Misplaced Pages

• 82.45.213.208 (talk · contribs) is a Virgin Media IP address, and will probably trace to North of England, as my Virgin Media IP does.

I'll see what I can do regarding this. --Solumeiras (talk) 12:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• • I have put in for an IPcheck at Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/IP check. Woody (talk) 13:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser results are in and the IP has now been blocked - Alison 09:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Rogue admin

Seems we have another rogue admin supplying text of deleted articles, see (look at the end). Also looks like the admin in question is offering to do this on an ongoing basis. Guy (Help!) 23:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this actually against policy? I certainly wouldn't yell rogue admin for just this, or perhaps I am missing something? Prodego 23:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, my first thought is that it shouldn't be a breach of GFDL merely because an article has been deleted from here; all that means is that the article didn't meet our standards but may be ok for use elsewhere. Unless I'm wrong, which isn't unusual. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I've provided deleted articles (not attack articles) for work before, I don't see a problem with it. Lots of admins do it, AFAIK. Keilana| 23:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't feel comfortable with this. What if he accidentally provided confidential information? And to MyWikiBiz, who was banned by Jimbo Wales, AND community-banned under another account? Okay, I may be a little paranoid here, but I still consider the issue valid. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 23:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

if you fel so strongly about this situation, convene an ArbCom and see if you can get hte admin in question sanctioned. i personally felt that s overthe top but you have every rtight to do whatever you want to whoever you want on here, as per WP:BOLD. Smith Jones (talk) 23:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)I can't imagine ArbCom taking this one, even if they've got a quiet afternoon, which is moot. It's a straightforward interpretation of GFDL, and WP:BOLD is not carte blanche for anarchy. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal opinion: All our articles are licensed under the GNU GFDL. Deleting them does not break the license agreement. Anyone can ask for a copy if he wants it, unless the information is not for public discussion (like private telephone numbers, etc). Therefore, I see "giving" deleted articles to others is in accordance to our licensing policy. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It's just a case of "ZOMG!!!!! Banned users getting Seekrit Stuff! Call the cops!!!!!!!!!!!" *Dan T.* (talk) 23:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• I've just restored that last uncorrupted version of this page. Sorry if contribs have been lost, I will check to see whether this is the case. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Yes; some comments were removed from the section below. -Jéské 00:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I was trying to restore those manually but got sidetracked for an explanation; damage limitation & repair sometimes takes time. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I agree I don't see any policy issue with this. Deleted articles are routinely still living in Google cache and routinely supplied to user-space on request with intent to correct. If an article has "personal information" then it should be oversighted in the first place and no mere-admin can view purged data. Wjhonson (talk) 00:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
• There's an entire category of admins who have agreed to provide copies of deleted articles. It is not against policy. Deletion doesn't mean that the material is damned for all eternity to the fires of hell; it means that the material didn't meet encyclopedic standards. It may be perfectly appropriate for another site. The only thing admins should refuse to provide is copyright violations and other material that clearly and obviously has the potential to cause legal trouble. *** Crotalus *** 01:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes... But what you all have to realize is that is has historically been a sensitive issue. Grandmasterka 16:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but they restored personal information, something which admins should never do. It is stated on the deleted copies category that any personal/libelous information will not be restored. I think this is a different case, where the articles concerned are non-notable people/groups have and the deleted text is not contentious. Woody (talk) 16:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Everyking didn't actually restore anything; he merely gave an indication that he might be willing to look over some particular deleted material and possibly provide a copy to the banned user requesting it. Whether he would have gone through with it, even after looking at the material and seeing that it contained (whatever the heck it contained that was objectionable; privacy violations, libel, or something else evil) is unknown, because he was rapidly desysopped before he could go any further. *Dan T.* (talk) 16:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

So the only affect of this thread is the subtle message "If you give deleted articles to people we do not like you will be called a rogue admin on AN/I." Seems to me that this should be archived. The articles he requested are in the same thread, so another admin can check those to see if anything was inadvertently revealed. Otherwise, this section (titled "Rogue Admin" !!) has no purpose, unless someone is trying to argue that deleted articles, having no privacy violations, should be off limits to regular users. daveh4h 18:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If the article is not deleted for reasons of gross violation (i.e. it's about an entirely non-notable person or thing, or is OR or fails RS) and is not a living persons or legal issue, I really don't see the problem with admins supplying deleted revisions to users on request. If however the article was deleted as a BLP violation or on an OTRS ticket, or is the product of trolling or harassment, then that is an entirely different matter. Orderinchaos 22:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

As noted above, this is giving deleted content available therefore only to trusted users, to banned users, by request outside Misplaced Pages. I suspect this course of action is not supported by consensus. Guy (Help!) 11:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so sure - I think that what matters more than the person to whom the information is being supplied is the nature of the information being supplied. If an article was deleted solely on notability grounds, I see no problem with supplying it to Daniel Brandt, if he wanted it. If it was defamatory or involved somebody's personal information, I do see a problem with supplying it to even a trusted Misplaced Pages user. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 11:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Sarcasticidealist, the content should be the only consideration - there is far less variables to consider than character checking the intended recipient. LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It's just another front in the Misplaced Pages Culture War between those who think this site's function is to collect and disseminate information, and those who think the prime directive is to be punitive towards Enemies of the Wiki. *Dan T.* (talk) 13:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Sarcasticidealist worded my point better than I did. Orderinchaos 16:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

More trouble

Rikara (talk · contribs) has been blocked again for incivility, this time for 31 hours, and he's being absolutely belligerent on his talk page. I think an indef-block or a cluemaul might be in order here; I'm currently talking with him on his talk page and he's being less-than-civil bordering on rabid again. -Jéské 23:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

dont worry jeske i have a lto of experience havndling deranged editors and i will go over ther e and try to reason with UserRikara. Smith Jones (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe if you let things calm down for a while before you look at the talk page again? Jeepday (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried that with a 24 hour block, but he came back the next day as belligerent as before, according to the contribs. I was offline when he was blocked this time and missed the edit-war. -Jéské 00:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll go help. i am en expert dwith dealing with belligenrent users. Smith Jones (talk) 23:55, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit Conflict)He's constantly playing, the "I'm Right, You're wrong", "I'm Innocent, Block them", And the "I'm annoyed by you so shut the **** up" cards. He didn't learn the first time, AND he Violated WP:3RR again, last time he got away with it because he was blocked, but I think we should actually add another 24 hours to his block for that so he doesn't get away with it again.
Better yet, why not block him for, maybe a week, untill the game is out and he can actually PROVE his theories? Dengarde ► Complaints 23:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, Dengarde, blocks are not punitive. -Jéské 00:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm well aware. But we both know that he's going to just come back and do the exact same thing when he's unblocked again in 30 hours, I still say that at LEAST the 3RR violation be added this time. Dengarde ► Complaints 00:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

agreed. a block would be the worst possible solution in this answers. all that resnentment will just pile up and the atmospehre on this talkpage will just getm ore and more pooisonous. the only way a block owuld help is if it was for a week to give him a chance to calm down but i think that everyone here would rather correct User:Rikara's flaws rather than just dismising him out of hands. Smith Jones (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed Blocking is not punitive, I suggest letting User:Smith Jones, address the user. If there is a violation in an article, block per standing policy. And don't respond on his talk page until the block has expired. Jeepday (talk) 00:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have already blocked him for this comment, and his consistent background of disruption (adding unsourced information, not listening to reasons, etc). Shortly after I had to block user 67.171.14.195 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) who went on disrupting the article, I guess it was him again. I think that will give him a time to reconsider his actions. I have also left a message in the talk page of the article saying that I would just protect the article until the game is released. Interestingly, people want to have the article fully protected and edit through requests. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for saving User:Smith Jones the awesome responsibility of negotiating. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Rodhullandemu, the block by ReyBrujo was made before this came up here, it was not in response to anything that was said here. I think you're assuming that he blocked after Jeepday's comments, and that's not the case. Corvus cornix_talk 00:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Although I blocked him for his unnecessary aggressive comment, feel free to unblock him now that the articles are fully protected. Next time it would have been a good idea to post a comment in the article talk page to let everyone know about this discussion. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Per request of the community I have Protected this article until February 14 Diff Jeepday (talk) 00:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That's all well and good, except that the disruption is mainly on a different article - Super Smash Bros. (series). -Jéské 00:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Eh? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Did not see that, edit-conflicted when I was removing it. In any case, the main place he's being disruptive is the talk page of the aforementioned series article. -Jéské 01:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't mind if people become heated in a talk page. But when the article is the battlefield, it becomes serious. My only connection with the article is that I am going to buy the game once it is released, but from what I saw in these last days, Rikara has some problems talking with others (or, at least, making himself clear). As I just told him in his talk page, his last edit was reverted by three different users. If that doesn't tell him something, he needs to be temporarily stopped to think about it. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

He hasn't been so much heated as he has boiled over. -Jéské —Preceding comment was added at 01:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

This is way far to go for someone who insists that a forum post is a reliable source. JuJube (talk) 11:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I still can't believe someone is getting to the point of using far too many capital letters, incivil language etc for a number of days over articles or content relating to characters in a Nintendo game. Orderinchaos 22:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Problem user

Marcopolis (talk · contribs) seems uncommunicative and has gone from adding oversized images to articles, to completely replacing wikiformatting in articles with html formatting. I've asked him to use edit summary, made suggestions to him, and explained reverts in edit summaries, but he seems to plow forward undaunted. His edit here , leads me to believe his english is not fluent which could be part of the problem, but my french certainly isn't up to trying to converse with him in French. But these are unnecessary , , . As well we had a repeated copyvio issue with him. He's contributing some great photos which might be useful. However I actually question his assertion that he's the copyright holder on this image (and others like it) Image:Seoulines.JPG. I'd rather not see him blocked, but I'm at a loss on how to handle him. I mentioned this on village pump and it was recommended I post this here.--Crossmr (talk) 01:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Is there a policy favoring wiki formatting over HTML? I would note than many times I've found certain wikiformats like tables to be very confusing and in some cases had to resort to HTML fixes because the wikifix is not apparent. As to the Seoul subway image, I agree it seems like a likely copyright violation. Assuming good faith that he merely doesn't understand the various issues the image should be deleted. What is the regular copyvio issue other than that image? The user seems to be interested in being productive, noting his maps uploaded which generally help the project.Wjhonson (talk) 02:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Guide_to_layout, Misplaced Pages:MOS#Section_headings he just had a map deleted because it was a copyvio. Then he uploaded it again and tried to insert it in to the article again. While continuing to claim he had the copyright to it. . which he put back in through this series of edits . Since he's had images deleted for copyvio, he has a message on his talk page about it, yet ignored it to repeat the upload, and then further uploaded images he obviously doesn't have the copyright on, I can't imagine how we're supposed to continue to assume good faith when the user also refuses to respond to any kind of communication. He's also uploading the same copyvio image multiple times Image:Linestyle.jpg Image:Seoulines.JPG, Image:Seoulines.jpg, as well as Image:Smrtclines.jpg, Image:Onlysmtro.jpg, , , , , , , , --Crossmr (talk) 03:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

We should continue to assume good faith. I don't see a lot of cross-talk on his Talk page about the situation. I do see that he's uploaded one image several times that appears to likely be a copyvio. But I don't see an explanation to him of how to address the problem like "You can upload a photograph you've taken *of* the sign, but you can't upload an image that you've copied from someone else..." or whatever. Some sort of suggestion to him, of how to get the essential picture, without violating copyright. That is, trying to steer users to productive uses by appropriate suggestion.Wjhonson (talk) 03:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but we don't assume it blindly, nor is criticizing an editor an automatic assumption of bad faith. I've made a request that he use edit summaries and he's failed to do that. An editor asked him a question in December and I found no evidence that he answered it. I posted a couple of comments on his edits on the article talk page, both of which went unanswered, and I've made comments in my edit summaries point him to guidelines and explaining why I'm doing things. He's repeatedly undoing them without communication. In addition to that he's re-uploaded material that was deleted, for which there was an explanation provided on his talk page and he's ignored that. I'm not saying the communication problem is intentional, his nationality is french, he appears to be living in korea right now (even though his user page indicates attending school in montreal). He may simply not know enough english to communicate here. Not his fault, but if we can't talk to him, and he won't respond or learn from his mistakes on his own (which deleted images, with explanations should tell you) perhaps he's better suited to the french wikipedia where people can communicate with him, unless someone here who speaks enough french wants to try and talk to him.--Crossmr (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

