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Race and intelligence

This is the most well researched and referenced article I've found and seveal experts in the field are active contributors. It is quite neutral and fact-based despite the controversiality of the subject matter, and its strict focus on concrete reporting of the facts despite the "taboo" associated with it embodies what Misplaced Pages is all about. If ever an article deserved to be featured, it's this one. --Malathion 19:37, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

• Archived peer review
• For the interested commentator, consensus scientific statments and surveys on which this article is based: --Rikurzhen 00:09, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns" a report from the American Psychological Association -- later published as Neisser et al (1996)
  • "Mainstream Science on Intelligence" -- later published as Gottfredson (1997) -- a statement signed by 52 intelligence researchers meant to outline "conclusions regarded as mainstream among researchers on intelligence".
  • Snyderman, M., & Rothman, S. (1987). "Survey of expert opinion on intelligence and aptitude testing". American Psychologist, 42, 137–144. (some details in this section)
• Right now, this article may not satisfy the stable criteria because it has recently undergone a transition to Misplaced Pages:Summary style for the sake of meeting size limits. That said, the prospect is that future edits will be minor, so I support. --Rikurzhen 20:07, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. While the topic of this article is controversial, the article itself is not controversial in the Misplaced Pages sense of the word. Despite the disparate personal views of the editors, no NPOV or accuracy dispute exists. Trust that the WP process has taken care of these things. Trust but verify ;) (see above). --Rikurzhen 00:50, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
• Object. Non-stable because controversial. That the topic is controversial is not a problem, but the article itself has too much ongoing controversy. Jun-Dai 20:11, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • There is quite a lot of debate on the talk page, but looking at the edit history, almost all of the edits are from a few editors following the consensus and progressively improving the article. The one revert war that I can find (with User:Zen Master) seems to have been resolved. --Malathion 20:19, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • It's my observation that controversy has not actually been a stability issue for this article in the past. Current controversies on the talk page involve fine details (e.g. where the phrase culture-only or environment-only is preferable, or whether a graphic is an appropriate detail for a summary section). The major change to content/structure in the last several months has been the shift to summary style: concern about stability should focus there. --Rikurzhen 20:20, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Still objecting. You can see on the talk page that controversy exists over the article in it present state. That is even more apparent in this thread. Also, a few points that have been percolating in my brain: The article makes vague reference to objections to the notion of race as a valid biological category of humans and to the validity of intelligence quotients, but it gives no serious space to the objections, even though they, as far as I have known, are pretty significant . Most of the article takes for granted that these are valid, even though they are very much in question. The agenda isn't quite as clear and the bias quite as strong as it is in some similar articles (see Intelligence quotient), but this article as it stands is problematic, to say the least. In fact, it's probably the most extreme case I've seen nominated here, though I confess I haven't been around for long. Jun-Dai 23:52, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
    • You'll want to famaliarize yourself with the consensus scientfic statements I pasted above and the extensive reference list of primary and secondary sources for this article before taking to tertiary web sources. What you're pointing out is a failing of the public media, not this article. The existence of objectors is covered extensively before data and interpretations are discussed. Examine the article and sub-articles for more details. --Rikurzhen 00:06, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
      • <Jun-Dai 01:36, 12 July 2005 (UTC)> The content of the sub-articles does not provide a basis for this article being featured. The fact that objections are somewhat better covered in the sub-articles doesn't make up for the heavy slant of the main article. </Jun-Dai>
        • Claims that this article is non-neutral or factually incorrect should warrant an NPOV tag and a serious discussion on the talk page. Such claims would have to address the content of the three major references I posted above. But with countless editors over the past years, this article has not degraded to an edit war of POVs, but rather has instead made excellent progress towards all of the criteria of FAs. If you still insist on your point, please give some criticisms with citations instead of merely implying that the many editors of this article are all mistaken.

