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	Jimmy Wales was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result June 15, 2006 Peer review Reviewed July 5, 2006 Good article nominee Listed October 10, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted October 17, 2006 Good article reassessment Kept June 13, 2007 Peer review Reviewed December 20, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Delisted good article

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This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: Speedy Keep, 2007-08-31, see discussion. Speedy Keep, 2007-08-14, see discussion. Keep, 2005-05-31, see discussion.

Template:WP1.0

If you need to contact Jimbo about something, please do so at User talk:Jimbo Wales, not here. As Jimbo explains... "People who are trying to leave messages for me will likely be more satisfied if they leave messages on my user talk page than if they leave them here. This is the talk page for the article about me, not a place to talk to me. I rarely read this. --Jimbo Wales 06:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)"

Spoken Misplaced Pages

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that are spoken on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Spoken WikipediaWikipedia:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaTemplate:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaSpoken Misplaced Pages

The following Misplaced Pages contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. Jimbo Wales (talk · contribs) / Wales, Jimbo This user has contributed to the article.

Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14

yes]

Relevance of certain topics

I'm having a hard time understanding both the meaning of the following paragraph as well as the relevance of its topic:

"Later, during a question-and-answer period, Wales was asked by a school-aged child what Wales’s favorite article was that a third grader could read. Wales (after some consideration) said that Inherently funny word would probably be the case. He later cautioned that a parent may want to check on this before sending their child to the site. However, perhaps a new word will be added to this article because the questioner after a few attempts at pronunciation asked if “genie-whatever that was” was one of those words, and if it was the study of genies. Wales said that this question should be answered by his parents and continued with the forum."

This seems to be an anecdote, but nothing more. I do not feel that it should be included in the article. It is also difficult to comprehend without careful examination. What does everyone think?

Also, the "Personal Philosophy" section does not seem relevant to me. Everyone has a personal philosophy, and usually it is not notable unless this philosophy was a major cultural influence (such as in the case of Adam Smith or Ayn Rand). Furthermore, the philosophy of "freedom, liberty, basically individual rights, that idea of dealing with other people in a matter that is not initiating force against them", seems basically the same as what we in America know as "progressivism", so I would not say it is even a notable philosophy.

Feedback, anyone? BrickMcLargeHuge 03:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Both segements should be deleted - it would improve the article greatly if they were removed. 67.184.29.7 00:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Only the first should be deleted. The personal philosophy is inherently notable for (someone claiming to be) a founder of an encyclopedia. And Objectivism is not progressivism. Bramlet Abercrombie 01:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I would nuke them both, but thats me :) --Tom (talk) 01:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

That's not progressivism; communitarianism, perhaps. (like most of Misplaced Pages's editors; or perhaps you'd prefer "socialism". "Eight Ways to Run the Country" is a good source.)

What a clever guy

This guy made Misplaced Pages. He must have 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000IQ

Hey, it's not like he didn't have help. 68.117.211.187 (talk) 06:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Nah, he decided to purge that help, along with the rest of the truth on Misplaced Pages.

Speaking of Sanger, there's been a little edit war over the controversy section, with two editors undoing User:Jhurlburt's edit to change "Misplaced Pages co-founder** Larry Sanger" (where *s are citations) to just "Sanger". I'm going to repeat the same edit, but I'm going to explain my reasons here so I don't end up as a candidate for WP:LAME. The preceding sentence already mentions Sanger, and the fact that there is controversy over Jimmy editing this article to remove references to Sanger as co-founder. Thus, it is a simple matter of style to say that (1) you don't need to mention the full name, and (2) you don't have to call him a co-founder. It's not like the citations are lost, either, because they're both repeated from elsewhere. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 21:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems that it would be clunky to mention Sanger as co-founder in the previous sentence. The next sentence introduces Sanger's comments so its appropriate and in context to call him co-founder there. I am not sure if as much space is given to flesh this point out is really needed. It seems like it rambles abit at the end of that section and we have multiple quotes of Wales calling it preposterous and absurd?? The whole thing could be shortened. Anyways, --Tom (talk) 00:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The way I see it, I'm not sure it has to be mentioned at all. The first time Sanger's name is mentioned is in a description of his role in creating Misplaced Pages, so obviously calling him a co-founder there isn't really necessary. Then, in this section, the previous sentence refers to Jimmy removing references to Sanger as co-founder, thus at the very least establishing the fact that there is a claim of Sanger being a co-founder. Then, in the "Development of Misplaced Pages" section, we apparently have more of the "Jimmy says he isn't, but these sources say he is" (which incidentally isn't about the "Development of Misplaced Pages" at all anyway - may as well call it the "Co-founder controversy"), and finally, in Sanger's article, all the evidence is presented again.

