Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:27, 2 November 2007

This user is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.

Welcome to my talk page. Please leave a message by pressing the "+" button above.

I will generally respond on your talk page, unless:

1. you ask me to respond elsewhere (e.g. article talk pages), or
2. you are an anon user, in which case I will respond here.

Discussion will be archived regularly.

Welcome!

Hello, PalaceGuard008, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! 

Hello, are you mr. sumple? Blueshirts 21:41, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

zhuda @ the s.h.e article

Yeah, I don't think there's an English term for it. Because a "hit song" is really only determined by how it performs on the charts, and not all hit songs are track 1 (e.g. S.H.E's second album). A similar term would be a CD's single, but singles are usually individually sold, either in hard copy or digital. We can't really say "digital single" either because the technology wouldn't have been popular enough back when S.H.E started out in 2001. So yeah. - Pandacomics 15:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

But with "main song", that's usually a term used to contrast the word "filler song" in an album. An album has many main songs, but it would be really lame to say "their track ones." - Pandacomics 04:10, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Tibet

And who are you? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ 06:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added the neutrality tag. I guess you see the question arising on the actual geographical boundary and framework of historical Tibet -it is subject to debate - I see where you are coming from. Its the old China-Tibet argument again - its difficult - particularly writing an article carefully. I would hope you see I have put tons of work into articles on Tibet. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ 06:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

If you are from China then I can see your view totally. But try not to let politics affect the article. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ 06:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I've removed it as on studying it I too question the accuracy of it. -it isn't all that useful anywat - it was presentation I was thinking about ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ 06:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree that map was a bit too definitive when even historical boundaries were not all that clear a but you shouldn't object to the flag or seal. It is the flag used in historical Tibet by the Tibetans - I'd hoped it would improve the understanding of the article not as a ruse to promote Tibetan nationalism. The reason I rmeove dit was beacuse of the map and I had doubts over the accuracy of the info and its legitimacy. For instance in an article on "historical" Tibet why did it have info on 2005 population and economy when the article is about pre 1950? This was a contradiction but thanks for bringing it to my attention. Peace. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ 06:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (Chinese)

Greetings, I have been having the beginnings of a revert battle with User:Jerrypp772000, at the disputed Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (Chinese), I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to look in and give an opinion? Thanks. LionheartX

Shanghainese

Do you speak Shanghainese and, if so, are you available to come up with the pronunciations of words from time to time? Badagnani 16:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for this valuable info. I think the ad hoc would be best (can the Hanyu pinyin tone marks be used to indicate tones)? Badagnani 06:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Review: this article is being reviewed (additional comments are welcome).Anonymous Dissident 06:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Review: this article is being reviewed (additional comments are welcome).-- Anonymous Dissident 20:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

GA

Hey PalaceGuard, I just wanted to congratulate you on your recent GA status article. You are doing a great job. Keep up the hard work. -- Anonymous Dissident 06:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

重装

I think you might be right about "reinstall." It was hard to figure it out from the original characters via Wiktionary definitions. Badagnani 08:03, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Food item

Hi, I need the Chinese name for the food item that is similar to mochi--white balls that are smooth and a little smaller than golf balls, made from glutinous rice flour and filled with sweet bean paste (mung bean or azuki bean). These are available frozen in Chinese supermarkets, in clear plastic trays almost the way eggs are sold. They're boiled in water and are chewy in texture. In Vietnam this is chè xôi nước (see the photos) and in Japan there is mochi like this, but I want to figure out tha original Chinese name for this food. Badagnani 08:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, looks like they're filled Tangyuan (yuanxiao). Badagnani 08:10, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow, great info. Can you add all that to the article? Badagnani 16:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

thanks!

