Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 23:46, 16 November 2007

Now back from a lovely week away in Dorset (some great stuff hacked out of the Jurassic coast and added to the ammonite collection) and accepting requests for Veropedia accounts again. Along with your request, please supply your email address (you can email this to me if you don't want to disclose it publicly), and before you ask, make sure you're not a troll (most people aren't, so you should be fine), and that you can string a coherent sentence together (most people can do this as well). Great article writers are very, very welcome but you don't have to be one, as a lot of the work is copyediting wikignome-style. Cheers, Moreschi 21:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts on User:Moreschi/The Plague? All comments welcome.

Admin philosophy is here, general thoughts are here. Work currently in progress: User:Moreschi/Workspace 1.

• • /Archive No.1
  • /Archive No.2
  • /Archive No.3
  • /Archive No.4
  • /Archive No.5
  • /Archive No.6
  • /Archive No.7

Recently archived

Please check the archives for anything older. Moreschi 20:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppet

User:M.V.E.i. has created a sockpuppet, User:PocketMoon, after being blocked. See and in the Oleg Blokhin article. Also see the Talk Page conversations.--Boguslav 01:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Blocked, checkuser came back positive. Moreschi 10:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

RFA Thank You Note from Jehochman

		Ready to swab the deck!
		Another motley scallawag has joined the crew. Thanks for your comments at my RFA. Arrrgh! - - Jehochman 03:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue X - October 1, 2007 The LGBT studies project has been rather quiet of late. Though we've added over 180 new members in the last year, only a small percentage are active participants. If you haven't visited our project or talk page in a while, please stop by for a look. Also, if you happen to bump into another editor who you feel might enjoy working with us, please extend an invitation. There's lot's do do, and the active members would sincerely appreciate some help. Welcome to the 11 new members that joined us in September: Bu852, JuniorMuruin, Laualoha, JereKrischel, Dybryd, Sexperts, Ctjf83, Allstarecho, Johnandbob, Carlossuarez46, and Carterdriggs! LGBT Project Peer review Our Peer review project is struggling at the present, with only a few people reviewing the articles. While it is certainly possible to submit articles for a general peer review, a review by members of the LGBT community can be of additional value for LGBT specific writing. There are several articles currently up for review on a wide range of topics. At the very least, reading the articles will undoubtedly broaden your intellectual horizons :-) Deletion discussions At the moment, David Le Brocq, Malmö Devilants and Trajectory Hermeneutics are up for deletion review. Please take a look at them and make your voice heard at the deletion review. Articles nominated for deletion also present a challenge for improvement. See what you can do, and watchlist our deletion review page. FA & GA article news Since our last newsletter, Fun Home and GayFest have been promoted to Good Article status. Congratulations to all editors who have worked so hard to improve them! While the T-Z list was promoted to Featured list on September 26, 2007, we have had no articles reach Featured Article status since Homer's Phobia was promoted last March. In fact, one article of our Project was delisted: Andrew Van De Kamp. Please take a look at out listed articles and see if you'd like to try to take one to Featured status (there are almost 8,000 to choose from). Additionally, Conversion therapy has been nominated for Featured status. Please read the article and give feedback at the Feartured Article Candidates page. (See also our FA-class list.) Pederasty article controversy The Pederasty articles continue to be a point of controversy both within and outside of our community. Various editors have suggested that to include them as LGBT Project related somehow taints the project and brings Misplaced Pages into disrepute. Other editors have stated that the articles, and especially the Pederasty article, are part of the core of LGBT studies. Well meaning editors continue to remove our tags from the articles themselves as well as the talk pages. If you have time, please read the articles and watchlist them to protect them from vandalism and well meaning but counterproductive edits. List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people The list of LGBT people has survived its 4th nomination for deletion. Please watchlist this list to protect it from vandalism and unsourced additions. There are many in Misplaced Pages who would like to see this Featured status list removed from the project. It is up to us to keep it to such a high caliber that it never is removed. David Shankbone Our project member David Shankbone is now working as a journalist for Wikinews, as well as continuing to improve our project and Misplaced Pages as a whole with his photographs. A sincere thank you goes out to him for all of his hard work. Misplaced Pages would not shine nearly as brightly without your contributions, David. Barbara Gittings The surviving life partner of prominent LGBT rights activist Barbara Gittings recently called one of our editors and, among other things, complimented us on what a great job our project is doing on Misplaced Pages. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this project, either through their article edits or support for other project members. We really are making an difference here! Member assistance Some of our project members have been having difficulties related to editing on the encyclopedia. If you are feeling frustrated or distressed by your editing experience, please don't keep it to yourself. Misplaced Pages is a collaborative effort, and we are all here to help one another. Drop a line on our talkpage or on another editor's page, and other members of the LGBT project will happily give you the support you want and need. Lastly, Halloween is just around the corner. More than most holidays, Halloween is a holiday embraced by and tailor made to our community (though God only knows why we are invisible in the Halloween article here. Perhaps somebody would like to rectify that editing oversight). Have fun, everybody, and remember to both trick and treat! To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

Delivered on 17:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC).

Mail

You have mail Hiberniantears 21:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC) Thanks! Hiberniantears 21:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Moreschi 21:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Go Away

Where do you advice us to go exactly? Arbitration being the highest dispute resolution process makes it impossible for us to "go away". We have concerns and problems, which need to be addressed. And ignoring them will only make them worse. Also just out of curiosity can I ask you why HajjiPiruz was blocked, for reverting or not justifying his edit? --VartanM 22:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

That thread was not productive. It had degenerated into nothing more than everyone whinging at everybody else - the participants in the wars, and the admins trying to keep the battles under control. No one really had a genuine complaint. Write some articles and next time someone really does something wrong, come and talk to me rationally and reasonably.

I have no idea why Hajji Piruz was blocked. I was not involved in that decision at any stage. Judging purely by his block log, he seems to have exceeded his revert limitation. Cheers, Moreschi 22:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey

Now starring on ANI . --Folantin 11:20, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Kalkan

Hey, can you please (semi)protect Kalkan? It seems to me that since July 2006, some anons have been reinserting the same commercial unnecessary links. In my opinion, it would be best to remove all external links now, but I leave it upto you. Last few times, I left one link, as the article is short on references. I think that was a mistake in handling that anon. I vaguely remember some wiki website where one requests page protection. Which site was it? Thanks Deniz_C 13:52, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorted. In future, try WP:RFPP? Cheers, Moreschi 13:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

More mail

More mail, new, unrelated topic. Hiberniantears 15:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Cascading protection

Please disable the "" option on your userpage, as it causes some templates to be protected as well. Cheers, Melsaran (talk) 16:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it ~ Riana ⁂ 16:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

DYK Update needed

If you are online an update is overdue and DYK has a backlog. Could you do the update?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:52, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, David Mestel 15:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

FL Main page proposal

You either nominated a WP:FLC or closed such a nomination this year. As such, you are the type of editor whose opinion I am soliciting. We now have over 400 featured lists and seem to be promoting in excess of 30 per month of late (41 in August and 42 in September). When Today's featured article (TFA) started (2004-02-22), they only had about 200 featured articles and were barely promoting 20 new ones per month. I think the quality of featured lists is at least as good as the quality of featured articles was when they started appearing on the main page. Thus, I am ready to open debate on a proposal to institute a List of the Day on the main page with nominations starting November 1 2007, voting starting December 1 2007 and main page appearances starting January 1 2008. For brevity, the proposal page does not discuss the details of eventual main page content, but since the work has already been done, you should consider this proposal assuming the eventual main page will resemble either an excerpted list format or an abbreviated text format. The proposal page does not debate whether starting with weekly list main page entries would be better than daily entries. However, I suspect persons in favor of weekly lists are really voicing opinions against lists on the main page since neither TFA nor Picture of the day started as weekly endeavors, to the best of my knowledge. Right now debate seems to be among support for the current selective democratic/consensus based proposal, a selective dictatorial approach like that used at WP:TFA or a non-selective first in line/calendar approach like that used at WP:POTD. See the List of the Day proposal and comment at WP:LOTDP and its talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Turkish Views of the So Called Armenian Genocide

Thanks for closing that. I was really getting tired of tagging all the anon SPAs. Mr.Z-man 19:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A quick infusion of common sense solves many problems. If they start causing more problems, just gently place them in front of my banhammer. Cheers, Moreschi 19:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank goodness you closed this AfD! Bearian 19:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

In an ideal world, a bot would automatically delete articles which incorporate words to avoid (e.g. "so-called") directly into an article title. MastCell 20:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

"I do hereby nominate Riana to rollback and block Flavius B until such time as I return."

