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Revision as of 13:11, 4 November 2007

Vector vs CRT

Hi-- didn't wanna get into a revert thing on the First Video Game page, but I'm curious about why you changed my mention of "CRT" back to "raster." You mention in your edit summary that vector displays are CRTs, which was my reasoning as well (thus my change of raster to CRT to reflect that any CRT display was included, not just raster-type), so why not leave it as "CRT," which is thus inclusive of both raster AND vector games? Student Driver 11:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Vectors are CRT's but not video, that was a typo. If you actually read the article (which is what the article was based around in the first place), its about the fact that those games were not considered video games by the courts or in the literal sense because they have no video signal. Vector monitors have their beam directly controlled by the computer and/or code. Your change seemed oblivous to the purpose of the article, like you just briefly glanced at the beginning and decided to change it. --Marty Goldberg 14:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Sega, Gremlin, Blockade, and one big mess

The sources are a bit muddled on this one, so I was hoping you could clear some of this relationship up for me. You are correct, of course, that the purchase of Gremlin came later, that was my mistake. According to High Score!, this purchase took place in 1980. High Score is also the source that states Blockade was a Sega game. Now Blockade was clearly a Gremlin game, I can see that from KLOV and the Arcade History database, but it is also clear that Sega and Gremlin had a relationship before 1980, as KLOV has some games that clearly bear a combined Sega/Gremlin logo. System 16, the excellent documentor of various types of arcade hardware labels the Blockade hardware as a Sega creation and lists both Blockade and its two sequels as as Sega/Gremlin collaborations, though KLOV does not. Do you know what the exact Sega/Gremlin relationship was before 1980 and how Blockade fits into it? This has me curious and I would really like to clear up the confusion. Indrian 04:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure, here's an exact account of when Sega took over Gremlin by someone who worked there: . Also, the claim on Sega's Fonz being the first motorcycle game is suspect, as Atari's Stunt Cycle was also the same year. As far as High Score as a resource - you're starting to see its not a great one, the book makes a lot of mistakes and presents the author's personal claims (like the Pole Position one). With regards to Pole Position being the first popular color driving game - High Score would be wrong on that as well, as Turbo was released the year before that and was extremely popular at the time. --Marty Goldberg 04:56, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I have always known High Score is not the best source. The problem with video game history is that there are very few sources and each one contradicts all the others. The best those of us not part of the industry can do is muddle through what is available and come up with the most likely outcome. As to Turbo, that is a game I am aware of and certainly an important game as a pioneer of full-color graphics and getting most of the way to the rear-view angle (still slightly more overhead than Pole Position), but I did not state Pole Position was the first popular game, merely that it was the first to really establish the genre and enhance the realism of the experience. Turbo was a rail game in which the player did not have full control over the vehicle as in Pole Position, and Pole Position was still a better seller than Turbo and more influential as a whole. I would mention Turbo too, but there is just not enough space for every game in the general article. I figure that if the article goes from Gran Trak 10 to Pole Position to Out Run to Hard Drivin to Virtua Racing to Ridge Racer to Daytona USA the reader will get the basic idea on how racing games evolved. Just one man's opinion of course. Indrian 05:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Back to the whole Gremlin thing, the page you pointed me to was definately interesting, but it still does not solve the underlying problem. Gremlin and Sega had a relationship in the 1970s from all appearances, though not necessarily on Blockade. What I am interested in is the extent of this relationship. Was Blockade a Sega hardware in a Gremlin body? Several sources say no, several sources say yes. I am inclined to think it was not at this point, but pre-golden age non-Atari video games are simply horrible to find information about. Do you have anymore information about the pre-1982 relationship between the two companies? Indrian 05:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

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PONG

I'd like you to know why the Simpsons reference to PONG is "unimportant trivia" to you. To me it is more important than a lot of the other crap on there. The reference meets the criteria set forth in the comments of mentioning PONG by name. To selectively delete users' valid contributions from an article like that based on some subjective internalized criteria is kind of rude. –Andyluciano 13:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC):