I certainly don't dispute the claims that Sanger is a co-founder, but I agree with Jhurlburt's edit summary that suggests that the "Misplaced Pages co-founder Sanger" bit is "shoehorning" the fact in. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 04:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Hang on, I notice that was actually just split off from the "Misplaced Pages biography" section by User:QuackGuru. Like I just said, at the very least I'm not sure it's the right title for the section. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 05:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't like my edit. Therefore, I reverted it. Happy?  Mr.Guru  talk  05:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

redirected from fatass

just thought you should know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.225.199 (talk) 22:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Early roles of creators

What's the point of this section in a biography? Seems like it would be more relevant in an article about the early history of Misplaced Pages. It should be deleted. 68.117.211.187 (talk) 17:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, it contains several classic errors, such as that Sanger was responsible for the idea of applying the wiki concept to the encyclopedia project. The first person to propose it to me was a different employ, Jeremy. And even in Sanger's telling of the history, the idea was given to him by a friend of his, Ben Kovitz. I do not think Sanger has ever claimed to have had the idea.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 01:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, for heaven's sake! I used to think you must be a really great guy, but this shabby business of you trying to take the credit away from Larry Sanger has severely lowered my opinion of you. It's not that I think that it doesn't matter who was responsible for what - I think it's very important, if only because knowing what someone has achieved in the past allows you to judge how much time to give their ideas in the present and future, which is of course important given that we only have a finite amount of time to give to other people's ideas. It's just that the evidence that Sanger presents is surely concrete. Contrary to what you write above, and as I have no doubt you are very well aware, Sanger does not claim that the idea of applying the wiki concept to an encyclopedia was Kovitz's, but merely says that Kovitz introduced him to the concept of a wiki. Sanger has claimed all along that he had the idea of Misplaced Pages (as well as coming-up with the name). If you know anything about history, you should know that the truth always comes-out, and becomes widely recognised, with time. All you've achieved with this childishness is to ensure that history will refer to you as the guy who co-founded Misplaced Pages, but who tried to make everyone believe that he was the sole founder. 89.241.173.47 (talk) 16:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that was quick

Are you sure that reads better than my version? SamEV (talk) 23:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I preferred your edit. The concept of good grammar escapes some people. Jhurlburt (talk) 02:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. The version they prefer is every bit of an eyesore. SamEV (talk) 23:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Why was this erased (was it good faith vandalism)

Can someone explain this edit?

According to Wales this is true.

 Mr.Guru  talk  02:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Did you even read the reference you posted? The information in Wales' bio is wrong according to the reference. This is what you restored:

"In 1999 Wales had a student design software for a top-down design multilingual encyclopedia website; however, it proved to be too slow to be usable."

And this is what the reference says:

"Jimmy Wales: I had the idea for a freely licensed encyclopedia written by people in various languages in 1999, and I had a philosophy student design it. The problem was that it had a top-down design and was way too slow."

The philosophy student Wales refers to was Sanger and the encyclopedia was Nupedia. Sanger didn't design the software for the Nupedia, he just setup the framework for the encyclopedia. The sentence you keep on reinserting makes it sound like he hired some student to build a program to run an online encyclopedia but it was too slow and buggy to work. This is not the case.

Your addition to the section "Early life" is also quite poor:

"...Doris, and his grandmother, Erma, ran a small private school, in the tradition of the one-room schoolhouse, where Wales received his education. Wales' early education took place in a one-room schoolhouse.".

Sounds a bit redundant to my ears. Almost as redundant as the line you keep adding to the section "Misplaced Pages biography":

"...Wales had removed references to Sanger as the co-founder of Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages co-founder Sanger commented that..."

Literally three words separate the two co-founder statements. Jhurlburt (talk) 04:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this guy even of note?

Why is there an artical on this guy, I thought it was against the wikipedia rules to make personal articles about non-public figures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.237.141.203 (talk) 03:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was also under the impression vanity pages were against the rules Schnauzerhead (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

This should be at the bottom of the page, but anyway ... First, it's not a vanity page - that assumes it's written by the person who it's about, or someone closely related to them, and while Jimbo has edited the article at times, most of the text is definitely not his. Second, the threshold for deletion is WP:BIO, which requires multiple non-trivial references to the article's subject in reliable secondary sources to determine notability, and if you take a look at the number of references in the article you will see that there is no problem with that. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 04:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

NPOV problems, as usual

"During this time one of the projects Wales undertook was the creation of a dot-com erotic soft-core pornography search engine, Bomis, that later helped in the initial funding for Misplaced Pages."