And if you look at his image upload history, he already seems to have pictures of most of those copyvio images.--Crossmr (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

As a start perhaps an admin could nuke those images. I don't think they're being used anywhere right now, and I think its far too obvious that they're unlikely his own creation. I'm still trying to dig up where they may have come from. I'm not sure if it could be a web image or a scan off a map or what.--Crossmr (talk) 01:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Copyrighted material help

Would somebody take a look at BeRecruited.com and it's talk page and help with this? I've chosen not to get too acquainted with copyright issues; I just copy/pasted info from the "Possible Copyright Infringement" box on the article page. Pairadox (talk) 05:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, if Admins here don't want to deal with it, perhaps you could direct me towards those that would be willing to help. Pairadox (talk) 04:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User:KellyAna

This issue is regarding KellyAna. I’m requesting some admins to look into this issue, as I’m getting tired of dealing with her. KellyAna and I have a very bad history, see here,,. A brief on the issue: Our dispute on the Las Vegas TV page ended a couple of days ago, when I decided to leave the site, to work on other sites that had well knowledge editors. Everyone dealing with the Las Vegas dispute stop arguing and moved on, besides KellyAna. She has continued to harass myself and now my relatives. KellyAna has now contacted another admin. Gogo Dodo because of this issue, as she has with several other admins, most of which discarded it because she started the issue. You can check several talk pages where other admins have been disgusted with KellyAna comments and games she plays. Now, KellyAna has been off Wiki, because she claims she was in Daytona. However, the minute she returns she attacks my brother’s talk page. She claims she was trying to help but what she says on her talk page and Blackwatch21’s is nothing but threats and intimation to a new user. One statement from her says, “I can certainly "intrude" in ways that would get you in trouble”. I wouldn’t call that helping. If you look at their history (KellyAna/Irishlass), I counted 6 to 7 new users that they threaten, warn, double team, or intimate. Now I’m pretty sure Misplaced Pages doesn’t want users acting that way to new users joining the site. That’s very unprofessional coming from a professional person KellyAna claims to be. Now that’s the only reason we (KellyAna and myself) came back into contact, is because I saw her mean, unnecessary comments on Blackwatch21’s talk page. As for Blackwatch21, YES that is my younger brother joining Misplaced Pages. Now KellyAna can call it what she wants, I really don’t care. I’m sure ¾ of Wiki users have relatives that have Misplaced Pages accounts. As for the comment I sent to KellyAna, which I’m sure she will mention, was nothing more than me pleading not to make this an issue again but with the type of person she is, she calls it harassment. I just wish that someone would block her, as I’m getting tired of dealing with this. Everyone from the BIG Las Vegas dispute has stopped arguing except for KellyAna. Again I apologize for this issue. I’m trying to make this issue go away, but that’s hard when you’re dealing with troublemakers. If anyone has some advice or actions they could take, that would help a lot. I’m willing to answer any questions or add more info if needed. Like I said, you can read several talk pages that I referenced that shows the history between KellyAna and I. Thanks DJS --DJS24 (talk) 06:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I just want to include that, all I'm asking is for someone to tell her to leave me alone. Gogo Dodo has asked us to go our separate ways, that's what I want and again another admin has come to the conclusion to drop the issue. However, normally this is when KellyAna goes off to another admin and brings up the issue all over again. See here for Gogo Dodo's comments on the issue. I aggree with his/her conclusion but KellyAna normally doesn't listen. --DJS24 (talk) 07:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:Gogo Dodo Gogo Dodo, this has absolutly NOTHING to do with the Las Vegas article, as you can clearly see I have not touched the article since last weekend and have no desre but DJS24 claims I "had to get the last word" when it is clear I moved on last weekend. He then claims I "harassed" his relatives when it was impossible for me to know that there was any relation. I warned someone to remove logos and he jumped on my page. I did not contact him, I still haven't. I came to a neutral third party for advice and he started things up AGAIN. There is an obvious issue here and I'm not the one with it. He makes several false claims which I could point out here but won't. I just wanted your advice as to what to do, but he had to make it a big deal obviously following me around AGAIN. I have been calm and have ignored him, for the most part. Truly, how was I to know they were related? Truly, why was it wrong to tell someone to remove illegal logos on their page? I replied to Blackwatch only after he came to my page followed by DJS24. You'll see, if you truly look into the situation, I'm by and far not the instigator in any of this. I'm copying most of this to the reported incident and will show history that DJS24 is clearly instigating the problems ever since the creation of the sock last weekend. That's my reply this morning to the falsehoods in all of this. I dropped the whole Las Vegas issue and have not even been on DJS24's page but he did come to mine. I had gone to a page to ask for help and clarification on a scab writer for soaps, where I saw a request for "anyone who can help" from another user. I went to that person's page and saw illegal uploads of copyrighted team logos and gently warned/advised the person they should remove them. He replied and told me to stay out of it. I simply explained, on my page, that I was only trying to help him when I could have simply reported the issue, which I could have. He then claims I followed him, when I was clearly lead there by another page User talk:IrishLass0128. The warning was nothing more than to remove illegal logos, which he actually apparently uploaded twice from what I can see and after he was warned by an admin.

The crux of all this is last weekend, DJS24 created a sock who claimed to be a former admin whose account was hacked and jumped in and backed his argument. I caught them and one account was blocked and DJS24 was warned . Yesterday I did ask for advice from an admin rather than creating a report. I actually didn't know Gogo Dodo was an admin when I went to his page, just saw his warning and had worked with him on some Survivor pages. A few minutes after I requested help from Gogo Dodo, and when I could have possibly had no knowledge of any relation, DJS came to my page. I did not go to his as he claims. I have not gone to his page since well before he received the sock warnings. He's the one making this an issue, I've not edited any page with him on it nor have I gone to his page or that of CarsGm5, his blocked sock. I have been very open in this, since last weekend when I reported CarsGm5. DJS24, however, has not been as forthcoming and has been the instigator since last weekend even clouding the true issue on Gogo Dodo's page by bringing up the dead Las Vegas issue, making personal attacks, false claims, and repeatedly implying I'm a troublemaker by simply warning someone about illegal uploads. I assumed good faith with that simple warning, that's not being a troublemaker, that's trying to help a new person not get in trouble. KellyAna (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all, you need to drop the words “personal attack", your not going to get far in life if you think everything is a personal attack. Everything I say, you accuse me of a personal attack. I would also advise you, for your benefit to drop the sock claim, that issue goes very deep, to where you no nothing about. Also, the person that blocked CarsGm5, seems to have a possible relation w/ KellyAna . As I've shown above, the comments from KellyAna to Blackwatch21 were comments to scare, threat, and intimate a new user. Far from helping one. After I saw the comments, as it is my brother's page, sent some comments to Blackwatch21's page to advise him not to get involved in KellyAna. As I know her history and past, and I didn't want her to be the first editor he came into contact with because of this issue right here. KellyAna calls that a personal attack, but I could say HI to her and she would call that a personal attack. It is true, she hasn't sent me anything, instead she's sneaking around talk bad about me to admins. That’s when I sent her a message ASKING to stop this. She calls that harassment (No surprise) and now reports it as me being an instigator. I don't know how I can be an instigator when I'm asking her to stop the issue. This issue has NOTHING to do with the Las Vegas page, as I left that dispute days before KellyAna did. This issue is dealing with a user that won't leave me alone and gets off on scaring new users. Also, let me point out, she seems not to care about,Gogo Dodo the admin who came to a conclusion to drop this issue. She just continues to make this a bigger issue.--DJS24 (talk) 16:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

You really shouldn't be the one telling me to drop anything as the evidence is in my favor that you have followed me around when I asked for advice from another editor, lied about you dropping the Las Vegas issue before me as history shows you clearly have three talk edits after me and Blackwatch even has two and revision history shows I have not touched the infobox. I've not dropped the sock issue because that is the heart of this and I've provided links that provide links to your behavior. In this edit you clear disparage my name and make false claims. IrishLass0128 was around all day Thursday and part of Friday, based on edit history, and I didn't get back until last night. And if they are brothers, why communicate who I am and disparage my name here rather than one on one at home? I also believe the claim that I "get off on scaring new users" is a personal attack.

As to the claims of me knowing the admin that blocked CarsGm5, I have no clue what that's about short of grasping for straws. The user that blocked Cars User:FCYTravis is one I've never encountered and lives in Fairbanks Alaska. I live over 5,000 miles from Fairbanks. How we can have a personal relationship or even be accused there of is beyond me. He claims that I should drop this but I'm not the one that brought this issue here or told people it was here. When someone insist on repeatedly making false claims after being told to drop it, one should be allowed to defend herself. KellyAna (talk) 17:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all, let me point out that KellyAna has a big history of dicing around the issue. Half of her argument is this sockpuppet claim. The same claim that she caused and had someone she knows block the accused sockpuppet. User:FCYTravis simply blocked CarsGm5 without proving or providing facts for his actions. The sockpuppet was a claim made by KellyAna and action was taken by someone KellyAna knows. Also let me point out that this sockpuppet claim was a last resort on KellyAna’s part to keep her side of the issue right. This sockpuppet claim was a big issue in the "LAS VEGAS" dispute. The same dispute that KellyAna claims she doesn't talk about anymore. After the Las Vegas dispute, I have been doing nothing but defending myself against her claims. She attacked Blackwatch21's page, I came to defend him. Then she attacks me on Blackwatch21's page, again I defend myself. Then I find her sneaking around to an admin who has no reference on this big issue, and attacks me again. Again I need to defend myself against her. Let me point out, that Gogo Dodo is the 7th admin she has contacted to try to get me in trouble. All the other admins have discarded her claims. I have nothing against Gogo Dodo; they are just another victim of KellyAna’s desperate attempt to get rid of me because I'm the first person to argue with her to this level. I have also tried several times to stop this issue, instead she calls it harassments. This is just another example of how KellyAna has acted throughout this entire dispute. If you read my references, you will see that several admins. have told KellyAna to drop the issue. She has failed to do that. It's obvious that she doesn't care about admin. notices, advise, conclusions or comments. Finally, it’s funny how everything I say is a personal attack, yet she can speak as freely as she wants.--DJS24 (talk) 20:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Of all that has just been said, I find the accusations against User:FCYTravis the most appalling. I've never seen him, dealt with him, or had any contact with him. Saying User:FCYTravis blocked CarsGm5 because he knows me is yet another false statement by DJS24 to attempt to cover his own discretions. I feel confident that the administrators of Misplaced Pages, if they fully look into this matter will see who is truly at fault. BTW ~ as you can truly see from my contributes on talk pages I've had no contact with FCYTravis and certainly have not talked to 7 admins regarding DJS24. En total I have not dealt with 7 admins. KellyAna (talk) 20:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

To all involved, I will repeat what I said to you on my talk page: I suggest that all parties just separate and avoid each other. No more accusations, no last words, no more messages left on each others pages or other editor's pages. If you see one another, go the other way. If the parties really do mean that they wish to step away from the issue, then step away. Continued bickering over who started what, continues to do whatever, or having the last word is not stepping away. Just agree to disagree and move on. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 20:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Five comments ago that might have been possible but I do wonder now. He's accused an admin of impropriety and that is beyond acceptable. He's made so many false claims after you told him to stop, he's taken this beyond smiling and moving on. The accusations made in regard to FCYTravis is unacceptable. Creating this "report" after you told him to stop is also an issue. KellyAna (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If you want me to stop discusiing this issue and stop talking to KellyAna, I will RIGHT NOW. However I don't think I'm going to be the problem with the conclusion. As from KellyAna's last message, she doesn't seem to want to stop. I'm willing to stop right now. I'm ready. --DJS24 (talk) 21:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