Thanks for your response on WT:CHINA! I appreciate your help... if you're interested, we could use all the helping hands we can get at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Three Kingdoms. Oh.. read your user page... like you, I am totally addicted to Hayao Miyazaki. Later! Ling.Nut 13:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks!!! umm one way you could show moral support is by adding your name to the list of project members. Just a thought...
• By the way.. some day.. months from now... November-ish or even December-ish.. I wanna put some major effort into Grave of the Fireflies...
• Later! Ling.Nut 14:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Name

Did you get your user name from one of the characters in Stephen Chow's movie Forbidden City Cop? Just wondering. (Ghostexorcist 10:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC))

Sydney Law School

See the thread with same title on my talk page. enochlau (talk) 13:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Soybeans in the pod

In the U.S. we know this as edamame. I didn't know that Koreans or Chinese ate soybeans this way, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised as there are so many culinary overlaps between those three cultures. This must be one of the very few exceptions to the use of soybeans in highly fermented form. Badagnani 01:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

As I'd suspected, the Soybean article, under "Uses," only mentions the Japanese use of edamame, and not the Chinese and Korean. If you know about those, you should add info about it there. Edamame might merit its own article, which would talk about all three varieties. It is possible that the Chinese and Korean versions originally come from the Japanese. Badagnani 01:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Interesting! What is 酒糟, exactly? Badagnani 02:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it's "sediment" or "dregs." Badagnani 02:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Edamame

Yummy. I'm quite surprised that there isn't a proper article on this food item already! enochlau (talk) 23:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Mao

Hey, just to let you know I did revert you on the Mao Zedong page - as something like what you added is relatively controversial - and I think it's controversial enough that you should probably have a source to go with it. Assuming you have the source I'm perfectly fine with that being in the article, but I think until then - "propaganda" is a pretty strong word.--danielfolsom 01:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh nononono - I'm aware that he acted in that position - the reason I believe a source would be best is the high traffic the article gets and the potential for the factoid to be lost.--danielfolsom 02:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Nicely done.--danielfolsom 02:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Constitution of Australia

Oh Hello there PalaceGuard Firstly, I apologize for not having responded. It is my first edit of the Misplaced Pages and i was not familiar with this talk facility. I didn't realize what was happening. I made the change and when it went back I thought it was an automatic change due to my not having logged on properly or something. At any rate, I am interested in understanding why my changes were reverted. Why does WIkipedia state there is no Preamble to the constitution? There clearly and legally is. For example: THE LEGAL INFORMATION ACCESS CENTRE states there is a preamble. The Australian Government's Senate web site at also includes the preamble. In fact, any record of the Australian Constitution also includes Clauses 1 to 8 which constitutes the Preamble. So why does the Misplaced Pages page state incorrectly thast there is no preamble? I am truly interested in an intelligent discussion about this point. My email is so should I expect to hear from you or shall I return here to check? Kind regards Truth First

There is a (big) difference between a preamble of the Act and a preamble of the Constitution. The links you gave us refer to the preamble of the Act. The Constitution itself does not contain a preamble. (Try and keep discussion in one place please.) enochlau (talk) 11:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I have emailed Truth First about the distintcion between the Preamble and the Covering clauses on the one hand, and the distinction between the Preamble to the Act versus the Preamble to the Constitution on the other hand. Let's continue our discussion at Talk:Constitution of Australia. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Forbidden City

Never got around to congratulating you for this. Good work. --Ideogram 17:05, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Chinglish picture

Actually, I rather thought that the whole list of regulations was a veritable goldmine of Chinglish. Perhaps instead, other parts of the article could refer to it. Kelisi 00:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, while I realize that WP is not censored, I don't think it would enhance the article's encyclopaedic nature to have an image with the word "shit" staring the reader in the face. There is also the context (a list of regulations in a public place) that would be lost if I cropped the picture. As it is, it clearly demonstrates that local governments in China are not immune to Chinglish. Kelisi 00:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Re:Forbidden City map