Bomis was not an "erotic soft-core pornography serach engine". It was a general interest search engine, which covered the whole of the Internet. It is absurd to repeat this lie yet again, even when later in the article there is the very clear section about me disputing this nonsense.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 01:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I removed the interesting part of that sentence, which Jossi had altered. The reference given plainly doesn't support any characterization of Bomis, except as a search engine. It further doesn't purport the characterization of the site to be at all significant to jimbo, except insofar as he opposed calling it porn. Someguy1221 (talk) 07:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Bomis

Could somebody please tell me what is supposed to be controversial about Bomis? Guy (Help!) 16:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Its very nature. Wales describes it as a search engine, whereas others seem to remember it essentially as a porn portal. The matter wouldn't be controversial, of course, if Wales hadn't removed it from the Internet Archive, in which case anyone could see what it was... Bramlet Abercrombie 16:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

So that gets discussed on Bomis. Oh, hey, look, it is discussed on Bomis! There is nothing especially controversial about that, though, is there? I mean, it's not like he's Larry Flynt or anything. Guy (Help!) 16:35, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Then you might as well remove the Misplaced Pages-related information, because it's discussed on Misplaced Pages, and cut the article down to a stub. Bramlet Abercrombie 16:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

• Also it would be good to have some indication that "Wales edits own biography shock" has made the front page of Time or something; I feel it's distinctly self-referential and not actually of that much interest to anyone else. Guy (Help!) 16:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Things don't have to make the front page of Time to be notable. This was widely reported. Bramlet Abercrombie 16:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It was dfiscussed a bit, a while back. are we sure it's one of the most notable events in Wales' life? That's what we're saying here. Looks like WP:UNDUE to me. Guy (Help!) 16:35, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, his obsession with his own image and his attempt to write Sanger out of history is very telling about his character. Bramlet Abercrombie 16:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey.... keep your personal opinions about people treated in Misplaced Pages articles, out of talk pages. Discuss the article, not the subject. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It's good that he's up front in this way. Having openly admitted that he has an agenda against the subject of this article, it is plain that Bramlet Abercrombie has no business editing the article directly; it's always good to know when people have these strong biases against the subjects of biographies so we can watch and restrict them from damaging the articles. Guy (Help!) 19:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Guy and Jimbo on this one, and re our living people's bio policy we need to respect the subject of this article and his observations about the article. Thanks, SqueakBox 19:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

DOB controversy

Keep - The DOB controversy is notable for several reasons.... various reliable sources disagree about the date, it plays to the debate about the accuracy of Misplaced Pages (i.e. if we can't even provide the correct DOB for Misplaced Pages's founder how can any of the info be trusted) and it ties in with the greater controversy about Wales' editing of his own bio. Plus, from a pragmatic standpoint, it provides an easy reference point for Misplaced Pages editors for when someone decides to change Wales' birthday, which happens every few months. Jhurlburt 18:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

We need refs about the dob controversy, refs indicating different dobs will not do. Thanks, SqueakBox 19:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

See WP:NOR ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

They are there.... I see Wales' blog (normally blogs don't count but if they are maintained by the subject of the bio Misplaced Pages allows it), the article where Wales says nobody knows when his birthdate is and the EB researcher's footnote. 67.91.170.251 20:46, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Please can you give me some refs here on this page to have a look at. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Can someone explain why that is a "controversy" and why it is notable for inclusion? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Jhurlburt: the vast majority of your last 500 edits are exclusively to this article, most of which could be considered tendentious. May you consider stopping this for a while? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The vast majority of my edits are listed to whatever IP I'm assigned when logging on. I only log in when I feel the desire to edit a protected entry. I'll probably stop paying attention to Wales' bio once editors start respecting the concept of NPOV (e.g. stop referring to Wales as the sole founder or shoehorning Sanger in as co-founder every chance they get). Jhurlburt 22:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I am referring to this. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you've already stated that. But do you have anything to say about the article or any particular edits? Personally, I think that the mention in EB and the article by Rogoway provide enough of a bases that a controversy exists. Plus, primary sources can be used in a BLP if the primary source is the person themselves (e.g. Wales' blog and his statements in his Misplaced Pages Talk page). Since some jokers keep on inserting Aug 8th as Wales' birthday every few months having a section that addresses the birthday issue along with all relevant sources seems pretty useful to me. Jhurlburt 00:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