--Rikurzhen 01:48, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

• • • • • • <Jun-Dai 02:04, 14 July 2005 (UTC)> I'd agree that the article warrants an NPOV tag, but that's a larger fight than I'm willing (or have the time) to take on right now. Meanwhile, leaving aside issues of bias and characterizations of consensus for the moment (I still object on those terms), I do have one comment: The paragraph on racial distinctions consists of a bunch of disoorganized, mostly extraneous information. The sentences "The national and state governments of the United States employ race in the census, law enforcement, and innumerable other ways. Many minority races have political organizations to represent their interests. Racial discrimination is illegal in many areas of public and private life, including employment" are not directly related to the article, and seem much more like they are trying to pose an argument (in defense of racial distinctions or the validity thereof). The paragraph, within the context of this article, shouldn't really contain any information other than to explain what "racial distinctions" are, which is something it barely touches on, even though it is so central to the background of the topic. If these sentences are important in explaining the history of racial distinctions with regard to the study of race and "intelligence", then, then there should be some explanation as to why they are important, as it is not at all clear in the paragraph itself. What's more, how does one "employ race" in the census, etc.?
            • That section has been bouncing around for a while. It is intended to bring non-Americans up to speed on the race consciousness that exists in U.S. society. This was specifically requested. Your suggestions for improvement are of course appreciated. Feel free to chip in if you have specific ideas. --Rikurzhen 02:37, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
• Object. The fact that the article requires a self-referential paragraph in the lead section to defend itself shows that it's not ready, and not likely to be so anytime soon. --Michael Snow 20:25, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I assume you mean this: This article conforms with the mainstream opinion among researchers on intelligence, and conclusions presented here are fully described in the major textbooks, professional journals and encyclopedias in intelligence. That was added because many people will find the results presented in the article surprising as the public press has not reported on them, and it was desirable to prepare them for the suprise. That's a feature of the topic, not the article's quality. If there's a problem with this article, that's not it. --Rikurzhen 20:32, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
    • Be that as it may, self-referential writing is terrible and should be avoided at all costs - I cringe whenever I see it. . Perhaps some rephrasing is in order. →Raul654 20:37, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
      • Agreed. Are there any tricks for avoiding that kind of langauge? --Rikurzhen 20:40, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
        • I'd suggest just deleting it outright. It's not clear what useful purpose is being served with that "warning" anyway. --Malathion 21:01, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
• Still object, and as I investigate further I get increasingly suspicious that this and related articles suffer from a serious lack of balance in their presentation. In reading the article, one gets the distinct impression that there is a connection between race and intelligence. This is naturally a very controversial position to take, so the article does not say so bluntly, but casts the overall picture as reflecting "mainstream opinion" in the field. The (now-removed) paragraph I noted served to reinforce this impression further.

Malathion asserts that "seveal experts in the field" are working on this article. Now, perhaps someone with serious expertise could really confirm that this article describes the "mainstream opinion" among those who study this phenomenon. But in looking around, I have found only Rikurzhen making any claim that resembles expertise in this field, in this case "a graduate student in the field of genetics." Reasonably related to the topic, yes, so I'll assume Rikurzhen has more-than-usual familiarity with the subject matter, but not such a high level of expertise that we should show excessive deference.

This is not my field of expertise either, so it is difficult to address issues point-by-point or identify precisely what elements make the article unbalanced overall. However, the article feels like it is pushing an agenda, and while it may be subtle this only makes it more insidious. Having a paragraph like the one cited is a red flag, and makes me think the content needs to be carefully scrutinized.

I will explain a little of how the article achieves such an unbalanced effect, even while making gestures toward neutrality and without blatantly advocating the position it works to promote. From what I can tell, the issue of race and intelligence is part of a larger debate over the heritability of intelligence generally. The content here appears to lean heavily to the theories of Arthur Jensen and J. Philippe Rushton, supporters of the idea that intelligence is heritable. For a critical view, the article relies heavily on Stephen Jay Gould, an exponent of popular science who is not particularly a specialist in this area. It does not acknowledge researchers and experts in the field who dispute Jensen and Rushton's theories; examining the nature of publications in the footnotes confirms this. Perhaps the editors involved are not familiar with the material needed because they have not engaged the scholarship on the other side, I don't know their reasons for the path they have ended up on. But the effect is clearly to balance the "serious science" in support of a connection between race and intelligence, against the "popular science" that denies this connection, and it is easy to guess how the reader is expected to resolve the issue, based on the relative credibility of those cast as the proponents for either side of the debate.

