Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:18, 30 November 2007

Please sign your comments when posting to my talk page. Also, be aware that I clear this page occasionally without notice. Old conversations are available in the page history and through the links below:

Talk Page Archives:

• Archive 1
• Archive 2
• Archive 3
• Archive 4

--Superm401 - Talk 02:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

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Take Care
SimonMayer 20:18, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Adopt this user

Greetings User:SuperM401, if there is room on your list of adoptees, I would appreciate some advice/help efficiency-wise, with some basic stuff. I have not written much of anything, nor started pages. I do recent changes, and watchlist. I am hoping to be able to improve my skills/knowledge concerning:

• wikifying, in general, such as:
  • categories
  • citing
  • dablinks
  • links to other projects
  • naming conventions
  • lists
• ..........

Some stubs I come across need attention, that's when I wish an expert were available. I guess I would be asking a series of questions about minor issues, as they come up (so not very systematic). And so, if you are available, please message the talk-page —Newbyguesses 06:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Greatful. Firstly –there is an info-box in this article and I don't know how to fill it in. Seems some real quiet editor has been trying to do it, not getting it right yet, and no other editors seem interested (from the history page). Another question, which Categories are appropriate? How many, how specific, how organised? Just letting me in on some basics, please, will speed up my contribs, and enjoyment. Keep all threads together on one talk-page, either one, if that is the best way to work. Or just swap messages, whatever. And answer when you get time from other work. Thanks —Newbyguesses 08:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Why can't I add the WPProject/Schools info-box to the talk-page for this school? ( I have tried a number of times, but cancelled the editing cz it wasn't right.) Maybe there are some merge/namechange/deleted/whatever issues with this article? Cheers –Newbyguesses 08:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

fair use rationale

Hi SuperM401, would you mind taking a look, I tried to follow procedure, provide a fair use rationale for this image — Tgsh logo.gif — for this educational article. Not done anything like that before, not being much interested in images, as the web-connection is always so slow. I do have acess to a camera, but images I took locally, maybe helpful, unlikely to be high-quality. (Idea for later.) For now, I want to get this image checked — am I doing the right thing. My to-do list is on Userpage:Newbyguesses - and I started crossing off already. Thanks for listening. Cheers! –Newbyguesses 13:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the image TGSHS - now the info-box has an ugly forest of red, blue, black entries. Do I have to check heaps of other articles to see what best practice is, or --- I am unclear about wiki or not for dates. And for suburb, town, state in these entries. And the schoolwebsite entry is untidy, but how should it look? (As an aside, the font or typeface is rather bland to my eyes, reading onscreen is not my favourite activity, but beats going to the library 10 times a week.)

Yes I see what I was doing wrong on PTSS - I was trying to add a (template?) WP Project Schools - (What would that be used for?)

No, I dont intend to use Sandbox much, nor create content in userspace. Having said that, my HTML coding is rudimentary, and I might need somewhere to work on stuff like that. Also, for setting out, I know not a thing about -boxes, tables, width, div, toc-right, infoboxes and images -- in short, making a pretty page, which is important, is something one has to practise. I would like to get proficient enough to do up a dummy article (for layout purposes only) - see post on my talkpage - initial thoughts on setting out an article. I realise I dont know what a script is, nor a monobook, (although I somehow managed to get Popups installed, how I aint sure.)

WP is NOT -- yeah, -- not a social-network (gabfest), but cameraderie amongst editors is pleasant. Thanks for your help to date, and I carry on my to-do list, with more confidence. ^-^ (What?) Newbyguesses 02:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

User-preferences- is there anything on there for me to worry about. Skins- (stick with what I started with) Maths - I had hoped to learn Latex - I aint done any maths markup yet, Email address -- you are welcome to email me any long or involved posts. May I do the same if circumstances require? — Newbyguesses 03:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

popups

Hi, I am starting to use Popups, its scary, but that auto-save is a bottler. Dont understand what it means to "edit a prior version"? What if a "test-editor" has done three sneaky ones (see my edits on Greatest Hits). Can you catch them? What does it mean "all intermediates will be lost"? Am I right, WP-Undo works "in article space", but Popups gets its info from somewhere else? What happens when you "edit a previous version"? Is that a way to cut and paste around things when good work was interspersed with nonsense edits? (btw) I prefer to use the word 'vandalism' only to refer to the aggregate effect of damage (temporary) to WP - to me, each individual edit which I revert is (rv-v an unhelpful edit) , or (rv-v nonsense) or such – it matters to me to use and mean words, that's what interests me, so I put the little flower on the User:page with its unspoken message (just like I see others do), being as true as one can to WP:AGF. Wonder how long this idealism can last?

