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I don't see that the references provided come anywhere close to establishing notability: I don't see that the references provided come anywhere close to establishing notability:
#http://www.grg.org/Adams/E.HTM lists Young as the validator of some supercetenarians. It's a primary source, irrelevant to notability #http://www.grg.org/Adams/E.HTM lists Young as the validator of some supercetenarians. It's a primary source, irrelevant to notability

:misspelled 'supercentenarians'. I don't see how a 'primary source' is 'irrelevant' given the GRG's numerous worldwide citations in both scientific and popular media.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

#http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwger/about/admin.html is a list of the Administration & Staff of the Gerontology Institute. It lists Young a Graduate Research Assistant, which is not a notable position, and as a primary source it's irrelevant to notability #http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwger/about/admin.html is a list of the Administration & Staff of the Gerontology Institute. It lists Young a Graduate Research Assistant, which is not a notable position, and as a primary source it's irrelevant to notability

:that was just to counter the argument that there was 'no proof' I was at GSU.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

#http://www.demogr.mpg.de/calendar/files/23312.3112487793-Workshop%20Program.pdf is simply a list of conference participants, and irrelevant to notability (most academics participate in lots of conferences) #http://www.demogr.mpg.de/calendar/files/23312.3112487793-Workshop%20Program.pdf is simply a list of conference participants, and irrelevant to notability (most academics participate in lots of conferences)
#http://www.supercentenarian-research-foundation.org/organization.htm lists young as a memner of the committee of the Supercentenarian Research Foundation. Not a notable role, and another primary source #http://www.supercentenarian-research-foundation.org/organization.htm lists young as a memner of the committee of the Supercentenarian Research Foundation. Not a notable role, and another primary source

:I disagree that being listed there is 'not a notable role.' There are only 11 persons listed, two of which have their own Misplaced Pages articles

#http://www.grg.org/Adams/AA.HTM doesn't mention Young #http://www.grg.org/Adams/AA.HTM doesn't mention Young

:Yes it does.


The external links are little better: The external links are little better:
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#http://www.globalaging.org/health/us/2006/longevityclues.htm offers substantive coverage of Young. It's a 1,0000-word article in a newspaper from his home state, about the work of Young and his colleague #http://www.globalaging.org/health/us/2006/longevityclues.htm offers substantive coverage of Young. It's a 1,0000-word article in a newspaper from his home state, about the work of Young and his colleague
#http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/rej.2005.8.274?cookieSet=1&journalCode=rej is a list of supercentenarians, which doesn't mention Young #http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/rej.2005.8.274?cookieSet=1&journalCode=rej is a list of supercentenarians, which doesn't mention Young

:Yes it does.

#http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/full/59/6/B579/TA1 is a journal to which I don't have access, but is presumably to a paper written or co-authored by Young. Irrelevant to notability #http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/full/59/6/B579/TA1 is a journal to which I don't have access, but is presumably to a paper written or co-authored by Young. Irrelevant to notability
#http://www.demografie.de/calendar/files/51736.8836975098-Workshop%20Program.pdf is a conference schedule which presented a paper by Young #http://www.demografie.de/calendar/files/51736.8836975098-Workshop%20Program.pdf is a conference schedule which presented a paper by Young


And that's it. He's a 33-year-old graduate student
⚫ And that's it. He's a 33-year-old graduate student who has given papers at conferences, which is non-notable. Otherwise he gets a few quotes in a BBC article and one more substantive article in his hometown's newspaper, and he claims to be a consultant to a few outside bodies (though we have no independent sources for those claims). That's perhaps slightly more than the norm for an academic, but it seems to me to fall well short of ], which looks for such points as a "credible independent biography" or "Widespread coverage over time in the media such as the BBC, The Times or other reliable sources".

:That I got this far even before I have a doctorate really says a lot. I'm merely going back to prove to outsiders what everyone in the field already knows about me.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

who has given papers at conferences, which is non-notable.