This discussion was opened before Gogo Dodo responded to the issue, review the history.--DJS24 (talk) 21:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Then why did you not drop it but rather reply after Gogo Dodo replied, you put your link to this on his page after his comment? Regardless, the fact is you accused an admin of impropriety and that should indeed be looked into. KellyAna (talk) 21:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not wrong to question an admin's actions. Again you fail to end this, by now bringing up another new issue. Your now going to put me up against an admin to get your way. You just keep proving my points. You should stop talking, its only hurting you. --DJS24 (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not a new issue that I brought up, it is one you brought up and I think the admin should know you've done it. It's a false accusation and unfairly leveled toward him. I do hope FCYTravis sees your accusations, he has every right to put you in your place. And again, you speak only falsehoods or maybe mirrorisms is more accurate in your case. It's wrong to question an admin with false claims. Do you have any proof of any form of relation between the admin and I? Have we ever edited the same page, make comments to one another? Has he ever reprimanded me? No to all. Therefore you accusations are not based in fact and should be looked into. Many things you do should be looked in to. KellyAna (talk) 01:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm done discussing this until an admin steps in(Gogo Dodo has already, but KellyAna has again failed to listen).I hope Gogo Dodo see's that. I wouldn't be surpised if Kellyana responds, as she always needs to get the last word in. --DJS24 (talk) 22:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I just want to point out to everyone that KellyAna has put her information in the wrong order, as her time clearly comes after DJS24's message. I changed it to show the correct information. I also want to point out, that KellyAna has been a problem on my talk page and has personally attack DJS on several different times on my talk page. It was referenced above. --Blackwatch21 (talk) 01:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments returned to original order, I was replying to something and the order was correct where I put it. The comment I replied to was not the last so where I put it was correct. As you can see, there's a questionable issue here, I'm not the one at fault here moving people's comments around to suit personal needs. The "ganging up" by a "relative" is just as unacceptable as sockpuppetry. The situation has gone past assuming good faith when one backs up the other, which is the same situation as last weekend with CarsGm5 before that identity was banned. KellyAna (talk) 01:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I want to apologize for Blackwatch21's comments on this page, obviously as related to me, his comments don't matter. I have advised him not to talk on this page again. He did however notice that KellyAna did put her statement in the false order and has put back in the false order; clearly her time stamp shows that. KellyAna clearly didn't want my statement saying "she needs to get the last word in" to be true. However her, changing the order of words proves that. I'm also seeing now that KellyAna, is trying to pin me against FCYTravis (An admin) in a last effort to try to block me. After FCYTravis block CarsGm5, Cars pointed out some good points on how they might know each other. I have no reason to believe otherwise, as Travis never questioned or disagreed with Cars comments. I'm not questioning Travis's admin duties, I simply don't agree with what he did. KellyAna, can you show me the in rulebook where I can't disagree with an admins choice of actions. Clearly, KellyAna is trying to have FCYtravis come in here mad at me and bully me around, an action that KellyAna would do. However the bigger issue isn't how I disagree with an admins action but how KellyAna is disregarding Gogo Dodo's (An admin) conclusion and request on this issue. The same thing she has done to every other admin that gave a request to stop this. --DJS24 (talk) 02:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments go below the statement they are replying to. My comments weren't out of order. There are no "good points" to indicate any relation between myself and Travis, none what so ever. As an admin, Travis has nothing to explain especially when there's no evidence that Cars' accusations have any validity. You do realize, I've never called for your block, while you have clearly called for mine. KellyAna (talk) 02:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I have never heard of that, but then again you made up the rules as you go. I just wanted to point it out to all the admins that you changed the order of statements to a false order. YES, I have called for your block, as your actions are unacceptable and against all wiki. policies. Please respond, everytime you do, you just prove all my points. --DJS24 (talk) 03:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I want everyone to know, that KellyAna has contacted another admin to join the discussion. This just shows how she disregards any admin's requests that don't go in her favor. This is now the 8th admin she has contacted. No surpise, she has contacted FCYTravis, the same admin to side with her before. I don't have a problem with FCYTravis commenting, I just hope any action taken isn't done by FCYTravis. Its clear now, that KellyAna is trying to pin FCYTravis against me, hoping that she finally finds that ONE admin to side with her. PLEASE some other admins respond to this issue, as my fingers are getting tired of typing on this page. --DJS24 (talk) 03:55, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, false information being stated. I contacted FCYTravis when DJS24 made his previous claims. I notified him that his reputation was being questioned. A courtesy anyone being accused should be afforded. As DJS24 did not afford him the consideration, I did. A cursory glance will see it was a simple notification of his name and reputation being brought into the discussion, not a plea to take a side. I am highly curious, where do you get that I've contacted 8 admins when my edit history clearly shows that not to be the case. As for the comment order, I learned that at Village Pump. Confused me at first, but I learned to understand the rules, not make them up as I went along. And does anyone find it odd that first "the brother" points out the order issue and then DJS claims he pointed it out. Another pattern forming again? See for the oops of editing themselves on the wrong page. KellyAna (talk) 04:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you show me where I took credit for finding those statements out of order. I love your quote, "A courtesy anyone being accused should be afforded". I didn't see that same courtesy to me, when you were tossing my name around like a piece of trash to several admins. Again, the more you talk, the more you look bad.--DJS24 (talk) 04:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

You keep claiming I talked to several admins, but have no evidence of the fact. I talked to Gogo Dodo once, that was it and you followed me there. Where are all these other admins I talked to? I asked Gogo for advice, I didn't trash your name or not notify you. You started this but never notified me, you brought Travis into this but didn't notify him. I afforded Travis the courtesy to see what you've done to his name. You followed me to Gogo's page. What other admin have I contacted? KellyAna (talk) 05:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all you brought up Travis's name. I may have referenced the issue but never mentioned his name until you did. You were talking on his behalf. You should of told Travis about this because you brought up his name, I didn't until you did. And for this OOPS thing, I'm sorry, I was fixing a word he spelled wrong, he is young. I didn't know I couldn't do that. I can't believe how desperate you are in finding any possible flaws in me. I've already pointed out he is related, so stop mentioning him. You're tring to make a 12 year ago kid's username look bad, you must be proud of yourself. I din't realize you could get that low w/ respect. It doesn't matter how many admins you contacted, review your own history, you'll see them in there. The fact of the matter is, you asked for Gogo Dodo's advice, he/she tells you to drop the issue, and then you pretty much throw his/her comments away and continued to argue w/ me. I have asked, suggested and even tried to stop this issue. Your the one that keeps editing and giving out false claims. I'm just defending myself until a admin steps in. Also let me point out, blackwact21 never asked for this, you went to his talk page and started this up again.--DJS24 (talk) 05:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Who started what? You started all of this. And you still haven't produced evidence that I contacted 8 admins. I gave your brother a good faith warning, you're the one who then started this. You could have left it at that but didn't. You're the one that has completely escalated all of this with all the falsehoods and blatant lies you stated. KellyAna (talk) 14:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Please. Both of you, take this elsewhere. This is not an admin issue, it's a pissing contest. GogoDodo had it right—stay away from each other. Horologium (talk) 15:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm done addressing this issue, clearly this is another admin that has asked to stop the issue. I will leave it up to other admins to decide the faith of the issue. Thanks DJS--DJS24 (talk) 15:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely; both of you need to move on. I don't see any big misbehavior here on either side apart from this pointless dispute. In fact, I think you're both asking each other to be left alone. Take your own advice. Don't look through each others' contributions, don't make complaints about each other, don't try to address each others' behavior, just stop. Mangojuice 15:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you, for addressing the issue, it needed to be addressed. Thanks DJS--DJS24 (talk) 16:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Civility issue: User:Perspicacite at AfD

Over at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Corruption in Angola, Perspicacite/Jose João has been acting in an incredibly uncivil manner. I happen to agree with him regarding keeping the article, but I don't agree that it's ok to call placing a prod tag vandalism, accusing the AfD nominator of acting in bad faith, suggest that a 24-hour block for the AfD nomination "would be lenient", lashing out against other editors who question him, or to delete comment objecting to his bad behavior as "harassment".

I had no clue that I was wandering into such a tarpit when I commented on this AfD. Argyriou (talk) 06:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Nor did I when I nominated the article. Perspicacite/Jose João has repeatedly refused to comment on the merits of why the article should stay, and has instead harrased anyone who opposes him. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 08:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

"Anyone who opposes him" consists of you and an editor I have not gotten along with for months. Jose João (talk) 16:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Your failure to be able to work civilly with another editor, to the point where you've been sniping at her and labeling her edits as harassment, ought to earn you a good long block for incivility. Argyriou (talk) 19:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, User Perspicacite (who now signs as "Jose João") has drawn the lesson from previous reports where no action followed, that he is exempted from our usual standards. Even after he was aware of this report, he has effectively thumbed his nose at community standards by repeating the very same behaviour complained of on exactly the same Afd.

When he can overcome his collegiality issues and co-operate with his fellow editors, Perspicacite is a prolific and productive editor that makes useful contributions to our Encyclopedia, so I would not support a block for these proximate incidents. However, he does need to be very firmly warned indeed that removing other editor's comments from talk pages (especially article and project discussion pages) and other personality directed reverts are completely unacceptable behaviours and will be followed instantly by a block in future. He needs to learn that WP:3RR is not the only rule that will be enforced. Alice 20:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, nothing's happened for a bit, so maybe this is resolved. If the user keeps removing comments from AfD, though, or doing other disruptive things, we probably will have to block. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 21:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you may have neglected to look at the piped diffs contained in my comments above which immediately precede your own, Heimstern Läufer. The latest incident of removal occurred less than 5 hours before your statement that "nothing's happened for a bit" but more than 9 hours after these continual breaches were first reported. Although I am an involved editor, I do not think that yet more green approval flags should be waved or "not much to worry about" messages should be sent. Alice 21:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, when I said "nothing's happened for a bit", I did mean "for a few hours". So yes, I read correctly. I was hoping that he had decided to stop. Obviously not the case. My message was not meant to be a "don't worry about it" message, but rather a "let's hope this stops so we don't have to worry about it anymore". Didn't turn out to be the case, alas. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Note also that my note about having to block if he continued hardly suggests I'm waving the approval flag. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Perspicacite has removed my comments at the Afd AGAIN, just now! Obviously he feels totally immune from compliance... Alice 22:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I've left a final warning. We don't do that in AfDs, no matter what we think of opposing comments. For some reason no-one had left a warning, otherwise I would have been clear to block. Should he re-offend, I would suggest a 24 hour block for disruptive editing. Orderinchaos 23:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. (There have been other incidents of comments that he doesn't like being removed from talk pages, so I don't believe that Perspicacite was ignorant of the norms, but I hope he now gets a very clear message.) Alice 23:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

No doubt. My public service training, however, holds that the paper trail is most important. Last thing one wants to do is to take an action only to see it reversed on a technicality. Orderinchaos 01:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Alice, your obfuscation and condescension are truly epic. When you are banned, and you will be, I look forward to administrators undoing each and everyone of your 'edits'. Jose João (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Please refactor the above comment: it seems quite out of place here. Mathsci (talk) 07:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Recommending editor for oversight

Thebluesharpdude is a young and enthusiastic editor who doesn't quite seem to "get" many of Misplaced Pages's guidelines and rules. He's created numerous non-notable articles (see his articles list), even after I tried explaining Notability to him (diff). He's uploaded numerous images, claiming to own the copyright when it's obviously not true (partial list). I convinced him to get Wiki-adopted, but his adopter doesn't seem to be mentoring him, aside from giving him Twinkle and designing a user page for him. I've been trying to keep an eye on his edits and have offered advice and tips but it hasn't seemed to help much. The last time I headed down this road, I ended up with Tweety21; I'm really not interested in a sequel so I'm reporting this here in the hopes that someone can offer some close attention. As I said, he's young and enthusiastic and I think he could definitely be an asset to the Project given the right amount of guidance. Precious Roy (talk) 12:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I can keep an eye on him. I'll watchlist his talk page and keep an eye on his contribs.--Phoenix-wiki 15:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'd appreciate any help that anyone can give. Precious Roy (talk) 14:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Dispute re Franco-Mongol Alliance

This is “an open informal complaint over the behaviour of an admin”, which I gather is to be posted here. User:Elonka is currently in the process of “hijacking” the page Franco-Mongol alliance. Although no consensus whatsoever exists for her actions (Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#False claim of consensus), she has deleted about 130k of highly referenced content in order to promote her own point of view version. The main version of the article, which has been developed by numerous editors over 6 months, is now being systematically replaced by a short pov version, deleting about 300 academic references.
She does have the support of a few editors, but overall, she has not managed to obtain a consensus in favour of her replacement of the original article, and she has even resorted to a false claim of consensus to try to have her way (Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#False claim of consensus). This is highly disruptive, and a flaunting of Misplaced Pages’s most basic rules.
I am asking that Misplaced Pages’s rules be respected, i.e. if there is no censensus for a major replacement of an existing article, the status quo should prevail, and that Elonka be reprimended for a disruptive behaviour unworthy of an Administrator. Regards. PHG (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Holy bejesus that's a lot of poorly formatted references. It appears from first glance that she didn't remove references, but notes pointing to individual parts of those references. I'l let her know about this discussion. Grandmasterka 14:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If you are really unhappy about this, you may wish to file a Request for Comment on the admin to see what the community think. D.M.N. (talk) 14:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