Very impressive! For fonts, I'd recommend something common in case people don't have the font when they download the SVG file. I think a sans serif font (like Arial or Verdana) or something would look good, because Misplaced Pages's default font is a sans serif font - so it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb. Font size is something to consider - depends on whether you want it as a thumbnail in the Forbidden City article, or rather large. The colour... I'm not sure, because you've got light and dark areas. Maybe you'll need to draw semi-transparent boxes behind the labels to make it readable. And when you're done, also consider uploading the SVG file too - you can embed those in pages like any other image type. enochlau (talk) 07:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

CE or AD

The discussion on whether all China related articles should switch over to BCE/CE formatting is winding down. You haven't commented recently, so I wanted to invite you back to see what you think. A large majority of people who opposed it now what to make the switch. John Smith's seems to be the only person fighting tooth and nail to keep the BC/AD system. He has left some negative comments on the manual of style page. --Ghostexorcist 10:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I merely highlighted PHG's attempt at deception. He frequently misquotes or misinterprets wikipedia rules and guidelines to suit himself. Ghost, please try to gain consensus through discussion rather than forcing through a decision through super-majority, which is not consensus. John Smith's 11:27, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Forbidden City & Palace Museum

Hi, PalaceGuard008! I know that you have contributed a lot to the Forbidden City article and is trying to improve the quality of it, but I strongly think that the Palace Museum article and the Forbidden City article should be re-merged. Much of the contents in the Palace Museum article is nothing new or more elaborate than the informations that are already presented in the Forbidden City article (the infos are basically the same), and by merging them back together again, I feel a more comprenhensive article could be shown. Also, since the palace (Forbidden City) itself is such an essential part of the museum, I think it is only fitting that they combine into one article. Plus, many of the international articles linked to the Forbidden City talk about both the Forbidden City and Palace Musem within the same article, as I think perhaps it is easier to organize them.--Balthazarduju 02:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Korean and Japan? Japan and Korea?

It seems as if you like alphabetical order on your own user page, however you object to it, on the Tofu page.

Is there a particular reason for that? I'm assuming that it is not something as petty as you be anti-Japanese, so please inform me as to your reason.

thanks.Sennen goroshi 04:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

thanks for the response. lets leave it as it is and not waste our time any further.

I'm sure someone else will change it at sometime, and someone else will revert it...and it will go on forever, but at least we don't have to waste our time on it anymore.Sennen goroshi 05:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Rice tea

Ha, I don't know why I left that message for myself! Thanks for noticing. Strange that white rice is used for this. Badagnani 10:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be good to make an article about 炒米茶. Badagnani 10:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Tiananmen Square calculation

I did it by looking on Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=39.902066,116.391574&spn=0.01335,0.013583&z=16&om=1

On the Map, there is an area calculator that came to 55.25 acres: Here is the area I included: Image:Tiananmen-square.png

Then using the Google calculator: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=55.25+acres+in+square+meters&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

55.25 acres = 223 588.817 square meters

This is much less than the official government claims as the size of Tiananmen Square, which appears to put its claim as the largest urban square in the world in dispute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edchi (talk • contribs) 03:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

RE:Fort Street High School

please explain - the unproved claim that Fort Street High SChool is the oldest government school in Australia. I cannot understand why this happened, as I specifically changed the text so that it did not make that claim! I'm not going to change it if I'll only be reverted, so I would like to resolv ethis disagreement before I take any action. Apologies in advance----JamesSugrono 20:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

See for example . The system of public education began with what became Fort Street High School. enochlau (talk) 00:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Apologies - I hadn't read through the DET's page thoroughly enough! This should teach me to read through sources properly in future.----JamesSugrono 11:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Chenghuang Miao

Please see my reply on my talk page. Thanks, —O (说 • 喝) 23:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33-John Smith's

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33-John Smith's. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33-John Smith's/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33-John Smith's/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 01:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