Some sort of training session, this? :) Have a good break. ~ Riana ⁂ 19:01, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

RfA Thanks

Thanks, Moreschi! Thank you for your support in my RfA. It was a success, and I look forward to getting started! Hiberniantears 17:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Bharatveer

This arbitration case has closed and the final decision can be found at the link above. Bharatveer is subject to a comprehensive editing restriction for one year. He is limited to one revert per page per week (excepting obvious vandalism), and is required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page. If he exceeds this limit, fails to discuss a content reversion, or makes any edits which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, he may be blocked as set forth in the decision's enforcement provision. This notice is given by a Clerk on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. Newyorkbrad 19:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The right decision, I think. Should kill off the disruptive editing without landing us with a new sockfarm to deal with - Kuntan and Hkelkar are quite bad enough as it is. Thank you. Moreschi 19:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Smile

Phoenix 15 (Talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Amygdalohippocampectomy

Hello you have provided a pass for a good article nomination for the article Amygdalohippocampectomy or AH but not removed it from the GAN list nor added it to the Good article list. Should it refer to the 4 ways to select for the surgery, none of which are mentioned namely the the sylvian fissure, the superior temporal sulcus, the middle temporal gyrus, and the fusiform gyrus. 1, 2 Kind Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by SriMesh (talk • contribs) 22:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Help

DYK has a red warning! It's boiling over! Needs update! Mrs.EasterBunny 20:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. Red warning has been fixed. Mrs.EasterBunny 21:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Pro Milone

I don't see any changes. Are they going to happen? Ruslik 05:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but only when I have the time to get around it to it. I'm pretty busy at the moment and don't have the relevant reference material immediately to hand anyway. Whatever you do in the meantime is your choice. Moreschi 08:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Veropedia

Sorry to hear you are leaving, I'm off to different pastures new too. Why doesn't Veropedia have a wp article? I hear Danny is running it, is it an official Jimbo thing, or an ad hoc 'diamond mining' operation? --Joopercoopers 01:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Ad hoc diamond mining, certainly not anything to do with Jimbo. Hey, why don't you sign on? We'd be delighted to have you on board, let me know if you want an account. All Vero "editing" takes places here, so I'm still around WP quite a lot, but trying to stay away from all the tedious drama. We could certainly use someone with your fantastic editing skills. Cheers, Moreschi 13:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

That's tempting if Jimbo's not involved - I'm out of WP in part, because of the laughable management that has let the 'lunatic take over the asylum'. But I'm just slightly dubious as VP's address seems to be identical to Mediawiki's , I wonder if Jimbo's realised his projects a busted flush and set up Veropedia to plug the credibility gap? If this is not the case, then yes please. You can email me if you prefer. Kind regards --Joopercoopers 11:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe Danny's sent you an email about this, but for everyone else here's the explanation: that address is actually a postbox. Danny, who's running Veropedia, lives near the WMF offices, as he used to work there. WMF get their mail sent there, and as Danny lives so near to the postbox, he uses it for Vero as well. But Veropedia has nothing to do with the WikiMedia Foundation or Jimmy Wales, nor would I be involved if it did.

Speaking for myself, I would love to have you on board, as, I'm sure, would Giano and Bishonen. Please let me know your email address and we can set you up with an account. Moreschi 20:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Um, the post-office box is a bad idea- it just looks really bad. I would strongly suggest that another post office box be used. JoshuaZ 01:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

VartanM

One more report , this is really turning into endless task, until parole is applied to everyone equally for constructive editing. Thanks. Atabek 01:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Can Atabek explain which policy or guideline I violated. Another baseless report. VartanM 03:55, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, it took Atabek two days, since his return from WikiVacation to report User:Fedayee, User:Andranikpasha, User:MarshallBagramyan and me. If this isn't a battleground approach I don't know what is. VartanM 06:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

I suppose some think I am a son-of-a-bitch, but I am definitely not. If people are kind ot me, I am always kind in return. I do try very hard to let most trolling roll off me, but there does come a point that it is very hard to ignore. Anyway, I appreciate you unblocking me recently...I was offline the entire time anyway, so was rather surprised when I was blocked for removing a warning about the impending block simply with the edit summary of "bye"...oh well.--MONGO 05:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Really, the failure of the arbitrators to give us any sort of clear resolution on the matter of attack sites is more to blame here than any one person, or persons. Moreschi 13:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Veropedia thanks

Hi Moreschi, thanks for the account. I went over there, and now I'm so confused! The help system there needs help. Is there a "Veropedia for Dummies" somewhere? --Kyoko 12:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Another question: there's a forums link. Does that require separate registration? --Kyoko 12:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'll deal with that later. I get the feeling that I'll still be more active here than there, because the learning curve is much steeper there. Thanks again. --Kyoko 12:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Its still in development, you are free to stop on at http://en.veropedia.com/irc/irc.cgi. I can help you over IRC, we might have some bugs in our system, who knows! —— Eagle101 19:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Curious. I never heard nothing about this Veropedia thing, and it was only by stalking your edits (I wanted to find find out if you'd found other bad links to Strathcarron) that I tripped over it. I must be living in a cave. If you are after subject experts, User:Dr Steven Plunkett is a genuine, published, Anglo-Saxonist, and expert on things East Anglian, and a nice guy too. He's been a bit under the weather, but perhaps you can tempt him to try Veropedia. Toodle pip! Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Angus! Good to talk to you again! I will certainly talk to Dr Plunkett and try to get him on board, thank you for the heads-up.

And while we're tempting him, how about we try to tempt you, eh? It's fun work that benefits enwiki, as you'll see if you check out the FAQ here. Have a read through that and check the site out generally. Please do let me know if you want an account to upload stuff and I'll get it it done ASAP. Cheers, Moreschi 23:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I would also recommend Antandrus, if you haven't already snagged him.  :) --Iamunknown 23:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Got him, though he's been busy recently and I don't think he's really had much time to upload stuff. What about you, though Mr Unknown? We don't have you, do we? Would you consider signing on? All help is welcome. Cheers, Moreschi 23:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Undelete request

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Shining hope for community. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article or speedy-deleted it, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Brian 13:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank You

For your kind words regarding my revision of the Propertius article. As my user page shows, I'm an amateur classicist, and am interested in these kind of projects, and it seems the new Veropedia is the place to do this seriously. Since you are "out of the office" for the week, I'll direct my request for an account to one of your suggested admins. Again, Thx Chjones 60656 20:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for October 22nd, 2007.

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Barnstar

		The Special Barnstar
		Thanks for advertising Veropedia on your userpage. Unusual reason yes, but it has given me hope and purpose when editing Misplaced Pages. I now know the hard work of dedicated users won't dissolve into garbage and be ridiculed with graffiti. The quality can be preserved! Gizza 09:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Moreschi 08:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

RfC Fairness

Hi Moreschi:

I'm putting this note here so as not to clutter your ArbCom Election Q & A page. As noted there, my question re RfC fairness was not aimed at you. I'm asking all the ArbCom candidates the same question.

Having said that, my only experience of the RfC process has been in two Homeopathy RfC's so I certainly had those in mind in asking my question.

My concern about fairness did not come from your ruling as an admin.

During the RfC's about Whig and Sm565, I raised issues of fairness relating to 1) editors with double standards and 2) an admin (not yourself) who was very obviously not neutral in a particular discussion and yet made a ruling in the RfC.