So, I want to write again but before I do, got to get some references organised, (and read), and get this Citation stuff under my belt. I still see a redlink when I look at List of publications in Philosophy for instance. I am envisaging a (list, maybe) of Dictionaries (there is one, in the article Dictionary), however it is short and doesnt give IBSN's or publication years. Some dictionaries have articles, but some merely point to articles about the parent company (M-W, and Collins). For me to write, and cite, I gotta read, read, read, which means to write one good paragraph, could be a couple of days work or more. Is it just me being so slow, or does everyone have to spend half there life waiting for pages to download, or trying to get back to a page?

I am getting just a bit despondent at present, guess it looks like so much to find out about. Maybe tell me a little about redirects, double redirects, traps to watch out for, and moving pages (not that I would dare at this stage). And NAVIGATION - blast it! I am always getting lost. For instance, how does one get to Wiktionary? I sometimes open up multiple screens, add to the confusion. If one wants to follow links forward, and then go back, how is it done and not take so long that one needs a packed lunch and retraining at the end? Oh, and I set up an account on Wiktionary, cz there is some deal with inter-project links, (and i wont be editing there in a real hurry, the page setup, and etymology etc is daunting). There is actually a WP article entitled what?, so it points to a W-ary page, which correspondingly, and correctly (now) points to a dabpage on WP. That's the way its done. Some stubs look so serene –Newbyguesses 00:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Like what you did with the template. (Someone has since added a blank box, below the filled-out one.) btw, did you notice, on the info-box it says correctly, enrolment, but for the code one has to go enrollment. How's that for NPOV? (spelling) —Newbyguesses 01:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Popups

Popups has a feature which automatically presses the save tab, and then says at the top, please wait for next page to load - that's a real handy feature, yes.

Australian slang dictionary for the novice and expert alike. ... Bottler :, something excellent. Bottling : his blood's worth:, he's an excellent, ... http//www.australianexplorer.com/slang/phrases.htm –Newbyguesses 02:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

How does deletion go

If you would care to take a look at my contribution on this talkpage? I am unsure what action I would take. (How does deletion process go?) Consensus is required. I am aware of the issue of canvassing. (when does it apply, who makes such an accusation?) Also, I should on the article page date-fix the neutrality tag, (Y/how?) — Newbyguesses 02:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Tabs, cookies, bookmarks, and so forth

I have this article on my watchlist - Tabbed document interface. Maybe when I read it five times I can figure it out. ( A little personal history - In 1971, I was studying CompSci at UQ, and did not graduate. In 1984, I was selling computers -CBM, Vic-20 and software Visicalc, a spreadsheet, tho I never done any spreadsheets myself. In 1991, I began to write in Basic a Bridge program, and gave up after 50 lines of code. I figure I can buy a Bridge program for twenty bucks. Fifty lines was just enough to deal the cards. Currently, IE6, Windows XP, (not my computer, and I dont and wouldnt pay for the connection either) ) I have got four useless grey lines on top of this screen, but (tab?) what's a tab. I will just plod along,I guessNewbyguesses 03:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

slow

Regarding slowness, at present, articles such as this and that, load so slow that I dont ever see much beyond the first paragraph. These might be featured articles, but how would I know that? Featured content, (images), I can not access, so, I see not the best of WP. Picture of the day I can get.Newbyguesses 03:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Dialup

A company whom I wont name provides a crummy service. They call it broadband, but the speed is equivalent to dial-up. I dont pay for it, but still feel ripped off. I need to adjust the things I expect from on-line. — Newbyguesses 04:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Keeping threads in one place

I can see that with a couple of screens open, one could follow a thread, even if the replies are on a different page. But with only one open, it is more convenient to leave all on one page, like on an article/Talkpage. I often read a talkpage from top to bottom, and believe I can identify ways to improve articles that way. Chronological order is easier for me to comprehend, even if the topics fluctuate. That said, it is a method for Article/Talkpages, and the back and forth method seems to be preferred on UserTalkpages, and has advantages. Either way is fine, just, I will try to put stuff in the relevant place, altho I prefer just to post at the bottom of the page. Newbyguesses - Talk 21:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try to keep topics in one place. I just like the automatic notification that someone has posted to my talk page, but that's okay; I am already watching your pages. Superm401 - Talk 02:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