A request

Hello PalaceGuard008, you've done such a great job adding original language refs to the Forbidden City article, I was wondering if you can help with a new article on more recent Beijing architecture. I just started it today and will add a few more paragraphs shortly to prepare it for DYK, with intended coincidence for it to be on the main page on its anniversary of 1 October. If you notice the zh: interwiki, it lists some projects after the 1959 Ten, and I was trying to steer the article away from those and focus on the original. What I'm going to add is some architectural information about the buildings and some more information about the works of art commissioned for the buildings. I have been able to find some excellent references in English, but basically, what I was asking is if you can help expand this article with any Mandarin pages you may be able to find. My ability to read Chinese is still very limited but I do study, have some resources, and have taken a class so I know a few things, but if you can find any online references I would be happy to read them and see this article expanded. Regards, D. Recorder 00:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look. Anything that you add, I'm sure will be splendid. I am thinking of starting sections for the second and third paragraphs, with the titles, "art commissions", and "architecture" respectively. And I have some more information to continue along the lines of the third paragraph, maybe with additional subsections of "modernism", "socialist realism", and "historicism" for the architecture section. The article could very well continue with descriptions of the buildings, and make a very full article—but I really want to find more information on the initial planning, and the political situation. Very important in this is finding some sources in Chinese, which is difficult for me since I'm still learning. So any help from you would be fantastic! D. Recorder 01:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Comments left on talk page. Regards, D. Recorder 04:13, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I object to the redirect

The word "caisson" is meaningless. Please do not do that. I do not care that you ripped off my work (which you did - a copy and paste is an effective deletion. Leave my article to exist because I need it. I'll forgive you for the rip off. --Mattisse 19:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I am going to report this to ANI if you do not stop. You have done no discussion. You simple robbed material from one article to put in yours. I object and will try to get help on this matter to stop you. --Mattisse 20:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I have brought it up on ANI as you refuse to discuss it but acted arbitrarily. --Mattisse 20:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There is no such a thing as "my article", Matisse (See WP:OWN). Having said that, a redirect without discussion is not unacceptable. If PalaceGuard008 wants to merge and redirect, he needs to place {{mergeto}} and {{mergefrom}} tags in these articles and engage in a discussion. Recurring attempts to redirect and merge without discussion is considered disruptive. See WP:CONSENSUS. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. That is what I wanted to hear. He has already copy/pasted the Zaojing article into his. He pretty much did the same thing with the Dougong article. --Mattisse 20:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Huju

Can you help expand Huju? Badagnani 20:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Request a merge per policy - it is not between you and me

It is not to be argued out on ANI. Just put the merge templates on as stated above. --Mattisse 21:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

When you respond without a title on my talk page I do not always find it because I get a lot of postings -

Please use new banner when you post on my page. Sometimes I have two or three messages at once so I do not always find messages that have been stuck in out of sequence. Please follow the rules. I can't even easily find your messages now as I have to hunt through all the talk page entries. --Mattisse 21:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Apologize for repeated postings

Misplaced Pages was screwed up and that was accidental. I didn't realize it was posting as I kept getting error message.

Please post under a new section on my talk page. Otherwise, the chances are I will not see it. When I get the message flash, I often don't realize that there is more than one message. So please use a new section on my talk page. That is not an unusual request. In fact, talk page etiquette suggest doing that. --Mattisse 21:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:Advice on correct template to use

What I'd do:

1. Write on talk page of both articles describing the situation; make sure that other editors agree that they are practically the same.
2. Just redirect Zaojing to Caisson (Asian architecture) by overwriting the old text by a #REDIRECT.

enochlau (talk) 19:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

In this case, see WP:MERGE. There's no way around it apart from hashing out some kind of a concensus. Is it just one editor? Are other editors satisfied as to its equivalence? enochlau (talk) 23:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I've read over the talk pages, and probably the best way forward is to get a third opinion or approach other editors directly who might have some knowledge or interest in the topic. It doesn't look like either of you will budge, so I think getting some outside opinions will bring some fresh perspective into the debate. (I don't have the time to review the evidence - I'm married to My Thesis.) enochlau (talk) 03:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Received third opinion on Merge of zaojing and Caisson (Asia architecture)