I don't know if the unfairness I perceived in those two RfC's changed the end results much, but it certainly gave me a poor impression of the prevailing standard of fairness.

Thanks.

I gave you this long explanation to be as clear as possible on this. If you want to explore this further, I'm available, but I'm sure you have more urgent matters on your plate. Good luck in the election. Wanderer57 01:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to let me know of this. I suspect there are still issues on which we differ, but we can leave those for later, and you've certainly taken a lot off my mind. Cheers, Moreschi 08:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Your answers

While I'm not giving out any rankings for candidates' answers to me questions in terms of how good the answers are, I can say that your answers have thus far been easily the most entertaining. All in a very good way. :-) Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Cheers :) Moreschi 08:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

wtf?

Eh? Who did you block for one month? Do you even know what a dynamic IP is? -Kn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.91.254.21 (talk) 17:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't care if I block two-thirds of the subcontinent. I just want you gone. You fail to understand this very basic point: coming from you, what you say has no credibility. So you might as well keep quiet. Moreschi 19:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Then do us some lulz with that two-third block and honour your own words by deleting a couple of articles I wrote. I won't call you names in spite of your puerile ejaculations (here and on the mailing list) because you support an encyclopedia à la Dbachmann, rather than à la Hindu retards. 59.91.254.63 03:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2007/Candidate_statements/Moreschi/Questions_for_the_candidate#Question_from_Dihydrogen_Monoxide_.28answered.29_.28more_questions_added.29

U got question, lulz. — H₂O —  00:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

ZOMG, dude, your questions, like, totally, kick ass! Sick stuff, baby. Moreschi 14:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom elections

As Aragorn once said, you have my sword. Your userpage is one of the truthful pages on the wiki, full stop. Will 15:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Glad someone appreciates it. Cheers, Moreschi 15:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of the plague and the constant EE war... can you have a look over this RfC? Will 16:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Moreschi. I see you're going for it: good luck. I feel compelled to mention that there's an extraneous apostrophe on your candidate statement (one of the "it's") that you may like to address? I don't correct other users' posts, particularly on such an important and personal page, but I'd hate you to lose support from any pedantic floating voters! --RobertG ♬ talk 17:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks for picking up on this. Now I feel like an idiot - fix your own grammar first before you point out logs in the articles of others, copy-editor! Cheers, and thanks for the "good luck" message. Moreschi 17:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Ultra-nationalist alert

Uh-oh. Check out Miyokan's deleted comments about me here . Ben Velvel had a hand in writing the Russia article too. 'Nuff said. Worth keeping an eye on? --Folantin 14:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely, just from reading the article, even if I hadn't come across this. Moreschi 20:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Um, right (!). Incidentally, his previous incarnation was Ilya1166. --Folantin 20:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

What was wrong with this edit - it IS pure speculation. How can people know with certainty what Russia/Gazprom's intentions are? Russia/Gazprom maintain that they are simply seeking market rates and no longer want to subsidize other countries, yet as I can see you two both instantly believe the reports that they are using it for political leverage. You need to stop playing the 'nationalist' card all the time.--Miyokan 01:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me for being less than impressed. No one takes those denials seriously, as you very well know. All that needed was a reference to one of the billion-odd analytical articles in highly reputable papers that have been published on this topic recently. Moreschi 10:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Could you just reinstate the NPOV tag on the "Russia" history section? I'm on three reverts. As you know, it's riddled with bias. --Folantin 11:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

BTW, you have mail (not that urgent). --Folantin 12:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Those 'billion odd' media reports mean nothing, analytical articles or not, the fact remain is that they are remain purely speculative and hypotheses. The idea that Russia wants to stop subsidising ex-Soviet states and receive market prices for its oil and gas is not so farfetched to dismiss. I have read plenty of articles (non-Russian) which agree that Russia is justified in not wanting to subsidise ex-Soviet states. By the way, the political leverage argument might have been more convincing if Russia had not have increased the prices to its allies, Belarus and Armenia, as well.--Miyokan 13:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment, I find Folantin's referring to Miyokan as "ultra-nationalist" an appallingly undeserved attack on editor's character. As for seeing the history repeat itself when FAC of History of Russia was derailed, I share Miyokan's view that there are some similarities. First, editors insert the referenced but POVed or WP:UNDUE or otherwise tendentious info that is out of place in the article with such a wide scope. This is followed by a revert war to "restore referenced information". Then, the other side is forced to add more to at least give appropriate context to those references, thus sacrificing the brevity and the text flow to restore the NPOV. But with the article's flow being violated, the article cannot qualify. This is a valid concern and this has happened before at other FAC's as well. --Irpen 17:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh you do, do you? Birds of a feather flock together as ever on Misplaced Pages. I have one inestimable advantage when editing articles on Eastern Europe: I don't come from there. What's more, I've actually read history books on the subject by scholars who didn't die in the 19th century. The two articles under discussion have severe POV problems and any expert on the subject would tear them to shreds within seconds. There is no way they should be on our main page as examples of the best we can do. Of course, users like Ben Velvel and Miyokan have no conception what neutrality is. Miyokan's response to my comments was to fantasise that I was a Georgian. This whole nationalist mentality is corrupt and it's ruining huge sections of Misplaced Pages's content. I've had enough of it. --Folantin 17:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

That's all nice and dandy but if you choose to reply to my posts, please address the concerns it raised. I am impressed by your claimed background and all but your boasting about it is somewhat off-topic. And so are your ill-considered remarks about some birds and Misplaced Pages which are both off-topic and inappropriate. --Irpen 17:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

It's all on topic. As Moreschi says, this is the plague wrecking Misplaced Pages. The content problems won't be sorted until we fix this underlying problem of nationalist gang warfare. I attempted to follow Misplaced Pages policy on History of Russia by using references from up-to-date scholarly sources in English. Ben Velvel and Co. didn't. This is the way NPOV should be fixed round here, not by coming to some compromise between warring national factions. (Hey, I'm not boasting about my expertise either. The average sixth-former could make a better job of some of these articles than the current crowd. I'd really like to see genuine experts come here to write these pages but they tend to get driven off by all the nationalist lunacy. Who can blame them?). --Folantin 17:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually the more I think about this, the more I'm riled at you, Irpen. I used to have respect for you as an editor but now I see exactly why ArbCom pulled you up for violation of AGF. I attempt to maintain a modicum of neutrality and I get attacked in xenophobic terms by two Russian nationalist editors who are hardly the jewels in Misplaced Pages's crown. You naturally jump to the defence of your compatriots (or fellow Russophones). This is another problem with the nationalist gang warfare round here: even the half-decent editors will stick up for the rotten apples if they're on the right side. --Folantin 20:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

You too huh? Funny how the same handful of editors seem to crop up again and again at centre of all this EE angst. In the past I've been called an Estonian ultra-nationalist, even though I am from Australia! Sheer lunacy. Just recently I was reported by Irpen to ANI for moving a page as innocuous as Estonian pirates to Estonian Viking Expeditions. The move was done after quite an extensive RM discussion and a compromise was found. See the gory details here Talk:Estonian_pirates#Estonian_Viking_Expeditions. He even reverted my attempt to close off the debate over the initial move proposal I initiated, which was obviously now a dead horse. This kind of antagonism and routine assumption of bad faith has no place in Misplaced Pages. Martintg 00:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Um, yeah, the idea that some editors might have a general interest in history and aren't here to put the most positive spin on their nations' pasts is obviously completely alien to some Wikipedians. They seem to have their own unique interpretation of policy too: WP:SOAPBOX = Misplaced Pages is a soapbox; WP:BATTLEGROUND= Misplaced Pages is a battleground; WP:RS = use Russian sources, especially 19th century ones or Soviet-era school textbooks; and - a new one- WP:AFG = assume Folantin is Georgian (I like to edit wearing my big papakhi, eating lavash and listening to my Katie Melua CDs while my mafia friends are out stealing Russian editors' cars). --Folantin 08:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