Because it was decided as such by consensus. Read the talk page. Also, you missunderstand or missrepresent the criteria - "mentioning by name" is not one of them. Very specifically, Either the actual PONG (not just a pong type game) is a part of a scene (not just a background prop) or integral to the storyline, song, etc.. One liners mentioning the name are not "integral" to the scene, nor are "pong type games". The criteria were created to save this section, many of the regular editors wanted to remove the section entirely as trivia sections are not welcome on Misplaced Pages. --Marty Goldberg 13:37, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Having read the talk page for Pong I was hoping to receive your feedback on how to include references on the appearance of Pong in the 2007 film Zodiac. I notice that you deleted my early entry (copied from IMDB). I do feel that the appearance of Pong in that scene of the film is a notable appearance. I am fairly new to wikipedia and hope that you will be able to point me in the right direction. --Retrodouggy 00:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Two issues: The fist issue is whether or not it is an important part of the scene or not, and something playing in the background is not by the current standards. The second issue - it is not identified as the actual Pong, but rather as just another pong clone. The Pong entry differentiates between that, and what you attempted to add assumes one over the other. This is in difference to the Pong scene in Airport '77 where the game is a central part of the scene (with all characters hovered around a cocktail version of the game while having dialog with each other about the game). --Marty Goldberg 01:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Let's say, for sake of arguement (and to clarify how wikipedia guidelines are to be interpreted), that the director of the film had been interviewed as part of an "Empire" maagazine review and had stated that it was, in fact, Pong used in the film. If I was then to reference that article could I then include the information in the Pong wikipedia entry? Please note that this is hypothetical! I'm just trying to get my head around this. Thanks in advance for your comments. Retrodouggy 20:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

If that had occurred, you could write an entry in the Pop Culture section that is in regards to that interview then and not what you originally had. The interview itself and him discussing why he wanted it in the background and how it plays in to the scene would actually be more notable than the appearance of the background prop pong clone itself (since its an interview with someone discussing pong directly and its appearance in their movie), and would have to be the main subject. --Marty Goldberg 16:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Unnotable modern shareware clone

Hello, I would like to ask about your deciding to delete Ricochet and Ricochet Lost Worlds from the Breakout clones article. I understand you most probably had a good reason for this deed. My only problem is that I do not realize this particular reason. May I ask you what are the criteria for a Breakout/Arkanoid clone that need to be met in order for a game to be notable? And I also thought that the particular article was meant to provide more of a complete list of all the clones instead of only the 'chosen ones'. Thank you. --IJK_Principle 18:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Couple of things - 1) No, it is not a list for all clones. Clones of notability are clones from the time period or of a historical nature. Modern shareware clones are specifically forbidden per the CVJ project. 2) Putting up material related to your own products is a violation of Misplaced Pages and a Misplaced Pages:Conflict_of_interest.

Thanks for your answer. Only a small note about your second statement: I am not in any way related to the development team of those two games, I'm just a fan of the series. So that you know.
Thanks. --IJK_Principle 13:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Joust links

Have you tried them? I'm no fan of AOL but it happens to be a fully playable working link, and the others are not. Saying it's an ad for GameTap is a red herring. All links to free Joust are ultimately going to be an ad for something. 75.185.127.48 14:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The midway link just plain doesn't work. Misplaced Pages should be a source for quality information, and it's becoming a plaything for control freaks with too much time on their hands. Besides, the midway link is also an ad. 76.6.165.236 19:10, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The midway link works fine for me. And it is not presented as an advertisement like the GameTap entry. GameTap's was literally an advertisement for GameTap sold and placed on the refered page, to promote their game service. Midway's is simply presented as a gallery of Midway's own old games (not being sold or promoted as such) that you can play on their site. --Marty Goldberg 19:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

fair enough, although midway is in fact selling the games at the bottom of the very same page. Maybe midway will resolve the error for affected configurations (I'm surely not the only one) 76.6.165.236 19:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

1942 link

Re: link www.stickycarpet.com/dam/dam194X.htm

Why do you feel that a whole page dedicated to the complete 19XX series, of which there is no comparable comparison on the whole web, is not 'notable' enough to be featured here? http://en.wikipedia.org/1942_%28video_game%29 --User:91.125.208.144 09:29, 7 August 2007

For the same reason the other person removed it. There are defined linking policies for Misplaced Pages, and Misplaced Pages is not a collection of links. A link has to add significant info to a page that is not already included. A page with a bunch of screen shots and personal comments does not qualify. --Marty Goldberg 14:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The page gives a complete history of the series and has been on wikipedia for months with no complaints. The reviewer is a writer for Retro Gamer Magazine UK and his comments are pertinent to the games and the series. I suggest you re-instate the link.