I asked for an honest opinion from an editor who writes many articles, including several Feature Articles, on Chinese history and Chinese architecture. His reply:

If you want my honest opinion, I think it is Caisson that needs to be merged into an article on zaojing (preferably as a separate explanatory section), not the other way around. I say this in consideration that it only focuses on the Forbidden City, while the zaojing covers a much wider time frame. That's just me, though.--Pericles of Athens 06:14, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Regards, --Mattisse 13:42, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually

After reading the Caisson article (which I really didn't before, I only went on Mattise's word that it focuses solely on the Forbidden City) it is plain and obvious as day to see they are the same exact thing, only using either English terminology or the exact Chinese terminology. I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Why don't you guys draw straws or play rock paper scissors or something, because there are articles on East Asian topics that have English originated titles or exact renditions of East Asian terms.--Pericles of Athens 17:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge caisson (Asian architecture) into coffer

My view is that until you straighten out the terminology in Caisson (Asian architecture) any suggested merge with zaojing should be put on hold. The term "caisson" is not commonly used in architecture in the way you use it. There are no architectural articles on Misplaced Pages that use the word as an architectural word. The Oxford English Dictionary is not an architectural glossary. Glossaries on architecture do not list the term. If you want to use dictionaries, then The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged Edition lists five definitions. As number 6 (and least preferred): Also, cassoon , Arch, coffer (def. 4). I have suggested that the Caisson (Asian architecture) be merged with coffer which is the correct architectural term in English. Other than the least preferred definition in a general dictionary, I cannot find a reliable architectural source supporting your use of the term. (And I do not count superficial online Chinese travel sources if not supported by more reliable sources. Cheers. --Mattisse 13:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Architecture is a profession with specific terminology

A general dictionary is not a technical dictionary. If I look up common technical terms in my profession in OED or any other general dictionary, it will not give a correct definition. In fact, this is the source of much strife in my field on Misplaced Pages, as lay persons stick material into the articles, based on common usage, and disregard the professional definitions. This way misinformation is perpetuated. Fortunately, there was a recent Arbcom decision that in professional fields where scholarly sources exist, correct sourcing WP:V and WP:RS must be followed, as it is dangerous for Misplaced Pages to put forth inaccurate information. Granted, architecture is not, for the most part, a life threatening issue, but the general standards and guidelines should still be followed in all articles. Cheers. --Mattisse 14:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Multiple sources

Look up "multiple" in your dictionary. Not good enough to have one nontechnical source. The English did rule the world once upon a time, but I believe that is no longer the case and other cultures get to have their own identity today, even on Misplaced Pages. Would you use a general Chinese dictionary as the main source for an article on an English topic? Cheers. --Mattisse 14:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure

That's actually a great idea, I'll actually do that, and revert the History section to just before my additions, to maintain the coherence of the article, until the new History section is complete.Jame§ugrono_{Contributions} 08:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Sanbeiji

Thanks--so you're sure the wine that's always used for sanbeiji is mijiu and not any kind of red-colored huangjiu like Shaoxing wine? If mijiu, is it the drinking kind or the cooking kind (which has salt in it)? Badagnani 23:38, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I made some changes to reflect your knowledge. Badagnani 23:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Wiki Flag Policy

Hi PalaceGuard! I still need to make an official greeting lol. I can also tell why you have such a name haha. I've read your forbidden palace, its very good and im glad it did reach the GA status. I think Chinese/Asian culture deserves a fairer cut into the earths spere of influence anyway. All the same, I just hope our argument about flags will end peacefully, and I'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway. But I must say here, my argument will go down soon anyway. It seems no one around other than me seem to support flags. Once ben and ench or a few people dig into the argument on your side, I'll prolly end it. oh well, I tried. Dengero 23:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

You can have the zaojing redirect - just remove the copied text & references that you put in the Caisson article as they are incorrect anyway