:These were scientific conferences, not business conferences, and organized with some of the most powerful people in the field, such as ] and ]. These persons are heads of entire institutions, such as the ] and ]. Also, considering the 'supercentenarian conferences' have been held just once a year and I appeared at the ones in 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2005 suggest more than just a one-time, fluke invitation.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

⚫ Otherwise he gets a few quotes in a BBC article and one more substantive article in his hometown's newspaper, and he claims to be a consultant to a few outside bodies (though we have no independent sources for those claims). That's perhaps slightly more than the norm for an academic, but it seems to me to fall well short of ], which looks for such points as a "credible independent biography" or "Widespread coverage over time in the media such as the BBC, The Times or other reliable sources".

:As you just pointed out, I have been mentioned by 'widespread media coverage' over time, including the BBC, the New York Times, the Tokyo Times, the Wall Street Journal, etc. This hardly constitutes a 'small-town newspaper':

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070131b2.html

Again, you could find over 1,000 references on all six continents, but BHG would call that 'spamming.' NO, it's not spamming. Spamming involves mass e-mailing to people whose lists are illegally gained and for whom the recipient, chosen at random, may have little interest. Always a product is for sale (Viagra, hair regrowth, refinance mortage, etc). Simply posting links to refute allegations that something is not true is NOT spamming, and to claim it is smacks of '''personal attack.'''

Not to mention that the Atlanta Journal-Constitution serves a metro area of some 5+ million persons.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

There has been three months since the last AfD, in which the subject himself has added references.

:As have other persons. The fact that the article page has been active and improving suggests both article viability and potential for future growth.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

⚫ If in that time even the article's subject hasn't found evidence to bring the article close to meeting ]'s requirements, I think it's safe to conclude that the evidence probably doesn't exist. '''Delete'''. --] <small>] • (])</small> 05:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

:Comment: there is far more material out there about me than about ]. Further, I also created aticles for my rivals as well. That says a lot.] 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


⚫ There has been three months since the last AfD, in which the subject himself has added references. If in that time even the article's subject hasn't found evidence to bring the article close to meeting ]'s requirements, I think it's safe to conclude that the evidence probably doesn't exist. '''Delete'''. --] <small>] • (])</small> 05:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
*<small>'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. </small><small>—] 05:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)</small> *<small>'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. </small><small>—] 05:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)</small>


Revision as of 13:29, 7 November 2007

Robert Young (longevity claims researcher)

Robert Young (longevity claims researcher) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

This article was nominated for deletion back in August, and the AfD was closed as "no consensus". It seems to me that it has not improved much since then, and that the previous discussion may not have covered all the problems.

First, this article was created by its subject Ryoung122 (talk · contribs), who has continued to edit it since the AfD closed. I was drawn to the subject by the orphaned category he created for it, Category:Supercentenarian trackers, and by the subsequent correspondence with Ryoung122, which involved (inter alia) spamming irrelevant and badly formatted-links in large quantities. Those things are not relevant to a deletion decision, but the diffuse nature of the material prompted me to examine this article more closely, in particular the claims to notability.

I don't see that the references provided come anywhere close to establishing notability:

  1. http://www.grg.org/Adams/E.HTM lists Young as the validator of some supercetenarians. It's a primary source, irrelevant to notability
misspelled 'supercentenarians'. I don't see how a 'primary source' is 'irrelevant' given the GRG's numerous worldwide citations in both scientific and popular media.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  1. http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwger/about/admin.html is a list of the Administration & Staff of the Gerontology Institute. It lists Young a Graduate Research Assistant, which is not a notable position, and as a primary source it's irrelevant to notability
that was just to counter the argument that there was 'no proof' I was at GSU.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  1. http://www.demogr.mpg.de/calendar/files/23312.3112487793-Workshop%20Program.pdf is simply a list of conference participants, and irrelevant to notability (most academics participate in lots of conferences)
  2. http://www.supercentenarian-research-foundation.org/organization.htm lists young as a memner of the committee of the Supercentenarian Research Foundation. Not a notable role, and another primary source
I disagree that being listed there is 'not a notable role.' There are only 11 persons listed, two of which have their own Misplaced Pages articles
  1. http://www.grg.org/Adams/AA.HTM doesn't mention Young
Yes it does.