How about multiple copies of a post? As is required for certain procedures? How many copies is too many? How many copies are there anyway, with all the backups? And what are the mirror sites all about? Newbyguesses - Talk 06:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't make multiple copies of posts in a user talk conversation (at least with me). Generally, multiple copies are not a great idea, except for quoting and archiving. You're right that backups result in many extra copies, but the multiple live copy issue is more one of organization. If you have the same content in two places, there tends to be duplication of effort. That's why we have redirects, for example. As for the mirror sites, mirroring allowed under the GFDL (though some of them are non-compliant), and most are trying to make money off ads. You can get into the gory details (if you want...) at Misplaced Pages:Mirrors and forks. Superm401 - Talk 20:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Quoting, Reposting, Moving Threads

What is the correct WP:etiquette for quoting the words of other users? What is WP:Et for reposting a message on another (Talk)page? Or multiple talkpages, as is required in some places. And how about refactoring a page or a thread, for archive purposes? Newbyguesses - Talk 21:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Just put it in quotes, and link to the original page (preferably a diff). See Help:Archiving a talk page for archiving instructions. Superm401 - Talk 02:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Neat tricks

How does one get a diff to show? And this stuff – Referring to your post (pos), this diff (rdr) convinces me that WP:Abc needs editing, then this... and so on? It would be easiest if you answered these here, I come and check for news, or if you want, send it all over to Newbyguesses' Talkpage, or the replies, whateverNewbyguesses - Talk 21:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

See Help:Diff for how to find diffs. Essentially, you go to the history of the page in question and find the relevant revision. Then, next to it you click "last", which takes you to the diff. Then, you can copy the url and treat it as an ordinary external link. Superm401 - Talk 02:19, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The page Help:diff has a blue link page widening which was deleted October 2006. Why still blue? On searching WP for Page widening, a relevent entry is Page widening troll, which then redirects to a page Slashdot. What has gone on here, (is it only of historical interest), but what is page - widening anyway?Newbyguesses - Talk 06:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a bit tricky; that's actually an interwiki link. That's the kind of link you use to link to Wiktionary, for instance. Normally, you wouldn't use an interwiki link when linking to your own wiki. But that help page is copied from meta:Help:Diff, and there the link has to be interwiki. Superm401 - Talk 20:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I assume page widening is artifically (e.g. with CSS) making a page very wide so it's hard to read. Superm401 - Talk 20:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Community Portal

Hi. For my next question -

Articles on WP are for the rendering of information. The talkpage of the article is for discussing improvement(s) to the article. Can you give me an idea of some places I could look on WP, a forum, or fora, or forums, where writing style, copyediting, setting out, and such matters are discussed.

I recommend Misplaced Pages:Village pump for that. For simpler, less opinionated questions you can use Misplaced Pages:Help desk, or just ask me. :)

I know about some, such as Rfc on article, or League of Copy Editors. I have not yet learned to navigate my way real well through the Community Portal to Newcomers/Help and further such assistance, maybe you could give me some pointers here. I am enjoying WP more now, the adoptionship is working well, are you also pleased with how its going? How goes your Admin work? Regards — User:Newbyguesses - Talk 19:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it's working out well. I haven't been doing much admin work lately, but that's okay for now. Superm401 - Talk 01:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Featured Sounds

• At WP:SignPost 2007-06-04, newly featured sound wesnothmusic.ogg is 4.5MB. Is that a lot, or a little for such a file? How long would such a featured sound run for. How loud. Is it compressed? Past experience leads me to believe it not worth trying to download, the computer cant handle such a task without crashing, it takes all night. Or, maybe I dont do it right?

That's about typical for a featured sound. It's 4:22, about the length of a CD track. It is compressed in Ogg Vorbis format; see Misplaced Pages:Media help if you have difficulties playing it. There's no way to determine how loud ahead of time, but you can adjust your volume. I don't know why it would crash your computer, but it's hard to predict how long it would take. Superm401 - Talk 01:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

• I am learning to work MyContribs from the top down, and MyWatchlist from the bottom up. The To-Do list is taking more time though, I am getting there. Regards, Newbyguesses - Talk 00:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Glad you're getting into the swing of things. Superm401 - Talk 01:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Cut and paste (URLs)

