low himself was "... hanged ... in Martinique ..." "The men were hung for felony, piracy and robbery ..." As a British English speaker, I prefer "hanged", but whichever is chosen, it ought to be consistent.
  • In the Piracy section for instance, in the paragraph beginning "He sank the other ships of the fleet, and abandoned the Rebecca. The Boston News Letter of 9 July 1722 published a list of those captured by Low. A number of the fishermen were forced to join Low, including Philip Ashton who later escaped in May 1723 ..." the dates aren't linked consistently. In one case the full date is only partially linked and a month/year (May 1723) isn't linked. I believe that there may be some debate over the value of wikilinking full dates, but whatever decision is made should be made consistently.

I don't see any other issues with this article in regard to the good article criteria; it appears to be stable, written from a neutral point of view, broad coverage with plenty of relevant references, and with appropriate copyright information for all images. So I'm putting the article on hold pending some agreement on the specific issues I've raised above. Well done to all the editors. --Malleus Fatuarum 14:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Haha, that would pretty much be me. Thanks. I'll fiddle with it. Neil ム 17:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
As far as the suggestions go, all done except two; the sadism one - sadism means "experiencing pleasure at the pain of others", or "enjoying the pain of others"; this does not have to mean sexual pleasure. Terrorise means to "instil terror" - do not get confused with "terrorism", the use of which can have POV issues depending on context. The dates are consistently linked - day/month linked (so we get 4 October or October 4), year never linked. Neil ム 17:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Stand-alone years ought not to be linked certainly, but years as part of a full date ought to be, especially where the day and month are linked as they are in this article, as per wp:date#Autoformatting and linking.
  • On the "sadism" issue, nobody can know what drove Low to his excesses of cruelty. Perhaps he derived no pleasure at all from it, but simply did it to instill fear in others. The text suggests that he carried out the act described as "sadism" in rage. That's very different from deriving pleasure from it.
  • So far as the "terrorised" issue is concerned, I won't stick on that. I haven't confused it with terrorism, and it's certainly a plausible claim to make in any case. --Malleus Fatuarum 18:21, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


A few issues (yes, I have issues!):

  • Is 'Rhode Island sloop' intended to describe where the ship was from, or is it the name of a specific type of sloop?
  • The list of Commands in the infobox doesn't seem right. From reading the article, I get:
  • Rebecca
  • Rose Pink
  • Ranger
  • Fancy
  • Merry Christmas
  • Most links in the 'See also' section are already listed within the article.
  • Is his death the subject of much speculation, or is it the manner, place, time, etc of his death? Picky I know, but I still don't like that sentence.

Maralia 19:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


To summarise where we are with this review, I will list this article as a GA if two outstanding issues are addressed:
  • the sadism claim is either substantiated or removed.
  • full dates are either consistently autoformatted, or not.
--Malleus Fatuarum 20:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


Lots of points!
    • Sadism - changed to cruelty (it's repeated earlier, but I've run out of synonyms). The first rquote probably substantiates it (mirth, but it's really not a big deal.
    • Years - hmm, I thought dates like this: "4 October 2007" were fine. The MOS on that must have changed since I last looked at it about 18 months ago(!), I'll delink them.
    • Rhode Island sloop - refers to sloops that were a part of the "Rhode Island Navy". Nothing to suggest they were different in any physical way to normal sloops. (, , , ).
    • List of commands - it's probably never going to be complete, because as best I can gather, Low changed ships a lot. But the Ranger was definitely captained by Low at one point, I'll add it.
    • See alsos - fixed. I'd like to keep Piracy in the Caribbean there as it's piped in the article.
    • Death - let's go with "There are conflicting reports on the circumstances of Edward Low's death" - okay to you?
Phew! You guys are tough. Neil ム 20:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
RE: Death - I'm happy with your rephrased statement above; however the sentence I really had issues with was 'His death, in around 1724, has been the subject of much speculation' which still remains in the lede. Maralia 20:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Baaaargh, missed that. Changed to match. Neil ム 20:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Tough but fair I hope. I think this is a great article, and I'm going to promote it to GA. --Malleus Fatuarum 20:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Qapla'! Neil ム 21:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

A Star Trek fan as well as a pirate fan. Congratulations on what you've done with this article. --Malleus Fatuarum 21:32, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Resources

No stopping now! Neil ム 21:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

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