The external links are little better:

  1. The first of the kinks to mention Young is the Yahoogroup which he runs, but that's not a WP:RS reliable source
  2. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5293436.stm is an article about a supercentenarian, not about Young. Young is not mentioned until paragraph 11, and then with four sentences of quotes.
  3. http://www.globalaging.org/health/us/2006/longevityclues.htm offers substantive coverage of Young. It's a 1,0000-word article in a newspaper from his home state, about the work of Young and his colleague
  4. http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/rej.2005.8.274?cookieSet=1&journalCode=rej is a list of supercentenarians, which doesn't mention Young
Yes it does.
  1. http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/full/59/6/B579/TA1 is a journal to which I don't have access, but is presumably to a paper written or co-authored by Young. Irrelevant to notability
  2. http://www.demografie.de/calendar/files/51736.8836975098-Workshop%20Program.pdf is a conference schedule which presented a paper by Young

And that's it. He's a 33-year-old graduate student

That I got this far even before I have a doctorate really says a lot. I'm merely going back to prove to outsiders what everyone in the field already knows about me.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC) 
who has given papers at conferences, which is non-notable.
These were scientific conferences, not business conferences, and organized with some of the most powerful people in the field, such as James Vaupel and Jean-Marie Robine. These persons are heads of entire institutions, such as the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research and INSERM. Also, considering the 'supercentenarian conferences' have been held just once a year and I appeared at the ones in 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2005 suggest more than just a one-time, fluke invitation.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC) 
 Otherwise he gets a few quotes in a BBC article and one more substantive article in his hometown's newspaper, and he claims to be a consultant to a few outside bodies (though we have no independent sources for those claims).  That's perhaps slightly more than the norm for an academic, but it seems to me to fall well short of WP:BIO, which looks for such points as a "credible independent biography" or "Widespread coverage over time in the media such as the BBC, The Times or other reliable sources".
As you just pointed out, I have been mentioned by 'widespread media coverage' over time, including the BBC, the New York Times, the Tokyo Times, the Wall Street Journal, etc. This hardly constitutes a 'small-town newspaper':

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070131b2.html

Again, you could find over 1,000 references on all six continents, but BHG would call that 'spamming.' NO, it's not spamming. Spamming involves mass e-mailing to people whose lists are illegally gained and for whom the recipient, chosen at random, may have little interest. Always a product is for sale (Viagra, hair regrowth, refinance mortage, etc). Simply posting links to refute allegations that something is not true is NOT spamming, and to claim it is smacks of personal attack.

Not to mention that the Atlanta Journal-Constitution serves a metro area of some 5+ million persons.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

There has been three months since the last AfD, in which the subject himself has added references.

As have other persons. The fact that the article page has been active and improving suggests both article viability and potential for future growth.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

If in that time even the article's subject hasn't found evidence to bring the article close to meeting WP:BIO's requirements, I think it's safe to conclude that the evidence probably doesn't exist. Delete. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment: there is far more material out there about me than about Keeley Dorsey. Further, I also created aticles for my rivals as well. That says a lot.Ryoung122 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. The above user has already been involved in the debate and this nomination appears to be a conflict-of-interest motivation. I also note that the nominator has stated that she has no interest in the subject which makes the nomination biased. Further, it is traditional for the nominator NOT to vote in their own nomination. In response, I'm going to do the same thing:
  • Keep. There is only one Guinness World Records and only one 'Senior Consultant for Gerontology.' You can find me on page 2 of the 2007 or 2008 editions, as well as other parts of the book. A search for "Robert+Young+gerontology" returns 490,000 hits; EVERY ONE of the front-page hits is me. Not only that, not a single front-page hit is for a commercial products, but an educational or scientific one.