== Re: Rfc: Can statements challanged for a long time and not cited be removed on a biography? ==

You might want to take a look at D. James Kennedy regarding a group of editors who are insisting on keeping unverified (and challanged for a few months via the {{fact}} tag) in the article in contradiction to WP:Verifiability. Thanks for your time and interest. Swarm Internationale (talk) 14:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Citing WikiPedia

I added the BBC News which I read here in our Philippine Daily Inquirer which stressed the importance of WikiPedia for students:

On December 6, 2007, Wales stated at the Online Information conference in London's Olympia that teachers who prohibit students from citing Misplaced Pages are "bad educators". Wales reasoned that new editing and checking procedures make Misplaced Pages more reliable. Florentino floro (talk) 10:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think we should be including every news article that turns up the pike about Wales. We recently deleted a whole section that was nothing but a huge list of such articles and I think the bio is he better for it. I really don't see how this statement by Wales adds to his bio..... it would be a good addition to an article about Misplaced Pages, which this is not. 68.117.211.187 (talk) 17:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Repeated text in the article:

During this time one of the projects Wales undertook was the creation of the web portal Bomis, a website featuring user generated content that linked to adult content on the Internet and which The Atlantic Monthly called the "Playboy of the Internet." Bomis also provided the initial funding for the Nupedia project. During this time one of the projects Wales undertook was the creation of the web portal Bomis, a website featuring user generated content that linked to adult content on the Internet and which The Atlantic Monthly called the "Playboy of the Internet." Bomis also provided the initial funding for the Nupedia project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.116.31.46 (talk) 17:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Nufy8 (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Bomis paragraph in Career subsection

What's the point in having this paragraph in the Career subsection?

Bomis sold erotic materials until mid-2005. Wales was asked in a September 2005 C-SPAN interview about his previous involvement with what the interviewer, Brian Lamb, called "dirty pictures." In response, Wales described Bomis as a "guy-oriented search engine," with a market similar to that of "Maxim" magazine's scantily clad women. In a phone interview with Wired News, he also explained that he disputed the categorization of Bomis content as "soft-core pornography" saying, "If R-rated movies are soft porn, it was porn. In other words, no, it was not. That description is inaccurate."

Wouldn't this be better utilized under the Misplaced Pages biography subsection or in the article for Bomis itself? 68.117.211.187 (talk) 18:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it is okay where it is as Bomis was clearly a part of his career. I have, though, removed "Bomis sold erotic materials until mid-2005." as unreferenced, please do not return without a Reliable Source. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the paragraph above is in the right section as it seems to be connected to a contraversy later in his carreer about the nature of Bomis.com. If you don't know anything about later events it is unclear why the site's nature is such a big deal. If this is connected to the edits to his Misplaced Pages biography in 2005 then I think this information should be in that section. If this information is notable for other reasons the information needs moving to the relevant section and its importance needs to be explained in the article. --Kaly99 (talk) 19:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

GA Sweeps (on hold)

This article has been reviewed as part of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

The lead is too short. It should be 2-3 paragraphs long.

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far. Regards, Ruslik (talk) 08:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

This article also has stability problems. It changes significantly, sometimes week by week and is a constant source of edit warring. It's verifiability and neutrality are also in question.... at least in regards to the sections Roles of creators and Misplaced Pages biography. Does it really meet the criteria of a good article? 68.117.211.187 (talk) 16:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Added cleanup notice on main page in order to promote edits that will preserve Good Article status. Jhurlburt (talk) 16:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed the cleanup notice, because the reason it was put in the article ("to promote edits that will preserve Good Article status") is taken away by delisting the article. And otherwise the notice could be added to all articles that are not of GA status. – Ilse@ 01:17, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

As I can observe the lead has not been expanded. In addition a clean-up tag was inserted into the article. I feel that I have no other option except delisting this article. Ruslik (talk) 12:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Please help me - I just want to clear my name now

This section moved to User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Please_help_me_-_I_just_want_to_clear_my_name_now

Wow! You'd have thought the guy suggested that "Jimbo" Wales didn't create the idea for Misplaced Pages! Sorry, not currently logged in... 222.8.158.107 (talk) 17:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

V8 juice

Do you like spicy V8 Juice? Some magazine said you always had it in the refrigerator, according to 67.81.42.30 76.109.59.213 (talk) 17:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is actually Nupedia!