(ecx2) She is not abusing the admin tools, although admins are expected to work towards consensus. This is the diff apparently, but it is virtually all red and makes my head explode. I think we can fully protect the article and let everyone discuss until getting consensus. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 14:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflicted 3x) First of all, Elonka didn't use any administrative power on the article as far as I can see, so her being an admin makes no difference. Two, there is no hijacking. Three, this is a content dispute, and from the looks of Talk:Franco-Mongol_alliance#False_claim_of_consensus, it doesn't look like you have many supporters of these kinds of accusations and you also seem to be the one using other editors statements out of context to advance your point of view on the article. I suggest if you actually want to make a formal complaint about someone's behavior you go through Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment rather than make absurd comments of hijackings. — Save_Us † 15:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Unless there is an abuse of admin powers this is a content dispute., Try mediation or an article RFC to promote wider input from the community. Spartaz 15:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have filed a request for arbitration over this dispute. Jehochman 15:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Protected 2 weeks. No admin tools were used by Elonka. Arbitration is not needed yet as this is a content dispute. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Check my request. I think you will see that arbitration is needed. Jehochman 15:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I respect your opinion but would like the parties to try to work this out one more time. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Likewise! I've been watching this dispute for months. It has descended into bad blood and accusations. One more try will not be successful. Rather than waiting for more damage to be done, I have requested a structured environment so the parties can work out their differences. Jehochman 15:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

We'll see what the arbs do. And unless one of the parties is an admin and uses their bit, they have 2 weeks to work it out ;-) — Rlevse • Talk • 16:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• This post is complete and utter bull. To put this a bit more in perspective, PHG is edit warring with 6 other editors in an attempt to keep his preferred version of the article. Absent his interference (especially during his recent 24 hour block over this same disruption), these other editors have been resolving the issues via the talk page -- again, these other 6 editors are not edit warring with each other. The protection is actually completely unnecessary since we've only got one editor trying to own the article (he's been reverted by four of the six other editors over the past 5 days). PHG's insistence that Elonka is the one at fault here completely ignores the fact that not another soul agrees with what he's doing -- Elonka has not edit warred with him, not used her admin bit and has been active in productive discussions on the talk page. Thanks for requesting the arbitration Jehochman. :) Shell 19:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

My views on Elonka's past disputes are reasonably well-known, but in this case I agree with Shell - I've also been watching this one and it seems she's been dealing in the best way possible with people persistently adding fringe theories. I also have to agree with Jehochman that it's gone on so long now that Arbcom is probably needed in order to decide where best to go with this. Orderinchaos 23:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Spam in Girona

In the article Girona an anonymous adds some external links. I think they don't satisfy the requisites of WP:EL as I stated here, I notified the user, and after a long time waiting I received no answer. Then, the links were removed and again the same ip adds them. I think it is too early to add this links in the spam list, but I would apreciate some admin intervention (perhaps the links are apropiate? semi-protect the page? remove the links and notify (again) the user?...). Thanks! --Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 17:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the links could get blacklisted if they are spam? D.M.N. (talk) 17:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I think it's a bit too early to blacklist. I think better first look if you find that these links are not appropiate and in this case advise the ip. If he continues, I'll go to meta (I've seen (s)he also added the links in Spanish wikpedia).--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 17:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like IrishGuy is on top of things as well. In the future, another really good place to report this kind of thing, and get advice and assistance on possible blacklisting, is WT:WPSPAM. — Satori Son 19:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Kumqat1406

This users edits seem primarily to nominating articles for deletion, see the contributions. I'm surprised to see that a "new" users first edit would be nomination an article for deletion. D.M.N. (talk) 19:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Although the AfD nomination of Future of air transport in the United Kingdom is somewhat questionable, it does not appear that this account is being used for disruption. And having an alternative account is not, in and off itself, prohibited. — Satori Son 19:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

On that note, I've just noticed his userpage which contains a wierd message on it. And he's just nominated another article for deletion, again an article which seems notable. D.M.N. (talk) 19:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

And now that the second AfD was speedily kept, Kumqat1406 opened an equally futile DRV discussion. This is looking more and more like a disruptive sock trying to make a POINT. Caknuck (talk) 01:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

How come nobody either notifed them about this or attempted to discuss it on their talk page. I've let them know this discussion is here. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 01:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Because (a) the user page mentioned this already, and (b) because the message on his user page mocks anyone who would try and discuss the issue with him.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I usually don't bother reading user pages and didn't look at theirs. Just noticed from the contributions link in the section title that the talk page was a red link. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 03:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, CambridgeBayWeather. I was aware of the discussion. I maintain I was not being POINTy, I believe that Sisters (TV Series) was a legitamite candidate for deletion and do not believe the Speedy was anything more than retalitation for my nomination of the air transport article. After the fact, I admitted that the air transport nomination may not have been the best as I misread the article. While I accept the DRV consensus that Sisters is notable, although I personally don't agree, I still think it was appropriate to list there due to the fact that no one was able to contribute to the AfD. Kumqat1406 (talk) 02:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

That's problematic, because Sisters (TV series) is notable. The consensus at DRV was not that it was notable; it was that it was so self-evidently notable that having an AfD was a waste of time--that is, it was not a legitimate candidate for deletion. If you fail to understand Misplaced Pages's standards of notability, and continue to nominate such things for deletion, that will be disruptive.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed as a sock of User:Travellingcari per a checkuser so blocked indef, butMisplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Kimo_Williams very strange though. Secret 21:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Posting by Jaymes2

Moved from WP:AN. — Satori Son

User:Jaymes2 (contribs) (talk) has been posting a long speculative piece about the relationship between meteors hitting the earth, Mass-energy equivalence and global warming on Talk:Global warming and other global-warming related pages. The user has been warned several times on the user's talk page, responded to my warning with a post of the same information to my talk page, and continues to re-post the same information (plus impolite comments directed at people who have deleted the speculation) on the global warming talk page. The user has made some edits unrelated to this theory, but it appears that they've all been reverted as unconstructive. I think that this user needs to be blocked, as several attempts at warning the user and introducing them to the purpose of Misplaced Pages have not affected the user's contributions. - Enuja (talk) 19:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, the user has not edited since their final warning about inappropriate use of the talk page (warnings left at 17:29 (UTC) and 19:00 (UTC) on 26 Jan 2008, last edited said talk page on 14:06 (UTC) 26 Jan 2008). It would be reasonable, before any action is taken, to see if he heeds the warning or not. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The user deleted a level 4 warning on 16:40, 26 January 2008 . - Enuja (talk) 20:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the editor should be blocked. There are six warnings on the relevant talk page, excluding any deleted ones. Even if the warnings are not for the same things, it shows a pattern of disruptive behavior that should not be tolerated. Why are we tolerating an editor who has done nothing but waste our time (e.g., this discussion)? I say that we agree to block on the next disruptive edit. The block should be implemented even by an "involved admin" since she will notice the disruption faster (thus, an effective block) and the decision to act was taken here as a group so the admin merely implements the block but does no "decide" to block. Brusegadi (talk) 23:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, this admin agrees; block on the next disruptive edit that has the same content. Blocking is preventative, not punative, so that makes sense. Also vandalism, and that is what it is when it is disruptive - even when made in good faith - means that otherwise "involved" admins can act, similar in the way that vandalism does not count against 3RR. However, if they have otherwise stopped - just let it go. LessHeard vanU (talk) 00:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, another one. I've reverted. I would block, but I'm borderline involved, so if someone else in available, please go ahead. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:30, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked him William M. Connolley (talk) 14:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic slurs by User:WikiBakel

Unacceptalbe incivility, insults, and ethnic slurs by this user ], ], ]. The remainder of his postings consist of trolling. Users have tried to reason with this guy, but to no avail it seems. --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems like he has no intention of becoming a good-faith Wikipedian users. Block indef in my opinion. D.M.N. (talk) 21:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Addition of material from extremist nationalist website to the discussion page of Cham Albanians ] --Tsourkpk (talk) 22:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Future Perfect hit them with RFAR/Macedonia, they won't be around too long if they keep it up. east.718 at 22:43, January 26, 2008

This user continues; personal attack to User talk:Tsourkpk here and to Greek editors here. Furthermore he deleted warning by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise here and instead he replaced it with the same dubious info citing an ultra-nationalistic site. Helladios (talk) 18:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Also in the section Editorial Harassement by Greek nationalistic extremists here!!! Helladios (talk) 18:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Calm it, please, everybody. The stuff from his "illyria" website is pretty poor quality, but that can all be pointed out on talk pages politely and without a lot of fuss. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Dodgy user page - User:Wright93

Think the title says it all really. Any idea whats going on here? Looks likes the source code for some website--Jac16888 (talk) 22:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Its actually very fancy wiki-code that was broken in this edit . Don't know how to fix it though. MBisanz 22:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like someone failed to understand the difference between HTML and Wiki-Markup, used a Web-Tool on the HTML rendering of a Misplaced Pages page, and pasted the result into the edit box. Nothing that needs Admin intervention, although a kind soul could explain this to the user. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That's Microsoft Word code within there, which has all kinds of junky HTML coding, Nate • (chatter) 23:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Could someone actually tell the user? DuncanHill (talk) 23:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we could come to a consensus to ban Microsoft from trying to take over Misplaced Pages :) Orderinchaos 01:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

External links on US presidential election, 2008

• Talk:United States presidential election, 2008#External links to political campaigns

I removed external links to the pages of individual candidates from the general article about the article. But they had been restored back twice ( ) so far within minutes I made my two removal attempts.

Because it is a current event and because we had cases of congress peoples employees editing wikipedia I am bringing this to the general attention of the community. This is less of a complaint in that sense given this isn't the complaints department and instead a noticeboard. Hence this notice.

-- Cat 00:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted to your most recent change, as you are correct. Horologium (talk) 00:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Endorse reversion by Horologium, although the links could be used as referential. the_undertow 09:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh there is an article for every individual campaign of the individual. The article in question isn't about any individuals campaign and instead about the general election process and stuff. They can ofcourse be used in <ref></ref>s for example. -- Cat 14:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for community ban on Heqwm

I request Heqwm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) be blocked indefinitely for repeated personal attacks and disruption.

5 days ago, with no provocation whatsoever, Heqwm made a personal attack against me on my talk page. He awarded me what he called an "anti-barnstar" and accused me of "maliciously writing outright lies about" him. I have not had any interactions with Heqwm for many months, and I have never posted lies about him. I left him a message on his talk page asking him to provide diffs to back up his allegations. He declined to do so. Wizardman warned Heqwm that this was a personal attack. Heqwm repeated his personal attack on his own talk page. I removed the "anti-barnstar" and personal attack from my talk page, but Heqwm re-added it.

Heqwm has been at this mischief for a long time. I warned him about personal attacks more than a year ago. He has been warned by other users as well, and has been placed on a form of community probation. I don't think I have had any interaction with him since then, so I can only assume he is still upset about being put on probation, or about the related mediation case which he filed and then abandoned. In my statement at the arbitration, I provide plenty more diffs to spell out Heqwm's disruption. I certainly have not had any interaction with him for several months.