...or something along those lines. I'm astounded by the way people seem to be turning a blind eye to faults in the Russia articles; it was essentially a propaganda piece in a big way, and even though it's improved, there are still considerable issues, not least with the use of sources (19th-century Russian stuff should not be used, what's wrong with modern scholarship? Nor should Britannica, come to that, or at least not to any great extent. I'm uneasy about citing fellow tertiary sources, and while you might point to my extensive use of Grove, that's not only specialist but often more of a secondary source than it is tertiary, not to mention the fact that all articles are written by experts). I'd be unhappy with any article that was evidently written with such an obvious agenda in mind passing FAC. Moreschi 17:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

All right, I waited for a while (with some astonishment) to let you guys enjoy this friendly discussion not interfering for some time but I figured I would comment at this point. First and foremost, this very thread was started in a grievous attack mode. Calling someone an "ultra-nationalist" is serious stuff. Using Folantin's terminology, very few editors are truly "jewels in Misplaced Pages's crown." Granted, Miyokan is not one of them but also none of us at this page are. For jewels, look for editors who rolled out dozens of FA's or so (I can name some) and none of us yet pulled it off and unlikely will. My initial observation about Folantin's using this page as a forum to attack another editor stands but it only got worse by his further posts. He invokes the sloppy ArbCom decision from the case the ArbCom totally screwed up and he knows that. The particular FoF about Irpen and AGF is sufficiently commented by the community here, here and here. What's more, Folantin engages in further sarcastic mode badmouthing Miyokan more since the format of this page (third party's talk) allows to do that with near impunity, unlike at ANI or article's talk page. I am not here to defend Miyokan's POV, which is obviously very Russophile, but the editor puts a great deal of work into the article, sources his edits and if you have any issues, Folantin, use normal DR channels rather than third party talk pages where you can resort to such attacks with near impunity.

Not surprisingly, as soon as Irpen is bashed at any page, Martin quickly shows up, even if it is out of the view page which he quickly finds in some mysterious way. So, Martin just made an "innocuous good faith move" but an "antagonistic" Irpen, with his "routine assumption of bad faith" reports him. Well, diffs don't lie and Moreschi, can see the deleted edits in diffs too. . This was an assessment from an uninvolved third party and Martin's continuous denying does do him credit.

As for the Moreschi's reaction, I am, frankly, surprised. A user uses this page to launch an attack on another contributor and there is no clear and open reprimand from the page's owner. Perhaps there was some criticism in email communications that ensued (I hope so) but the attack made on-wiki calls for an on-wiki response to get a message through. There does not seem to be any sensitive material to warrant taking the communication off-line and it does not bode well with the ongoing ArbCom run, especially since lack of transparency in decision making is often considered one of the major problems of the ArbCom's modus operandi. --Irpen 16:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Irpen, I'm sorry to be able to confirm from experience what ArbCom says about your failure to assume good faith. I expected better of you. Miyokan was the first to attack me as the difference linked at the top of the page shows . He then accused me of being a Georgian nationalist POV-pusher. I've checked his block log: under his previous incarnation of Ilya1166 he acquired four blocks for arguing over things like the size of Russia's army in relation to the rest of the world and (inevitably) the bloody Bronze soldier of Tallinn. I reserve the right to to call a spade a spade. One thing I can say in Miyokan's favour is that he is not as bad as Ben Velvel, whose side you also took against me. I attempted to inject some neutrality into those articles and was accused of belonging to the wrong gang. I repeat: I do not come from Central or Eastern Europe and I don't have a dog in these fights. You, however, do. It's no great secret that various "national" editors back those on the "right side". Here's a disgraceful instance (to your credit you were not involved. as far as I can see): . The user in question was allowed to flame on for another three or four months before his inevitable block. (And yes, I'm quite aware that the "other side" can behave just as disruptively. Digwuren thoroughly deserved his ArbCom ban). --Folantin 16:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Folantin, I am not going to run around every page you post to defend myself against your new accusations (this time that I "supported" Ben Vevel against yourself.) I've seen many fantasies posted around and if I jump to debunk each and every of them, I would be left with no time to do anything else. "The difference linked at the top of the page " was not an attack on you. You are not called any names there and this is an editors observation, fair or not, which you may want to argue with but you can't call it an attack. I have not seen him calling you a "Georgian nationalist POV pusher" but even if he did, you have no excuse to retaliate in calling him a "Russian ultra-nationalist" and even less so to do it not to his face but at the third party talk where he may not even find (or answer) your accusations. I read the current talk:Russia and I must say Miyokan's conduct there is much better than yours and if you want to accuse me in being partial, ask anyone. Your not coming from EE does not make you a better editor and does not make you better anything at all to boast about it. As for Digwuren, I have no opinion of whether he should have been banned (I asked for a way to curtail him) but ArbCom thoroughly blew that case as it has done with most all complex cases because it is not really functioning and is unable deal with complex issues.

You for some reason choose to invoke the MVEi's incident even admitting that I have nothing to do with that. I can add that I was repeatedly involved in trying to curb MVEi in the past. I am here long enough to not expect apologies and know better than to respond to every single wild accusation and the only reason I commented here was that this is the page of the ArbCom's candidate and I find his involvement in this discussion disturbing. --Irpen 16:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

You inserted yourself into this discussion from out of the blue without bothering to check up on the background. Do your own research before you start sticking your oar in other people's arguments. This editor has clearly got a bee in his bonnet about Georgians and Estonians and I'm supposed to believe this has nothing to do with nationalism? The only problem with the ArbCom decision was its utter toothlessness. Quite a few more editors should have been booted out if content was our real concern. Talking of content, FA is a complete lottery. I'm still amazed that the History of Russia article managed to pass with three or four paragraphs about post-Soviet Russia and not one mention of the war in Chechnya. Quality control and the most basic knowledge at many of the Russian historical articles seems non-existent. --Folantin 17:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

PS: And here you are defending Ben Velvel on the History of Russia talk page, including his use of 19th century sources in Russian in a Featured Article. . --Folantin 17:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

PPS. Thanks for finding this link. I find it so important to be preserved for the record that replaced it with the permanent url that won't expire. This shows the same conduct problems, Folantin. You accuse another editor is no less than "xenophobic views" (literally) and attacked the respected sources on the wholesale basis. I agreed back then and I would agree any time that WP:UNDUE is an issue of a very high priority in any controversial topic but my criticism of your conduct was totally valid and, in view of this repeated occurrence when you resort to attack other editor's character so grievously as accusing them is xenophobia, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. --Irpen 21:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

FA is a lottery but writing great articles is not. One can tell good content from bad content whether the article carries an FA label or not and if you want to become a "jewel editor", invoking your terminology, you better pull out some great articles instead of bad-mouthing editors and/or boasting how well-versed you are in history topics. The latter boasting has zero value, btw, as Essjay case has shown.

The diff you bring this time () is indeed an unfortunate slip. Still, you manage to misrepresent that one too. Firstly, you are not called there a "Georgian nationalist". This is just not there. The observation of the editor that Russia-related topics are attacked by certain editors whose countries were subjugated by Russia in the past is true and for some examples check Molobo's edits to the History of Russia, Tyutchev, Ded Moroz and even Russian-Japanese War, check Piotrus' edits to Russian Enlightenment or, best yet, Digwuren's edits to Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya (the topic that has no relation to Estonia whatsoever.) It is wrong to mislabel all Estonians, Poles, Georgians, Russians as POV-pushers but editor correctly reports the observation about those from these communities who are POV-pushers. There is nothing we can do about that. You in turn, come to a third-party talk page and attack this editor ruthlessly and the owner of the page does nothing about it. That's my main point. --Irpen 17:45, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't own this page. I have no control over what people post here and have no more authority on this, my user talk, than I do on the rest of Misplaced Pages.