Quickly looking for information on the internet other than Misplaced Pages, I found a short biography of Jensen (described as a "major proponent of the hereditarian position") listed on an Indiana University website about Human Intelligence. Here, Jensen is effectively contrasted with a contemporary named Leon Kamin (an "active critic of the hereditarian theory of intelligence"). Interestingly, Jensen and Rushton have fairly substantial Misplaced Pages articles about them, with significant contributions from some of the same editors working on this article. Kamin, on the other hand, has no article at the present time. This may not be malicious, but clearly an article about Kamin is needed at some point, and I also consider it likely that this article needs to incorporate his views. Anyway, such observations strongly suggest to me that Misplaced Pages's coverage of articles in this field overall suffers from serious systemic bias.

Basically, this is an article about scientific theories that has gone astray and tried to become an article about scientific facts. Report the facts about the competing theories; do not report the theories as if they were fact. A major overhaul is needed here, and I think it would be a serious embarrassment to Misplaced Pages to call this a featured article in its present state. --Michael Snow 23:23, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

There is no such thing as a scientific fact. There are only theories and the increasing confidence in those theories as they survive experiment and test. I suspect you're uncomfortable with the article because you feel a conflict between your prejudices and the theories the article seems to support. But that's exactly why the article is a good one. --mc6809e

It's not my field either, so I can't comment concretely, but I'd like to know whether the position that intelligence and race are connected is actually controverial among those more "in the know". It's certainly controversial in popular culture, but if the research points us in a different direction, I don't think Misplaced Pages should shy away from contradicting popular opinion. It may very well be the case that the "serious science" is being accurately reprenented here. Btw, sorry about any typos; I recently switched to the Dvorak keyboard layout. --Malathion 23:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe there are any experts in the field of intelligence working on this article, but most of the contributors are PhD scientists/students. If you'd like to famaliarize yourself with the science on which this article is based, at least three top-prority references exist (see above). More recent literature reviews are also available. --Rikurzhen 23:52, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Michael, I don't think that is a valid objection. You cannot a priori label an article as NPOV because it presents a scientific consensus (for example, the heritability of intelligence, or the correlation between race and measured intelligence). For example, google finds you lots of critics of the points laid out on Evolution, but that doesn't make Evolution POV. Granted, there could be other reasons for Evolution or Race and intelligence being NPOV. But the fact that viewpoints outside the scientific consensus come off as less reliable is not one of those. That being said, I would love it if we were able to replace the viewpoints attributed to Gould and others with more satisfying arguments. Suggestions are welcome (don't think we haven't looked). Arbor 09:08, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