I believe the above diffs show clearly that Heqwm has made repeated personal attacks without any sort of provocation. His talk page history is littered with controversy and conflict with many other editors on many topics. I ask whether Heqwm has exhausted the community's patience? Johntex\ 00:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

i dunno, mate. he isnt bothereing me a bit. What i recomend doing is to not give him any more recogniton by continuing to talk to him. wait here for an admin to block him. i warn you that you might not get a permanent block like what your looking for here but he'll probably be taken out of action for a while unles he apologizes. with regards to the "anti-barnstar" -- LOL! what you should have done was kept the barnastar but write your own text in the textbox and award it to yourself in recognition of your general awesomeness. good luck, and havea safe flight!!!! Smith Jones (talk) 02:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Uh, what, what do you mean, he isnt bothereing me a bit? Why should Johntex care whether this editor is bothering you or not? Smith Jones, your edits on this page are becoming more and more bizarre. Corvus cornix_talk 04:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I have a feeling that Smith Jones thinks he/she is an admin...going by his/her edits to this forum. Shot info (talk) 08:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked Heqwm for 48 hours for making personal attacks. If the community decides on a longer block or even banning, it would have my full support. Dreadstar † —Preceding comment was added at 06:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gust

Hi, there is a problem with Gust, it has not been correctly moved to Gust Corporation, see . Maybe Gust can be made into a disambiguation page and Gust Corporation deleted so that the old version of Gust can be moved to Gust Corporation, I don't know if there's a better way to proceed. Concerning Gusts, from what I see, it's standard to redirect it to Gust (just like Hills). For the meteorological aspect of gust, I don't know if it deserves an article (with a title like Gust (wind)), maybe a mention in Gust is enough. -- Cenarium (talk) 01:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Fixed before it needed admin intervention, you can move it around as needed now. east.718 at 01:47, January 27, 2008

Thanks, if a similar problem happens, should I post here ? -- Cenarium (talk) 01:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Nope, you're looking for the cut-and-paste move repair holding pen (that's a mouthful). east.718 at 02:05, January 27, 2008

Homeopathy

There is a problem here and at the section just above it; I think things may blow up soon. Admin help would be appreciated. I have tried to calm things down, but to no avail. Anthon01 (talk) 04:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Any further disruption on that long-term battleground will be handled via blocks. east.718 at 04:53, January 27, 2008

Ignored warnings on edits

Advice would be appreciated on this small-scale issue: This editor has a long history of making unreferenced contributions, and has been cautioned a number of times. A recent warning by me led to the following exchanges: and a reply , after which the contributor resumed making similar edits , . Small stuff, but erosive to general quality. In short, the user pays no heed to cautions or warnings. My question is whether the behavior merits further warning. JNW (talk) 05:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've replied on the user talk page. If the user persists in making contributions of this sort, a report for administrator action may be warranted. However, he does appear to be somewhat receptive for advice, so I'd advise continued discussion for now. Sandstein (talk) 07:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Category "dispute"

someone threatens to block me for adding an in my view non-controversial, referenced category to the Winona Ryder article (my edit here). See (Ryder talk page discussion and my talk page). I feel my edit is getting reverted without base yet the reverter accuses me of edit-warring. Could someone briefly have a look thanks. 87.126.142.54 (talk) 23:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd recommend reading the three-revert rule. Any further edits by you today to the article to reinsert that information will result in a block. Please discuss such changes on the talk page. Nakon 07:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Great, another standard reply. Well I have- discussed and sourced my edit on the talk page. But the reverting editors are the ones who are reverting my edit without discussing, yet they accuse me of edit warring. 87.126.142.54 (talk) 07:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've left a note at User talk:Ward3001 requesting his participation on the article talk page. Hopefully this can be cleared up quickly. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 07:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate it. 87.126.142.54 (talk) 07:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I added something on the Talk page. Although I disagree with adding the category, my biggest objection was that 87.126.142.54 (talk · contribs) was edit warring and violating 3RR without allowing adequate discussion. He posted a comment on the Talk page in response to my request for discussion and four minutes later began edit warring, claiming that he did not need consensus. All of this can be seen in his edit history. And one more point. 87.126.142.54 (talk · contribs) claims to have sourced his edits. The source does not state that she is Russian-American or that she identifies herself as Russian-American. Ward3001 (talk) 16:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Radiohumor

_{relisted by nat.utoronto at 08:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)}
Someone might want to keep an eye on Radiohumor (talk · contribs · page moves · block user · block log) as recent contributions have been quite uncivil, and not exactly constructive. nat.utoronto 07:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

He is watched, and I assume that the editor just needs some acclimation to the wiki. He has 2 warnings, and at this point, I don't see further action as necessary. the_undertow 09:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Protected title Flash Flash Revolution

Requesting protection under the new system, including an explanation of why it was salted. - Chardish (talk) 08:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't get what you are trying to request as the page has already been protected. nat.utoronto 08:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec) The page was protected from creation due to endless recreations after a consensus concluded it should be deleted (Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2006 December 15). Someguy1221 (talk) 09:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Nikkul on Poverty in India

I found no way other than coming here. User:Nikkul is continuously adding an image of homes in rural India with a caption "Low income homes in rural India". His edits are going too much problematic.

• First, in rural India, homes like these are quite common, and in rural India, per capita income is relatively low than in urban India. An image in a article for poverty should depict the subject very well. But farmer's homes are not well representative of Poverty.

This user is also removing the begger image wikilawyering this image is WP:UNDUE. This is blatant wikilawyering and excuse. In India, many poor homeless beggers live like this, and there is no wikipedia rule that an image of a begger cannot be included in an article. He is continuously reverting my edits, no intention in engaging in a fruitful argument in constructive manner. Dispute resolution is not posiible with this editor. I think an experienced editor or administrator should look into the matter. I am getting tired with this user's disruptive edits. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

From memory I seem to believe that there is no Misplaced Pages rule that determines that an image of a Manatee cannot be used in article space, either... Of course, context is everything. "Low income housing" (besides being a recent Western concept) may not necessarily indicate that poverty (or "trans or sub subsistence income") exists in an area - although economic weakness may make it more likely should incomes be reduced even by a small margin. Also, as suggested, a traditional low cost building does not mean that the locality is economically depressed, it may simply mean that semi permanent dwellings are not considered as essential as to another culture.

Begging, outside of religious/cultural practice in the sub-continent, is an obvious sign of poverty, however. It is indicative of a lack of employment opportunities (if the begger is otherwise fit) and also of a welfare provision where the begger is not capable of work which are strong indicators of poverty.

I will comment on Nikkul's talkpage, noting this discussion. LessHeard vanU (talk) 10:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Why is dispute resolution not possible? I see no recent edits from you to either the aritcle talk page or to Nikkul's talk page. When you find yourself arguing against a policy, ANI is usually not the first place to try. The inability to resolve disputes with a particular user is generally established by precedence. Someguy1221 (talk) 10:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I suppose edit warring, for that is what it appears to be, is a matter for admin input? Anyway, I have left a message at the users talkpage. Hopefully both parties can now move forward. LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm just saying, ANI isn't the first step in dispute resolution, and one shouldn't assume it won't work before one has tried. But yes, it will hopefully take care of itself now :-) Someguy1221 (talk) 11:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The reason this user is giving in removing the begger image is "all beggars do not have messed up legs, this image is undue". This is ridiculas argument and apllying WP:UNDUE here is blatant wikilawyering. Many beggers have no eyes, many beggers cannot see, many beggers have no arms, amny beggers cannot walk steadily. This is the reality, the truth, it is not right to conceal it. On the other hand many beggers are physically fit. So how to judge a begger image? This begger image is right, this begger image in not right? Many beggers, as I have told earlier, forced in this profession due to utter lack of livelihood, and live more worse condition than depicted here. So placing this image is completely appropriate, using the above argumant this user is applying is ridiculas and certainly POV pushing. This user's only job in wikipedia is bigging up the India articles by placing nice touristy pictures and removing "negative material" which he is doing here.

• This user is mixing "low income" with "poverty". "Poverty" is defined as "condition of lacking full economic access to fundamental human needs such as food, shelter and safe drinking water". Low income houses, the farmer's houses are not representative for what "poverty" stands. In wikipedia, we cannot place an image of a farmer, or a farmer's house when depicting poverty. I think in an article, which completely describing poverty, only those images should be given which are well-indicative to the subject. And by that, the begger image is terribly appropriate in the article. I hope after LessHeard vanU's message on this user's talk page, this user will not disrupt the article again. But if he continue his disruptive edits, I may need help from other editors. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 11:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Nikkul, while an excellent source of images, proves problematic in the extreme about their use. For those wondering why DR isn't tried, I suggest a look at the Talk:India archives. Relata refero (talk) 13:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

First,I would like to say that Otolemur crassicaudatus did not ask me to discuss this on the talk page. He also did not leave me a note telling me that this discussion was going on. This is another attempt by him to block me. He has tried to delete my userpage because I said "Being an American is priceless"

• User Otolemur crassicaudatus keeps deleting my contributions without giving a good reason as to why. Any edit that i have made to this page or another is always reverted by him. This is getting tiring for me and is hindering my efforts on Wiki.
• Poverty in India is mostly rural. Most people who live under the poverty line live in rural places. No other picture on the povetry in India page shows rural poverty which dominates over urban poverty. The picture of homes represents poverty in rural India, because these homes are where poor farmers live. I have travelled in poor parts of India and I know firsthand that these homes house people under the poverty line. Not having an image of rural poverty is wp:undue since all the images show urban poverty which is only a fraction of poverty in India.

• I have explained this many times to Otolemur crassicaudatus but he still keeps removing my image with an excuse that "no place is mentioned"

• The beggar in Bodhgaya image does not accurately depict poor people in India because they do not look like this. This man is an exception To say that this man represents all poor people in India is very wrong. A small minority of Indias poor are disabled. Most work long hours fishing, farming or as construction workers or beggars. This picture shows a man whose legs have been broken. Unless a majority of indias poor have legs like this, the image is irrelevant and undue to the poverty in india page.

• This is just another attempt by Otolemur crassicaudatus to make India look bad. This user bears a strong hatred towards India and would like to deride the country as much as he can. Before, he has tried inserting an image of beggars washing their clothes in a puddle in the economy section of the India article which is featured. He still kept doing this even when I told him that the image represents the poorest of the poor in India and that every country has poor people, but most do not show an image of the dirt poor on their economy sections.

• Because the beggar in Bodhgaya image doesnot show the truth of Indias poor, andbecause user:otolemur insists on having a beggar image,i haveuploaded Image:India poor.jpg which is more representative of beggars in India rather than a man with broken legs

• Also, when I say low income housing, i do not mean housing for the lower class. I should have made it clear that these homes are of poor farmers who live below the poverty line. Hence, the image is appropriate for the page. It also shows rural poverty which is significantly greater than urban poverty

Nikkul (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Many beggers have various disabilities. It is a blatant excuse by a POV editor.
• Any mention of "negative aspect" of India is attempt to make India bad by this user.
• The farmer image is not indicative to poverty. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 21:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• This is a content dispute. Please take it to the article or your own talkpages, or pursue Dispute Resolution. I would suggest that the rhetoric is toned down also, assuming bad faith does not help the encyclopedia. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I actually think Nikkul has a reasonable point here, to be honest. It seems that WP:UNDUE is being violated by use of an unrepresentative or overly polarising image in the context in which it is being used (the image could be used in several other contexts without any problems). I suggest that the users try to resolve their problems at the article talk page and assume good faith - both editors do wish to improve the article, that's obvious by the above, but just have starkly different ideas about how to do it. Orderinchaos 22:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Nikkul's image is much more relevant than a handpicked photo of a beggar. Beggars in India need not be poor, while slums are the home of the poor. OC's edits indicate a pattern of Indophobia that Nikkul has brought to light.Bakaman 00:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

And similarly low-income housing is sometimes misused (by putting it on rent by those who supposedly need it). The fact is that vast majority of beggars are poor. Also, you allegations of Indophobia, as a way to solve disputes, are a violation of WP:CIVIL.Bless sins (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There is nothing incivil about calling a spade a spade. I pointed out that his edits, indicate a pattern of Indophobia. Incidentally, wikistalking is a clear violation of policy, unlike spurious allegations of incivility. Nikkul's image is much more germane to the situation, and OC's forum-shopping does little but to exhaust the time and patience of more productive editors.Bakaman 01:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I found the beggar's image on the Begging article. I removed it since there already was a representative for India. Perhaps this is related to this incident--Lenticel 01:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism of WP:FAIL

After a discussion about Misplaced Pages in #Misplaced Pages-en on IRC, User:Gurch decided to start removing mass amounts of content from WP:FAIL. He disagrees with the opinions of the essay and is upset by it, which was why he originally wrote WP:MNF. In our discussion on IRC, he asked if he could block me for being "an asshole," and was later warned for making that statement. After our discussion was over, he decided to start blanking material from WP:FAIL, by reverting to a far older revision.

I asked him to self-revert because I am not going to bother edit-warring with him. He refused. When I spoke to him about it in IRC, his first response as "LOL," and it was pretty clear that he was acting in bad-faith. To demonstrate bad-faith, I can share the IRC log, although not on Misplaced Pages, per Undertow's warning here.