I didn't know that Wales "co-founded the free online encyclopedia Nupedia (2000), that was later renamed to Misplaced Pages (2001)". Wow, the more you know! 67.184.29.7 (talk) 23:25, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually it is a lie put here by people who want to adversely affect Wales' reputation. Unfortunately wikipedia is not always reliable, as in this case as he was the founder of wiokipedia. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Well, I guess someone should correct the article's lead. I would but the article is protected.67.184.29.7 (talk) 02:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding "Media and honors" section

I've made a list form of that section in my sandbox. Strangely, I've noticed that the way the current section is arranged seems to resemble a list that was changed to be more "encyclopedic". I wasn't sure if that really was the case, even after looking in the history tab and the this talk page's many archives. As a result, I could be just be suggesting an old suggestion...

For now, though, would my draft be suitable as a replacement for the current section? CptCutLess (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I like it. However, I think we should limit the list only to the many awards and honors that Mr. Wales has received and not include every single media appearance the man has made. I see no reason why Wales' Nov. 4th 2006 appearance on Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! is so notable as to warrant listing. In another vein Wales' Dec. 6th, 2007 quote about teachers who refuse to let their students use Misplaced Pages should be worked into the article instead of being thrown haphazardly into a list. Jhurlburt (talk) 07:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I can definitely agree with those two appearances. I copied this article's "Personal Philosophy" section to my sandbox, too, and just added the Dec. 6, 2007 quote to that section. I really don't think the Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! appearance is all that important, either (at least not for an encyclopedia). Well, I'm going to replace the article's certain sections with my section and see how things work out. CptCutLess 17:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Question

This is proberbly the wrong palce, although as a relatively new editor I dont feel confident putting this on the guys uuserpage. I followed some links from another userpage, and something came up about a mailing list scandal, and stuff like that, is this all a load of BS? Or is it untrue that WP: THERE IS NO CABAL? Cos certain behaviour shown in the article of users and admins here are in common with behaviour Ive seen before, but Im reluctant to just believe anything I read especially as this is quite a big issue from waht I gathered. So was there really a mailing list scandal? Do users really get blocked for questioning authroity? Also, were several (namely four) articles policed by editors intent on what I can only assume was shilling? I dont mean to accuse anyone, I just wnna see if there is an y truth in this based on the facts, or whether its just stupid. Dont just delte my comment if you feel its in the wrong place or somethign without awnsering, cos that would just confirm for me that THERE IS A CABAL.86.138.116.141 (talk) 16:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Quick summary: An administrator blocked a user, and when questioned about it said that the evidence was confidential, but had been emailed to other administrators and aribtration committee members. It turned out that the block was apparently invalid. As a result of this (and I believe other cases), there was a whole bunch of discussion about whether such confidential evidence was really the right way to go, including an arbitration case and a proposed policy in the works. Then certain media outlets and organisations, including several that are known to be highly critical of Misplaced Pages, picked up on it and magnified the drama past even the level it reached on-wiki, turning it into cries of "OMG SEKRIT ADMIN MAILING LISTS". As for the rest of your questions, I'll just point out that there are many policies and guidelines explaining how to treat articles, and editors, and 99% of the time they work. And next time, you certainly can post on User talk:Jimmy Wales, where you're just as likely to get an answer like this from a person like me as from Jimbo himself, anyway. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 16:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

GENIUS!!!

This guy must be a genius if he made this entire site!!!!!! Of course, he had some help, but making all these templates... It's a popularly used resource for research in this generation!!!!! WOW!!!!!! Just goes to show when you have a genius and lots of people around the world to help, you can really make something big!!!! Hananoshi 20:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Hananoshi

Have a son with him if you really like him ¬_¬. This is a talk page, not a forum. --Twicemost (talk) 07:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, he didn't create everything, but he did found it. If you'd like to compliment him directly, he's got an account; User:Jimbo Wales. Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 07:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

As bad as I have ever seen it

1. Bomis was not an "adult webportal". This is trolling, plain and simple. 2. WP:UNDUE is the only response I have to the nonsense of having my disagreements with Larry Sanger in the lead paragraph. I have done many interesting things in my career, and had many newsworthy things to say about many different things, but this is chosen as somehow being important enough to include in the lead... This, too, is trolling, plain and simple.