• Conditional support. The online references need to be properly formatted according to MoS guidelines. A simple hyperlinked title is not sufficient: if the article is printed, or the linked source document is moved or erased, the reference becomes useless. Other than that, this is a great article about an interesting subject. Phils 21:16, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't quite understand. You're suggesting the references should be moved from their sub-page to the main page? --Rikurzhen 21:20, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
    • No... I think you're talking about the footnotes. It does look like the footnotes section could use some cleaning up. --Rikurzhen 21:58, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
    • I have been fighting with the footnotes and references for that article for quite some time. I agree that currently they are below par, but it's a huge task, and not much precendent on WP on how this should be handled. I tried to solicit some guidance for this very article at Misplaced Pages:Footnote3 (which is the style we are trying adopt). But rest assured that everything will be in order real soon now. (The FAC caught us somewhat off-guard, a major refactoring is in progress due to the transition to Misplaced Pages:Summary style. Excuse the mess.) Arbor 08:53, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
• Support. The article presents a unique challenge: consensus statements of expert opinion contradict widely (and in many cases stubbornly) held beliefs. As a case in point, that IQ is substantially heritable is beyond significant technical dispute among experts (both consensus statements reflect this ), but outside the field, heritability is very much in dispute (see above comments regarding the general heritability of intelligence ). Given these disparate perspectives, the article's point of view on the issue of heritability is, to my mind, a model of NPOV (see this section and the related sub-article). As an editor who was drawn to the subject because of the expert/layperson belief dichotomy, I take pride in the WP community's unique response, which has been, in short, to assemble an article with unusually high verifiability. --DAD 03:00, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
• Object, the summary section bothers me, it brings up a number of things not coverd in the article and I can't think of any featured artlcies where there is a summary at the end, it is not encyclodedia style. In paricular the final statement about genetic engineering needs to go, since the genetic determinants of intellegence are unknown this is highly unlikey and it is not the purpose of an encyclopedia article to speculate about the future. The other parts of the summary should be moved to their respecitive sections.--nixie 03:53, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Interesting. The summary was a remnant from the time when this article was >150k. As with the suggestion above, I've commented it out for the moment. --Rikurzhen 04:36, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
    • The article also used both inline cites, like Ralpf (1996), and footnotes. The inlines should probably be changed to footnotes for internal consistency.--nixie 06:48, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
      • There's an editor who's particular keen on fixing up the references. The footnotes are new, so we're still half-way finished. --Rikurzhen 06:56, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
        • I'll vote in a few days, when the editing activity has decreased somewhat :) --nixie 08:54, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm one of the editors and I never like the summary either. I say kick it out with all speed. Arbor 08:55, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Agree. For all the reasons nixie listed, and very poor writing to boot, the Summary should be removed. The statement about iodine is novel; the first part of the Summary reads like everyone trying to have the last word, which is ridiculous -- the article should speak for itself. --DAD 17:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Easy ... Done. --Rikurzhen 17:30, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
    • I strongly object to large scale deletion of long standing material. At the very least, much of the material should be moved to other sections as suggested. Ultramarine 17:51, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
• Object. Extremely unstable right now. Ultramarine 19:21, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Instability is largely due to cleanup either recommended by, or inspired by, the present FAC. --DAD 19:23, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
• Object Totally concur with Michael Snow. Also very biased in favor of the hypothesis that there is a relationship. 172 18:34, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment The evolution and global warming articles are also very biased in favor of the scientific consensus ... unless we decide to fabricate data and include our own opinions, that's not something we get to change; see the consensus statements linked above. --Rikurzhen 18:50, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. the hypothesis that there is a relationship is scientific consensus (see the helpful material linked on the top of this page for support for that statement). I don't understand the sentiment underlying your comment, unless it's a knee-jerk reaction (for which I have strong sympathies)—in that case I urge you to read up on the material and reconsider your objection. Arbor 19:33, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
    • <Jun-Dai 02:04, 14 July 2005 (UTC)> That may be true, to a limited extent--but the very concept of race as a biological categorization of humans, or that intelligence can be measured in any particularly meaningful manner is not consensus, and while this is made clear in a few of the external links, it is by no means clear in the text of the article, which seems to imply some sort of consensus on these matters. </Jun-Dai>
      • The article does not imply consensus, it reports it. As editors, that's all we can do. Because the scientific consensus statements listed above directly contradict your statements, I'm guessing you're referring to the popular consensus. Just as Evolution and Global warming do not dwell on the popular consensus, the present article does not. --DAD 02:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
      • While there is a great deal of public discussion of whether race is a vaid biological category, social and medical scientists still go around using race in their research; thus our hands are tied. We must report on what the IQ research says, without introducing personal bias. Although we do report examples of these kinds of critcisms (including Sternberg et al, 2005), we can't act on that POV by not report on anything else. Stepping out of the WP NPOV/NOR shell for a second: the theoretical considerations of some population biologists wrt race do not seem to have penetrated into other fields, where concepts of race as still grounded in "common sense" and "self-reported race". --Rikurzhen 02:34, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
• Absurdly strong support, if I (as a fledgling editor of the article in question) am allowed to comment. I "found" this page at the time of its VdD six weeks ago (or so), and have since tried to help. This is potentially the best Misplaced Pages article I have ever seen, and a shining example of (1) our "secret sauce": NPOV, and (2) the fact that collaborative editing can produce amazingly informative, correct, well-written, and relevant material ('Wiki works", and not only about Pokémon), and (2a) even if the material is controversial. I would also like it to be a shining example of (3) references and verifiability, by pet peeve about WP. It already far outclasses most other WP articles in that respect, but there is some cleanup left to do. After the article went to Peer Review, we started a major reorganisation based on Misplaced Pages: Summary style which has kept us entertained during the past few weeks, so the current article is in a state of flux. I would suggest we wait until it stabilises again. Arbor 19:33, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
• Object POV pushing propaganda which states what is not true: that there is a scientific consensus supporting the concept. The "research" presented is largely junk science, and vociferous objections from the scientific community are not cited. Stirling Newberry 23:17, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. "The concept" has no clear antecedent. Any meaningful response and/or edit requires knowing what you mean. Kindly explain. Also, vociferous objections are cited in multiple places, from accusations of racism and biased results (including comparison of one scientist's goals to Hitler's) to more moderated objections that neither race nor intelligence have any scientific basis and that any attempt to study them is not science and/or is ethically wrong. All appear to be carefully cited. Kindly elaborate on what objections are not covered. --DAD 00:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Race and intelligence is an area of intelligence research studying the nature, origins, and practical consequences of group differences in intelligence. Members of any racial-ethnic group may be found at any IQ level, but averages among groups often differ in where their members tend to cluster along the IQ scale. Similar clustering is seen amoung racial-ethnic groups in related variables, such as school achievement or reaction time. In the U.S., most variation in IQ occurs within individual familes, not between races. However, differences of average IQs among groups has been pronounced enough to merit a scientific investigation.