In all honesty, I find little sympathy for Miyokan. He's got 4 blocks in the past for disruptive editing, all relating to Russian topics AFAICR, and, Irpen, verifiability does not equate to neutrality. Reviewing the edits the impression I get is of violations of NPOV, WP:SYNTH, and in particular the "undue weight" clause. These are fundamental polices being violated here, and when allied to a blatantly nationalist POV, as you yourself acknowledge, we have a problem. Russia was much, much worse (I'm not sure how much of this is Miyokan's fault, but he must bear some responsibility) until it started copping serious flak at the FAC for glaring POV issues. Even now the sourcing is inadequate and several POV issues remain. It would be a complete waste of my time to try and fix these problems because I know how much resistance I would meet, and I'd rather spend my time sorting out Gluck, where at least I don't have to worry about nationalist edit-warring.

Nor do I have an axe to grind here. Digwuren's ban was deserved (just remembered that I deleted Soviet occupation denialism, didn't he write that?); I was the one who got rid of M.V.E.i; Martintg's attacks on you, Irpen, leave me cold. I didn't take any notice, you needn't have done so either. My personal background leaves me fundamentally disinterested in online Eastern European ethnic warfare, except in terms of the disruption it causes on Misplaced Pages. A sustained pattern of POV-pushing, such as we're seeing from Miyokan, (yes, if you want diffs, I can provide plenty) can never be justified. You yourself said Miyokan's edits were Russophile. This is a persistent violation of NPOV, which is our most important policy. There's a problem here that needs to be solved. The bias in Miyokan's edits cannot be brushed under the carpet. All this is pretty straightforward stuff, but I guess you're entitled to disagree with me. Either way, see you in less than a month - but please consider what I have said about neutrality in the mean-time. Moreschi

P.S - I would dispute that the ArbCom isn't functioning. It is - just functioning very badly. Moreschi 17:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict - reply to Irpen) Right, so an editor assumes massive bad faith about me and I'm supposed not to call him out on his motives. Firstly, you are not called there a "Georgian nationalist". That's sophistry. The implications of what he said are obvious to anyone not blinded by bias. And pointing out the absence of the Chechen War from an article on the "History of Russia equals "boasting how well-versed you are in history topics"? Anybody with the slightest knowledge of the subject could have spotted that glaring omission. You then go on to attack my contribution history, about which you know next to nothing. I never descended to that type of ad hominem with you, Irpen. I used to think you were a pretty decent editor. Obviously national chauvinist brainrot can affect even the best of users. BTW I asked Moreschi to keep an eye on that page because he has a well-known interest in combatting the "nationalist plague". --Folantin 18:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Moreschi, I never said you have any special "authority over this page". But as an administrator, and especially, the Arbcom candidate, you have a responsibility to react to posts like those by Folantin, wherever they are posted. Accusing fellow editors in xenophobia and "ultra-nationalism" is no small beer. In only few grievous cases this may be justified and Miyokan, jewel or not, gave no excuse to be called such names. Of course you cannot be everywhere and react to every policy violation around. I don't have a problem with that. But when someone uses your talk page to post such stuff and your reaction is not to reprimand the attacker but give him a pat on his shoulder and send him an email of some unknown content, I do have a problem with such reaction.

X-phile editors are part of the Misplaced Pages reality. It is also a part of an academic reality. The most widely recognized modern historian of Poland, Norman Davies is widely considered to have Polonophile views, a charge he does not even deny. Miyokan's edits do sometimes violate WP:NPOV but so are edits of most everyone and so may even writings of the respected historians, from Davies to Jan T. Gross. I was not closely involved with the current Russia page but reading its talk it is easy to make up one's mind on who acts worse there, the "non-neutral" Miyokan or arrogant Folantin. The problem of possible non-neutrality of even best-sourced edits is a real one and it does need to be solved. I proposed the solution to an ArbCom once but Arbcom is "too busy" to even read the cases they rule on, much less comment on them. Whatever the solution is, it's not what Folantin's was doing at the article's talk and even less what he posts here. --Irpen 21:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

"Miyokan, jewel or not, gave no excuse to be called such names". He gave plenty of excuse. I'm not messing around protecting the finer feelings of users like that (per WP:SPADE). "...so may even writings of the respected historians, from Davies to Jan T. Gross". Read our policy on WP:V, which both of those historians pass with flying colours. I wrote this only today regarding these edit wars: " insist on the enforcement of Misplaced Pages's policies, especially verifiability and reliable sources. Priority must be given to up-to-date sources which have been peer-reviewed and/or issued by respected publishing houses. Ideally, sources should be in English. This is an English-language encyclopaedia and the only language we can rely on all editors having in common is English. References in articles on controversial topics to sources in foreign languages (especially if they are not widely spoken) should be avoided if at all possible. Improving the quality of sourcing will inevitably improve the article". That is what I attempted at History of Russia. My experiences there made me very wary of investing more of my time and energy trying the same thing on Russia. You continue your personal attacks on me (you can't even spell my name correctly). It's been pretty obvious where your sympathies have lain all along. You, a Russophone, will back your fellow Russophones. I don't have to justify my actions to such an "impartial" observer any further. You are part of the problem here. Further discussion would be futile and I consider this conversation at an end. --Folantin 21:46, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I initially thought of not responding since Folantin claimed to be leaving a party but since he came back after that, I guess he chose to change his mind. First, I apologize for misspelling his username. It was totally unintentional. I corrected that.

As for the rest, English sources have an advantage of course, because they can be checked by more people but so are the online sources. However, insisting on only English sources' being used because others are "inconvenient" is the same as insisting on using the online sources only (because those are also easier to verify). There are plenty of books that are out of print (and I don't mean just the 19th century ones) that are very difficult to get one's hands on to verify, even more difficult than to find someone who knows a foreign language to verify the reference. So, we should use English sources when we can and we should use non-English sources when their usage is warranted. The reputation of the source's author and publisher is all that matters for the source compliance, not the language, and I would use works of Aron Gurevich who, according to the University of Chicago Press, "has long been considered one of the world's leading medievalists and a pioneer in the field of historical anthropology" in articles hundred times over someone's Ph. D. thesis even if the latter is available online and is published just last year. Same applies to old sources. They may be used under specific circumstances and with the due care as I explained multiple times. including in the link I gave above. This discussion belongs elsewhere though. --Irpen 23:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Irpen, I'd simply feel a good deal more sympathetic if I didn't think mostly everything Folantin is saying is corrent. I'm not a complete blockhead; unlike most admins I am capable of looking at content, and the edits of Miyokan and Ben-Velvel do give me a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. The nationalist pro-Russia bias can be smelt a mile off. Why not call a spade a spade? This is flagrant POV editing. It's a much more serious problem than Folantin calling out these people. I'm not especially bothered about what names you call these fellas - can they please just stop infecting Misplaced Pages with their bias? This is the real problem - why you will not recognise this, I don't know! Moreschi 23:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Moreschi, rather than baselessly scream that I am a POV pusher, show clear examples of where I have displayed "flagrant POV editing". Irpen, I hope you saw my comment in the other topic below, where Moreschi declared that I had turned Russia into a heavily biased pro-Lenin article. Moreschi declared "several instances of shoddy sourcing and peacock language relating to Lenin, a tag here is justifed", and, "I hope our revolution will receive such POV praise as Lenin is given in this miserable article". Such comments are worrying to say the least, given that the only time Lenin is referred to in the article is, "After Lenin's death in 1924..." and, "While Lenin called for world revolution, Stalin and his supporters began to move away from earlier Bolshevik policies and towards Socialism in one country, which taught that the Soviet Union should aim to build socialism by itself, rather than work for world revolution.". Yes, Lenin certainly is given gushing amounts of praise in that article. This shows a clear assumption of bad faith towards me by Moreschi.--Miyokan 08:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Miyokan, when you put this article up FAC it contained the following statements: "Lenin emphasised the importance of bringing electricity to all corners of Russia and modernising industry and agriculture. He was very concerned about creating a free universal health care system for all, the rights of women, and teaching all Russian people to read and write". The source: Lenin himself. It now contains this (as if there were any difference between Lenin and "the Bolsheviks" up to his death): "The Bolsheviks introduced free universal health care, education and social-security benefits, as well as the right to work and free housing. Women's rights were greatly increased through new political, civic, economic and family codes aimed to wipe away centuries-old inequalities at one stroke. The new government granted women full right to vote, passed divorce and civil laws that made marriage a voluntary relationship, eliminated the distinction between legitimate and illegitimate children, enacted employment rights for women equal to those for men, gave women equal pay and introduced universal paid maternity leave. Soviet Russia became the first country in the world with full freedom of divorce, and where abortion was legal." (Women were granted the "full right to vote" in a one-party state? Wow, generous. Maybe we should add a bit about how Lenin and his comrades gave every Soviet citizen their own chocolate teapot too). I will take no further part in the Russia FAC. If it passes, that's just further proof the whole FA process is broken. Russian (or Russophone) users have prevented me from adding NPOV tags to this article. I don't intend to get involved in a futile edit war. The tags aren't really necessary anyway, since the bias is plain to see. --Folantin 08:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for the Veropedia logon. Will start getting myself acquainted. Is there a problem uploading articles that meet the criteria but aren't on the "todo" lists? AKRadecki 00:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