Notice, by the way, that Bomis was a fairly unimportant project from the beginning of my career, and not what most readers will be interested in. It is, of course, what most trolls are interested in, due to the ongoing smears about it. This article is a complete disgrace.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I removed the Sanger business from the lead. --Tom 15:55, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Bad educators?

"On December 6, 2007, Wales, while at the Online Information conference in London's Olympia, stated that teachers who prohibit students from citing Misplaced Pages are "bad educators". Wales reasoned that new editing and checking procedures make Misplaced Pages more reliable." This is complete rubbish. Did no one bother to ever read the actual text of that article? My position, as I state repeatedly in the media and elsewhere, is that teachers should generally prohibit students from citing Misplaced Pages: same as ever. I certainly do not call teachers who make such prohibitions "bad educators". This article is an embarassment.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

How would you rewrite that section? Does it even belong in the article? TIA --Tom 15:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I have removed it. I suggest if anyone wishes its inclusion they should discuss here first. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Restored. "Citing" had already been changed to "accessing," resolving the concern of inaccuracy. Mike R (talk) 14:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I've corrected the sentence to reflect what Jimbo is reported as actually saying in the article. The blurb at the start of the BBC article doesn't accurately reflect the content of the article for example as the world teacher is not used in the body of the article. --Kaly99 (talk) 16:47, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow. You have to be a real asshole to talk to us that way. I have contributed over 8,000 edits to wikipedia. My time was donated, for free. I never made money off of Misplaced Pages, nor was I ever flown around the world to promote it. I didn't make a name for myself off of it. If someone made a mistake with that quote (and it wasn't me, as I have never edited this page), the least you could do for the contributors who have gotten you where you are is politely point out that a mistake has been made and request someone to fix it. No one likes having their work called "rubbish" and "an embarassment ." As for me, you've convinced me to stop working on this project. --Descendall (talk) 09:16, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

While I don't believe that it was your intention, Jimbo, and the comments about doing it all for free and not flying around the world promoting a subject are neither here nor there, I generally agree with Descendalls sentiments that you are being rather harsh on the editors here. If the text wasn't checked, then that's a mistake. Which can be corrected. This is afterall a wiki. I understand that it is hard to remain civil if you are being misquoted, and words are put in your mouth that you didn't say, and put you in a bad light. This is in essence a BLP issue, which should be taken seriously, and that other options that are available for other subjects of articles like OTRS are not available to you in a normal way, but that tone is really uncalled for. You know it's a wiki. Civilty on the web was practicly unheard of before you introduced it. You have done a lot for civilty on the web. Let's adhere to it. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

"Civilty on the web was practicly unheard of before you introduced it." Give me a break! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whentittie (talk • contribs) 22:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Refactored comment. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 00:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Text of Jehovah's Witnesses

This introduction smear Jehovah's Witnesses and I write over NPOV text, but Japanese Wikipedian adoministrators block my contribution because of my faith, then I will decide to bring this case. Please comment. 125.193.23.145 (talk) 06:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Quit edit warring

Can we please quit this slow motion edit war about whether Wales was the founder/co-founder/sole-founder/whatever else I'm missing? In particular, I see that Bramlet Abercrombie and SqueakBox have been going at it, the past few days. I have no opinion on the outcome of the argument, other than that the edit war needs to stop before blocking and protection become tempting options. – Luna Santin (talk) 10:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Certainly the consensus above is not to mention this in the opening; its only Bramlet who wants it in the opening, there are clearly BLP concerns here as well. Bramlet might care to discuss his behaviour here. Thanks, SqueakBox 19:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually the consensus was precisely the version I reverted to, namely to mention his "role in founding" or that he was "involved in founding" rather than either calling him founder or co-founder. Bramlet Abercrombie (talk) 20:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Image size

Does anyone know how to reduce the image size in the infobox template? It's too large and it's making him look slightly maniacal. SlimVirgin 13:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added image size to the info box template on the page and set it to 200px for now, if the ratio needs changing use 200x300px (max width & max height). If the problem is the image itself there's a nice picture on the top of Jimbo's userpage that could be used instead. --Kaly99 (talk) 13:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

That looks much better, Kaly, thank you. SlimVirgin 14:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Revisionism

To claim Wales engaged in revisionism is blatant POV pushing and makes him sound like a Stalionist. please do not re-add. Thanks, SqueakBox 19:52, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Squeak, re: your edit summary, I didn't undo all your edits, just the name thing. :-) SlimVirgin 20:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