Sorry, I haven't got this yet. For diffs, etc, the URL flashes briefly across the bottom of the screen when I mouse over that section of the screen. So, how do I display it, to paste to the scratchpad, and where do I paste it. Addresses dont display at the top of the screen, they used to, sometimes in windows98, wasn't it. – Newbyguesses - Talk 02:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

You can right-click the link, then click Copy Shortcut (or similar). Then, paste it in the edit box as part of your edit when you want to show it to someone. I'm not sure what you mean about the address not displaying. Can you email me a screenshot? Superm401 - Talk 02:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Have I got it now? This is how to make a link to this diff. Newbyguesses - Talk 05:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

You figured it out! But you shouldn't put in a | character for Misplaced Pages:External links (technically, a diff is an external link). They simply use a space between the url and link text ("diff" in this case). This is because URLs may contain a | in some cases. Superm401 - Talk 06:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Current Work

I am working on some things in my sandbox. The purpose is to get some practise with settng out of information. (For instance, the dictionary drafts.) So far, my efforts are less than impressive.

I'm sorry. I really don't understand what you're trying to do here. What article do you intend to put this content in? It doesn't seem encyclopedic in its current form. Superm401 - Talk 20:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Second, for this material, which extensively summarises a small section of a large reference work, where can a line be drawn on plagierism issues? How much to use, when it is all rewritten to at least some extent? Just read WP:COPYVIO and try to follow that guideline?

Well, first of all, citing the source fairly and accurately eliminates the plagiarism issue. Copyright infringement is a different legal issue, while plagiarism is an ethical one. Either way, you shouldn't be just summarising an existing work. Present the facts your own way, using existing works simply to verify what you say. Superm401 - Talk 20:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Third, I am looking at the detail of the markup for the citation stuff from article "Fac-", but that is still going slowly, with other issues to deal with.

Sorry, what article? Please provide an exact link. Superm401 - Talk 20:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Other issues- Rename of article "wardrobe' and slight add(s) to WP:ATRIVIA, and its talk-page. — PS: am impressed by the new shorter talk-page, O the joys of archiving! — Newbyguesses - Talk 20:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:ATRIVIA is not a page; please try to be precise, because you're confusing me a little. Thanks. I try to archive when it gets to 50 items, but let it slip a little this time. Superm401 - Talk 20:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I get something with (right click) "Save Targrt As", but still no URL.. - Newbyguesses - Talk 01:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I don't use Windows often, and I remembered wrong. It's actually Copy Shortcut. Right-click a link, then click that. The URL will be copied to your clipboard. To paste it later, press Shift-Insert in a text box.

In response to your posts, which I am still digesting - Help me out here, please.

1. None of the material in the sandbox is meant to be encyclopedic
2. The material in the sandbox is at best, a crude attempt at setting out what the shape of a basic article could look like

Okay. Well, no offense, but it looks like you may be on the wrong track. See Misplaced Pages:Guide to layout for good advice on what a typical article looks like.

1. I have been looking at a lot of fairly average or weak pages, stubs and such that need cleanup, and i havent cleaned any up, much.
2. Because I havent got WP writing style down yet.

For that, take another look at Misplaced Pages:Manual of style (though experience is the best guide).

1. I dont get to see much featured articles, because the time to download and peruse them is extensive.
2. How long would it take to read all the way through Marriage

You should read a few, even it takes a while. It will help your own writing and editing

1. None of the material in the sandbox is meant in any way to be a waste of WP storage space

Don't worry about that. I just want to help you learn.

1. Nor to infringe against any policies that I know of.
2. Nor in any way to be, or bring upon, or be construed as, an infringement of copyright of any person, or any entity
3. Please clarify this for me.
4. I can practice such basic computer skills, writing, in a word-processer program off-line, but if then?
5. What is a sandbox for?

You're not doing anything wrong. But generally, Misplaced Pages articles don't just summarise existing works, and that's what you're doing in your sandbox articles. If you want to make a practice article, how about one on your home town, or high school? It doesn't need to be notable since you're just doing it for practice.

1. Please, if you could help me out here?
2. I , also, am confused.

I should know the answers to some of this myself, but I dont. so, if you can help me out, not a whole bunch of answers if you dont want to, just either/or use a sandbox/dontuse a sandbox ? ,Newbyguesses - Talk 02:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with using a sandbox. I tend to use mine just for formatting experiments (like if I forget how to use a tag or template). But practice articles are fine too. Superm401 - Talk 02:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Adopt

Would you please adopt me? Nasanerd 20:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Need a adopter

Im from india would like to help wikipedia as much as i can, As im v new to wiki, i need a adopter to adopt me to help.... waiting for ur acceptance... Thanx....

