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Other Things

I've yet to find a solid source on the information that, according to stats released very revently, the number one term googled in Belgium is "Tokio Hotel"; when someone does, should it be included in the article? I believe it should be, as it shows the extent of the band's popularity.

Also, I know that the issue of the Kaulitz twins having their own article has been brought up many times before, but I'd like to further argue that it should be done; for example, last year a popular German TV show named Bill as the #1 most annoying German of 2006, and a couple of nights ago he was crowned #2. And really, there have been so many News spots on German TV about Tom buying a CAR, for goodness' sake. The popularity of the Kaulitz twins not only in their motherland but in many other places around the world is comparable to other super stars such as Justin Timberlake. Think about it. Also noteworthy is German late-night show Freitag Nacht News having a regular skit called "Tokyo Motel" that parodies Bill Kaulitz.

Back on the subject of the Tokio Hotel article itself, it should also be noteworthy that the band donates a designated portion of their profit to a certain charity (I forgot which one, though...). Can someone find a source? Bitteniewieder (talk) 08:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

It would be very hard to verify and seems rather trivial. It would be original research to suggest that number of hits on a search engine = popularity. I highly doubt it will turn out to be true. If you look at the most searched terms over the past 10 years, musical acts rarely register highly, i see no reason that Belgium should be any different. WP:BIO specifies that a person must have been the subject of several none trivial second party publications. As this is the english wikipedia i'm not sure whether their notability in Germany is relavant. If it is titled "Tokyo Motel" then that suggests it is linked to the band not the individuals. Remember we are looking for notability which is not linked the band. --neonwhite user page talk 18:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Forums

May I remind everyone that the discussion page is not a forum for the topic, but a discussion about what should or shouldn't be added/deleted from the article? Read the rules people.Gopherbassist 01:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

For user 81.233.2.176

Where are you getting the sales numbers "+600,000 for Schrei and +563,000 for Zimmer 483"? I had included a source of reference previously redirecting to their Bio within their official web site. You still have that the same source (that one says 3 million CDs and DVDs in Germany). You should change the source or if you don't know how to do it just leave the web site here in discussion and I'll change it.--Harout72 04:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I LOL'D

hahaha, "german black metal band". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.160.52.191 (talk) 14:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The links

I suggest to keep the link to official band-sites and remove links to the fanclubs or street team-sites/pages. Syrion 16:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal

(This refers to merging Bill and Tom Kaulitz into Tokio Hotel --BNutzer (talk) 11:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC))

Any objections. I think the lack of notability here speaks for itself. --Neon white 15:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the Kaulitz twins are far more popular, well-known and recognisable than the band itself particularly outside of the countries in which Tokio Hotel's releases have been big successes, e.g. UK, USA. Living in the UK myself, I was aware of Tom and Bill Kaulitz ever since I read an article about Tokio Hotel in the London Metro; I didn't recall the band as a whole at all, their single failed to chart here, but they were interviewed and featured independently as the Kaulitz twins. They have been involved in more exploits than just Tokio Hotel, e.g. Arthur and the Invisibles, the Gibson guitar endorsement deals, and more I can't even remember at the mo'. However their popularity in other countries is due largely to their distinct images, particularly Bill's, in terms of style and in general. He has also become a fad/forced-meme on various imageboards and forums, including 4chan. I do think that the article on the Kaulitz twins needs to be expanded with more information, though. There is some available I'm just way too lazy to gather all the sources etc. I'll do it soon and then others can tell me whether they think the addition of all the extra information further merits a seperate article.

I think the twins are far more well-known than say, members of the Rasmus, who each have their own individual articles. I think it would be more logical to merge less-known bands where the artists in them have seperate articles, unless they have other side-projects etc.

-Impamiizgraa 22:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think they are very notable outside of the band, therefore most people looking for info would arrive at this page. If you are correct and there is notability seperate from the band, then their article should reflect that, at the moment 90% of it repeats info that is on this page. Appearances on imageboards isnt really that notable to be honest. There are certainly no sources for that. The Arthur and the Invisibles and Gibson things could easily be said to be linked to the band. The usual step is to merge them and then unmerge should there be more significant text written about them. We can't make the decision based on what other bands have. --Neon white 15:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

A merge would be the best thing to do for now. We can remake the twins article again but with sources asserting notabilty outside of the band. There's no point having an individual article on each member if all of the information can be found on the band article. AngelOfSadness talk 17:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I remember they acted in a German film as toddlers, Verruckt Nacht Die in 1994, then there is the Arthur and the Invisibles, then there is Tom's Gibson guitar deals. I can assure you their notability as individuals extends further than their recognition as just the singer and the guitarist of Tokio Hotel. The extra projects I've listed is also reason enough, in my opinion to keep their article seperate, and considering the trend of their current successes and ventures into USA/UK in the future, I think we'll end up creating the article again, so why bother taking it down in the first place with all this extra information (that I will, so help me god, I will find time to edit). Impamiizgraa 00:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Your assurance isn't really encyclopedic. i think that the Arthur and the Invisibles and Gibson deals aren't linked to the band rather than as individuals outside of the band. If you can add the film then it might give the article a little extra notability but it's still a little light. Whether it is created again in the future has no part in the decision. articles should not be written based on speculation that the topic may receive additional coverage in the future.. See WP:N and WP:NOT#CBALL --Neon white 00:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