Based on this, I also request that his "rollerbacker" rights be taken away for obvious reasons. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 12:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Zenwhat, it is not vandalism, it is a content dispute of sorts. You should not assume vandalism from an established editor of the community (especially when the majority of the content he removed was written by you). However, Gurch is misusing rollback, as rollback is only intended for vandalism, extremely non-productive edits and your own edits if you made a mistake. Not only is Gurch apparently misusing rollback there in a content dispute, he is using his rollback rights to revert messages sent to his user talk page he doesn't like. . — Save_Us † 12:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gurch should also not of marked the edit as "Minor". As it is a content dispute, it should be discussed on the talkpage. Also, his rollback rights should be removed if he is abusing it. D.M.N. (talk) 13:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Then we should remove it from the ton of admins (including myself) who use rollback for non-vandalism. Majorly (talk) 13:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we should remove the bit from users who abuse their privileges. It's not exactly policy, but rollback isn't intended for content disputes and it is implied when the rollback function is used that the revision is something non-controversial to revert. User talk page reverts are borderline, pending what the message was. Rollback for content disputes on the other hand is pure abuse as that is not what rollback was meant for at all. — Save_Us † 13:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: User:Gurch also has an alternate account with rollback rights, User:Gurchzilla. — Save_Us † 13:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Abusing rollback reinserting vandalism/non-productive edits

Apprently Gurch has read this thread about his rollback edits being questionable and decided to revert any use of his rollback to the previous version, which is now inserting vandalism and blanking back into articles. I urge someone to remove rollback from Gurch and Gurchzilla. — Save_Us † 14:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

He still has the rights. See here and here. He seems to have stopped and left. Technically the rollbacker right should be removed, but my view is that if he returns and does useful anti-vandalism work, then the tool will be useful for him. So I'm not going to remove them. I suggest everyone go and learn how to use Misplaced Pages:Huggle instead. Carcharoth (talk) 21:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

New situation - help needed

Gurch has tagged all of his user subpages for deletion, including User:Gurch/Huggle, which has a lot of incoming links and seems to be tied in to the anti-vandalism scene (which I don't know much about). I'm reluctant to delete these pages even though they sort of do meet the user-request speedy deletion criteria. Since they're all still tagged, some input is needed here. --W.marsh 14:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gurch looks like he has left Misplaced Pages. D.M.N. (talk) 14:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, they meet the speedy criteria, but I have the same concerns as you. I'm punting this one to someone with more experience with Gurch... maybe someone who knows him can find out if this is a storm that's going to blow over (leave them) or it seems for real (delete them)? - Philippe | Talk 14:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've moved some pages into the Misplaced Pages: space. The whitelist page may cause problems if it was anywhere else though. Majorly (talk) 14:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gurch has left Misplaced Pages before, then came back. Corvus cornix_talk 21:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Can someone undelete User:Gurch/Huggle/Icons and move it to Misplaced Pages:Huggle/Icons. Can someone do that for his other subpages under the Huggle banner? D.M.N. (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, done. Majorly (talk) 14:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice work, Majorly. You are much less lazy than me. --W.marsh 15:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Somethings wrong. User:Gurch/Huggle/Whitelist was moved into the Misplaced Pages space at Misplaced Pages:Huggle/Whitelist. As a result, User:Gurch/Huggle/Whitelist , served as a redirect, but people are editing it. D.M.N. (talk) 18:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've fully protected User:Gurch/Huggle/Whitelist as a redirect. Nakon 19:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Page ownership? and accusations?

I ran into a number of articles where after some recent edits a linkfarm was created (the latest additions contain several of the same links), some pages now contain 15 external links. After trying to clean the articles in question (which was also attempted by other editors), I was being accused of being a sockpuppet of another user who opposed certain edits (diff) and bad faith was assumed on those who performed those edits (see e.g. diff). To me it feels a bit like if the editors in question (User:KKonstantin, User:Ostap R and User:Galassi) try to own the articles. The articles involved:

• Ukrainians (15 EL) (which maybe also should be moved as well to Ukrainian (ethnic group) per WP:MOS?) ??
• Balachka (14)
• Ukrainians in Russia (clean)
• Ukrainians in Kuban (4)
• Ukrainian diaspora (7, mostly spelled in Russian)
• Ukrainian language (12; some in reference section as well (11))

I am stepping away from the discussion (well, tried that earlier), to cool down (well, not that heated anyway ..) from the accusations, name calling and to prevent edit warring (but maybe I am just taking it too serious). Maybe someone more specialised in these articles can have a look at the edits and articles, and try some positive discussion? --Dirk Beetstra 16:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC) (sorry, wrong editor named in original post, changed. --Dirk Beetstra 16:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC))

Could you name specifically what links are being re-posted across several articles and possibly diffs of users who added them? If they're slightly different, but they're just adding lots of links, that's not linkfarming if each link is noteworthy and worth keeping. I did a quick search and found examples:

Islam (16 EL) Encyclopedia (13 EL) Science (14 EL)

As for Ukranians, yes, it should probably be moved. "Ukranians" sounds tacky, but unfortunately when it comes to ethnic groups, there doesn't seem to be a consistent MoS. I'd recommend moving it to "Ukranian people."

• Kurdish people
• American people
• Persian people
• Hungarian people

• Britons
• Russians
• Arabs
• Jew

etc..

☯  Zenwhat (talk) 16:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User:KKonstantin is the one who added them (same/very similar links to the 6 pages), he and the others defend. Special:Contributions/KKonstantin shows the respective edits (e.g. this set of diffs (ignore the infobox change, that was by another editor)). I reverted those link-additions as they create a linkfarm, but found the mentioned resistance and response. And I know there are other pages that have quite some external links, but that does not make it OK, the same may be true for the other pages, I would argue that also in those cases it is more than 'a few'. --Dirk Beetstra 16:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Chandlerjoeyross

Article creation issues: from the user's contribs, his article creation SOP is based on 1) finding a published obit, creating the article from the obit, and then claiming notability through "somebody else cared that you died", or 2) people who really aren't notable see User:Chandlerjoeyross/Articles_I've_Created.

Many of the articles he has created are stubs and also copyvio from whatever source he used, and since no one really heard of these people before their obits, there's very little published information - he doesn't even have full names for people, such as the aforementioned Thoreau, for example. Could someone speak to him regarding the intent of policies? I see all sorts of issues here. MSJapan (talk) 16:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Most of them are non-notable. I think you guys might want to take a look at the amount of warnings here. D.M.N. (talk) 16:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the problem here? Obituaries are perfectly valid sources to use. Catchpole (talk) 19:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The notability of the articles has and will be sorted out with prods, afds, and speedies. Perhaps 1/3 of these articles were deleted, the others kept. That's not a great record but it's not a behavior problem requiring administrative intervention, is it? Either he'll get tired of having his articles deleted and learn to be more cautious, or he won't, but as long as he's working in good faith I just don't see the problem either. Copyvio is a more serious issue but I couldn't really tell if this is a persistent problem, or he simply had to learn. Notices from the image patrol bots are usually technical issues, not real copyvios. If he keeps doing it long term despite all the repeated warnings, that could be an issue. Wikidemo (talk) 20:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's well established that obits only show notability when used from sources that use a high degree of selectivity as well as editorial control, such as The Times and the NYT. They can otherwise only be a source of non-controversial detail. But a good number of his articles describe what are clearly people with notable accomplishments. He should do better sourcing, but he is not being disruptive. DGG (talk) 23:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Editorial Harassement by Greek nationalistic extremists

In the next links it is wise to look who started to be impolite

],

I don't like to be called "Dude"

],

I don't like to be called wikibabel wich refers to the tower of Babel. My name is wikibakel

I don't like trhat someone is telling me that i act like a troll (trolling)

].

Again the troll story

Editors Helladios and Tsourkpk act like they are god. No other opinion than theirs is allowed. They don't discuss with arguments they just censure. They accuse without reason the site Illyrians.org to be extremist nationalistic. This harassement has to be looked into by NON-greek admins. An article can only grow when the greek accept that there opinion is not the only one

Helladios accuses me of deleting a warning. This warning was on my one talk page. After reading i deleted this because i have enough braincapacity to remeber those messages. Furthermore it doesn't state anywhere that i have to keep every message on my talk page. Next to this i put the text that i wrote on my own talk page. What is helladios doing on my page? Is he on a personal vendetta? It seems so. Sorry I'm not impressed nor afraid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiBakel (talk • contribs) 19:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC) WikiBakel (talk) 18:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

You are not obliged to keep the warning there, that much is true. On the other hand, it doesn't look too good for you if you first complain of other people misspelling your username, and then for you to persistently misspell that of the other guy. Come on, you are too intelligent for such games. The guy is called "Helladios". Now, come down from that glass dome, please. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I directly changed Heliastos in Helladios. This was a true mistakeWikiBakel (talk) 19:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC) Your statement however doesn't change their censorship nor their accusations.Is that still allowed? WikiBakel (talk) 19:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

your accusations of censorship aside, your attitude is far afield of civility, and should be put in check. Dick size comments is the best you can do to discuss problems with other editors? ThuranX (talk) 19:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

What the hell means "Dick size comments is the best you can do to discuss problems with other editors?" WikiBakel (talk) 20:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

New editor engaging in POV Personal attacks, etc.

A comparatively new user, whose first edit was December 23, as per here, seems to be less than well informed about matters of policy. He has however regularly impugned the character of others, up to and including regularly calling a well-established editor a "hypocrite" and engaging in other repeated insults, as per the Talk:Nontrinitarianism page. He has also raised completely unjustified accusations against that editor, as per that same page. He has also created a subpage, Talk:Nontrinitarianism/References, in which he specifically requests that no one edit the page, in clear violation of WP:OWN, and so far as I can tell is trying to use the page as a way to circumvent policy and make several completely unsourced statements, again in appearing to further his own personal beliefs. He has also gone so far as to call others "desperate Trinitarians" here, and referring to a "schizophrenic trinity god" as per here. He also seems to think that perhaps anyone who espouses a trinitarian view of Christianity is somehow in a conspiracy to "hide the truth" or whatever, and seems to include me in that number. He has most recently repeated calling another party a "hypocrite" on the basis of factually inaccurate information, as per the Talk:Nontrinitarianism#Early Christian section. I am at a loss as to how to proceed with this individual. Please advise. John Carter (talk) 19:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Seeing as talking to the user hasn't done much good; I suggest blocking the editor for a week. D.M.N. (talk) 19:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

As a somewhat involved party, I do not think that I am in a position to do so. John Carter (talk) 19:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment. The editor concerned has posted on Jimbo's talkpage here in relation to this matter. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Would I be justified in thinking we might wait for him to decide what if anything he wants to do about this matter before proceeding any further? John Carter (talk) 22:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I doubt if Jimbo is going to comment over such a matter. I posted the comment just to let other third parties be aware that the differing view has already been expressed outside of the article space. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that the other party in question is continuing his at-best poorly-based accusations on the Talk:Nontrinitarianism page. However, as indicated before, I do not think that I, having tried to work with the editor in question, and now also being subject to his insults and attacks, am in a position to do anything. John Carter (talk) 23:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It should also be noted that the editor in question has now posted a religion/philosophy RfC on the talk page above, in which he explicitly states, in a way which I believe completely and utterly fails to assume good faith, and I quote, "I suspect User talk:John Carter is in the background rallying more christian biased pet-editors and co-consipiritor Administrators to his defence." As a clearly involved party, I now believe that I would be disqualified from taking any action in this matter. However, I also believe that the party's behavior is becoming increasingly erratic. John Carter (talk) 23:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I really, really do try and stay out of religious themed content/editing disputes, but I would suggest that an RfC may be an appropriate venue to get this sorted out. Never mind the ludicrous claims, except where it demonstrates a lack of AGF or impedes resolution, and use it to put your arguments across to a wider audience. It is a pity that no-one here (including me) felt that they could contribute in attempting to resolve this matter. Hopefully the RfC will address that need. LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gee, I can't imagine why people would like to avoid arguments like this one whenever possible. ;) No problems, let's hope the RfC comes forward with some information. I honestly don't know if the later nontrinitarians have added anything substantive to the discussion, and it would be useful to find out if they have. John Carter (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Please block PipepBot as out-of-control bot

Originally posted on Misplaced Pages:Bot owners' noticeboard, I'm moving it here since it might need a quick action : pywikipedia is not supposed to work that badly. NicDumZ ~ 19:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