I just do not want the material and text copied from the article, zaojing as it is part of another article. You cannot copy text and references from another article. But you can use the #REDIRECT. Just remove the copied text and references as they are incorrectly used in the Caisson article. Cheers, --Mattisse 14:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No. Misplaced Pages has a policy that you cannot copy information from one article to another without CONSENSUS. That is the point of the MERGE. Cheers, --Mattisse 14:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

If you look under WP:V, WP:RS etc. you will see that you cannot cite sources that you have not consulted directly. That means you must access the source before you reference it. Cheers, Mattisse 14:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

It may be under WP:CITE. You cannot just take a list of references and pretend that you consulted them personally. Cheers, --Mattisse 14:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

More on OR in Caisson (Asian architecture)

Accusing me of OR does not excuse you. You are pretending if you cite sources in an article and you have not consulted them. Besides WP:CITE, WP:NOR (since you have not consulted the sources) and WP:POV are applicable.

Also you might be interested that User:Cyborg Ninja has been stalking me and making personal attacks. Cyborg Ninja has since been warned for stalking and personal attacks regarding me, including these posting on the talk page of Caisson (Asian architecture):

Referring to another post on my talk page: As I have explained to you before, when I said "my sources" I mean sources I own and can consult. The sources that I own and can therefore verify by looking are quoted incorrectly in your article. You have used the copied sources incorrectly when you copied from one article to another. In one instance I could not find the source cited in the book so I must have been mistaken. In another instance, the lady whoever's tomb, neither a caisson nor a zaojing is mentioned. These books are very difficult for me to read and understand, and I do at times make mistakes. Cheers, --Mattisse 15:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Just to repeat from my talk page since this discussion is going on there

(copied from my talk page)

To repeat from my posting on your talk page, I don't care about the #REDIRECT on zaojing. I care that you copied text and the references from the article and put it in yours. If you look under WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE etc. you will see that you cannot cite sources that you have not consulted directly. That means you must access the source before you reference it. As someone else suggested, it can also be consider WP:NOR, WP:POV if you include information that you have not researched yourself.

Referring to another post on my talk page: As I have explained to you before, when I said "my sources" I mean sources I own and can consult. The sources that I own and can therefore verify by looking are quoted incorrectly in your article. You have used the copied sources incorrectly when you copied from one article to another. In one instance I could not find the source cited in the book so I must have been mistaken. In another instance, the lady whoever's tomb, neither a caisson nor a zaojing is mentioned. These books are very difficult for me to read and understand, and I do at times make mistakes. Cheers. --Mattisse 18:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I asked at the Village Pump (policy) and the answer is that you cannot use the sources copied from another Misplaced Pages article - providing diff of answer

• Here is the diff with the answer. Please follow policy and remove the sources. Cheers. --Mattisse 22:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
• Here is another diff

And here is the comment copied from the Technical Pump (policy):

See more specifically the guideline Misplaced Pages:Citing sources#Say where you got it. GRBerry 20:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC) Cheers. --Mattisse 22:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Palace of Heavenly Purity

Hello! back in August at this edit, amongst the material you added were the words "subsequent emperors lived instead at the smaller Hall of Mental Cultivation to the west" and a citation to it named <ref name="CCTV2"/>. Since the reference name doesn't exist earlier in the article, it has caused "Cite error 8; No text given" to appear in the references. I am guessing that "CCTV2" refers to a China Central TV documentary (or website), but do you remember to what it was you were intending to reference? Thanks, and regards, — BillC 00:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick reply! I did wonder if that was where it had come from, but I was unable to find it with a quick look, and in any case the best person to produce the reference was yourself. Have a good day! :) — BillC 00:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Clarification