No response huh? Well I wonder if there would be any difference if the site was hosted by Classic Gaming? I don't see any of the Hardcore Gaming 101 links being removed, and that would be classed as a 'fan' or personal site. Surely your position would be grounds for a conflict of interest here? I abolutely hate censorship in all it's forms and this is what you are doing. It's nobody's self-given right to delete pertinent content on Misplaced Pages, this is a community not an autocracy. I would also suggest you need to examine your elitist attitudue.

ClassicGaming is not an encyclopedia, and its not "my site". It has no rules in regards to this. This place does. It also has rules on people spamming from multiple IP's (all originating from the same place). Likewise, just because I'm not sitting around my computer 24/7 and haven't gotten around to removing it yet from the R-TYPE page is a little ridiculous to call a conspiracy. Lastly, you seem to have a hard time understanding how Misplaced Pages works. There are guidelines for posting links, and there is a video game group that decided on what content is valid or not. Likewise there are rules for posting links to your own site. If you continue on this path, I will report your ip's to the admins for banning and the pages will be protected. --Marty Goldberg 18:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Spam#stickycarpet.com. --A. B. 14:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Blacklisting request

• meta:Talk:Spam blacklist#stickycarpet.com (permanent link)

I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of disabling the stickycarpet.com link above by stripping off the "http://" ... otherwise you'd find this page locked up by the spam blacklist filter until you removed or disabled the link. --A. B. 17:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:OP

Please watch your edits, you added text right in the middle of a report. Q 10:16, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

"please keep opinions out of the edit summary"

I have every right to express my opinions in edit summaries and talk pages. --Golbez 18:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Plain and simple, Misplaced Pages:Edit_summaries are for summation of "Why did you make this edit?", not "What do I think of this console?" The edit summaries are there (and to be used as) a tool for other editors to see if its "worthwhile for them to check a change". Color commentary is WP:Disruptive of this process, and disrespectful to the other editors of the topic who take the subject matter seriously. --Marty Goldberg 02:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The Rise and Fall of Commodore

Just deleting a valid reference source seemed wrong to me after thinking about it so I was going back reverting my deletes and replacing with: http://worldcat.org/isbn/0973864907 instead of the advert. What you did is much better. Can you help me with this? I'm finding it hard to root out all the times it was linked but if you follow my edit history you'll see all the links I've found so far. Alatari 14:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you were right on the initial link. Commodorebook.com used to go to the author's web page, which included excerpts and interviews from the book. Apparently now it just forwards to the publisher's order page. So its good you caught this and we can replace it to the link of actual excerpts. --Marty Goldberg 14:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Aren't there excerpts that actually mention Jay Miner or the Amiga? It's tentative to use that same link on article when the subject of the article isn't even mentioned. Alatari 16:40, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Not that I've seen, other than the original CommodoreBook.Com page that is no longer there. There are reviews (such as this one which mention the content. But that's about it as far as citable sources. --Marty Goldberg 17:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

kB vs KB

I like that you change KiB but please use the correct kB, and not KB (which not correct, but it's widely used. Incorrectly). It is the small caps k that stands for "kilo", ie "a thousand". K is something else.. it's not a prefix. On a side note.. where's the discussion about this, and the alleged banned user? I'd like to see. -- Henriok 18:52, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

In the archive of WP:MOSNUM, and the banned user (not alleged) was/is User:Sarenne who went about making massive sweeping edits across Misplaced Pages last late winter/early spring changing all kB/KB/MB to KiB/MiB, etc. (which was one of the things he was banned for). We're still going around trying to undo the damage he did. --Marty Goldberg 18:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks. -- Henriok —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you didn't even check what I changed at KB. I did not violate any consensus at all. I rephrased it, separated kB and KB adding a tiny bit of information making it less ambiguous. There was no reason in reverting my edit. --217.87.99.127 16:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair-use image galleries