Fact

There is currently a suggestion on the talk-page for the article Fact that it be put up for GA review. How in general, does the GA review process go? ,Newbyguesses - Talk 02:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know any more about this than can be found at Misplaced Pages:Good articles. Apparently, each nomination is reviewed by a single "impartial reviewer". Superm401 - Talk 06:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi User:Superm401, there is a link to wikisource in the references for Charles Peirce, which I would like to add in the text of Fact#Pragmatism for the wikisource article . I havent figured out how to do it. Thanks,user:Newbyguesses - Talk 02:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

See Help:Interwiki linking. Generally, it's just ]. In this case, ] makes How To Make Our Ideas Clear (the en: is optional here). Superm401 - Talk 04:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Shortcuts

WP:TRIV or WP:AVTRIV are the shortcuts, they should both go to the same article.

Inclusion of this code should provide a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Superm401&diff=139277258&oldid=139118365

Am I getting it now? ,Newbyguesses - Talk 03:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yep, and thanks for the correct shortcuts. :) Superm401 - Talk 06:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

This is how to make a link to a diiff via the URL. Do I have the terminology right here, three links, here, here, and this —

user:Newbyguesses - Talk 15:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

That's fine. Exactly how you do it depends on the situation. Superm401 - Talk 04:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

References

Still trying to figure out how to do refs, with a reference section.

The only thing in the references section (if you're using <ref> tags) is <references />. Then, the actual references are used like: Bush walked on the moon.<ref>Time Magazine, 1981</ref>. Then, "Time Magazine, 1981" wills how up in the reference section. See Help:Footnotes if you haven't already.

Looking at Fact, and Dialectic, so much going on there, and I still have these other Questions -

1. If a user has in the sandpit a version of a current article, but with some slight changes, could that be considered as -

• a possible wasted archive

I told you. Don't worry about space.

• a possible FORK

Maybe, but only if you make major changes, link it from other parts of Misplaced Pages, and make no effort to merge.

2. If a user has in the sandbox a substantially modified, or crippled, version of a current article, could that be considered as -

• a possible learning tool

Certainly a possibility. We can't tell you what helps you learn, only make suggestions.

• a possible attack site

Only if you put complete junk there and leave it.

• unencyclopedic

No real concern if it's in userspace.

How do the reference entries, or that unreferenced tag get generated? .Newbyguesses - Talk 08:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The unreferenced tag is just {{fact}}, which makes . Superm401 - Talk 04:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Screenshots

Tip of the Day has been quite kind to me lately, I now know how to do screenshots, and also (I havent tried it yet), resize the text, to ease eyestrain. However, the screenshot I took and tried to send as an email attatchment was 350KB ?. This was so long that I was unable to verify its transmission (to my other email account). There is some stuff on that screenshot, (of a list of references, from either Fact. or perhaps, Dialectic), I wanted to have you comment on, if I sent an email with the screenshot. So, I can do screenshots, but not necessarily adept at sending or working with, them, however progress continues on some fronts at least. Thanks again,Newbyguesses - Talk 21:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding. 350 KB is not very big at all. Perhaps you mean 350 MB, which is too big for an email. Do you know if your screenshot is a BMP? These tend to be large. If so, open it in MS Paint and save it as a GIF or PNG. Either of these will be much smaller. Did you try to send me the 350 KB/MB screenshot already? If so, I didn't get it, but that's okay. :) I'm glad you're liking tip of the day. Superm401 - Talk 04:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Existence

Could you please take a look at what I am trying to do with the reference section for Existence. I do not appear to have the syntax right. Thanks, Newbyguesses - Talk 01:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Fixed that, now looking at these diffs...