PipepBot (talk•contribs) is broken and is removing lots of valid interlanguage links, e.g. (there are many more examples). It is also moving existing interlanguage links around (out of alphabetic order) for no good reason, e.g. . This is causing disruption. The bot owner has been notified of these concerns , but I am suggesting a temporary block to prevent the bot causing further unnecessary disruption. - Neparis (talk) 19:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked the bot for the time being. Lara❤Love 19:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, - Neparis (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The bot is still operating across other wikis, e.g. fr.wiki, de.wiki, it.wiki (probably more wikis too). It is removing valid interlanguage links there too. I presume it cannot be blocked by admins on en-wiki. Is there a central cross-wiki noticeboard for reporting a bot that is misbehaving across multiple wikis? (rather than making multiple reports to different wikis) - Neparis (talk) 19:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Requests for permissions on Meta, section Removal of access, probably, or contact a Steward. x42bn6 Talk Mess 20:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I brought the matter to the French AN ... NicDumZ ~ 21:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I posted a request for steward assistance on the bot status page on . - Neparis (talk) 22:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, this bot is not out of control. The user is fixing interwiki conflicts. Please unblock this bot. Nothing wrong with these edits:

• - interwiki mess Town with City
• - interwiki mess Dioxin and Polychlorinated dibenzodioxins
• - interwiki mess Particulate and Aerosol
• - interwiki mess Calypso (RFID) and Navigo pass
• - dont know
• - interwiki mess de:Rapperswil SG and de:Rapperswil-Jona
• - interwiki mess Donatyre and Avenches
• - interwiki mess Schwyz and Canton of Schwyz
• interwiki mess St. Antönien and St. Antönien Ascharina
• - interwiki mess Stadtbahn Glattal and Glattalbahn

Looks like Neparis owes someone an apology - multichill (talk) 23:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

well, as far as I know, fr:Ville is the translation of City, even if it is also the meaning of Town. Interwiki.py usually don't remove "controversial" interwikis like these, unless the -force option is activated. It should not. NicDumZ ~ 23:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

City/town is a mess. Probably unfixable in the current interwiki system. But you're wrong about the -force option. I happen to run an interwiki bot myself and i never use the -force option. I do however fix interwiki conflicts every once in a while. This means i pick a page and run the bot without the -autonomous option (and without -force option). Bot asks me a lot of questions and in the end adds and removes a lot of links. Looks like Pipet did the same. multichill (talk) 23:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Next on Misplaced Pages:Bot owners' noticeboard ...This page is too big :) NicDumZ ~ 23:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC).

Well, the ones that really caught my eye were the interlanguage link removals for dioxin. I just reviewed them again and at least some of them still look like they might be considered at least somewhat controversial link removals. I could be wrong about it, but some wikis (e.g. Danish) seem to me to have an article on dioxin, but not yet an article on polychlorinated dioxins, which is a specific type of dioxin. In such a case, having interlanguage links to dioxin, as the general term, seems quite useful to me. User:Blech from de-wiki has told the bot owner that most of the interwiki links that the bot removed were correct and that he has reverted the bot. I have not checked any of the other examples in detail, but I had a quick look at one of them — the aerosol link removals. Particulates are a cause of aerosols, and, though I may well be wrong about it, some wikis (e.g. French) seem to have an article on the latter but not the former, so, in such a case, having the interlanguage links, e.g. to fr:Aérosol, seems quite useful to me. I am acting in good faith here, and if I have made a mistake I will certainly say sorry to the bot owner. Please let me know your thoughts — I can take a wikitrout or two. - Neparis (talk) 00:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Persistant harassment & vandalism

Ever since User:RYNORT (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was banned for gross incivility, I've been the victim of substantial harassment and vandalism. A few of the highlights:

• Talkpage - Rynort claims ownership of vanadlism
• Userpage vandalism 1
• Userpage vandalism 2
• Userpage vandalism 3
• Talkpage vandalism 1
• Talkpage vandalism 2
• Talkpage vandalism 3
• Talkpage vandalism 4
• Talkpage vandalism 5
• Talkpage vandalism 6 (rynort)
• Talkpage vandalism 7
• Talkpage troll 1
• Talkpage troll 2

The violations are fairly severe (especially the anti-semitism) and make my Misplaced Pages experience unpleasant, especially given my history with the project. Any help would be appreciated. I also know that Croctotheface (talk · contribs) has also been victim of some of the harassment as well. Thanks! /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 19:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I checked your talkpage history and noted very few ip's involved, so I have sprotected for 7 days. If you want the sprotect lifted or reduced then let me (or another sysop) know. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Unblock

New IP's for unblocking are posted at User:Mercury/UnblockNonTor. Please review them and consider unblocking these. Testing reveals they are no longer proxy. Additionally, no posts to this section means it will archive in 24h keeping ANI clear. Regards, Mercury (talk) 19:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

All unblocked where applicable. east.718 at 21:03, January 27, 2008

MZMcBride blanking my comment

In this diff MZMcBride (talk · contribs), an admin, is blanking part of a comment I made. As you can see, I made a factual statement that the user was in an IRC channel. MZMcBride even confirms it's true, but still claims it is defamatory, and that he can blank it due to WP:BLP. I would like the comment restored, as it seems absurd to claim that BLP prevents me from making a simple declarative (and true) statement in a debate. I do not want to edit war over it though. We shouldn't be able to just remove comments we don't like... MZMcBridge should respond to my statement and what he thinks it implies, then people might well think there's nothing to my statement. --W.marsh 20:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The statement cast me in a negative light, had no bearing on the DRV, was unsourced, and entirely irrelevant. Are we to start listing all deleting admins who are part of #wikipedia-en-admins at the beginning of every DRV? Seems rather silly. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Your whole comment there is unsourced... that's just an absurd standard to apply to discussion comments people make, especially if you don't even deny my statement is true. At any rate, people can decide what my statement was worth. If it was irrelevant, it will have no effect. --W.marsh 20:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

To the contrary, in my opinion. There seems to be widespread skepticism of the admins' channel; it's already been brought up in that specific DRV when an admin commented, "I'm all for A7-ing #wikipedia-en-admins though."

Regardless, I simply refuse to bring more drama to Misplaced Pages. I'll reverse my action and put the article up for AfD. How does that sound? --MZMcBride (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It sounds like what I said several hours ago was the inevitable result. And as I indicated then, I'd be fine with such a decision. --W.marsh 20:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Done and done. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've got two trouts here, and I'm not afraid to use them. This is a silly conflict with people that should know better. How about both of you step away, ignore that article and that DRV from now on and let other editors deal with this particular one?(never mind) henrik•talk 20:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User Donchev -- 3RR, single purpose account and accusations of racism

• Donchev (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has managed in his short history on WP to infringe 3RR and to accuse people of racism. I would have reported him for 3RR infringement, but this is a more serious case I think. Sorry if I put this in a wrong place. -- AdrianTM (talk) 20:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Notice of RFC

As this RfC has as its purpose a community ban, I feel it best to direct ye to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Whig 3

It involves Whig (talk · contribs)

Adam Cuerden 21:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I thought it involved the Whigs. Thanks for the clarification! El_C 21:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, had to get template {{user}} in somehow =P Adam Cuerden 22:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Donmardon (talk · contribs · count) and personal attacks

Donmardon is making personal attacks on Talk:List of SpongeBob SquarePants episodes. The attacks will likely get worse and start being directed at me specifically rather than everyone. If an admin needs something to do, could you please keep an eye on him? Thanks. NF24 21:30, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Also over at Talk:Worms: A Space Oddity . They clearly aren't here to contribute constructively. NF24 21:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I will warn him. Smith Jones (talk)`

I'm sure that will be taken on board appropriately. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 21:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

First edit , and indeed subsequent ones, indicate an account created by someone already experienced here that our Assume blind faith to the point of putting your head in the sand policy means we will now ignore until they are inevitably blocked anyway, as their disruption increases. Hi Ho. No edits recently so not a lot more to do for the time being Pedro :  Chat  21:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Why is Smith Jones getting so involved with sorting out disputes here? He's a new user, who currently has a warning for incivility on his own talk page. Adam Cuerden 22:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

He's not a newbie user. I checked his contributions and stopped at a year. And he has just as much right to try and help as anyone else. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 22:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep an eye on Donmardon (talk · contribs · count), please. I reverted their removal of a redirect and explained the problem to them. Jehochman 22:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Abuse and Vandalism by IP: 71.110.255.19

The above IP has placed an abusive and rather vulgar statement on my user talk page. It was promptly removed but you can view this by looking at the page's history. Also, the same user put a degrading and insulting comment on his talk page in response to my request / warning of writing abusive things on article discussion pages. Based on the spelling errors and abrasive language style, I believe without doubt that this IP is indeed banned user Paul Barresi. He has also put several different times comments on the Paul Barresi article discussion page. One comment is still there. Several others have been blanked by other editors. I am requesting that this IP be banned and that user Paul Barresi's current ban be extended. I also request that discussion page for article Paul Barresi be sem-protcted to avoid further abusive comments. Thank you. Fuzzyred (talk) 22:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked the IP for 31 hours but as I don't know Paul Barresi's editing style I'm not happy wextending the block without some evidence. Perhaps another admin whi is more familiar with the situation might do the honours? Theresa Knott | The otter sank 22:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Question

Hello. I just deleted an article for being vandalism and having personal information in it. However, as the personal information is in the title, what should be done about it? Thank you. Keilana| 23:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:RFO. Mercury (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I didn't think oversight removed it from the logs, does it? Keilana| 23:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Oversighted. FT2  23:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Except now it's present in every revision of this noticeboard page until someone thinks to remove it... – Gurch 23:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you FT2 and Gurch. Could someone oversight the revisions of the noticeboard? Thanks, Keilana| 23:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

(e/c)I've asked on #wikimedia-tech about removing it from the log, there isn't much concern since the title itself is not attached to any name or other info and the number seems to be a spam number based on a Google search. Mr.Z-man 23:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I think whatever maneuver was just done here temporarily crashed the site, or it was something else. One or the other for sure. Jehochman 23:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, something definitely did crash it. Malinaccier (talk) 23:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I had one of those too, but the wheels fell off. Orderinchaos 00:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Re User:Billy Murray

BillyMurray (talk · contribs) This user keeps removing sourced stuff from Tom Cruise, using, for example edit summaries such as "there's nothing to discuss, articles are not a dumping ground for every random sensational remark about a celebrity". He has already been invited by User:Luna Santin and myself to discuss this on the article's talk page, but insists on acting without consensus. As you might guess, I'm pretty stressed out after this past week, and I'm tired of reverting him, so I'd be glad if someone else would advise this editor. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Already in hand --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Danny Daniel

This user has been blocked for multiple cases of sock-puppetry. This is a long-term issue with the user. He (gender assumption based on the names) periodically pops up with new socks. I'm not sure how many admins are familiar with his cases. An archived case by me is at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Danny Daniel, another editor opened a second case at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Danny Daniel (2nd nomination), and a third editor kept a trail of information at User:Squirepants101/Danny Daniel. Some of these are outdated with most current information, it's a little wearisome keeping up.