If it makes him sound like a Stalinist, it is perhaps because he acts like one in so blatantly trying to change history. Bramlet Abercrombie (talk) 20:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This article could actually use a complete rewrite. Regardless of POV or anything else, the writing is just not good, and we highlight things that are not what he's known for, while being a little mealy-mouthed about the stuff that made him famous. I may try to work on something on a subpage, so as not to cause chaos. SlimVirgin 21:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Too short intro

Restored "Too short" tag to encourage the expansion of the intro so it meets Misplaced Pages guidelines. The lack of a proper intro was the main reason this article lost it's "Good Article" status. Jhurlburt (talk) 22:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

DOB

There are conflicting sources as to what his birthday really is.

The Florida public records say his birthday is August 8, 1966. Sources: http://blog.oregonlive.com/siliconforest/2007/07/on_wikipedia_and_its_founders.html and here: http://blog.jimmywales.com/index.php/archives/2007/08/08/my-birthdate/ he insinuates that his birthday is August 8, 1966 by saying Britannica is wrong (which lists his birthday as August 7).

I think we should change this article to list his birthday as August 8 instead of August 7 because according to his blog, August 7 is wrong, or at least give note saying that his DOB is debated. Save-Me-Oprah 09:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

This is already covered in his biography. More reliable, verifiable sources list his birthday as Aug. 7th. I've copied the relevant information below. 68.117.211.187 (talk) 18:38, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Wales had previously edited his entries on Misplaced Pages and on the Wikimedia Foundation's website in 2004 to indicate his date of birth is August 7, 1966. He also made a statement in 2006 in which he wrote in part: "My date of birth is not August 8, 1966." The Encyclopædia Britannica, Current Biography, and Who’s Who in America support these statements. According to a researcher’s note on the Britannica’s website in June 2007, Wales contacted Britannica claiming that the date of August 7, 1966 was incorrect but was unwilling to provide them with a documented alternative. On July 27, 2007, when asked by Oregonian reporter Mike Rogoway when his birthday was Wales is reported to have mysteriously stated, "Nobody knows." Moreover, on his blog Rogoway claims that a Florida public records search shows that Wales’ drivers license lists his date of birth as August 8, 1966. In August 2007, Wales expanded on this in his Misplaced Pages talk page by stating, in part: "In any event, the quotes in the Oregonian are correct."

Wife

Why does the article name his daughter, but does not name his wife? Wjhonson (talk) 04:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Co-founder dispute and BLP

The following articles mention Wales as co-founder, including with refs, and yet none of the articles have anything whatsoever to do with the dispute. Thus for biography policy reasons the co bit must be removed. Its okay in articles with relevance to the dispute but articles such as August 7 and Eric Hellweg clearly have nothing to do with the dispute, I am concerned people have been spamming this information into the articles in order to promote POV in this real life dispute. I bring it here because I based my research on the what links here page of the article. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Asia Commons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• August 7 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (birth section)
• Blogdex (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) ref x 2 (indeed the only refs in the article relate to dispute)
• Computer Security Institute (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) ref x 2
• Criticism of Microsoft (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Eric Hellweg (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) ref x 2
• Imagine (TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) ref x 2
• James Wales (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) dab page
• Jimbo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) dab page
• Librarians in popular culture (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of University of Alabama people (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Louise Blouin MacBain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Mark Fletcher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 2 refs
• Mark Taylor (politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 2 refs
• Net@nite (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Notable Auburnites (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Open source political campaign (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Owning the Future (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Peer-to-peer (meme) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Randolph School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Sollog (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• St. Petersburg, Florida (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• TED (conference) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

You're making no sense at all. At August 7, for example, every listed person has a similar description, and co-founder is a factual description for Wales. I agree the refs should not be necessary, but they were added precisely to deter people like you from removing the "co-". As to "the dispute": again, there is no such thing. Wales alone disputing a well-sourced fact doesn't create "a dispute". Come back when you have a single relevant source clearly taking Wales' position. Bramlet Abercrombie (talk) 17:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Why should any of the articles have to be about "the dispute" to confirm he was known as co-founder? David D. (Talk) 18:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