This is the intro-paragraph, and it is a mendacious misstatement of current knowledge, POV propaganda and crypto-racism. Stirling Newberry 01:25, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Ad hominems aside, do you think the differences of average IQs among groups has not been pronounced enough to merit a scientific investigation? – Quadell 02:07, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

• • I'm sure we are all well-aware of the first paragraph. I note your (SN's) post does not answer either of my questions, which were asked with the genuine hope of engaging your concerns. The accusations you level are quite serious (and surprising) since the first paragraph reflects several published consensus statements, as has been repeatedly noted on this page. I'm sure other observers would find it helpful to know what base of support you are drawing upon. Best, --DAD 02:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Quadell: The scientific investigation has been going on for decades. Perhaps a better question is, "What published statements -- preferably indicating broad consensus -- contradict anything in the first paragraph?" --DAD 02:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

This is POV pushing on its face. is an example of the kind of debunking that Rushton et al regularly get. The article is crypto-racist right wing pseudo-science. Stirling Newberry 02:28, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

as far as I can tell, Richard Nisbett, the author you cite, would agree with the intro paragraph and would endorse the article, if not all the POVs therein. --Rikurzhen 02:30, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

That very Nisbett article is listed right on the Race and intelligence page, and nothing in Nisbett's article contradicts anything in the first paragraph. Nisbett is concerned with whether the gap is closing, and his viewpoint is prominently featured Race_and_intelligence_(Average_intelligence_gaps_among_races)#Is_the_gap_closing in the article. He also is concerned with evidence for heredity, and the malleability of IQ, points of view which receive extensive treatment and which the article favors no particular position. Nisbett's accusations against Rushton and Jensen are quite mild compared to the vitriol that the R&I article aims at them. You have just provided outstanding evidence of the article's NPOV. --DAD 02:44, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

• Support. This article seems to have several objections based on the fact that it's a controversial topic, but I think controversial topics should be able to be featured articles. It gives a lot of interesting information, it's well-organized and well-illustrated, it's meticulously referenced, and it describes all veiwpoints about as fully as could be expected. There is of course room for improvement - but I wish every article on Misplaced Pages were as NPOV as this one! The authors have had to work extremely hard making the article NPOV, since it's such a sensitive topic, and the effort has paid off. There will be some people who will object to any article that contains information they don't like, and that's disappointing, but I don't see how any article could explain the current state of knowledge and debate much more fairly. – Quadell 02:07, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

• Object. There is no scientific nor even pseudo-scientific consensus to describe the issue only in terms of "race" and "intelligence". The supporters of the article would love to get the controversy bogged down analyzing their sources using their one sided method of framing the issue, they completely ignore all criticisms against how the issue is framed and the historic evidence against subject (see scientific racism). I theorize that the supporters of race and intelligence must be ultra racist or insanely politically motived themselves because nothing else comes close to explaining their support for the unscientific one sided presentation of the subject which subtly presumptively induces racism in others -- not to mention the repeated obfuscation, repetition of language confusion, and misdirection on talk pages. If the issue is described and framed only in terms of "race" and "intelligence" the brain will only think about the issue in terms of "race" in search of causes which will make it easier for the supporters of the article (aka the psychology of language propaganda experts) to later on intentionally confuse description of the issue with cause for the issue. zen master T 03:40, 15 July 2005 (UTC)