Today I noticed List of The AnimeLand characters (and previously deleted at least once, see the log), created by an SSP under the same motives as listed. I've tagged it for speedy under G5 (banned user), but it occurs to me that the editor has not been formally banned. He's just been chased down and his socks have been repeatedly blocked. It gets a little tiresome, and I think I realize there is not much that can really be done, other than vigilance, but that is the point of my posting: is there anything that can be done? Yngvarr 00:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Civility issue: mock-impersonation

EliasAlucard (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is vigorously persuing his Assyrianist agenda. He now turned to mock-impersonating opponents. I believe that this 'translation' on Talk:Syriacs should be regarded as intolerable incivility. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 00:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it's not me pursuing an Assyrianist agenda. What's going on here is that we have a serious case of sockvandals running around and putting in dubious sources in the articles, and they are pursuing a religious agenda without any valid sources. They use examples such as Megalommatis, and so on. I will take this to arbitration, because I've had enough of trying to keep these articles on a serious encyclopaedic level. Oh and Pieter Kuiper here above needs to get a warning for WP:STALK, by the way. As for Benne, I was just describing what his agenda is here on Misplaced Pages. You can check up his edit history if you don't believe me, none of it is productive or contributing anything whatsoever to Misplaced Pages. All he has been engaged in is revert wars, prety much. That is pretty much his entire edit history summarised. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 00:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

i ahve listed the relevent policies on both of your talk pages. please read them and ry harder to cfollow them in the futurue. Smith Jones (talk) 01:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Image:TeriBauer.jpg

Please delete as the image is a copyvio, and fair use rational deadline has expired.--Lucy-marie (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Done --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 00:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal attacks and threats of off-wiki "investigation"

This declaration of intent by User:Pol64 to "investigate" editors off-wiki strikes me as an attempt to intimidate. This isn't the first time this editor has used language indicitive of being on a mission, and routinely fails to assume good faith while labelling and threatening other editors as a part of that crusade.. Regardless of the goal, these types of labelling and threats seem to violate several Wikipolicies. As per a previous discussion about this editor on this board, it should be raised here again. Pairadox (talk) 01:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The problem is VigilancePrime, , a good mate of Pairadox, who calls admins vandals, attacks good users and nobody does anything. Dioes wikipedia want to support these pedophole activists? Or not? I nhave done nothing than contradicts policy and if Pairadox, a good mate of Vigilance, wishes to claim otherwise there is rfc for that. I am a free persona nd off wikipedia nobody can stop me pursuing my legal path, i am an ex copper and if I see suspicious activity I do somethiong about it and pedophilia is against the lawPol64 (talk) 01:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I have asked on my talk page, but I guess I can ask here too. I have yet to understand where these comments about pedophilia come from? Incidentally, a typo meant the above userlink didnt work, so it is here: VigilancePrime (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Hope you don't mind me correcting your link, Pol. SGGH 01:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

i understadn both of your concerns but wikiepdia is not the place to pursue a personal or legal crusades. please do not issue legal threats; it is a waste of time and a possible violation of WP:AGF, and it's frowned up on in wikipedia. if you really think that another user is a danger to other people you should not try to handle it on wikipedia because there is really nothing the admins here can do to stop someone. The policies that you are violating are WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF, as well as WP:LEGAL. 01:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The disgusting comments by Pol64 have no place here, and should either be retracted, or the User blocked. Corvus cornix_talk 01:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

+1 Corvus cornix. (But this never seems to happen.) VigilancePrime (talk) 01:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not here to score points, so please don't do that. Corvus cornix_talk 01:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Legal threats or declarations are not allowed on Misplaced Pages, pure and simple. Unless Pol64 retracts her intention to investigate other editors, there's ample justification and precedent in WikiHistory for a block. ~ Homologeo (talk) 01:45, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

These comments by Pol64 are instructive about the style of willy-nilly personal accusations the user has been making. 01:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• And this one
• Following up on 01:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

In light of those last to, I move for a block, strongly against wikipedias policies. SGGH 01:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Internet Policeman

Some time ago, I reported Pol64 for his accusations of pedophilia and criminal activity towards other editors. Rather bewilderingly, there was not any action taken against this editor. That said, his most recent behaviour (now targeted towards myself) is really concerning me, as he seems to be threatening to engage legal action against an innocent person, due to some suspicion of his. Pol64 has explicitly stated that he wants to police and investigate other Wikipedians.

The following diffs, I see as legal threats, based only on suspicion: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:GroomingVictim&diff=prev&oldid=187355983 http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:GroomingVictim&diff=prev&oldid=187361548

Then Pol64 accuses a far more experienced and subjectively unbiased editor of being a "Pedophile Advocate" (supposedly after he voted to keep a WP:PAW article): http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Pol64&diff=prev&oldid=187361041

Again, I STRESS, that we cannot be having this kind of behaviour on such a sensitive topic. I have already revealed personal details, and with another editor threatening to expose those who it seems he sees as pedophile advocates (in some vague, contrived, noncewatch fashion), someone could end up getting a brick through their window (and yes, as someone who has worked in child advocacy, I have come close to a personal experience of this). The best outcome from all of this, is that yet more nonhysterical editors get scared off editing PAW articles, leaving that section of the site under the control of a self-described "anti-pedophile activist" and those who he does not pursue with legal threats and insidious character baiting. GrooV (talk) 01:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

That second diff is an attack on me. Pol64 states above that he is an ex-police officer and again states that "pedophilia is against the law" it obviously is, but I believe this statement to be a direct threat against other users he seems to believe to be pedophiles. From my position in life, I know that using "I'm an ex-police officer" is almost always a threat. I agree with GrooV. SGGH 01:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

We ban pedophiles from self identifying, I dont think we should police officers from doing so but if you believe we should a policy page is where you need to be, not here. The idea that the average editor would have fear of the police is outrageous. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Squeak, I think he is referring to the "pedophilia is against the law" and the implied threat that since Pol64 is a police officerm he would try to point the finger at SGGH as such. There's no need to fear a police officer if you are innocent, but at the same time, to toss around blatant accusations is a deliberate violation of WP:AGF for one and a personal attack for two. Wildthing61476 (talk) 02:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Notice the attempts by Pol64 to invoke guilt by association, twice, by labelling Vigilance and me "good mates." In fact, the last time I communicated with VigilancePrime was on January 22 to indicate that I was disengaging from the "train wreck." Most of our prior back-and-forth has actually been about the BIG ORANGE BANNER on my talk page. Pairadox (talk) 01:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not going to defend everything Pol does here, no way, indeed I have counselled him enough to calm down and be civil (via email), my point is that we should not fear the police per se (and God knows I am haven't been the most legal person on this plant, cough, cough). I have written to him telling him it isn't a good idea to make what might be construed as legal threats. Thanks, SqueakBox 02:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't fear the police, you could say I have a healthy cultivated respect for them. I am not stating that we shouldn't reveal who police officers are (check my user page!) I am staying that using the fact that you are a police officer to strike fear into people whom you believe to be offenders when you have no real grounds to do so, is against policy. Pol has a number of prior warnings which I have noticed he deletes from his userpage about this. I apologise if my statement was confusing. SGGH 02:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

And personally, I can't believe any actual police officer would make statements like link 147 in the section immediately above. SGGH 02:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

In any case, I consider threats like the ones cited above, to be reason enough for a permanent ban of Pol64 from wikipedia, under our usual interpretation of such behavior here. I'll be glad to do the block, if there is support for it. DGG (talk) 02:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

SUPPORT - There is. I for one could do without the accusations, attacks, and threats. VigilancePrime (talk) 02:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Do we really need consensus? I think that he should receive indefinite on policy grounds. GrooV (talk) 02:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

It has just occured to me that Pol may mean police (fool I am) perhaps a deliberate troll? Regardless, such threats and the stuff of bans or at least a long block. Before it is instigated, I might just go and check how many warnings he has had for further grounds. Give me 5? SGGH 02:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

We have...

• 2 bot warnings
• sockpuppet block by User:WJBscribe, Squeakbox gives Pol advice on this, good advice too.
• a mediation case related to pedophilia topics
• 3RR block
• AN/I by GrooV
• A NPA warn from Vigilance
• Another from User:Seicer
• Another mediation call from User:Ryan Postlethwaite
• More NPA warns from Pairadox

Then after that I visit for the first time regarding blanking of a page being considered at MfD. That's a long trail so it seems to be a recurring problem. NPA warnings are the first port of call for someone reacting to this kind of "police officer investigating" things I would imagine? SGGH 02:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

SGGH, did you check the history or just the visible text? I suspect that if the history is examined more warnings, might show up, as this set of editors seems to be fond of warnings and blankings. Pairadox (talk) 02:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The history. Pol has removed content from her talk page on a couple of occasions, including past warnings. I have also just noticed this which seems... threatening... SGGH 02:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

STOP WITH THE LEGAL THREATS PELASE. Clear violation of WP:LEGAL. you coudl be blocked for this, so please stop it. Smith Jones (talk) 02:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we need concensus, I feel indef-blocking is the only option, I would do it myself but I am wincing at the sound of approaching neutrality accusations and an RFC that Pol seemed to be cooking up for me with Squeak, so I think someone else ought to do it if that's okay. DDG was somewhere a minutr ago. SGGH 02:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this a question of "who will block the "good guy""? GrooV (talk) 03:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

He needs to be blocked, shall I just get it done and worrying about Squeaks RFC another time? SGGH 03:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Wait for someone who is uninvolved, there is no rush at the moment. 03:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

As I thought. Thanks Avruch SGGH 03:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Who are you yelling at, Smith Jones? Corvus cornix_talk 02:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think he dislikes Pol64. GrooV (talk) 03:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I was about to indef block Pol yet User:Blnguyen blocked him for a week before my block went through. I think that block may need to be extended. Any thoughts?
Gonzo fan2007 03:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Stay tuned

For the exciting conclusion of WIKIPEDIA, the worlds most boring and painfully addictive drama. ] (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Chronic canvassing by VigilancePrime disrupts another deletion discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

VigilancePrime (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks confirmed)

• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:Albert Wincentz‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:HolokittyNX‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:Homologeo‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:Ospinad‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:Ssbohio‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:Pairadox‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:Tijuana Brass‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)
• 22:12, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) m User talk:TlatoSMD‎ (Opinion Valued: VP/D:SB) (top)

The above are all editors involved in a contentious series of content disputes with SqueakBox (the AfD, DRV and associated MfDs have been here a few times before).

This is from an editor who has been blocked for disruptive canvassing before, previously about an AfD and this time relating to a MfD about a userpage that is a storage of links and descriptions against User:SqueakBox (found here). Since the vote stacking has already had its effect, can an admin review this to decide whether the MfD should begin again or the page qualifies as a CSD attack page? Thanks 01:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice try. The original block was short-tempered and that admin has stated that he would have handled it differently. Nice try, though, attempting to create a history.

On this issue, read the notes. The messages were PAINFULLY neutral. Hence, not canvassing.

Please stop trying to blow up these things out of proportion. This is really a simple matter. VigilancePrime (talk) 01:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. GrooV (talk) 01:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

its likely that if the afd drv overtursns that we'll see another afd within hours as well. these people think they can do whatever to promote their POV with impunity, attacking others etc. I haven't seen even approaching such a disgrace in my 3 and a half years on the project01:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by SqueakBox (talk • contribs)

Without trying to bring the entire debate over here, if the DRV is ruled to be overturned, mostly likely the article will be brought back to AfD anyway. This has been a VERY heated and quite ugly debate on both sides, and whomever the admin is that makes the final decision on the AfD, I'd like to buy them a (cyber) drink for their effects no matter how the decision goes. Wildthing61476 (talk) 01:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The canvassing has been disgusting. That is why I am here. After vomiting (I am of a sensitive disposition) I decided it was time to act. Pol64 (talk) 01:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Muscovite99

There has been an ongoing content dispute over several articles involving Russia, Putin, the Russian Orthodox Church, etc., with this user and User:Biophys on one side and User:Frjohnwhiteford on the other. For the most part, this is of no interest to ANI. However, the narrow issue of uncivil personal attacks by Muscovite99 against Frjohnwhiteford may need to be addressed. The relevant info is summarised in this RfC/U, on which I have made the only uninvolved comment. Note that, of the five diffs listed under "Evidence of disputed behavior", the final two took place after I made my comment at the RfC/U. It thus seems that Muscovite99 is aware of what he's doing and has no intention of changing his behavior, and a short block (which I have no authority to enact) might be appropriate. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 01:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

User repeatedly blanking his talk page.

I do not know how to correctly fix this. As you can see, this user has repeatedly removed legitimate content from his talk page, mostly warnings about his uploaded images, but apparently no one has noticed before now. The most powerful anti-vandal tool I have available is rollback, which is of no use in this case. Is there any admin tool that can remove all edits to a page by a particular user? Also, this guy may need to be blocked, but I am not experienced enough to know if his offenses warrent blocking. If you wish to make a comment directed at me, please leave it on my talk page, as I will probably not be back here soon. (I'm not even positive this is the right place to report this, if it's not, please lemmeknow.)
Thanks for your help.
J.delanoy_adds 02:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

This is fine in terms or reporting it here. I can understand the user removing "image orphan" tags, because they can become an annoying clutter, though he could just archive them. Incidentally I have just had to clear off some IP vandalism from his page. Have you attempted to contact the user and ascertain why he is blanking his page? Perhaps he is not aware of guidelines, or the archiving system? SGGH 03:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

"Guidelines" indicate that there is no problem with an editor blanking their own talk page - Policy does not prohibit users from removing comments from their own talk pages, although archiving is preferred. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user. Deleted warnings can still be found in the page history. Pairadox (talk) 03:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)