Very glad you got that. That's the kind of thing that's bewildering the first time, and pretty easy forever afterwards. You also made some solid improvements to the intro. Superm401 - Talk 04:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Seeing diffs

Of these recent edits to the article Fact, this one was reasonable, this (by Kenosis) was better. This was reasonable, and this was better, none surviving. This was reasonable, the whole sentence is gone now. This worked, and is still current,Newbyguesses - Talk 04:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Yep, you understand how to use them. Isn't it powerful to be able to sieve through all the work that goes on here like that? Misplaced Pages could never have worked without MediaWiki's strong revision control. Superm401 - Talk 04:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Communicating on Talk Pages

Various Talk Pages, (here are two - talk:Fact and wikipedia talk:Avoid trivia sections in articles), reveal various different styles of interaction. Sometimes, with a long post, a User will break in with a comment and answer. As per Wiquiette (WI - ki - ket), all posts are best signed. However, this break effectively leaves the portion above unsigned, and this can then be confusing when read later. What is your comment on say, whether or how on proper occasion, the new poster would or could " sign off " that portion above, with the " original poster's signature". There are other problems encountered on Talk Pages; they, as I said, vary. Have I thanked you lately for adopting this user? Well, thanks,Newbyguesses - Talk 12:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, talk pages work surprisingly well given that the wiki syntax has nothing to provide for them (even the : indentation wasn't really meant for talk pages). I wouldn't sign for someone else unless they fail to sign completely. In this case, use {{unsigned}}. Superm401 - Talk 01:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

using external links

Hi, I am thinking about Google, in particular. For the article Singular they, a resource I think could be used more in the article is in the external links. Warenda-They. As it is a PDF, it is v.slow, or unavailable (and such should be noted). However a HTML file is available (Google cache). Now, from Criticism of Google < There have also been complaints that Google's Web cache feature violates copyright. However, Google provides mechanisms for requesting that caching be disabled. > So, is the google resource a "convenience link"? Can it properly be added to the article, or best not?

I don't think Google cache violates copyright (it seems to be fair use to me). However, I also don't think there's a good reason to link to the Google cache version of an active link (even for PDFs). If someone wants to see that, they can get it for themselves. It's as simple as searching on cache:http://url.com on Google. Linking to the Google cache could be seen as an unnecessary endorsement of Google.

There are so many different methods for citations, reffs, footnotes and links! I am slowly getting my head around these, one problem is that each article I look at seems to have developed different methods, at different times, by different editors. WP:CITE, WP:FOOT, MOS etc. and numerous daughter articles all have useful information, and Category:Quotation templates is useful.

The important thing is to be as consistent as possible within an article. If there's no existing standard in the article, I recommend you use the <ref> tag. If there is a well-established standard, of course use that. If there's a dispute, settle it on the talk page.

Style issues, such as achieving a pleasant and consistent "look" for an article, are difficult - one scrolls through an article, not seeing it as a whole as would be the case for a book in bound covers. Style to me means "user-friendliness" and accurate word-choices for readibility- Reliable Citation Is Obligatory! but poor writing can make even a properly referenced article misleading, or unreadable. Any comments on this, thanks, Newbyguesses - Talk 00:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course, you can have a bad (in any of many ways) well-referenced article. But referencing is critical to help readers make accurate judgments about what they're reading. Superm401 - Talk 03:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Ad? WTF

Matt. I'll agree the MindTouch page isn't that great. However, I would argue it is not an advertisement. What is it advertising? MindTouch? Please. I never even wanted a MindTouch page.

BTW, there was a really nice page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/DekiWiki on Deki Wiki, which was modeled after other open source projects' pages. It had more than a dozen contributors to the page...then it was speedily deleted and cited as spam. Others, and myself, pointed out that it couldn't possibly be spam because the page had a dozen contributors and was structured similarly to other open source projects' pages. Then it was claimed Deki Wiki was non-notable. However, it was then pointed out Deki Wiki had coverage in many national and regional publications including the Wall Street Journal. Nonetheless the page was deleted and locked.

MindTouch has since been in the Wall Street Journal again and many more reputable publications on and offline. Also, Deki Wiki is now downloaded ~500 times a day http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=173074&ugn=dekiwiki&type=prdownload&mode=60day&package_id=0 , is easily one of the fastest growing projects, ranked in the top 200 at sourceforge, and has more than 80,000 deployments in just the first year. Far more than most other projects in this space that are afforded a Misplaced Pages pages. Anyway, after the original DekiWiki page was deleted another Misplaced Pages Admin created the MindTouch page. Just a little background. I've petitioned for the original DekiWiki page and, more importantly, the discussion page of said page to be restored. This provides an interesting and somewhat sordid tale of conflict of interest.

It seems, once again, I'm going to have to wonder why MindTouch is being held to a dramatically different standard than others.