I may have looked at it a bit unfavourably at the time. But i took your statement that: This article had been stable for a long time before Loopla came along and disturbed its arrangement. as the offending comment, at the time i viewed it as though you were calling the editor in question disruptive. It was probably incorrect, but i think that commenting on other editors should be discouraged at all times. I am entitled to use the word fuck as i please, in its context, it violated no policy of wikipedia, although some may consider it inappropriate, i dont. Happy editing. Twenty Years 12:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It may have been stable for a long period of time, but that is the point of wikipedia anyone can edit, although i agree with Loopla's revision, and disagree with yours I am willing to just let this all go, and move on with my life, because what happens on one small school article concerns me precious little. Feel free to join WikiProject Education in Australia if you feel strongly about schools. Twenty Years 02:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

You might be interested in becoming part of the WP Schools Assessment team, where you can actively assess school articles. You start off as a beginner assessor, where you have to post all of your assessments to the assessment change log, after about 2 weeks they will promote you to Experienced, and you only have to put an article that got a B-class or higher, or mid-importance and up. Probably worth joining. Twenty Years 13:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Dispute resolution

Thanks for asking. Misplaced Pages has a pretty well-defined set of options for content disputes, at WP:DR. In this case, you might start with posting a request at the Architecture WikiProject to see if you can get one or more other editors there to get involved. After that, you have a whole range of choices. If I were you, I'd just ask Mattisse if he'd be willing to do any of the options, and take whatever he wants. If he won't pick one, then you can rule out the mediation cabal, but the others are still available.

And maybe if you try editor assistance, someone there will have a better idea than Blueboar and me for what to do next, though I'm skeptical (but would be delighted to be wrong). -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Given a comment that Mattisse has made on his talk page about not trusting mediation, I doubt he will agree. However, my advice is that you do make the offer, as it will show your good faith in attempting to resolve things, and that could be important at later stages of dispute resolution should they get there. I note that Mattisse has not been formally notified (on his talk page) of the mediation that Cyborg Ninja has already requested. You might take notifying Mattisse of the request as a first step (also note that the Mediation Cabal will not accept the request if he does not signal his agreement.)

At this point, I think I will do more damage than good by remaining involved in the article. Mattisse at least offered an appology for his insinuation that we were engaged in sockpuppetry. I am willing to let it go at that. Good luck with your future editing. Blueboar 00:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Mattisse (again)

He is taking his temporary block very poorly... he keeps digging the hole deaper, and escallating the situation. I strongly suggest that you not respond to any comments he may make either here or on his talk page. I have notified ANI... let them handle it. Blueboar 02:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

PalaceGuard008 continues to prolong issue

Please ask him to just drop it. No one else beside you, Cyborg Ninja, Blueboar and PalacGuard008 is interested.

I have asked you to clarify exactly what I did wrong, as PlalaceGuard008 and Blueboar are prolonging this and continuing it. Since I do not know what I did wrong I would appreciate an explanation. When Cyborg Ninja gets back in the ring (it is she who filled the mediation) then it is likely to escalate further. Please explain specifically what I did wrong (not diffs of long paragraphs where I cannot tell if you are saying if anything I said was O.K. in your eyes or only certain portions. I need specifics. If a do not understand, then a real mess has been created, the outcome of your actions is waiting in the wings. Surely you will get involved in the mediation as you are a major factor now, due to your taking sides. Perhaps there you will provide the specifics, as the links you have given so far will not be considered helpful.

I will also explain that I spent one year on Misplaced Pages as a "nice" person always being polite and doing the right thing. That netted me pobably 15 t0 20 ANI complaints, got me labeled as a proven sock puppet (rediculous) and had me banned several times. This year, after the sock puppet ring after me returned and I realized that I would not get any help, I decided on the nasty approach. Unfortunately, the nasty approach works better. This is my first ban this year, and I do not think it is well substantiated. You still have not pointed out specific examples. Giving diffs to very long paragraphs is not helpful. Are you meaning every word I wrote in those long paragraphs were uncivil. Perhaps if I knew what you meant I would be in a better situation regarding understanding this. Now, I have no idea what you are talking about, as so much uncivil and personal attacks have been directed a me that do not count in you eyes. How can I tell the difference?

Please do clarify or I will never understand. Mattisse 03:27, 2 November 2007 (UTC)