None whatsoever. Pop culture trivia is generally avoided, but encyclopedic material that's not on the lists is more than welcome. Moreschi 10:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK red alert!

I see that you may be online or edited within the past hour. DYK is late! Next update is full and ready to go. Help appreciated in moving to the main page. Thank you. Archtransit 22:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		I'm awarding you this prestigious Defender of the Wiki Barnstar because you have gone above and beyond to prevent Misplaced Pages from being used for fraudulent purposes. Wikidudeman 19:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Cheers, Moreschi 20:27, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Mail

Read and replied. --Folantin 09:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Pontic Greek Genocide

Hi, could you check this article, the citations that i added are from serious academical works of historians without any pro-Turkish bias at all, Arnold J. Toynbee and Taner Akcam. So that is most definitely not a case of nationalist `plague`..And article has been in this shape for over months..

However that is exactly what these two users, Kekrops and Nikosilver, has been doing in several articles and now in that one. They dont discuss anything, and occasionally show up making unrelated comments or keep repeating the same things giving the impression that they actually participate in the discussion when in fact they dont..

You can see the `debate` in here: Talk:Pontic Greek Genocide# Kekrops

There are other sources as well, seemingly from a non-pro Turkish perspective, about the atrocities of the Greek army in the same period of time:

`The short-sightedness of both Lloyd George and President Wilson seems incredible, explicable only in terms of the magic of Venizelos and an emotional, perhaps religious, aversion to the Turks. For Greek claims were at best debatable, perhaps a bare majority, more likely a large minority in the Smyrna Vilayet, which lay in an overwhelmingly Turkish Anatolia. The result was an attempt to alter the imbalance of populations by genocide, and the counter determination of Nationalists to erase the Greeks, a feeling which produced bitter warfare in Asia Minor for the next two years until the Kemalists took Smyrna in 1922 and settled the problem by burning down the Greek quater..` By C. J. Lowe, M. L Dockrill Published 2002 Routledge ISBN 0415265975-- --laertes d 09:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Policy on tagging

What's the policy on NPOV tags? In other words, are there any rules on who gets to remove them? --Folantin 11:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I wish there were a policy on NPOV tags. Tagging warfare of all kinds is, as we know, becoming increasingly common, but we have zero policy on this. I remember having a long conversation with Digwuren, of all people, on this. It was about the one thing we agreed on; Misplaced Pages has to work out a code of practice relating to tagging issues. Something else to add the to "to-do" list. Moreschi 12:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, shame. I'm not asking you to get involved in a revert war and reinstate it, because this is a waste of time. It's pretty obvious this guy is misrepresenting his own sources (see talk page for details - it's not just the "Georgian" stuff, you really have to compare the linked reference to get the full flavour of the monkey business going on here). I think any objective reader can see for themselves the blatant bias without needing a tag, so we shouldn't worry too much. There's no way this is an FA. I thought about taking it to GAR, but maybe we should leave it as a Good Article as a testimony to the wonderful effectiveness of the GA crowd ;). --Folantin 12:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

GAR? I should certainly hope not! This is a wonderful stick to beat GA around the head with when the revolution comes! I hope our revolution will receive such POV praise as Lenin is given in this miserable article. Moreschi 12:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I find it your comments about Lenin's alleged glorification in the article hilarious ("several instances of shoddy sourcing and peacock language relating to Lenin", and "I hope our revolution will receive such POV praise as Lenin is given in this miserable article") given that the only time Lenin is referred to in the article is "After Lenin's death in 1924..." and, "While Lenin called for world revolution, Stalin and his supporters began to move away from earlier Bolshevik policies and towards Socialism in one country, which taught that the Soviet Union should aim to build socialism by itself, rather than work for world revolution.". Yes, Lenin certainly is given gushing amounts of praise in that article.--Miyokan 14:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Early Soviet history in limerick form

There was a great Marxist called Lenin,
Who did two or three million men in.
That's a lot to have done in.
But where he did one in,
That grand Marxist, Stalin, did ten in.
(Robert Conquest) --Folantin 14:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Cascading protection

Moreschi, please could you (temporarily, if you like) remove the cascading protection from your userpage, I was trying to edit User:Sagaciousuk/Verobox/verofy to make the Veropedia into a plain link, but I couldn't because of your userpage protection. Could you please take it off for a day or two so I can do it? Cheers, Qst (talk) 21:58, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Oh, als; you may wish to check out User:Qst/Veropedia, I hope you'll reconsider cutting down your editing :) Qst (talk) 12:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Veropedia Request

Please could I have a Veropedia account? My e-mail address is XXX, and I'll (hopefully be able to copy-edit when time allows.