~ AaronF 07:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Dude, that reads lots better. ~ AaronF 07:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Request fo Undelete

I played that route previously as did a few others who were not affiliated with MindTouch (the company). It was a surreal and frustrating experience I'm not interested in repeating. As for the MindTouch page, I'm for a Deki Wiki page that is structured like TWiki (as was the original page). Having a company page in Misplaced Pages for MindTouch seems kind of lame and uninteresting to me. Who cares? People care about the project and the software. What's MindTouch? We sell support. IMO, that's not encyclopedia-interesting. ~ AaronF 07:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Georgia Tech

I see that you're a student at or alum of Georgia Tech! I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject Georgia Tech, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Georgia Tech. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks! —Disavian (/contribs) 17:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikimania bid

A few dedicated individuals, myself included, are putting together a bid to host Wikimania on Georgia Tech's campus. This is an incredible opportunity, so any assistance that any of you would be able to provide will be greatly appreciated. Please read m:Wikimania 2008/Official requirements for bidding cities and m:Wikimania 2008/Judging criteria and contribute to the ongoing bid, located at m:Wikimania 2008/Bids/Atlanta. The deadline for bids is August 30, 2007, so we need to work and plan quickly. For those interested, there will be an IRC meeting to coordinate the bid tonight (Aug 23) at 7:00PM EST in #wikimania-atlanta on irc.freenode.com. If you can, it would be great if you could log on. Thanks for your help! :) —Disavian (/_contribs) 17:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Existence

Hi. Both these links go to the Reference desk. Now, when adding such links on a talkpage, I am wondering which is the superior syntax, and also, when such pages go to archive, is the existence of a link on the archived page a problem at all, as in what links here getting over-burdened or something? Thanks, Newbyguesses - Talk 00:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities#William of Ockham and Existence

Reference_desk/Humanities#William_of_Ockham_and_Existence

Definitely the first one. Almost always use internal (double bracket) links when you can. The one exception is when you're writing an article about Wikimedia (or something related) and you want the link to work regardless of where the article is mirrored. And don't worry about "What links here?" If you have a reason to make the link, make it. Superm401 - Talk 01:08, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:Cite

I archived the talk page. Would you mind looking if I got it correct, please? Newbyguesses - Talk 23:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

It looks fine, except you forgot to add {{talkarchive}} to the top. Superm401 - Talk 03:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Philly meetup #5

Please look at Misplaced Pages:Meetup/Philadelphia 5 and give your input about the next meet-up. Thank you.
This automated notice was delivered to you because you are on the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Philadelphia/Philadelphia meet-up invite list. BrownBot 22:02, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

sources for coeducational years?

Hello, just wondering if you had an alternate source for the years on the coeducation page. I'd really like to use the list, but wikipedia isn't a "citeable source" 'ya know. I can't find a similar list of years anywhere. Any help would rock, thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chippy569 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

SCHIP article

Thanks for tagging that statement in the SCHIP article. Seems like it shouldn't be there. I hope that you'll go ahead and delete it if no one provides a source. TimidGuy 10:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

PNG Crusade

Is it really a good idea to convert, e.g. JPEG directly to PNG? If someone uploads a logo in JPEG form, it may have visible artifacts. In that case, someone should convert the source image (probably a bitmap or vector image) directly to PNG. If you convert the JPEG, the artifacts would still be in the PNG. This isn't usually an issue for GIF, but in some cases creating a GIF loses colors, since GIFs can only represent 256 colors. So if you have a BMP image with more than 256 colors, BMP->PNG is better than BMP->GIF->PNG. I don't think file size really outweighs these concerns at the present. Superm401 - Talk 15:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Like you said, the PNG crusade bot can't remove artifacts. But, where a JPEG->PNG conversion would decrease the file size despite keeping the artifacts, it will do it. This helps avoid introducing new artifacts if a new version of the image is uploaded, and makes it easier to clean the image of artifacts later and upload in PNG because all the file history has already been copied. —Remember the dot 18:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Commons

Dont add that categories. "Category:USS Hampton (SSN-767)]" are in "Category:Los Angeles class submarines" who are in "Category:Submarines of the United States" who are in "Category:Submarines by country" who are in "Category:Submarines" - so you are add a 5 level too high category. Dont do that. Pmgpmg 14:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC) PS. If you want answer - talk on my talkpage.

NNDB

Hi, I have renominated the nndb template- Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_October_29#Template:Nndb_name. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 10:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Meetup/Philadelphia 5

You're invited to the
Philadelphia-area Misplaced Pages Meetup
November 11, 2007
Time: 5:00 pm
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