GSU Researcher Tracks Elite Pack of Supercentenarians for Clues on ...From talking to people 110 and older, gerontology researcher Robert Young offers these three tips for aging: 1. Stay lean and healthy. ... www.globalaging.org/health/us/2006/longevityclues.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

User:Ryoung122 - Misplaced Pages, the 💕Friedman was assisted in his discoveries by gerontology expert Robert Young of the Gerontology Research Group, who verified the records of the people ... en.wikipedia.org/User:Ryoung122 - 42k - Cached - Similar pages

Robert Young (longevity claims researcher) - Misplaced Pages, the free ...Robert Douglas Young (born May 2, 1974 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida) is a gerontology consultant and researcher best known for validating supercentenarian ... en.wikipedia.org/Robert_Young_(longevity_claims_researcher) - 29k - Cached - Similar pages

Gerontology Research Group Index Page, as of Gerontology Research Group. ... Our Chief Claims investigator, Mr. Robert Young of Atlanta, GA, has speculated that there are systematic seasonal variations ... www.grg.org/ - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

Gerontology Research Group Centenarian StudyNow, Mr. Robert Young, GRG Senior Claims Investigator of Atlanta, GA, and Miguel Quesada have graphed the numbers of Supercentenarians over the last 25 ... www.grg.org/calment.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

Aging: The Reality: Demography of Human Supercentenarians -- Coles ...Journals of Gerontology Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences · Large Type Edition ... 1, 1890, Living, 113*, W, M, Robert Young/Louis Epstein ... biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/full/59/6/B579/TA1 - Similar pages

Supercentenarians Tables Validated Supercentenarian Cases Aged 114 ...rial Board, along with other members of the Los Angeles Gerontology Research Group. For fur- .... York and Mr. Robert Young of Atlanta, Georgia. ... www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/rej.2005.8.274 - Similar pages

Supercentenarians Tables Validated Supercentenarian Cases Aged 114 ...Robert Young. 33. England. Anna Eliza Williams. June 2, 1873. Dec. 27, 1987 .... Los Angeles Gerontology Research Group (LA-GRG) . 2007. ... www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/rej.2006.9.503 - Similar pages

Gerontology Institute at Georgia State UniversityApril Ross, Gerontology. Mark Sweatman, Sociology. Ying (Doris) Tang, Gerontology. DaVette Taylor-Harris, Gerontology. Robert Young, Gerontology ... www.gsu.edu/~wwwger/about/admin.html - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Gerontology Institute at Georgia State UniversityGerontology Students Participate in Annual Health Fair ... Mandy Clark and Robert Young Mandy Clark and Robert Young. Mark Sweatman Mark Sweatman ... www2.gsu.edu/~wwwger/students/HealthFair.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

Further, the article originally started as a way to counter fictitious age claims, such as Mary Ramsey Wood. The original nominators nominated the article for deletion in response to an attempt by myself to get Mary Ramsey Wood's article to reflect the obvious truth that her age claim was not credible. After heated debate, it was eventually acknowledged that I was right and now the article reflects reality.

One of the main tenets of Misplaced Pages is that you can click on a 'wikilink' for 'more information.' Given that I am cross-referenced with several other articles, it stands to reason to have the information organized in a way that one can find out about similar cases from each other. Ironically, by linking these aricles, BHG (originally deleting the category 'Erdos numbers') found a link to 'supercentenarian trackers' as well. I do not believe that deletionists that go around deleting educational categories such as 'Erdos numbers' while leaving gobs of gratuitous information about not notable people like Keeley Dorsey or Sunnydale, California are really helping Misplaced Pages. One of the reasons Misplaced Pages has not found greater success is that it is remade in the image of the masses, instead of dealing with what is really important. What can be more important than resarch into the human life span, in an attempt to identify what limits us to a mere 122 years?Ryoung122 13:10, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


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