No, the question is why we should include the information. Remember our policies make it very clear that it is the person who adds info not he who removes it who has to jsutify themselves. Thjis is aminor point in Jimmy's life so why do you claim it is notable enough to go inot articles that have no relevance tot he dispute. To claim IO am making no sense at all strikes me as you need to re-read what I have written as your failure to comprehend is not my responsibility. Wales has countless times on wikipedia made it clear that he objects to this and therefore we have serious WP:BLP policy concerns here too. I dont to need to source Wales position to remove the info from articles that have no relevance to the dispute but you have certainly to prove notability and have so failed dismally. I await something better. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

We should include the information because we include similar information for any other person in those articles. It's not a minor point in Jimmy's life that he co-founded Misplaced Pages, it is the thing that makes him most notable. What facts people object to is irrelevant. We aren't talking about some matter of privacy so that has nothing whatsoever to do with BLP. It has to do with NPOV. Yes you need to source Wales' position if you want to put it in the article, but there is no source other than Wales himself, thus it's meaningless. Bramlet Abercrombie (talk) 18:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's what Misplaced Pages's first press release has to say about who founded Misplaced Pages, released one year after the founding (Jan. 15th, 2002):

"The founders of Misplaced Pages are Internet entrepreneur Jimmy Wales and philosopher Larry Sanger. Wales has supplied the financial backing and other support for the project, and Sanger, who earned a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Ohio State in 2000, has led the project."

I think that should settle the matter. 68.117.211.187 (talk) 19:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The matter is not at all settled, we haven't even begun from the look of it. You have still failed to show the notability of adding the co-founder bit of founder to any off topic articles, and without some very strong arguments it will need to be removed from all 23. I suggest we do this one article at a time. As I say I ma okay to keep the mention in relevant articles like Larry Sanger, Jimmy Wales and Misplaced Pages. Other users have pointed out that even adding to these articles in inappropriate ways is nothing other than trolling and I think this would be particularly apt were unjustified re-additions of co into non-relevant articles without a very strong justification first. I haven't even seen a weak justification yet for any of the 23 articles, and it is important that you are willing to compromise on this one. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

What could be of more notability to Wales than the fact that he is co-founder of Misplaced Pages? And calling him just "founder" is needlessly imprecise. Encyclopedias are supposed to be precise. "Founder" on its own tends to make people assume "sole founder" which would be incorrect here. For an equivalent example, Misplaced Pages also describes Steve Wozniak invariably as "Apple co-founder", never just as "Apple founder" because that would be misleading. Bramlet Abercrombie (talk) 20:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

As Misplaced Pages's earliest press release shows there was more than one founder of Misplaced Pages. In such a case when you need to refer to one of the founders and not all of them you must either say "a founder of..." or "co-founder of...". To simply say "founder of..." implies a singular number of founders, which in this case would be inaccurate. 68.117.211.187 (talk) 22:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

SqueakBox, are you saying that Wales' role in starting wikipedia is unnotable and should not be in this article at all? David D. (Talk) 18:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

You guys are splitting hairs where there are none... Fact is that Wales is an historical founder and current lead of the project. No one refers to Steve Jobs as "co-founder" of Apple. In the same manner, we do not need to prefix his name with "founder" or "co-founder" ... just wikilink his name, and that is enough. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

LOL. Bramlet Abercrombie (talk) 19:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I am aware he is always referred to as the CEO of Apple. As far as him never being referred to as co-founder of apple, that seems not to be the case. David D. (Talk) 19:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

LOL indeed. 800 hits on google for "co-founder" and 12,400,000 hits for his name, which is the point I am making. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

1. Wales, Jimbo (2004-09-18). "Edit by Jimbo Wales at Wikimedia Foundation". Wikimedia Foundation. Retrieved 2007-08-08. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
2. Wales, Jimbo (2004-09-18). "Edit by Jimbo Wales at Misplaced Pages". Misplaced Pages. Retrieved 2007-08-08. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
3. "Wales claim birthdate is not ], ]". Misplaced Pages. 2006-07-11. Retrieved 2007-08-12. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); URL–wikilink conflict (help)
4. ^ Britannica Book of the Year, 2007 "Jimmy Wales". Retrieved 2007-07-25. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help)
5. Current Biography Yearbook 2006 - Publisher: H. W. Wilson (February 28, 2007) ISBN 978-0824210748.
6. Who's Who In America: Diamond Edition - Publisher: Marquis Who's Who; 60th edition (12 October, 2005) ISBN 978-0837969909.
7. "Jimmy Wales's date of birth". Researcher's Note. Encyclopædia Britannica. 2004-09-18. Retrieved 2007-08-08. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
8. Cite error: The named reference DOB was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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