#REDIRECT ]--Dave it (talk) 09:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

That leaves Talk:Bill and Tom Kaulitz orphaned. BNutzer (talk) 11:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The page hasn't been deleted it just redirects here because any required info about them is likely to be related to the band and therefore can be found here. --Neon white 18:01, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The content of that Kaulitz page hasn't been merged yet. Im reverting. WP:BOLD Patcat88 (talk) 19:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

That was because most of it was unsourced. --Neon white (talk) 20:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Tokio Hotel Emo

Considering the content of the lyrics and the fashion-style of Tokio Hotel, they aren't a glam-rock-type band. Emo would be the more appropiate Term. 89.53.122.145 18:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

But seeing as the band doesn't consider them punk or emo(They have said this in many interviews), it would be inappropriate to mark the article as such. AngelOfSadness talk 23:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

They have far more in common with glam rock and visual kei, i can't see much to do with emo in their music. --Neon white 23:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

They are desbribed as glam or glam rock on enough sites to have it in the article. --Neon white (talk) 20:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Neon white. And in Germany there are enough sources (in German only) which prove that Tokio Hotel themselves have always stated that glam rock is part of their musical identity. --Fromgermany (talk) 16:08, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

No speculation but verifiable facts only!!!!

Please keep in mind: an encyclopedia is just to state facts and not unsourced, speculative material. And please refrain from adding your own point of view. This is highly un-encyclopedic.
--Fromgermany (talk) 16:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

LISTEN People, its me, who is constantly deleting "glam rock" from TOKIO MOTEL article. I'm being accused of vandalism, but the only thing i'm doing, is not lettting "glam rock" into this article. You cant call TH glam rock, just because one of those *** said that they play GLAM ROCK. If i say that im a king, am i a king? Calling TOkio hotel glam rock, is offensing bands like SLADE or KISS. Think about it for a while!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.14.90.50 (talk) 00:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

If you continue to vandalise the article you will be block from editing it. Genres are not perjorative, they are of no point of view, they are merely a categorisation of popular music. --Neon white (talk) 01:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

But one should keep in mind that there are tons of sources saying they are glam rock and the band consider themselves glam rock. Both of these are good enough reasons to have glam rock in the infobox. The band have also been said to have smidgens of punk rock and more importantly Visual kei and it happens that both of these genres are derivative forms of glam rock AngelOfSadness talk 19:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for stating this so clearly. Sadly I guess this won't convince the IP. --Fromgermany (talk) 00:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

In the glam rock article there is no mention about TH being glam rock. They are also not listed in the list of glam rock bands. All music guide doesn't say that they are glam rock. The fact is that they are not a glam band, but they are alternative rock band. JNCooper —Preceding comment was added at 09:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

They are cited as a glam rock band, what is not contained in other wikipedia article is not a reliable source. All this says is that they should be in those articles. Similarily a website failing to saying they are is not source, allmusicguide is only one questionable source and is certainly not the absolute source for genres. --neonwhite user page talk 20:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Everyone here saying TH are a glam rock band simply have no idea what glam rock sounds like. Your "sources" are no better than any random google hit (btw try googling for Tokio Hotel and glam rock). Show me one critic or musician other than TH themselves that name them glam rock and I'll shut up (I seriously doubt they could name one glam artist themselves, but that's another matter). But as for now glam rock will be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.22.8.97 (talk) 22:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The source is mtv, it is a verifiable source. Any more deleting of content will likely result in a ban. Your personal opinions are of no interest to this article. --neonwhite user page talk 16:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all this isn't your playground were you can show everyone who is the boss. Secondly your personal opinions has just as much interest and vality as those of everybody else, namely none. And lastly some mtv news board was never considered a reliable (I think that's the word you mean) source, even less if it is in Italian, no offense, but if no German or English site consider a German band Glam Rock, the band simply isn't. I googled for Tokio Hotel and Glam Rock, and the first 20 hits were from either non-English or non-German speaking sites (same issue as with the Italian mtv page), this page and a few sites where TH and Glam Rock had been incoherently found. If you continue adding Glam Rock as a genre without a reliable proof (forget verifiable, anything found on the internet is verifiable, reliability is what's important) and threaten other users you might as well be banned for violating etiquette. Why is this issue so important to you anyway? Nobody aside from yourself said they were Glam Rock, and you do not own this page, more less this site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorwath (talk • contribs) 19:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages decides it's content on the basis of verifiability. I suggest you read the policy and guidelines carefully before making any future edits. The sources provided are perfectly verifiable, the language of sources does not change that. This has been decide by a consensus of editors based on the multitude of sources listed above. I highly recommend reading how to edit in a civil manner. --neonwhite user page talk 19:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Read them yourself, it states that verifiable means that you should be able to check the information from a reliable source, which you can't. You are the one threatening people, so stay civil yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorwath (talk • contribs) 19:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Mtv is a relaible source according to all policy. I have made no personal threats. --neonwhite user page talk 19:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay I can understand a certain bullheaded indivudual considers mtv word law. Do yourself a favour and listen to a real Glam rock artist. Your childish behavior can only mean that you are an immature kid that can't face the fact that he likes pop music. Do not see this as an insult, it is more a promt to prove me wrong. I will refrain from editing, but promise me to listen to a real Glam rock artist and compare their music to TH. You will realise you (and mtv) are wrong.

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