Yours,

microchip08 15:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK update

The DYK update is over 9 hours too old. I have updated the next update (I've done it before). Would you please update immediately from the next update if you are online? Royalbroil 16:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue XI - November 1, 2007 Hey, Peeps, it's that time of the month again (no not that time — get your mind out of the gutter): time for another monthly edition of the LGBT Project's Love Boat newsletter from your cruise director Miss Julie. So much has been happening this month and I just can't wait to tell you all about it!!! Alice and her harasser Let's start with some good news: Alice and the project lost the bothersome sock puppet who had been disrupting many articles we monitor, and now most of us can edit in relative peace. Congratulations, Alice, for being able to come out of semi-retirement. Benjiboi, on the other hand, has gained an anonymous IP stalker who seems to be more Catholic than the Pope and who has a hard-on for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. We seem to have a sort of Yin and Yang thing going on here, which helps both to keep us in balance and on our toes <bright smiles all around>. Harry Potter and his homosexual teacher Albus Dumbledore got outed this month, and was immediately adopted by our project. The international brouhaha surrounding this disclosure reached all the way to Wikiland, and his article was briefly locked due to homophobic vandalism (as well as well meaning editors who just couldn't believe that that nice man could possibly be gay). This is a wonderful article to add to your watchlist, and will surely give you hours of reverting fun on cold winter days. "My Fellow Americans" On a more serious note, Fireplace has suggested a new article series about LGBT rights in the United States, state by state. This ambitious topic will surely require many editors and a lot of research, but has the potential to add further prestige to our already prestigious project. Same name, same sexuality: a riddle for the ages Francis Bacon (not the new gay one, but the old gay one ... though they're actually both dead, now that I think about it) has also aroused passions here on Misplaced Pages, with editors opposing his sexuality being disclosed in his biography. The always helpful Haiduc has thoughtfully provided any number of sources, but it is slow going getting his point across. Anyone want to lend a hand? Beat writer arouses Irish guy And speaking of passions, Jack Kerouac has inflamed the senses once again with editors, including administrator Irishguy, mounting a spirited defense to keep him as heterosexual as possible for Misplaced Pages purposes. Why? I don't know. Perhaps some of you can drop by the talk page and ask your questions there. I feel certain a stimulating debate will ensue that will be enjoyed by all. Love those Texas Longhorns Did you know that one of our Featured articles, Lawrence v. Texas, lost its shiny gold star? That was a shocker. It has been suggested that we turn our attention to it in an effort to restore it to its former glory. I took a peek, and it does need our help badly. For our American editors, it would seem almost a civic duty to edit it (not that I'm hinting....). Point and Counterpoint Though it was far too intellectual a debate for a mere cruise director like myself to take part in, Intersexuality was certainly a hot topic a week or two ago. The thrust of the debate was over inclusion in our project. Lots of good editors had lots of good opinions. For those too lazy to check out the discussion, we decided to leave it out for now. Drudgery on offer Peer review is, as always, short staffed and seemingly unloved. Wouldn't you feel better about yourself and the world in general if you took a few minutes to read one of the listed articles and offer some helpful advice? I know I'd feel better if you did. "My Fellow Americans" redux The article LGBT movements in the United States certainly raised eyebrows last week, especially when it was discovered that copyrighted content had been added to our article. Tragedy was averted at the last minute, though, when the original hosts of the article where the material had been pilfered agreed to make it free to everyone. Our thanks to them, whoever they are. Busy Bee that I am, I haven't had time to read it, but I'm sure it's sensational. This month's Wiki stars Lesbian pulp fiction (a genre close to my heart, I must confess) writer Ann Bannon has decided to spice up the featured articles candidates list this month. Why not drop by and make your opinion heard? Joining her in this lofty aspiration are the articles But I'm a Cheerleader and Conversion therapy. I'm sure their main editors would welcome any comments (well, helpful ones, anyway) on the talk pages or the FAC discussions. And lest we forget, the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: Sd-Si became a Featured list!! Rah rah, siskumbah! Go, team, GO!!!! And the Oscar goes to... Not content to run for Best Actress, plucky Bannon won a Best supporting actress Oscar... whoops, I meant to say Ann is also getting more than her share of womanly attention on the Good Article list. Joining her on this exalted plane are Freddy Mercury, Waylon Smithers and Lance Bass. Good articles indeed, and the last one mentioned just goes to show that one needn't admire the subject of an article to appreciate the effort put into making him worthwhile reading. What on earth Britney ever saw in him I'll never know. Truly a riddle cloaked in an enigma and wrapped around a puzzle. Fresh faces to brighten our pages Though I may not be the first, let me extend a warm, LGBT Love Boat welcome to the 12 new members who joined us in October: Jliberty, JockCub360, ChristopherEdwards, Desiderius82, Zlrussell, Kelsied, BeardedWoof, Mujerado, Tyrfing, Fabgurrl, Redl@nds597198, and decafdyke! Whatever you choose to do here, I feel sure that your contributions will enhance our project to no end. And if they don't...well, let's just say that I'm not shy. Leather and lace On a personal note, your already overworked cruise director is being cyberly whipped almost daily by Nemissimo, who desperately wants to get the German BDSM translation copy edited and used as a replacement for the current one. It's such a ... err, stimulating topic that I am sure many of you will want to join the copy editing fun. Jump right in, folks! It's so lonely copy editing it all by my lonesome! Late breaking news A little birdie just whispered in my ear that our noble collaboration project was delisted from the Community Portal due to inactivity. When asked how this scandalous turn of events could have occurred, the answer I received was "we suck at stuff like that". Well. In the first place, I disagree that sucking should be considered a negative, but to each his or her own. In the second place, I have full confidence that we can and will collaborate with other projects in the future. So let's not view this as a setback (even though it is), but rather a challenge to improve (and good Lord, I sound almost Wikipedian!). Champagne dreams and caviar kisses Lastly, the holidays are rapidly approaching. Our American cousins are currently getting ready to slaughter masses of poultry in an effort to show their gratitude and generally peaceful demeanor, and those of the Canadian persuasion, trendsetters that they are, celebrated a bit early this year. I'm sure all us foreigners will join together in wishing them all a very happy Thanksgiving on their respective holidays, both already celebrated and forthcoming... though I would hope somebody would enlighten me as to why they don't celebrate it on the same day. I was awake all last night trying to figure that one out. In the spirit of this peculiarly North American holiday, let me take a moment to thank all of our editors for their contributions to this project. It's people like you who make people like me...well, a "people person"! May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your Love Boat never turn into a Poseidon. Kisses, Miss Julie To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

Delivered on 12:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC).

3-revert rule

User:Reginmund has violated the 3rr rule at Gilbert and Sullivan both on October 28 and today. Can you help? Thanks! -- Ssilvers 22:32, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked him already for 72. Moreschi 22:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. And thanks for contributing to the talk page discussion. I don't understand this violet riga person. We have discussed this to death, and what he/she wants to do is basically to put a piece of trivia in the G&S article that is dealt with elsewhere. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 22:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 5th and 12th, 2007.

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Quandary

Hi, I just read your post on the Talk:India page. I sincerely hope your intervention will help cool things down a little on the India page. One of the big problems, as I see it, is that there is a group of editors, who are out to hype up the contributions of both the Karnataka region of India and the language of that region, Kannada. Part of the quandary for me is that they don't seem to heed Misplaced Pages policy about reliable secondary sources, and I don't know how to proceed with them. Thus, earlier today, I showed them here, that the authors they want included are not notable (by a long shot) when compared to some other writers who are not mentioned. But they remain unresponsive, feeling perhaps they can make up in numbers what they lack in sources. I asked them if they would consider a Misplaced Pages mediation, but they didn't go for that either. All these editors: user:Sarvagnya, user:KNM, user:Gnanapiti, and a few others like User:Dineshkannambadi and Amar seem to turn up at the same time on different pages. They have in the past been accused of colluding and at least two of them, user:Sarvagnya and user:Gnanapiti were once asked to not edit the same articles by the presiding administrator at RFCU. In fact, they all appear here on ANI even as I write this. Frankly, I don't know how to proceed, when confronted with this form of herd editing. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thespis (opera)

Hi. The Thespis (opera) article has been nominated for promotion to FA. Marc Shepherd and Adam Cuerden have both done a super job with it, and I can't imagine that there could be a better researched encyclopedia article. Please take a look and let us know if you have any comments. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 04:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

bad cop

Moreschi, since you seem willing to take a few troll-infested topics by the horns so to speak, how about try your hand at Afrocentrism too. This article is a mess several classes below India at its worst, and attempts to "debate" have proven fruitless for about two years now. dab (𒁳) 14:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Sweet Jesus, what a mess. I've read through that now - not much that isn't painfully POV. I can't even begin to count the number of policies this one violates. I haven't had time to check out the users involved and conduct issues, so I don't know as of yet who wrote the worst of the POV nonsense, but I strongly suspect some judicious bans might well be in order. Cheers, Moreschi 17:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Talk:India

Since dab, a well known and respected member of the community, has suggested that I seek your audience on your talk page. Here's the deal:

• You made an inflammatory post on Talk:India which is clearly an intimidation against some of the valued and established long-term contributors of the project.
• My response was challenging the validity of the aggressive comments you left on the talk page of the article.
• ... which was removed by you a few hours later with the edit summary: If you disagree, take it up with the ArbCom. This is common practice and has been used successfully before. There's no question of abuse, since I'll be the one doing the enforcing.
• What I would like to know is, from where have you have derived the validity of and how do you seek to justify admin abuse as a means of settling the dispute?
• Would you like to rethink, in the interest of the project, of your position as an administrator in this case, since you have been involved in India-related disputes as an "uninvolved administrator" for a long time now which highlights, your more-than-peripheral involvement in the dispute.
• My aims and intentions with this dispute are crystal clear – I want a peaceful and amicable dispute resolution in conformity with the policies and the process. Apart from that I would also like to see administrators giving due respect to fellow contributors to the project, rather than using blocks as an illegal and punitive measure against them.
• I am still interested in your response. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 17:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • By common courtesy, you should have just refactored NHN's comments, not completely removed them. I understand your anti-nationalism campaign, but honestly, removing another administrator's comments (an administrator who has done lots to fight SPA, trolls and edit warriors on many India-related articles) just because they are in disagreement is in bad taste. This is a discussion and he's allowed to comment on what he thinks is right and wrong. You can't honestly expect that everyone will agree to every rule you proposed. Also, I don't think you should be the one enforcing the rules as indicated in this edit summary. That should be left to uninvolved administrators who do not have previous relations with the editors of the article, or have any biases. Thanks, Nishkid64 (talk) 18:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Also, how are edit summaries like even going to help the situation? Either, block a user for 3RR/edit-warring or don't block at all. Snide comments just escalate tensions, Moreschi. Also, if you have issues with those editors who revert war on a number of articles, take it to ArbCom. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
• As far as I know I have no previous experience with any of the editors currently fighting at India. Nor do I have any personal biases as regards the subject matter (don't care two hoots, actually). It's very rich for you pair to have the temerity to lecture me on "being involved" - when I'm the one who doesn't care about the subject matters, nor in this case I have dealt with the editors before (unless Baka and Anwar turn up, in which case it is slightly different. As of now, however, they haven't).
• My post on the talk page was simply a fairly common thing I, and other adminstrators, have been doing for a while now on particularly contentious articles that have a long history of edit-warring over. I have blocked people under such arrangements, in the past, with no protest. When I asked another administrator about his application of virtually identitical rules when dealing with another (non-India-related) nationalist fight that later ended up at ArbCom, he pointed out that not only did the ArbCom know (and where fine about it), but if I may quote: "Don't worry, what we're doing is just a creative application of the rule that edit-warring is disruptive and disruption is blockable. What exactly makes an edit disruptive depends on the situation, and we just provide a few clues to editors about that...".
• Essentially, I suggest you two leave me alone and let me deal with the problem. Clearly, the approach you have been trying for the last couple years, softly-softly, has not worked, so it's time for some new measures. You don't like it, take it up with the ArbCom. I'm not overly attached to my sanity or my adminship - what I do care about it preventing disruption. Moreschi 19:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • If you've seen my contributions, you'd know I don't even get involved in India-related disputes, unless I'm asking to mediate or protect pages. As I told you before, these things won't help, unless you go to ArbCom. Enforcing your own set of rules, as done by others on various other articles, might work as a temporary measure, but it surely won't assist you in the long-term for your crusade against nationalism. Nishkid64 (talk) 21:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Nothing will ever really get rid of the nationalist plague (actually, I don't think that's the problem here - it's simply unscrupulous editing practices) but something like this, if it institutes a tradition of more thoughtful editing on India, will help that article for sure, and hopefully act as a benchmark for other places. Sure, Big ArbCom Cases might be more appealing in a phallogocentric way, but not necessarily more helpful :) Cheers, Moreschi 21:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Well spoken, Moreschi. "Phallogocentric." Now there's a word I haven't seen in a long long time; since my days with the Lacan-Derrida crowds of long ago! Just stopping by, nothing on my mind. Cheers. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 00:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Nicolas-François Guillard

Since you're working on Gluck, can you have a look at this? Someone created a stub on him and I worked it up, but it's unsourced and needs checking. Cheers. --Folantin 10:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

One of the useful things about Grove is how remarkably librettist-friendly it is. I'll add another para later, so at least we'll have a decent short article. Cheers, Moreschi 15:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Banned from Afrocentrism and talk page

Please see here. If you reject the efforts of good-faith editors to compromise and reduce edit-warring, I have little choice, and seeing as virtually all your edits involve pushing the same POV, I have little sympathy either. Moreschi 20:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Where are the instances of my POV pushing at Afrocentrism? You've made a charge. Substantiate it. Point them out. I don't want your sympathy. I expect you to act as a responsible admin. deeceevoice 20:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I've gone through your edits and can quite clearly detect a recognizable POV pattern behind them all (not just to Afrocentrism). Seeing as you won't accept the 1RR everyone else has signed up to, there's no point letting you filibuster on the talk and waste time on the article any more. I'm not really in the mood for arguing this, so if you don't like it, try ANI. Moreschi 20:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

You're making excuses for a completely wrong-headed and precipitous act that is completely without justification. It's a simple request. You've charged me with POV pushing at Afrocentrism and imposed a rather drastic penalty. It's perfectly reasonable to expect you to provide the diffs that caused you to come to such a decision. This has nothing to do with your "mood." I couldn't care less about your mood. I find your comments here unresponsive, high-handed, arrogant and totally off the wall. What is at issue here is your responsibility as an admin to justify your actions. Do it. deeceevoice 21:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

No. I've got so many wikidramas boiling around my head I don't have time to deal with your tedious wikilawyering. Your incivility and tendentious talkpage time-wasting are quite clear for all to see, as are your attempts to insert as much of your own opinion as you can get away with. You don't like it, try ANI. I'll provide diffs there if I absolutely have to. Right now, I'm trying to write articles in between wikidramas, which is enough of a chore as it is without you wasting your time, and mine, on this page. Moreschi 21:25, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Reginmund

FYI, having served out his block, he immediately returned to the Gilbert and Sullivan page and resumed pushing the same edit as before. Marc Shepherd 01:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh will you please be mature Marc Shepherd and go to the talk page and discuss this? So far, you haven't even provided a reason why the tag should be removed and that is how consensus starts, which is something that we currently do not have. I'm waiting at the talk page. Reginmund 02:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a fairly lengthy topic on that talk page, on which numerous people have stated their views. I cannot state them any more persuasively, and I don't think consensus depends on whether one particular editor believes I have done so. Marc Shepherd 02:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Consensus is not only about stating your views but discussion. I believe that is what the diagram is for on the guideline itself. Reginmund 06:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

And this user has now violated 3RR once again. Marc Shepherd 09:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Quick question

How did you find out about the edits you reported for deeceevoice? Did another user ask you to take a look at the page? I'm sorry if it seemed like I was accusing you of anything at the notice board --I just think it's better to say up-front when you are involved. So, that leads me to wonder how you decided to single out those edits as problematic? I think that there were other users who might deserve a report on incivility. What do you think? futurebird 03:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Advice

I think that maybe they have archived the discussions on Deeceevoive and Dbachmann prematurely. I don't think that this was the intention, but I, feel as though I'm being "shut down" and left out in the cold with my questions and very real concerns unanswered. I'm really angry about the way that this whole thing has turned out because the double standard seems so blatant and clear. Deeceevoive and Dbachmann were both rude and both (almost) broke 3RR, but deeceevoice is banned for a YEAR and the concerns about Dbachmann are dismissed shortly after they are posted. It's absurdly unfair in my eyes. It's not helping that Dbachmann was also rude to me and implied that I was a troll. I work really hard to make constructive edits and to respond to others with respect. I don't know how anyone could mistake my edits for trolling.

But, maybe I'm not seeing the entire picture. So, I'll start by asking you for some advice: What can I do to draw attention to this unfairness and have it addressed in some way? I feel that I need to do something because otherwise it's hard for me to maintain faith in this project and work with the other users here. I hope that made sense. -- futurebird (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Featured List of the Day Experiment

There have been a series of proposals to initiate a Featured List of the Day on the main page. Numerous proposals have been put forth. After the third one failed, I audited all WP:FL's in order to begin an experiment in my own user space that will hopefully get it going. Today, it commences at WP:LOTD. Afterwards I created my experimental page, a new proposal was set forth to do a featured list that is strikingly similar to my own which is to do a user page experimental featured list, but no format has been confirmed and mechanism set in place. I continue to be willing to do the experiment myself and with this posting it commences. Please submit any list that you would like to have considered for list of the day in the month of January 2008 by the end of this month to WP:LOTD and its subpages. You may submit multiple lists for consideration.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 21:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)