I noticed you've gone through and restored a number of fair-use image galleries removed by an IP account. However, such galleries are generally correct in being removed because as the images' status as being "fair use" depends on their proper use in the context of an article (as part of criticism or analysis). Rather than do a(nother) mass-reversion, however, I'd rather first ask you if these galleries are really necessary. Nifboy 04:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that was the point in the reversion. They were removed with no notice and no warning tag giving people time to find a suitable replacement if one exists (per the guidelines), done by an IP account who was doing mass removals (literally within seconds after another). Likewise, I'd disagree on your "generally correct" point. The galleries in question are all generated screenshots, and WP:FAIR clearly states under Acceptable Images: "6. Screenshots from software products: For critical commentary". Also - that's Critical (of essential importance), not criticism (the act of passing judgment). The galleries are in fact for the purpose of showing side by side analysis of the ports of the game, whose graphics often differed per platform during the era of these games/consoles/systems. --Marty Goldberg 05:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Binary prefixes

It looks like someone else is trying to use IEC binary prefixes but this time in the Playstation 2 article. I've written something explaining why on the user's talk page. Fnagaton 16:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I'll try and keep an eye on it as well. --Marty Goldberg 16:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you kindly. Fnagaton 16:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I see you've recently reverted the anonymous editor's changes. Thank for that. You've got good timing, I was going to send you a warning after lunch if the user kept on making changes. I do hope it's not Sarenne coming back again. :( Fnagaton 15:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Ted Dabney

This is neither here nor there for anything currently going on at wikipedia, but I happened to come across a post by you on some forum somewhere while I was looking for any information that might exist on this elusive individual stating that you and a group had actually interviewed him at some point. Has this interview ever been published anywhere on or offline? I know you are (were?) compiling information for a book on Atari history and would not expect you to let all your secrets out of the bag if you still intend such a publication, but this rare window into Atari's earliest days would no doubt make for some interesting reading and fodder for discussion. Indrian 01:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, three of us (myself, Curt Vendel, Leonard Herman) did extensive interviews (Curt talked with his family members as well). Leonard's will probably be in his book, Curt and mine's will be in the Atari book. However, I'll also be covering the material in my Video games misconceptions series at CG.Com in the near future. Specifically in the "Myths of Nolan Bushnell" discussion. Ted left the industry in the mid 70's, but had a lot to say about his period with it during the late 60's through mid 70's time frame. Ted pretty much lives in a cabin in california and is very very hard to get a hold of now, but during the time he talked with us put a new spin on a lot of the material that we've only taken Nolan's word for. --Marty Goldberg 02:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks for the info, I look forward to reading some of this when it becomes available. Indrian 02:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Wing Tyun Kung-Fu

Hi, I see that you removed my addition to the Wing Chun Page where I added Wing Tyun as a Romanised spelling, your comments were that it was non standardised. I would like you to review this for the following reasons. 1. Wing Tyun is arguably more phonetically correct that the other options. 2. We use this spelling in the UK as Wing Tsun is copyrighted by Leung Ting. 3. We have a thriving organisation and are recognised by the World Martial Arts Alliance. Check out www.wingtyun.co.uk Considering this is it possible to replace the amendment? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Notrogm (talk • contribs) 10:14, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

68000

Hi, thanks! Yeah, I'm not so good with references. Hopefully that will discourage ppl from adding "24-bit" :v) Potatoswatter 01:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Hopefully it will discourage him from continually trying to reference it as a purely 32-bit process as well. You can't really argue with what the designer/manufacturer itself calls it. --Marty Goldberg 01:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Talk page template

You don't have to create a separate template for the talk page, unless you really want to have one. You can just use {{cvgproj|tf=Atari}}, which gives:

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This page is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Video gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Video gamesTemplate:WikiProject Video gamesvideo game NA This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale. Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks: Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks view watch edit history shell vg talk alerts purge AfDs Lisette Titre-Montgomery (1 participant) Party royale game (2 participants) List of Minecraft characters (5 participants) Carlton Wilborn (5 participants) Cossacks (video games series) (2 participants) Rat Race (video game) (7 participants; relisted) Red Barrels (3 participants; relisted) TheoTown (12 participants; relisted) Zero Hour (video game) (6 participants; relisted) Merge discussions Console game (discussion) Atari Interactive (discussion) Nintendo DS Lite (discussion) Pokémon Essentials (discussion) Input lag (discussion) Neo Geo Pocket (discussion) Minecraft – Volume Beta (discussion) Other discussions No major discussions Featured content candidates Donkey Kong (nom) Hotline Miami (nom) The Suicide of Rachel Foster (nom) Bejeweled (video game) (nom) Chris Redfield (nom) Good article nominations Pixel Piracy (start) River Raid (start) The Great Giana Sisters (nom) Dendy (start) Dark Urge (start) Jeanette Voerman (start) Deathloop (start) Quiver (video game) (nom) Regi (Pokémon) (start) Ridley (Metroid) (start) Blast Wind (start) Project Zero 2: Wii Edition (start) Barry Burton (start) Sea of Stars (start) Pokémon Stadium (nom) Otogirisō (start) Schim (start) Bit Pilot (start) Tom Clancy's The Division 2 (start) Unsighted (start) Gardevoir (start) Cybermania '94 (start) End Poem (nom) Nuzlocke (nom) Berzerk (video game) (start) Overcrowd: A Commute 'Em Up (start) Frostpunk (start) DYK nominations Sun Haven Reviews and reassessments A Space for the Unbound (rev) Bejeweled (video game) (rev) The Legend of Dragoon (rev) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (nom) Appy Awards Articles that need... assessment (3) (0) reassessment (1) cleanup (3) infoboxes (9) cover art (250) screenshots (8,991) photos (70) translation from japan (187) creation merging

Cheers, JACOPLANE • 2007-10-26 17:44

Thanks, I'll put that in the table instead. --Marty Goldberg 18:37, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

WP: OBVIOUS

Wgungfu,

I appreciate your attempt to cut to the heart of the matter over on Super Nintendo Entertainment System, but I'm going to revert you for two reasons.

1. First of all, there is an ongoing discussion on the subject of verb tense which is both civil and productive. There is a great liklihood that when the dust settles, we will in fact apply the change that you have made. But for now, you have inadvertently injected a bit of fuel in an area that was already a bit hot.
2. Secondly, if you go back and re-read the intent of WP:OBVIOUS, I believe you will see that you have misinterpreted the intent of the policy. It is actually intended to push editors towards including factual material on a subject with which they are well-acquainted, but which the reader of the article may not be familiar. It has nothing to do with points of contention between editors. Indeed, given that there is currently an editing issue under discussion, some editors might interpret your use of the term "obvious" as bit of an insult, with the implication that others are too stupid to see what you alone recognize as "obvious".

Anyway, please feel free to engage in the discussion, both at this page and at the project page. While your mind probably won't be changed, you'll at least see that there are some valid reasons out there for the other point of view. Cheers. Unschool 23:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Typo redirect E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (tari 2600)

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Putting together a sock puppet report for Sarenne

I've been putting together a draft sock puppet report for Sarenne. Please feel free to add any links or argument to it that I have not thought of. Fnagaton 19:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I'll do it later tonight. At the very least, he's done 6 of Disruption items required for a blocking. --Marty Goldberg 19:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey

Seems you know a lot about this Sarenne person, thanks for your help there.

Also, Milwaukee is an awesome city. Kwsn (Ni!) 04:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. The whole Sarenne is really well documented at the MOSNUM talk page archive as mentioned, as well as that sock puppet report I gave. In February through April he had bots up changing 100's of pages at a time from the kB to kib, etc. and engaged in revert wars, even when told his edits were being disruptive. That's what sparked the call for consensus over at WP:MOSNUM, and when he didn't like they way things went started doing even more edits and taunting people to stop him in the edit summaries. That's also why User:NotSarenne's appearance and recent edits threw up a flag when he started coming from multiple IP's, changing kB's to kib's, etc. even when explained it was against mosnum, using rude and taunting behavior in his edits, harrasing people on their talk pages and giving them directives, etc. etc. All the same behavior and language, which flew up big flags because the damage that Sarenne had done is still being taken care of. There's a partial documentation of NotSarenne's behavior here. And thanks, love Milwaukee as well. You pass through here or do you live around here? --Marty Goldberg 04:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

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